Source: The Detroit News
quote: Prior to this practice farmers would do two very bad things -1) Farm all their land every single year until the land was no longer suitable due to soil depletion
quote: 2) All farmers would farm all available land which in aggregate would collapse the price of the crops being farmed, putting huge swaths of them out of business.
quote: The Government solution permitted a stable, sustainable long term farming industry that now produces almost as much food as the rest of the world combined. Its a huge American success story, and it could not have happened without regulation and yes, subsidy.
quote: That does not mean that all those subsidies make sense today, only that they made absolute sense in the time they were created, and they likely still make sense in some form now.
quote: Farmers would farm to meet demand for the area they serve. They would not expend more resources to farm crops they they would not be able to sell at a profit. quote: Which infers that there would never be an oversupply. quote: Subsidies were enacted in a time when the price of certain crops - particularly corn - was cheaper than the cost to grow it. Which infers an oversupply, which according to the above can not happen, because farmers are thr masters of the free market and will account for ever market factor that affects the price of their goods.The point of the subsidies is to keep the cost of goods stable. Nothing more and nothing less. Too much production buts farmers out of business, to little leads to price spikes. Neither is good for the economy.Or in other words: The net cost of the farm subsidies is less then the long term effect of getting rid of them.
quote: Which infers that there would never be an oversupply. quote: Subsidies were enacted in a time when the price of certain crops - particularly corn - was cheaper than the cost to grow it. Which infers an oversupply, which according to the above can not happen, because farmers are thr masters of the free market and will account for ever market factor that affects the price of their goods.The point of the subsidies is to keep the cost of goods stable. Nothing more and nothing less. Too much production buts farmers out of business, to little leads to price spikes. Neither is good for the economy.Or in other words: The net cost of the farm subsidies is less then the long term effect of getting rid of them.
quote: Subsidies were enacted in a time when the price of certain crops - particularly corn - was cheaper than the cost to grow it.
quote: Exactly. Based on what he is saying the Dust Bowl never happened. It did. It happened because of bad farming practices, including what I mentioned.
quote: He's really caught up in insulting a perceived 'liberal' any way he can rather than addressing the topic.
quote: For the record I'm a fiscally right leaning moderate, a socially left leaning moderate. But to the extremes there are no moderates and so to him I will just be a liberal, eh?
quote: There is a time and a place for government. Regulation and subsidies both do have a place. The largest problem I have is the lack of a re-evaluation or expiration point where things can be examined and decided on whether or not they still make sense.
quote: No, a moderate is someone who recognizes merit in some liberal and some conservative positions, and realizes that the world is not as simple as proponents of either would like to believe.
quote: In some areas unfettered free markets make sense. In others, regulated free markets make sense. And in still others, government implementation makes sense.That's reality. I'm sorry it does not conform to your preconceived notions.
quote: America wasn't founded by moderates who sought to participate in "measured" debates with decorum and a fixation on 'political correctness'.
quote: America was founded by people who wanted to be free from the oppressiveness of the left, which in that time was Great Britain.
quote: So if you're not on firmly planted on the right side of the political spectrum AND you find yourself agreeing more often than not that more government intervention in whatever is a "solution", then you are part of the problem.
quote: Just for sh1ts and giggles, please provide me with one example of anything that the left has put forth that has merit.
quote: Yes, someone who knows nothing about the topic feels the need to talk about it like he is somehow able to understand what "makes sense" and what does not.When does "government implementation" of anything make sense? What entity run by the government is better than its private sector counterpart?
quote: I notice that only thing you responded to was the allegation that you are a liberal...because you're one of those liberals who thinks calling themselves "moderate" makes their ideas less retarded.
quote: The reality is simple. America is a country built upon conservative principles BECAUSE THEY WORK, and on the occasions where they don't work as expected they allow us to quickly resolve the issues by working together. The left says let the government deal with everything outside of my space - as long as my comfort zone isn't hampered I'm fine being complacent and docile.
quote: Um, the founding fathers were the liberals of their time. They proposed a system of government far to the left of the British, and were considered radicals and extremists. Conservative in thier day and age was to submit to royal authority, they countered that with a leftist position of rule by the people with no royalty.
quote: Your definition of left and right is a bit out of whack. More than a bit.
quote: Thanks to Social Security he has been able to stop work as of two years ago and thanks to Medicare he has proper medical care as well. Without those two programs he would be in deep trouble right now. Regardless of your personal opinion of what constitutes 'merit' mine is that those two have done very well for those who need them.
quote: Franklin was about as liberal as you can possibly imagine, both socially and fiscally, and he imported the concept of insurance to the US. Washington was the moderate of his time, taking aspects of the points of view of the others and crafting a balance.There was no singular position.
quote: Public transportation. Even when you factor in the public subsidies public transportation in most areas is significantly cheaper than private alternatives. Roads is another one. Pretty much any and all infrastructure. Education. I know some will disagree with that, and in some areas they will be right.
quote: Grew up in a household that listened to Rush at dinner. Raised ultra conservative, and lived that way till my mid-20's. Met real people. Saw real problems. Started participating in the political process. Reality is that no singular philosophy solves all issues. Hence I am now a moderate. Reality tends to have that effect.
quote: America is a country built on the idea that the government serves the people, rather than the people serving a king. Nothing more, nothing less. We have the right to demand more, or less, of our government. Neither answer is inherently right or wrong.
quote: Is that what MSNBC told you? LOLBritain was a monarchy - one person had all the power - that''s extreme left and you can''t get further left than that, bro. Seems like you don''t even know where you stand.The founders of America were definitely on the right; although not the extreme right (anarchists). Actually, there were people among the colonists who would subscribe to anarchy - which is basically no government at all, but that wasn''t the most popular view.
quote: Not at all. All big government falls on the left. You''re obviously not very capable of learning on your own and you seem to be relying on lamestream media portrayals.Left = dictatorshipLeft = Nazi GermanyLeft = USSRLeft = ChinaLeft = Most of Europe for most of historyRight = USA circa 1776 up to early 1900s or soCenter-Right = USA around 1940s to 1960sCenter-Left = USA around 1960-1980The USA has slinked towards the left in recent years and that''s a bad thing for everyone.
quote: You mean to tell me that he needed the government to withhold some money from money from his paycheck so he could get it paid back to him when he retired, as opposed to him putting his own money into a savings account and doing that himself?
quote: Social security is a total farce that needs to go away. In one year it pays out more than most people pay into it their entire working lives. It''s a ponzi scheme plain and simple, and instead of relying on SS, learn to do what you should be doing on your own to save for your retirement.
quote: Yes, in a republic where the government is elected by the people for the people, debate is a critical element of its function...but history shows that they all agreed that a big, bloated government with absolute power WAS NOT the way to go. Ergo they all agreed that the ideal government will always be well right of center, because once it crosses that threshold to the left it''s no longer a republic.
quote: Franklin was not a liberal any more than water is dry. "A penny saved is a penny earned." Hmm, if he was liberal he would have said "A penny saved is a sign that taxes are too low."
quote: Sounds like 2012 all over again. Who built those roads? The government or the citizens and pioneers who risked their own skin to move westward and colonize the rest of America.You do realize that it was individuals, not government, that expanded America into what it is today. Towns and encampments were started by people who wanted to explore and find new opportunities.
quote: It''s funny that you believe the propaganda of the left is somehow a suitable basis for making an argument in support of big government.
quote: Furthermore, I told you to show me an example of something the government does better than its private sector counterpart. You''ve failed to provide any such examples because there are none.
quote: And how does being conservative preclude you from helping people with their problems if you''re feeling so benevolent?It doesn''t...unless you''re expecting to "solve" problems by expecting to use other peoples'' money.
quote: Sorry to say that the people should learn to be responsible for themselves. It''s not society''s job to pull the weight of losers who can''t or won''t pull their own weight.
quote: It sounds like you opted for the rubber spine to "fit in" with the gullible douche-bags that inhabit most college campuses. Good job. You''re a moderate. Nothing you say matters.
quote: You really don''t get it. The country is no longer a republic IF IT IS NOT ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE OR IF THE PEOPLE ARE UNWILLING TO HOLD IT ACCOUNTABLE.If the country ceases to be a republic, it ceases to serve the people and the roles reverse - it serves itself at the expense of the people.
quote: We have BOTH of those problems in America, where half the country consists of people who don''t give a fcuk about anything as long as they get their food stamps and welfare check, while the ones who do want to move away from the oppressively huge bureaucracy aren''t constantly given the run-around because there is no person to hold accountable.
quote: Take a look at DC. Go there. Tell me why DC is the lap of luxury with a ''booming'' economy that ignored the 2008 recession while the rest of the country got shafted?
quote: You can make all the demands you want. It won''t change anything. To maintain the freedom and liberty that America was founded upon is going to require action on the part of the people.
quote: Yes, he did. He never made enough money in his career to handle the costs of early onset Alzheimer''s. Few people do, it is an extremely expensive disease.
quote: After nearly two decades in construction his pension was only $216/month, and while he made ends meet his whole life ... especially not one complicated by a debilitating disease that prevents him from working or even caring properly for himself.
quote: His situation is not unique. Millions end up in a situation like his, through no real fault of their own.
quote: SS does not meat the literal or technical definition of a Ponzi scheme. I know that is a common claim, but it is factually inaccurate. And yes it pays out more, it is designed that way. Current workers pay for retired workers. Its a very smart design that will hit interesting limits should population level off or decline, but even then it is fairly easy to manage. It was a great idea.
quote: Not true, and you can read their debates for more. Not sure what to tell you, but Madison certainly did not believe in small government. Neither did Franklin, for that matter.
quote: Strawmen do not make your point.
quote: I don''t support big government. I support government that is enough to meet the needs of its citizenry. What those needs are is open to debate.
quote: No, you chose to disregard the examples I gave. Thats your choice, but you haven''t proven anything yet. I''ll toss on a couple more: The FAA. The FDA.
quote: Most people are responsible for themselves. Lots of people encounter situations that they could not have prepared for however. Others have empathy for those who are not capable of caring fully for themselves.
quote: I never went to college. Also never cared about fitting in. Sorry I do not fit your stereotype. Everything I say matters just as much as everything you say.
quote: Was just there in March. Not sure what your talking about. DC is a mess once you leave the central part. Ignoring the center, its probably the second crappiest city I''ve visited after San Antonio.
quote: We just held elections. The majority voted in favor of the direction we are going. I am sorry you dislike that direction, but it is up to you to make your case to convince people otherwise. This is how democracy works, not everyone gets everything they want.
quote: Why do you assume that people not agreeing with you means they don''t care? Seems a rather large leap.
quote: I''m not making any demands. People are taking action. Just not the actions you want. Again, welcome to democracy.
quote: Monarchies are not inherently left nor right. Furthermore, Britain was a parlimentarian system, even in 1776. The king had power, and indeed part of the problem with George the third was his attempts to restore more power to the throne, but what kept him in check was the Parliament.
quote: I''m not certain how you feel it was a right wing view, by definition ''conservative'' is an adherence to tradition, and at the time of the Revolution the tradition was monarchy.
quote: Right = Saddam''s IraqRight = Putin''s RussiaRight = IranRight = Saudi Arabia
quote: Authoritarinism has nothing to do with right or left leaning policies. Furthermore, economic systems are not inherently left or right, you mention the National Socialists(NAZI) but Hitler was extreme right leaning in almost all social and military aspects.
quote: And it is your opinion that a tilt to the left is a bad thing for the USA. I look at rising lifespans, greater economic opportunities, rising wealth and a much higher quality of life and it seems to fly in the face of a claim that the US is declining due to any perceived leftward tilt.
quote: It's not society's job to pay for his treatment - that's your family's job and responsibility. Short of that, turn to charity.
quote: Given that you cannot reply without constant insults, and you seem to believe you have a right to your own facts rather than only a right to your own opinion, I am not going to bother to respond to this mess.
quote: No.Period. And anyone who tries to change this I will oppose. This is basic human decency. This kind of thinking is a war against the people who built this country. My father worked in construction his whole life because he wanted to be one of those people you talk about as making America great. Unfortunately that kind of work has a great toll, especially physically. Combined with unlucky genetics, he is in a situation that would cost me more than a hundred grand a year. That burden is too great for me, even at my income level, and it is certainly nothing he could have ever prepared for.
quote: Society can afford to take care of situations like this. Otherwise there is no point to a society at all.
quote: I would say that I am sorry that the country is not going in the direction you would prefer, but I'm really not. The nation you would like would cripple me financially and penalize people like my father who built the things you get to enjoy every day.
quote: quote: Farmers would farm to meet demand for the area they serve. They would not expend more resources to farm crops they they would not be able to sell at a profit. Which infers that there would never be an oversupply.
quote: Farmers would farm to meet demand for the area they serve. They would not expend more resources to farm crops they they would not be able to sell at a profit.
quote: quote: Subsidies were enacted in a time when the price of certain crops - particularly corn - was cheaper than the cost to grow it. Which infers an oversupply, which according to the above can not happen, because farmers are thr masters of the free market and will account for ever market factor that affects the price of their goods.
quote: The point of the subsidies is to keep the cost of goods stable. Nothing more and nothing less. Too much production buts farmers out of business, to little leads to price spikes. Neither is good for the economy.Or in other words: The net cost of the farm subsidies is less then the long term effect of getting rid of them.