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Print 57 comment(s) - last by chripuck.. on Oct 25 at 1:14 PM

He'll do so at an event today at 11:25 a.m.

U.S. President Barack Obama has called the issues with the HealthCare.gov website "unacceptable" at an event this morning.

According to Reuters, Obama announced a plan to address the recent problems with HealthCare.gov at an event today in the White House Rose Garden. Consumers, pharmacists and business owners were in attendance. 

With the rollout of Obamacare on October 1, a key part of the program is consumer accessibility to HealthCare.gov in order to select new insurance plans. The idea behind it is to bring health insurance to Americans that have gone without, and it also doesn't prevent those with pre-existing conditions to apply. 

But the White House didn't expect HealthCare.gov to see the amount of traffic it did when Obamacare began. Within the first 10 days, there were over 19 million visits to the site. This led to many technical problems with the site, such as jumbled text, error messages and delays with loading pages. 


Obama even compared the glitchy website to iOS 7.

Obama sees this as a serious issue and addressed it today, calling it unacceptable" and planning new ways for Americans to get insurance exchanges despite site issues. 

"The president will directly address the technical problems with HealthCare.gov - troubles that he and his team find unacceptable - and discuss the actions he has pushed for to make it easier for consumers to comparison shop and enroll for insurance while work continues around the clock to improve the website," said a White House official.

According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), fixes are being made to the site, but it's not all bad. It said people have been successful in other tasks on HealthCare.gov, such as verifying eligibility. 

"Individuals have been able to verify their eligibility for credits, enabling them to shop for, and enroll in, low- or even no-cost health plans," said HHS. "We have updated the site several times with new code that includes bug fixes. Our team has called in additional help to solve some of the more complex technical issues we are encountering."

As of last Saturday night, it was reported that almost half a million Americans applied for health insurance as part of Obamacare. 

Source: Reuters



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Bogus
By wookie1 on 10/21/2013 12:11:45 PM , Rating: 5
It has been widely reported that the problems are not so much related to high traffic, but to poor design as well as a political decision to not allow people to browse the plans until they enter all of their personal info so that the price they see will reflect the subsidies that they may be eligible for. The administration was nervous about the sticker shock people would have otherwise.

If such a poor design were released by Apple or any other private enterprise, there would be accountability and heads would roll. Since this is a government operation, we will just have this wailing and barking about how it is unacceptable, but that's it. In fact, Obama has already re-stated his confidence in the head of the HHS.

The irony is that after Obama and congress shut the government down to resist the calls to delay the individual mandate for a year, he may need to do that anyway if few people can get insurance through the exchange! Don't think that calling instead of using the website will help you, the person you call will be using the same website and it won't work for them, either.




RE: Bogus
By Flunk on 10/21/2013 12:17:28 PM , Rating: 3
The problem is not so much the design, as it is the fact that they didn't have time to actually finish the application or do any testing. The contractor was given 6 months to develop the software after a protracted requirements stage that took them years to sort out.

You just can't build this kind of system that quickly.


RE: Bogus
By retrospooty on 10/21/2013 12:22:42 PM , Rating: 5
Yup.. and that is perfect example of govt. efficiency at its best. To me , its not even about left, v right, govt run vs private. The govt needs to be smaller and not involved for one main simple reason. Its too big and inefficient to do anything right or cost effectively.


RE: Bogus
By Samus on 10/21/2013 1:29:51 PM , Rating: 2
I too read that the contractor was just some big common government player. They had no experience in doing this sort of thing.

As if this bill didn't have enough bad karma behind it, they couldn't even get the god damn database right.


RE: Bogus
By retrospooty on 10/21/2013 5:16:35 PM , Rating: 4
That is how everything works in Washington. THe firm hired isnt the firm with the best quote/qualifications. It's the firm owed favors. Thus the same reason Iraqi companies bidding to rebuild bridges in iRaq for $500,000 lose out to companies like Haliburton who bid the same bridge for $50,000,000.


RE: Bogus
By Paj on 10/22/13, Rating: -1
RE: Bogus
By AssBall on 10/21/2013 12:27:46 PM , Rating: 5
Finish the application? Hell, they didn't even have time to properly even write up the bill before they shoved it through congress without proper voting.

Now we have the slowest bureaucracy on Earth trying to manage the largest health care system ever. It is estimated that financially what they are trying to take on equates to the entire economy of France.

Then we hire a company to do the technical work whom Ontario FIRED for their mismanagement. $@#*ing incredible!


RE: Bogus
By Argon18 on 10/21/2013 4:46:01 PM , Rating: 3
Welcome to the new Hope-N-Change way.


RE: Bogus
By wookie1 on 10/21/2013 12:28:32 PM , Rating: 5
The administration had 3.5 years to get this going. I'm not trying to lay all of the blame on the contractors here. The administration delayed making many of the rules for ACA until after the 2012 election due to the unpopular provisions in it. So now here we are today where the users are beta testers and there are only a few months left for them to sign up or they'll have to pay the penalty. You have to have coverage in place by 2/15/14, which means that you'll need to have completed the application by 1/31/14. Otherwise you pay $95 OR 1% of your income, whichever is higher.

If the website isn't working waaaay better by about 11/15/13, then it will be a big problem for the insurers to process the applications in time.


RE: Bogus
By purerice on 10/23/2013 2:29:25 PM , Rating: 2
Reminds me of the story of the 1982 PC game for the film E.T. The developer had 6 weeks to make a game. There's not much even John Carmack could do in 6 weeks or 6 months.

The first thing they should have done here was ask companies such as Walmart or Amazon or insurance companies how long they would imagine such a website might take to properly develop, and the second thing they should have done was a limited deployment. To compare this to iOS7, which I don't have, btw, is nonsensical. Maybe you can compare this to the original deployment of Apple Maps. That would be more honest but less flattering.


RE: Bogus
By Argon18 on 10/21/2013 12:26:25 PM , Rating: 3
It isn't "irony", this was the cornerstone of the Republican argument to delay it for a year. Surprise surprise, turns out they were right.

This whole ObamaCare thing is a house of cards anyways that's going to come crashing down. The primary idiocy of it, is that it follows the broken Social Security model, creating another "too big to fail" national program that is so large and so expensive, it's unmanageable, and there's zero accountability for where the $Billions in taxpayer dollars go.

Secondly, Obama himself has stated that the plan depends on 7 Million healthy young people signing up in the first year, to help fund the thing. He won't even get 1/10 of that. Even 1/100th would be a stretch. The opening enrollment numbers are so abysmal, the Whitehouse won't release them. All aboard the Titanic 2.0 aka ObamaCare!


RE: Bogus
By tayb on 10/21/13, Rating: -1
RE: Bogus
By Dorkyman on 10/21/2013 1:10:18 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, there are aspects of Obamacare that are positive. But on the whole it's a disaster and the way it was sleight-of-hand rammed through Congress (with not a single R vote) was detestable.

So kill it. Kill it and bring back those portions that are common sense.

I continue to be amazed at the incompetence shown by Dear Leader and his administration. And I'm saddened by the thought that the American public elected this bozo in the first place. Says a lot about our country's future.


RE: Bogus
By tayb on 10/21/2013 1:24:27 PM , Rating: 3
I think it actually had one Republican vote, ha. It was passed by a majority so I don't think there was really anything undemocratic about it. The Democrats just had complete control of the executive and legislative branch as the general population of America strongly rebuked Bush and the Republicans.

I don't agree with killing the bill, only replacing it. Republicans look like idiots incessantly voting to repeal the ACA. They don't have a majority in the Senate, don't have a super majority in the House, and don't have control of the executive. The bill is not going to be repealed, probably ever. My chief complaint against Republicans is that they have no alternative. I have absolutely zero belief that if they were to succeed in repealing the ACA they would pass a replacement ever. The healthcare industry in this country absolutely unequivocally must be overhauled. If the ACA is such a train wreck I would love to see the Republicans have a stab at healthcare overhaul.

We spend almost twice as much as other developed countries and get half the care. We can't go back to the "2008 normal." Not ever. We have to fix the healthcare industry or it is going to drain the life out of the economy.


RE: Bogus
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2013 2:20:29 PM , Rating: 3
Obamacare does nothing to reform healthcare. Infact it exaserbates many issues.

Its a known fact now that healthcare is getting MORE expensive because of the so-called ACA. So its failed at its most basic goal.

On top of adding a trillion to the deficit, per year.

Obamacare is just a giant tax increase and wealth redistribution scheme. Let's just acknowledge that first, before pretending something positive will come from this much corrupt beuracracy.


RE: Bogus
By Rukkian on 10/21/2013 2:27:09 PM , Rating: 4
While I don't think the bill is neccessarily the answer, I think it is better than "lets stick our heads in the sand and maybe it will fix itself" that the Reps have been trying to accomplish. No healthcare proposals at all, just stick with what is not working.

There are many very good things in this bill, including no lifetime maximums, no worry about pre existing, amoung others. To be able to accomplish these, it does require that everybody has insurance one way or another to accomplish those things.

Having everybody have insurance should help people to actually get preventive care, avoiding trips to the ER or hospital stay in some cases. This is a positive side effect.

I really wish the right would stop with the "Repeal ACA" and come out and offer their suggestions to the problems with health care. Right now what they are doing is even worse than what the left is doing (which is bad to begin with). Neither side is doing much at this point.


RE: Bogus
By Ammohunt on 10/21/2013 2:31:32 PM , Rating: 5
The real solution to the perceived healthcare problems in the US is to execute all trial lawyers.


RE: Bogus
By EricMartello on 10/24/2013 3:38:16 PM , Rating: 2
Or we could reform tort laws to limit what lawsuits can be filed and for what; thus eliminating the ambulance chasers.

The ACA has nothing to do with healthcare, btw. It's all about health insurance...access to health insurance =/= access to health care.

At any time prior to the ACA rollout, you or anyone else could have signed up for private health insurance directly through a carrier. The pre-existing condition issue was the big "selling point" of the ACA...well, they could have just passed a law that prohibits insurance companies from turning people down due to pre-existing conditions, allowing the insurance companies to bill them higher premiums/deductibles due to their obviously higher risk.


RE: Bogus
By ianweck on 10/21/2013 2:42:30 PM , Rating: 3
I don't know why people insist Republicans have never put forth an alternative. Yes it requires a repeal of Obamacare, but that is a good thing. It keeps several positive points of Obamacare.

http://news.yahoo.com/republican-alternative-obama...


RE: Bogus
By Rukkian on 10/21/2013 3:43:50 PM , Rating: 2
If you read the link you sent, it shows that a bill has never even been out for a vote, and is not actually finalized. This is not a solution if it has not even been written yet.

Without a mandate, I am not sure how you can force insurance companies to cover pre-exisitng. It also says nothing about lifetime max payouts. For pre-existing, it simply says that it is limited to 200% of the standard rate, but that just means they will raise the regular rate to compensate. You will still see many people without insurance since it is too expensive, and just end up going to the emergency room. Then if they get a long term (or terminal disease), or pregnancy they will go on insurance at that point, and only have to pay double what others pay.

This is not sustainable imo.


RE: Bogus
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2013 2:42:51 PM , Rating: 2
The premise that the republicans need an alternative big-Government plan kind of defeats the point, doesn't it?

Big-Goverent getting involved in healthcare to "fix' things is why we have the mess we have.

And let's be real, Republicans HAVE made many great proposals! The Democrats and the President treat any proposal that isn't designed to grow the deficit and expand Government as a non:starter.


RE: Bogus
By tayb on 10/21/13, Rating: -1
RE: Bogus
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/13, Rating: 0
RE: Bogus
By KCjoker on 10/21/2013 6:31:48 PM , Rating: 2
It's not BS, just look how Gov't runs things it's a fact they are insanely inefficient. And the Repubs have given specific ideas just the Libs don't like them. First we need TORT reform, second we need competition across state lines. Last but not least we need ALL hospitals to have concrete info on what they charge for their services. Why should I blindly visit hospital A for a hip replacement for 10K if hospital B does the same for 5K for example. Now YOU can shut up instead of being a champion for big Gov't which is destroying this country.


RE: Bogus
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2013 6:39:00 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Big Government BS??

Let's take a look at Social Security and Medicare, shall we? Some of the worst programs, offering the lowest quality care, and they are like 40 TRILLION in debt!

And these are the people we want running the health insurance of every citizen in the country???

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/201...


RE: Bogus
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2013 6:35:05 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
No healthcare proposals at all, just stick with what is not working.


Also, and this isn't just directed at you, I'm sick of debating along this false premise.

For the vast sweeping majority of Americans, there simply was no imminent healthcare issue. Certainly not a crisis that needed immediate action from Washington.

Not working? I'm far from "rich", and I couldn't be happier with my current health plan coverage!!

Now you're telling me that because of some faceless "uninsured" people I shouldn't be beholden to, I have to pay higher premiums, have less choice, AND lose my current personal physician and enter an "exchange".

In the immortal words of Jesse Pinkman, "well Heil Hitler bit*h!"

And my god, have you seen the deductibles of some of these plans!? Even the "Bronze" plan, the "most affordable", has INSANE deductibles.

This whole goddamn thing is a clusterf*ck, it's a mess. It's the biggest boondoggle ever! It's worst than it was!!! Doing nothing would ABSOLUTELY be better than Obamacare.

There is NOTHING more important to the future of this country than repealing the ACA. Repeat, NOTHING else matters! If we don't stop this now, the country is over!!! The Federal Government will have unlimited mandate power over it's citizens. Do you people not understand this!??


RE: Bogus
By R3T4rd on 10/22/2013 6:31:34 AM , Rating: 2
Welcome to the Social Democracy of the United States of America!

Sad our kids are taught by mostly socialistic leftist school teachers and professors so they are ingrained with socialistic ideas.

Sad for the change everyone voted for.

Sad my Healthcare jumped 3X the amount and now I am limited to what I can choose - yes thats from my private sector employer who is a Fortune 500 company.

Sad this once great country now is just figment of itself.

Happy I lived and grew up in the 80's.

Seriously, we should split the US in half right down the Mississippi River. I wonder how long the Socialistic Liberal side of the US will last before they squander to the door steps of the Capitalistic Conservative US asking for help? Greece......


RE: Bogus
By Ammohunt on 10/22/2013 2:02:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Seriously, we should split the US in half right down the Mississippi River.


I agree split it somewhere; I will not live nor have my children live in the version of America the academic leftists of this country aim to create. I will fight it by whatever means necessary. Its time for those that want to retain a constitutional republic separate themselves from those who want Neo-European Socialist America.

Mr president just because you won an elections doesn't mean you have a mandate from the people to do whatever the hell you like.


RE: Bogus
By chripuck on 10/25/2013 1:14:06 PM , Rating: 2
I'm a red voter through and through, but the prices I saw quoted on healthcare.gov were sensible. They were inline with what I pay now through my small business employer and had similar deductibles. Interestingly enough if I wanted to go the disasterous coverage route I could say $500 a month.

Now granted I didn't actually go through the website application process, they simply asked me for my zip code, but apparently I'm "poor" enough that I should qualify for some sort of discount (apparently if you make less than 95,000/year with 2 children and a spouse you're poor now.)

Being a software consultant myself I find the 600 million price tag insulting, even if it was a perfectly functioning, state of the art website. The fact that it works poorly just adds insult to injury. I mean for heavens sake, Facebook was written by three kids in a dormroom over the span of 6 months. We seriously can't find a team of professional web developers to build this thing in a year when we have 600 million dollars available?


RE: Bogus
By cruisin3style on 10/21/2013 5:48:24 PM , Rating: 2
i'm 95% sure it is 1 trillion every 10 years, although how even that is justified i'm not sure

your post is just proof about how little factual information is actually out there about obamacare, and how much wildly inaccurate info is being spread

no matter how true or insane the basic idea is behind the information you are spreading, it helps to have the right info and not be off by, say, 1,000%


RE: Bogus
By Ammohunt on 10/21/2013 2:20:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Says a lot about our country's future.


America is the Edmund Fitzgerald and there is a storm on the horizon.


RE: Bogus
By ianweck on 10/21/2013 2:44:30 PM , Rating: 2
Lol this sounds a lot like the launch of Obamacare.

quote:
the ship suffered a series of mishaps during her launch: it took three attempts to break the champagne bottle used to christen her, and she collided with a pier when she entered the water.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald


RE: Bogus
By FITCamaro on 10/21/2013 3:05:03 PM , Rating: 2
Except the ban on pre-existing conditions skyrockets the cost of everyone else's healthcare.


RE: Bogus
By Rukkian on 10/21/2013 3:38:57 PM , Rating: 2
So what is your suggestion for somebody that gets sick, just let them die unless they are rich?

I personally will not (at least in the forseeable future) need the exchange, as I have insurance from both myself and my wife's job and have not been without insurance in my life, but others are not as fortunate.


RE: Bogus
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2013 6:46:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So what is your suggestion for somebody that gets sick


Uhhh go to a doctor? It works for nearly every American.

quote:
I personally will not (at least in the forseeable future) need the exchange, as I have insurance from both myself and my wife's job and have not been without insurance in my life


So are you "rich"?? Is your wife "rich"?

You said you've never been without insurance in your entire life. So have you been "rich" your entire life?

Sorry but I'm so goddamn sick of the hyperbole of stating that only the "rich" get healthcare in this country. It's bullsh*t and you know it!

Stop being a collectivist shill man.


RE: Bogus
By Spuke on 10/21/2013 7:05:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sorry but I'm so goddamn sick of the hyperbole of stating that only the "rich" get healthcare in this country. It's bullsh*t and you know it!
I'm tired of hearing this BS too!! One of my sis-in-laws and her husband (with two kids) work at car dealerships, neither are salesman. They pay an insane $900 a month for health insurance (with a $1500 deductible at that). They will NOT qualify for any subsidy and they're told obamacare WILL be raising their premium not lowering it. These are middle class people, not rich people and there are MILLIONS of people just like them. Where's their help?

I'm lucky, I've always worked for a large corp and currently work for the fed. I get/got healthcare cheap. I keep hearing this helping the middle class sh!t from Obama and I see no help for any middle class people I know. Sh!t I even heard that if you make $10 an hr but your company offers health insurance, even if you don't qualify for your companies insurance, you're not eligible for a subsidy. WTF kind of sh!t is that? Who is this actually helping?


RE: Bogus
By Sazabi19 on 10/22/2013 11:10:54 AM , Rating: 2
Mostly minorities and welfare recipients. I work for local govt and our healthcare costs are going up and so are deductibles... Thanks a lot Obama. Again!


RE: Bogus
By Keeir on 10/22/2013 1:48:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
So what is your suggestion for somebody that gets sick, just let them die unless they are rich?


Everyone dies. The US could devote 100% of our resources and our labor to healthcare and research... and still everyone will die. Even France who has a great universal healthcare system open to essentially everyone since 2000 has a life expectancy of just 81.5 years to the US's 78.5 (of course if you take out fatal accidents etc, the numbers rise to ~81 for the US and ~82 for France).

A large percentage of people who die are sick when they die. This is true for both the rich and the poor.

Lets get a few things straight.

The "Affordable Care Act" has nothing to do with healthcare. It has everything to do with Healthcare Insurance. It is an insurance reform act. Now, believe it or not, but Insurance is a relatively simple business. A company bills its customers for more money than it pays out. Simple right? The Affordable Care Act does limit the amount that an Insurance company can keep for itself. That is a good thing. But the truth is... if we want there to be insurance companies, they must make a reasonable profit. Looking at property and auto companies... they tend to make ~7-8% net profit margin. Most healthcare insurance companies make.... ~5-10% profit margin! So the ACA will prevent healthcare insurance companies from being a better investment that other forms of insurance. Good. The bad? Most of the ACA provisions will significantly increase the amount of money that insurance companies will have to payout. If healthy people sign up for insurance and do not use healthcare then it will be "okay". But I doubt this will happen. People will use the insurance, and insurance companies will end up paying out more and more and thus have to raise rates. Not because they are greedy or evil. Because people will consume more healthcare!

Meanwhile, what really needs to occur is reform of the Healthcare system and the general cost of Healthcare (which will continue to rise at rates faster than inflation)

We still need to find a way to pay doctors less. To increase the supply and quality of doctors. To prevent malpractice suits from crushing quality establishments. To increase efficiency in choice of testing, medicines, and procedures.


RE: Bogus
By superstition on 10/21/2013 1:32:05 PM , Rating: 2
It does not follow the Social Security model.

It is a brand new creature.

The entire point of "Obamacare" was to get the Supreme Court to establish the legal precedent that the government can force tax-payers to pay the bribe money they get.

The problems with Social Security are that there is such a low taxation cap and that it relies on payroll taxes, which tend to be regressive. But, that is nothing comparable to forcing tax-payer to bankroll the bribes and advertizing plus the salaries of lobbyists and CEOs.

The "ooo government bad" thing is unhelpful. It's better to understand exactly what the problem is in order to fight it. Railing against all government programs is an exercise in futility. You need to be targeted in your criticism.

1) There is going to be government whether you like it or not.

2) It is going to be "big" because we are a big nation, it's a big world to deal with, and life is complex (and growing in complexity). I am fond of the quote from Civ IV "the bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy", but anarchy is no picnic.

3) If you don't like it, it's up to you and everyone else to do something about it. Complaining in a forum post is one thing, but there are more effective avenues for trying to foment change.

The corruption of the government reflects the corruption of us. It didn't spring up out of the earth or pop in out of thin air. Cravenness is what brings us to where we are today. Government/law is about maintaining elite privilege. Period. That it prevents the rest of us from being taken over by other groups, slaughtered, and so on is only because they need our labor and energy to have their privilege.


RE: Bogus
By Keeir on 10/22/2013 3:10:10 PM , Rating: 2
Gosh

quote:
The problems with Social Security are that there is such a low taxation cap and that it relies on payroll taxes, which tend to be regressive. But, that is nothing comparable to forcing tax-payer to bankroll the bribes and advertizing plus the salaries of lobbyists and CEOs.


Wow. Social Security is NOT regressive. While its a flat tax, the benefits scale is not proportional. For people making under 25,000 dollars year, Social Security is the very best retirement investment possible. For people making more than 100,000 dollars a year, Social Security is closer to putting money in a checking account. Sure there is a cap to taxing it, but there is also a cap to payout! Social Security is -progressive-. Maybe not as much as some wish, but the program is not even flat let alone regressive.

quote:
2) It is going to be "big" because we are a big nation, it's a big world to deal with, and life is complex (and growing in complexity). I am fond of the quote from Civ IV "the bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy", but anarchy is no picnic.


Funny, you just listed the reasons why big government is bad. The US is a BIG country requiring COMPLEX solutions to problems. COMPLEX solutions are more efficiently handled by many semi-independant choice makers cross sharing data. Not a centralized authority. As the US grows "larger" and more complex, Big government will have to spend more and more resources keeping everyong toeing the big government line. At least if it doesn't decide to go police and one party system.


RE: Bogus
By wookie1 on 10/21/2013 1:52:55 PM , Rating: 2
The irony is that Obama and the dems just got done using a government shutdown to avoid the Republican push to delay the mandate for a year, but now Obama may have to do that anyway because of the totally flubbed implementation. How will he then justify shutting down the government?


RE: Bogus
By tayb on 10/21/2013 2:11:19 PM , Rating: 1
Imagine a baseball game. The Democrats are pitching and the Republicans are up to bat.

Oops. The batter is refusing to bat. Unfortunately there are no rules that force a batter to bat so the game is indefinitely delayed. The batter suggests a compromise to end the delayed game. He suggests that the pitchers forfeit the game and in exchange the batter will bat. The pitchers reject this "compromise" and the game remains delayed.

And you sit here in the stands yelling at the pitchers to just forfeit the game already! You idiots, just compromise!


RE: Bogus
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2013 2:30:24 PM , Rating: 1
I love how the Republicans, once again, caved in and ended up with NOTHING the people wanted. Obama gets another debt ceiling increase, another trillion dollar loan on already borrowed money, and Obamacare funding!

Its like an all-you-can-fuck-over America buffet!

Reid and Obama made it clear there would be NO compromises. They are the true extremists. When it comes to political brinksmanship the Republican party seems entirely inept.


RE: Bogus
By Rukkian on 10/21/2013 3:50:22 PM , Rating: 3
Not negotiating with Reps who said either repeal (or defund) ACA or shut down government is not neccessarily a bad thing. Don't shut down the government to stop something that is a law, and has made it through the supreme court. Propse a new law, put out the details to the American public, and it is supported, you should be able to get into power in the next election.

Apparently they have not learned that the strategy of only doing things to get Obama out of office did not work last year, and so far does not seem to be working out well for next year either.

I really depise Obama and what the Dems are doing, but think the obstinance and stubbornness that the Reps are doing is even worse. I wanted to vote for somebody to replace obama (and most of the other dems) but with what they offered up, it was a no brainer in my book to stay with what we have.


RE: Bogus
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2013 6:06:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Propse a new law, put out the details to the American public, and it is supported, you should be able to get into power in the next election.


Okay what about this are you not understanding? The ACA is law. Proposing new laws on top of the ACA would be horrible. Until ACA is repealed, you cannot simply propose ANOTHER sweeping health-care law. ACA is so vast-reaching, so all-encompassing, there's just no way to tip toe around it with further legislation.

quote:
I really depise Obama and what the Dems are doing, but think the obstinance and stubbornness that the Reps are doing is even worse.


That's one huge contradiction.

Obama and Reid have routinely made statements to the effect that because they won the election, they see no need to engage in the Democratic process. The Republicans can just go screw off basically.

I'm not saying the Republicans have handled this all that great. But the amount of vitriol coming from the Left and the President has been unbelievable. The President blames them for everything, insults them at every turn, mocks their position and policies...it's just incredible.

And then people like you view them as cranky "obstinate" obstructionists!? They represent millions of Americans, remember? We're supposed to have a voice through our Representatives. When you effectively stonewall half of Congress from the Democratic process, I fail to see how that can lead to a favorable outcome.


RE: Bogus
By wookie1 on 10/21/2013 3:12:34 PM , Rating: 3
I think the Dems were the ones unwilling to compromise. Something about "we will not negotiate!" and then all of the name calling, such as calling anyone that disagrees with them terrorists or hostage-takers. Why wouldn't the Dems just compromise as you suggest?


RE: Bogus
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2013 6:20:25 PM , Rating: 4
“You know, with a bully, you cannot let them slap you around, Because if they slap you around today, they slap you 5 or 6 six times tomorrow. We are not going to be bullied. We’ve done everything we can and we’ve done it very reasonably.”

Harry Reid

Truly the words of a great compromiser, am I right? Democracy = bullying...


RE: Bogus
By gusc3669 on 10/21/2013 5:42:05 PM , Rating: 2
What shutdown? At my company not having to go to work and being paid for it is called a vacation. Sign me up!


RE: Bogus
By piroroadkill on 10/22/2013 3:56:23 AM , Rating: 2
You mean like the banking system, where they utterly failed to make responsible decisions on a near-constant basis.

Heads rolled there.

Oh wait, no, they didn't.


RE: Bogus
By Paj on 10/22/2013 8:16:50 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
If such a poor design were released by Apple or any other private enterprise, there would be accountability and heads would roll.


You mean like all those bankers got arrested for selling financial products based on toxic mortgage debt?


"I'd be pissed too, but you didn't have to go all Minority Report on his ass!" -- Jon Stewart on police raiding Gizmodo editor Jason Chen's home

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