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The judge says lawsuits have become a business strategy

A Florida judge called both Apple and Google's Motorola Mobility out in court, saying that neither of them really wants to resolve these patent matters.

U.S. District Judge Robert Scola -- a federal judge in Miami, Florida -- said that Apple and Motorola Mobility are wasting the court's time with patent infringement lawsuits that they have no intention of solving.

“The parties have no interest in efficiently and expeditiously resolving this dispute; they instead are using this and similar litigation worldwide as a business strategy that appears to have no end,” said Judge Scola. “That is not a proper use of this court.”

Judge Scola's main issue is that Apple and Motorola Mobility currently have over 180 claims regarding 12 patents and are arguing over the meaning of over 100 terms. 

“Without a hint of irony, the parties now ask the court to mop up a mess they made by holding a hearing to reduce the size and complexity of the case,” wrote Judge Scola. “The court declines this invitation.”

The court has given Apple and Motorola Mobility four months to narrow the case down, and if they fail to do so, the case will be put on hold until all disputes over terms are resolved. 

Apple and Motorola Mobility have been tossing patent infringement lawsuits around since 2010. Many see these cases as a way of struggling for market share and pushing the competitor's products out rather than attempting to solve real issues. 

Source: Bloomberg



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Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 2:35:31 PM , Rating: 5
...especially Apple. You never invented anything, you never innovated anything, but instead built a cult and then hired a bunch of lawyers to abuse the patent system.

There will always be people stupid enough to buy shiny baubles based on propaganda. We can't fix that.

But we can fix the patent system...and Apple has done nothing lately if not shown a light on how easy it is to abuse the patent system and use it as a weapon to manipulate markets to your own illicit benefit.




RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By ROTFLCOPTER on 4/11/2013 2:41:52 PM , Rating: 3
While I agree with you fundamentally, there is no reason to limit the scope of your assertion to Apple. There are many different trolls out there that need to be killed. Apple just happens to be the most high profile player in the field.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By retrospooty on 4/11/2013 2:53:56 PM , Rating: 5
RAMBUS!


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By mjv.theory on 4/12/13, Rating: -1
By BRB29 on 4/12/2013 7:26:47 AM , Rating: 2
that's cause they usually put them out of business by other means.


By Totally on 4/12/2013 7:55:19 AM , Rating: 3
Even though they me just as bad as Apple, they're not trying to sue the world plus dog. They abused the system smartly.


By Flunk on 4/12/2013 8:46:34 AM , Rating: 3
Rambus did actually invent a few things... And then overextended the patents to the moon. So it isn't quite the same.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 2:57:46 PM , Rating: 3
Oh, I'm not limiting anything - which is why my statement was "especially Apple."

All patent trolls can suck it. As noted, Apple is the head of the class though.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Shadowself on 4/11/2013 6:23:49 PM , Rating: 2
Apple is by far not the "head of the class".

I would put that as Novell. They sued various companies over UNIX IP that it turned out that Novell didn't invent AND didn't even own! Other companies invented the IP in question in the suit. Other companies owned the IP in question in the suit.

I would even put RAMBUS as worse than Apple. The list goes on.

Whether you or I agree with Apple's assertion that they invented anything or not, at least they legally own the IP. (The issued patents are in Apple's name or legally transferred to Apple.)

And, as has been noted on these threads before, Reuters (no friend to Apple!) published a well researched study that showed in about 60% of the IP related suits Apple was the defendant or counter suing party, not the instigator.

AND, where has this judge been all his life? Lawsuits (legitimate or not) or threats of lawsuits (legitimate or not) has been a "business practice" of medium to large corporations for well over 100 years. It's just that it has gotten completely out of hand in the last couple of decades.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By sprockkets on 4/11/2013 7:37:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I would put that as Novell. They sued various companies over UNIX IP that it turned out that Novell didn't invent AND didn't even own! Other companies invented the IP in question in the suit. Other companies owned the IP in question in the suit.


Um, you seemed a bit confused here.

SCO claimed ownership of their UNIX thus wanting to sue users of Linux like IBM for copyright violations of "stolen" code, but Novell never fully transferred all ownership rights of it when they sold it to them. Novell themselves bought the rights to it many years ago.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Motoman on 4/12/2013 11:56:41 AM , Rating: 2
And also, SCO is long dead and buried. So even though they may have been the "head of the class" during that era, they're gone now. Leaving Apple.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By ROTFLCOPTER on 4/12/2013 2:19:51 PM , Rating: 2
I hate apple too, but man... I wonder who we would hate if Apple up and died....


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Motoman on 4/13/2013 1:46:53 AM , Rating: 2
Monster Cable and Bose. If all 3 of those companies died...I think maybe world peace would break out and all disease would disappear.


By Omega215D on 4/13/2013 4:08:41 AM , Rating: 2
I can think of one major player: Monsanto


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By karimtemple on 4/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Spuke on 4/11/2013 4:09:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think Apple has innovated plenty
Like what?


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By karimtemple on 4/11/13, Rating: 0
RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 4:37:01 PM , Rating: 2
I disagree.

The PalmOS device I had back then did everything I do now on a phone, and had the same interface. Icons on a screen. Multiple screens.

It could surf the web, it could text, it could do email, and it could play games.

Then the iPhoney showed up...and people were like "OMG it can surf the web, it can text, it can do email, and it can play games! And look! Icons on the screen! SQUEEEE!"


By Totally on 4/12/2013 7:59:39 AM , Rating: 2
I know that feel bro!

Sitting at the next table over thinking 'wtf', phones have been able to do so for awhile.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By karimtemple on 4/12/2013 8:58:51 AM , Rating: 1
What PalmOS did not do what create an entirely new software interface paradigm. This especially goes for the web browser. PalmOS was never intended for fingers. I had a T3 and then a Clie TH55, so you're not fooling me. Safari on iOS is the dictionary definition of innovative; what in f*%#'s name had the architectural cognizance to deal with the web using a touch interface in a comprehensive manner? Answer: NOT A SINGLE THING. Depending on your level of technical expertise you may not be able to see what I'm talking about, but going from browsing on PalmOS 5 to browsing on Mobile Safari is no small feat, and is almost an engineering marvel.

If you think "touching icons on a screen" is all iOS was doing then Apple wholly succeeded at separating the user experience from the software mechanics. It was so obvious that people would never like a software keyboard that when people liked the iOS keyboard, others refused to believe it. For years. This is partly because, also, predictive text was taken to a whole new level.

I can be a pretty dispassionate person at times, which is why I have no qualms about giving Apple its due credit despite disliking a lot of their actions so much. All I'm doing is making observations here. They're not sitting on more money than God because of their marketing department.

Well, not just because.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Motoman on 4/12/2013 11:59:18 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry, you're just simply wrong. There's nothing magically better about what happened between the PalmOS on my Treo and the iPhone.

You're all worked up emotionally trying to defend your position...but there's not much reality to back up your claims.

For all intents and purposes, the iPhones UI is the same as the Treo's with different icons. And a bigger screen for lack of a real keyboard of course.

No magic.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By karimtemple on 4/12/2013 1:46:34 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, well then, I am simply wrong. lol. Innovation is the same thing to you as magic?


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Motoman on 4/12/2013 1:58:29 PM , Rating: 2
You clearly don't understand the meaning of the word "innovation" - someone has helpfully posted that information in this thread though. You might find it handy.

"Magic" of course was your Lord and Master Steve Jobs' favorite thing to talk about. I'm pointing out that there was no such thing.

But, at least you can admit you're wrong. There may be hope for you yet.


By karimtemple on 4/12/2013 2:46:08 PM , Rating: 2
I don't use Apple products. My phone is a Note and the tablet I bought my mom is a Xoom (shut up it was cheap, and is running surprisingly well to this day). I just hate bad logic and BS more than I hate Apple. And I love arguing, so it's difficult for me to just hold my tongue when I see people being illogical.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Spuke on 4/11/2013 5:01:18 PM , Rating: 3
That's not innovation, that's taking something that already exists and refining it.

Innovation
1 : the introduction of something new

2 : a new idea, method, or device : novelty

Apple has done none of this.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By ven1ger on 4/11/2013 5:55:49 PM , Rating: 2
I won't get into whether or not Apple innovated or not. I'm not an Apple fan. But I do think they did help prod the mobile industry along a lot faster than the rate it was progressing at the time. They also made a lot of money also. While I'll admit that Apple helped to give the industry a good kick in the pants and that the industry is now fully moving along, the problem here is that Apple is no longer competitive and the use of Patents to stifle competition is largely Apple's fault in this. Typical Patent trolls are looking for a payout from businesses but what Apple is doing is more to prevent the competition.

This would have been the perfect opportunity for the market to band together to petition congress to have patent reform and to squash actual patent trolls that don't create anything but instead as Apple and MS have done either themselves or through proxies used patents as a business model to be anti-competitive. Because of the their business model, other companies are following the same practice with developing patent portfolios so they can either do the same.

Until the politicians realize that they need to fix this, I don't see how this will get any better as the courts can only recommend but cannot legislate no matter how much of a mess the government has made of this. Hell, even some of the courts have made a mess of it.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Spuke on 4/11/2013 7:18:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But I do think they did help prod the mobile industry along a lot faster than the rate it was progressing at the time.
I agree but THAT is not innovation. Were they instrumental in moving the industry to mobile? Yes! But there was no innovation there.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By BRB29 on 4/12/2013 7:32:26 AM , Rating: 3
rectangular shape with round edges is innovation. It's even patented.


By Cheesew1z69 on 4/12/2013 7:53:07 AM , Rating: 2
you forgot your sarcasm tag...


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By karimtemple on 4/12/2013 9:17:28 AM , Rating: 2
It's comical to me to imagine them being instrumental in moving the industry to mobile without a lick of innovation. That itself would be a success story, lmao. The entire industry shifted, other industries shifted, monoliths were cracked..... but not because of anything new. Laughing out loud.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Solandri on 4/12/2013 12:47:22 PM , Rating: 2
Success is a combination of innovation, functionality, usability, and marketing. Just because a product is successful doesn't necessarily mean it has all of these traits.

Apple is great at marketing (so is Microsoft, though not as much anymore). And they're also exceptional at usability (I'd say probably the best for the average lay person). Innovation is kinda so-so - they do a pretty good job of taking stuff that is already available in industry but hasn't been widely adopted yet, and packaging it into something that's simple for regular people to use. But they didn't necessarily invent the stuff, like Samsung/LG develooped OLEDs, or Seagate increases HDD storage density, or Intel improved 3D lithography. Outside of UI design, Apple is more of a parts assembler than an actual innovator. They're just really smart about which COTS parts they pick for their devices. Functionality is poor - they tend to leave out or cripple features which come standard in competing products.

And it's a bit of a stretch to say Apple were instrumental to moving the industry to mobile. PDAs and multi-function phones were already well-established industries before the iPhone. It was pretty clear by the early 2000s that the two were on a collision course and were going to merge. The early Palm and Blackberries were the initial result (incidentally, HTC originally made a name for itself with its PDAs). Apple just happened to have the first mega-hit after this merger. If they hadn't been around, the LG Prada probably would've been much more successful. And the industry would've rapidly followed to reach where we are today. As LG's Prada and Samsung's internal docs which Judge Koh barred as evidence indicate, many companies had iPhone-like phones in the design phase before the iPhone was ever announced.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By karimtemple on 4/12/13, Rating: 0
RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Cheesew1z69 on 4/12/2013 2:23:07 PM , Rating: 2
Who invented the widget?

Konfabulator co-founder Arlo Rose claims to have invented the widget, but the concept emerged years before Konfabulator shipped.

Some claim Apple invented the widget. The company's "Desk Accessories," conceived in 1981 and were small programs that brought useful tools and innovative multitasking to a non-multitasking environment.
The whole widget craze was predicted by the CEO of the company that invented it. The CEO was none other than -- wait for it! -- Bill Gates, and the company was, of course, Microsoft Corp.

Apple, doesn't "invent" anything...


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By karimtemple on 4/12/2013 2:34:00 PM , Rating: 2
Oh my God. lol.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Cheesew1z69 on 4/12/2013 3:56:58 PM , Rating: 2
"oh my god. lol"

retard...

http://www.ask.com/answers/78428201/who-invented-t...

you are wrong...


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By karimtemple on 4/12/2013 4:23:32 PM , Rating: 2
LOL


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Cheesew1z69 on 4/13/2013 4:11:40 PM , Rating: 2
Either prove it, or stfu... you are sounding like a TROLL right now.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By xti on 4/15/2013 1:32:34 PM , Rating: 2
i used to keep napkins with peoples phone numbers and drew a stick picture of them.

thus...i invented facebook.


By karimtemple on 4/16/2013 12:45:59 PM , Rating: 2
Answers (choose one):

1) Whoops! Too bad you didn't go to market, then! Next time get a patent.

2) The implication that Facebook is just a bunch of phone numbers and pictures is vacuous and borderline trolling.

3) I guess you did invent Facebook!! Is your lawyer any good? She could make you a very rich person.


By Motoman on 4/12/2013 1:59:25 PM , Rating: 2
Happens all the time. It's called "marketing."


By testerguy on 4/16/2013 2:21:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I agree but THAT is not innovation


Lets be very clear that by your ridiculous Apple-hate-fuelled definition of innovation, none of the mobile phone companies have innovated at all over the past 6 years, because for any feature or development you can come up with, I can point to an equivalent functionality on another device.

Or, to be more blunt, you're totally retarded and ignorant to assume that innovation has to lead to a new functionality , instead of a new or novel way to achieve that functionality.


By karimtemple on 4/12/2013 8:25:28 AM , Rating: 2
With this connotation, computing hasn't had an innovation since 1952. I'm actually inclined to agree, however it's not exactly conducive to the particular discussion at hand.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Tony Swash on 4/14/2013 7:49:49 AM , Rating: 2
This endless, semantic and ultimately desperate obsession with trying to prove that Apple is or is not innovative completely misses the point. Let's leave the loaded word 'innovative' to one side, as it is clearly a word liable to produce a hissy fit when used in relation to Apple, and instead think about real world technology markets, products, mutations and disruption. The question to ask is what products in any given market were clearly, in hind sight, disruptive, that is products that not only were very successful but ones that changed the market and changed the products in that market to such an extent that one can say that they caused a paradigm shift. Products that caused something new, and something big, to happen.

Looking back, and this is just a a few examples, I can think of a few. Windows was one such product, even though it was built on the back of Mac OS, it was Windows that changed the industry. Netscape and Google search are another couple of products that changed everything in their domain. None of these game changing products came out of the blue, all such products build on what went before, but all such paradigm shifting products rearrange what went before, assemble previously separate components, re-engineer things, to such an extent and in such novel ways that an explosive mutation takes place that ripples out astonishingly rapidly and changes everything that it touches and to which it is related.

What such game changing products have we seen in the 21st century? Facebook I think probably counts as one but what's relevant to the discussion here is that one company has come up with three such mutations in just a decade, and that is of course Apple. They were in chronological order:

iPod and iTunes (which were really a single product) which transformed the music industry.

iPhone and the App Store, which changed both the phone industry and the software industry.

iPad, which created a new global tablet market and which is profoundly changing the PC industry as well as transforming publishing, gaming and education.

So whether one uses the word 'innovation' or not in relation to Apple is neither here nor there. What is indisputable is that Apple, somehow, have triggered a wave of profound change several times in the last few years resulting from products they have released. And these products were released into markets where previously Apple were not present all.


By theapparition on 4/15/2013 9:59:47 AM , Rating: 2
For once, I agree with you. I really can't believe I'm saying that.

People get too wrapped up in "innovation". In the end, it really doesn't matter that much.

Execution is the key.

Beta predated VHS and was technically superior, but VHS executed better. The rest is history.

Windows OS executed better than Mac OS. And that's why 93% of the worlds desktops run a MS OS.

With regards to MP3 players, Apple was far from the first, but they executed better. Whether anyone wants to claim that's because technical reasons, the scroll wheel, iTunes, or even just because of trendy association and marketing, no one can deny the popularity of the device.

Similarly with the iPhone. Apple hit with the right product at the right time.

Personally, I don't believe Apple has innovated much, but it doesn't really matter in the end.

But keep in mind that argument goes both ways. Samsung has begun to steal much of Apple's thunder by out "Apple'ing" them.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Tony Swash on 4/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By sprockkets on 4/11/2013 7:39:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I can't be bothered to respond to the specifics of your flatulent petulance...


Oh, but you did, because you have to defend apple.

Tell me, still not going to own up to apple paying $368 million to a patent troll over bogus VPN patents to VirnetX? Or is patent trolling only OK when apple does it?


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Tony Swash on 4/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By sprockkets on 4/11/2013 8:51:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I see the aspergic tag team are back :)


I see you have no real clue on how to use that term, but we know you won't shut up either.

quote:
I repeat - IP and patent related legal action in the tech industries are utterly trivial and will have almost no impact on the evolution of the tech industry.


Sorry, but others beg to differ, seeing how IP related lawsuits alone cost the industry $83 billion in 2011, and around 1-7 million each lawsuit.

Nice of you to think all is peachy, that each small business or new startup has millions laid aside just for patent trolls.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Tony Swash on 4/12/13, Rating: -1
RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By drlumen on 4/12/2013 8:44:35 AM , Rating: 1
I don't care to do the research but I would bet money that if any company was able to stop another company for infringing of mobile comm IP it would have been Motorola. But they would have deserved that protection.

They deserved that protection because they did all the R&D (or licensing as needed) as part of a complete system. They had to create everything from the mobile units like 2 way radios, the first car phones, the transmission tower tech, amps, repeaters, base station equipment and related peripherals along with any special diagnostic equipment.

I can also guarantee that if they did sue a company for infringing patents that it wasn't over something as trivial as the font, shape or color of a single button (icon). They would have had much bigger fish to fry.

Would Motorola of old be a troll? IMO, absolutely not! Perhaps a monopoly but certainly not an IP troll. You have to give them credit where credit is due.

Apple on the other hand is grasping at straws because their iphone was designed to work in an existing ecosystem that was built and functional before they even had a phone.

I'll give Woz credit as he had some engineering chops that was used in the first Apple computer. But all they have done since is repackage and make proprietary what everyone else is doing. IMO, they got lucky with the iphone.


By Tony Swash on 4/12/2013 1:32:33 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
They deserved that protection because they did all the R&D (or licensing as needed) as part of a complete system. They had to create everything from the mobile units like 2 way radios, the first car phones, the transmission tower tech, amps, repeaters, base station equipment and related peripherals along with any special diagnostic equipment.


Poor guys.

What Motorola can't seem to do is sell phones for a profit. That's a bit of a show stopper for a phone company.

BTW Motorola sued Apple first.

quote:
IMO, they got lucky with the iphone.


How? In what sense did the several years of work done by Apple in the build up to the launch of the first iPhone, including all the development work on the hardware and new OS, as well as the years spent building the supporting iTunes ecosystem, constitute 'luck'.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By sprockkets on 4/12/13, Rating: 0
By Cheesew1z69 on 4/12/2013 4:54:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
"...some large company will patent some obvious thing [and use the patent to] take as much of our profits as they want.”
And try to sue the competition out of the market.


RE: Patent trolls can go f%ck themselves
By Tony Swash on 4/13/2013 3:43:53 PM , Rating: 2
The actual figure in the article you link to is $29 billion and is based on what the article calls "a relatively small sample of 83 companies, both small and large'.

I repeat - IP litigation is a trivial phenomena in relation to the scale of the global tech industries. An irritant and nothing more. A flea bite itches but it's still just a flea bite.


By testerguy on 4/16/2013 2:23:51 AM , Rating: 2
Wow, sprokkets total fail.


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