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Microsoft's Michael Angiulo  (Source: Business Insider)
Windows RT may already be turning to vinegar

Microsoft continues to defend its sagging Windows RT operating system. So far one of the only products that run the operating system is Microsoft's own Surface RT tablet, which has seen very low sales. Earlier this month, sales of the Microsoft Surface family of tablets missed targets and analysts reduced their sales forecasts.

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer continues to insist that Surface is a "real business", but sales figures suggest otherwise. Major Microsoft partner Samsung has announced that it won't be releasing a Windows RT tablet in the United States because of poor demand. Samsung has left the door open to introduce a RT device later if the market demands it. So far, that demand seems unlikely.

CNET recently had an interview with Microsoft corporate vice president for Windows planning Michael Angiulo.  During the talk the Microsoft executive spent some time focusing on what makes Windows RT important for Microsoft.
 
Angiulo stated, "It was a ton of work for us and we didn't do the work and endure the disruption for any reason other than the fact that there's a strategy there that just gets stronger over time. Looking at things now like power performance and standby time and passive [fanless] form factors. When we launched windows 8, it was really competitive with a full-sized iPad. A lot of that was made possible by the ARM [chip] architecture."


In addition, Angiulo talked a bit about complaints of legacy software not working on Windows RT. He said, "People are talking about legacy desktop software not running, but they don't think about the customer benefit of only running modern apps. The only apps that you install from the Windows store are the kind, that as a customer, you can manage your rights to."

Angiulo also believes that ARM-powered tablets will have a higher percentage shipping that feature mobile broadband because the devices have longer battery life the comparable Intel platform devices. Battery life is a big selling factor for ARM-powered devices, and increased power consumption continues to be a downside to Intel hardware in the tablet and mobile market.

Source: CNET



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It gets better with time?
By 91TTZ on 3/22/2013 1:23:18 PM , Rating: 5
The problem with that statement is that if you're a customer, you want the product to be good right now. You don't want to be told that you basically bought a beta version of some crap that will get better with time.

Microsoft is slowly admitting that their entire Metro UI initiative has been a failure. Their phones aren't selling, their tablets aren't selling, Windows 8 isn't selling. Apart from initial sales to OEMs and distributors, demand has been extremely weak.

I can almost guarantee you that the next version of Windows will have an option for a start menu. Yes, that pesky Start Menu that they told people is gone forever will be back. Why? Because it's what customers want and customers aren't buying what Microsoft wants.




RE: It gets better with time?
By FITCamaro on 3/22/2013 1:41:20 PM , Rating: 2
They're not selling because they are late to the market. Not because they aren't quality devices.

I actually rather like Windows Phone's UI. It is very snappy. My only complaint is that Google Maps isn't on it yet along with Google Navigation.

That and phone makers still haven't made phones with as big of screens and as good of hardware as Android phones. Doesn't mean that the devices that are out there suck. Just aren't what I'm looking for.

Now for a tablet, had I not had a Nexus 7, the next Surface RT would be on my radar (never buy first gen). To me the only issue with Windows RT (and Windows 8 on Surface Pro) is the size. They really need to get the size down.


RE: It gets better with time?
By kleinma on 3/22/2013 1:49:13 PM , Rating: 3
I personally would not want an RT at all..

However I own a surface pro and I love the damn thing. It really is the best of both worlds. Better battery would be nice, but it hasn't been an issue for me yet. Pen input is awesome. Touch cover is crap, type cover is where it is at.


RE: It gets better with time?
By Pirks on 3/22/2013 3:15:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Google Maps isn't on it yet along with Google Navigation
You don't like Nokia Drive navigation? Why?
quote:
phone makers still haven't made phones with as big of screens and as good of hardware as Android phones
Why are you lying? Don't you know that Samsung ATIV S has the same advanced hardware that GS3 has? You know the current flagship Android phone form Samsung? Ever heard about it huh?

And don't try to lie about GS4 that is yet to start selling in some undefined future :P
quote:
Just aren't what I'm looking for
Of course they aren't because you don't know about them, hehe. You heard about Samsung ATIV S only now after I told you about it. Maybe you should learn about WP8 a bit better, huh?

By the way, been talking to a friend of mine form Toronto, the guy asked me what's better to get for free on 2 year contract - iPhone 4 or Sony Xperia Go. I looked at both, and Xperia got much worse screen that iPhone but it had SD card slot. The guy was almost convinced to buy Sony because he wanted SD slot and then... dig this, man... I went to Telus Mobility web site and while quickly browsing their free on 2 year contract offerings (the only ones he was considering 'cause he's on a budget ya know ;) I noticed Lumia 620.

Boy this phone pwns the other Android crap in there for the same low price. I mean it. I compared specs - one of the best CPUs in this class, same for GPU, 64GB SD slot, DOUBLE the battery life of Android phones for the same price, real cool screen with double the resolution of cheap Android crap, almost the iPhone's resolution actually, all the bells and whistles he wanted but quite a bit better that Android crap for the same price ($250 without contract). Well, at least among what was Telus offering online.

So check this out: that guy was a heavy Android user and now he was like "man, this is really cool, so do you think I should get it? the specs are the best for that price" - I said "do you have any dependency on Android apps or something" - he said "no". So I said he should probably get this Lumia thing, and he agreed, kinda. I dunno if he gets it, 'cause he was Android only guy and he's afraid to jump the ship of course... but we'll see. I'll post update later, maybe. If something interesting happens with his WP8 purchase... that is, if he buys it at all.
quote:
the next Surface RT would be on my radar
No it won't be. RT is dead because Clover Trail killed it last year. You just never saw any anandtech reviews of RT and Clover Trail, did you? Well, time to read up on the hardware, man.

If you buy any RT tablet including Surface RT you're an idiot.

If you buy Surface Pro then it's a tough case because Acer's W700 tablet with same Core i5 has much better battery life so you're still kinda idiot... unless you are an artist and need a cool pen to draw.

If you buy Clover Trail tablet you're a smart motherfucker. And if you buy Core i5 tablet you're rich too. In addition to being smart.

See it's very easy to tell who you are by looking at what kind of Win8 tablet you got. Hehe.

Ask questions if you don't understand something about Win8 tablets, I'll reply gladly.


RE: It gets better with time?
By spread on 3/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: It gets better with time?
By Pirks on 3/22/2013 11:01:33 PM , Rating: 2
If crappy configurable OS were selling better than quality non-configurable one, then Apple would go bankrupt a long ago, since they specialize in quality non-configurable devices.

Which shows that people prefer to pay for quality, not for configurability. Hence MS is going in the right direction by following the money trail left by Apple, and not following advice of various Android trolls who love to "configure" everythjing to death, you know.


RE: It gets better with time?
By Tony Swash on 3/23/13, Rating: 0
RE: It gets better with time?
By InsGadget on 3/24/2013 1:03:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
it seems fairly clear that the initial launch of W8 on phones and tablet has been, from Microsoft's perspective, a failure.

I don't agree with this. The fact that Windows Phone has any growth at all in this highly competitive smartphone OS market is telling. All other players are failing besides the (now) Big 3.

And Windows 8 is doing fine. Windows RT is a different story, but Win8 is fine.


RE: It gets better with time?
By BillyBatson on 3/24/2013 1:23:29 PM , Rating: 2
lol so customization is that important to you on a phone? I'm not going to lie it might be useful to some but I've never had to resize my icons or add a background image to be happy with my device. The only thing you're right a out is wp8 having less apps and that won't last forever and then you will have no argument other than not being able to resize your icons lol

"It simply does less"
lol how ignorant you really are.


RE: It gets better with time?
By damianrobertjones on 3/24/2013 6:06:39 PM , Rating: 2
The W700 has throttling issues


RE: It gets better with time?
By Pirks on 3/25/2013 3:17:11 AM , Rating: 2
Prooflink or it didn't happen


RE: It gets better with time?
By Luticus on 3/22/2013 3:15:57 PM , Rating: 3
The reason RT isn't selling is because the whole advantage to having windows on a tablet is to be able to use windows software on a touch enabled more portable device. If you lose the legacy windows software (you know, all that stuff that makes windows great) then you basically lose every advantage you had for running windows. At that point it makes no difference what you run. People don't want "modern apps" because "modern apps" generally suck, big time. The ONLY goods one I can even think of is NetFlix and maybe Skype. Even the ever popular Microsoft office 2013 isn't a "modern app", that's how much they suck. Why do they suck so bad? Because the are crippled, on purpose, by Microsoft. That said, I love windows 8 x86/64 and have it on many systems including a tablet.


RE: It gets better with time?
By EnzoFX on 3/22/2013 4:06:00 PM , Rating: 2
This. They're late to the game, and the game is more mature than where MS stands. Not by a huge margin, but I think MS needs to outdo the competition to be a real worthy choice.


RE: It gets better with time?
By dgingerich on 3/23/2013 11:18:13 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
(you know, all that stuff that makes windows great)


Do you mean the stuff that gives support techs the greatest headaches when supporting Windows? Believe me, during my 13 years as a support tech, older apps were always the biggest headache. Most of the time all I could think of while fixing some stupid Oracle 7 app, a mainframe interface, or some horrible old DOS app was "why can't these idiot executives just buckle down and pay for the upgrade and stop with all the extra cost of supporting these crappy old apps?" The fact is supporting those older app costs far more than just buying an upgrade, especially when it's more than two generations old. They cost more in one year than it would cost to just upgrade.

I have a Dell XPS 10 tablet with keyboard dock. It's the best thing since sliced bread, mostly. I can carry it around in my lab and SSH into linux and unix servers (using one of those "modern apps") or remote desktop into Windows servers and do all sorts of admin tasks. I can pull up Office documents while standing at a rack in order to find out what IP address or OS a server has, or fill out disposal forms for old servers I'm about to scrap. (You know, Word and Excel are included with WinRT.) All from this little 10" screen.

Granted, I can't use it for a serial interface to FC RAID arrays or switches, but people are working on that.

Even more, there are several games I like to play on it. Sure, there aren't a ton, but there are ones I like. On a system that takes a small fraction of the power of my main gaming system. I can also watch Hulu or Netflix, and read books from it. It hasn't taken the place of my main system yet, but it's getting closer than ever before. The "modern apps" you deride so much have actually worked quite well for me, including a game that is a lot like Diablo 3.

Windows RT doesn't have to get better. It's great as it is. It's everything I need from it, far superior to the severely limited Android or iOS. It's as capable as Windows 8, which is also great. You probably just haven't used it yet.


RE: It gets better with time?
By rountad on 3/26/2013 12:25:26 PM , Rating: 2
USB to RS232 adapter for console connections?


RE: It gets better with time?
By 91TTZ on 3/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: It gets better with time?
By fteoath64 on 3/25/2013 6:25:56 AM , Rating: 2
Very true! Over priced under performing product is way easy to spot these days. Even if it were not overpriced, the under performance would not have rendered it much of a success. It has to at least match whatever is out there. Let's hope MS spends time to improve it. And for goodness sake, please let it participate in a Windows Domain!.
Ubuntu Touch is coming real fast and it will eliminate much of RT's feature set if nothing compelling in the OS is being delivered. Many are looking forward to that especially the ones wanting to get away from Android due to its limitations. Not that V4.2.2 is deficient or anything but the overall platform will not evolve much from here.

A serious SP2 on RT should deliver a host of missing features of the PRO version of the OS. And also please use Tegra4 and Tegra 4i to really rock the market by Xmas, or else the ANdroid masses would have the hardware advantage.
Do a 8 inch 4:3 aspect ratio version with T4i and 4:3 aspect ratio for a 10.8 inch model. Shoot for 10 hour battery life and they would hold their own before Xmas.


RE: It gets better with time?
By kleinma on 3/22/2013 4:22:30 PM , Rating: 3
Don't blame MS for not having a "Modern UI" google maps app. Google refuses to make Windows 8 "modern" apps for phone or desktop. It is just another way for google to try to keep MS out of the mobile market.

One thing you can't say about MS is that they are trying to keep everyone sucked into the Windows ecosystem. They are doing way less of that than google or apple. MS has more software products that run on android than google does on winphone, and MS has more products on iOS than Apple does on Windows.


RE: It gets better with time?
By 91TTZ on 3/22/2013 5:49:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
One thing you can't say about MS is that they are trying to keep everyone sucked into the Windows ecosystem. They are doing way less of that than google or apple. MS has more software products that run on android than google does on winphone, and MS has more products on iOS than Apple does on Windows.


That's because Microsoft is a software maker while Google is an internet search company while Apple is mainly a hardware company. Microsoft's business has always been to make software to run on other people's computers.


RE: It gets better with time?
By InsGadget on 3/24/2013 1:05:30 PM , Rating: 2
So Google doesn't make software? What do they make again?


RE: It gets better with time?
By Pirks on 3/24/2013 5:31:57 PM , Rating: 2
Ads


RE: It gets better with time?
By BillyBatson on 3/24/13, Rating: 0
RE: It gets better with time?
By BillyBatson on 4/1/2013 10:24:32 PM , Rating: 2
So I was voted down without anyone commenting? That means my comment was 100% right the surface ISN'T too big, it's smaller than comparable laptops and smaller/lighter than it's competitor the Razer Edge.
There are just some major haters and ignorants (my own word) here on DT


RE: It gets better with time?
By Nortel on 3/22/2013 2:19:38 PM , Rating: 2
I think MS is in denial big time. They wanted people to think the Lumia phones would get better with time and then didn't allow them to upgrade to WM8. Sure, they could refresh the RT lineup but what could they possibly offer that people would suddenly want? People simply don't like Windows 8, slapping in a higher res screen, better cpu, more ram, megapixels, etc... simply won't help drive sales.


RE: It gets better with time?
By FITCamaro on 3/22/2013 2:25:04 PM , Rating: 2
Some guys here at work love Windows 8. And they run Macs.


RE: It gets better with time?
By Nortel on 3/22/2013 2:41:07 PM , Rating: 3
And I know two people who drive Pontiac Aztec's... Numbers don't lie, most people don't want anything to do with W8.

Back to RT... It was designed as an Asus Transformer clone which came out way late to the party. Why would anybody buy Surface RT garbage 1,366 x 768 res screen when, for the same price, an 2048 x 1536 iPad is available...


RE: It gets better with time?
By inighthawki on 3/22/2013 4:40:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And I know two people who drive Pontiac Aztec's... Numbers don't lie, most people don't want anything to do with W8.

And where is that statistic from? A poll on a tech savvy website telling you how many power users dislike Win8? All of the "average" people I've met that tried Windows 8 seem to like it. My mom happens to love her Surface RT, she's using it every second of the day.

The loud backlash of complaints you hear is called a "vocal minority"


RE: It gets better with time?
By DiscoWade on 3/22/2013 6:56:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The loud backlash of complaints you hear is called a "vocal minority"


Where there is smoke there is fire. The people against it are not a vocal minority.


RE: It gets better with time?
By spread on 3/22/2013 10:27:26 PM , Rating: 2
Because your mother likes it I'm sure that Surface RT will be a big hit.

You hear that everyone? It's a market suckcess!


RE: It gets better with time?
By 91TTZ on 3/25/2013 10:04:38 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
And where is that statistic from? A poll on a tech savvy website telling you how many power users dislike Win8? All of the "average" people I've met that tried Windows 8 seem to like it. My mom happens to love her Surface RT, she's using it every second of the day.


He's basing it on the fact that Windows 8 isn't selling well at all. After the initial PR by Microsoft saying how fast it's selling, it became apparent that those sales were to OEMs who were promised that the product would be popular. The OEMs have had trouble selling Windows 8 products and orders to Microsoft have slowed drastically.

quote:
The loud backlash of complaints you hear is called a "vocal minority"


In this case they're not a vocal minority. The product is a flop. If Windows 8 sold like Windows 7 did and people were complaining then you'd have a point. But it's selling slower than Vista, which Microsoft acknowledged was a failure.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/149762-four-m...


RE: It gets better with time?
By Reclaimer77 on 3/25/2013 10:35:15 AM , Rating: 2
Not only is it selling poorly, but they are practically giving it away!

Once again Reclaimer is right, Windows 8 failed.


RE: It gets better with time?
By Doctorweir on 3/26/2013 2:30:28 AM , Rating: 3
Why SurfaceRT?
- You want a proper office
- You want a full web experience (Flash)
- You want connectivity (USB)
- Optional: You don't like Apples ;-)

Ok, I am biased as I have one and love it. Also had an iPad2 before (everyone makes mistakes) which was far too limited.
But I fully agree that WinRT will never come again. As soon as intel has their new Atom lineup out, there is no more need for RT. The it's full W8 with the performance clover trail is lacking and long battery time.


RE: It gets better with time?
By Argon18 on 3/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: It gets better with time?
By spread on 3/22/2013 10:19:32 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The problem with that statement is that if you're a customer, you want the product to be good right now.


The problem is that they don't care. Microsoft doesn't release finished products. The release a beta, the customers buy that hoping that fixes and updates will come. They never come.

I bought a Windows Phone 7. Microsoft gave me the shaft with updates. It's now a dead platform. I own an android phone now instead of a Windows Phone 8. I'm not taking the chance of getting shafted again.

Windows 8? Same deal. The OS has ads. Ads. Built in. On a clean install.


RE: It gets better with time?
By Pirks on 3/22/2013 11:09:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm not taking the chance of getting shafted again.
LOL :))) Are you serious? You really expect your phone OEM to update your Android instead of selling you a new device? Are you really that dumb and naive? No one besides Apple supports their devices for more than a year, in rare cases two years.

Nice try Android troll, but your propaganda won't work for gazillions of users who were shafted by free cheese... err the free Android crap that is. You know what they say about free cheese right? Think about it, and please stop being so naive, it hurts watching inexperienced children like you posting here :))) He won't be shafted anymore. With Android! MUAHAHAHAHAHA! Google LOVES naive kiddies like you. You make their profits, kiddo. Keep paying them lamo, and keep hoping that you "won't get shafted" LOL :)))


RE: It gets better with time?
By hugo_stiglitz on 3/25/2013 9:46:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
No one besides Apple supports their devices for more than a year, in rare cases two years.


Um, actually Google does - IF you own a Nexus device. My Galaxy Nexus has been getting all the OS updates as soon as they're released by Google and is running the latest version. This has been going on for almost 2 years now.

Obviously you're not fully aware as you thought u were.


RE: It gets better with time?
By Pirks on 3/25/2013 2:55:58 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I stand corrected, MS and Google also update their devices and will probably support them for 3 years just like Apple does


RE: It gets better with time?
By Uncle on 3/22/2013 10:22:00 PM , Rating: 2
"Angiulo talked a bit about complaints of legacy software not working on Windows RT." and why shouldn't people complain? I paid good money for my so called legacy software, now I'm suppose to get rid of it, move to Microsoft's march and buy new proprietary software that does the same as my Legacy. Whats next, a name change,IMicrosoft. Other then apple so many companies learned that consumers don't like proprietary anything and Microsoft is still trying to get there.


RE: It gets better with time?
By Ktracho on 3/27/2013 8:05:44 PM , Rating: 2
So I bought an iPad when it came out. Now all of a sudden I couldn't run any of the Mac OS X apps I had accumulated over time with real money. Did I complain? Well ..., actually I don't have an iPad, but my wife has one, and she hasn't complained about that.

Although Windows 7/8 and Windows RT have similar names, the hardware they run on is as similar as iMacs are to iPads. That doesn't necessarily mean Windows RT is doomed to fail just because of this difference.


RE: It gets better with time?
By KoolAidMan1 on 3/23/2013 6:03:38 AM , Rating: 2
They have it mostly right. Modern UI is great on smartphones. I think its the best mobile UI. Desktop and tablet are different, trying to combine them all is a mistake. Keeping the desktop and mobile UI separate like what Apple has done work best so far. It is good for mobile devices but it doesn't screw up what has worked for decades on the desktop.


RE: It gets better with time?
By marvdmartian on 3/25/2013 7:39:34 AM , Rating: 3
Well, at least they didn't say, "It gets better with time.....like Vista!!" {snicker}


RE: It gets better with time?
By tty on 3/25/2013 10:03:09 AM , Rating: 3
I don't think the UI is a total failure. Their only failure was to predict what users need right now and the fact that most are not so open to adapt to a new interface/work style.
I think they overestimated user adaptability on new UI and went a bit too far with that.
Now they learned the change must be done in steps and slowly (or at least I hope they did).
The "get better" part probably suggest that UI will be easier to adapt to in time, not that the functionality of the OS itself is crap.


"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." -- Bill Gates














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