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Model X will have falcon wing doors says Musk

Tesla CEO Elon Musk was on hand recently at a Q&A session in Norway and he offered up some information on current and future Tesla vehicles.
 
One of the vehicles that Musk talked about was the upcoming Model X. Musk explained that the Model X will have the same wheelbase as the Model S, and that its length will be within 2” of the sedan. The Model X, however, will be quite a bit taller given that it’s a crossover (and to provide additional headroom for the third-row passengers).
 
Since the Model X will be heavier than the Model S, Tesla figures that the X will have about 10% higher energy consumption.


Tesla Model X Concept
 
Musk also stated that the production Model X would definitely retain the "Falcon Doors" for rear seat occupants. The rear doors are hinged in the roof instead B-pillar, which should allow for easier entry/exit in tight parking spaces. All-wheel-drive will be standard on the Model X with a separate electric motor driving the front wheels.
 
Speaking of AWD, the Model S will receive AWD as an option once the Model X goes into production. Tesla promises that AWD versions of the car will have the same driving range as the current RWD version; something that rarely (if ever) occurs with gasoline- or diesel-powered vehicles.


Tesla Model S
 
“Typical experience of AWD is that the efficiency will be worse. We've worked really hard to not have that same effect,” explained Tesla CTO JB Straubel. “We found some clever ways with dual motor AWD, not just mechanical linkage. To make that an efficiency neutral option breakthrough. Flat efficiency tradeoff.”
 
Software updates coming to the Model S will add a hill-hold function and allow manual selecting of ride height over a wider range of speeds.  Feature updates coming down the road will include guidance lines on the backup camera, adaptive cruise control, and Musk also promised that Model S cars coming off the line in the near future would have more comfortable front seats. The new seat can be retrofitted into existing cars.

Source: Tesla Motors Club



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Blech
By coburn_c on 2/11/2014 3:45:08 PM , Rating: -1
Crossovers are stupid cars and that thing is really ugly. Also why is it AWD? Who's gonna go off-roading in a battery powered car? Stuck out in the middle of nowhere with a dead battery...




RE: Blech
By Reclaimer77 on 2/11/14, Rating: -1
RE: Blech
By kwrzesien on 2/11/2014 4:15:06 PM , Rating: 2
Come on, this isn't competing with a Jeep! This is for the metropolitan upscale families that are considering an X5, Cayenne, ML500, GL550, MDX or a Cadillac SUV. As those vehicles range from $50,000 - $90,000 and up and are mostly used less than 100 miles a day and are semi-prestige vehicles, the Model X will be the hottest item on the block.


RE: Blech
By Reclaimer77 on 2/11/14, Rating: 0
RE: Blech
By Spuke on 2/11/2014 5:15:27 PM , Rating: 2
To be honest Rec, they have to put AWD in there to compete with the other Xovers and SUV's in that price range even if none of their customers ever use it.


RE: Blech
By SeeManRun on 2/11/2014 4:26:07 PM , Rating: 3
People like AWD for ice and wet slippery conditions. I don't believe crossovers are for off road anyway, that is what the SUV was for and we know how often people took those off road.


RE: Blech
By Reclaimer77 on 2/11/14, Rating: -1
RE: Blech
By grant3 on 2/11/2014 5:44:53 PM , Rating: 2
o_o wow. not sure if you're sarcastic or honestly hypocritical here.

Since AWD is mostly a marketing gimmick, it's pretty obvious that the "reason" for including it on teslas, subarus, or any other model is to help sell high-margin vehicles. And from a business perspective, that's a very legitimate reason.


RE: Blech
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 4:47:37 PM , Rating: 3
I'd say the inverse, there's pretty much zero reason NOT to do an AWD EV.

The benefits of Model S/X AWD:

1. Electric AWD allows for the world's best traction control, which means safety in poor road conditions. Tons of Model S in Norway and elsewhere would appreciate AWD.

2. Unlike with an ICE car, there is almost no efficiency reduction (JB Straubel has said there is actually none, but we'll see).

3. Better acceleration, needless to say. Can't wait to see the acceleration time for the Model S AWD.

4. Possibly higher top speed. The current Model S uses a single gear which puts the top speed at 130mph at around 14,000rpm. The front motor could be geared differently, allowing for higher speeds at lower RPM on the Autobahn.

5. The cost increase over a RWD model will be tiny (6-10%?), so definitely worth it.

6. Adds to the growing list of superlatives, more PR and word-of-mouth marketing, this in and of itself makes AWD worth it.


RE: Blech
By Reclaimer77 on 2/11/2014 4:57:12 PM , Rating: 2
Current Tesla's do not function properly in extreme cold. So the idea of an AWD electric vehicle on current technology for winter weather is a wash. Tons of Model S's in Norway, what!?

quote:
2. Unlike with an ICE car, there is almost no efficiency reduction (JB Straubel has said there is actually none, but we'll see).


Physics wise, that's not possible. Electric motors are efficient, but not 100% efficient. Powering all the wheels takes more energy than just two, can't get around that.

You've also added, wait for it, more weight to the vehicle. More weight, less efficient.

quote:
5. The cost increase over a RWD model will be tiny (6-10%?), so definitely worth it.


Explain please? How is using twice the number of motors and associated hardware a "tiny" expense?


RE: Blech
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 5:50:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Current Tesla's do not function properly in extreme cold. So the idea of an AWD electric vehicle on current technology for winter weather is a wash. Tons of Model S's in Norway, what!?


We're clearly looking at different information. http://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland/videos No trouble here with 1000+ mile trips, or leaving the car parked outside for a month. They are popular in Norway due to tax breaks, which I know you're fond of.

quote:
Physics wise, that's not possible. Electric motors are efficient, but not 100% efficient. Powering all the wheels takes more energy than just two, can't get around that.


Two motors spinning at a low power output may be more efficient than one motor spinning at high power, especially when accelerating. The front motor may be geared differently which changes efficiency numbers again.

quote:
You've also added, wait for it, more weight to the vehicle. More weight, less efficient.


It's important to distinguish between mechanical efficiency and added weight. Regardless, I don't feel like looking up the number right now but I believe the motor weighs <100lbs which means a <2% weight increase, which translates into a negligible power increase.

quote:
Explain please? How is using twice the number of motors and associated hardware a "tiny" expense?


Because the motor is cheap. Have you seen one? It's a ball of wires about the size of a watermelon.


RE: Blech
By coburn_c on 2/11/2014 6:03:47 PM , Rating: 2
OH boy, a youtube channel with fan videos of Elon Musky against major car reviewers...

and 500ft-lb AC motors are NOT cheap


RE: Blech
By Reclaimer77 on 2/11/2014 10:20:05 PM , Rating: 2
He talks like you just drive down to the local RC Hobby shop to grab a Tesla Model S electric motor for a few bucks lol.


RE: Blech
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 10:50:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Elon has mentioned it will be more expensive in the "low single digits" as in, about $5k more than the Model S.


quote:
The cost increase over a RWD model will be tiny (6-10%?)


Refer to my previous comments made in this thread, which both of you probably already read, and yet you still feel the need to post these troll comments.. You guys are anti-EV weirdos that don't argue in good faith.


RE: Blech
By Reclaimer77 on 2/12/2014 11:27:06 AM , Rating: 2
OK Mr. $200 monthly fuel costs...


RE: Blech
By ScotterQX6700 on 2/11/2014 6:18:17 PM , Rating: 2
All wheel drive benefits are not limited to off-road. It gives greater traction and stability in many situations, including rain and snow. Remember, Tesla's are being sold around the world, including Countries like Norway.


RE: Blech
By robertgu on 2/11/2014 9:32:37 PM , Rating: 2
If you live in the snow belt you would be taking a totally different line of thinking in terms of AWD Cross-over.


RE: Blech
By amanojaku on 2/11/2014 4:26:28 PM , Rating: 3
Crossovers are for people who need to carry extra passengers or cargo, but don't want or need the towing capacity and off-road capabilities of a truck. They're the modern-day station wagon, only better looking. A crossover makes more sense than the traditional SUV due to improved fuel economy; they're based on car platforms, whereas SUVs are based on trucks.

AWD is generally misunderstood. It's not just useful for off-roading. It has utility in all low-traction situations. In theory, a properly designed AWD car can transfer engine torque and HP to any wheel in any amount. If the rear wheels are stuck in ice, snow, or mud, the front wheels could have 100% of the torque and HP. If the car is accelerating, the rear wheels could have 100% of the torque and HP. If the car is turning, the outside wheels would have, say, 65% of the engine torque and HP (outside wheels must spin faster than inside wheels for best cornering performance).

Personally, an EV should not be AWD, it should be IWD, where each wheel has its own motor. No central drive shaft means less weight and frictional losses from a drive train, etc...


RE: Blech
By coburn_c on 2/11/2014 4:35:15 PM , Rating: 1
Station wagons look way better than crossovers. Look at the CTS wagon next to the SRX.

Torque vectoring in a crossover? Are you kidding me? If you want a car to corner well you wouldn't make a crossover.

And don't even get me started on a Tesla in the snow..

http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-ter...

As for four motors.. the last thing you need in an EV or a crossover is more weight.


RE: Blech
By coburn_c on 2/11/2014 4:41:35 PM , Rating: 2
Another thing I don't understand, why do Teslas have an engine compartment and hood? I mean these is no engine in there, the batteries are under the seat... it's like they want you to think it's an actual car and not a fast golf cart.


RE: Blech
By Spuke on 2/11/2014 5:17:16 PM , Rating: 2
There's storage space in the front. Why waste it?


RE: Blech
By coburn_c on 2/11/2014 5:33:30 PM , Rating: 1
Well if you're building a vehicle to haul more people, why not use all the available space. Wouldn't there be more space if you pushed the cabin forward?


RE: Blech
By SeeManRun on 2/11/2014 6:00:35 PM , Rating: 2
In the event of a crash you need a crumple zone.


RE: Blech
By coburn_c on 2/11/2014 6:05:10 PM , Rating: 1
So why isn't there a hood and compartment on the sides and in the back?


RE: Blech
By Spuke on 2/11/2014 6:29:10 PM , Rating: 2
Now you're being stupid.


RE: Blech
By amanojaku on 2/11/2014 5:30:06 PM , Rating: 2
Both vehicles are ugly to me, but the SRX is WAY better looking than the CTS Wagon. I'm not the only one who thinks so, since the SRX has been Cadillac's best selling car every years starting in 2010.

All cars benefit from torque vectoring. The high weight and center of gravity means a crossover is in greater need of traction at the wheels than a smaller car. People don't buy a car to inspect its traction (they should, but few people understand it, including you); they buy a car for what it can hold, its looks, its upfront cost and it's cost of ownership (fuel economy, maintenance, etc...)

That Tesla article you provided didn't say anything about the car's performance in snow. It said the car doesn't brake or charge the same due to the cold. In other words, it takes longer to charge, and the car brakes like a regular car without regenerative breaking. Not exactly a crisis, even if it's undesirable.

The four motors... They're smaller than a single, large motor. And there's no drive train (if using wheel hub engines) or a short drive train (if using inboard engines), so the weight would actually be LESS.

The front hood is a trunk, and the car is far more resilient than a golf cart.


RE: Blech
By coburn_c on 2/11/2014 5:37:59 PM , Rating: 2
Ah well I guess it's just a matter of opinion.

My opinion is that the SRX is absolutely disgusting. My opinion is that four motors would weigh a lot more than a driveshaft or just a rear motor. My opinion is that an EV becomes twice as annoying in freezing weather... well that one is actually a fact..


RE: Blech
By Spuke on 2/11/2014 6:30:02 PM , Rating: 2
Uh, the CTS Wagon is badass! The new SRX is not even close. I liked the old SRX though.


RE: Blech
By CharonPDX on 2/11/2014 10:00:00 PM , Rating: 2
We had snow/ice here over the weekend. About 6 inches of snow, with about half an inch of ice on top. We have one AWD vehicle and one 2WD vehicle.

Our driveway is uphill. Gravel. About 50 feet long, 10 feet incline to the street. (Plus a flat stretch right next to the house.)

The AWD climbed right out. Getting up from its dry spot up on to the snow/ice was the hardest part, and didn't even do any sliding there. That was when the accumulation had stopped, but it was still cold. The roads were still nasty, "slushy" at best on main drags, but still driving on top of snow/ice on the side streets.

The 2WD, on the other hand... Yeah, didn't even TRY to drive it until the snow/ice had started melting. Waited until the main roads were clear, and the side streets "slush with bare pavement visible in the ruts". I definitely missed the AWD when trying to get my car out of the driveway this morning. One wheel was slipping, so traction control stopped the drive axle completely. I had to get BOTH tires on that axle on solid footing to get it to move. (Of course, the non-drive-axle's tires were on perfectly fine ground...)


RE: Blech
By Rukkian on 2/12/2014 10:47:31 AM , Rating: 2
In the snow belt (Iowa doesn't get as much as say MN, but they have no idea how to plow around here), a good AWD can make the difference between sliding all over, and actually going where you want to go. CUV's are not really meant for offroading, but light trail driving can be done in some (my Forester has seen some crappy, muddy roads going to some boy scout campouts).
The AWD for the Model S, and X will not be made for offroading at all, it will make commuting in snowy regions much safer, easier (if done right).


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