quote: In the Server OS marketplace-- VMS, Open-VMS, MVS, AIX, Solaris, MXS, HP-UX, Netware, OpenServer, IRIX, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and a thousand different varieties of Linux. And countless others I didn't name.
quote: Difted into Socialism? The EU? LMAO YOu got to be jocking.
quote: If by "people don't want to work", you mean that several EU countries have something like the lowest unemployment rate in the world. Much much lower than the US, then you are also correct.
quote: Unless I'm mistaken, the US population is declining too
quote: With more countries joining, it is already, and has been for some time, the largest trading block in the world with a higher GDP than any single country.
quote: The quality of life in many European Union countries are considered to be better than anywhere else in the world.
quote: no it cant be calculated accuratly. Especially with countries as large as the US. Please get real and stop simply opposing what I say
quote: man, i give up. where do you live? The EU has its common currency since 2001
quote: What do you think the euro is then?
quote: The EU is a trading block, thats the whole idea behind it.
quote: Do you live in the EU, as a matter of interest?
quote: No it occurs to me that you have been debating the facts that you have been told. These arent necersarily true.
quote: Of course capitalism is a fast way to success, but american is the bad example to what it may lead.
quote: The EU just does efforts to make the market fair.
quote: There are other Unions, outside your country, like said underneath, which have probably higher life-standards and surely higher moral-standards than the US
quote: Been able to interact with so many different cultures and mentalities is a gift the United States doesn't have. The others only interact with them because its about money
quote: I've told you what the reasons are, and thats to reduce barriers to entry in this particular market. There are too many countries in the EU with different interests for it to be anything other than this.
quote: I have been to see the European parliament in action, i have talked to M.E.Ps, they are most certainly not fatcats out to get US companies.
quote: correct me if i'm wrong, but this is about making programs to run on windows. Not rival operating systems.
quote: i feel sorry for people who think like this, really i do. Do you even know what an MEP is? They represent a number of different parties NOT a country. Indeed they are seated according to political belief and NOT by country. They represent what their party stands for NOT a country.
quote: TomZ: Are you saying Microsoft has a monopoly in writing apps that run on Windoww?
Merry: I wasn't saying that they were.
quote: now i'm being a prune and linked the wrong thing
i think this guy pretty much says what i would given your response.
quote: then theres a good few hundred others to vote against them, from all political persuasions and countries.
Microsoft provided its own internal documentation-- the EU called it unsufficient. Microsoft offered the full source code for the APIs...the EU still said its not enough. Right now the EU is hinting they may require Microsoft to train its competitors on how to best build products to compete with them.
quote: Barrett calls the preexisting documentation incomplete, not detailed enough, and poorly organized.
quote: since the EC is a governmental body it has a valid cause, since it only executes the rules - in this case the antitrust rules.
quote: Faced with a series of tough deadlines, one group on Microsoft Corp.'s Redmond campus has been working until all hours...The ad hoc team of 300 people is creating volumes of technical documents required by the European Commission....one of the project leaders, engineer Henry Sanders, [decided] to swear off shaving until the effort is complete, like an athlete in the playoffs...
Whether or not the threat of a fine played a role, the situation appeared to improve after the commission's March warning. Microsoft's Smith credits a meeting in late March where the trustee, computer science professor Neil Barrett, clarified the requirements for the documents .
After that, the company brought in veteran engineers to help meet an aggressive series of deadlines Barrett laid out. Microsoft says it also brought back retired employees and pulled people from products including Windows Vista, to work on the European Union initiative...
quote: and its a well known secret that not all ins and outs of the APIs have been documented by MS.(I think a link to a page documenting the "unofficial" API-features was somwhere posted in an earlier comment).
quote: Primarily it was because a) Microsoft actually had a monopoly in the desktop market, unlike the server market the EU action is addressing
quote: As has already been pointed out, in the server arena Microsoft isn't a monopoly.
quote: Then you don't know. Their original demand was for "all internal documentation and information".
quote: The EU is demanding "full disclosure" on APIs in the server marketplace...a market in which Microsoft isn't even a monopoly.
quote: Microsoft provided its own internal documentation-- the EU called it unsufficient.
quote: Thousands of third-party server products do that today. They run on Microsoft OSes...and run just as well if not better than do Microsoft's own products.
quote: Microsoft provided all documentation it had, along with the source code. This was enough for Microsoft to build its own server products with...why is it not enough for a third party?
quote: After all, if you have the source code, you know *everything* a product can do...there can be nothing missing or left out.
quote: When the subject is so complex that it took the EU two YEARS to even clearly formulate their own demands, then they should give Microsoft a reasonable amount of time to obey.
quote: I believe you're referring to CS Professor Neil Barrett, who was *not* hired by Microsoft. Barrett was hired by the EU.
quote: Microsoft then offered the source code as well.
quote: And for those nimwits who claim the EU wasn't demanding source code:
"In December 2004, Microsoft lost a legal bid to stop antitrust sanctions while it was appealing the ruling that obliged it to share communications code with rivals, ..."
quote: Untrue, unless you're claiming the API's used by Active Directory, the one used to communicate between Outlook and Exchange, and similar are not "Windows" APIs.
quote: As has already been demonstrated in exhaustive detail, the original EU demand was not for Microsoft to produce massie amounts of new documentation, but rather to disclose what it itself knew of these protocols...its own documentation.
quote: Therein began a long battle to force Microsoft to cough up source code
quote: Having the full complete source code to all these APIs, along with every single page of relevant documentation Microsoft itself possessed, they then choose to claim this was "not enough" to allow competitors to develop competing products.
quote: On the contrary. I already posted links to the specific court sessions that dealt with this issue, and with the EU's "redefining" the server market in order to show Microsoft with a majority share.
quote: Once again-- a false claim. The original text of the request was "full and complete disclosure".
quote: Even if you're Microsoft, you still have the right to appeal the EC's decisions
quote: The EC has NEVER before fined a company for not complying with an order quickly enough.
quote: And they've never fined any firm anywhere near as much as they have Microsoft
quote: even when found to be in criminal violation of the antitrust laws (something Microsoft isn't even accused of here).
quote: I don't know if it applies, but shouldn't apple be fined for not letting other computers having their Mac OS x86?
quote: You can already install X on a PC if you are creative ;) google will tell you more.
quote: Microsoft is slated to deliver Friday the sixth of seven installments of the required protocol documentation to the EC-appointed antitrust-oversight trustee.
quote: The Microsoft-EU case will heat up during the next few weeks, starting on June 30, when Microsoft is set to deliver more of the networking-protocol information the European Commission....
Microsoft is slated to deliver the sixth of seven installments of the required protocol documentation to the EC-appointed antitrust-oversight trustee...
quote: Kroes added that she hoped the latest technical documentation being delivered by Microsoft would finally bring the company into compliance , "and that further penalty payments will not prove necessary.”
...Microsoft has already delivered six of seven installments of the crucial technical documents, and another is due Tuesday...
quote: Thats Poli Sci 101, buddy, you should go back to school.
quote: Microsoft said it has a team of 300 people working full-time on a framework to supply the information. Six of seven installments have already been delivered...
Last week, the Financial Times reported that the EU would make a final decision to fine Microsoft on July 12...The commission refused to confirm this date.
The EU has never before fined a company for failing to obey an earlier order...
quote: In December 2004, Microsoft lost a legal bid to stop antitrust sanctions while it was appealing the ruling that obliged it to share communications code with rivals , offer a version of Windows without Media Player software and pay a record 497 million euro ($613 million) fine...
quote: Microsoft on Wednesday attacked the most contentious part of the European Commission's 2004 antitrust ruling against it -- the decision to force the company to share details of server source code .
...The 2004 ruling ordered the company to open up source code for server communications protocols to rivals, in order to allow them to build server programs that work as smoothly with Windows as Microsoft's own software...
quote: BRUSSELS, Belgium - The European Union’s antitrust chief says Microsoft cannot charge licensing fees for software blueprints that it is offering to share with competitors unless it can prove the computer code is innovative...
quote: David Evans, an economics professor at University College...took issue with the Commission's definition of the server market. The workgroup server market was worth $5.9 billion in 2004, while the whole market for servers of all kinds was worth $53 billion...
Microsoft had a 72 percent share of the narrower market, but only a 33 percent share of the whole market, according to figures cited in Evans' presentation. By focusing on the narrower market the Commission was making "a gross overstatement of Microsoft's market share,".
quote: In other words, the EU commission created a new market category, "workgroup servers", defined it to maximize Microsoft market share, then declared its slightly-less than 3/4 share as proof of monopoly.
quote: i know many mac owners. I have never heard them complain about crashes.
quote: I have been following EC vs. MS case of DT pages for a long time. I have been actively participating too. My background is in economics, management, and finance. I hold 2 bachelors and a masters degree. I consider myself a technology enthusiast and have software development skills/competencies. How does one contradicts the other? What is your point?
quote: I dont think he makes one, he just draws simple conclusions from proposterous analogies and oversimplifys the arguement.
quote: The EU is not doing this for money, it is for a free market! Here in the EU the idea of free market is uch more enforced than in the USA.