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IT Apple Launches the Mac Pro
Tuan Nguyen (Blog) - August 7, 2006 1:08 PM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 51 comment(s) - last by gudodayn.. on Aug 9 at 9:23 PM
Apple's flagship desktop uses a pair of Intel Xeon DP processors

Apple today announced its new Intel-based line of desktop computers. Called the Mac Pro, Apple's new desktops have been a long wait for many. The new computers are what many consider to be the catalyst that will boost development of Apple x86 software to a whole new level. Many of the world's top designers and artists develop their work on Apple's desktops and with the new technology that's inside these machines, the performance of Apple's desktops will leap to a new level.

Based on Intel Woodcrest Xeon DP processors, the new Mac Pro desktops are multi-core, multi-processor systems. At first, it was predicted that Apple would use Intel's Core 2 Duo processors but Core 2 Duo processors are not capable of operating in SMP mode. Apple's previous desktops based on the G5 processor used two dual-core processors and thus living up to that expecation required the skip over Core 2. DailyTech covered Intel's Xeon DP processors earlier this month. The processors currently top out at 3.0GHz and all of them come with 4MB of L2 cache. The rest of the Mac Pro is equally advanced:
  • Processor: Intel Xeon DP processor up to 3.0GHz
  • Each Mac Pro comes with dual processors
  • Memory: Up to 16GB of DDR2 FB-DIMM memory
  • Graphics: Up to NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512MB
  • Storage: Up to 2TB of SATA storage
  • 4 PCIe slots
New to the Mac Pro desktops is the ability for single PCIe x16 graphics cards. The new Mac Pro desktops can be equipped with Fibre Channel controllers as well as other SCSI options. The desktops come with twin GigE Ethernet ports and built in AirPort for connecting to 802.11b/g networks and Bluetooth connectivity. The Mac Pro desktops are also fully equipped with Apple's usual assortment of ports and connectors: FireWire 400, FireWire 800, USB 2.0, analog audio jacks and optical digital audio jacks.

Despite all the new technology crammed into the Mac Pro, Apple's design team has yet again produced a machine that's very well thought out on the inside as much as it is on the outside. Internal air cooling is well thought out and the Mac Pro comes with no less than six low-RPM high volume fans. Components are well cooled and with a flip of a lever, they are easily accessable for upgrades and adjustments.

Over the past several months, Apple has been releasing its product transitions at a steady pace, first with the iMac and then the Mac mini. The new Mac Pro desktops complete Apple's consumer line of computers according to its press release, is available immediately. If Apple's new Mac Pro turns out to be what many have been hoping for, it could be one of the most powerful and promising computers Apple has launched -- and it runs both OS X and Windows.

The new Mac Pro starts at $2499 and comes with a base configuration of:
  • Two 2.6GHz Xeon Processors
  • 1GB of RAM
  • NVIDIA GeForce 7300GT 256MB
  • 250GB hard drive
  • Superdrive
The new Mac Pro desktops start shipping today.

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Still standard to expensive from apple.
By imaheadcase on 8/7/2006 2:39:27 PM , Rating: 1
To expensive still, maybe i would get a desire to try a mac if i could not build 2 PC for same price with equal performance




RE: Still standard to expensive from apple.
By bozilla on 8/7/06, Rating: 0
By imaheadcase on 8/7/2006 4:35:10 PM , Rating: 2
Mmm im not trolling, im just stating facts. Its true today as it has always been.

Did not know posting some fact is now called trolling. lol


RE: Still standard to expensive from apple.
By aliasfox on 8/7/2006 2:46:44 PM , Rating: 3
Until you check Newegg and see that each 2.66 GHz Woodcrest is $761 and Apple's using two of them in the $2500 model - sure, you could save some money by building it yourself, but by the time you get a nice case, PSU, and a legal copy of Windows (not to mention the other stuff that adds up after a while - motherboard, optical drive, RAM, entry level GPU, hard drive), you're not too far off in terms of price.

Sure it's more expensive than building it yourself - but for a pre-built machine, it's not too shabby.


RE: Still standard to expensive from apple.
By CU on 8/7/2006 3:26:47 PM , Rating: 2
True, but it should be way cheaper than you can build it for. They can buy in bulk and get special discounts from Intel, ATI, etc. Not a real comparisions, but you cannot build a computer cheaper than some of DELL's low end machines. Not sure about their high ends.


RE: Still standard to expensive from apple.
By rrsurfer1 on 8/7/2006 4:01:15 PM , Rating: 2
They get discounts, sure. But a lot of engineering goes into designing the case/cooling system and ensuring everything works well together. Those engineers don't work for free :)


RE: Still standard to expensive from apple.
By CU on 8/7/2006 4:10:31 PM , Rating: 2
And the engineers that design cases sold by Newegg do?


By CU on 8/7/2006 4:10:49 PM , Rating: 2
Or Dell?


RE: Still standard to expensive from apple.
By TK2K on 8/7/2006 4:04:06 PM , Rating: 1
you know nothing. end of story.

the mac pro is about $900 less then an equivilent dell. look it up for yourself.

orly? build me two computers with equal specifications that run as quietly as a mac pro does, and ill buy them.

oh, and they have to run os x flawlessly.

oh, and support sleep mode. sorry, you cant do that, since its hardware controled.



RE: Still standard to expensive from apple.
By CU on 8/7/2006 4:09:08 PM , Rating: 2
I said I was not sure about the high end, so why bring up the Mac Pro (Apples high end.) Oh, and the last PC I built runs XP fine, and supports sleep mode. It would run OSX also if Apple would release it for everyone instead of just their computers.


By plinden on 8/7/2006 4:27:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I said I was not sure about the high end, so why bring up the Mac Pro (Apples high end.)


Because this is an article about Apple's highend (Mac Pro)? And the original comment was that he could build two PCs with equivalent performance for the price of the Mac Pro?

Show us the config and pricing for a configurable PC that's quad core (2xXeon) 2.6GHz, quad SLI support, 1GB - 16GB RAM, up to 4x500GB HDs.

I'm sure you could build it for slightly less, but there's little of the "Apple premium" here, considering it costs considerably less than Dell's or HP's offerings.


By ShapeGSX on 8/7/2006 4:23:37 PM , Rating: 2
Huh? Are you under the impression that home built PCs don't work with sleep mode?

My home-built PC works great with S3 sleep mode. Hell, Windows Media Center even wakes the computer up automatically and seamlessly to record high definition TV shows for me. After it is done, it goes right back to sleep.


RE: Still standard to expensive from apple.
By aliasfox on 8/7/2006 4:31:31 PM , Rating: 4
Actually, in terms of economics, it really shouldn't be cheaper than you can build it for. It really isn't the cost of the components to Apple (or Dell or etc) that should set the market price, but the value of the end product to the consumer.

If the value (to the consumer) of the product is greater than the price of the product, then the product will sell. Obviously, anything that's successful on an open market has to adhere to this rule. And considering everyone is drooling over Core 2 Duo and many people are anxious to get their hands on it, one would assume that the value of Core 2 Duo is greater than the price that's being charged.

So if someone finds value in the end product (a functional Core 2 Duo machine), it stands to reason that a similar consumer (looking for a workstation product) would pay a similar price for the hardware. In addition, they would conceivably find value in not having to order individual components, assembly, and someplace to call when something goes wrong.

Therefore, a prebuilt computer with similar specifications to a legally home built machine should be at least as, if not somewhat more, expensive than the home built. At least, from a strict economics standpoint.

Of course, there are also people who value the process of picking out each individual component and putting it all together, so that may be a different argument for saying that prebuilt machines should be less expensive because they deprive the end user of the joy of assembly. However, as niche markets go, you have to admit that the number of people who prefer to put stuff into a case is far outweighed by the number of people who just want to pull it out of the box, plug it in, and turn it on.


RE: Still standard to expensive from apple.
By JCheng on 8/7/2006 7:04:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It really isn't the cost of the components to Apple (or Dell or etc) that should set the market price, but the value of the end product to the consumer.


Only in a monopoly, or price fixing. In a free market where competitors are selling goods that are perfect substitutes for each other, the selling price will tend toward the cost.

It makes intuitive sense--or else why wouldn't one of those companies price their products $1 cheaper than the others, and capture 100% of the market?


By aliasfox on 8/7/2006 11:20:50 PM , Rating: 2
Technically yes, but considering the computer market is neither a true monopoly (though it may seem that way with Intel taking ~70% of the processor market and Microsoft taking over 90% on each the OS and productivity software markets) nor an industry with perfect competition, we won't see a sale price equal to marginal cost, especially since Apple wants to be viewed as a purveyor of quality computers (but we won't go there for now).

So it's still relatively fair to charge what a substitute would cost (in this case, a home built machine), plus what the company feels is fair cost for assembly, warranty, and name brand recognition, especially if the demand curve for a premium computer (premium Apple, in this case) is relatively inelastic - most of you wouldn't purchase the machine if it were $1999 as opposed to $2499, and graphics/recording houses would still probably purchase one if it were priced at $2999.

Hell, the clothing industry is far more "perfect" in terms of competition, but I have yet to see a quality pair of jeans for $20 - let alone $10, which should be more than enough to cover materials, labor, packaging, and transportation.


By psychobriggsy on 8/8/2006 12:00:55 PM , Rating: 2
Your issue is that Apple don't offer a headless expandable unit, they offer headless integrated SFF units - the Mac Mini - at an excellent competitive price (for the form factor), and they offer headless workstations - the Mac Pro - at an excellent competitive price.

They don't offer headless home computers. They need a $999 - $1499 Conroe based single-processor computer, 4 (hell, 2 would suffice) DDR2 slots, PCIe x16 graphics slot (or two, for SLI), 250GB HD. It could be in a smaller version of the Mac Pro case - maybe some kind of bastard offspring of a Shuttle case and a Mac Pro case.

However for many people, this "Mac" would suffice instead of the Mac Pro. Guess that's why Apple don't offer it.


I suppose...
By epsilonparadox on 8/7/2006 1:23:48 PM , Rating: 2
in six months this mac pro dual processor/dual core config will be replaced by the kentsfield or the clovertown?




RE: I suppose...
By TK2K on 8/7/2006 1:58:21 PM , Rating: 2
yes, that is a given. a dual quad core version wil also come about, seeing as they are upgradeable on the fly. aka, just a bios update is needed, no socket nor chipset change.


RE: I suppose...
By epsilonparadox on 8/7/2006 2:04:23 PM , Rating: 2
is the clovertown pin compatible w/ the woodcrest?


RE: I suppose...
By TK2K on 8/7/2006 3:52:53 PM , Rating: 2
not sure, we have not seen any floating around yet, but we know the kenthsfield is


RE: I suppose...
By Jkm3141 on 8/7/2006 6:11:10 PM , Rating: 2
Clovertown is the desktop Quad Core (2 Conroe Dies), thus it is the same socket (pin compatible) with conroe (LGA775). Kentsfield is the quad core server chip (two woodcrests) and is pin compatible with the Woodcrest chips (LGA771). So no, clovertown is not pin comptabile with woodcrest, but kentsfield is.


RE: I suppose...
By ghost101 on 8/7/2006 8:08:14 PM , Rating: 2
Isnt it the other way round?


RE: I suppose...
By JeffDM on 8/7/2006 9:13:38 PM , Rating: 2
You do have it backwards. Kentsfield will become the Core 2 Duo Extreme. Clovertown will be the high end Xeon DP chip for workstations and servers. Whether the Mac Pro will be offered with them is an open question, I would expect those chips to be operating at a higher power rating than the dual core G5s.


GPU
By MonkeyPaw on 8/7/2006 2:17:03 PM , Rating: 2
I often wonder why Apple ships with such slow GPUs. For $2500, I want at least a 7600GT. I know that building a system around server components isn't cheap, but the Mac Pro should have a GPU that's at least better than the iMac! Oh well, I don't have the money for a Mac Pro to begin with.




RE: GPU
By ksherman on 8/7/2006 2:23:45 PM , Rating: 2
I completely agree, thought personally, it should be even more endowed, packing something more like a 7900GT or one right around there...


RE: GPU
By plinden on 8/7/2006 2:49:02 PM , Rating: 2
Those specs are the base - and all have two dual-core Woodcrest CPUs, i.e. are quad-core.

From the Apple store, you can configure up to four 7300GTs for $450 extra, or get an ATI Radeon X1900 512MB for $350 more, or a Quadro FX 4500 512MB for $1650 more.

And remember, these are professional workstations, roughly equivalent to the Dell Precision Workstations, rather than the Dell Dimensions or Optiplexes.


RE: GPU
By TK2K on 8/7/2006 3:54:24 PM , Rating: 2
uh, what are you talking about?

that is not a week gpu at all!! remember, these are work computers, not your toy computer. for workstation rendering its not that fast of a gput, but thats why there are upgrades avaiable for it.


also, noice the mac supports quad sli. ooh ra!


RE: GPU
By edwardhchan on 8/7/2006 7:44:15 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, no SLI at all on this ... you can install 4 7300GTs for a total of 8 monitors driven...


RE: GPU
By VooDooAddict on 8/8/2006 10:20:27 AM , Rating: 2
It's so they can use 4 x the 7300 for massive multi monitor support. (An ATI X1900XT is an option for those looking to game.)

This is a workstation class system and will most likely be sold for video/photo editing and development.

If you want a monster gaming rig ... a qual SLI from Alientware/Dell would be a better choice.

If you want a VMWare/Development/Testing system that can run every OS under the sun at the same time ... this is your rig.


Ultimate VMWare workstation?
By VooDooAddict on 8/8/2006 10:13:40 AM , Rating: 2
Anyone else thinking this could be a great VMware box? You would basically have access to any major OS on this box.

Price is actually quite reasonable for a workstation class system! I priced out the minimum dual Woodcrest configuration on Newegg and compared it with a near identical Mac Pro and the self build would have only saved 10% ($300) with a self built box. So you'd be paying around 10% more for the ability to also run OS X.




RE: Ultimate VMWare workstation?
By aliasfox on 8/8/2006 10:22:08 AM , Rating: 2
Ability to run OSX (both with native Intel code and emulated PPC code running at least as fast as the fastest G4 systems), not having to put it together yourself, being able to call (American) tech support (at least for a short while).

Though I guess you lose out on SLI and if you ever want to upgrade your GPU it'll be pricier (not to mention usually somewhat late to the party).

I'm a Mac person to the core, but don't get me wrong - it's far from perfect. But then again, find me a market that is perfect...


By psychobriggsy on 8/8/2006 12:04:52 PM , Rating: 2
Did that include the price of Windows XP Pro too?

$300 seems worthwhile for not having to have the hassle of building it, having support in case anything goes wrong and the very nice case design functionality wise. OS X is of course a nice bonus, even with the $129 upgrade you'll want next spring.


RE: Ultimate VMWare workstation?
By bozilla on 8/8/2006 5:54:26 PM , Rating: 2
Completely agree.

People seem to forget. Mac Pros are workstations. Who need SLI anyways. I've been trying to build a similar configuration on Newegg as I always do with 3ghz Woodcrests and I just can't justify it anymore. Fully loaded Mac Pro with 3ghz Woodcrests, 4gb of ram and all the goodies is pretty close to my price when built through Newegg and the PC I would build would not be able to run OSX to the point as you can on Mac Pro.

These new Mac machines are truly great and price is just right, no question about it. Running OSX and Windows is one of the most revolutionary things so far and I see Apple skyrocketing. For the first time in my life I am actually buying everything from Apple at this point.


RE: Ultimate VMWare workstation?
By bozilla on 8/8/2006 5:57:49 PM , Rating: 2
Oh and I'm pretty sure with Leopard it's gonna be good night Vista for good. For what I need PC for, I'll use XP through bootcamp and everything else OSX is the way to go.

It's a perfect example how unorganized business management, greed and sloppiness (read Microsoft on Vista in the past 6 years) can bring down even giants like Microsoft.

Is Vista, a beginning of the end for Microsoft? Quite possibly.


Nice max specs...
By GreenEnvt on 8/7/06, Rating: 0
RE: Nice max specs...
By Decel on 8/7/2006 1:29:22 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't it 1gb standard? That's what I've read.


RE: Nice max specs...
By gudodayn on 8/9/2006 9:23:30 PM , Rating: 2
Reagrdless of 256MB, 512MB or 1GB......a lot of PC's today are using 2 x 1GB as standard ~ its always been a trademark of MACs to over charge customers!!! ~~ PAY FOR THE EXTRA MEMORY

Apart from the CPU prices diagnosed in the recent article, they'll just over charge you for everything else and hence the $2499 prices....


RE: Nice max specs...
By Pirks on 8/7/2006 1:29:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
256MB ram standard is sad

The new Mac Pro comes with a base configuration of:
1GB of RAM


RE: Nice max specs...
By epsilonparadox on 8/7/2006 1:46:05 PM , Rating: 2
The author of the article changed the specs. It said before 256MB of ram and no mention of a HD. Now it says 1GB of ram and the 250GB HD.


Actually starts at $2200
By plinden on 8/7/2006 3:17:31 PM , Rating: 2
I took a closer look at the Apple Store, and you can downgrade the CPU to two 2.0GHz dual-cores, and 160GB HD, for $2200, or $1962 educational price.




RE: Actually starts at $2200
By TK2K on 8/7/2006 3:56:13 PM , Rating: 2
i was going to point this out as well.



RE: Actually starts at $2200
By gramboh on 8/7/2006 5:18:40 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not an Apple fan but this is actually a pretty good value for a desktop using that configuration. Not as much margin gouging as in the past (harder to gouge when people can readily price the CPU/MB I guess).


RE: Actually starts at $2200
By korbin43 on 8/7/2006 8:23:10 PM , Rating: 2
What I don't understand is why Apple doesn't offer an SLI configuration for the quadro fx 4500. Dell has a large offering of graphic card configurations and offers an SLI option for the quadro card. Since Apple is the supposed leader in the creative community, why not offer the best?


future..
By caater on 8/7/2006 2:39:06 PM , Rating: 2
i wonder if they'll come up with an intermediate solution..
using core2duo or upcoming sp socket775 xeons.
mac pro is killer.. though you need fb-dimms.
and i don't want to think about how much upgrading to clovertown xeons will cost.
probably they'll carry a hefty premium over $1200+ kentsfield..




RE: future..
By no special hurry on 8/7/2006 4:35:59 PM , Rating: 2
"i wonder if they'll come up with an intermediate solution"

Exactly. I truly hope Apple later releases a product supporting the single Core2 duo processor platform. Although the Mac Pro maybe a bargain when compared to the server offerings from other large institutions (as many people have recently pointed out rather voraciously), it is still expensive. I don't think I am alone here. Many people would like the expansion capabilities of a desktop enclosure similar to the Mac Pro (and unlike the Mini or iMac) but without the extra cost of server hardware. A core2duo platform would provide this. I shouldn't have to spend $3500-ish to have 2 hard drives and 2 optical drives and that's with no monitor!


RE: future..
By no special hurry on 8/7/2006 4:41:41 PM , Rating: 2
3500-ish

that is, with 2 gigs of Ram, 2 HD's, and 2 optical drives...and no monitor


I'm impressed
By RogueSpear on 8/7/2006 1:30:46 PM , Rating: 1
if you option it out pretty well. I'd be quite interested to see how nice video editing is this thing. I've always been a Mac hater since the very first one came out, but lately they're starting to get my interest.




RE: I'm impressed
By Fenixgoon on 8/7/2006 1:47:43 PM , Rating: 2
looks like with intel's help, apple is finally able to sell a decent product


RE: I'm impressed
By TK2K on 8/7/06, Rating: 0
RE: I'm impressed
By EarthsDM on 8/7/2006 2:02:57 PM , Rating: 1
What do you mean finally? I use windows myself, but Apple has produced some of the most powerful (and stable) photo and video editing workstations of the past decade.


PCIe is not "new"
By slashbinslashbash on 8/7/2006 5:22:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
New to the Mac Pro desktops is the ability for single PCIe x16 graphics cards


The PowerMac G5 has used PCIe x16 cards since October 2005 (with the introduction of the dual-core G5 processors).




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