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Model X will have falcon wing doors says Musk

Tesla CEO Elon Musk was on hand recently at a Q&A session in Norway and he offered up some information on current and future Tesla vehicles.
 
One of the vehicles that Musk talked about was the upcoming Model X. Musk explained that the Model X will have the same wheelbase as the Model S, and that its length will be within 2” of the sedan. The Model X, however, will be quite a bit taller given that it’s a crossover (and to provide additional headroom for the third-row passengers).
 
Since the Model X will be heavier than the Model S, Tesla figures that the X will have about 10% higher energy consumption.


Tesla Model X Concept
 
Musk also stated that the production Model X would definitely retain the "Falcon Doors" for rear seat occupants. The rear doors are hinged in the roof instead B-pillar, which should allow for easier entry/exit in tight parking spaces. All-wheel-drive will be standard on the Model X with a separate electric motor driving the front wheels.
 
Speaking of AWD, the Model S will receive AWD as an option once the Model X goes into production. Tesla promises that AWD versions of the car will have the same driving range as the current RWD version; something that rarely (if ever) occurs with gasoline- or diesel-powered vehicles.


Tesla Model S
 
“Typical experience of AWD is that the efficiency will be worse. We've worked really hard to not have that same effect,” explained Tesla CTO JB Straubel. “We found some clever ways with dual motor AWD, not just mechanical linkage. To make that an efficiency neutral option breakthrough. Flat efficiency tradeoff.”
 
Software updates coming to the Model S will add a hill-hold function and allow manual selecting of ride height over a wider range of speeds.  Feature updates coming down the road will include guidance lines on the backup camera, adaptive cruise control, and Musk also promised that Model S cars coming off the line in the near future would have more comfortable front seats. The new seat can be retrofitted into existing cars.

Source: Tesla Motors Club



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RE: One thing...
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 2:12:05 PM , Rating: 2
As you well know, the Model E released in 2017 or 2018 will be about $35,000.

The magic price point for EVs is around $500/month. Fuel cost is negligible. Once you can lease a Tesla for that price, every single sedan from the Toyota Camry and above is irrelevant.


RE: One thing...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/11/14, Rating: 0
RE: One thing...
By quiksilvr on 2/11/2014 2:56:00 PM , Rating: 2
I see it happening. In 4 years they went from a $100,000+ Roadster to a $70,000 Model S. Hell, they could come out with a much more compact 4 door car with a way less beefier engine and smaller battery and sell it for $50,000 if they wanted to now. So in 4 years with battery tech improving and less R&D costs due to previous work on their other Tesla cars, making a sub $40,000 electric car with a 200 mile range should be possible.


RE: One thing...
By Solandri on 2/11/2014 4:55:33 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I see it happening. In 4 years they went from a $100,000+ Roadster to a $70,000 Model S. [...] So in 4 years with battery tech improving and less R&D costs due to previous work on their other Tesla cars, making a sub $40,000 electric car with a 200 mile range should be possible.

So with the price dropping $30,000 every 4 years, by 2026, Tesla will be paying you $20,000 to take one of their cars from them.

http://xkcd.com/605/


RE: One thing...
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/14, Rating: 0
RE: One thing...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/11/14, Rating: -1
RE: One thing...
By SeeManRun on 2/11/2014 4:24:45 PM , Rating: 3
The first flights were for the rich, as were the first cars, refrigerators, and indoor plumbing. Everything starts out for the wealthy because they are the only ones that can pay such high initial costs.

The supercharger is not meant to service every Tesla owner all the time. But if you happen to be going the same way, it is a very nice convenience to have. And if they can expand to more areas, great; but you don't buy a Tesla with the intention of heavy supercharger use.


RE: One thing...
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 4:28:55 PM , Rating: 2
Camry for $350/mo, plus $200/mo in fuel costs, or a third-gen Tesla, essentially an electric BMW, for about the same total cost. Even at a slight premium, the Tesla is guaranteed to sell out.

quote:
My only point is that when that $500 lease point for the Tesla approaches, the Camry and other sedans are still going to be top sellers. Hardly "irrelevant".


Of course. I was just joking about irrelevant. Tesla could sell the best car in the world for $20k, and they'd still be limited by their comparatively tiny production capacity.

By the time any of this happens, hopefully the Volt and Prius will have caught up a little bit.


RE: One thing...
By Spuke on 2/11/2014 5:05:44 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Camry for $350/mo, plus $200/mo in fuel costs, or a third-gen Tesla
Quit making sh!t up! $200/mo in fuel for a Camry? Not with the Camry's fuel economy and not with your average commute are you going to be paying $200 a month in fuel. I pay ROUGHLY $200 a month in fuel for a 27 mpg (actual hand calculated) sports car with a 66 mile round trip per day commute.


RE: One thing...
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/14, Rating: 0
RE: One thing...
By Spuke on 2/11/14, Rating: 0
RE: One thing...
By robertgu on 2/11/2014 9:19:12 PM , Rating: 3
And yet you assume Camry will use $200 in fuel costs per month, which back of the napkin calcs using $4.00 per gallon avg fuel costs and 27 MPG equals to about 1,350 miles per month.

But you in the earlier post are saying the Tesla will be $500 per month lease yet decide to not include the cost increase to the monthly electric bill? If you want to make comparisons you need to be more through and try to make as much an apples to apples comparison to have legitimacy good sir.


RE: One thing...
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 10:15:19 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
If you want to make comparisons you need to be more through and try to make as much an apples to apples comparison to have legitimacy good sir.


No.. If I wanted to do an apples-to-apples comparison, I wouldn't be comparing the Model E with a Camry, but rather with a BMW 3 Series or Audi A4.

I made a quick example without doing any calculations, to show that even the most popular mid-size in the USA is within the same ballpark as the Model E. The very next line says "Even at a slight premium", implying the total cost of the Model E would actually be higher. Meaning, anyone in the market for a Camry might choose to opt for a Model E instead. Is this really so hard to understand?


RE: One thing...
By half_duplex on 2/12/2014 11:30:47 AM , Rating: 2
I drive an A4 and my sisters BF drives a gen 2 Model S.

It is a really nice interior and basically a xvga screen on the dash, but we took a few longer than average drives in it and they were constantly looking for super chargers. We basically had to stop either before or after every hour or so drive for "starbucks" while he plugged up. I couldn't handle that.


RE: One thing...
By Nutzo on 2/12/2014 1:26:07 PM , Rating: 2
This is exactly why electic cars will never replace gas cars unless there is a huge breakthough in battery capacity and charging speed.

With the rising electricity prices (at least here in California), and with states getting ready to start charging a mileage tax on electric cars to pay for the highways, the cost saving will largely disappear.


RE: One thing...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/12/2014 2:53:41 PM , Rating: 2
Ugh ridiculous. Your sisters BF can obviously afford to piss away half a day at Starbucks charging up, but most Americans can't. Which is why EV's will never be ready for prime time, way too impracticable for the majority.


RE: One thing...
By Qapa on 2/11/2014 2:56:58 PM , Rating: 2
As Reclaimer is saying, that is highly doubtful.

Either range will drop or price will be higher.

It is actually not "his fault", but I don't think battery will reach that point that soon.

And I think he also had made some estimates for previous cars that were also on lower price...

Again, great cars, but the battery is still keeping with lower range or higher price.

But even if he can put out a... let's say 40k with 150 real miles it would be a great achievement.

Nissan is also trying to get to somewhere near that...

I'd bet both will fall short of the promises, but still any improvements are welcome and are a path to EVs being more mainstream ready.


RE: One thing...
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 3:21:18 PM , Rating: 4
Neither of you actually suggested any reason as to why it's doubtful. Keep in mind Tesla's successive "impossible" achievements, world's first and second worthwhile electric car, supercharger network, Consumer Reports 99%, etc.

Then remember that the $35k third-gen vehicle was the goal all along. And now they're building the world's largest battery factory. With scale comes cost reduction. Everything hinges on that factory.


RE: One thing...
By Spuke on 2/11/14, Rating: 0
RE: One thing...
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 6:03:17 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
What impossible achievements has he done?


quote:
Keep in mind Tesla's successive "impossible" achievements, world's first and second worthwhile electric car, supercharger network, Consumer Reports 99%, etc.


quote:
Everything he's done is entirely possible with today's battery tech

..LOL. No shit, but everyone SAID it would be impossible before the Roadster and Model S.

quote:
($100k price point for the vehicle and not giving zero f%^ks about making money from this)

Starts at $70k pre-credit, margins are ~30%

quote:
And wasn't the Model X supposed to be the cheap car?

No


RE: One thing...
By Spuke on 2/11/2014 6:34:44 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
No
No? Oh yeah! Now you guys don't remember. LOL! That's ok, I do.


RE: One thing...
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 7:26:50 PM , Rating: 2
Some media erroneously printed that last year, I am guessing that's why you are confused.


RE: One thing...
By Rukkian on 2/12/2014 9:14:22 AM , Rating: 2
The model X was always supposed to be a crossover. The cheaper one was always the one after the X, which apparently is now referred to as the "E". Originally, the X was going to come out this year, but was delayed, with the follow up sometime in late 2015 or 2016, however, quite awile ago, it was reported that those timeframes have been moved back. Some media outlets decided to use some poetic license and claim that the X (now coming in 2015-2016) would be the cheaper car, but they were wrong.

I can see an issue with slipping timelines, but the X was never mentioned by Tesla to be a cheaper car. If they can build a crossover with the same fit and finish, and get near the range, there is no way it will be cheaper. They would have to cut quite a few corners to do that at this point.


RE: One thing...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/12/14, Rating: -1
RE: One thing...
By robertgu on 2/11/2014 9:30:45 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
And now they're building the world's largest battery factory. With scale comes cost reduction. Everything hinges on that factory.


IIRC, the biggest limiter on reducing the costs of automotive grade battery packs isn't the manufacturing efficiencies, it's the materials, i.e. lithium. I know lithium is rare and hard to acquire. With the increase in lithium based automotive battery packs it's extremely likely this raw material will continue to sky rocket in pricing (law of supply and demand).

I'm pulling for Tesla. I hope they find new battery chemistries which will allow them to obtain the range and performance they want while significantly reducing it's costs by using more efficient or cheaper raw materials.


RE: One thing...
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 10:37:11 PM , Rating: 2
Saw recent video Q&A where it was actually mentioned that there is no shortage of lithium, that lithium is not as important as people think and that the real problem is nickel. I will post it if I can find it again.


RE: One thing...
By McGaiden on 2/11/2014 4:16:13 PM , Rating: 1
Their stated aim was 2016 and 2017 as last resort.

In a recent interview, their design chief went out on a limb and said we could see one in early 2015.
(Source: http://green.autoblog.com/2013/12/16/tesla-model-e...

The company came back to the press and essentially denied what he said. It was a moment of candor from his side, so it's likely they are aiming for a 2015 release but don't want to commit to one because they understand it's better to underaim and overperform than the other way 'round.

Nevertheless, we should probably realistically expect Model E in 2016 and possibly as soon as 2015 if we're lucky. There's still almost 2 years to the last few months of 2015 if they are aiming for a pre-Christmas release.


RE: One thing...
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 5:00:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
it's likely they are aiming for a 2015 release


Did you not read the article you linked? It says the Model E might be shown at an auto show in 2015. Not released.

When it was announced in 2012, the Model X was supposed to start delivery in 2013, volume in 2014. Haven't even seen the production model yet. Expect delays.

The battery factory is a requisite for the Model E and it's not even close to being built yet. I'm saying Q1 2018.


RE: One thing...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/11/14, Rating: -1
RE: One thing...
By flyingpants1 on 2/11/2014 6:05:15 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, just like the Model S and Roadster were vaporware.


RE: One thing...
By Spuke on 2/11/2014 6:36:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yes, just like the Model S and Roadster were vaporware.
No, none of those were vaporware. Again, making sh!t up.


RE: One thing...
By Nutzo on 2/12/2014 1:16:48 PM , Rating: 2
Sure, because the 600 mile cruising range, and quick 3 minute fillup of my Camry hybrid is irrelevant.

It's much better to have to stop for 30 minutes every 150 miles so I can quick-charge a car and to plan my road trip based on where you can actually find one of these quick-charge stations. FYI: 30 minutes is NOT quick compared to filling up a gas tank.


"So if you want to save the planet, feel free to drive your Hummer. Just avoid the drive thru line at McDonalds." -- Michael Asher














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