Print 71 comment(s) - last by markt902.. on Mar 5 at 4:52 AM

Google is not impressed

Google has no problem with telling it like it is. Yesterday, the Android maker said Motorola isn't creating good enough mobile products for its popular operating system.

Patrick Pichette, Google's chief financial officer and senior vice president, told an audience at the Morgan Stanley Technology Conference that Motorola isn't up to par with Google's expectations of a hardware maker.

"[Motorola's pipeline are] not really to the standards that what Google would say is wow -- innovative, transformative," said Pichette. "We've inherited 18 months of pipeline that we actually have to drain right now, while we're actually building the next wave of innovation and product lines."

So far, a few Motorola releases for Android include the Droid RAZR Maxx HD and the Droid RAZR M. While these phones aren't half bad, Google said customers want more.

Pichette also made mention that Google's relationship with Samsung, its No. 1 hardware maker, is "terrific" despite recent rumors. In fact, the Samsung Galaxy S IV with the Android operating system is due to be announced March 14.

Source: The Verge

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just another
By Nortel on 3/1/2013 2:28:44 PM , Rating: 5
Motorola is just one of many companies pumping out plastic phones running Android. Acer, Asus, HTC, LG, Motorola, Samsung, Google, Panasonic, Sony, Huawei, ZTE, etc... What is the differentiating factor in all of these phones? Many have models with the exact same hardware specs for christs sake! Snapdragon cpu, 8gb disk, 4.5 inch screen, 8mp camera, 1-2gb ram, mini hdmi, wifi, LTE. How can these companies set themselves apart from each other when they all put out virtually the same product.

RE: just another
By KiwiTT on 3/1/13, Rating: -1
RE: just another
By xti on 3/1/2013 2:54:36 PM , Rating: 4
Tony is getting laxed on team iphone recruits.

RE: just another
By Tequilasunriser on 3/1/2013 3:46:22 PM , Rating: 5
All reason you listed for getting an iPhone are the same reason people get Nexus phones.

The added bonus being a low off contract price and pentaband radio so it can be taken to any GSM carrier.

Ironically, consumers are losing interest in iPhones because they're not innovating enough. Very few 4S owners saw a reason to upgrade to the 5. The general public was largely disappointed.

RE: just another
By TakinYourPoints on 3/1/2013 10:39:35 PM , Rating: 1
Why would a 4S owner upgrade to an iPhone 5 in a year? That doesn't make sense for 99% of users out there, not the way that contracts work. Holding onto a phone for two years makes much more sense, that's what I always do.

As for losing interest, reality doesn't point that way. iPhone sales continue to accelerate, it sells more than other high end smartphones, and online usage metrics are well over double that of the slightly older and also popular GS3.

RE: just another
By markt902 on 3/2/2013 6:20:41 PM , Rating: 2
The only reason why the web usage on an iPhone is higher is because you cannot easily use a different user agent. You're essentially forced into viewing the mobile version of a website. Chrome for Android is the first browser I've seen on Android that doesn't allow you to easily change the user agent. I've been using a mobile, or tablet UA since 2010 on all of my Android phones. 90% of the time I hate using the crippled mobile version of websites, and because of that I either use a tablet, or Chrome desktop UA. Plus, you can easily install ad block on Android devices, and that skews analytics even more. I own an iPhone 4s, and without jailbreak, I personally cannot stand using it.

RE: just another
By TakinYourPoints on 3/4/2013 9:24:12 AM , Rating: 2
Traffic can be determined by mobile operating system, forget mobile browser, and it is still mainly iOS. Hell, analytics can determine the exact type of device being use.

Web usage on iOS is higher because it sells much larger numbers than devices like the GS3, Droid DNA, Nexus 4, etc etc. Again, the main reason comes down to so many Android devices out there not being what we consider to be high-end smartphones.

RE: just another
By markt902 on 3/5/2013 4:52:09 AM , Rating: 2
You're wrong, and if you include the entire world, Apple isn't even close. Just take a look at iPhone usage in China, for example. I don't want Android to dominate, because in the long run it's not good for consumers, and my iPhone 4s is a pretty nice device. I realize their are many methods of determining device usage, but many tend to be by user agent.

Regardless of what browser market share statistics say, which are mostly compiled by user agent, you simply cannot say that the iPhone dominates the US market.

Also, the data from Chitika is unreliable at best. They don't divulge how they are compiling their data, and once again adblock is on Android is a thing.

RE: just another
By Reclaimer77 on 3/2/2013 6:24:31 PM , Rating: 2
Except the numbers show you're in the minority. Most people trade up after 15 months I believe.

RE: just another
By mcnabney on 3/3/2013 1:26:20 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, no.

That would be an 'average'. Upgrade eligibility for contracts is 20 months. The fanbois upgrade every 12 months and others upgrade every two years to avoid ETFs or paying full retail. The Fanbois are dumb enough to pay $650+ for a device.

RE: just another
By Reclaimer77 on 3/3/2013 1:34:00 PM , Rating: 2
The upgrade fee is $35 on my carriers and you aren't subject to an ETF if you're staying with them, obviously.

RE: just another
By crimson117 on 3/4/2013 12:00:26 PM , Rating: 2
Smart "fanbois" buy an unlocked phone when it comes out for $650, then a year later sell that unlocked phone for $500 on ebay, and spend another $150 to get the newest model.

RE: just another
By TakinYourPoints on 3/4/2013 9:31:50 AM , Rating: 2
That's an average figure skewed by people who buy lower end phones unsubsidized without a contract.

People in two year contracts that subsidize one expensive phone per period (ie - iPhone, Droid DNA, GS3) generally don't spend more than they have to so that they can make annual upgrades. Two year upgrades with high end smartphones are extremely common.

Some people might upgrade more often, but that is a statistically insignificant number compared to the hundreds of millions of people who don't.

RE: just another
By GulWestfale on 3/1/2013 4:11:48 PM , Rating: 2
with android you do have a choice of sizes, cpu spec, and battery sizes. with apple you get none of that. what you did is choose a mid-range phone with outdated features and an outdated OS, but paid a premium price for it.

RE: just another
By TakinYourPoints on 3/1/2013 10:35:49 PM , Rating: 2
With iOS you have one choice but it is hardly low end. The iPhone 5 has among fastest hardware, one of the highest quality screens (HTC also does very well), and excellent battery life (double the wifi and LTE browse time of a GS3). All this combined with stability, OS updates, and the best third party developer support out there.

You have fewer choices with iOS, certainly, but its all in the high end. Android gives you lots more choices in the mid-range and low end, and of course they give you choices with giant phones and phablets.

RE: just another
By cruisin3style on 3/2/2013 4:57:11 PM , Rating: 2
Battery life is very dependant on the time the screen is on with large screened phones. I have the verizon galaxy nexus and the screen is ALWAYS the largest battery user, often using at least 50% of it according to the battery use statistics.

I'm not surprised if the 4" iphone5 has something like double the 4.8" galaxy s3's browsing battery life...the 4.8" screen gives the gs3 44% larger screen area

RE: just another
By markt902 on 3/2/2013 6:47:34 PM , Rating: 2
The AMOLED panels in the GS3, and Galaxy Nexus consume a lot of power, especially when you need to view anything that's white. LCD panels are a lot more energy efficient, but the viewing angles and black levels, compared to AMOLED, are very poor. I have a Galaxy Nexus, US SGS3, HTC One X, iPhone 4s, and a Nexus 4 in my possession right now. When I'm using inverted applications on my GS3, or Galaxy Nexus, the screen time is a lot better. I can achieve about 4 hours of screen time with my GS3, while on WiFi, and about 6.5 hours of screen time on my Nexus 4 (WiFi only.)

Regardless of what "objective" display reviews say, I still prefer AMOLED panels. You simply cannot beat the viewing angles, and black levels. The black levels on my Nexus 4 are among the best on any LCD, but the viewing angles just aren't up to par. I'm using Franco kernel on my Nexus 4 with calibrated gamma settings, and the display is extremely sharp, and accurate, but the viewing angles, and black levels are just disappointing. The same applies with the iPhone 5. I'd really like to see an objective analysis between the iPhone 5, and a calibrated Nexus 4 display. There is a guy on XDA who says his personally calibrated Nexus 4 is the most color accurate display in a smart phone. I'm using his gamma settings, and can agree that the colors are amazing.

Anyway, I've been spoiled by AMOLED blacks, and honestly I don't mind the battery hit. I really hope the SGS4 ends up having an AMOLED panel.

RE: just another
By TakinYourPoints on 3/4/2013 9:26:34 AM , Rating: 1
I really hope the SGS4 ends up having an AMOLED panel.

Add good color calibration and good text rendering to that list. The GS3 has a surprisingly bad display, especially for a device as expensive as it is. It doesn't surprise me why Google went to LG instead of Samsung for the Nexus 4.

RE: just another
By rocketbuddha on 3/4/2013 1:03:04 PM , Rating: 2
I too was not wowed by the SAMOLED display in the SIII. One of my colleagues bought the Verizon S3 just as VZ did away with un-limited data plan for upgrades. It did not even stick out on the eyes when compared to the SLCD2 in the One X series.

I had assumed that it is more due to the Pentile nature vs. RGB rather than AMOLED vs. LCD. I thought GN-II which had both SAMOLED and RGB would be more pleasing on eyes.

RE: just another
By TakinYourPoints on 3/4/2013 9:36:39 AM , Rating: 2
Battery life is very dependant on the time the screen is on with large screened phones.

Except that the tests I mentioned specifically have to do with LTE and wifi browse time. The GS3 did fine in other tests like talk time and video playback.

It has to do with the iPhone 5 using newer and much more power efficient 28nm Qualcomm LTE chips. Very simple. Had the iPhone 4S gotten LTE then you'd be seeing a similar 4 hour battery life instead for 8. That would have been a huge downgrade in battery life from the prior iPhone, so they waited until the tech got better.

Control of the entire hardware/software stack also has a lot to do with it. You can optimize the hell out of everything when you have complete control over the OS and the SoC.

RE: just another
By MadMan007 on 3/1/2013 5:29:32 PM , Rating: 5
Wait, you're saying you chose an iPhone partly because Android phones are 'all the same'? The only way iPhones are not all the same is if you get one released a year later.

RE: just another
By KiwiTT on 3/2/2013 7:14:37 PM , Rating: 2
No ... I want to get security updates for at least 3 years. Only the Nexus range is likely to offer that, but that only managed 2 years at best. In NZ, we have to pay full price for our handsets, unless we want to have an expensive plan like $120 per month. So spending $1,000+, I want to have the certainty of knowing the phone I buy will be supported in 3 years time.

RE: just another
By markt902 on 3/2/2013 8:02:07 PM , Rating: 2
Hell, if I were in NZ, I'd be buying a Xiaomi MI-2 for around $300-450. MIUI v5 looks really cool, the phone has great support and updates are provided weekly.

Regardless of where you live, $1000+ for a smartphone is just asinine. In the US, there is truly no reason to buy phones on contract anymore. Unless you want to waste your money on Verizon or AT&T's LTE.

Furthermore, almost all major devices are supported by devs on XDA. My dad's HTC EVO 4G supports CM10 (4.1.2), and that phone is almost 3 years old. He doesn't want to upgrade his device, because he's content with what he has.

If ROMs aren't your thing, I completely understand, but paying that much for a phone is just ridiculous. You may want to import phones from the US, or start buying decent Chinese phones from brands like Xiaomi or Oppo. I sell a lot of stuff on eBay, and shipping a smartphone to NZ would cost me $14.50.

I'm looking at the prices on, and I cannot believe how badly carriers are blasting you in the ass. And I thought we were getting screwed here in the US. Either way, you cannot go wrong with that MI-2, and I'm sure that one of the resellers will ship to NZ.

RE: just another
By KiwiTT on 3/3/2013 12:22:14 AM , Rating: 2
You should see what we pay for cars. An new MX-5 costs over $60,000

RE: just another
By eldakka on 3/3/2013 9:18:27 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know where you are getting your phones from...

I'm in Australia and I bought an unlocked Galaxy S3 32GB from dwi (Digital World International) July/August last year for about ~AU$650 delivered.

RE: just another
By KiwiTT on 3/3/2013 11:28:29 PM , Rating: 2
The S3 cost NZ$999 when it was released here. It is now being discounted because the S4 is due soon.

RE: just another
By xti on 3/1/2013 2:53:11 PM , Rating: 2
its a mobile phone, there are only so much it needs to do before its just niche.

like RF blaster to dub as a remote...awesome. to the average joe, its meh.

RE: just another
By Nortel on 3/1/2013 3:11:47 PM , Rating: 1
...there are only so much it needs to do before its just niche

It's called innovating. When everything looks and works the same there is no innovation which is the exact topic of this article.

The RF blaster being touted as new was on my palm pilot in 1999, thats 14 years ago. Even at that time it was far simpler to use a real remote and now-a-days the harmony remotes are both fantastic and cheap.

RE: just another
By Reclaimer77 on 3/1/2013 3:53:21 PM , Rating: 5
It's called innovating.

If you weren't so blinded by hate, you would realize the Android manufacturers are the biggest innovators out there. Hello???

Actually I take that back, RIM of all people just put more innovation into the Z10 than Apple has innovated in years.

harmony remotes are both fantastic and cheap.

Harmony's are garbage. You've clearly never used a good remote app on a smartphone/tablet, or you wouldn't make this statement.

RE: just another
By Milliamp on 3/1/13, Rating: 0
RE: just another
By Demoure on 3/1/2013 4:41:12 PM , Rating: 3
I find it strange. I think around the time the S3 was out, the RAZR MAXX was also out. I thought the MAXX to be pretty innovative. In that motorola took advantage of the otherwise pointless industry trend to make phones thin as paper, and used their thin RAZR design to stick in a massive battery into a phone that ends up about as thick as a year or two ago (comfortably thin, actually).

And now motorola is one of the few that put out an intel phone. Kudos to them for trying to do something different there. After seeing benchmarks of it I wish I had one, but by the time my contract is up I can't say which company will have the product I want.

RE: just another
By Motoman on 3/1/2013 3:10:34 PM , Rating: 2
So what you're saying is that it's not a good thing for the consumer to have many choices?

The reason Android phones can be had so cheaply is because there's lots of competition there. Like PCs. No real difference from one manufacturer to another.

So...pick a phone you like because it has the features you want at a good price and don't sweat the brand name. Because at the end of the day, it makes no difference.

RE: just another
By Reclaimer77 on 3/1/2013 3:24:19 PM , Rating: 2
Afraid I cannot agree. Months ago my Galaxy S2 met it's untimely death in the bathroom, in anticipations of the Galaxy 4 I grabbed a Motorola Razr from Verizon as a stopgap.

It feels like anything besides a cheap plastic phone. Despite it's thinness, there's zero flex in the chassis. The Kevlar backing is a nice touch too. If my Galaxy S2 had it, it probably would have never slipped out of my hand in the first place.

Many have models with the exact same hardware specs for christs sake!

Entirely irrelevant since the average phone buyer wouldn't know a "Snapdragon" CPU from sugar snap peas.

RE: just another
By Nortel on 3/1/2013 3:34:34 PM , Rating: 2
Entirely irrelevant since the average phone buyer wouldn't know a "Snapdragon" CPU from sugar snap peas.

Funny how it's irrelevant when it doesn't suit your point.

So the difference between Android phones comes down to it still being a plastic phone but with a cheap kevlar fabric covering part of the back? I could use one of your posts to point out that a case would negate this difference entirely.

RE: just another
By Reclaimer77 on 3/1/2013 3:46:21 PM , Rating: 2
Oh I'm sorry, I thought you wanted a discussion.

It's clear you are drinking the Hateraid here, so I guess I'm wasting my time.

Using your argument, the iPhone went 4 whole years with no "difference". Same exact chassis and look with every iteration. Even now with the "bigger" screen it's basically the same phone with different parts.

RE: just another
By Nortel on 3/1/13, Rating: 0
RE: just another
By Reclaimer77 on 3/1/13, Rating: 0
RE: just another
By retrospooty on 3/1/2013 5:32:43 PM , Rating: 4
"Or are you just against variety and competition in general?"

Bingo. Anything that competes with "the precious" gets the usual trolling. These new 1080p Androids are awesome, and I think it has them worried about the precious.

RE: just another
By grant3 on 3/2/2013 8:23:31 AM , Rating: 2
Kevlar does not "cover" the back, kevlar *IS* the back.

As for "cheap" i guess it's a matter of preference, obviously some people prefer the feeling of the kevlar back, not to mention it's nicely scratch-proof, unlike aluminum bodies.

RE: just another
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/1/2013 4:13:56 PM , Rating: 2
The Razr is a solid built phone, loved mine and gave it to the GF when I got my S3.

RE: just another
By Trisped on 3/1/2013 4:22:16 PM , Rating: 2
How can these companies set themselves apart from each other when they all put out virtually the same product.
How about:
• Look & Style
• Accessories (themed and normal)
• Bundled software

Price and Hardware features are also areas, but I think there is already a lot of competition in these areas.

I think there is still some low hanging fruit, like out of the box support for in browser flash (you can work around, but most mobile users do not want to go that far ) or the ability to setup and join ad-hock networks.

RE: just another
By Demoure on 3/1/2013 4:54:00 PM , Rating: 3
Why are we picking on plastic anyway?
It's lightweight, and there are many kinds which allows for creativity in look, feel, and durability. It also has, you know, plasticity. It wont get dinged up like aluminum might if that's the alternative we are thinking about. It wont shatter like glass, either.

RE: just another
By Omega215D on 3/2/2013 12:19:50 AM , Rating: 2
You haven't got a clue have you? Motorola has built relatively tough phones and have corporate level security on their handsets, possibly government grade on newer ones.

Also, Motorola has done some nano-coating to make the phone much more water resistant than most non-rugged phones on the market.

Motorola's skin (as of now) is the closest to vanilla Android than the rest.

RE: just another
By Roffles on 3/2/2013 7:16:01 PM , Rating: 2
How does your comment get a 5? HTC, Sony, LG, Motorola, and Samsung all have customized UI's with LOTS of added functionality baked in on top of stock Android to give each phone its own unique experience. For example, on my Galaxy S3, Touchwiz places toggles at the top of the pull-down menu to enable/disable most of the phone's features. Touchwiz also has tons of of extra options all throughout the system settings (way too many to state in this comment box), it's own unique set of widgets, and many unique apps. These added customizations actually make it more feature packed than stock Android. The launcher alone doesn't represent all that there is to Touchwiz. You can replace that with a launcher app. I'm rooted and could choose from dozens of roms, but in the end I like the added functionality of Touchwiz while running Nova launcher. It's not the same as the other phones with similar hardware specs.

Your comment makes me think you either don't know how to use an Android phone or that you have very limited experience using Android phones from different manufacturers.

RE: just another
By KiwiTT on 3/3/2013 11:38:13 PM , Rating: 2
No I don't know how to use an Android and did not want to, for the reasons I outlined.

I bought the iPhone 5 because I get support for 3+ years. Any Android I get (the much of a muchness comment), I'll get support for about 18 months at best. Virtually all Android phones, software support dries up, by either the Manufacturer or the Carrier.

Yes, I can put a custom-ROM in it, but that is likely to invalidate any warranty or Consumer Guarantee Act coverage, as I have modified the phone to other than manufacturer supported specifications.

In addition, as this is my very first smartphone, I wanted something that would last me a while.

RE: just another
By retrospooty on 3/4/2013 7:38:35 AM , Rating: 2
(shh, no-one tell him that IOS updates are hardly "updates" and that it has barely changed at all since IOS2, and that IOS6 upgrade is meaningless and changes almost nothing except to remove a batter mapping software)

But seriously. Buy a phone for its features and what it does, not for what you think it will do 3 years from now. Apple's OS updates are extremely minor. IOS6 should really be called IOS 2.4

RE: just another
By KiwiTT on 3/4/2013 12:44:18 PM , Rating: 2
I learnt decades ago, an OS is only a means to manage programs (apps), not the be all and end all. But I also learnt it needs to be secure and stable, so I could really do what I want with my system; run my programs (apps).

As for iOS being 2.4 instead of 6, you could say the same of Windows. There is negligible difference interface-wise, between Windows 95 and Windows 7, but a helluva lot has changed under the interface, to make it more secure and stable.

RE: just another
By Roffles on 3/4/2013 3:15:48 PM , Rating: 2
so you are admittedly ignorant to the functionally of Android devices so any reason you "outline" carries no weight, yet you talk about the iPhone 5 as if it were something special. you chose poorly for your first smartphone and that's all there is to it. i would go into more detail about why you chose poorly but you are intentionally ignorant to the android brand so i would be wasting my time. the iPhone 5, in terms of functionality (both software and hardware) is absolutely inferior to the android flagships.

now that i think about it, all apple users i come across are intentionally ignorant to the other brands, so i guess that makes you the perfect sucker to overspend on boutique electronics that lack functionality.

RE: just another
By retrospooty on 3/4/2013 8:03:49 PM , Rating: 2
"so you are admittedly ignorant to the functionally of Android devices so any reason you "outline" carries no weight, yet you talk about the iPhone 5 as if it were something special. "

Damn good marketing Apple has doesnt it. You dont actually have to "be" better, just have to convince those that dont want to take the time to learn facts.

I disagree with you on one thing though. The iPhone is a good starter smartphone. Like a training bra. Someday when he's old enough he can get a better product.

RE: just another
By KiwiTT on 3/4/2013 10:54:43 PM , Rating: 2
I think you don't know me at all. I'll give a bit of a background to my decision making process.

After a 30 year IT career, including managing and introducing new systems I am especially cautious about what I introduce to my life. I am certainly not a bleeding-edge person like I was in my younger days where I enjoyed having my PDA to stay organised in the 1990s. However, what 30+ years in IT has taught me is that careful consideration and planning is required to chose to implement any IT systems into what you do. And it is not simply a Features versus Features comparison that any person can, but a full assessment of the overall requirement, longevity and reliability.

It is in this light that I selected what I believe is the best 'smart-phone', all things considered.

The iPhone was the very first 'smart-phone' that was a real game changer. The ones before that, like the Palm, Windows, Blackberry were essentially quirky feature phones. Then a few year later came Android. Here was an OS and Hardware system that was open and infinitely customisable. Each generation the OS got better especially after 2.3x (and now upto 4.1x).

HTC was effectively leading with their regular 'Halo' phones in the first stages of the 'Android' revolution. Samsung and Sony came along a bit later. Samsung then took the baton and raced ahead of all competitors with their Galaxy Series phones leading to their ultimate Galaxy S3 and monstrous Note/Note 2. Meanwhile Apple was effectively getting left behind as it simply evolved slowly but stayed essentially the same.

The features of the Android phones are phenomenal. Large screens, great resolutions, quad-core CPUs, expandable memory, great cameras, etc. Integration with google apps are seamless and their customisation options endless.

Nevertheless they had a flaw. Poor long-term manufacturer support. When you buy an Android phone, it is generally a few point releases behind the latest OS release. You then have to wait for the manufacturer to release a patch to upgrade to the next release. In addition, you then need to wait for the manufacturer's release to be approved and possibly tweaked by the carrier you use. This often means you can be many releases behind for security fixes if you stay on the Manufacturer/Carrier release cycle. (NOTE: You can bypass all this by patching your phone directly via the many tools available). In addition manufacturer support for the phone generally stops after about 18 months of a phone being released.

Apple on the other hand, while it simply evolves, its updates are sent directly to the phone, without requiring any carrier or manufacturer steps. This means you are effectively on the latest release much faster. This is especially important as 'hackers' are now targeting 'smart-phones', directly. In addition Apple generally supports its phones for at least 3-4 years.

I intend to use my phone for at a minimum of 3-4 years and want to have the most up to date security on it at all times.

It may seem like a lot of money to spend on a phone, but as I had a few thousand sitting in what I call my "Fun Account", for me to buy toys with, which I hadn't touched for about 3-4 years, I thought "Why not? What harm can it do to finally enter the 'smart-phone' age and see what everyone are talking about".

Time will tell whether I made a 'good' decision, but as my family all use iPhones and my part-time work releasing an iPhone app soon, it seems it will be OK.

Incidentally, I did not really made use of all the features of my previous phone.

"Paying an extra $500 for a computer in this environment -- same piece of hardware -- paying $500 more to get a logo on it? I think that's a more challenging proposition for the average person than it used to be." -- Steve Ballmer
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