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Hon Hai reported a 19 percent sales decline for Q1 2013 compared to Q1 2012

Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. saw an unexpected yearly decline in the first quarter of 2013 thanks to shrinking demand for Apple's iPhone. Hon Hai reported a 19 percent sales decline for Q1 2013 compared to Q1 2012. While analysts were expecting quarterly decline from Q4 2012, they didn't see the yearly decline coming.

Hon Hai posted sales earnings of T$808.87 billion ($26.96 billion USD) for the quarter ended March 2013. This was a drop from T$988.34 billion in Q4 2012 and a further decline from T$1 trillion in Q1 2012. 

Hon Hai, which collects about 60 to 70 percent of its revenue from the iPhone and iPad, saw a decrease in sales due to low demand for the iPhone in particular. 

Apple has hard a hard time keeping up the momentum of its products, and it shows in the company's shares. Shares have fallen from $702.10 in September to $426.98 as of today. Also, Apple's iPhone only represented about 19 percent of worldwide smartphone shipments in 2012 while all Android-powered smartphones accounted for about 70 percent.

Android will even beat Apple in the tablet sector this year, according to a new report from IDC. IPad shipments are expected to make up 46 percent of the tablet market for 2013, down from 51 percent in 2012. Android-powered tablets are expected to increase their market share to 49 percent in 2013, up from 42 percent in 2012.

Samsung is a particularly strong competitor to Apple as far as Android-powered devices go. We even saw a bit of fear in Apple as Phil Schiller (Apple's senior vice president of worldwide marketing) talked trash about Android on the eve of the Samsung Galaxy S IV release. 

Samsung is even racing Apple to make a wearable device this year -- much like a smart watch -- and has plans to trump Apple's new spaceship campus with a more impressive headquarters in the U.S.

Source: Reuters



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RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By Tony Swash on 4/10/2013 1:02:48 PM , Rating: -1
quote:
Yup... Apple is clearly in the "repeat" part of a "lather, rince, repeat" cycle. The initial release of IOS in 2007 was a big step forward. Since then, not so much


You mean other than the launch of a new tablet business in 2010 which, having shipped 120 million iPads in the last three years, now earns more revenue than Microsoft's entire Windows business.

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/515c687ee...


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By retrospooty on 4/10/2013 1:42:25 PM , Rating: 2
You seem to have problems distinguishing business/finance from tech. Let me spell it out for you. Sorry if this sounds elementary, but, you DO seem to not understand context of conversions going on here (on a rregular basis I muight add)... Business/financial is about money. Technology is the more science/research/product related. IOS was made from technology that Apple and others invented and released in 2007. Revenue from 120 million iPads is financial. Get it numbnuts? Apple is doing fine with revenue, tech, not so much.

Saracasm back off... The iPad was a good product decision for sure, but its still the same old stagnating IOS from 2007. IOS was a big leap forward from other smartphones at the time. The iPad was just putting the same OS on a bigger screen device.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By Tony Swash on 4/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By retrospooty on 4/10/2013 3:29:06 PM , Rating: 3
"BTW you should glance up from you script - you may notice that the article is about sales performance :)"

You should look at what you are replying to. Karlostomy (the OP) said "History does suggests that apple goes through 'innovation cycles', however I sadly see nothing new on the Apple horizon that impresses at all. I feel that's being quite objective.". I added that I agreed and since 2007 with the initial IOS, they haven't done much at all. YOU replied to ME with a statement about revenue.

"So where does discussion of market share fall on that spectrum?"

Right about here... [from the article] "this year, according to a new report from IDC. IPad shipments are expected to make up 46 percent of the tablet market for 2013, down from 51 percent in 2012. Android-powered tablets are expected to increase their market share to 49 percent in 2013, up from 42 percent in 2012."

And yup... I am surprised by the sales #'s of tablets. I am surprised by the platform. I am surprised that I even bought two (much less one). They are quite alot nicer than I knew at release. A great product idea from Apple. They deserve the profits they reaped for the past few years... But again, now that competition caught up and surpassed and the tide is shifting. That is all anyone is saying. Its clear to anyone but you because as soon as "The precious" Apple is mentioned, you get all emotional and cant stand anyone that says anything negative about Apple. It must offend ou on a personal level.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By Tony Swash on 4/10/13, Rating: 0
RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By retrospooty on 4/10/2013 7:33:15 PM , Rating: 2
"So no answer to my question about where the issue of market share lies on your imaginary spectrum of permissible discussion topics"

As usual, you have no point, so you try to change it... The are no subjects that are off limits. What I was getting at is that Person A and person B were discussing technology and innovation and you jump in with your usual "So, Apple made more money". It wasn't part of the discussion. You had nothing to add because you know we were right, so you changed the subject to money.

" people's lives and technology meet in ways that changes the world."

I am glad you said that because that is where we differ and you go way off the tracks... That is what its all about, but when "people's lives and technology meet in ways that change the world" it is because of the tech, and the features not because of the profit. In other words, (to put it on your own favorite platform's perspective) the iPhone in your hand changed the way you interface with the internet and the world when it came out in 2007. Apple's profit margins did NOT change the way you interface with the internet and the world. Or did they?


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By TakinYourPoints on 4/10/13, Rating: 0
RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By retrospooty on 4/10/2013 11:36:32 PM , Rating: 2
I really don't care what you really don't see. I am really tired of repeating myself and really tired of reading you repeating yourself. I was really just talking to someone else.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By TakinYourPoints on 4/11/2013 6:02:43 PM , Rating: 2
What I see is reality.

You claim that a platform that sells less, has inferior hardware (a Nexus 10 can't even drive its display smoothly), no applications, and no online usage, has "surpassed" the platform that has sold magnitudes more, has much better hardware, and all the third party developer support.

I'll take whatever you're smoking.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By Cheesew1z69 on 4/11/2013 6:54:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What I see is reality.
LOL! Yea...ok...


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By retrospooty on 4/11/2013 7:17:28 PM , Rating: 2
I have no clue what you are talking about. I was going back and forth with Tony about him changing the subject from features and tech to finance and you, as usual, take one sentence out of context and want to derail the whole thread and make it another one of your dissertation about how the only things that matter are apps? You are so far up on your soapbox you aren't even having the same conversation as the people you are talking at LOL.... Pompous ass.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By TakinYourPoints on 4/12/2013 1:28:50 AM , Rating: 3
Here is context:

quote:
And yup... I am surprised by the sales #'s of tablets. I am surprised by the platform. I am surprised that I even bought two (much less one). They are quite alot nicer than I knew at release. A great product idea from Apple. They deserve the profits they reaped for the past few years... But again, now that competition caught up and surpassed and the tide is shifting.


You are specifically talking about tablets here.

You love lists. Here's a list of things a platform which has "caught up and surpassed" the iPad has.

- Slower hardware
- Choppier UI/browser and worse touch responsiveness than even a first generation iPad
- Almost no target optimized applications
- Almost no new third party development, even from the majors, despite Android being on tablets for two years now
- Sales figures so bad that even Amazon's Fire HD is underperforming based on channel checks, and that is the best selling Android tablet by a wide margin
- A tiny blip in tablet online traffic and downloads

The thing is that you cannot admit to be wrong for whatever weird reasons you have so you bring up "context" as a dodge.

Well, there's your context quoted by you, right up there.

It isn't hard for normal people to say "sorry, my bad", I gladly admit when I'm wrong, but all I really see you do is deflect or dodge. You are so trapped by your story that reality is meaningless.

quote:
Pompous ass.


http://goo.gl/4GYx1


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By retrospooty on 4/12/2013 1:40:02 AM , Rating: 2
I would say re read the whole thing again to get the context of the conversation but you're too far up on your soapbox to get anything. Hint - think about what the conversation was about BEFORE you took one tiny part out of context. This might require you reread the posts. Hint #2 - The conversation was about a Forrest and you are focusing on one tree.

You are too funny. Any excuse to do your narrative. So narrow.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By TakinYourPoints on 4/12/2013 2:10:19 AM , Rating: 2
No, I read the entire thread and clearly I'm too stupid to follow.

You explicitly said that the iPad has been caught up and surpassed even though it is by far the leading tablet platform in every single objective measure.

Even the shifting you talk about farther up is taking the practical form of low single digit percentages, but obviously you were talking about something else.

I know taking back a wrong statement means you have to swallow your pride, so enlighten me please, tell me what you really meant when you said all that.

The way you noodle around is positively Clintonesque.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By retrospooty on 4/12/2013 8:07:59 AM , Rating: 2
OMG you are so thick headed. You see a launch pad for your soap box rant and all logic goes out the window.

This had nothing to do with iPad... Karlostomy (the OP) said "History does suggests that apple goes through 'innovation cycles', however I sadly see nothing new on the Apple horizon that impresses at all. I feel that's being quite objective.". I added that I agreed and since 2007 with the initial IOS, they haven't done much at all. That is what this discussion was about.

Tony, in an effort to invalidate my opinion and poke fun (I admit was poking at him too) put in a blurb I said from several years ago (yes, the loser did a search) where I said I didnt think the iPad would be that big. On a small side note I mentioned that " Yes, I am surprised by the sales #'s of tablets. I am surprised by the platform. I am surprised that I even bought two (much less one). They are quite alot nicer than I knew at release. A great product idea from Apple. They deserve the profits they reaped for the past few years." ... Then proceeded to go back to the topic at hand how Apple hasnt innovated lately and has been surpassed. Not about tablets, about thier products in general. Thus the data points mentioned in the article above.

You saw the word iPad and that in the same paragraph and went off on your typical dissertion railing against a conversation no-one was even having and you STILL couldnt grasp it after being told you had it wrong AND re-reading it. My god man, i know you arent stupid, I can only think that you are like a rabid politician, seeing something you can use to get on your soap box and just ignoring all logic even when explained just for the sake of the stump speach. Feel better now? You got your speach out as you do when you derail every single thread here.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By retrospooty on 4/10/2013 1:53:30 PM , Rating: 2
And... BTW Tony. PLHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

"Shares have fallen from $702.10 in September to $426.98 as of today. Also, Apple's iPhone only represented about 19 percent of worldwide smartphone shipments in 2012 while all Android-powered smartphones accounted for about 70 percent.

Android will even beat Apple in the tablet sector this year, according to a new report from IDC. IPad shipments are expected to make up 46 percent of the tablet market for 2013, down from 51 percent in 2012. Android-powered tablets are expected to increase their market share to 49 percent in 2013, up from 42 percent in 2012."


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By Samus on 4/10/2013 3:28:55 PM , Rating: 2
booya!


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By crispbp04 on 4/10/2013 5:51:39 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure if you looked at the chart you linked, but the title to the chart doesn't match the axes defined in the legend. How can you compare revenue on a hardware product to a software product? You should be looking at margin dollars. I guess you're not a finance guy...


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By retrospooty on 4/10/2013 6:10:14 PM , Rating: 2
"I'm not sure if you looked at the chart you linked, but the title to the chart doesn't match the axes defined in the legend. How can you compare revenue on a hardware product to a software product? You should be looking at margin dollars. I guess you're not a finance guy..."

Welcome to Anandtech/Dailytech. I see you have now met Tony Swash. He isn't here to see what is going on in the tech world, or to learn what products may be coming. He is here on an agenda to try and change minds, so he uses whatever data that lends to that end point and ignores anything that doesnt.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By maugrimtr on 4/12/2013 9:59:48 AM , Rating: 2
Tony doesn't have a financial background. At least, I really hope he doesn't. If he does, I pity his employer for having hired such a mindless creature.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By Cheesew1z69 on 4/12/2013 10:09:27 AM , Rating: 2
I pity anyone having to deal with him in real life.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By Cheesew1z69 on 4/10/2013 6:41:23 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I guess you're not a finance guy...
No, he's just an Apple shill.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By Tony Swash on 4/10/2013 6:57:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I'm not sure if you looked at the chart you linked, but the title to the chart doesn't match the axes defined in the legend. How can you compare revenue on a hardware product to a software product? You should be looking at margin dollars. I guess you're not a finance guy...


Why do you think this is happening?

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS2406...

Mobile devices, above all the iPad, are disrupting Wintel PC sales, one way to judge the scale of those two businesses and hence judge the scale of the impact of one on the other is to look at gross revenue, it's not the only metric but it's a useful way to get a general sense of scale.

Apple has managed to operate with margins at least as good and often better than Microsofts's margins and sales of hardware (actually combined hardware and software) in the shape of the iPad is clearly impacting sales of PCs and hence Windows licences. I am sure you would be more sanguine about the chart if the lines were pointing in the opposite direction.



RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By TakinYourPoints on 4/10/2013 8:10:19 PM , Rating: 2
Hardware profit margins are much lower than software profit margins. It took more than a doubling of Apple's gross revenue to match Microsoft's net profit.


RE: Lack of Apple innovation
By Tony Swash on 4/10/2013 8:26:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hardware profit margins are much lower than software profit margins.


I am not sure that's strictly true anymore as far as Apple is concerned.

http://www.asymco.com/2012/05/01/which-is-best-har...

http://www.asymco.com/2012/10/29/the-iphone-and-ap...


By TakinYourPoints on 4/10/2013 8:47:38 PM , Rating: 4
That number is variable, it really depends. Apple's profit margins tanked year-over-year with the release of the iPhone 5. It's why they made the same net profit for the 2012 holiday quarter despite a huge increase in sales and gross revenue.

Foxconn's share of the profit is also increasing, which is obviously digging into Apple's margins: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-25/hon-hai-p...

quote:
Fourth-quarter net income climbed 5.6 percent to NT$37 billion ($1.2 billion), according to data compiled by Bloomberg based on full-year results published yesterday. That’s ahead of the NT$35.9 billion average of 14 analyst estimates compiled by Bloomberg.

“As they scaled up production of the iPhone and solved production bottlenecks, Hon Hai’s profit margins improved and they may have had some room to push Apple for better pricing,” said Vincent Chen, who rates the stock buy at Yuanta Financial Holding Co. in Taipei.


We'll see for sure when Apple released sales in two weeks. Its all speculation and link bait at this point. Here's another story that is relevant given that Foxconn produces OEM PCs and components for pretty much everyone: http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/10/technology/pc-sale...

Worst PC sales drop in history, 14%. Dell and everyone is quick to jump on blaming Windows 8 for their troubles, but I don't think that's so simple. PCs last much longer than they used to and everybody has one. The time of bi-annual upgrades for consumers is over, that's all. I'm a hardcore PC gamer with a 2560x1440 display, and even I've been able to hang onto most of my 2009 i7 for three and a half years (GPU is the only upgrade I made a year ago). Even more people are happy hanging onto their Core Duos and Quads, hence the decline in PC sales.

We're nowhere near a ceiling for smartphone or tablet sales yet, that's the difference.


“So far we have not seen a single Android device that does not infringe on our patents." -- Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith














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