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Print 88 comment(s) - last by Go_Plugless.. on Jun 26 at 9:42 PM

It's only for the Chevrolet Volt and Nissan Leaf

Bosch is giving electric vehicle (EV) drivers a wireless charging option, and even new financing plans to help them afford it. 

Bosch Automotive Service Solutions teamed up with Evatran Group Inc. to offer a Level 2 240-volt wireless charging unit. It's only compatible with the Chevrolet Volt and Nissan Leaf for now, but will open up to other models later. 

Bosch recently announced its wired charging system, Power Max home charging. It only costs $449 while the new wireless system costs a whopping $3,000 -- but Bosch believes that convenience will be key to sales of the expensive wireless option.


“The main reason is convenience,” Kevin Mull, vice president of business development at Bosch Automotive Service Solutions told PluginCars. “We think this is a very viable future technology and over time, with advancements in technology, the price will start to come down.”

To help EV drivers who want the wired or wireless system, but can't afford it, Bosch is offering financing options. Option #1 includes $0 down with no monthly payments for 12 months if repaid in full in a year for charging stations that cost $1,000 or more. Option #2 offers $0 down and a five-year 2.99 percent loan on charging stations of $3,500 or more (including installation).

Source: Plugin Cars



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RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/14/2013 5:13:28 PM , Rating: 1
Reposted from previous articles on this topic, since it's important:

Loss on field-induction charging is about 10%. 10% is pretty huge, especially when taking into account the apparent size of the target population.

And especially granted the state of our power grid, which already loses a lot to the environment, and is already overtaxed...adding additional waste is a really stupid idea.

Let's make up some numbers.

There's ~8 million people in NYC. Let's say that, on average, they live 2 people to a household. Then let's say that half of those households have cars. Then let's say half of those would have an electric vehicle such as this. That's 1 million electric cars if you've managed to follow the arithmetic.

Let's say that it costs $50 a month to charge said vehicle. That's $50 million dollars a month spent just in NYC on electricity for these cars.

...and at a loss rate of 10%, that means that 5 million dollars' worth of electricity was just flushed down the toilet in a month. $60 million a year - wasted. Generated, transported, delivered...and thrown away.

Just in one city.

That seem like a good idea to you?

Change the numbers around all you want, if you don't think that $50 a month is a good number, or if you think 10% is too high, or whatever. Kind of doesn't matter. Even if it was 1% - that's still $6 million a year that got thrown in the trash.

Plug your damn car in.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By mrbios on 6/15/2013 7:03:07 AM , Rating: 2
So? If we want to piss away our money, that's our right as American citizens.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/15/2013 10:04:04 AM , Rating: 1
Spoken like a true American retard.

On an individual level? Sure...be a f%cktard with your money. But on a societal level? How about we *not* all get together and decide to waste hundreds of millions, maybe billions of dollars worth of electricity nationwide? Unless you think our economy is already so perfect that we can afford to just piss away that kind of money because we're so uninmaginably lazy that we can't be bothered to plug a car in.

You, sir, are exactly what's wrong with America. Your "don't care-ishness" is incredibly harmful.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Just Tom on 6/15/2013 8:09:51 PM , Rating: 2
Do you use a clothes dryer? If not you are pissing away money because you are too lazy to hang your clothes out. Do you walk to the store? Take mass transit? I could go on and on but the point is pretty obvious. I wouldn't pay 2.5K just to avoid plugging in my car twice a day but I see no problem with those people who wish to. But more than that, your scenario is extremely silly since you guess at every number.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By BRB29 on 6/15/2013 11:18:45 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Congratulations for being stupider than f%ck once again.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By flyingpants1 on 6/16/2013 4:06:16 AM , Rating: 2
Okay, and? Stupider is a word. You somehow manage to egg yourself in the face every time you post, lmao! Maybe it's time to take a break?


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By BRB29 on 6/17/2013 7:59:08 AM , Rating: 1
It's a word because the word is misused so often that it became mainstream as correct. For anyone with a proper education, they will not accept stupider as proper in spelling or grammatically. We all learned when we can add "-er" or not in middle and elementary school.

If you haven't noticed, even fabulosity is a word now.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Flunk on 6/17/2013 10:09:46 AM , Rating: 2
I don't agree with the guy you're arguing with but that's basically the definition of how words are formed.

All words started out as things that people were saying before they were formally acknowledged as part of the language. In American English "stupider" has actually been a word for long enough that most people wouldn't even think about it. A bit longer and no one is going to care.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By BRB29 on 6/17/2013 11:21:49 AM , Rating: 2
Sure, but that's like saying "ain't" is going be accepted. It's a real word for a while now too. It still will never be accepted.

As a general rule, you are not supposed to add "er" with words that has more than 1 syllable.

Please use stupider in your next paper you have to write and see the red pen fly.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Just Tom on 6/16/2013 6:07:30 PM , Rating: 2
The fact you are guessing at numbers is relevant since you are attempting, badly, to make an economic argument. I could guess at numbers that make this seem like the greatest thing in the world.

On a side note I find it somewhat entertaining that someone with such poor impulse control and confidence in his argument is calling me irrepressible.

I am impressed with your concern for our grid. I think you should lead by example and turn off your computer.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/17/2013 11:03:38 AM , Rating: 2
There are no vaguely believable numbers you could put into that equation that make it a good idea in any possible way. Ergo, the numbers chosen well and truly *don't* matter in this case - so long as they're vaguely believable. Start putting in negative numbers and all you prove is you're a duma$s.

I am unconcerned about anyone else's "opinion" on this subject, or whether or not the braindead children of this world are rating my post down. I don't make posts in order to get good ratings - I make post to make points.

And my point is irrefutable. Field-induction charging is a hopelessly awful idea, for individuals and society as a whole.

Anyone who wants to disagree has the right to do so. Just remember that you're wrong.


By cyberguyz on 6/18/2013 7:28:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I am unconcerned about anyone else's "opinion" on this subject, or whether or not the braindead children of this world are rating my post down. I don't make posts in order to get good ratings - I make post to make points.


What are you? A 12 year old? All the name calling you are spouting I would expect to see on a 4th grade schoolyard. You realize that when you act like a 12 year old, the opinions and points you make are likewise treated as coming from a 12-year-old.

Thus any valid points you actually manage to interject with your rages ends up being dismissed as irrelevant when the source of that opinion is viewed. Sorry, but when you act like a child, you are treated like one.

Perhaps one day when you grow up to be a big boy you will learn that acting like a grade-school bully won't give your opinions any credibility. Not in here.


By bkiserx7 on 6/17/2013 2:03:25 PM , Rating: 1
Heaven forbid the technology become more efficient over time...And you think all the adapters we use on a daily basis are 100% efficient?


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By cyberguyz on 6/15/2013 10:19:24 AM , Rating: 1
Who the frig cares?

You want to whine about inefficiency, look at the power supplies on your electronic equipment. The average desktop computer has a 15-25% power conversion loss pulling power from the wall (80 PLUS Bronze - 80 PLUS Platinum drops that down to just under 10%). The Average Dell, HP or Lenovo will be in the bronze range to reduce manufacturing costs. Hell, the charger for your laptop is about 10% power loss. How many people use computers for home and business? Compared to plug-in cars?

Personally I think 10% loss is pretty damn good for inductive power transfer. It is a hell of a lot better than what I listed just above. If I were driving an electric car, I would be all over this. Something that will save me the hassle of remembering to plug in my car? I park it at night in the middle of a huge rainstorm or blizzard, and sure as shit stinks the last thing I want to do is futz around plugging in the damn car! Just park the car in my driveway and it handles the charging business? Hell yeah! Sign me up baby!


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/15/13, Rating: 0
By cyberguyz on 6/16/2013 9:59:09 AM , Rating: 2
And all people that think simply plugging in the car to the power grid as the only way to charge it are the biggest f%cktards of them all.

Learn to think outside the box son.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By superflex on 6/17/2013 12:20:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The problem with your example is there's not anything the user is doing to increase the inefficiency of their PC.

Ever hear of overclocking a CPU, Copernicus?
Me thinks you just like to argue on the internet.


By Motoman on 6/17/2013 2:16:12 PM , Rating: 2
And how many people actually do that, Dipsh1ticus?

Methinks you have no valid points to bring up, and are digging for something else to say...because you like to argue on the internet.

Regardless, the "may as well do this wasteful thing since some other thing is wasteful too" argument is patently idiotic to start with.

So what if your PC isn't 100% efficient? That's not justification to waste *more* energy. Imagine if Congress passed a new budget that had a bigger deficit than the one we already have - "hey, we're already spending more than we have, so why not spend a little more?"

That's basically the argument you're making.

Also, PCs serve an important societal purpose. Saving 2 seconds because you didn't have to put a plug in a socket serves no purpose at all.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By FaaR on 6/16/2013 11:40:35 AM , Rating: 2
Who cares? Anyone with at least half a brain to their person, I should think.

By the way, your comparison isn't even valid in the first place. While desktop computers may have so-so efficient power supplies, at least they DO something with that power (run the computer, even if some of it is lost in the process), this is just electricity going up in smoke for no reason whatsoever. If put in the term of your silly comparison, it'd be like the power cord to your desktop computer burning off 10% of every watt going through it as heat, for no reason.

You don't need a wireless charger for your electric car. Don't be a ridiculous moron. In fact, you don't need a wireless charger for anything, it's a complete waste in every way.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By cyberguyz on 6/16/2013 1:43:38 PM , Rating: 2
You really aren't the sharpest tool in the shed are you there Flash.

Are you actually sitting there and trying to tell me that the computer you are writing your garbage on is 100% energy efficient? OMFG, Are you really that stupid? Don't have kids and you might qualify for a Darwin award when you die.

Let's try this another way since you don't seem to grasp the concept of energy efficiency.

How do you wash your clothes? Do you use a washing machine or do you take them down to the stream and beat them on a rock? You know, the latter is 100% energy efficient. Do you put your wet clothes in a dryer or are you hanging them up on a clothes line? Tell us which one wastes more energy. After all you con do both things in other ways that use none of the planet's resources. Taken that way both are a 100% waste of energy - not 10%... 100% .

So, are the folks who use washing machines or dryers morons because they are wasting energy? According to your faulty reasoning, they most certainly are.

Summary: You don't need a washing machine to wash your clothes. In fact you don't need a washing machine for anything - it is a complete waste in every way.

But which is more convenient (big tip here - take a note of this magic word)? People have been known to pay huge amounts of money in the name of convenience even if it means wasting energy.

Sure, wireless charging is less energy efficient than plugging in with a wire. So what? It is more convenient than remembering to plug in whenever you park. So is using a washing machine or a clothes dryer more convenient than their energy-friendly alternatives. People will determine if the convenience of a product outweighs the alternative methods of doing the same things even if there is a trade-off in energy consumption.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/17/2013 11:12:48 AM , Rating: 3
Here's more proof of why people like you are f%tards who really should just be deported before you do more damage to our society...

The fact that you clueless children keep bringing up washing machines and driers is utterly retarded. Washing machines and driers aren't simply "conveniences" similar to the a$s-smackingly profound apathy and laziness that would be required to use field-induction charging for you car instead of spending 2 seconds to plug it in.

Washing machines and driers, along with other relatively modern appliances, helped to double our available workforce. Before then, one household member (stereotypically the mother) would have to simply be at home all the time doing nothing but "housekeeping." Before the clothes washer and drier, wives would spend hours a day just on cleaning clothes. Having a washing machine and a drier meant that *hours* a day could be spent on something else...and eventually, with enough modern appliances, it became possible for women to enter the workforce and not be chained the household like a domestic slave.

And now you raging dipsh1ts are trying to compare wasting a billion dollars' worth of electricity a year by using field induction charging to having washing machines and driers? Who, exactly, is that going to liberate? How many hours of drudgery are you going to save every day by having that field induction charger?

Oh, that's right. None. A handful of seconds, at best. Probably 1% of the time it takes to put gas in a normal car. That's what you're going to save. While giving a giant "f%ck you" to our grid and the high cost of generating, distributing, and delivering power.

So no - THERE IS NO POSSIBLE COMPARISON between such appliances and what you ignoramuses are wanting to do with your field induction chargers. None at all. And the very notion that you think there is proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that you're hopelessly idiotic and really should be removed from the gene pool.

Any and all arguments in favor of field induction charging are *wrong* and there is no changing that irrefutable fact. So go f%ck yourselves.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By 7Enigma on 6/17/2013 12:12:32 PM , Rating: 2
HAHAHA, now we're at a billion dollars of wasted charging due to inefficiency? I love these magical numbers you come up with! I didn't know that my car outside is electric. Maybe I have an induction charger because I don't ever remember plugging it in, but maybe the "gas" I swear I fill up with is really energy water?

What ever you do, don't look at ICE or solar power. Those are nowhere near 90% efficiency....

Geez I hope someone got a hold of your account because you are coming off as a raving lunatic.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/17/2013 12:19:56 PM , Rating: 2
A billion dollars a year is a pretty defensible number if you assumed a largescale market base for EVs and they were using field induction charging.

I showed a pretty reasonable calculation above that NYC alone might toss out $60 million a year on their own.

As for your rant about "I didn't know my car was electric"...WTF are you smoking? Demonstrate to me where I said it was.

As for the continuing use of retarded comparisons to other invalid analogs, like ICE or solar power not being efficient either...

Firstly, I'm not saying they are. Secondly, it's irrelevant. Field induction charging would be net-new to our society, it would waste massive amounts of energy from an already overtaxed grid, and provide ZERO benefit to society. And of course, the manufacturing and distribution network for gas/diesel is a different one from our electrical grid - we're not teetering our grid because an ICE car doesn't get mileage that's up to your "standards."

Saving 2 seconds because you didn't have to plug a cord in is not a benefit to society.

The only thing "raving" around here is the depth of your stupidity.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By BRB29 on 6/17/2013 12:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
EVs charge mainly at night when power plants actually need people to use it because it's not easy to power down a plant.


By Motoman on 6/17/2013 1:03:22 PM , Rating: 2
Irrelevant. The point is that people here are advocating throwing away massive amounts of power because they think a few seconds of their time is more important. It isn't. And besides, if these things are in parking lots where you drive to work, then the recharge is happening during the day.

The amount of time saved plugging an EV in vs. putting gas in an ICE car is almost infinite anyway. A few seconds vs. a few minutes.

Plug your car in. No social good is served by saving those few seconds, and the waste is a big social detriment - regardless of when it happens.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By arthur449 on 6/15/2013 10:43:02 AM , Rating: 2
Your example is thought provoking, but perhaps choose a more car-friendly city. According to the 2000 census (I know, oooold) only 44.3% of NYC households own or have access to a car.

Despite the population difference, Los Angeles has a higher overall volume of automobiles. And Seattle has a surprisingly high ratio of 743 automobiles per 1,000 residents.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Reclaimer77 on 6/15/2013 2:36:12 PM , Rating: 2
Totally agree.

The only legitimate use of these I can picture is ares where it's not feasible to run power lines and maintain traditional plug-in stations.

But for someone to use one of these in their own garage, when an outlet is 3 feet away? Disgustingly wasteful.

But this just goes to show what I've been saying and what we already know. People don't buy cars to "save the planet". Generally more selfish personal motives are in play.

This would be the equivalent of an ICE owner dumping ~15% of their tanks gasoline on the ground, just because they can. But because electricity is so cheap, and you don't pay for it on-use and are just billed monthly, there are idiots who think using wireless charging is okay.

It's like those hand-dryers in public restrooms. Think about how many of those damn things are in use in a typical city. It might surprise people to know I actually DO think about energy waste, but seriously. Those things waste a ton of power collectively all in the name of reducing paper use, which is 100% renewable!


By cyberguyz on 6/16/2013 10:40:06 AM , Rating: 2
Your example of hand dryers breaks here:

But how much money in energy does it take to recycle all those paper towels. How much does it cost to keep more janitors on staff to manage the waste and replenish the paper towel supplies? What about when this does not take place in time and the paper towels runs out (More than once I've dried my hands on my pants!). How much do all those paper towels cost - particularly when dang few people use only one (do you? I don't). How much does it cost to keep having plumbers come in to unplug the toilets because childish/stupid people try to flush paper towels either on purpose or in ignorance?

There is a lot of legitimate uses for inductive charging. I've provided several examples of possible benefits in this thread already. Not the least of which is that not everyone having and electric car will be parking it in their garage. I don't park my cars in my garage (there is too much crap in mine). My cars sit in the driveway with no power plugs anywhere near. If I had inductive charging, I can embed the charging pad in mty driveway and park right on top of it - never having to remember or worry about plugging in. Whatr about all the folks that lkive in high rise urban condos? A lot of those folks don't have a power plug anywhere near their parking slots. Mind, this might prove a problem regardless of how you want to charge your electric car, but it does open the possibility for the condo management garage builder to install sealed inductive pads in the asphalt of a percentage of these spaces when they are paving the parking garage.

Putting actual power plugs into the asphalt would be a little more prone to problems when damp cars park over them though there are ways to get around that too. I would just find having to use them a bother.


By superflex on 6/17/2013 11:05:09 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's like those hand-dryers in public restrooms.

Or like 1000w watt PSUs, overclocked CPUs and dual GPUs in a computer. Who needs that much power?
Oh that's right. The WOW dragon master hypocrites here at DT.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Scientist87 on 6/15/2013 8:59:45 PM , Rating: 2
Hmm. My disabled Aunt has an electric vehicle and I will be installing one of these for her ASAP. She has a fair amount of difficulty connecting and disconnecting the charge cord.

I guess that makes us both "f%cktards".


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/15/2013 10:25:22 PM , Rating: 2
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that if your aunt has trouble plugging something into a socket, then she probably shouldn't driving.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By cyberguyz on 6/16/2013 10:17:33 AM , Rating: 2
Whether someone is fit to drive or not, is not up to you to decide. If I am in a wheelchair and I want to f%ckin drive my plug-in van, I f%ckin damn well will - regardless of what you or anybody else has to say about it. And if I don't happen to be quite able to plug in my car every time I pull into the drive way and want to use inductive charging, then sue me. That's MY decision - not yours. If you want to call me a f%cktard (you seem use that word so much you might as well copyright it), again I couldn't give a rat's ass what you or any other tree-humper thought about it.

Welcome to a world that does not revolve around your idea of perfection and where everyone has a mind of their own to do as they damn well please. I'm not in a wheel chair. I am not 80 years old. But if I had an electric car and had the opportunity to get one of these, I would be all over it.

And contrary to what you are saying here, so would you . It wouldn't take to many thunderstorms, blizzards or hailstorms to convince you that electric car sitting in your driveway is a pain in the ass to plug in every f%ckin night and be looking with envy at all your neighbors that those that don't have to.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/17/2013 11:15:36 AM , Rating: 2
If you're fit to drive, whether in a wheelchair or not, you're fit to plug a cord into a socket.

If you're not fit to plug a cord into a socket, I'm going to guess you're not fit to drive.

Your rage is misplaced. F%cktard.


By cyberguyz on 6/18/2013 7:42:23 AM , Rating: 2
While I could feed this by lowering myself your apparent 12-year-old schoolyard mentality, but this time I will leave you with this:

Sorry my trolling friend. Not throwing you any peanuts today.

Inductive Charging Rocks.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By SPOOFE on 6/15/2013 4:51:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
$60 million a year - wasted.

Divide by 1 million and that comes out to... $60 per person. The cost of a video game.

WHOOOOOAAAA!!! Stop the presses!!!!

Please. The "loss" is about the same as someone leaving a couple lights on.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/15/13, Rating: 0
RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By BRB29 on 6/15/2013 11:22:49 PM , Rating: 2
Capitalist economy doesn't always make society sense.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By Motoman on 6/16/2013 9:22:29 AM , Rating: 2
There are few things that individual do that actually add up to a massive detriment to society on a large scale.

This isn't something that affects only the individual. We're talking about destabilizing our electrical grid on top of wasting a billion dollars a year from our national economy.

It's sheer stupidity, and there's no possible way out of that fact.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By BRB29 on 6/17/2013 8:05:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's sheer stupidity, and there's no possible way out of that fact.

No, nobody is denying it's inefficient and stupid to use on a mass scale. We're saying regardless of how stupid the product is, the consumer has the right to decide what to buy. If we were to remove all the products that are dumb and/or harmful to society, we wouldn't have much of anything left.


RE: If it sells, then good for Bosch
By superflex on 6/17/2013 11:12:41 AM , Rating: 2
You mean like driving a V-8 vs a plug in electric or installing low flow toilets and shower heads in your house?
Here in America it's all about choice. I guess you just think your choice is the best. Get over yourself Mayor Bloomberg.


By Motoman on 6/17/2013 1:05:21 PM , Rating: 2
Justifying doing something stupid because something else is also stupid is...stupid.

"Honey, please don't go cliff-diving...you've never done any diving before and you might get killed!"

"SFTU mom, walking down the stairs is dangerous! Now hold my bong while I try a McTwist off this cliff over a kiddy pool."


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