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A4WP gains support from an industry giant

It's not at all uncommon in the technology world for multiple organizations to be competing to become the standard for new technology. This went on in the past with the battle between Blu-ray and HD DVD among others. A new battle is brewing when it comes to wireless power with multiple organizations vying to be the standard.

The Alliance for Wireless Power (A4WP) and has added a big name to its list of supporters: Intel. “In joining A4WP, we look forward to working alongside other member companies and contributing to standards that help fuel an ecosystem of innovative solutions capable of simultaneously charging a range of devices, from low-power accessoriesto smartphones, tablets and Ultrabooks," said Navin Shenoy, Intel vice president, PC client group and general manager, mobile client platform division.

The Alliance for Wireless Power has a goal of creating a "flexible wireless power" specification wireless charging that will become an industry standard.


A4WP claims to have 50 members including some major companies in the technology realm including Broadcom, Delphi, LG Electronics, and SanDisk. The technology the company is supporting uses near field magnetic resonance charging allowing charging using a loose coupling of electromagnetic fields. The technology that A4WP is backing will allow multiple devices to be placed on a single charging pad at the same time with no need to fiddle with wires.

Competitors vying to become the industry standard for wireless charging include the Wireless Power Consortium and the Power Matters Alliance. The Wireless Power Consortium is backing technology that is already available on the market called Qi and is being used by Nokia, Samsung, and LG. The specification being pushed by the Power Matters Alliance is called Power 2.0. One of the biggest backers for the Power 2.0 standard is battery giant Duracell. The battery maker is backing Power 2.0 with its subsidiary, Powermat Technologies..

A4WP Chairman Kamil Grajski said his group aims to "[Remain] above the fray of the squabble that has broken out between first-generation players WPC and PMA" and "Has kept its eye on the next generation of [wireless charging] technologies and enhanced user experience through wireless charging spatial freedom."

Sources: Computerworld, Alliance for Wireless Power [PDF]



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RE: Lazy!
By Motoman on 6/20/2013 12:10:06 PM , Rating: 2
You're falling into a classic logical fallacy.

The fact that an existing plug-in A/C adapter isn't 100% efficient isn't justification to add additional loss to the system.

It's like saying "well, I already have AIDS. May as well go and get herpes and hepatitis too."

Or imagine if Congress passed a budget that had a 10% bigger deficit than the last one, and their excuse was "hey, we already spend a trillion dollars more than we make every year - why not spend $1.1 trillion?"


RE: Lazy!
By karimtemple on 6/20/2013 12:19:05 PM , Rating: 2
A fallacy accusation preceding multiple fallacies. Unfortunate, lol.

I'm not justifying the additional loss. I'm questioning the integrity of your argument that "plug-in is always better," given the fact that the majority of adapters are 70% efficient or less, which would make a 90% transfer efficient coupling on an 80% efficient adapter (and there are 87% efficient adapters!) superior by your own requirements.

Sometimes it's okay to just let go and humble yourself. It's okay.


RE: Lazy!
By Motoman on 6/20/2013 12:22:18 PM , Rating: 2
Wow. OK, let's think about this...friend.

Your little plug-in mat thing is going to need an A/C adapter.

As noted, the A/C adapter is, for the sake of argument, 90% efficient.

Then, your mat introduces another 10% inefficiency as a function of it's wireless field induction charging to the phone (or whatever) you use it with. Now you're at 80% efficiency (or 81%, depending on how you look at it.).

Or, you can just plug your phone into the wall with it's own A/C adapter at 90% efficiency.

90% efficiency vs. 80/81% efficiency.

Are you getting any of this?


RE: Lazy!
By tigz1218 on 6/20/2013 12:29:52 PM , Rating: 3
Not to be a broken record, but, YOUR ARGUMENT IS BASED ON THE FACT THAT NONE OF THESE VARIABLES WILL EVER CHANGE AND OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE UNIVERSE AND HOW EVERYTHING WORKS IS 100% ACCURATE. Can you get it through your mind that science is constantly evolving and that if we are to ever advance beyond what we currently know, we must attempt to accomplish things that haven't been done before?!

Seriously dude! Get off your high horse for a second!


RE: Lazy!
By Motoman on 6/20/2013 12:32:39 PM , Rating: 2
Can you get it through your head that some basic laws of physics can't be changed?

You're like someone who's complaining that they weigh too much, and your solution is finding a way to reduce the gravitational force.

Dude. Get a grip.


RE: Lazy!
By chripuck on 6/20/2013 12:45:44 PM , Rating: 2
Two words: quantum physics.

The basic laws of physics can't explain how we got here or how or universe is expanding at an accelerated rate. There are elements of our existence that we haven't even thought of, much less discovered or know how to harness.

The idea that you sit here declaring absolutely that it will never happen is the truly laughable part. You're the one who needs to get a grip.


RE: Lazy!
By Motoman on 6/20/2013 12:50:52 PM , Rating: 2
Two words: irrelevant assertion

Do we have lots to learn? Yup. Will we be changing long-standing theories on the way? Yup.

Is there the slightest reason to believe that the most fundamental laws of physics, like the strong and weak forces for example, can actually be *changed*?

No.

Induction fields are very simple. They're very well understood. There's not any available information that suggests they can be changed as is being asserted.

That's not someone who needs to get a grip. That's someone who is used to using critical thinking skills.

If I ran around declaring that there were invisible green 7-D aliens that lived in my belly button, would I get to tell you that you need to "get a grip" because you wouldn't accept that assertion? Or even declare that it was reasonably possible?

No. Because it's not reasonably possible.


RE: Lazy!
By linconmaples on 6/20/2013 12:55:31 PM , Rating: 2
I do get what your saying about physics. Specifically electromagnetic propagation and coupling whether is be inductive or capacitive.

I do think we have the technology right now to make this work.

An antenna array with each horn having load sensing capability. The un-used antennas are shut down to a low power state when no inductive load is sensed. As someone moves through the home there is a hand off between antennas maintaining efficiency and power distribution. The exact design of the antennas, array structure, and number of antennas are all TBD... obviously.

This kind of transmit/receive array is well understood and is the basic building block of AESA type radar systems.

Once again our mil tech has what we need to change our lives. We just have to get the tech in the hands of civy engies.


RE: Lazy!
By Motoman on 6/20/2013 12:58:47 PM , Rating: 2
That's great in that you can have the load-sensing low-power-state thing. But when in use, the inductive field is still going to be as lossy as ever.

If you're trying to imaging some kind of directionalized energy transfer, you're not talking about an inductive field anymore. That would be something else entirely...


RE: Lazy!
By linconmaples on 6/20/2013 1:15:42 PM , Rating: 2
There is nothing inherently lossy about energy transfer through electromagnetism. Typically what determines this is the transmit and receive mechanism and freq charactistics. From a theoretical sense if the antennas are designed properly one could have near 100% energy transfer. This of course is ideal and we would never reach quite that high.

The transfer of energy through the inductive term of the electromagnetic field is exactly directed energy transfer. It's the receive and transmit that doesn't catch all that energy.

Also, given the weight and volume that a battery consumes for current mobile devices this could be far more profound than simply not plugging in your phone. I'm not sure who to bet on in this race- better battery tech or wireless energy transfer.


RE: Lazy!
By Motoman on 6/20/2013 1:26:41 PM , Rating: 2
Mmmm, any kind of field induction is always going to have significant loss to the environment. My assertion is that even if the loss is dropped to like 1%, it's still an unacceptable additional amount of loss placed on top of all the other inefficiencies we already have (like the oft-mentioned-in-this-thread A/C adapter).

We've been messing with field induction for a long time...and batteries. I think there's still some marginal improvements available in both, but I don't see any reason to think there's any earth-shattering new discoveries to be made in either.

We need batteries, as a necessary part of mobile electronics. We don't really "need" wireless charging. Although as noted if we can come up with a way to do it with losses that are well and truly negligible, then I'm all for it.


RE: Lazy!
By linconmaples on 6/20/2013 1:43:46 PM , Rating: 2
I totally agree. If we are using this kind convoluted wireless scheme to simply charge a device which could be otherwise wall plugged then that is just a waste of money. I don't think the market will ever bare this out. Why buy a fancy 300$ wireless charger when I can do it faster with a 2$ plug in. We haven't even talked about the time factor between wired and wireless charging.

I think the really cool deal here is dumping the battery all together. The batteries, associated power conversions, and storage losses open up some opportunity for innovation.

IF (big if here) we could slip a true wireless mobile power source into a product with the same overall losses and footprint as a battery system then that would be a game changer. Not just for fart phones, but jesus, I've been waiting for a wireless powered signal and speaker system since I was like 12. We might have a snowballs chance at supplying the kind of wattage needed to run some 6" speakers.

I've known people with these silly mat chargers that STILL forget to put the damn phone on the thing to charge, and now instead of a quicky 30 min or something to get you back up and running they are looking at much longer... and then they plug the phone into a standard charger when their wife isn't looking LOL.


RE: Lazy!
By BRB29 on 6/20/2013 2:18:20 PM , Rating: 2
You must hate the world then because phone wireless chargers are already standard in some cars. It doesn't cost $300, more like $100. A wired charger cost $12-30.


RE: Lazy!
By linconmaples on 6/20/2013 2:37:18 PM , Rating: 2
If they are standard options inside a new automobile then I don't think you really know how much they cost. You know what the dealer tells you.

The wireless chargers worth their salt and actually usable cost bucks.

It's very hard to get anything more than a trickle charge out of these things.

And on wired chargers... all depends on what your charging. I can find a wall adapter that's hundreds of dollars... but these aren't the kind of applications wireless charging is ready to tackle.

I don't know if its exactly 2$ or 300$ or whatever... they are an order of magnitude more expensive either way.


RE: Lazy!
By BRB29 on 6/20/2013 2:44:18 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9S...

charging mats are everywhere. They are wireless chargers using the same kind of tech.

The new field induction systems that actually give more distance between charger and battery will cost more now. It will be cheaper in the future when economy of scales takes place.

Whatever everyone is saying, this tech will go mainstream regardless of what "inefficiency" you may think. The overall cost of this loss is minimal overall. The convenience and simplicity it brings outweighs the cost.

GE produced a wireless charger for EVs. I don't know why you're saying we're not ready. The only reason these chargers are not ready is probably because EV is not mainstream.


RE: Lazy!
By tigz1218 on 6/20/2013 12:23:35 PM , Rating: 2
He also fails to take into consideration the amount of waste these wires take up in landfills, the amount of energy that goes into making them, shipping them, etc...

I would hate to have a mind that was bound by existing rules, never thinking that rules can be bent or broken.


RE: Lazy!
By Motoman on 6/20/2013 12:27:16 PM , Rating: 2
...seriously? You think you're going to compare the production cost of a wire to a lifetime's worth of massive electrical loss by field induction charging?

I would hate to have a mind that's so wildly incapable of critical thinking that you can't accept that you're wrong.

I've asked you to show me proof that I'm wrong, and you can't do so. You need to accept that you're wrong instead.


RE: Lazy!
By ikjadoon on 6/20/2013 1:10:06 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Lazy!
By Motoman on 6/20/2013 1:27:02 PM , Rating: 2
[tips his hat]


"It seems as though my state-funded math degree has failed me. Let the lashings commence." -- DailyTech Editor-in-Chief Kristopher Kubicki














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