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Ford says 66% of new cars we use four-cylinder engines by 2020

With the looming CAFE fuel economy standards, just about every automaker out there is pushing hard to migrate from larger displacement engines to engines with a smaller displacement, typically using a turbocharger to get the same sort of power output. The benefit of this is that it allows drivers to have the same performance with improved fuel economy.

One of the most successful automakers at making this transition away from higher displacement engines has been Ford with its line of EcoBoost power plants. Detroit News reports that Ford is projecting an increase in sales for vehicles using four-cylinder engines and that by 2020 66% of all new vehicles will use smaller displacement four-cylinder engines.

"I think it's maybe a stretch. But I don't find it implausible," said Bill Visnic, senior editor at the car research site Edmunds.com, in a telephone interview. "If you look at where things have been going segment by segment, except pickups, you could say that's been the trend."

In 2008, only 40% of new vehicles sold used four-cylinder engines compared to 53% today. Currently, the majority of small and medium-size cars on the automotive market come standard with a four-cylinder engine. Most compact SUVs also come standard with four-cylinder engine. Full-size pickups and full-size SUVs currently come with six and eight-cylinder engine options. In 2012, sales of pickup trucks accounted for 13% of all new market sales.
 
Mike Osmotoso of LMC Automotive notes that to achieve that 66% goal, "[Ford would be] expecting pickups and full-size SUVs to virtually disappear."

Considering that the Ford F-150 is the automaker's best-selling vehicle, the more likely scenario would have entry-level trucks using EcoBoost four-cylinder engines producing the same power output as current base level V-6 engines.

Source: Detroit News



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RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By alpha754293 on 5/21/2013 1:10:41 PM , Rating: 2
I don't understand why people would think this.

You DO realize that FHWA Class 8 tractors weigh SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN their GVWR of 80,000 lbs., right? Considering that the rear tandem axle has a gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of 40,000 (Kenworth T680) lbs., I'm going to guess that the tractor itself is somewhere between 10,000-25,000 lbs.

By the logic below (and various other people have commented on the same or very similiar/along the same lines) - that would be saying that the Class 8 tractors can't do their job because they weigh less than their load. But that's OBVIOUSLY not a true statement. And it's also OBVIOUS that if you can do it with a heavy truck (Class 8); there is NOTHING that stops pick-up truck makers from taking a page out of that.

This is just my long-winded way of saying the weight of the pick-up truck as very little to do with the towing capacity.

Remember that kinetic energy is 0.5*m*v^2. If you have 4000 lb pickup towing a 6000 lb boat, you're moving 10,000 lb. If you have a 3000 lb pickup towing the same 6000 lb boat, now you're only moving 9000 lbs. You can check my math here, but 9000 lb is < 10,000 lb. Which means that it would take less torque and therefore; less power to move it and keep it moving. (Conversely, if you keep it at the same torque level, then you'll just accelerate faster.)

Strength of materials starts to mean MORE (since they will play a MUCH bigger role).

And this is the beautiful thing about engineering - you can DEFINITELY engineer stuff to carry more than its own weight. (cf. airplanes). And pickup trucks are no different.

There's nothing that stops a VW 900 hp Golf pusher-puller from towing the very same 6000 lb boat. You'd probably be putting a lot more strain on the Golf, but then again - you can beef up the Golf as well to do that job.

There's also nothing that says that you can't throw a hitch on the 2014 Corvette Stingray (with its 450 hp, 450 lbf.ft of torque) to tow once again, said 6000 lb boat. You'll probably bottom the car out, but...there are things that you can do to/for that as well. *rolls eyes*

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By StanO360 on 5/21/2013 1:19:19 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think that's the point. The point is, if you are hauling heavy loads, the weight savings provide only slight fuel saving as it's such a small portion of the overall load.

But the reality is most trucks are driven without loads most of the time, but they have to be able to carry a load when needed (which as you point out they can). If a load is carried daily, clearly the buyer will choose a diesel or other high torque engine.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By Samus on 5/21/2013 2:02:34 PM , Rating: 2
I'll make this simple analogy for you guys who don't understand the concept of a truck towing a load heavier than itself:

I weigh 170lbs but can lift 250lbs.

It doesn't break the "laws of physics" and it isn't Voodoo. It's reality. Anything can be "stronger" than its own weight, especially vehicles.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By Amiga500 on 5/21/13, Rating: 0
RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By alpha754293 on 5/21/2013 2:03:32 PM , Rating: 2
"Trailer brakes" isn't the "weight of the pick-up truck" now is it?

;)

Brake rating/braking capacity is an entirely different measure.

Electronic brake force distribution is also something else entirely different.

Totally and completely separate things. They're interrelated only because everything affects everything else. (Which is what makes automotive engineering fun and interesting at times.)

If you have enough time and you're REALLY that interested, I can go into how you rate brakes and the entire braking system if you REALLY want to know.

And I can spend probably just as much time on the very closely related brake force calculations/engineering aspect of the entire braking system (which is probably part of the rating seminar anyways...). And then we can finally put the final piece of the puzzle by letting the mass of the vehicle be a variable rather than a fixed, constant value in the computations, and if you head hasn't exploded at that point, this probably will. :oD

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By Amiga500 on 5/21/2013 2:40:12 PM , Rating: 1
Typical pickups don't have EBD lines for the trailer. Therefore the trailer will brake in a straight line... which is an issue when turning.

Go ahead with the heavy maths if you want - the day job is CFD.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By alpha754293 on 5/22/2013 2:29:06 PM , Rating: 2
What makes you think that you'll need EBD for your trailer?

So I'll entertain this thought exercise of yours for a moment and run with the hypothetical:

If your trailer has EBD (which is really just another version of glorified ABS), how would you prevent the trailer yaw rate due to EBD from being HIGHER than your the yaw rate of your lead towing pickup?

And if you have a 4000 lb pickup towing a 6000 lb boat, what's the weight transfer during braking? So how much would EBD really be able to help you? How would you coordinate the trailer EBD to the towing pickup's EBD?

Think about what you're suggesting...how would you pull it off?

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By Spuke on 5/21/2013 2:12:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In order to safely brake and simultaneously turn the vehicle, you need to ensure that there is not an overly large reliance on the trailer brakes and that the tractor retains sufficient authority over the drawbar.


Complete garbage (see I can do that too).

If you're towing a load that's greater than the tow vehicles GVWR, which if you're towing anything you are, you ARE overly relying on the trailers brakes! LOL! The tow vehicle is NOT designed to brake anything over its own GVWR. The trailers brakes are explicitly for that purpose. In order to brake and turn safely with a towed load, you just need to slow the f$&k down!


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By BRB29 on 5/21/2013 2:29:47 PM , Rating: 2
there are trailers without its own brakes.

Of course trailers brakes are for the trailers only.

When braking, you actually want the trailers to rely most of its braking power on the towing vehicle. This is to maintain more control. If the trailer is actually braking faster than the truck, then you lose control. It's a safety thing but you shouldn't brake and turn anyways, it's just unsafe.

In order brake and turn safely with any vehicle, you just need to slow down before the turn.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By Spuke on 5/21/2013 2:57:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
there are trailers without its own brakes.
And they are illegal if they're over a certain weight.

quote:
When braking, you actually want the trailers to rely most of its braking power on the towing vehicle.
Yes you want the combined braking power and yes it makes for stable braking but the not designed for over GVWR braking is still is a fact.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By BRB29 on 5/21/2013 3:19:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And they are illegal if they're over a certain weight.

Yes and that proves his point that trailers rely on vehicle brakes and tow vehicles are designed with that in mind.

quote:
Yes you want the combined braking power and yes it makes for stable braking but the not designed for over GVWR braking is still is a fact.


that's why there's a max tow limit and any trailers past a certain weight has to have brakes. The max tow weighs depends on how much braking the vehicle can provide along with vehicle. It cannot pass a certain %. If the vehicle has a low GVWR then it will have a lower tow limit. That's why the same vehicle with double wheels in the back have a higher GVWR and tow rating. Nothing changed except grip and braking capabilities.

If it's based on combined braking power then there wouldn't be a tow limit because the only variable would be trailer braking power. that wouldn't make any sense and your vehicle would be very unsafe.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By BRB29 on 5/21/2013 3:23:59 PM , Rating: 2
just to clarify before you bust out with more crazy logic. Tow rating is dependent on many things and not just braking.

http://www.rv.net/SharedCode/ford/output.cfm?id=29...

Gross Combination Weight Rating (gcwr): The total allowable weight of the tow vehicle, the trailer, the cargo in each, hitch hardware, fluids and occupants.

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (gvwr): The total allowable weight for the vehicle, including occupants, fluids, options, hitch hardware, cargo and trailer-hitch weight.

Gross Axle Weight Rating (gawr): The total allowable weight on an individual axle. This includes the weight of the tires, wheels, brakes and the axle itself.

Maximum Tow Rating: The manufacturer’s weight limit for towed loads. For conventional trailers, this normally includes a hitch-weight limit as well; for fifth-wheels, the pin weight is applied to the truck’s gvwr and its rear-axle gawr.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By Spuke on 5/21/2013 3:30:32 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yes and that proves his point that trailers rely on vehicle brakes and tow vehicles are designed with that in mind.
No that only proves law makers can make laws.

quote:
that's why there's a max tow limit and any trailers past a certain weight has to have brakes.
Max tow limits are determined by the manufacturer and state and local regulations. Max tow on my pickup is 16,000 lbs with a 5th wheel/gooseneck and 10k lbs with a bumper hitch. In CA, trailers over 1500 lbs require brakes. Other states are higher. Tow rating isn't based on GVWR, it's based on the weight handling capacity of each axle/tire. It just so happens that heavy axles contribute to a higher overall weight and in turn more GVWR.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By Spuke on 5/21/2013 3:31:26 PM , Rating: 2
Correction, GVWR is based on the weight handling ability of the axles and tires.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By alpha754293 on 5/22/2013 2:48:14 PM , Rating: 2
"If the vehicle has a low GVWR then it will have a lower tow limit."

Uh...half-truth. I haven't gone through and dissected all of the trailer tow calculations yet for work (that's coming up shortly) but from what I've been told, the relationship between trailer tow (weight capacity) and GVWR is not that straightforward.

There are a LOT of conditions regarding how you calculate trailer tow, how you rate it, and how those ratings relate to the GVWR of a vehicle.

Here is the old way of calculating conventional trailer tow capacity (I'm in the process of rewriting this anyways, hence why I'm researching or will be researching the trailer tow government regulations/stuff shortly):

=IF(OR(ISBLANK(ttlimit),ISBLANK(tongue_cg),ISBLAN K(tongue_per),ISBLANK(gcwr11)),"-",FLOOR((MIN((gvw- (ttcurb1+ttc1))/tongue_per,((rmaxgawr-((ttcurb1+ttc 1)-(ttcurbfrt1+ttcfrt1)))*wb)/(tongue_cg-zeroline)/ tongue_per,gcwr11-ttcurb1-ttc1,ttlimit)),ttround))< br />
And that's just ONE of the calculations. Note that GVWR is NOT included in that calculation.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By Amiga500 on 5/21/2013 2:43:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you're towing a load that's greater than the tow vehicles GVWR, which if you're towing anything you are, you ARE overly relying on the trailers brakes! LOL! The tow vehicle is NOT designed to brake anything over its own GVWR.


You miss my point... somewhat completely! :-)

See the other post above - the trailer brakes in straight lines (well, they are supposed to), but the tractor may want to turn. If the trailer >> tractor, then you have issues.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By Spuke on 5/21/2013 3:00:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If the trailer >> tractor, then you have issues.
You're missing a LOT of points as well. :) You still think your tractor is heavier or just as heavy as your towed load. If you're not accepting that as fact, well you're misinformed.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By Amiga500 on 5/21/2013 3:40:59 PM , Rating: 2
When did I (the man that posted about towing 4 tonnes with his 1.5 tonne pickup on down the page) ever say the tractor has to be heavier than the trailer?

(To avoid potential confusion the mathematical terminology >> means much greater than?)


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By Reclaimer77 on 5/21/2013 6:42:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
This is just my long-winded way of saying the weight of the pick-up truck as very little to do with the towing capacity.


You can't compare a semi-truck, which is designed from the ground up to do NOTHING but tow heavy loads, to a pickup truck passenger vehicle.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By theapparition on 5/22/2013 9:58:24 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. Not only that, but the drivers also have a higher level of driving certification (CDL) for operating towed loads.

Your average weekend warrior has no idea how to tow things safely. Good engineering can never overcome stupidity.

We can argue this all day long, but some physics can't be ignored. A heavier vehicle will be safer when towing anything. With a lot of good engineering, the risk can be reduced. But I guarantee that if manufacturers reduced truck weight, you'd also see a reduction in tow capacity. I have no issue with that, since 90% of trucks never tow a single thing in their lives. But I hope this doesn't come at the expense of still having trucks in the line up that can handle heavier loads.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By BRB29 on 5/22/2013 10:29:45 AM , Rating: 2
You are absolutely right. Most people don't understand load balancing but you can't really blame them. Towing every weekend is vastly overstating its use. Almost every truck owner I know tow maybe once a year for moving or camping.

A heavier vehicle is safer definitely. The point is that manufacturers and people have realized that they don't need all this towing capabilities for a regular F150. The demand for better fuel economy and every day practicality is higher than towing capability. So why not sacrifice some of that towing capability to save fuel and road wear?

After sitting in the new trucks, I realized that trucks are designed more towards comfort and convenience than being just a truck. It's just transforming more towards a car. Almost all SUV have lost their off road capability also.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By alpha754293 on 5/22/2013 2:22:04 PM , Rating: 2
So you're trying to tell me that a 1966 Chevrolet K1434 with a published curb weight of 3750 lb is safer than a 2012 Chevrolet Colorado 2WD with a published curb weight of 3728 lbs?

And the former has a GVWR of 5600 lb while the latter is only 5300 lb.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that the 1966 Chevy would be safer than the 2012 Chevy because it's heavier? Really?

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By theapparition on 5/23/2013 10:15:11 AM , Rating: 2
I'd think anyone with intelligence would understand the context is "all else equal". Certainly trying to compare two vehicles that are half a century apart isn't valid.

But in the context of towing, a heavier vehicle will always be safer to tow with....all else equal.


RE: "Disappearing" Trucks
By alpha754293 on 5/22/2013 2:57:56 PM , Rating: 2
Partially false.

Try spending 12 hours in one of those things. Why do you think they have sleeper cabs?

And at nearly the cost of a house, it'd be a REALLY expensive way for just hauling the kids around and groceries for your home. It isn't that it CAN'T do that. But it would be one heck of an expensive (and not very fast way) of doing it.

And if you don't think that pickups are built/designed around hauling loads, you're sorely mistaken.

Curb weight of a 2014 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 2WD with the 5.3L V8 is 5042 lbs. GVWR is 7200 lbs. GCWR with a 3.73 Rear Axle is 16700 lbs. and has a published max. conventional trailering with the 3.73 rear axle of 11200 lbs.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.


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