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Discount shoppers rejoice, DRM won't be quite as draconian on the PS4

Sony Worldwide Studios President Shuhei Yoshida has news that will be music to gamers ears -- Sony Corp. (TYO:6758) is declining to block games with its next generation console, the PlayStation 4.

Recently rumors spread like wildfire that Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) would be incorporating a strong new digital rights management (DRM) scheme into its next generation console, the Xbox 720, to prevent the resale or playing of used games.  Basically games will be associated with your Xbox Live ID, so there will be no way to transfer titles or acquire titles at a discount second hand.

In an interview with EuroGamer, Sony's Yoshida takes a different approach.  He comments, "Do you want us to do that?"

When the interviewer replied that the customer expects to get some value that they can pass on when they buy the game (and effectively pay a licensing fee to the console maker), Mr. Yoshida voiced agreement.
"Yes. That's the general expectation by consumers.  They purchase physical form, they want to use it everywhere, right? So that's my expectation... So, used games can play on PS4. How is that?"

Sony did file a seemingly alarming patent [PDF] last month on technology to lock a game disc to a specific console to prevent resale.  But the good news for gamers is that technology appears to have nothing to do with the PlayStation 4.

The tables have certainly turned for the company, who was once infamous for pushing dangerous DRM on customers and losing a lawsuit over the practice.  Now Sony appears to be the one pushing the market to hold off on DRM, while Microsoft is pushing hard for more draconian measures.

So the question for gamers willing to consider a Sony console is this: if Microsoft deep-sixes used games via DRM, but Sony freely allows them, would that influence your buying decision?

Source: Eurogamer

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Xbox 720 vs Steam
By tlbj6142 on 2/21/2013 11:39:01 AM , Rating: 3
How is the rumored Xbox 720 software distribution model any different than the current Steam model?

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Pneumothorax on 2/21/2013 12:05:29 PM , Rating: 3
You're right they are pretty much the same, however...
Steam is just an option in purchasing a PC game. You're still more than welcome to buy a hard copy game from BB, Amazon, Newegg, etc... When the console maker themselves enforce a 'steam-like' licensing scheme, you have no alternatives and when you're trying to sell 'Halo 5' in 5 years on fleabay, you'll basically get pennies as it has the same worth as a coaster.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By dj LiTh on 2/21/13, Rating: 0
RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 1:27:18 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, the retail copy of Steam games IS the steam game.

So, when a game is a steam game, its typically solely a steam game requiring at least an account set up and likely requires an online connection to play. You can just buy it at Walmart, for the same price mind you.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By CZroe on 2/21/2013 11:06:09 PM , Rating: 2
Outside of Valve's own titles, not NEARLY always. The vast majority of games available at both retail and on Steam are separate and unrelated. Unlike early pre-Steam Valve games that can be claimed on Steam with the key code, the retail non-Steam version of a game rarely unlocks a Steam version (Prey is an exception). Only retail games with a Steam logo on the retail package behave as you describe. Crysis retail doesn't add Crysis to my list of downloadable Steam purchases, even though Steam may add it to my list of games for multiplayer matchmaking purposes. Duh.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Freakie on 2/22/2013 4:08:36 AM , Rating: 4
I think everyone is also forgetting that PC gamers have a completely different mindset than console gamers. Console gamers are used to going over to a friend's house and bringing a game and having a group of their friends all play this new awesome game. Most console games are built with that Multiplayer idea in mind... Console = Multiplayer and Multiplayer = playing in MANY different locations and consoles. There is a reason why consoles are built with ports for more than one controller. This idea of sharing and playing together is ingrained into console players.

PC Players on the other hand are used to playing alone. For one, multiplayer on the same machine is basically impossible and so PC games have a completely different version of multiplayer. Multiplayer on a PC means connecting to a server and playing with people all over the world. So the idea of Steam actually works much better in practice on PC's than it does on consoles and consoles trying to emulate that (heh, pun) are hurting a lot of people. Though in general I still don't like tying a game to one account, I think being able to sell or buy used games needs to stay. It's nice that Steam lets you give games away, but it'd also be nice if they could have a resale system setup to, and they can take a cut of the profit if they wish. PC Gamers are definitely used to giving their games to their friends for them to play once they've played it themselves. This is different than bringing a game to a friend's house to play on their console because you don't expect to take the game back home the next day. And of course as others have mentioned, the incredibly cheap prices of Steam games compared to their console counterparts really helps in convincing gamers of the distribution model.

Long story short: Microsoft, the Xbox isn't a PC Gaming platform, do NOT distribute games the same way that many PC games are heading towards. You can't have your console be a multimedia center for groups of people to gather around and be entertained by, and then lock down the content to just that one device. People want to SHARE their entertainment.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By maugrimtr on 2/22/2013 11:17:32 AM , Rating: 2
There's something else to bear in mind. The EU is currently slowly moving towards a regime that recognises a person's rights to reselling downloadable software (it's already widely considered legal - the mechanics just aren't defined in legislation). It may take years but this could very quickly undermine how legal the Steam (and rumoured Xbox 720) account locking actually are.

It's easy to forget that buying something for $50 that can be resold at $20 leaves the net cost to you at $30 (it's actual value to you). If you remove the resale, the same product now has an extra $20 premium built in. That's the pure profit publishers are desperate to grab by removing it from YOU. That should mean that all similar games fall in price or that demand falls - otherwise you end up with a perverted market where people are paying over the odds.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By FITCamaro on 2/22/13, Rating: -1
RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By nolisi on 2/22/2013 1:11:19 PM , Rating: 5
You can name call the EU leadership all you want- but these days, Corporations are full of anti-consumer morons who only care about grabbing as much money as *they* can. I have no sympathy if one money grabber loses out to another.

They don't like the terms of doing business in the EU, don't do business in the EU period.

I love how corporate sympathizers love shove the "don't buy it" argument in the face of consumers, while attacking government for the exact same behavior that corporations exhibit (money grabbing) while ignoring their own cardinal rule that they impose on consumers: if you don't like it, don't buy(in this case, do business).

There's a "market" for government entities just like there's a market for suppliers/demanders. Governments like the EU can impose their costs on doing business because they have constituent consumers with disposable income...just like MS can charge what they want because they have a product that has demand.

Point being- stop complaining about governments and taxation. If a corporation didn't like it, they don't have to do business there. Stop imposing your shortsighted double standard on consumers.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By FITCamaro on 2/22/2013 3:45:48 PM , Rating: 1
Corporations exist to make money. Government's should not.

I am all for companies not doing business in states, countries, or continents that punish them for trying to do business there.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By nolisi on 2/22/2013 8:00:18 PM , Rating: 4
Corporations exist to make money. Government's should not.

Governments exist to serve people (and subsequently corporations). In order to do that they need money. They do exist at some level to make money.

You always seem to stop short of logical conclusions.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By FITCamaro on 2/22/2013 3:50:02 PM , Rating: 2
Everyone loves to say "corporations shouldn't be greedy" until they have a product they want to sell and want to make money off it. Maybe you're stupid enough to want other people or a government telling you how much money you should be allowed to make, but I don't.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I don't want anyone doing anything bad to me, so I'm not going to try to do anything bad (or get a government to do it for me) to anyone else.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Chaser on 2/22/2013 5:39:00 PM , Rating: 1
I love how corporate sympathizers love shove the "don't buy it" argument in the face of consumers, while attacking government for the exact same behavior that corporations exhibit (money grabbing) while ignoring their own cardinal rule that they impose on consumers: if you don't like it, don't buy(in this case, do business).
Unlike governments -EU and elsewhere- corporations try and make money. Governments take from everyone including corporations. Governments very rarely turn a profit. They operate way out of their means and rather than operate responsibly with budgeting they borrow money into obivion with impunity. CEO's can't campaign and rise to the top on a platform of creating a shared misery "utopia" with other people's confiscated money while they get rich.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Piiman on 2/23/2013 1:59:27 PM , Rating: 2
Hmmm so when was the last time you could read the terms and conditions before you bought it and opened the box? By the time you get to the "terms" you've already bought the game and are a click away from installing it.

Have fun trying to return it saying you didn't agree with the "terms" lol

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Rukkian on 2/21/2013 12:08:07 PM , Rating: 3
How is the rumored Xbox 720 software distribution model any different than the current Steam model?

Because you can use steam on as many computers as you want, just only 1 at a time. That is not what is rumored about MS, it is saying if you get say a RROD, you will need to buy another copy of the game. If you go to a friends house, buy another copy of the game. If you have multiple consoles in your house, buy more copies of the game, even if one one person uses it and only at one place at a time.

Adding to that, but less of a difference is that steam routinely has sales that heavily discount games, and keep their games up to date instead of charging astronomical fees to update a game.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Varun on 2/21/2013 12:14:30 PM , Rating: 2
Yes because being tied to your Xbox Live ID will do that because you can only log in on one console otherwise you need to buy another console.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By eagle470 on 2/21/2013 12:20:28 PM , Rating: 2
Or you could just log out of your console and into your friends......

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By RufusM on 2/21/2013 12:55:12 PM , Rating: 4
Generally when something gets taken away, something else of value is added or most consumers won't go for it.

In the case of Steam, yes the game is tied to your Steam account, but the games are also typically priced lower than retail so that's additional value they're offering. User can log also into into Steam on several PCs giving at least a little bit of additional value. Convenience is the third factor.

If Microsoft disallows used games and doesn't give consumers some sort of incentive (maybe price discount or multi-console use) it's a total loss of what the consumer used to have. In that situation, the only advantage is convenience of downloading versus purchasing a game disc. If Microsoft does this for downloads and game discs they're taking out any possible gain for the consumer.

I somehow don't think Microsoft will do this though. They rely on retailers to sell their consoles, games, PCs, software, mice, keyboards, etc. If they piss off retailers too much they'll stop pushing Microsoft products. If they do this, Microsoft would likely need to sell everything themselves (hardware and software) or come up with other retail alliances.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 12:59:22 PM , Rating: 1
The games are RARELY priced lower than retail when newly released. Not one AAA game that has been released on Steam that I've purchased was at reduced price. The lesser titles, maybe.

The true could be the same with MS too, we just don't know yet.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By poohbear on 2/21/2013 1:05:25 PM , Rating: 2
really? i bought hitman:absolution for $15 only a few months after release. its back up to $49.99, so plenty of AAA games are on sale shortly after release.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 1:09:09 PM , Rating: 2
a few months after release, exactly.

What's to say MS wouldn't / couldn't do the same?

I'm not denying Steams does discounts, but to say when a game is released you can get it cheaper on Steam just isn't true. A game is essentially not a new release months later in sales terms.

My point is more that people are taking extreme positions based on rumors and I can't imagine thats a reaction real enthusiasts take. It's a fan-ism reaction.

Not directed at you specifically, just trying to add some facts to the rumor mill generating here.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By TheSlamma on 2/21/2013 4:25:20 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry dude but MS doesn't do sales even 3 years down the road. Look at their "Deal of the week" rags they run.. every one of em has been a joke. You seriously must have zero experience with Steam sales, cause they just about give away games at times. about the best you will get from STEAL of the week is an 800 point game down to 400 or a 1200 point game down to 800 which we all knows just means $5 off.. Steam it's easy to find 75% off titles

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By TheSlamma on 2/21/2013 4:44:18 PM , Rating: 2
Just to back it up, right now MS's Deal of the week is Skyrim for $40 down from $60, Steam's sale 2 months ago last month was $30. Today Steam has two sales for 75% off, Deus Ex: Human Revolution for $5.. sorry but that's a steal in comparison to the sales MS is willing to run. I have an Xbox, I'm cool with MS.. but they do not hold a candle to the sales Steam runs.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/22/2013 12:55:37 PM , Rating: 2
You're ignoring the point I already made, which is that Xbox Live does not presently compete or even attempt to attain parity with STeam. That means they are not even close to competitors right now.

Now that Steam and MS are moving into each other territories we can judge them according WHEN THEY ACTUALLY GET THERE.

In other words, basing MS future actiosn on what they are doing on Xbox luive today makes NO SENSE when its going to be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

That's all.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Phoque on 2/21/2013 5:21:06 PM , Rating: 2
They rely on retailers to sell their consoles, games, PCs, software, mice, keyboards, etc. If they piss off retailers too much they'll stop pushing Microsoft products. If they do this, Microsoft would likely need to sell everything themselves (hardware and software) or come up with other retail alliances.

If retailers make a good profit off the sale on the console, I don't see any of them backing off from the market because they can't sale the softwares anymore. And if some does, others will compensate and just reap more profit from the extra console sales. Players exiting is a money opportunity for others. Really, I can't see anything going wrong in that regard, definitely not to the point of hurting Microsoft's hardware sales.

They would lose sales from people going away from a closed used game market, but not from retailers refusing to sell their product.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Rukkian on 2/21/2013 12:21:45 PM , Rating: 2
Yes because being tied to your Xbox Live ID will do that because you can only log in on one console otherwise you need to buy another console.

And if that was the way it it, I don't think people would have as much trouble with it. Even though it is all rumors, the rumor has been that it is tied to a console, not just your id. Again, this is all a rumor at this point, and MS is probably just trying to see what the backlash is.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 1:01:33 PM , Rating: 2
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!? I can sign in with my xbox id to another console today so did MS confirm they are dissallowing this going forward?

I've heard no such thing other than extremly negative speculation

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 12:58:24 PM , Rating: 3
Rumors are jsut that, rumors. Not facts.

That said, not one person here can confirm the inability to log in to a friends xbox and play your games when logged in with you ID.

That seems very possible, so why is everyone assuming you cannot?

Don't Xbox Live games work exactly this way? Or Arcade whatever the mini-games are referred to as.

Also, you have no idea that MS won't likewise follow in steams steps and offer any discounts. If Steam as a vendor can why can't MS.

The rumor mill is outrageously negative at this time and its based on absolutely nothing other than a vocal minority angry about a barrier to pirating.

The majority of people don't care. See Apple and Steam users for proof.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Solandri on 2/21/2013 2:54:30 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, most rumors are released by the companies themselves as "trial balloons". The company then gauges public reaction to the idea to decide if they really want to go ahead with it or not.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/22/2013 12:53:54 PM , Rating: 2
Sure. That said, are you indicating that means we should take rumors with, uh... more than a grain of salt? Not my style personally.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By p05esto on 2/21/2013 10:35:58 PM , Rating: 2
If that is true Xbow will be dead in the water and a total flop. I doubt MS will screw up that bad and now allow used games though. It would truly be the last huge mistake before MS goes down the tubes.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By GreenEnvt on 2/21/2013 12:08:38 PM , Rating: 1
Well for 1, it ties the game to a specific console, not a specific account.
It would be slightly more palatable if you could still bring your game discs to a friends and sign in to play.

Still wouldn't help with reselling though.
I think if Microsoft is set on making money from used game sales, charge a $10 fee for "ownership transfer". Console maker and publisher can split it.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 1:00:20 PM , Rating: 2
Well for 1, it ties the game to a specific console, not a specific account.

Speculation or is this confirmed? I see no where at the moment where MS has stated as much.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By GreenEnvt on 2/21/2013 1:44:33 PM , Rating: 2
Nothing is confirmed yet. For all we know Microsoft could actually pay you $50 for giving your used copy to a friend.

Everything about this is rumour at this point. I was extrapolating based on those rumours.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 2:03:13 PM , Rating: 2
I have a feeling I know that we aren't going to be paid to play. Just a hunch.

In fact, its infinitely more likel ythan most of what I am reading on here.

I appreciate your thinking on your own and what not, I'm just adding that there's no reason to dwelve into the negative (not so much you as others) when we know virtually nothing.

What we do know is MS is a business, a successful one in multiple established markets. Why would it proclude itself from sales and purposely make itself inferior to Sony or Steam?

There's no reason to beleive that anything that is true of Steams model today couldn't / wouldn't be true on Xbox Live with Ms as the vendor.

Other than unfounded negativity IMO. Just trying to keep it real.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Pneumothorax on 2/21/2013 2:20:11 PM , Rating: 2
Who knows, maybe microsoft is 'leaking' this info on purpose to see the response to it. If the general gaming public and press is overly negative on this, it may convince them otherwise. I know you're using the Steam on PC analogy, but a better comparison is the current business model, where you can buy Halo 4 for $60, play it for a few weeks, get tired of it and sell it for $40. Making it a $20 game. If everyone 'praises' Microsoft's rumors and they go ahead with this crap, you'll never be able to sell that game again other than for memorabilia.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By nikon133 on 2/21/2013 3:57:23 PM , Rating: 2
I see a point for online games. After all, someone has to maintain game servers. While it still is only one person at the time playing game, transferring license will keep game live longer, and force publisher to keep game servers online longer, with all the expenses accustomed to that. $10 for on-line license transfer is acceptable, IMHO.

But... I cannot see justification for offline games. In ideal world (for publishers), they'd be getting money for the game eternally, but in real world, car manufacturers don't get a buck when I sell my old car. Nor does anyone else when I sell my old anything. Why would game publishers be any luckier?

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By p05esto on 2/21/2013 10:43:34 PM , Rating: 2
Reselling is a MUST. I only buy used games off of eBay a year or two after release. When I can get great games for $20 why would I pay $60?

So maybe I'm the kind of person MS is trying to stop? Well, I still buy the hardware, controllers, maybe xbox live and with launch a couple games. Used games are new at one point don't forget it's still a sale.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Johnny Rants on 2/21/2013 12:10:51 PM , Rating: 2
That is such an easy question to answer, at least steam will sell a game at a discount, such as 2.50 - 20.00 on good sales of top games. Microsoft and many other game publishing as of late only want 60 dollar or more games never coming down in price. A good example is Skyrim, it did not drop below 60 dollars until Thanksgiving sale a year after release, which is when I ended up buying it.

I would take Steam over Microsoft any day due to that fact alone. In fact if steam ever made a console i'd probably buy it, just because I "can" at some point get games for a price i'm willing to pay.

As a side note, as far as I know most games on steam can also be played without an internet connection. So if my internet goes down I don't actually have to be online to play although steam may have changed that at some point and I'm not aware but I think my copy of Rage can be played without logging into my steam account, in single player at least.

The mandatory internet connection is stupid in my opinion. What if I was to play during a storm that knocks out my internet connection or my ISP goes through outage, it does happen and making it so I can't have access to games I pay for because of an outage that is not power outage related just plain sucks.

I find it very bothersome and concerning that today games and media (movies and such) can be sold without packaging, shipping, mailing, or even through retailers but the price of the same products requiring paper ink packaging shipping and what not are either the same price or higher. If you save money doing something then pass that savings on what is going on now is greed plain and simple and nothing more.

I refuse to get bank statements or any other document emailed to me for that reason, if you are not going to pass any savings on to me then I'm not gonna bother trying to save you postage, mail my documents to me as required or offer me some incentive to save you money by getting it digitally, such as waving of bank fees or some other similar notion, that atm fee for using non asscoiated atms is rather bothersome, maybe take my savings from mailings and make my atm fee for non associated atms be lessoned by a similar amount? Doesn't have to be the same but at least close, if mailing saves 30 cents then knock off the atm fee 25 cents they still come out a nickel ahead and a nickel made off of millions is quite a tidy sum still.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 1:02:48 PM , Rating: 2
Did you get confirmation MS will never offer discounts? Btw, Steam never offers discounts on brand new AAA games.

They release at retail pricing and the deals come after to stimulate sales.

Why on Earth would MS not also do that?

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By hugo_stiglitz on 2/21/2013 1:27:09 PM , Rating: 2
Btw, Steam never offers discounts on brand new AAA games.

Not exactly true. I remember when Batman: AC was released on Steam (Oct/Nov 2011). Then, Dec came and they had their Steam holiday sale I saw the game for 50% off. This included all the DLC as well.

Have you ever seen something like this on the 360? I'm talking about an AAA title go on sale for 50% off within 2 months after release...

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 2:07:54 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, I won't claim to know the entirely of Steam's history of launch pricing. I can speak only to my experience which is fairly experienced.

That said, let me revise and say its extremely rare that a AAA title is released on Steam and store with Steam have the favorable price within the first 3-4 weeks or month.

That said, with Batman, I don't know that's considered a AAA title particularly on PC. Remember that jsut because a game is a blockbuster on console doesn't mean the PC sales are held to the same pricing standard.

I think that game suffered to sell on PC, hence the cut I would guess.

No, I haven't seen something like that on 360, but I venture thats's because in its present form, Xbox live does not compete with Steam or any other vendor. That won't be true next gen because Valve and MS will chose to move into each other territories, making them much more direct competitors. MS cannot compete with anyone if they won't be competitive on price. MS has demonstrated this many times before so I don't have a reason at this time to assume they will go to the worst case scenario by default.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Johnny Rants on 2/21/2013 2:10:11 PM , Rating: 1
Have you been on XBox live lately? The "discounts" microsoft offers are so marginal they don't even feel worth looking at. I have seen 60 dollar games released on steam for 50 the day of released top tier game. Never is a strong word but I can honestly say "I" have never seen microsoft offer any steep discount outside of a vendor/partner channel offering. Steam will also lower the price long before Microsoft or other retail offerings do. My friend bought Skyrim for PC for 30 bucks off steam LONG before it was released for that price anywhere else.

No the 360 is the last gaming system I buy from Microsoft. They cater to people that have money to spend on pointless endeavors, such as spending hundreds of dollars on a facebook game that is nothing more than clicking the mouse and watching timers count down.

Good for anyone capitalizing on that business model but to make that business model the standard practice plain sucks, its greed at its worse.

No one is saying games should not release at 60 dollar but to just keep it there and not drop for a year or longer is greed and nothing more. Its punishing people who don't have 20+ dollar an hour jobs, or who just sit around with disability checks with nothing else to spend money on.

And microsoft makes you pay for Xbox live, you pay for internet access that you already pay an ISP for. IF they want that then microsoft needs to start their on ISP business. I don't pay for co-op on PS3 or least didn't when it first came out. I don't pay for co-op on PC, I pay my ISP and that's it.

There have been plenty of good incite on this topic, what incite are you giving?

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By piroroadkill on 2/21/2013 12:44:03 PM , Rating: 2
Except games on Steam are dirt cheap, and often available in obscene sales.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 1:04:34 PM , Rating: 2
MS said they won't do this? And correction, not new games are often dirt cheap. Often because they are played out and they want some additional sales.

It's smart, so why wouldn't MS do this too? To my knowlege they have confirmed nothing in that regard. Why is everyone assuming the worlds exploding here?

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By TheSlamma on 2/21/2013 4:18:30 PM , Rating: 2
The price is 5X as much.

Done and Done

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By TakinYourPoints on 2/21/2013 6:32:17 PM , Rating: 3
It isn't. If consoles go the way of restricting the ability to sell used games it isn't anything new, they're simply catching up with what we've had on the PC via Steam and Battlenet for years.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By TakinYourPoints on 2/21/2013 6:35:20 PM , Rating: 2
Obviously Steam has taken the bite out of its user restrictions by having such deep price cuts with their sales. If consoles go the same way with restrictions then they'd better learn from this.

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Doken44 on 2/22/2013 8:24:02 PM , Rating: 2
Steam allows trading.
They don't have a secure method for selling used games, however. It'd be perfect if they did.

In other Steam related news, Heard of the Steam Box?

RE: Xbox 720 vs Steam
By Doken44 on 2/22/2013 8:26:17 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps the PS4 will be Steam compatible. They have a Steam client for the PS3 bundled with Portal 2, so I think it's possible.

By tayb on 2/21/2013 11:46:54 AM , Rating: 4
I'm sorry but after the PS3/Linux debacle I'm taking these words from Sony with a giant helping of salt. It would be so unbelievably easy to implement this mid-stream with a simple software update. And hey, they can't "force" you to update the software but the new update is required to play online...

We've already seen EA implement their own version of this in their games so this could simply be Sony saying "we aren't going to implement this but we aren't going to force studios to not do it."

By FITCamaro on 2/21/2013 11:53:58 AM , Rating: 2
Studios even now give you the game but require a code to access certain content. That will likely still be the case in the next generation. There's nothing the console manufacturers can do about that.

By tayb on 2/21/2013 11:58:42 AM , Rating: 2
Sony could put a stop to that immediately by changing license agreements with developers. They choose not to.

By GulWestfale on 2/21/2013 12:52:51 PM , Rating: 2
sony recently patented a mechanism that links your game to the first console you put it into, even without an internet connection. developing that kind of tech, patenting it, and then not using it doesn't make sense to me. they are lying (what a shock. sony? really? lol).

By nikon133 on 2/21/2013 4:02:21 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe they wanted to patent it first so they can license it to MS?

Patent owners are not always patent implementers...

By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 1:26:11 PM , Rating: 2
Sony isn't in a position of power to do anythign of the sort especially after the PS3 debacle. So many devs are poissed off with the rampant pirating that took place on Sony's platform nevemrind the poor sales performance of the PS3 comapred to its competitors.

Sony can't dictate a ton for fear of pushing more devs and titles exclusively into another camp.

By nikon133 on 2/21/2013 4:10:05 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry... what are you talking about?

Rampart pirating happened on PSP. It had potential of happening on PS3 after console was hacked, 2 years back, but with that little puppy-eyed celebrity hacker's ar*e nailed by Sony's lawyers and a few firmware updates quickly released in a row, it really never materialised.

Consumers to Sony:
By Wolfpup on 2/21/2013 12:18:55 PM , Rating: 4
Thanks, we will be buying Playstation 4, not Xbox 3.

RE: Consumers to Sony:
By T2k on 2/21/2013 2:16:50 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, pretty much sums up everybody's feelings. If MS goes ahead with its ban they can only blame themselves for their idiocy when people won't buy their junk.

RE: Consumers to Sony:
By luhar49 on 2/24/2013 7:43:30 PM , Rating: 2
Same here. Will stick with Sony PS4 and also buying their Xperia Z for good effect...

Cloud based
By Luticus on 2/21/2013 2:11:17 PM , Rating: 3
Xbox live ids are cloud based. Tying a game to your Xbox account does not tie it to your console. I can log into anybody’s Xbox console with my live ID.

I'm sure Microsoft has a method for transferring the game between accounts. This measure could be for downloaded games only, who knows? It is just a rumor.

That said, the PS4 does look pretty interesting. As an owner of all 3 current gen consoles I do look forward to the new machines from both Sony and Microsoft. I do not currently own a WiiU but I’ll probably pick one up when a new Zelda comes out.

RE: Cloud based
By Visual on 2/22/2013 6:23:29 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sure Microsoft has a method for transferring the game between accounts.

Yea, right. Like they have a method for transferring DLCs between accounts right now...
(Hint: They don't.)

OT but...
By drlumen on 2/21/2013 3:53:15 PM , Rating: 3
Is anyone else getting tired of the word "draconian".

Just to be helpful:
Main Entry: draconian
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: harsh
Synonyms: brutal, cruel, drastic, exorbitant, extreme, heavy-handed, oppressive, rough, severe, strict, very severe

RE: OT but...
By TheSlamma on 2/21/2013 4:47:59 PM , Rating: 2
Yep, I'm getting tired of indoctrination, fiscal cliff and "like" too.

The one statement
By mike66 on 2/21/2013 6:49:03 PM , Rating: 2
That one statement by sony has changed my purchase, I like to own what I purchase. Nice one.

RE: The one statement
By Phoque on 2/21/2013 7:23:11 PM , Rating: 2

Sony president of Worldwide Studios Shuhei Yoshida
On activation codes for secondhand PS4 titles
It's a publisher decision. We are not talking about it. Sorry.

Sony is being deliberately ambiguous about the issue. That's what the quote I've put here makes me believe. So I would wait before taking a decision if I were you. As far as I'm concerned, the issue is not closed yet. Publishers might decide owners of second hand games need to purchase a code activation to be able to play the game.

Humble Pie
By ChronoReverse on 2/21/2013 11:27:30 AM , Rating: 2
I'm certainly hoping Sony has learned its lesson from the various fiascos in the past.

At the very least, they aren't making developer unfriendly hardware and claiming the moon about it.

By NellyFromMA on 2/21/2013 12:54:56 PM , Rating: 2
Basically games will be associated with your Xbox Live ID, so there will be no way to transfer titles or acquire titles at a discount second hand.

Is that confirmed?!? You did say it was from the rumor mill but so far its a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE assumption there will be no means WHAT SO EVER to transfer a title. MS has released no info, so why are we spreading the most extreme rumor?

Games should be different from Office?
By croc on 2/21/2013 4:56:35 PM , Rating: 2
If MS Office is tied to one PC, why not MS games tied to one MS console?

(Thankfully, neither my wallet nor my PC is tied to MS....)

By p05esto on 2/21/2013 10:31:08 PM , Rating: 2
I've been a Xbox loyal.... but I'm starting to like what I hear about the Playstation. It's a little beefier, faster RAM, nice controller, no DRM, can play used games, doesn't require internet, easier to develop for.

If all of these things remain true towards launch I'll be moving to team Playstation!! And the thing is, I don't really care. MS has been pissing me off ever since Win8 was rummored. Now I simply can't stand it and the Xbox rumors sound terrible so far.

By p05esto on 2/21/2013 10:48:23 PM , Rating: 2
I woulnd't buy the same amount of games if I was forced to only buy new ones. The amount of money I have to spend on gaming doesn't change. So the only thing MS would accomplish by locking out used games is that I would have less games to play and thus less fun and less time spent on their machine. I would be spiteful and disgruntled, I wouldn't have much praise for a system like that loaded up with DRM and sucky features.

By chick0n on 2/22/2013 5:40:09 AM , Rating: 2
I never sell any of my games cuz i simply dont buy garbage.

Some ppl might say oh so i can at least get 20 bux back for my next game. That might sound alright but u still lose at least 30 bux and end up with no game and u gotta pay at least another 30 bux more for another game, the only person win in this game is places like gamestop.

Sure the game worth pennies in a year or so, but i still want to keep then(and i can afford it) cuz its part of my memories.

Then MS won't do it either
By BifurcatedBoat on 2/22/2013 12:50:21 PM , Rating: 2
The only way it could have happened is if both console manufacturers decided to do it at the same time. Otherwise, if you have the choice between a game you can resell and one you can't, they're the same price, and roughly equal quality, which one would you choose?

MS now will not block used games, and I wouldn't be surprised if publicly they try to deny that they even seriously considered it.

Response to Sony's Choice
By dtmad on 2/24/2013 10:03:28 PM , Rating: 2
That makes me incredibly happy to hear. I am highly, morally opposed to game-copying and piracy in general, but i do appreciate the ability to switch games to other systems and sharing games between other friends as allowed by i believe FCC?.

While i love X-box and don't have a ps3, if Microsoft pursues such tactics to reduce piracy(not against reducing piracy, just this strong-arm method)..i will be switching to PS4. In fact, hear their statement about a "moral contract" with customers, i'm already reconsidering switching over.

"Folks that want porn can buy an Android phone." -- Steve Jobs

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