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Leaf EV sales market is expanding

For a long time the big problem for Nissan and many electric vehicle makers was the fact that electric vehicles simply weren't popular due to high pricing, range anxiety or any variety of other reasons. Nissan is now fighting the opposite problem with demand surging in new markets without the inventory to satisfy interested consumers.

Nissan director of electric vehicle sales Erik Gottfried says that he recently flew to Texas to meet with dealers that are clamoring for more Leaf electric vehicles.

"They really want more Leafs in Dallas," Gottfried says. "I assured them that we're doing everything we can to get them more inventory. But it's taking some time. It will be late fall before we can produce enough to satisfy everybody."

Nissan is now selling approximately 2,000 Leaf electric vehicles each month which is about four times the volume it was selling about a year ago. To meet this new demand, Nissan is slowly ramping up production of the Leaf at its manufacturing facility in Tennessee.


"We're going to be short on inventory all through the summer," Gottfried says he has been telling dealers. "

Since its introduction, the Leaf has been most popular on the West Coast in areas such as San Francisco and Seattle. However, the market has expanded sales are exploding in St. Louis, Atlanta, Chicago, and Raleigh. Atlanta is now the third-largest market for the Leaf electric vehicle and had only nine days of supply in June.

A year ago, California made up 37% of Leaf cells. Now, the state only accounts for 27% of sales due to significant growth in other markets.
 
Nissan credits its price cut of about $6,000 earlier this year for the increased sales.

Source: Autonews



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Smells like artificial shortages
By Lord 666 on 7/16/2013 11:20:20 AM , Rating: 2
Sudden surge of interest? Great way to deflect price softness.




RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Motoman on 7/16/2013 11:26:59 AM , Rating: 1
Exactly.

The things come with a government subsidy, which all of us have to pay for, and then they put another huge price cut on top of that.

"Hey, as soon as we started giving these things away, people started taking them! We're popular!"

Well, no sh1t Sherlock.


By GulWestfale on 7/16/2013 11:32:56 AM , Rating: 3
RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By SublimeSimplicity on 7/16/2013 11:42:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The things come with a government subsidy, which all of us have to pay for


Strange, because I thought I got an income tax rebate on my LEAF. I was under the impression I was able to keep more of MY money that I earned by buying it. I didn't consider the fact that YOU had laid claim to MY money after I earned it.

Just so we're on the same page, how much more of MY money are you entitled to?


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Lord 666 on 7/16/2013 1:01:40 PM , Rating: 3
Your welcome for the gift. Since its a fixed rebate per car, those in higher tax brackets contributed a greater amount than those in lower tax brackets.


By maugrimtr on 7/18/2013 7:34:11 AM , Rating: 2
Moron.

It's not a fixed rebate - it's a variable tax credit up to a maximum of $7,500. Your tax dollars do not fund tax credits unless you count the opportunity cost of an EV purchaser's tax dollars up to $7,500 being kept by them as a loss because it doesn't enter the government spending pool.

It's not that hard to use those mysterious electrical tubes carrying packets across the globe to find out where the credit is defined and legislated for. Better than making sh|t up as you go.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By OnyxNite on 7/16/2013 2:39:56 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not in the market for a car at the moment so I'm not sure what the tax rules are for electric vehicles but if the "tax rebate" you got was a CREDIT then you got it from every person who pays taxes because you would get a CREDIT even if you paid ZERO taxes, thus it is NOT your money being returned. If however the "tax rebate" you got was a DEDUCTION that reduced the amount of your income you have to pay taxes on then you are correct in that it was your money in the first place and not any other tax payers.


By lennylim on 7/16/2013 2:48:19 PM , Rating: 2
It is a "use it or lose it" deduction from your taxes in the same year you bought the car. The federal government and the IRS could be a bit more clear in their terminology, but hey, it's the feds.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Keeir on 7/17/2013 8:06:00 PM , Rating: 2
That's faulty logic.

Wether its a credit or deduction, it still reduces the total amount of (income) taxes paid to less than without the credit or deduction.

I think a real question is how the government should be supported.

Today's system of progressive tax on indivudal income with special reduced rates for income earned on capital is fairly interesting (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/backg... I include "payroll" taxes because they are based on labor provided by individuals, getting more than 80% of the Federal Budget). I tend to end up paying a large multiplier of the per worker average of this funding source. I fundamentally disagree with many of the credits and deductions that exist. For instance, I think the deduction of mortage interest (while popular) is not really supportable. Essentially everyone claiming a mortage deduction (especially for a mortage they could not otherwise afford) is stealing from people who have either paid off their home, can not afford a home, or do not choose to purchase an home beyond thier budget.

I find that most people who are against the electric car credit, are really against it because they can't see it benefiting themself. They typically are perfectly fine with the dozens of tax credits and deductions that unfairly favor them.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Reclaimer77 on 7/17/2013 8:29:58 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I find that most people who are against the electric car credit, are really against it because they can't see it benefiting themself.


Based on some large sample group survey you've personally conducted no doubt?

I doubt a hopeless Leftist like you could even begin to grasp the root of this issue.

quote:
Essentially everyone claiming a mortage deduction (especially for a mortage they could not otherwise afford) is stealing from people who have either paid off their home, can not afford a home, or do not choose to purchase an home beyond thier budget.


That's essentially bullsh*t. Also the highlighted words above, aren't words. Maybe you should actually be able to spell mortgage if you want to discuss them?

The only way this is considered "stealing" is if you're viewing this issue in the typical Liberal light. Liberals view the collective income of the individuals of this nation as one large pot that belongs to the Government. At which point the Government then decides how much of it you get to keep for yourself after it's done distributing the wealth of this nation.

Let me ask you something, who's taxes were increased specifically because I got a mortgage deduction? Answer: nobodies. I'm not "stealing"!

Also while the mortgage deduction is nice, it doesn't reduce my liability to zero. Not even close. For some people, these State and Federal EV tax deductions could reduce their total income tax liability to nothing, or damn close! Just for picking a different car than me? That's just so wrong.

I'm against the EV tax credit on several levels, but I've never claimed it's stealing from me or anyone else.


By topkill on 7/18/2013 9:50:47 PM , Rating: 1
First point:
quote:
Answer: nobodies

Don't make fun of other people for their English/spelling when you're a frigging moron. You're referring to who's taxes were affected so it's "nobody's"

Second point:
quote:
Liberals view the collective income of the individuals of this nation as one large pot that belongs to the Government.

You call others "liberal" and say they view all money as belonging to the government yet claim that you should be allowed to get tax breaks for your house? Are you that fucking stupid and logic challenged?

Third point:
quote:
Let me ask you something, who's taxes were increased specifically because I got a mortgage deduction?

Either our politicians have to decide what we're going to do without or else someone else has to pay more to make up for the taxes you get to keep. It's not magic, taxes pay for shit. If you're not paying them, then someone else has to make up for it.

Frankly, you're just an offensive jagoff who has something against EVs so you pile on BS arguments against things you don't like with no logic and ignore the hypocrisy of your own benefits.


By Dr of crap on 7/17/2013 12:56:10 PM , Rating: 3
NONE - the govt spends it all and then some!


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Chaser on 7/22/2013 12:31:34 PM , Rating: 2
I don't buy vehicles that bestow tax credits. Just by virtue of that I'd be happy to compare our 1040s though and see who gets confiscated more.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By tayb on 7/16/2013 11:47:43 AM , Rating: 3
I hope you never bought a house and received a new house tax credit or you are just a raging hypocrite. Or went to school and received an tuition tax credit. Or paid into a retirement account and received a tax credit. Or had a child and qualified for a tax credit. Or any other extremely popular tax credits that no one seems to give a damn about. The tax system incentivizing a lot of different things and no one seems to give a damn but as soon as we start talking about fuel efficient vehicles people get into an uproar. What a joke.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By DukeN on 7/16/2013 1:32:13 PM , Rating: 2
Stop it man, you're ruining the ragehate fun.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Shig on 7/16/2013 1:58:05 PM , Rating: 2
The more people mindlessly hate something, the more you know it's succeeding. Electric cars will still be 'failing' as they become a mainstay in the US car market.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By OnyxNite on 7/16/2013 2:45:37 PM , Rating: 2
Personally I'd rather see all the CREDITS go away and simply use DEDUCTIONS. That being said as long as there are credits then you're only hurting yourself if you don't take advantage of the ones you are eligible for. You have to play the game by the rules as they are not how you want them to be.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By JediJeb on 7/16/2013 5:29:53 PM , Rating: 3
From what I have read up on this "credit", it seems that what you get is $7500 taken off what you owe the government. If I only owe the government $5400 in taxes this year and I buy a Nissan Leaf then I essentially owe $0 taxes but do not get the remaining $1100 back as a refund.

That is why marketing that you can take $7500 off the asking price of one of these is misleading because you can only take that much off if you owe that much in taxes to begin with. If you owe $0 taxes then you would get $0 for purchasing one. If what I have read is correct.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Spuke on 7/16/2013 6:27:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
From what I have read up on this "credit", it seems that what you get is $7500 taken off what you owe the government. If I only owe the government $5400 in taxes this year and I buy a Nissan Leaf then I essentially owe $0 taxes but do not get the remaining $1100 back as a refund.
This is exactly how I read it too. BTW, tax credits are not all handled the same.


By JPWhite on 7/16/2013 8:25:56 PM , Rating: 2
Your analysis of how tax credits work is correct. So yes if you buy the vehicle outright you will only benefit $5,400 which is your total tax liability for the year, (which is different from what you 'owe' BTW).

In order to get the full $7,500 one can lease the LEAF, the $7,500 is taken off at point of sale so you get the full benefit regardless of your personal tax situation. So for tax payers who have a liability of less than $7,500 leasing maybe a better option. Depends on how far you drive each year and the lease mileage cap and how much extra benefit you get from leasing vs buying.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By GulWestfale on 7/16/2013 11:26:03 PM , Rating: 2
5400+1100 is 7500 where you live? can i have whatever is left over please?


By JediJeb on 7/17/2013 3:05:25 PM , Rating: 2
Naw, just let me balance your check book :)

At least I didn't credit you $92 Quadrillion like PayPal just did to someone.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Rukkian on 7/16/2013 2:50:52 PM , Rating: 2
This is the whole thing I do not understand about all of the outrage on this. I currently rent out of choice, but am subsidizing everybody else that buys a house. Where is the outrage for this?

It all comes down to everybody only caring about what they will get out of it. If it is something they get money from, it is great, if it only helps others, then it is a horrible injustice and people should be hanged on the white house lawn for it.

I can't personally use an electric vehicle, cause they either don't have the range I need, or are too expensive. I don't currently have a place to charge, but could probably figure that piece out, and still I have no problem with this credit.

If we wanted to look into all credits and get rid of most (all?) of them, I think everybody would be better off.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Spuke on 7/16/2013 6:33:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is the whole thing I do not understand about all of the outrage on this.
The only reason why there's "outrage" over this is because it's the political talking point of the day.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By JPWhite on 7/16/2013 8:28:44 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. If you are upset about EV Credits, then one should advocate the flat tax with no option for deductions or credits. Eliminate them all.

Then the govt would do a 'cash for clunkers deal' and give someones money to the someone else. Shock, horror.


By JediJeb on 7/17/2013 3:07:42 PM , Rating: 3
I vote yes on a flat tax, same percentage for everyone who makes any money and no deductions whatsoever. That we we can just do away with the IRS too.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Motoman on 7/16/2013 7:03:08 PM , Rating: 2
I rent. Got no kids. Didn't take any school loans. Chose to use my IRA to pay off bills when the company I worked for closed up shop - and paid enormous tax penalties because of it.

When someone buys an EV and gets that ludicrous tax break, meant to prop up a product that's incapable of competiting on it's own merits, the tax revenue per capita decreases for that frivolous credit - effectively putting more burden on everyone else. If you buy an EV and get that ridiculous tax break, and I don't, I'm paying more taxes than you are. Period. Pretty simple math.

At least tuition tax credit, or kid credits, or whatever, have some kind of basis in something valid. I never got a tuition credit, but frankly I wouldn't be upset with someone else that did.

But a tax credit for buying an EV? Please. The one and only reason that tax credit exists is because EVs are a product that can't compete based on their own merits. Ergo, they should just fail in the marketplace...until such time as such a product *can* be made that *can* compete on it's own merits.

The EV tax credit is a Smug Subsidy. Have fun smelling your farts while paying less than your fair share of tax. Don't worry - the rest of us will apparently make up for your shortfall.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By flyingpants1 on 7/17/2013 2:26:52 AM , Rating: 2
It's meant to keep EVs afloat until prices drop. It worked.


By Jeffk464 on 7/17/2013 11:18:53 AM , Rating: 2
Yup, same as with the prius which is now profitable. I think Tesla would have no problem selling the same number of cars without the tax credit. People seem to love the car and are willing to pay a price premium to get one.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Reclaimer77 on 7/17/2013 11:59:36 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
It's meant to keep EVs afloat until prices drop. It worked.


Why is it the Government's responsibility to keep "EV's afloat"?

There are hundreds of technologies and products out there that could benefit our lives, yet have little to no market penetration because of cost barriers. Should the Government just arbitrarily pick winners and losers there and fund them?

The amount of Government manipulation into the automotive industry is what's probably bothering me more than anything. Direct market manipulation by Government has never succeeded, historically, and always has far-reaching unforeseen consequences.


By flyingpants1 on 7/21/2013 9:37:09 PM , Rating: 2
It's not their responsibility, it's just something they did, because each ICE car shoots out poisonous gas everywhere it goes, and it's more than reasonable because other countries subsidize technology too, whether it be the oil industry or the EV industry... And I am sorry.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By tayb on 7/17/2013 9:41:41 AM , Rating: 2
What an excellent argument!

quote:
At least tuition tax credit, or kid credits, or whatever, have some kind of basis in something valid.


You know what that "some kind of something or whatever" thing is? It's called an incentive. It's an incentive to buy a house, an incentive to go to school, or an incentive to have kids. You could even call it a reward. I don't really care. Point is you either have a problem with all tax credits/incentives or none of them at all.

quote:
But a tax credit for buying an EV? Please. The one and only reason that tax credit exists is because EVs are a product that can't compete based on their own merits. Ergo, they should just fail in the marketplace...until such time as such a product *can* be made that *can* compete on it's own merits.


A tax credit for buying a house? Please. The one and only reason that tax credit exists is because buying a house is not a great financial decision as opposed to renting. Ergo, home builders should just fail in the marketplace... until such time as a house is cheap enough that it is a stronger financial alternative to renting.

Or... simply replace "buying a house" with "going to school" or "having a child." Your argument is ridiculous and is void of all logic or reason. You just don't like fuel efficient vehicles, for whatever ridiculous reason. Probably because reporters on Fox News told you not to.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By ZmaxDP on 7/17/2013 1:53:05 PM , Rating: 2
What what WHAT??? Woooosh... (That is the sound of your credibility going out the window...)

Buying a house is a far better financial decision than renting in a lot of situations. Maybe not all, but in a vast majority of the US it is. Takeout the interest tax break, still a better decision. WAY better. We just had a renter buy a rental property from us. Purchasing the house at today's interest rates in the Dallas market ignoring any tax implications and assuming they'll only be able to sell at the same value they purchased at resulted in an almost 22 thousand dollar net gain in their personal accounts over three years compared to renting on a home costing 90K. So, financially speaking, that is 7333.33 better decision per year. That comes from the reduced price per month (about 11K over three years) and the equity gained (the other 11K). If the market improves over the next three years, it looks even better. The home would actually have to loose about 20% of its value for the end result in three years to be break-even between renting.

So, yeah, I don't know what world/continent/state/city you live in - but to globally state that home ownership needs tax incentives to justify it financially seems just nuts to me. That's 22K that family can invest in their kid's college education, or into their 401Ks, or into a new EV (just kidding!).

Leasing makes a lot of sense on items that depreciate like cars, boats, etc... On anything that holds or improves it's value historically over time - it almost never makes sense to lease as you're only assisting someone else in building their wealth - not yourself. The only thing that typically sways that needle is interest rates and available capital. If you have high enough interest rates and insufficient capital to purchase the item outright, then there are points at which rental/leasing makes sense for value holding assests as well - however with current interest rates as low as they are I can't think of a single example where this is currently true.


By topkill on 7/19/2013 9:43:24 AM , Rating: 2
You're making his point for him! It's a better decision BECAUSE of the financial incentives of the tax break!

GEEZ! Do you people even think about the things you say before you post them? For god's sake man, use your head for a minute.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By euclidean on 7/17/2013 10:24:29 AM , Rating: 2
So what does that mean about the subsidies for Oil/Gas? Based on this statement, should we not get rid of those and let Oil/Gas stand up on it's own?


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Reclaimer77 on 7/17/2013 11:06:01 AM , Rating: 2
Can we stop regurgitating this FUD?

There are no direct oil/gas subsidies like there is for EV's. There ARE tax breaks that are the same and any other business would qualify for, however.

Furthermore oil/gas tax revenues are responsible for tens of billions of dollars a year, EVERY year, in state and Federal government revenues. Far far outstripping the pennies on the dollar that your "subsidies" cover. Unlike EV's which have yet to make a single positive contribution to tax revenues or the general populace.

Your entire post is a straw man, a factually bankrupt one at that. Oil isn't subsidized by the Government to boost sales, and it IS standing on it's own and has been for over a hundred years.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Spuke on 7/17/2013 12:04:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Can we stop regurgitating this FUD?
X2, I really tire of the lies and spin. We get enough from our government.


By Reclaimer77 on 7/17/2013 12:09:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I hope you never bought a house and received a new house tax credit or you are just a raging hypocrite.


But EVERYONE buying a house qualifies for the same credit. Your analogy is false, STOP using it. A better analogy here would be if I qualify for the tax credit because my house is brick, but you don't because it's vinyl sided.

Why should one vehicle choice benefit someone greatly while we punish the other one? Don't you see how wrong it is to wield taxation and Government power like a club in order to punish one group of people while rewarding the other?

I don't WANT a Government that thinks it's job is to punish me for owning an ICE vehicle, and rewarding you because you own an EV. That's prejudicial! A car is a car is a car.

If you want your Goddamned EV tax credit, fine. Make them available to EVERY car purchase and I'll shut up. But I will simply NOT shut up and go along with this absurd Liberal EV lovefest nonsense. We don't need the Government doing this! If you want your car, pay for it! It's that simple. Everyone else does it, why can't EV owners?

quote:
Or went to school and received an tuition tax credit.


Same straw man, EVERYONE going to school qualifies for that same credit.

quote:
Or paid into a retirement account and received a tax credit.


Uhhh ditto here. Hello??

quote:
Or had a child and qualified for a tax credit.


Again, everyone with a child qualifies. How stupid can you possibly be!!??


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By topkill on 7/16/2013 3:04:08 PM , Rating: 4
Yeah, and I'm sick of paying extra for you to get a tax break on your house while I rent. And I'm sick of you taking deductions for your kids. Raise your brats on your own dime, I didn't make you have them.

Oh, I'm sorry....this only applies to things YOU don't want to pay for?

Either campaign to get rid of ALL deductions and credits or shut the F up. You don't get to choose which ones are ok vs. which ones are not.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Motoman on 7/16/2013 7:06:13 PM , Rating: 2
Good thing none of those things apply to me that you mentioned. As for campaigning for getting rid of all deductions - I'm all for it.

But you're an absolute f%cktard for trying to imply that there's any validity to an EV tax credit...while there's at least some reasonable basis for other tax credits. The one and only reason the tax credit for EVs exists is because they're a bad product that can't compete in the market on their own...so the government has to pay you to buy them.

And when the government pays you to buy one, you wind up several thousand dollars short on your fair share of taxes. Because you wanted to enhance your smug factor with an EV. Guess who shoulders the burden of your several thousand-dollar shortfall? That's right - the rest of us.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Jeffk464 on 7/17/2013 11:28:14 AM , Rating: 2
By the way you guys are all missing another major tax credit for electrics, they don't pay the gas tax. Over the life of the car this will add up to a substantial pile of cash.


By Motoman on 7/17/2013 11:54:11 AM , Rating: 2
States are waking up to that fact and taking action - working on legislation that will make EV owners pay their fair share of taxes to keep roads and bridges together.

Working on it, anyway. What's hilarious is watching the EV consumer start wildly flailing about complaining that adding such a tax to them "isn't fair" when apparently it *is fair* for them to get a tax break for buying the EV in the first place.

Not only are non-EV buyers supposed to pay more income taxes than EV buyers, but we're also supposed to pay their share of road taxes too.

It's either really funny or really sad that EV supporters can actually try to support both ends of this with a straight face. They honestly think they're entitled to have their cake and eat it too.


By topkill on 7/18/2013 9:56:45 PM , Rating: 1
And you're an absolute asshat for thinking there is any validity for you getting a tax break for owning a home when people that rent don't get anything.
Because you wanted a tax break on your house, the rest of us have to make up for it. Oh, wait...your logic only works for you? No, so go fuck yourself.

And I couldn't give a fuck about smug or green or whatever your hangup is. I want us to use less oil so we're not importing as much. Money going out of our economy screws us all out of jobs. THAT does more to damage the value of your house than anything else...because less people can afford them.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Reclaimer77 on 7/16/13, Rating: -1
RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Spuke on 7/17/2013 12:08:00 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You don't even pay taxes on an apartment, wtf!?
Good point!1 Why should apartment renters or renters period be exempt from taxes? Sure they don't own the property but they do reside there and should be liable for a portion of the property tax IMO.


By rountad on 7/17/2013 1:12:20 PM , Rating: 2
It will be rolled into the rent the landlord charges.


By topkill on 7/18/2013 10:12:23 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The taxes I pay on my house, even after deductions, would make your freaking head spin! You don't even pay taxes on an apartment, wtf!?


I own a house on the beach in Destin, and the taxes on THAT would make your head spin. I also own a house in Tennessee and rent one in Atlanta for when I'm there working.

Go look at the price for renting vs. owning the same size house. The owners charge you WAY the hell over their monthly mortgage cost to cover taxes and potential repairs...and profit. So the renter is clearly paying the taxes too.

And SPUKE, that was a stupid comment...even for you.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By dailytechgirl on 7/16/2013 4:49:05 PM , Rating: 2
Better paying for a tax credit for a more environmentally friendly car than paying off those trillions in taxes we paid for oil via our war with Iraq. Now if we could just stay away from paying for wars for oil in the future...

I'll be happy when everyone in cities drives EV cars and the air is cleaner. We'll save money medical bills for lung illnesses this way.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Spuke on 7/16/2013 6:35:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'll be happy when everyone in cities drives EV cars and the air is cleaner. We'll save money medical bills for lung illnesses this way.
Which lung illnesses will EV's "cure"?


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Paj on 7/17/2013 10:59:59 AM , Rating: 2
It will prevent them.

Prevention is better than a cure. Using a condom is easier and cheaper than curing AIDS.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Spuke on 7/17/2013 12:09:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It will prevent them.
Which one's? Got a link where I can do some research on this? I'm seriously skeptical but willing to take a look.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Keeir on 7/17/2013 8:32:46 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/health/research/...
http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/g...

But I think common sense also states that

1.) Particle matter in air in harmful to lungs
2.) Vaporized Gasoline is not good for people
3.) Vaporized Sulfer/NOX is not good for people

EVs can significantly reduce the above provided power stations are located relatively distant and do not use Coal.


By topkill on 7/18/2013 9:59:22 PM , Rating: 2
Oh God, you invoked common sense? You think these asshats will admit that it can't possibly be good for you to breathe polluted air? They would rather choke to death first.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By toffty on 7/17/2013 12:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
Asthma and Lung Cancer to name two


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Mint on 7/16/2013 2:35:12 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong.

http://insideevs.com/nissan-the-new-benchmark-in-c...

Nissan had less than 10,000 Leaf sales in the US last year, but were expecting a nice leap to 15,000 sales this year.

Sales are shattering that forecast. They've sold a consistent 2000-2200 per month since the 2013 models went on sale in late Feb: 8500 in 4 months, or almost triple last year's pace.

The price cut made a huge difference in the car's value proposition. You just can't beat $200/mo lease + $30/mo fuel with any other car except barebones econoboxes. Sure, range is an issue, but it's not hard to believe that maybe 10% of the market could live with that. A two-car household can replace their aging second car with a new Leaf for just a little more than their old gas costs.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Spuke on 7/16/2013 6:38:25 PM , Rating: 2
It's tempting at the new price point, for sure but both of us need full time cars not commuters. If the range gets into 300 mile area while having the A/C and radio running at the same time when the temps are in the 110F range, I'd pick one up used and drive it myself (and get that 69 Bimmer for a 3rd fun car).


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By JPWhite on 7/16/2013 8:32:52 PM , Rating: 2
I believe way more than 10% of buyers could comfortably use a LEAF. It's a little known fact that LEAF drivers drive on average more miles per year than the national average for all vehicle types. See EVProject for the facts.

That being the case, clearly over 50% of US drivers could use a LEAF with little or no accommodation necessary. Many of those could use the LEAF as their primary vehicle.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Mint on 7/16/2013 9:43:40 PM , Rating: 2
I was just being conservative. 10% is over 100,000 per month, so there's a while to go before that :)

I think EVs with cheap range extenders are the future. Keep elelctric range at ~60-100 miles, and add a cheap 30 HP engine/generator for the 5-10% of miles that need it. 300 mile battery packs are a waste.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Spuke on 7/17/2013 12:17:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
300 mile battery packs are a waste.
LOL! Some of you guys really are a$$holes. If you look at EV SALES, they're still pitiful compared to regular vehicles. Why is that? Could it be the range? I know for me it is. That's why I said 300 miles. 300 miles under the previously stated conditions would make for a car that COULD function as a daily driver capable of doing most of what I need to do. And I'm not interested in a "range extender". Those are already available (you know they're called HYBRIDS). I want a do-90%-of-everything I need car that requires NO GAS . Isn't that the whole point of EV's?


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Mint on 7/17/2013 4:23:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you look at EV SALES, they're still pitiful compared to regular vehicles. Why is that? Could it be the range?
What does that have to do with my generator argument? The only EREV right now is the Volt, and it costs WAY more than a Leaf.

The upcoming BMW i3 is said to charge only $2000 for the generator option. Add that to a Leaf, and you have a car that has 90% of the benefits of a full EV, none of the drawbacks, and a $30k price before subsidy.

No plugin hybrid is close to that price today.
quote:
I want a do-90%-of-everything I need car that requires NO GAS . Isn't that the whole point of EV's?
How is that better than a do- 100% -of-everything car that uses 10% gas?

If 100 mile range can handle 85%+ of your driving, how do you justify paying for an additional 200 miles of range for just that last <15% of say 2k miles a year? Even if batteries go down to just $200/kWh, that's $10k extra to save 50 gallons a year.

Pure EVs with huge batteries have a nice image, and may be needed for performance EVs, but they're a highly wasteful solution. For the mass market, PHEV/EREV is the way to go.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Reclaimer77 on 7/17/2013 11:10:48 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's a little known fact that LEAF drivers drive on average more miles per year than the national average for all vehicle types.


And don't pay a single cent to road taxes while doing so. Just another example of the free ride EV owners get that's bought on the backs of ICE owners and everyone else.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Spuke on 7/17/2013 12:44:49 PM , Rating: 2
The good thing is that state governments are looking to correct that. So their free ride will end soon enough.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Mint on 7/17/2013 6:17:02 PM , Rating: 2
Almost no road damage caused by light duty vehicles. An 18-wheeler will do something like 10,000x more damage per mile than a car due to the extreme non-linear dependence on weight per axle. The correct solution to this is to not to tax EVs, but reduce tax on LDVs.

Doing so would probably require tracking all medium and heavy duty vehicles and make them pay more tax, or for an easier but less perfect route, tax only diesel (since the majority of diesel vehicle miles traveled is from the shipping industry).

I suspect that charging EV users is the easiest solution, though.


RE: Smells like artificial shortages
By Dr of crap on 7/17/2013 1:04:18 PM , Rating: 2
YOU NEED to charge it. Those that live in the inner city with no garage, those in apartments, condos, what ever DO NOT have the charging means that a garage does. So NO the Leaf cannot be a good match for a LOT of drivers.
AND it is just these people that would benefit from owning a fuel free car, but can't because of the no charging problem.


By topkill on 7/19/2013 9:40:25 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, but there are ~75 million single family homes in America...still plenty to provide an early market for EVs.

But you do have a point, apartment dwellers should not be left out of the equation and it sucks that we'll have to eventually solve that problem.


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