Print 63 comment(s) - last by Brandon Hill.. on Jun 24 at 12:10 PM

The new Honda Accord Hybrid is rated at 47 mpg combined

There's a battle brewing in the midsize car market. Midsize cars like the Accord and Camry have long been among the best-selling vehicles in America, but increased competition in recent years (thanks to redesigns of the Hyundai Sonata, Nissan Altima, and Ford Fusion) have led to an ever bigger boom in midsize car sales.
With that in mind, most of the major players have added hybrid models (or diesels) to their midsize offerings in order to boost fuel economy. Honda's last Accord Hybrid was a flop (it was positioned more towards performance than fuel economy), but the Japanese auto giant is looking to knock out a few of its competitors teeth with new 2014 Accord Hybrid.

The new Accord Hybrid, which is based on the ninth-generation Accord that launched last year, will get an estimated 49 mpg in the city and 45 mpg on the highway (47 mpg combined). Compared to its major competition, the Accord Hybrid more than holds its own:
Toyota Camry Hybrid: 43/39 (city/highway)
Hyundai Sonata Hybrid: 36/40
Ford Fusion Hybrid: 47/47
Chevrolet Malibu Eco: 25/37
Volkswagen Passat TDI (DSG): 30/40
Volkswagen Passat TDI (Manual): 31/43
The Accord Hybrid makes use of a 2.0-liter Atkinson-cycle 4-cylinder engine, a 124-kW electric motor and a lithium-ion battery pack. According to Honda, the electric motor can power the vehicle alone at low speeds and "medium to high speed cruising."

The Accord Hybrid will join the Accord Plug-in Hybrid in Honda's midsize lineup. Pricing hasn't yet been revealed for the Accord Hybrid, but we're guessing that it will be price competitive with the Camry Hybrid ($26,140 MSRP) and Fusion Hybrid ($27,200 MSRP).

Source: Honda

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Data error??
By Basilisk on 6/20/2013 4:04:14 PM , Rating: 2
Volkswagen Passat TDI (DSG): 40/30
Volkswagen Passat TDI (Manual): 31/43

Q1: "DSG" vs "Manual" shouldn't flip the mpg estimates, should it?

Q2: What causes the DSG mpg drops? Weight? Or is it calculated for Automatic mode as opposed to Semi-Manual (paddle-shifting)?

RE: Data error??
By Reclaimer77 on 6/20/2013 4:09:43 PM , Rating: 1
Passat's get great mileage because it doesn't use much fuel while it's sitting at the mechanics shop twice a month


RE: Data error??
By Brandon Hill on 6/20/2013 4:19:32 PM , Rating: 2
Heh, my next car is going to be a VW ;)

I'm looking to get an MKVII Jetta Sportwagen (aka Golf Variant) when it gets here.

Still haven't decided on the 1.8T gasser or the TDI (I hear DSG maintenance costs for the TDI are a biatch). The Jetta Sportwagen is the only small traditional station wagon left. Crossovers have killed everything else, and I hate the driving position of crossovers/SUVs.

I used to love my old Mazda 3s hatch, but the Sportwagen has a lot more usable cargo space which is good for projects around the house and hauling the kid and dog around.

RE: Data error??
By Reclaimer77 on 6/20/2013 4:52:47 PM , Rating: 1
The Jetta Sportwagen is the only small traditional station wagon left.

Hey now :)

lol nah I hear ya.

But aren't you just a bit freaked out about VW's horrible ratings? It's like they just fall apart on owners or have persistent electrical problems.

That Sportwagen is sexy for a wagon though.

Still haven't decided on the 1.8T gasser or the TDI (I hear DSG maintenance costs for the TDI are a biatch).

Yeah that's tough. The turbo will require premium fuel, which is similarly priced to diesel. Diesel maintenance costs are a complete rip-off.

Meah I would go with the turbo, but that's just me. I hate diesel engines in passenger vehicles personally. If I wanted to drive a school bus, I would buy one :P

What's up with those engine choices anyway? 1.8L? For a car that big?

RE: Data error??
By Brandon Hill on 6/20/2013 5:04:18 PM , Rating: 2
According to the owner of VWVortex, the 1.8T will require regular unleaded (my Sonata 2.0t also runs regular -- I wouldn't have bought it otherwise). VW went with the 1.8T because it produces the same power and torque as the old 2.5-liter inline-5 (170hp) but is supposed to get a lot better gas mileage.

And the Jetta Sportwagen isn't all that big... it's only 179" long.

As for being freaked out by VW and electrical problems, can't be any worse than what I'm going through right now with my '11 Sonata. I had to take it in last year for a CEL (can't remember what the issue was then). I had to take it in again two weeks ago for another CEL (some wire to the coilpack was loose or some BS like that that was throwing an engine misfire code).

Two days ago, same thing. Another CEL, issue with the coilpack and a misfire on two cylinders. They (supposedly) fixed it and reflashed the computer. Thing only has 32,000 miles on it.

Maybe this is just a warmup for VW ownership :)

As for the Subaru Legacy Wagon you posted -- easily one of the sexiest wagons in recent memory. Now they're all butched out in Outback trim. Buddy of mine and his wife have a red wagon just like that one and a new '13 Jetta Sportwagen TDI.

RE: Data error??
By Spuke on 6/20/2013 5:17:26 PM , Rating: 2
I'll give it to you there, the Subaru Legacy was a sweet car. I was wondering why VW was going back to a 1.8T until you mentioned it's replacing the 2.5L. I have to agree with Rec, VW reliability just scares me. It sucks cause I really like the company and the new MkVII GTI looks to be VERY impressive (especially at 220 lbs less than the old car AND 220-230hp).

RE: Data error??
By Brandon Hill on 6/20/2013 5:24:24 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I've always made fun of VW reliability myself, but the new Sportwagen is just calling my name. I want that small, light feel like I had in my old Mazda 3s.

My Sonata is big, comfy, quiet, fast as hell, gets decent gas mileage (around 25 combined), and it swallows my kid in his rear-facing carseat easily with room to spare. But even with the big 'old trunk in the back, it falls flat on its face when it comes to carrying bulky items. With my old hatch, I could just throw down the rear seats and fit everything from furniture to TVs in there.

Anything else in this size/price range is either too small in the cargo area for my current needs/wants (Mazda 3s hatch, Focus hatch, Golf, etc) or a damn compact crossover (RAV4, CR-V, CX-5, etc.).

RE: Data error??
By Lord 666 on 6/20/2013 9:34:26 PM , Rating: 2
Don't let the VW FUD scare you and definitely focus on the TDI.

What you should be more worried about are careless drivers. Picked up my new TDI Passat last weekend and within six hours and 75 miles later, was hit from behind. Maybe it was a sign to wait for the E250.

Ironically, today was an electric car day; a Karma (4th one in my area) blew past me on highway and came across a Tesla S in a parking lot.

RE: Data error??
By Brandon Hill on 6/20/2013 9:55:59 PM , Rating: 2
Well, from what I'm hearing on VW Vortex, maintenance costs for the TDI are rather high compared to other cars. Besides the higher fuel prices, the DSG has to be serviced every 40,000 miles at around $375 to $450 each. Fuel filter change every 30,000 miles. And from the VW peeps, looks like a timing belt replacement is a whopping $1,000.

The way I see it, if the new 1.8T comes within earshot of 40mpg on the highway, I'm going that route.

RE: Data error??
By Lord 666 on 6/20/2013 10:54:35 PM , Rating: 2
Those prices and intervals are accurate... except the fuel filter. Depends on the quality of fuel and if you run it past 1/4 tank remaining. VW does not have a standard replacement interval due to those wide variables, but figure closer to 40,000 to 50,000.

With the exception of the diesel fuel filter and potentially AdBlue if needed for the 2015 Jetta's (its required in the current Passat), none of those maintenance costs are diesel specific. Check out as well.

RE: Data error??
By Reclaimer77 on 6/23/2013 10:32:41 AM , Rating: 2
FUD? It's been proven by every objective statistic, ranking, survey- you name it. VW's are plagued with reliability issues and poor quality.

Just because you own one, and like it, changes nothing.

RE: Data error??
By Samus on 6/21/2013 12:58:19 AM , Rating: 2
Don't even get me started on German cars, especially Volkswagen. Europeans laugh about how terrible their reliability is, how much they cost, and how incredibly boring they are to look at...that is, all Europeans except Germans.

Everyone I know with a VW, especially those with diesels, have completely negated their fuel 'savings' with maintenance costs and the initial price premium they paid for the diesel.

A clutch alone in any German car with a manual transmission will cost over $2000 parts/labor because of the compact dual-layshaft transmissions being a complete pain to remove, expensive parts (especially that mandatory-replacement $500 dual mass flywheel that usually fails before the clutch disc) and the lack of people even willing to work on them because of the unnecessary complexity. They usually replace their clutches around 70k like clockwork.

My old Mazda Protege has 156K on the original clutch when I sold it. My older Honda Accord has 222k on the original clutch when I sold it. And honestly, it shifted nicer than any German car I've ever driven with a solid flywheel, so that DMF does very little to improve shift harshness. Lastly, my Focus (non-SVT) with a Ford transmission using a solid flywheel costs $900 parts/labor to replace a clutch on, where as my SVT Focus with a German Getrag transmission costs $2200 to replace a clutch on. Both last about 100k, but the German transmission is so ridiculous to remove, the fluid costs $30 a quart, and many replacement parts are outrageously expensive.

I'm going to just stop there at transmissions, because that's really all that needs mentioning with German cars. Because anybody who knows about the previous issues of reliability and cost for their transmissions can already predict what a bloodbath these DCT transmissions are going to start when people realize its $3500 for clutches and $7000 to replace the control units, both which are just now beginning to fail on vehicles out of warranty.

RE: Data error??
By BRB29 on 6/21/2013 7:47:17 AM , Rating: 1
Isn't DCT supposed to be smaller, simpler, less moving parts, lighter, and easier to work on.

RE: Data error??
By Spuke on 6/21/2013 12:05:49 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't DCT supposed to be smaller, simpler, less moving parts, lighter, and easier to work on.
Smaller and lighter but definitely not simpler. It's like having two manual transmissions.

RE: Data error??
By Reclaimer77 on 6/21/2013 10:02:40 AM , Rating: 2
Legacy GT's can still be had on the used market in great shape. My girlfriends stupid Ford Taurus is falling to pieces one part at a time (I tried telling her that would happen before she bought it). So I'm going to talk her into a Legacy GT Turbo heheh. Then my driveway and garage will be occupied with a 2000 Impreza RS, a 2005 Impreza STI, and a Legacy GT. Think anyone will notice the trend? lol.

Sucks about your Sonata. I thought Hyundai was getting better? Grrr, doesn't sound like it :(

According to the owner of VWVortex, the 1.8T will require regular unleaded

You know I need to do more research on that. Because seriously, how can you have a turbo engine running regular fuel without detonations and without the ECU constantly having to retard timings thus killing performance?

Maybe this is just a warmup for VW ownership :)

LOL I hope not for your sake. Well I'll still be around here by then I'm sure. Let me know how it's working out for you!

RE: Data error??
By Brandon Hill on 6/21/2013 2:56:37 PM , Rating: 2
Hyundais in general have pretty darn good reliability. I was just an idiot and bought a brand new model (first year for the Sonata redesign) with a brand new, clean slate engine. That was a pretty dumb move on my part, but the CELs have been more of an annoyance than something that's really pissed me off. They haven't left me stranded.

As for regular unleaded with turbos, most of the new mainstream vehicles with turbos (Sonata/Optima 2.0ts, the V6 EcoBoost in the F-150, the 4-banger EcoBoosts in the Fusion, the 2.0T in the new Malibu etc. all run on regular and don't require premium).

RE: Data error??
By Spuke on 6/21/2013 3:18:53 PM , Rating: 2
My 07 Solstice (turbo with DI) doesn't require premium either but not running it results in a 40 hp deficit and in the hotter climates the engine may ping. I ran some 87 octane "experiments" and found that in the summer the engine would indeed ping a bit under moderate to heavy load. To me the $2.40 a week difference is not worth pinging and a 40hp loss. I can save that elsewhere.

RE: Data error??
By Brandon Hill on 6/22/2013 6:36:33 PM , Rating: 2
As far as I know, the Solstice recommends premium but will run on regular (at reduced power). The cars I mentioned were designed to run on regular and putting in premium will not net you any greater power/performance.

RE: Data error??
By Spuke on 6/22/2013 11:14:11 PM , Rating: 2
Went out and looked in the manual and, yep, it does recommend premium.

The cars I mentioned were designed to run on regular and putting in premium will not net you any greater power/performance.
You might want to double check that. I thought I remembered that Hyundai was only advertising the higher hp lower when run on premium gas. Those cars run less power on regular.

RE: Data error??
By BRB29 on 6/23/2013 6:34:49 PM , Rating: 2
Yes the Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0T power changes depending on what fuel you use. I think it was less about 10 hp difference.

RE: Data error??
By Brandon Hill on 6/24/2013 12:10:26 PM , Rating: 2
In the application specific to the Sonata and Optima, only regular is required. It says so in the manual, and the senior powertrain engineer even confirms it.

The engine is required to sip nothing more exotic than 87 octane fuel. That is, the 2.0T generates its 274 horsepower at 6,000 rpm and 269 pound-feet of torque from 1,750-4,500 rpm on the cheap stuff. Typically, elevated specific output and low octane are mutually exclusive, making this achievement worth talking about.

Timothy White, the Sonata's senior powertrain engineer, reckons that this requirement amplified the difficulty of balancing low-end throttle response with a lofty peak horsepower target. This is because boosted engines generate high cylinder pressures, increasing their propensity for pre-ignition (knocking), which in turn limits how much grunt you can safely produce at both ends of the torque curve.

RE: Data error??
By Chaser on 6/21/2013 11:58:27 AM , Rating: 2
Sexy wagons? Does it come with an apron for you too?

In Utah we call Subaru's "bich baskets". The year round minivan replacement for our soccer moms.

RE: Data error??
By Brandon Hill on 6/21/2013 2:51:32 PM , Rating: 2
I'd rather have this than any high-riding SUV/crossovers who's idea of going offroad is hitting the curb at Costco:

RE: Data error??
By Spuke on 6/21/2013 3:48:13 PM , Rating: 2
No Audi's for me but that IS most definitely an awesome car. A CTS-V wagon would work for me. I actually do like crossovers though. I guess technically it goes off road cause we live on a dirt road. Didn't buy it for that though. I like the crossovers cause they're on car platforms and still drive like cars. It's a great car for the wife cause she can carry all her stuff in there and the only reason to break out the truck now is for hay and towing the horse trailer. Everything else fits in the xover. Great all-around car. Plus she wouldn't be caught dead in a wagon (although I contend crossovers are just wagons with high ground clearance).

RE: Data error??
By Reclaimer77 on 6/23/2013 6:10:17 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah well Utah is just the coolest place on the planet, you guys are totally the authority on what's what...

You Mormon's wouldn't know "sexy" if your lives depended on it :)

RE: Data error??
By MTSNJ on 6/21/2013 11:45:44 AM , Rating: 2
You got that right about VW. Had 3 jettas they were all leakers, water and oil. Terrible to work on. They are not Designed with working on them in mind. Simple things like placement of oil filters, dripping down on power steering lines and wiring harnesses, just stupid people designing them.

RE: Data error??
By Archibald Gates on 6/21/2013 10:18:13 AM , Rating: 1

I dont post normally, just wanted to give u a europeans opinion.

Personally I wouldn't touch a VW with a 10 foot pole, but IF u really want one, get the 1.8T with MANUAL trans. According to my private mechanic who repairs german cars every *uckin day, the only good engine is the 1.8T. And under no circumstances, DO NOT BUY THE DSG, that shit falls apart faster than a house of cards during an earthquake.

Wish u the best of luck :)

RE: Data error??
By Spuke on 6/20/2013 5:07:17 PM , Rating: 2

RE: Data error??
By DiscoWade on 6/20/2013 6:23:00 PM , Rating: 2
Passat's get great mileage because it doesn't use much fuel while it's sitting at the mechanics shop twice a month

At least it makes it to the mechanics shop, unlike a Chrysler product whose transmission will give out on the way. :)

RE: Data error??
By rountad on 6/20/2013 6:47:15 PM , Rating: 3
I've read more than once that VW is the German Chrysler...

RE: Data error??
By Brandon Hill on 6/20/2013 4:11:17 PM , Rating: 2
Data error on my part. Fixed.

"A politician stumbles over himself... Then they pick it out. They edit it. He runs the clip, and then he makes a funny face, and the whole audience has a Pavlovian response." -- Joe Scarborough on John Stewart over Jim Cramer

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