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  (Source: AP)
But Ballmer says improvements, including a new Surface and a new Metro Start Button, will win customers back

At a quarterly all-hands type meeting, Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) boisterous and ebullient CEO Steve Ballmer was more sedate than usual.  While he raved about the upcoming next generation Surface tablet -- which was garnering rave reviews internally -- he also reportedly owned up to an unpleasant fact that Windows 8 isn't selling well.

The news -- which was pretty much a known fact to analysts and tech enthusiasts already -- came shortly after Microsoft's major leadership shakeup, in which it put the people in charge of Windows 8 (Julie Larson-Green, Tami Reller) in charge of key leadership positions over the entire company.

Revenue for the Windows unit dropped 55 percent (-$1.3B USD) in the second calendar quarter of the year (Microsoft's fiscal Q4 2013).  After beating street expectations the previous quarter, Microsoft saw its efforts unravel badly with sales of both Windows and the embattled first generation Surface sinking to Vista-like levels of market apathy.

Steve Ballmer
Windows 8 is turning into a nightmare for CEO Steve Ballmer. [Image Source: AP]

Microsoft and Mr. Ballmer came under fire from some of their major partners.  Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (KSC:005930) blamed Microsoft for drooping PC (and by proxy semiconductor component) sales.  Jun Dong-soo, head of the memory chip unit who sells DRAM and NAND to PC makers, called Windows 8 "less competitive" and complained, "[It is] no better than the previous Windows Vista platform."

Those are pretty harsh words coming from a major partner.

At the meeting Mr. Ballmer tried to convince employees that the free Windows 8.1 update would make up for the flop of its predecessor.  He pointed to the return of a "Start Button" (although it's not the Start Button you used to know) and the use of telemetry data to improve weak spots in Windows 8 as critical keys to the turnaround.  He also discussed increasing spending on professional services (consulting), although the leaks from the meeting made it unclear whether Microsoft is looking to recruit outside consultation for itself or make money off providing it to others.

Windows 8.1 Preview
Ballmer thinks a new Metro Start Button will thrill Windows fans back to the ranks.
 
In the second calendar quarter Google Inc. (GOOG) ChromeBooks gained major ground on Windows PCs, establishing a beachhead of approximately 4-5 percent of total personal computer sales, and a quarter of <$300 USD personal computer sales.  Some OEMs such as Samsung and Acer, Inc. (TPE:2357) (another prominent critics of Windows 8) have turned to Chromebook offerings, and may be eyeing dumping Microsoft entirely, shoudl consumers continue embracing Google's offerings and rejecting Microsoft's.

Microsoft can take some solace in that Apple, Inc. (AAPL) saw sales of its Mac computers miss expectations, leaving Google the only clear winner in the PC market for the quarter.

Source: NeoWin



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MS just doesn't get it...
By Riusaki on 7/25/2013 3:16:44 PM , Rating: 4
I've followed MS since the days of Windows 95 and man how the mighty have fallen.

Microsoft needs to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and just do what they do best: Make a dominant OS. Who cares if Windows functions the same way as it did 15 years ago? People like it and most importantly IT WORKS! Stop trying to be Apple. Stop trying to innovate things that you know will do more harm just for the sake of innovation.

The way things are looking, Windows 7 will be the last Microsoft OS I use unless they admit W8 was a failure and bring it back to in line with how 7 is.

And don't get me started on the Xbox One. Let me just say that I have retired my 360 for PC Gaming.

Microsoft just please stop and think for once. Something they haven't done in a long time.

P.S. Fire Ballmer too.




RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By amanojaku on 7/25/2013 3:22:15 PM , Rating: 5
If you stop using Windows, then what OS are you planning on using for PC gaming? Linux and OS X's gaming libraries don't even compare to Windows. I know people love Steam, but it's limited, too.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By karimtemple on 7/25/2013 3:46:20 PM , Rating: 5
Steam is on Linux. OpenGL is improving and increasing in use. CryEngine 3 is being ported to Linux.

Windows is being backed into a corner. It's not looking good at all.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By UnauthorisedAccess on 7/25/2013 7:23:39 PM , Rating: 3
Regarding Steam on Linux, of my collection of 40+ steam games, 20 come up as Linux installable (you need to run steam on Linux, it'll only show you what you can install).

Pretty much all the valve stuff and indie titles though. Linux compatibility IS something that I was looking at during the steam sales though big name games are all still Windows (and sometimes Windows+Mac) only.

As soon as I can get off my requirement of needing Windows for gaming, it'll like in a VM inside my favourite Linux distro. Note that I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By ResStellarum on 7/25/2013 7:42:49 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
As soon as I can get off my requirement of needing Windows for gaming, it'll like in a VM inside my favourite Linux distro. Note that I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.


Once GNU/Linux steam boxes get going the major titles will flock to the platform, and then desktop Linux will automatically get the content.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By StevoLincolnite on 7/25/13, Rating: -1
RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By NAVAIR on 7/26/13, Rating: -1
By StevoLincolnite on 7/26/2013 7:37:21 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not worried about being voted down, this website is more of a popularity contest when it comes to rating people anyway.

I.E. "Not worth Reading and Worth Reading" more or less means "I Disagree and I Agree" to some.

WINE though has surprisingly good compatibility with allot of Winows games, it's not perfect, but I doubt anyone who walks into Linux expects it to be.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By Darkk on 7/26/2013 1:20:17 AM , Rating: 2
As we all know Windows 8 is another Vista. Maybe Windows 9 they will get it right.

Meanwhile, I will be moving towards Linux as my primary desktop and looking into using Wine or commercial product called CrossOver.

Over time we will see more and more native Linux games and apps to the point we won't need anything windows emulated.

Linux is great as a server platform but some headaches are starting to happen with the desktop. I see new desktop environments coming around such as Gnome 3, XFCE, KDE and few others. For awhile I was using Gnome 2 and it was great. Then came around Gnome 3 which is a huge change. While it works but just not the same as Gnome 3. Lucky there is Linux Mint that is based on forked version of Gnome 2.

As you can see there are alot of customization you can do with Linux but issue is desktop there is no real set standard like Windows. So some programs may or may not work right for a particular desktop environment.

So it's a bit of a headache for Linux programmers. This fragmentation needs to stop.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By FITCamaro on 7/28/2013 10:25:29 PM , Rating: 3
Vista was unpopular because it was slow. Windows 8 definitely is not. People just don't like change. There are Mac guys at my office that love Windows 8. Just classic Windows users don't like the changes.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By marvdmartian on 7/29/2013 9:37:20 AM , Rating: 2
I think you're close, on your statement. But it should have been "people don't like RADICAL change". And that, most definitely, is what Windows 8 was, in a big way.

Vista wasn't so much slow, as it was a memory hog....which most OEM's didn't realize at first, and which MS didn't help either, by issuing extraordinarily low "minimum specs" for that OS. That's why you saw computer companies, like Compaq, putting out PC's with 1.3 GHz cpu's and 512mb of PC-133 ram, with Vista on them (and yes, I did have to work on one of those).

Windows 8 is a radical change from what people have known in the past, it was set up primarily to be used on touch screen computers (even though most PC's and laptops didn't offer those, when it first came out), and was geared more toward tablet and phone use....but was shoved down everyone's throat by MS, as they forced OEM's to put it on all their new products (as they have every other new version of Windows that has come out).

Thanks, but I'll stick with Windows 7, for the forseeable future.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By maugrimtr on 7/30/2013 10:16:24 AM , Rating: 1
Steam is also on Mac OS...

Game companies primarily target PCs as a fact of life. PCs have a large market share. If Macs and Linux take more dominant positions than GPU makers will follow suit with better drivers. That's the catch. CPUs are the same everywhere now so only the GPUs drivers and OS interfaces hold up gaming.

Also, a lot of Kickstarter games are targeting Linux, Mac and PC with engines capable of multiple platform support.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By Paj on 8/2/2013 9:02:58 AM , Rating: 2
Linux is great for technically minded people. But for your average parent or small business useruser, it would be a bewildering option for them. There are too many distros, too much CLI, and not enough software.

This is the market that Linux needs to capture if it to have any chance of becoming dominant over Windows, and it's a long, long way from reaching that state.

MS has made missteps before - Windows ME was a terrible OS. Apple has also made many terrible products in the past. Windows isnt going anywhere soon.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By ResStellarum on 7/25/2013 7:52:59 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
If you stop using Windows, then what OS are you planning on using for PC gaming?


Most games these days are targeting the OpenGL API's. All of mobile (Android/iOS), OS X, GNU/Linux, and many others. There's really no reason to develop exclusively for Windows / DirectX any more.

Steam on OSX / Linux is getting better and better, and once the steambox type devices get going, all games will target Linux and OpenGL by default.

Microsoft is in real trouble. Everyone's abandoning their platform at light speed.

Just look at the new Ubuntu Edge phone. That beast is a phone and a desktop PC all in one.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By ie5x on 7/26/2013 4:52:33 AM , Rating: 5
I think he intends to stick with Windows 7.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By Reclaimer77 on 7/25/2013 3:33:45 PM , Rating: 3
Exactly.

Microsoft was so clearly on the right path with Windows 7. It was the most dominating OS they've ever had. Almost flawless in what people want and need in a desktop OS. For personal use AND work.

Microsoft is a company and as such, I see nothing wrong with trying to make more profits. But Windows 8 was such a horrible attempt to monetize an OS Apple-style, that there's no way it should have been released as-is.

Touch UI's and App Stores and what-not are all fine and good. But they don't belong on a desktop Windows OS. There's a reason why the iPhone runs iOS and not OSX, or visa versa.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By Riusaki on 7/25/13, Rating: 0
RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By NAVAIR on 7/26/2013 12:42:27 PM , Rating: 2
iOS and OSX are a GUI on Darwin on Unix much like KDE and Gnome on Linux. The guts are still the same.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By kleinma on 7/25/13, Rating: -1
RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By inighthawki on 7/25/2013 4:09:15 PM , Rating: 2
I want to see metro apps behave just like desktop apps. There should be nothing special about the window that each is displayed in except metro apps should be "capable" of going fullscreen, as opposed to "always" being fullscreen.

The other change I would love to see is for the new UI interface code to allow resource themes other than metro. The composition and graphics available in metro apps is far beyond what is available in GDI on the desktop, but even in a window, these apps would look odd and out of place with their metroish theme. The user should be able to add user controls such as buttons, check boxes, and lists that appear indistinguishable from desktop controls, but all run on top of the new and improved code.

I should be able to make an GUI based app entirely in win32 and one based on XAML and have the two appear identical side by side.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By domboy on 7/26/2013 8:28:38 AM , Rating: 2
I agree... my biggest problem with modern ui is that not everything should be a full screen app. It's even more apparent the larger the screen. Snap might be an ok way to have two apps running on a small screen, but again, it's not a good replacement for windows. Update WinRT to be able to run on the desktop. Make more tweaks or options to make the desktop more touch friendly or perhaps a create touch mode you can toggle like they do with Office 2013/RT.

While we're at it, unlock the desktop on ARM devices. That is such a backwards and frustrating decision. As nice a device as the Surface RT is, I won't recommend it to anyone just because of this.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By piroroadkill on 7/26/2013 10:24:10 AM , Rating: 2
What you want is Stardock's ModernMix.

It exists. Microsoft can give you the product you and everyone else wants.

Stardock already did it, with Start8 and ModernMix.

However, Microsoft simply doesn't give a single shit. They're trying to be Apple, which was always "my way or the highway".


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By acer905 on 7/26/2013 12:48:07 PM , Rating: 2
One system I can see would be to have a gesture-like method to scale the "size" of the metro app. A two-finger pinch zooms in and out on the app, why not have a three-finger pinch stretch the size of the app. Then just use the Win7 system of remembering the size of an app the last time it was closed so that it opens the same size. And, let the same gesture control Win32 programs as well.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By robinthakur on 7/29/2013 6:47:45 AM , Rating: 2
I think that (one of) the big problem with Windows 8 is that you have apps which behave differently on desktop, compared to the modern interface. Having two versions of IE, Lync etc is really dumb and difficult to explain to end users, what the difference is and why it matters. iPad doesn't have two versions of Safari. If I have my full screen MS Lync running at the same time as my desktop app Lync, the results aren't pretty.

There are also apps which could never hope to run as full screen full touch apps, like Visual Studio, and I do think that touch screen apps need to be considered differently in terms of their design, so hmm, Microsoft have pushed themselves down a very tricky road here...When I'm using a touch screen Windows 8 tablet and am in desktop mode, its all a bit painful to use: the keyboard doesn't pop up whenever you need to use it, and some webpages and apps just don't work correctly (like Chrome).

I don't see why it is isn't possible to just have profiles saying what sort of device you are using, like in Media Centre setup and Windows just gets customised for your install. That would be a one size fits all approach which works and would seem to keep a lot of people happy! Windows 8 contains lots of cool technology like Hyper-V on the desktop and the improved copying, global search etc. so it is a real shame that it is the Modern UI which has sunk the ship and stopped people appreciating the hard work which has obviously gone into it!

On a slightly selfish note, I hope MS does not go down because my business is SharePoint, and there is the risk that people will start to turn away from Microsoft entirely. I already find that what would have been laughable options 5 years ago such as Google enterprise apps and OSX/iOS in the workplace are taken seriously now, simply because MS have shown such poor judgement of late in some of their most highly publicised products, and people had managed for so long in an increasingly mobile device-centric business world without access to MS Office or Windows, that it has got them thinking. On the server end, MS is clearly moving towards the Cloud services model for most of its products rather than on premise, and there, MS Azure is having to complete heavily with Google and Amazon. It's going to be interesting...


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By JPForums on 7/26/2013 8:00:04 AM , Rating: 2
It is funny how many posts I've read that criticize Microsoft for trying to be like Apple, and then go on to use Apple as an example of the way it should be done. At least your points make some sense.

I do disagree on one account, though. While Windows 7 was and still is the best desktop OS for both personal and professional use, there is an increasing number of people leaning towards convergence devices that Windows 7 is ill suited to handle. Many people who buy a tablet start questioning their need for a desktop/laptop computer. I've even seen a few dump their desktop/laptop only to buy another several months down the road, when they realize that traditional tablets aren't well suited for productive use. While I don't think everyone will end up there, I do think convergence devices will occupy a not-so-insignificant portion of the market once they are executed well enough.

I still think an auto mode switcher that gives you a traditional desktop environment while docked and a tablet environment while on the go would be ideal. Obviously, I'd want access to either at any given time, but the ability to choose which interface I default to in any given situation would make things much simpler.

Also, I see no reason why applications should be divided by metro and non-metro. This is an arbitrary distinction that only serves to get in the way of the seamless crossover that a convergence device is trying to accomplish.

In short, Windows 7 is great for today's computing environment, but not necessarily for tomorrow's. Windows 8 is a forward looking OS, but still leaves some things to be desired, especially in today's computing environment.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By Moishe on 7/26/2013 5:04:29 PM , Rating: 2
You're right.

on the other hand, new profit streams usually come from risk... so it makes sense that they'd try something new.

They should have made a new mobile OS that would be good for tablets, and a new desktop OS that had all of the underlying performance improvements of Win 8 but still had the basic usability in the Win 7 design.

I hate to say it, but it seems a bit like flailing. Apple seems to really think things through before making a move. Apple seems to focus on one or two areas and then try to blow everyone else out of the water in those areas. I usually don't agree with Apple's concept of what is the most important, but at least they usually execute pretty well.

Microsoft needs to understand what makes Windows the dominant OS and enhance the whole experience without breaking the core reasons people use it. MS needs to stop and understand what they own and think about how to blow everyone else out of the water in a particular area. Maybe they did this with Win8.. but if they did, they're idiots because as well as metro works on a tablet, it blows on a desktop. They've made one set of customers happy at the expense of another set. That's just stupid.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By someguy743 on 7/25/2013 4:30:59 PM , Rating: 2
I think that Windows 8 is just fine ..... but only after you install "Start8" by Stardock on it and get the settings just the way you want them. Hopefully the new Windows 8.1 is not going to mess up "Start8".

I have it working pretty much like my old Windows 7 now. I use the Modern UI sometimes too. You might even start to like Modern UI after you mess around with it for awhile. It's like my "secondary Windows desktop" in order to use apps like on my smartphone.

90% of the time I'm using the good ole Windows 7 style desktop with this multi-desktop software called "Dexpot". It works fine for me. I use 7 different desktops for different types of work ... or play. It's the same way I have different projects sitting on different side desks and tables in my office at work.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By retrospooty on 7/25/2013 4:44:09 PM , Rating: 2
"I think that Windows 8 is just fine ..... but only after you install "Start8" by Stardock on it and get the settings just the way you want them. Hopefully the new Windows 8.1 is not going to mess up "Start8"."

Get classic shell... Its better than start8 and free.

http://download.cnet.com/Classic-Shell/3000-2072_4...


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By cditty on 7/25/2013 5:18:41 PM , Rating: 3
I disagree. Classic Shell updates too often and gets in the way. Start8 just works.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By retrospooty on 7/25/2013 5:45:14 PM , Rating: 2
I dunno. I have never seen it not work, nor have I had a single issue with it, updates or otherwise.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By ResStellarum on 7/25/2013 8:09:07 PM , Rating: 5
Using classic shell here too. Works like a charm, and the only thing that makes Windows 8 bearable.

When a third party addon is required to make an OS usable, there's a serious problem.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By JPForums on 7/26/2013 7:27:07 AM , Rating: 2
You know, Microsoft could easily monetize the start menu and make people happy at the same time. They could simply create an official Microsoft start menu and release it at a low price. I'm willing to wager that the people that really want it will be happy enough just to get it that they won't mind the charge. People that don't care, won't buy it. People who already bought third party software could just stick with it unless they had a compelling reason to switch. Of course, it would go over better if Microsoft released it as part of a suite that includes official multi-desktop support, and other niceties.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By tayb on 7/25/2013 6:10:38 PM , Rating: 1
Windows 8 is a great OS. In almost every way it is superior to Windows 7. It's faster, has more features that people want, boots faster, just in general is a superior OS.

The mistake Microsoft made is they tried to make an OS that would work well on a tablet and with a keyboard mouse. Instead of having separate UIs that a user could switch between they tried to meet in the middle and come up with a single interface that would work for both. No such interface exists or will ever exist. There is nothing that can be designed that works well with a mouse and with a finger. It's a failed idea from the start.

The fix for Windows 8 is simple. Separate the UIs and allow detection of input method and automatic or manual switching. In the desktop you don't see Metro and in Metro you don't see the desktop... unless you want to. If you have a Surface Pro and you dock it... Desktop. If you undock it... Metro. Simple

There are tons of improvements in Windows 8 that I love and if Microsoft would stop being so stupid they could actually gain market share and get more developer support. With Haswell the Surface Pro could be a really awesome device... if they let it.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By wacawaca on 7/26/2013 3:31:22 PM , Rating: 2
I wish this was the way it worked, i mean seriously i have seen it suggested many times, why does Microsoft not listen to the people that use the software, why don't they browse the comments section about their software to see what people want, I am sure that the one simple change as you stated would make most if not all happy. And then they can start adding different things to the different GUI's maybe add something to the touch interface that would be a waste in the mouse interface, and visa verse. Come on Microsoft stop being anal and start listening to some of the great and clever ideas like the one above.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By damianrobertjones on 7/25/13, Rating: 0
By TakinYourPoints on 7/25/2013 9:23:09 PM , Rating: 5
Yes, they need to stop trying to invent the wheel. :)


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By Tony Swash on 7/25/13, Rating: -1
RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By retrospooty on 7/25/2013 6:57:31 PM , Rating: 3
But... based on web traffic Windows IS the dominant OS by a massive longshot. Windows gets over 80% and all others combined are sharing less than 20%.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-market-share.as...

I am confused ??? I thought web traffic was the measure of a platforms success? I am sure I have seen you mention that at least a couple dozen times... :P


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By Tony Swash on 7/26/13, Rating: -1
RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By retrospooty on 7/26/2013 7:27:28 PM , Rating: 2
BS Tony. Complete and utter BS.

You might as well come out and say "information is only important when it proves my points. When it proves your points it isn't relevant"

That is just pure bassackwards fanboy logic failure... MS is still the worlds most dominant OS by a long shot. Web traffic beats all other plartforms, including mac, ios, android, linux and all others combined by a 5 to 1 margin. The whole world runs off it. When the day comes where they can make a Mac, iPhone, iPad, or iPod without the entire factory and supply chain running off Windows then call me.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By drycrust3 on 7/27/2013 5:40:00 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
MS is still the worlds most dominant OS by a long shot.

If you look carefully at that graph, you will notice a trend that almost every commentor has either stated or hinted at: desktop operating systems are declining, mobile OSes are rising. The two desktop operating systems on the graph, "Windows" and "Mac", both declined over the time period covered. Not once, in the entire time frame, did the percentage of users of either of those OSes exceed the value they started with. On the other hand, Android and iOS both improved over the time frame.
The next point is "Windows" covers quite a range of operating systems, it could meaning anything from Windows 98 through to Windows 8. The fact is "Windows XP" (37%) is currently the second placed desktop OS, with Windows 7 (44%) being first. The importance of this is that 37% of users are using an OS that is famous for its insecurity and will soon not be supported by the manufacturer.
Since these are people where, at the very least, XP is adequate, and quite likely the hardware is also adequate, when they are forced to upgrade they will be looking for something that is a bit cheap that covers the basics such as browse the internet, read some newspapers and blogs, do some emails, stuff which doesn't require a high powered computer running the latest Windows OS. They are perfect targets for Android, iOS, and e-readers like Kindle.
Notice something there? None of those aren't made by Microsoft. Sure, Microsoft gets there cut, but that misses another important point: every time Microsoft get a patent licence fee that is a sale they didn't get, and that is a lost customer.
http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-mar...


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By retrospooty on 7/27/2013 10:39:39 PM , Rating: 2
Its not news or a surprise that windows is on a slow and steady decline. That changes the facts how exactly?


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By drycrust3 on 7/28/2013 12:41:17 PM , Rating: 2
The change is that the world has changed. The Microsoft that got to be number 1 isn't the Microsoft of today, and that is what Tony was talking about.
When Microsoft became Number 1 it was because they saw that a windows environment was the way to go and worked really hard to make better software than anyone else that worked in the windows environment OS they created.
Now, the management has changed from a company that sees the future and runs towards it, to one that wants to try and hold onto the past.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By retrospooty on 7/28/2013 4:56:00 PM , Rating: 2
I agree microsoft has made a lot of bad moves lately. They are declining. But they are still number one by a huge margin. It's going to take a long long time before that changes. The entire business world still runs on Microsoft. Like I said call me when they can make a single Mac iPod iPhone or iPad without the entire process running on PC. If anyone can do it Apple can, and they are not even close. The massive infrastructure just doesn't exist anywhere outside of Microsoft. there is Unix, Linux, and several companies that all do their own tiny little piece but no one else does the whole package. No one else has even started to attempt to think about making a try at it.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By TakinYourPoints on 7/25/2013 9:17:44 PM , Rating: 2
At least Apple has the good sense to completely segment their mobile and desktop operating systems. Other things like the OS X Menu Bar have gone mostly unchanged for almost 30 years. There's no reason for it to change, and the restart/shut down menus are where they should be, not hidden behind some charms BS. They design logically for the target hardware.

If something works, keep it. I have Windows 8 on a partition on my laptop and I still have zero desire to install it on my main PC desktop.

I don't know why Microsoft is trying to cram mobile and desktop together. What's happening now is the reverse of when they put a Start Menu on Windows Mobile and Pocket PC. That was also a terrible idea and the platform crashed and burned as well.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By retrospooty on 7/25/2013 11:47:20 PM , Rating: 2
"I don't know why Microsoft is trying to cram mobile and desktop together. What's happening now is the reverse of when they put a Start Menu on Windows Mobile and Pocket PC. That was also a terrible idea and the platform crashed and burned as well"

LOL , I totally forgot about that aweful UI from Winmobiles earlier days... It makes it even funnier. Its OK to make mistakes, everyone and every company does, but to fail to learn from them shows really poor leadership. It totally reminds me of Rimm and Palm.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By stimudent on 7/26/2013 10:27:06 AM , Rating: 1
Microsoft might want to bring back Windows ME for the PC and laptop segment. It might actually improve sales ;P


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By Strunf on 7/28/2013 1:26:52 PM , Rating: 2
Hell even Apple hasn't changed much the GUI of OS X.


RE: MS just doesn't get it...
By FITCamaro on 7/28/2013 10:24:24 PM , Rating: 2
There's a reason why Apple is still on OSX. Well other than that they don't have to innovate for their fanboys to keep buying. What they have works.

I like the backend changes in Windows 8 (other than getting rid of the true backup tool in exchange for a crappy snapshot tool). But yeah I don't need the front end. They could have just added that to Windows 7 for tablets and left the PC interface alone. I get that they see that touchscreen tablets are the computers of the future. But they jumped too soon.


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