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New Windows Phone update is also in store

Windows 8 sales have been mixed, with Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) seeing strong OEM support and moving a lot of licenses, but struggling in sales -- particularly among enthusiasts.  At the root of the controversy is the rich graphical GUI formerly known as "Metro", which today is referred to as Windows 8 UI.  

There've been unconfirmed rumors that a Windows 8 update code-named Windows Blue was in store for later this year or early next year.  Now those rumors have seemingingly been confirmed, and Microsoft has dropped an indication that it make respond to criticism and tweak the UI.

In a job posting, first noted by Charon at Ma-config.com, Microsoft seeks an experienced software engineer, writing:

We’re looking for an excellent, experienced SDET to join the Core Experience team in Windows Sustained Engineering (WinSE). The Core Experience features are the centerpiece of the new Windows UI, representing most of what customers touch and see in the OS, including: the start screen; application lifecycle; windowing; and personalization. Windows Blue promises to build and improve upon these aspects of the OS, enhancing ease of use and the overall user experience on devices and PCs worldwide.

In a second post, Twitter user @h0x0d (Walking Cat on Twitter) notes a second post, pertaining to Windows Phone Blue:

Windows Phone Blue

Excel MX is expected to OneNote MX and Lynx MX as a touch-optimized offering available from the Windows Store.

ZDNet's Mary Jo Foley indicates Microsoft is gunning hard to try to deliver the UI and services overhaul by the end of this upcoming summer.  The refresh is expected to be the first cross platform push for Microsoft's new unified strategy; Windows 8, Windows Phone 8, Windows Server 2012, Hotmail, and SkyDrive will all receive similar makeovers.

Windows 8 UI critics shouldn't get too excited -- the new UI isn't expected to bring back the "Start" button, a perpetual criticism of the Windows 8 UI.

A major focus of the Blue update is to improve APIs to make it easier to design an app that works with only a few modifications, on both Windows 8 and Windows Phone.

Sources: Microsoft [1], [2 via Twitter]



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I never used to think...
By Motoman on 2/18/2013 4:32:36 PM , Rating: 5
...that Microsoft had fanbois the way that Apple does. MS has always, as far as I have seen, been regarded generally no better than simply the only logical choice - and frequently just the lesser of available evils. There's never been any analog to Tony Swash or Macdevdude for MS - people just completely detached from reality and just pimping their favored company while ignoring all available evidence that said company is a POS.

But, here's some collection of people who appear to *actually* believe there's merit to the Metro interface. Which is so blatantly, obviously, horrifically terrible for a desktop or laptop as to lead one to question the sanity of anyone who thinks it's a good idea. I have literally NEVER met a single person who likes Win8 on a desktop or laptop - and I work with some of the biggest software companies and Fortune 500 organizations in the world.

And yet, here you people are. Which begs just one question: why?




RE: I never used to think...
By retrospooty on 2/18/2013 4:49:30 PM , Rating: 5
I dunno... I forced myself to try it again, just to make sure I am up on it to help others troubleshoot... And I was answering a challenge from a friend, to give it an honest try for 1 month... I have been using it on my main desktop PC for the past 8-9 days and I can honestly say its not that bad. Once you get all your shortcuts set up and get over the hate for the new UI, its OK. Not thrilled with it, but its tolerable and I will probably keep it.

Maybe that should be the ad slogan. Windows 8 with Metro UI... "Its really not that bad"


RE: I never used to think...
By tamalero on 2/20/2013 12:00:39 AM , Rating: 1
thats the problem.
No software should be a nightmare to "start up".

we lose countless of hours trying to find these shortcuts when my coworkers got new machines preinstalled with windows8.


RE: I never used to think...
By Azethoth on 2/22/2013 5:23:43 AM , Rating: 2
Meh, I hated the goddamned start button with a passion. I hated that thing for decades, well almost 2.

I love Metro. It is what I want in a launch screen.


RE: I never used to think...
By Ramstark on 2/18/2013 6:02:46 PM , Rating: 1
Oh please...really? Now that's your excuse Moto? "MS now has fanboys" next will be "I'm the only one to see the light" C'mon...you can do better...

Windows 8 is a solid OS, the GUI needs work, but THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT. MS is working on and LISTENING to the user base, something the other "Fortune 500" like you call them, are always faking (cof cof, Google, Apple, HP, etc)

So please, continue drinking the hateorade...


RE: I never used to think...
By GladeCreek on 2/18/2013 7:05:11 PM , Rating: 2
Bah, maybe you or someone you know tried Win8, but obviously never took the time to really learn to use it. The people I know that hate 8 are too busy trying to stuff the UI back in to Win7 format. Shortcuts? Pins? Forget that crap. The Start screen is really awesome once you get it.

Here's how it works: Hit the Win key to get to the start screen, then type anything - I mean anything, and you there you go.

Wanna go to dailytech: win key+www.dailytech.com+enter, done. No need to launch a web browser first.

Looking for a document (or any file)? Win Key+ whatever you're searching for, and it's right there in the files section.

Need to launch Excel? Winkey+"excel"+enter - works for every app that way.

Need an admin command prompt, Winkey+X+A. Done. In fact, most common stuff is in the Winkey+X menu. 3 key presses takes me to places that would take several screens and many clicks in Win7.

When I'm working on someone else's Win7 machine, I find myself combing through the start menu looking for what I need to launch, click to open subfolders, find they moved it somewhere else... cumbersome.


RE: I never used to think...
By Motoman on 2/18/2013 8:10:21 PM , Rating: 1
You can do the *exact* same thing in Win7. Type "excel" in the search thing, hit Enter, BAM - Excel launches. Yay.

Except that, of course, the whole point to a "GUI" is to *not* have to type everything you want to do. THAT'S WHY WE LEFT DOS. It's mid-boggling that you think it's a "feature" to "just type everything in!"

For retards and morons who only use their PCs to play Farmville and read their Hotmail, I'm sure it's fine. So, you have fun with that.

But if you're an actual person, who has lots of programs installed on your PC, the Metrosexual UI is such an obvious catastrophe that not a single word can be uttered from your mouth in it's defense without you betraying your own idiocy. There is no way to defend it. None. You may as well still be trying to enforce the theory that the world is flat.

But here I go again, trying to talk sense into someone who's a Metrosexual fanboi. We should have a little tag or something for you people, to mark you as little mini-Swashs, so that people will know not to pay attention to you.


RE: I never used to think...
By Unspoken Thought on 2/18/2013 10:54:40 PM , Rating: 2
Your post is a great indicator of human devolution. Unable to change or adapt and find the benefits of new methods, or old.

DOS has it's place as does Windows 7 and 8. Those who need the power of the command prompt use it. Those who have found Windows 8 to be more efficient for them do so, and don't complain that Windows 7 is inferior.

Being unable to see the pros and cons in another's perspective has left you with sour grapes and blind to any possible insights into creative problem solving.

It's sad to read that you actually have a job collaborating with major corporations. Shortsightedness must be a valued trait employers are looking for these days.

BTW, a quick tip scenario for locating multiple programs from the Metro screen. Group and label your applications according to frequency of use (or however you want). Then utilize semantic zoom:

"The Semantic Zoom interaction is performed with the pinch and stretch gestures (moving the fingers farther apart zooms in and moving them closer together zooms out), or by holding the Ctrl key down while scrolling the mouse scroll wheel, or by holding the Ctrl key down (with the Shift key, if no numeric keypad is available) and pressing the plus (+) or minus (-) key. "

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/ap...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8vPpR_70BA


RE: I never used to think...
By Motoman on 2/19/13, Rating: 0
RE: I never used to think...
By chripuck on 2/19/2013 11:31:37 AM , Rating: 5
Good lord man Windows 8 isn't THAT bad. It needs improvement, but it doesn't need a lot. In fact, you can have a Windows 7 experience in Windows 8 by A.) turning of Metro multi-tasking and B.) removing Metro Apps. You then have the Metro start screen which is just a full screen start menu. You can still Pin/Quicklaunch and you have SUPERIOR multi-monitor support.

As for making it easier for corporations to get work done, you clearly don't know about group policy and large scale deployment. Corporations buy hundreds of the same PC, setup an image for it following the principles above and push that image to every PC in the company. Every major and minor IT shop in this country has been doing this for close to 20 years.

Seriously, the Start Menu is different, how closed minded are you?


RE: I never used to think...
By T2k on 2/25/2013 6:57:33 PM , Rating: 1
Seriously, you must be full of shit if you really mean this utter BS you just wrote...

...isn't THAT bad? You mean it's actually WORSE than that, right? There's a reason NOBODY IS BUYING THAT FUCKIN PoS: IT SUCKS. BIG TIME.

Corporations? GPO? WTF are you talking about? What does it have to do with W8?
Why on Earth any company - who are typically at least one step behind the curve - would want to jump in and deal with this broken PoS instead of just 'pushing out their perfectly working W7 images? You're not making the slightest sense, let alone contradicting yourself.

"Closed minded" - are you looking into a mirror or just parroting some BS you read on some stupid MS site?


By Unspoken Thought on 2/20/2013 6:39:56 AM , Rating: 4
On a 1080p monitor I can have access to over 288 programs grouped and categorized however I wish them to be at the touch of a key and mouse scroll.

You are right, I don't see how that is more difficult than going into the Start menu and scrolling through countless folders until I find what I am looking for. It would take me 3 actions from the Metro screen to open up any application I wanted. Ctrl + Mouse scroll, select the group, and click the app. That's it. Or one click if I have it pinned to the left.

Microsoft didn't just slap Metro together in a day. They actually took usage data to determine how efficient the start screen would be over the start menu, particularly in the enterprise environments. From the MSDN Blogs:

quote:
In Windows 8 we assume that there are even more apps (and sites) than the XP/Vista/7 eras and so we needed even more scale. We also wanted to provide an at-a-glance view and a navigation model that requires much less dexterity. By using the full screen, we can now show more apps without the need to scroll or navigate hierarchy. By flattening the hierarchy, we provide a way for you to leverage the iconography of the apps and remove the burden of clicking through folders trying to find an app under its manufacturer’s name. Over time this will also address another common complaint, which is that when renaming, combining, or reorganizing folders (which you might do in order to keep the menu from wrapping) you would lose the ability to uninstall cleanly, and thus subject yourself to a periodic garbage collection of your Start menu to avoid dead links.


http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/refl...

Have a look over at the MSDN blog

quote:
... the current Start menu is primarily used for launching infrequently used apps, while users continue to launch more frequently used apps from the taskbar and Explorer. In fact, 88% of app launches are from outside the Start menu today. Instead, most launches are from the taskbar (41%) and the remaining are split between Explorer and the desktop (47%). So it was clear to us that the Start menu was trending away from being useful and we had an opportunity to redesign it to make it more useful and valuable. We want to be careful in this dialog of spending a lot of energy debating what amounts to a “long tail” usage case.


If your complaint was about learning the hidden UI menus, Metro's inability to to have more than 2 apps open at the same time, desiring more efficient use of space within metro applications, then you might have more merit to your argument. Locating and opening up programs really is a non issue.

Making remarks about fanbois, metrosexual start menus, and facebook users does nothing to support your claims. All it indicates is you have jumped on the MS-hate band wagon without producing any objective criticism.


RE: I never used to think...
By p05esto on 2/21/2013 11:52:16 AM , Rating: 2
Motoman, I love you!


RE: I never used to think...
By deathwombat on 2/19/2013 3:44:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Bah, maybe you or someone you know tried Win8, but obviously never took the time to really learn to use it.


I shouldn't have to take time to really learn it! I've been using Windows since 3.1 and every other upgrade required little to no learning curve. When I first tried Windows 8, I didn't know how to do anything with it!

So here's Microsoft's problem: maybe if I try really hard, I'll learn to use and love Windows 8. But if I'm going to have to struggle through learning a completely new OS experience anyway, why should it be Windows 8 instead of Linux or Mac OS X? I've used Windows all these years because each new version has been as easy to use as the last version. Well, not any more! If it's going to be just as much work to learn a new version of Windows as it would be to learn some other operating system, maybe this is finally the push that people need to switch to something else.


RE: I never used to think...
By chripuck on 2/19/2013 11:35:13 AM , Rating: 3
Seriously man, it's not that difficult. The Metro interface is a full screen start menu and the computer boots to that rather than the desktop.

I agree it needs tweaks, one being adding a start button back, even if to just bring up the Metro UI start screen, but it's really not THAT different.


RE: I never used to think...
By deathwombat on 2/19/2013 2:29:52 PM , Rating: 1
If only the Start Screen was the only change! I downloaded the Windows 8 developer preview and tried it in a VM. It was initially difficult to figure out how programs are organized, and I'm still not sure what keeps program groups together, but it didn't take long to run a few apps. Then I wanted to shut down the computer. How do you do that? It's a basic function, but it's hidden in an obscure menu! I had to just close the VM, the digital equivalent to holding the power button until the @&!&ing OS went away.

The second time I tried I was able to locate the shutdown option and played with a few more apps. Okay, that was fun, now how do I close them? There's no X button to close them, so I Googled it. It seems as though you can't close programs! You can either Alt+F4 or open the task manager and terminate the process. Seriously? You have to force the @!*@ing programs to shut down? I mean, honestly.

Do you not think that any experienced Windows user would screw around with Windows 8 and then say, "I'm going back to Windows 7?" Of course, you could force yourself to use it as your primary operating system until you learn it works, but if I'm going to force myself to learn an unfamiliar operating system, why wouldn't I pick a free Linux distribution? If it's going to be as much as work to learn Windows 8 as it is to learn Linux, but Linux is free and Windows 8 isn't, obviously I'm going to try out Mint or Ubuntu for a few days before I resign myself to paying for Windows 8. I'm far more willing to learn an unfamiliar operating system if it's free. An unfamiliar operating system that I have to pay for? How stupid does Microsoft think I am?


By lexluthermiester on 2/22/2013 2:24:48 AM , Rating: 1
OK genius. Tell us the Win key + command for changing game controller settings. Or how about page[swap] file settings? Perhaps making Windows explorer customizable? Eh? Oh wait that's right... YOU CAN'T. Windows 8 is a cumbersome, unintuitive waste. It is easily MS's biggest failure. And if "Blue" goes down the same way, MS can take a long walk off a short pier.


RE: I never used to think...
By tayb on 2/19/2013 10:22:24 AM , Rating: 5
You can call me a fan boy all you want but you'll find plenty of posts by me that are extremely critical of Microsoft. Below are MY reasons for using Windows 8.

1. Right click in the bottom left corner of the monitor for an amazing context menu with shortcuts to things that are otherwise a pain in the ass to get to. Power options, event viewer, disk manager, device manager, etc. No more pressing the start menu, typing, and clicking/hitting enter.
2. Pin any number of applications I want to the task bar and pin the rest to the start screen for quick access. The start menu can only grow so tall in Windows 7. The start screen does not have a limit to the number of pinned apps.
3. Boot up 2-3 times faster than Windows 7.
4. Upgraded task manager makes managing applications, services, and start-up programs exponentially easier than Windows 7. No more services.msc or msconfig.
5. Pinning applications to specific monitors. Windows 7 requires 3rd party applications to accomplish this and they are NOT free. (If you're okay buying Ultramon, why aren't you okay with free Start8?)
6. Don't like Metro? Don't use it. Either don't use it because you don't have to or don't use it by download a FREE program called Start 8.
7. Windows 8 is faster than Windows 7. Substantially. You would think a site full of "gamers and techies" performance would be a big deal. Apparently not.
8. Ribbon in the explorer menu makes trivial tasks such as copying to a directory, renaming an item, zipping/sharing, etc
9. Storage spaces allows me to consolidate multiple drives and address them as a single drive.
10. Improved file copying
11. File history
12. Improved search. Hit the windows key, start typing, get visual access to any program, application, or file immediately.
13. Hit Windows Key then Ctrl + Tab for a list of every installed application. Launch them, pin to start screen, pin to task bar, or delete. Very convenient.
14. Hyper V.
15. Synced settings across multiple machines. Extremely useful for people who work on a desktop at work and then take a work laptop home with them as well.
16. Alt+F4 for a nice shutdown menu
17. Automatically saved screen grabs when you hit Win+Prnt screen.
18. Snapping a Metro app to a small section on the side of the screen. I use this for my chat program. Just a little sliver on the side.
19. Mount an ISO natively!!!! No more 3rd party apps for something so simple!

And the absolute best feature? Re-install Windows 8 at the click of a button.

Do I miss the start button? No. The start screen is more usable. If I did miss the start button I would go download Start8 for free and bring the start button back.

Do I hate Metro? Not really. I don't prefer it but I don't ever go into the interface unless I am searching for something and in that particular use case I do enjoy the use of it. I can't imagine why anyone on a desktop or laptop would ever honestly use the Metro interface. It doesn't make sense. Square peg in round hole.


RE: I never used to think...
By Motoman on 2/19/13, Rating: 0
RE: I never used to think...
By chripuck on 2/19/2013 11:33:01 AM , Rating: 2
How does it make the machine unusable? You keep spouting this point with no examples. Good lord man, the Metro interface is just a full screen start button.


RE: I never used to think...
By Motoman on 2/19/13, Rating: -1
RE: I never used to think...
By Fritzr on 2/19/2013 7:02:57 PM , Rating: 2
Are you referring to Metro only apps? If so then you are unaware of the fact that using Win7 programs puts you in a Win7 environment. Yes it is missing the Start Menu that is put back by installing Start8 (a FREE application)

There are paid menu replacements also that emulate the Win7 Start menu with a variety of added features.

In Desktop Mode Win8 is simply a much improved Win7. All the keyboard shortcuts of Win7 work (including type search item and cick to run) & all of the WinXP/Win95 shortcuts that Win7 supported are still there...no learning curve for those.

Now if you were doing everything by Start Menu, then simply setup a folder group called Start and put in shortcuts to all your Start Menu items...You then have DIY Start Menu replacement (Win 7 also allows this :) )

Motoman, you are losing the debate by coming across as a spittle spraying fanatic. No I am not criticizing you, just criticizing the manner in which you have chosen to try to convince people that you are right. The manner in which you argue will definitely affect the manner in which people respond. Sound insane and people will assume your argument IS insane and incorrect regardless of actual correctness or sanity.


RE: I never used to think...
By tamalero on 2/20/2013 12:03:51 AM , Rating: 3
the point is.. why the hell people have to SEARCH and FIND this start8 program to get the machine useable?

tell that to people, who are used to work on windows environments and who dont know they could get such programs to fix metro's limitations!!


RE: I never used to think...
By timothyd97402 on 2/23/2013 3:44:05 PM , Rating: 3
I don't know how many posts that defend Windows 8 by saying just go do this and the other thing and then you'll have the functionality you are looking for, or just use this or that key combination and then you'll get to some option that kind of does what you want...

Why can't I just boot straight to the desktop and have a small start menu that is limited to my desktop apps if that is what I want? Why can't I have that option? Because MS wants to sell apps and for that they have to force us to use the Metro GUI. They also want to sell phones and tablets that use the Metro GUI and they need desktop users forcibly "familiarized with Metro to aid them on that front.

I mean everytime you turn around they have whisked you away from the desktop UI and back into the Metro UI. I have no use for the Metro UI. I have yet to meet one "app" that isn't superficial and next to useless. The very concept of two GUIs that one is constantly having to switch between is farcical on its face!

The best point of any GUI is that is INTUITIVE and Windows 8 simply isn't. In their zeal to make it thumb friendly and "clean" in appearance they removed all of the visual cues that make intuitive use possible. A user is forced to learn and memorize a lot in Windows 8. Visual clues jog those memories as well as give hints about where to look for the function you need.

I could go on and on, one last point, Windows 98, XP, Vista, and 7 pretty much worked out of the box with out a lot of user customization necessary. That just isn't the case with 8. How many mouse clicks to get to the desktop Notepad program now? "Oh, but you just pin it here or clip it there" you say...


RE: I never used to think...
By tayb on 2/19/2013 11:32:57 AM , Rating: 2
Very well thought out retort full of detailed responses to the list I presented. You have the makings of a politician. I was particularly convinced by the part where you said (paraphrasing) "Metrosexual interface sucks" and backed up your claim with zero evidence.


RE: I never used to think...
By Motoman on 2/19/2013 12:07:47 PM , Rating: 3
It's infinitely inferior to the Start menu, because there's no possible way to arrange hundreds, or even dozens, of installed programs in a manner that's easy to manage and easy to use.

The Start menu is the optimal form for the arrangement and access to installed programs.

Unless, as I've noted previously, you only use your computer for Farmville and Hotmail, and can get buy with the Fisher-Price UI that Win8 now provides you.

For anyone who actually uses their PC for actual work, and actually expects to be productive with it, the Metro interface does nothing but get in the way. It provides no benefits. There's nothing positive that it does that can't be accomplished with a plain old Windows desktop widget like what's been around since Vista, and by making it impossible to efficiently organize and access average or large numbers of applications, it prevents reasonable usage of the computer.

Period. And if you have managed to convince yourself differently, you are not only in a vast minority, but likely also moderately insane. Because this is, quite simply, self-evident.


RE: I never used to think...
By tayb on 2/19/2013 12:22:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's infinitely inferior to the Start menu, because there's no possible way to arrange hundreds, or even dozens, of installed programs in a manner that's easy to manage and easy to use.


Alphabetical is too challenging for you? Windows Key -> Ctrl + Tab. Or Windows Key -> type anything...

quote:
The Start menu is the optimal form for the arrangement and access to installed programs.


As I previously mentioned and you ignored the start menu has limits on the number of applications. The start screen has no such limitation and the application list is just as it sounds, an alphabetical list of every installed application.

quote:
For anyone who actually uses their PC for actual work, and actually expects to be productive with it, the Metro interface does nothing but get in the way. It provides no benefits. There's nothing positive that it does that can't be accomplished with a plain old Windows desktop widget like what's been around since Vista, and by making it impossible to efficiently organize and access average or large numbers of applications, it prevents reasonable usage of the computer.


Are you allergic to reading? Serious question. Windows 8 actually makes it EASIER to organize and manage a large number of applications. I would be delighted to hear what single screen in Windows 7 allows you to see an entire list of installed apps and manage them. By manage I mean pin them to the task bar, pin them to the start screen, and uninstall them.

quote:
Period. And if you have managed to convince yourself differently, you are not only in a vast minority, but likely also moderately insane. Because this is, quite simply, self-evident.


Once again you've supported your conclusions with literally zero evidence. The "suckiness" of Windows 8 is so self evident that you can't provide use cases to support your conclusions.


RE: I never used to think...
By Motoman on 2/19/2013 1:07:42 PM , Rating: 3
...and this is why you're a fanboi>

quote:
Alphabetical is too challenging for you? Windows Key -> Ctrl + Tab. Or Windows Key -> type anything...


The Start menu is alphabetical. In fact, an alphabetical listing of everything you have installed is optimal - that's what the Start menu is. As for your braindead re-assertion that you can "just type anything you want" - that's why we left DOS, and also, previous Windows versions do the same thing. And why, exactly, should anyone start learning more multi-key-presses to do stuff that was easy before, without such key presses? You've just proved yourself wrong in insisting that Metro makes these things easier.

quote:
As I previously mentioned and you ignored the start menu has limits on the number of applications.

No, no it doesn't. There is no limit to the number of programs and program groups that the Start menu can manage for you - automatically, and in alphabetical order. Have you never used Windows before?

quote:
The start screen has no such limitation

...really? Just how many of your Fisher-Price "tiles" do you think you're going to manage to fit on your screen? As noted many times before, if you only use your PC to do a couple things, then fine. Use your Fisher-Price kindergarten interface and be happy with it. But it is EXTREMELY limited in it's ability to organize and provide access to average or large numbers of installed programs.

quote:
and the application list is just as it sounds, an alphabetical list of every installed application.

...that's what the Start menu is, which is the one and only way to intelligently organize and provide access to all your programs. Putting the Metro UI on top of that does nothing but waste time as you get to the application list.

quote:
Are you allergic to reading? Serious question. Windows 8 actually makes it EASIER to organize and manage a large number of applications. I would be delighted to hear what single screen in Windows 7 allows you to see an entire list of installed apps and manage them. By manage I mean pin them to the task bar, pin them to the start screen, and uninstall them.

OK, so apparently you actually haven't ever used Windows before - because that's what the Start menu does for you. Do you honestly think you've made a point here?

quote:
Once again you've supported your conclusions with literally zero evidence. The "suckiness" of Windows 8 is so self evident that you can't provide use cases to support your conclusions.


It's clear that you're projecting. As can easily be seen, it is you who have provided no support to your assertions. The things you've tried to say are improvements are things Windows has done for years. Without the Fisher-Price UI on top of it, serving no purpose but to slow you down and make you less productive.ve just proved yourself wrong in insisting that Metro makes these things easier.


RE: I never used to think...
By tayb on 2/19/2013 2:53:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The Start menu is alphabetical. In fact, an alphabetical listing of everything you have installed is optimal - that's what the Start menu is. As for your braindead re-assertion that you can "just type anything you want" - that's why we left DOS, and also, previous Windows versions do the same thing. And why, exactly, should anyone start learning more multi-key-presses to do stuff that was easy before, without such key presses? You've just proved yourself wrong in insisting that Metro makes these things easier.


The start menu houses an alphabetical list of folders in which the applications reside.

Windows 7: Mouse to Start/Windows Key -> Mouse to All Programs -> Click on the application folder -> Click on application.
Windows 8: Press Windows Key + C (or other alternatives) -> Click on application you want

Fewer clicks + less time traveling between mouse and keyboard = maximum efficiency.

I love how you believe an opinion can be proved wrong.

quote:
No, no it doesn't. There is no limit to the number of programs and program groups that the Start menu can manage for you - automatically, and in alphabetical order. Have you never used Windows before?


The start menu allows you to pin programs for quick access. This pinned list is limited. In Windows 8 the All Programs + Pinned List has been consolidated into one section.

quote:
..really? Just how many of your Fisher-Price "tiles" do you think you're going to manage to fit on your screen? As noted many times before, if you only use your PC to do a couple things, then fine. Use your Fisher-Price kindergarten interface and be happy with it. But it is EXTREMELY limited in it's ability to organize and provide access to average or large numbers of installed programs.


Right now across three monitors I have 2 instances of Visual Studio 2012, 2 instances of SQLServer 2012, 2 chrome windows open, 1 Firefox window open, 1 Outlook, 2 word documents, 1 Revolution Analytics, 1 RStudio, 1 Control Panel, and 1 chat program. I find it easier to manage all of this in Windows 8 than I did in Windows 7. I find it easier to FIND these things in Windows 8 than I did in Windows 7. If I didn't I wouldn't have upgraded. If people would check their bias at the door and try to actually LEARN how to use Windows 8 more people would come to the same conclusion.

quote:
...that's what the Start menu is, which is the one and only way to intelligently organize and provide access to all your programs. Putting the Metro UI on top of that does nothing but waste time as you get to the application list.


Unless, of course, there was another way which required fewer clicks and greater control over the programs.

quote:
OK, so apparently you actually haven't ever used Windows before - because that's what the Start menu does for you. Do you honestly think you've made a point here?


No, it does not. It allows you to manage folders in which the applications reside. It is not nearly as easy to do any of the functions I mentioned, especially uninstall. This is especially true if you are allergic to typing or hate keyboard shortcuts. Even in Windows 7 typing the application name was faster than going through All Programs.

quote:
It's clear that you're projecting. As can easily be seen, it is you who have provided no support to your assertions. The things you've tried to say are improvements are things Windows has done for years. Without the Fisher-Price UI on top of it, serving no purpose but to slow you down and make you less productive.ve just proved yourself wrong in insisting that Metro makes these things easier.


So very very ironic.

Besides, if you hate the start screen go download Start8. It's free. Just another point you've neglected to respond to. You're good at that.


RE: I never used to think...
By Motoman on 2/19/2013 4:33:33 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Windows 7: Mouse to Start/Windows Key -> Mouse to All Programs -> Click on the application folder -> Click on application. Windows 8: Press Windows Key + C (or other alternatives) -> Click on application you want


Or, in Win7, if you're into hitting buttons on your keyboard, hit the Windows button there and click on the app you want. Yay. Same thing. Oh, except it's just the Windows key, not Windows + C or whatever else you're spewing. Which, by the way, is fewer clicks if that's your thing.

quote:
The start menu allows you to pin programs for quick access. This pinned list is limited. In Windows 8 the All Programs + Pinned List has been consolidated into one section.

You say that like it's a good thing. If they're consolidated into one section, then there's no point in having a "pinned" list. But your statement wasn't about pinning anyway - it was about the "limitation of the Start menu" - and as has been clearly demonstrated, there is no limitation to the Start menu.

As for having to deal with all the tiles, you start off with:
quote:
Right now across three monitors...

And you can stop right there. Because nothing else you say has any value. If your assertion is going to be that Win8 is just fine so long as you have 3 monitors hooked up, then you just go right on and try that. Nobody's going to go out and buy more monitors to try to deal with this POS of a children's GUI.

quote:
Unless, of course, there was another way which required fewer clicks and greater control over the programs.

The Start menu is infinitely more capable to manage, organize, and provide access to your programs - and the more programs you have, the more that is true. Unless, of course, you actually think buying infinite numbers of monitors is a rational thing to do...

quote:
No, it does not. It allows you to manage folders in which the applications reside. It is not nearly as easy to do any of the functions I mentioned, especially uninstall. This is especially true if you are allergic to typing or hate keyboard shortcuts. Even in Windows 7 typing the application name was faster than going through All Programs.

Wow, really? Firstly, most applications include an uninstall feature right there in their folder. Secondly, as you seem to be so hip on, if you can't manage to bring yourself to click the Control Panel link, you can always type "uninstall" and select that option from the list presented you to get the full list of things you can uninstall. Naturally, my point is that a GUI is defeated if you have to resort to typing things...especially since that requires that you remove your hand from your mouse. And frankly, if you find yourself uninstalling things *so often* that you think that "feature" is saving you any time, you probably need to rethink WTF you're doing with your computer.

quote:
So very very ironic. Besides, if you hate the start screen go download Start8. It's free. Just another point you've neglected to respond to. You're good at that.


You claim my actions are ironic, yet I've proven indisputably that you're wrong. You're simply not residing in reality. As for Start8 - yes, I know it's free. But I'm not an Apple user - it's not my job to QA and fix sh1tty software. If MS wants to put a GUI designed for toddlers on their latest OS, that's fine - but I'm not going to pay money for and then have to fix it. If they want my money, they can make it useful out of the box.


RE: I never used to think...
By Fritzr on 2/19/2013 7:07:35 PM , Rating: 3
Keep going please ... your responses are making me like Win8 better with each new post :LOL:


RE: I never used to think...
By tamalero on 2/20/2013 12:06:11 AM , Rating: 2
And, confirmed for troll and/or hardcore fanboy.


RE: I never used to think...
By MrBungle123 on 2/20/2013 10:54:14 AM , Rating: 1
Windows 8 fans = people that like to jerk off to product training manuals. They get off on finding new ways to do things just because they can... not because they are acutally better but because they can.

Metro exists because MS wants to push their app store and because if MS is out of ideas standard procedure is to move every thing around in the interface and slap a new version number on it.


RE: I never used to think...
By AnemicCrayon on 2/24/2013 5:33:43 AM , Rating: 1
Tayb, why do you keep asserting that Start8 is free? It is a 30 day trial after which you have to pay $4.99. If you cannot get this very simple fact straight how can anything else you're saying be considered.


RE: I never used to think...
By Gurthang on 2/21/2013 8:09:39 AM , Rating: 2
I would categorize myself as ambivilant about "Metro" and loving many of the Windows 8 improvements in the OS to the desktop and kernal spaces.

It is far from perfect but I personally think the Metro interface could be saved maybe treating the current start screen as more of a launchpad/info pane with some AI added similar to Google Now And give more pane sizes for greater info depth as well as ways to agegrate data from panes or other sources into new smart panes as well as a sorting mechinism that floats important or updates data panes up higher. And second they need a replacement for the start menu something better than ye ole start that makes organizing and accessing our work easier.


Not holding my breath....
By jnemesh on 2/18/2013 2:23:56 PM , Rating: 5
Until they fix the core problem with Windows 8, the shift to closed ecosystems and locked down hardware, any cosmetic fixes will be worthless. I am not holding my breath for a "fixed" Windows. At this point, ESPECIALLY considering what they are doing with Office 2013, it is painfully obvious that Microsoft is heading downhill, FAST! I will be migrating over to Linux and truly open platforms. I am sure others will follow, sooner or later, depending on how attached they are to Microsoft's dying proprietary systems.




RE: Not holding my breath....
By damianrobertjones on 2/18/2013 3:22:07 PM , Rating: 2
What are you talking about?

Windows 8, as far as I can see, is still perfectly open as usual.

Steam have a store, EA has a store, Ubuntu has a store, Apple has a store, Android has a store so heck... MS has a store! I'm glad that they do!


RE: Not holding my breath....
By Fritzr on 2/19/2013 7:15:00 PM , Rating: 2
The difference is that MS has followed Apple's lead and the only source of Metro software is the MS Appstore. This will change when the Win version of jailbreak & unauthorized appstores finally appear.

Win8 does support generally distributed Win7 apps for Win8 desktop, but for Win8 RT Microsoft is the only source of legal software.

Having a store full of curated software is nice. Requiring that no software be installed that Microsoft has not pre-approved is bad.

Yes, you can buy the SDK and compile apps for personal use, but you are then unable to share them with anyone else who does not have the ability to recompile and generate a key.

Note: This restriction is only on Metro Mode, but becomes a serious for Win8 RT owners.


RE: Not holding my breath....
By GotThumbs on 2/18/2013 3:28:35 PM , Rating: 3
While I agree, I can see why MS has taken this approach. Apple has for years, run a closed ecosystem and they currently have Billions in the bank and millions of blind followers. Problem is that many of us have avoided anything to do with Apple specifically because of Apples level of control.

Free thinkers are not anxious to give up their freedoms and I believe MS will have less takers for the new OS and they will simply stick with W7.

Personally I think they are going to alienate those of us who are clearly not blind followers and can easily load a linux OS with very little pause.


RE: Not holding my breath....
By Ramstark on 2/18/13, Rating: 0
RE: Not holding my breath....
By ET on 2/19/2013 6:44:12 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
OMG, and I thought DT was all about people who actually know what they talk about...

How did you get that idea? :)

Any post which has anything to do with Windows 8, on any site, will get a large number of irrational haters. It's true for a lot of other subjects (Apple comes to mind) but the Windows 8 flame is just so incredibly effective in drawing the hater moths.


By TakinYourPoints on 2/18/2013 6:19:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple has for years, run a closed ecosystem


On mobile devices, not the desktop. The store is a recent option but there is nothing to keep one from installing whatever they'd like in OS X.

I believe it will remain the same with Windows, even though their push for a fullscreen "mobile" style UI is much more aggressive than what Apple is doing with OS X. At worst Microsoft will allow for the whitelisting of registered developers, but again I don't think they'll restrict application installation anytime soon.


Much work to be done.
By epobirs on 2/18/2013 3:52:32 PM , Rating: 2
I'm glad they aren't standing still on the UI. There is a lot of work to be done to make it more useful. Right off the bat, there needs to be folders of some sort on the start screen. The XP and earlier Start menu was changed with Vista to not eat up the whole screen if you have a lot of stuff installed. Just having the scroll bar and the search function in there was a huge improvement.

The start screen gets clunky when you get a lot of stuff installed. I want a simple means to tuck away stuff I'm not using. For example, I don't need to see the games most of the time. I want a folder with the smarts behind so that a new game downloaded from the Store goes in there automatically. The metadata is already there and it should be applicable much like custom rules in an email app for sorting incoming messages.

The folders should have some options such as sizing and how they handle the live tile operations.

Snapping apps should have more options, such as half-screen, and multiple monitor users (who are very unlikely to be running off battery) need a lot more support. You should be able to have as many full screen Metro apps as you have monitors. A different hotspot mechanism also needs to be a selectable option for multiple display systems.

I like Windows 8 but it is plainly just the starting point of new UI features and should be short-lived in its current form. Hopefully, most or all of the Blue features will be available as free or very low-cost updates to Windows 8, like a Service Pack back in the days when they brought new features.




RE: Much work to be done.
By Wererat on 2/19/2013 11:17:47 AM , Rating: 2
>The start screen gets clunky when you get a lot of stuff installed. I want a simple means to tuck away stuff I'm not using.

Take your hierarchical grouping of virtual links (folder full of shortcuts, aka program list from start button) and pin IT to the Windows 8 start menu. Label it "Start" and put it somewhere near the bottom left of your start menu.

In short, tuck them away exactly the same way you did in Win7.

All that said, good on MS for realizing not everyone's thrilled with the UI and moving quickly to tackle those concerns.


RE: Much work to be done.
By Wererat on 2/19/2013 11:23:37 AM , Rating: 2
Option 2: *don't* organize all these apps. Instead, start relying on the search bit that is available on the right side (think it's called a 'charm.').

Snagging that and typing a few letters from your desired application finds it for you. I find this (one mouse-flick, one click, two or three keystrokes and a click) much faster than clicking through the several sub-menus of the old start button hierarchy.


RE: Much work to be done.
By chripuck on 2/19/2013 11:37:52 AM , Rating: 2
I'm actually fairly happy with Windows 8, but searching for most anything is stupid. I work with dozens of documents a day and utilize 20+ applications. I don't remember their exact names (outside of VS, Office Suite and Management Studio) so I rely on the standard Start Menu to find them.

I shouldn't HAVE to memorize my programs/documents to find and open them.


RE: Much work to be done.
By Wererat on 2/19/2013 1:57:44 PM , Rating: 3
If you work with dozens of documents daily, I hope you've established at least a personal if not a organizational naming convention, or you're not going to find anything with or without a start menu.

Again, if you regularly use so many apps that you need a tree to keep track of them, then use one (first suggestion). The start menu isn't anything more than that.

Personally I have no trouble remembering "visual studio" or "sqlplus" or "toad" or even "vi" (mostly kidding, maybe).

For example, let's take something really trivial, like the windows calculator app. In Win7 it's Start Menu, Programs, Accessories, sometimes click on the arrow to reveal less-used choices, then Calculator.

In Win8 it's mouse-swipe, click, type 'cal' and click. Somewhere else on the thread I think I caught a reference that the windows key itself starts the search; so that'd be windows key, 'cal' and click or enter. Four keystrokes.

Still, if you have (like one poster on a prior thread) 150+ apps you have categorized in your own way, great. Copy that start menu folder link into something on your desktop, taskbar, OR start page, and it'll work just like 7/XP/Vista/9x. It's not like the functionality went away, it just stopped being the default behavior of the windows key.


blue?
By synapse46 on 2/18/2013 2:30:59 PM , Rating: 2
Why windows "blue"? It keeps making me think of bsod.




RE: blue?
By retrospooty on 2/18/2013 4:50:12 PM , Rating: 2
LOL... Someone in MS's marketing is probably too young to remember that happening.


RE: blue?
By johnsmith9875 on 2/21/2013 12:13:00 PM , Rating: 2
The only thing hip and trendy about Microsoft are its names for products, "Blue", "Surface", "Kin", "Metro", "Zune"


Android on Win8 desktop
By paulpod on 2/18/2013 6:55:36 PM , Rating: 2
Now that there is software to run Android apps in a Windows desktop window I hope MS is shamed into providing the same functionality in Blue.

If I am running on a single monitor desktop, especially one with no touch input, there should NEVER be a case where the Metro function takes over the whole screen. Just open a properly sized, moveable, and re-sizeable window. DUH!!!




RE: Android on Win8 desktop
By Norseman4 on 2/18/2013 7:35:21 PM , Rating: 2
Launched by a small round icon in the bottom left hand corner (with the window's logo) natch.

Dual/multi-screen, I don't know, I only have 8 on a touch-enabled laptop that I had to purchase. I should hook up one of my PC displays to start experimenting with Win8-DS to see if a DS setup with keyboard/mouse (only) is viable for me at home.


RE: Android on Win8 desktop
By chripuck on 2/19/2013 11:39:54 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed, one thing that needs to change. Full screen Metro apps are stupid.


Just Once....
By ReverendDC on 2/18/2013 6:22:43 PM , Rating: 3
...I would love to see people vote with their wallets. Every time an article comes up about Windows 8, some people simply HAVE to complain about it.

A quick hint: if you don't like it, don't buy it and don't use it. Why some people think that they have to convince others that something is great or something is horrid is beyond me.

For the grand majority of users, command line, the ability to put a nyam cat in the corner of every screen, and the ability to make your system grow legs and walk to the store for you are not relevant. Most people simply want web browsing, email, and light gaming, along with some streaming when appropriate. What about Win8 screams "horrible" when looking at it in this light?

I'll repeat: if you don't like it, don't use it. If you are a developer, you generally have your choice of which system you wish to run. You can remember /sudo. You can find SourceForge. Go to Linux. The other 1% will join you in saying how "everyone is going to switch to Linux because Microsoft <insert complaint here>."

The reason why 90%+ PCs STILL run Windows is because it is the best at what it does. The market doesn't have fanbois. The market has money, and the money has consistently been sunk into Windows by groups large and small. There are multiple industries that were created JUST TO MAKE MACHINES THAT WINDOWS RUNS ON. It is what it is. Use what you like. That doesn't mean that everyone else is an idiot for disagreeing with your opinion.

Thanks for your time.




RE: Just Once....
By HelloWorld123 on 2/19/2013 1:43:28 AM , Rating: 2
It is not that simple. People are not happy with Microsoft because they have vested interested in the success of the MS OS.

Time investment - many people and companies have been using this OS for a long time and it is a big pain to readjust (if possible at all) your computing through another platform.

Software investment - many people and companies have invested in software that they want to keep using with the next Windows iteration. By introducing an obtuse OS/ OS UI which is hard to use Microsoft effectively prevents these people to use their software investment.

Gaming - as there is no other OS as targeted for gaming as Windows, it is normal for people to get angry when their gaming platform gets destroyed. And where can you go from Windows for gaming?

Developers - there are many Microsoft devs that feel betrayed by the inconsistent MS vision about their dev platform. There is a whole software industry based on developing for the MS ecosystem. These people care about how the MS OS moves forward.

So now you might understand why people are pissed off at MS for their stupid moves. For once! :)

Thanks for your time!


Win 7? Win 8?
By croc on 2/19/2013 5:02:24 AM , Rating: 2
This same argument was raging forth about six years ago, XP vs Vista. Vista was a far better OS than XP. Vista lost. Any bets on who wins this time?




RE: Win 7? Win 8?
By tamalero on 2/22/2013 5:20:39 AM , Rating: 2
Vista was a total turd when it got out.
extremely intrusive and buggy.
hence why windows 7 obliterated Vista.


"Lets cut to the chase"
By Pigbristle on 2/25/2013 5:14:58 AM , Rating: 2
Two reasons Windows 8 fails....

1. Win8 is trying to be two things, Touch-screen/Desktop
(It is impossible to to make a single product better at two things rather then one) the guy who called it Metrosexual hit the nail on the head ;o)

2. Believe it or not, it has been proven that a lot of people do not like choice, it just confuses them & puts them off buying. This is why Apple have done so well with the iphone, it's both simple (locked down) to use & pretty much the only phone (less choice) apple do.

Microsoft have seen Apples success & are trying copy it with Windows 8 (metro=simple , More locked down= less choice)

But for me, this is where Microsoft have gone wrong......

People who bought into Apple didn't know anything else, so Apples product was great, simple & easy to use.

But Microsoft customers have been using their product for years, they are use to the 'openness/multi-choice windows have given them. So when windows 8 appears on the scene, it's like they have 'locked us out of the options & choices' we once had.




RE: "Lets cut to the chase"
By Pigbristle on 2/25/2013 5:39:05 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry about the multi post, (I was looking to see my post at the bottom of the forums, which I now realise was a mistake) If anybody would kindly tell me how to delete them, that'd be great!


Rich Graphical [Metro] GUI ...
By Norseman4 on 2/18/2013 3:40:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
... the rich graphical GUI formerly known as "Metro" ...


I had to laugh. I tried not to, but the laughter just took me by surprise. Just because the Metro UI uses large pictures instead of text doesn't make it graphically rich ... just makes it easier for people who can't read.

My laptop is Win8, while my home machines are 7 and I like 7 better. (Then again, it could be that I have a pair of 24" 16x10 monitors on one rig, and a 46" tv on the other, while the laptop is 14", though touch enabled.)




I have 3 30" monitors
By BifurcatedBoat on 2/22/2013 7:33:18 PM , Rating: 2
so just going to the Start screen is like turning the flicking the lights on and off in the room.

It's not that Windows 8 is impossible to use, it's just that it's a usability downgrade, and what do I want a downgrade for?




"Lets cut to the chase"
By Pigbristle on 2/25/2013 5:11:18 AM , Rating: 2
Two reasons Windows 8 fails....

1. Win8 is trying to be two things, Touch-screen/Desktop
(It is impossible to to make a single product better at two things rather then one) the guy who called it Metrosexual hit the nail on the head ;o)

2. Believe it or not, it has been proven that a lot of people do not like choice, it just confuses them & puts them off buying. This is why Apple have done so well with the iphone, it's both simple (locked down) to use & pretty much the only phone (less choice) apple do.

Microsoft have seen Apples success & are trying copy it with Windows 8 (metro=simple , More locked down= less choice)

But for me, this is where Microsoft have gone wrong......

People who bought into Apple didn't know anything else, so Apples product was great, simple & easy to use.

But Microsoft customers have been using their product for years, they are use to the 'openness/muti-choice windows have given them. So when windows 8 appears on the scene, it's like they have 'locked us out of the options & choices' we once had.




"Lets cut to the chase"
By Pigbristle on 2/25/2013 5:12:58 AM , Rating: 2
Two reasons Windows 8 fails....

1. Win8 is trying to be two things, Touch-screen/Desktop
(It is impossible to to make a single product better at two things rather then one) the guy who called it Metrosexual hit the nail on the head ;o)

2. Believe it or not, it has been proven that a lot of people do not like choice, it just confuses them & puts them off buying. This is why Apple have done so well with the iphone, it's both simple (locked down) to use & pretty much the only phone (less choice) apple do.

Microsoft have seen Apples success & are trying copy it with Windows 8 (metro=simple , More locked down= less choice)

But for me, this is where Microsoft have gone wrong......

People who bought into Apple didn't know anything else, so Apples product was great, simple & easy to use.

But Microsoft customers have been using their product for years, they are use to the 'openness/muti-choice windows have given them. So when windows 8 appears on the scene, it's like they have 'locked us out of the options & choices' we once had.




"Lets cut to the chase"
By Pigbristle on 2/25/2013 5:13:30 AM , Rating: 2
Two reasons Windows 8 fails....

1. Win8 is trying to be two things, Touch-screen/Desktop
(It is impossible to to make a single product better at two things rather then one) the guy who called it Metrosexual hit the nail on the head ;o)

2. Believe it or not, it has been proven that a lot of people do not like choice, it just confuses them & puts them off buying. This is why Apple have done so well with the iphone, it's both simple (locked down) to use & pretty much the only phone (less choice) apple do.

Microsoft have seen Apples success & are trying copy it with Windows 8 (metro=simple , More locked down= less choice)

But for me, this is where Microsoft have gone wrong......

People who bought into Apple didn't know anything else, so Apples product was great, simple & easy to use.

But Microsoft customers have been using their product for years, they are use to the 'openness/mutichoice windows have given them. So when windows 8 appears on the scene, it's like they have 'locked us out of the options & choices' we once had.




"Lets cut to the chase"
By Pigbristle on 2/25/2013 5:14:29 AM , Rating: 2
Two reasons Windows 8 fails....

1. Win8 is trying to be two things, Touch-screen/Desktop
(It is impossible to to make a single product better at two things rather then one) the guy who called it Metrosexual hit the nail on the head ;o)

2. Believe it or not, it has been proven that a lot of people do not like choice, it just confuses them & puts them off buying. This is why Apple have done so well with the iphone, it's both simple (locked down) to use & pretty much the only phone (less choice) apple do.

Microsoft have seen Apples success & are trying copy it with Windows 8 (metro=simple , More locked down= less choice)

But for me, this is where Microsoft have gone wrong......

People who bought into Apple didn't know anything else, so Apples product was great, simple & easy to use.

But Microsoft customers have been using their product for years, they are use to the 'openness/multi-choice windows have given them. So when windows 8 appears on the scene, it's like they have 'locked us out of the options & choices' we once had.




Really?
By jcourtes on 2/25/2013 7:21:44 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 is a game changer
Microsoft has effectively embraced touch as the 3rd human interface along-side the keyboard and mouse. I could see this the first time I used the Windows 8 start menu. It is obvious that Microsoft saw touch coming, and prepared accordingly. Windows 8 is a bridge OS, in that it is combining touch with traditional inputs into 1 seamless OS.
I have a Surface RT, as well as run Win 8 on my main machine at home, and have a win 8 laptop with touch. Anyone who has any common sense, and has spent some decent time with the OS in different contexts, cannot come out of it thinking any differently than me. That is, unless they are some type of Mac fanboy/girl. Haters gonna hate. (Sorry you guys have been left in the dust by MS - but that's your own fault for buying into the Apple ecosystem - btw, enjoy the 50$ dongles Apple forces upon you)

Tata.




Win8
By flexy on 2/20/2013 8:47:01 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Once you get [...] over the hate for the new UI, its OK.


Why should I install a new OS that requires to "get over the hate" so it's "ok" at some point? A new OS should be something good and not something annoying I need to get "used to" first. How would you want to "sell me" this, in particular as a desktop user? Win8: Fail




Will it be as ugly as XP?
By johnsmith9875 on 2/19/13, Rating: 0
Brace yourselves....
By tayb on 2/18/13, Rating: -1
RE: Brace yourselves....
By SAN-Man on 2/18/2013 2:24:21 PM , Rating: 4
I actually use my PC to work every day. At this moment I have 17 windows open across three monitors. My quick launch menu has 15 applications in it. My star menu is used quite a bit. Pinning and grouping applications is pointless and slow. Metro is equally pointless and slow. My task menu has 10 applications currently listed. I use/click them all.

I have a lot going on in my job. I need a desktop environment which works for me. Metro just doesn't. I don't want to spend time hacking my corporate PC to make it function like Windows 7 does flawlessly. That's unacceptable.

Microsoft better recognize. I don't have time and don't care to be part of their Metro experiment or their attempt to break into the mobile market.

I'll stick with Windows 7 for the foreseeable future.

He Microsoft, want to get REAL scared? I'm a corporate user and have been since the 90s. I have Linux Mint 14 with Cinnamon running as a VM. I F*CKING LOVE IT. YOU HEAR ME? IT'S AWESOME. It's the best desktop environment I have used to actually work 8-10 hours a day (real work) outside of Windows 7. I could actually use it right now as a replacement and it's FREE. You better wake up MS.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By Ammohunt on 2/18/2013 2:51:52 PM , Rating: 3
In the past as a mixed system Windows/Unix/Linux SA i used Linux running Gnome to manage the entire enterprise environment its just way more efficient. In my current job my company issued Windows machine gathers dust while the real work gets done on Fedora/Gnome 3.0(which is an awesome UI) laptop. Point being there are much better alternatives to workstations in the enterprise than Windows and Microsoft would be smart to pay attention. At home i am still stuck with windows only for gaming.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/18/2013 6:23:24 PM , Rating: 3
Same, Windows is basically a Steam launcher for me at this point. There are several other superior options for desktop UIs.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By damianrobertjones on 2/19/2013 8:01:57 AM , Rating: 1
Other than Windows 7 or possibly XP I cannot think of even one other OS that is superior to Windows 8.

Not one. None. Zero.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By sguy on 2/18/2013 3:12:42 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly I'm tired of people complaining about the metro UI. you say that you have 10 applications in your start menu? great! post those ten applications in the metro UI! my point is that if you don't like the metro UI at worst its a glorified start menu. If that's all you want it to be that's all it is. Everything apart from that is better. Its faster, its more lightweight than even windows 7, its more secure, and if you think about the potential the metro UI is there to unify the PC, the tablet, and the phone. It makes sense! I use windows 8 and I spend probably ninety eight percent of my time in the desktop I don't miss the start at all.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By damianrobertjones on 2/18/2013 3:20:29 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. I'm the same and I use multiple VMS/RDC through the day and have ZERO issue with the Modern UI. I'm pretty much working as I did before with the added bonus of finally using the damn keyboard to get at applications I seldom used before.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By SAN-Man on 2/18/2013 3:22:10 PM , Rating: 2
I said I had 10 apps in my task menu... my start menu has far more.

Faster and lightweight? Who cares? I have a quad core desktop with 16GB and an SSD. Windows 7 is lighting fast.

I used Windows 8 for a solid 30 days. That's more than enough time.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By Newspapercrane on 2/18/2013 6:03:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Faster and lightweight? Who cares?

This was the part where you lost all of my respect.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By p05esto on 2/18/2013 8:30:28 PM , Rating: 5
His point and mine alike is that my PC is so fast already with Win7 (high end everything) that I can't imagine it being any faster. Every command I do is instant, I'm the slow one, not my PC. My PC boots in about 10 seconds. So if Win8 is a micro-second faster somwhere I also don't care at all. It's all about the UI.

Anyone run Rainmeter and all of the customizations that can do? It's pretty cool and I always thought could be the future of the desktop. It's like an interactive and real-time updating desktop tailored to you. Like the MS live tiles, but only about a 1000 times better.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By StevoLincolnite on 2/18/2013 9:24:17 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Faster and lightweight? Who cares? I have a quad core desktop with 16GB and an SSD. Windows 7 is lighting fast.


On my Intel Atom tablet? With Windows 8 it boots and becomes usable so much faster and uses less battery.

On my Desktop with a Core i7 3930K @ 4.8ghz, 2x SSD's in Raid 0, 32Gb of ram the performance difference between Windows 7 and 8 is non-existent from a perceived performance difference.

But stating that no-one cares is ludicrous, not everyone is running a high-powered Desktop, Netbooks, Laptops with 5400rpm HDD's and Atom Tablets benefit greatly from the performance improvements Windows 8 offers.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By tng on 2/18/2013 5:39:21 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
...the metro UI is there to unify the PC, the tablet, and the phone. It makes sense!
Fast only goes so far, and as for unified PC/Tablet/Phone, who cares? I refuse to use a phone as a mobile process platform and a tablet does not have enough function as a phone or a PC to be worth the time.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/18/2013 6:15:04 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
the potential the metro UI is there to unify the PC, the tablet, and the phone. It makes sense!


Fullscreen interfaces make sense with small tablet and phone displays. They generally do not make sense with large desktop and laptop displays. This is the fundamental problem here.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By JPForums on 2/19/2013 12:38:52 PM , Rating: 4
Also, note the difference in catering to low precision (fat fingers) and high precision (mouse, trackball, etc.) pointing devices.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By timothyd97402 on 2/19/2013 2:06:42 PM , Rating: 2
Bottom line it is all about choice. Many of us have no use for the non-windowing Metro UI. Many of us quite like Aero. A lot us like and use the Start Menu. Why can't their be choice? Methinks it is all about Microsoft trying to deprecate the desktop and desktop programs altogether, all the better to collect their slice of app sales revenue through their app store. The other reason is to force the public to see and use Metro, so as to sell more phones and tablets, that will then look more familiar than the competition's products.

Microsoft could have preserved choice very easily with an option to default to the legacy desktop environment perhaps with a Metro sidebar that could also be disabled if we so wished. That they chose not to do so was purely for sales & marketing reasons.

You should quit complaining about users who have bona fide concerns, needs and desires.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By damianrobertjones on 2/18/2013 3:18:57 PM , Rating: 1
What you've just described can still be done in EXACTLY the same way with Windows 8. Go on then, tell me, how long did you use WIndows 8 for?


RE: Brace yourselves....
By SAN-Man on 2/18/13, Rating: 0
RE: Brace yourselves....
By ArcsinZ on 2/18/13, Rating: 0
RE: Brace yourselves....
By SAN-Man on 2/18/13, Rating: 0
RE: Brace yourselves....
By mcnabney on 2/18/2013 6:19:16 PM , Rating: 2
There are only two anchors for the Windows PC

DirectX games and MS Office

If you can resolve those two issues there is really no reason to stick with MS. The added cost and the burden of security just aren't worth it if you don't need those two things.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By JPForums on 2/19/2013 1:22:11 PM , Rating: 2
I was actually mostly in agreement until you made this statement:
quote:
And by the way, you are joking yourself if you think Linux will be mainstream any time soon. Sorry, but to do anything with Linux you have to learn and use the terminal at some point. Talk about taking a time warp back 20 years.
Really shows how well you've kept up with linux. I haven't had to use the terminal since 2010 when I switched to Ubuntu. I probably didn't have to before then, but I was using RHEL until the support ran out. I'm currently Giving Linux Mint a whirl (don't like unity) and it seems to have equal dependence on the terminal (that is to say none).

Addressing the original point, I like the Windows 7 UI better on the desktop. It looks and feels better in my opinion given that it was designed around a high precision pointing device. It may take more clicks to get somewhere, but pointing and clicking several times often takes less time than scrolling through the start screen to find the program of interest in Win8. However, I like the underlying system of Windows 8 better. The task manager and file transfer applets are significantly improved to name a few. Win8 is faster Win7 and this is even noticeable on an i7-3960X with 64GB quad channel ram, a Quadro 5000, and a Samsung 830 SSD if you run something sufficiently intense. Having a bazillion applications open simultaneously isn't the best way to show the performance differences. Simply trying to do normal tasks like checking e-mail, doing web searches, or modifying spreadsheets can show the difference when you have a single intense application running at the same time.

That said, I don't think people are really arguing that the underlying system isn't better than Windows 7. They are arguing that it isn't enough better to justify putting up with the UI. I can go through the steps of setting up the Windows 8 UI to be equally good (maybe even slightly better) for my purposes. However, that is a lot of work that I didn't have to do with Windows 7. Win7 sets things more to my liking by default. I am using both on a regular basis and see strengths to both, but I firmly believe that giving Windows 8 the option to boot to desktop and display the start screen in list mode (like Windows Phone) would go a long way towards improving the situation on the desktop (or just leave the old start menu intact).


RE: Brace yourselves....
By Fritzr on 2/19/2013 7:31:53 PM , Rating: 2
Install Start 8...Do NOT install any Metro Apps and enjoy Win8 enhancements with a Win7 experience :P

Yes you do lose Aeroglass and a few other performance sapping "enhancements" that Microsoft decided did not have enough user interest to justify continued support. (Aero itself was a theme pack that is or will soon be available from third parties, though Aeroglass may remain missing due to OS non-support)


RE: Brace yourselves....
By ArcsinZ on 2/21/2013 3:58:06 PM , Rating: 2
I just downloaded Mint 14 (I used to use Fedora as my desktop, so I'm not ignorant to Linux).
First thing I have to do for my job is install Java for remote management of Intel servers. Here are the instructions:
http://java.com/en/download/help/linux_install.xml
Notice they want you to use the terminal to install it, since the RPM is 32bit only.

Next thing I always like to do is install Tux Racer. Best PC game, bar none. Only way to do it is to use the terminal to create a package.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that Linux is not for the faint of heart. It works great for a lot of things, just not for average users. You have to be a geek, or at the least want to learn about computers, in order to use it. Windows and OSX are not that way.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By tayb on 2/18/2013 3:22:49 PM , Rating: 2
Posts like these are what lead me to believe that most of the "haters" have never actually tried to use Windows 8 for more than a few moments.

quote:
I actually use my PC to work every day. At this moment I have 17 windows open across three monitors. My quick launch menu has 15 applications in it. My star menu is used quite a bit. Pinning and grouping applications is pointless and slow. Metro is equally pointless and slow. My task menu has 10 applications currently listed. I use/click them all.


Windows 8 handles this type of multi-task/multi-application work much better than Windows 7. In Windows 7 you are limited in the number of applications you can pin to the start menu for quick access. In the Windows 8 start screen no such limitation exists. In Windows 7 you must download and manage applications to get the task bar on every screen. In Windows 8 this is no longer an issue.

My quick launch bar has 21 applications on it. My start screen has 16 more. On 3 screens. If I was stuck using Windows 7 I would have to go through the start menu to all programs. No thanks.

If I want to see what services are running I don't need to type 'services' into the start menu. I just open the task manager. If I want to see what applications load at start up I just open the task manager. No more msconfig.

quote:
I have a lot going on in my job. I need a desktop environment which works for me. Metro just doesn't. I don't want to spend time hacking my corporate PC to make it function like Windows 7 does flawlessly. That's unacceptable.


Metro isn't a desktop environment... The desktop is alive and well in Windows 8.

Start screen = full screen start menu. Once you get over that shocking realization you can focus on the actual enhancements to Windows 8... and there are many.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By tayb on 2/18/13, Rating: 0
RE: Brace yourselves....
By SAN-Man on 2/18/13, Rating: 0
RE: Brace yourselves....
By tayb on 2/18/13, Rating: -1
RE: Brace yourselves....
By SAN-Man on 2/18/2013 6:20:03 PM , Rating: 2
But somehow you don't? Odd.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By tayb on 2/19/2013 10:23:59 AM , Rating: 2
Step 1: Post some complaints
Step 2: Ignore response
Step 3: Ignore second response
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit


RE: Brace yourselves....
By nikon133 on 2/18/2013 4:15:41 PM , Rating: 2
Perfect post, much as I am concerned.

I would only add beautiful right-click admin menu in lower-left corner. Genius.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By Murst on 2/18/2013 3:52:56 PM , Rating: 2
I have the exact opposite experience with Windows 8. I switched to Win8 because it actually has proper multi-monitor support, so that when I have many applications open at the same time, they are actually manageable. This wasn't really possible in Win7, but in Win8 you can keep what is happening on each monitor and having the taskbar to match it. I can't stand using Win7 now because I can't find my open applications quickly enough.

I also do not understand why people miss the start menu. Both the start menu in Win7 and start screen in Win8 suck. I actually have no idea where my applications are, but that doesn't matter, because I simply type the application name in the search bar and hit enter (for things that aren't pinned to my taskbar).

Also, multi-monitor support functions correctly when using remote desktop to a Win8 machine. You could fake it in Win7 by using /span, but that had its own flaws.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By jmke on 2/19/2013 4:26:40 AM , Rating: 3
Ultramon.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By Fritzr on 2/19/2013 7:35:41 PM , Rating: 2
Paid 3rd party vs Free pre-installed.

Integrated, free and pre-installed usually wins with consumers.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By nikon133 on 2/18/2013 4:08:40 PM , Rating: 2
Out of curiosity... Do you think many people around here actually don't use their PC every day, at work and at home, when you feel a need to emphasise that?

Humour me. I believe you that Linux Mint 14 looks great. I hear ya. But... will those 15 applications you run on your Windows also run on Linux, and is it going to be simple - or possible at all - to find adequate Linux apps to replace them all. If not - can you really switch? Do you work in OS itself, or in apps running under OS?

Because I don't think I could replace apps I am using dailt at my work. My work PC runs on only 2 monitors. I do run on them pretty much daily:

Outlook
Word
Excel
PowerPoint
ConnectWise
ITQuoter
CorelDraw
Corel PhotoPaint
Adobe DreamWeaver
SharePoint Workspace
IE, Firefox, Chrome
3CX MyPhone

I have most of them open during the work hours, all of them on occasion. Under Windows 8 Enterprise. Works brilliantly for me ever since I've installed it on my work PC, back in September. In fact, I have upgraded my personal laptop and home PC to Win 8 since. Not because Win 7 is bad - it was great and my favourite Windows ever, before I got hooked to 8. But I do like 8 more.

Looking forward Blue release.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By eldakka on 2/18/2013 8:21:29 PM , Rating: 1
Hmm, just taking a punt, I don't use most of these applications but seeing if i can think of Linux alternatives ;)

Outlook - an email client, so thunderbird, other clients, mailx and mail if you are desperate enough ;)
Word - Open/Libre Office, others, emacs or vi if really desperate
Excel - Open/Libre Office, others
Powerpoint - no idea, it's just presentation software so probably
ConnectWise - had to google this, no idea what it was. I don't know if there is a Linux equivalent, but according to a brief look at what it does, there are many open source equivalents of its individual functionality (ticketing systems, invoice systems etc) tho not sure if there's something that integrates all into a single product.
ITQuoter - no idea.
CorelDraw/Photopaint/dreamweaver - many opensource Linux alternatives, GIMP, Dia, Inkscape, sK1, etc. Capabilities will vary.
Sharepoint Workspace - eww sharepoint (wait, can't u just use a source control system with your favourite products editing files and syncing to remote PC'/servers/Cloud servers?)
IE/Firefox/Chrome - browsers, FF and chrome work on Linux
3CX MyPhone - some sort of advanced PBX software? There are PBX software that runs on Linux. Tho I have no idea on how they compare, 3CX may shit all over them, no idea.

And if worst comes to worst, if you needed these EXACT products (as opposed to other products that can do the same/similiar job) then most of them could probably run under WINE.

Disclaminer I use a Windows XP (yes, XP!) desktop at work, multimonitor, running heaps of apps simultaneously, Lotus Notes, MS Office products, text editors (yay Notepad++), source control software (icky clearcase), browsers (FF, IE, Opera mostly), cygwin/X with 2 rootless X sessions each with like 6 xterms running in each, plus another 6 xterms in multiwindow mode. I'm hoping to get to win7 before the end of the year tho...


RE: Brace yourselves....
By nikon133 on 2/19/2013 4:08:44 PM , Rating: 2
And punt you'll get! ;)

Email client - has to fully integrate with Exchange (email, calendar, shared calendars, contacts) and have available connectors to ConnectWise (calendar syncing) and 3CX (soft-phone calling from contacts, voicemails sent to inbox as attachments). I'm not aware many can do this, beside good old Outlook.

Word, Excel, PP - replacements would have to be fully compatible with MS Office. Formulas, VB support, formatting... we do cooperate and collaborate within company, and on occasion with customers as well.

ConnectWise - it took time and money to implement and tune it to our requirements. Moving to different platform would be... wasteful at least.

ITQuoter is CRM based piece of software, not pretty but functional. Has access to all our supplier stock lists, with pricing and available stock. It also links with ConnectWise - ie you create a quote in ITQ and it creates Opportunity ticket in CW. Then you can elevate VW opportunity to project, for example, and add other project elements. Basically sales/procurement tool.

CDR, CPT, DreamWeaver. Coincidently our printer is using CDR, so sending files is as painless as possible. Sure we could use something else but it would require additional conversions to PS or AI or any other wide-accepted format. Yes it would work, but it would add complexity to the process, and unnecessary one, IMHO. Additionally, time would have to be spent to learn new software, without any obvious gains and easy to expect problems along the way. Why?

SharePoint - yeah, not my favourite either. But... we do use it and our customers do use it, so it is unavoidable right now.

Browsers - fine.

3CX, software based VoIP PBX. Works with number of VoIP phones (like Cisco S504G) and softphones. Integrates with Outlook. I'm only using it, but according to our engineer in charge, it is very capable. One way or another, it is requirement.

So you see... a one man band could replace Windows with Linux (or OSx) OS and tools, but even then with questionable success and hard to predict issues and frustrations, and wasted time to get into new software.

But as a part of company with established IT infrastructure and processes... no, I don't think so.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By crispbp04 on 2/18/13, Rating: -1
RE: Brace yourselves....
By retrospooty on 2/18/2013 5:31:21 PM , Rating: 4
""if you were intelligent enough.......... not pinning frequent applications to your taskbar you're also retarded."

He is, pinning apps to his taskbar... he said he's got 15 of them. If you were intelligent enough, you would know that the taskbar is also called quick-launch. ;)

Sorry, I couldn't resist, seeing someone insult the intelligence of another with a clear mistake in the response is pretty funny. :P


RE: Brace yourselves....
By crispbp04 on 2/18/13, Rating: -1
RE: Brace yourselves....
By Norseman4 on 2/18/2013 7:12:34 PM , Rating: 2
In Win7, I pinned 1 item (VS2010 ... gimme a linix version of that and we'll talk!) to both the Start menu and task bar.

Mousing over the start menu item at the top of the list (VS2010) shows all of my recent files. Same shows up for the pinned item in my task bar.

(I truly love this xerox inspired addition to the PC called a mouse, except when the laser has trouble tracking on the gloss white desktop)


RE: Brace yourselves....
By Norseman4 on 2/18/2013 7:25:38 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, got a bit confused about the poster-who-I-replying-to's viewpoint. (I blame the rum, though I still don't like the Win8 UI for anything but touch enabled screens)


RE: Brace yourselves....
By retrospooty on 2/18/2013 7:16:00 PM , Rating: 2
Quicklaunch is what he is referring to as taskbar when you insulted him for no reason. It is one in the same, some apps take advantage of the added functionality some don't, but its the same thing. Not sure? Check where your own taskbar shortcuts are... I'll give you a clue, they live here in the "QUICKLAUNCH" folder in Vista, Win7 and 8 (and the equivalent folder in XP as well).

C:\Users\[userfolder]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\I nternet Explorer\Quick Launch


RE: Brace yourselves....
By retrospooty on 2/18/2013 7:17:40 PM , Rating: 2
I meant to add... .YOu'll even find your "user pinned" folder there. It is the exact same thing int he same place with added funtcionality for apps that support it. Thus the folder name - quicklaunch.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By crispbp04 on 2/18/13, Rating: -1
RE: Brace yourselves....
By retrospooty on 2/18/2013 8:55:11 PM , Rating: 3
Lol. Its not wrong, you're wrong , go look at your own folder I posted above. Pin a new app to your taskbar. You will see it appear in your quicklaunch\pinned folder you dope. Delete another pinned app and you will see it disappear. Its the same thing.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By bigboxes on 2/19/2013 10:25:03 AM , Rating: 3
RE: Brace yourselves....
By crispbp04 on 2/19/2013 3:21:46 PM , Rating: 2
i didn't need to mention vista since nobody used it. But yeah, it died with vista, thanks for the correction.

It doesn't change the fact that quick launch sucked, and it is not the same as a pinned application. Where microsoft decided to store information is irrelevant.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By bigboxes on 2/19/2013 4:43:47 PM , Rating: 2
Sigh. That is a Win7 screenshot. Right click on the task bar > Toolbars > Quick Launch.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By Ramstark on 2/18/2013 5:57:10 PM , Rating: 2
Ummm...I'm sorry pal, but you just described yourself as EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE to a corporate user. Corporations are full of mediocre, hard to update, hardware which require a light OS and backward compatibility, that's why corporations WILL upgrade when the software for touch working interfaces boom. It will start on health and construction industries, we, programmers and IT teams would be the last, as programming "Tron like" will take a long way to go yet, and we know how programmers or accountants as you and me like the old PC form factor.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By p05esto on 2/18/2013 8:19:45 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. If MS keeps pissing me off I will also move to Linux. Watch the tech/geek crowd flow to Linux like a great tidal wave, it will be enormous! And where the techs go the average folks always follow, ALWAYS. The techs recommend to their family and friends, coworkers, etc. Stupid MS, get your head out of your ASS!


RE: Brace yourselves....
By Fritzr on 2/19/2013 7:52:39 PM , Rating: 2
Followed by the support requests..
Why doesn't <MS only> work on my new <Greatest Linux ever!> computer?
I need to install <not supported by Linux> on my <Greatest Linux ever!> that I just bought. Can you help me?
I need to configure this new program, but it tells me to select options without telling me what I can choose. Can you help me? (Linux is famous for assuming that users know where the documentation can be found and how to follow unmentioned connections to other references...Yes Windows help can be just as bad, but the software assumes a much lower level of technical expertise)

Remember that the target market for new applications and devices is the dominant OS. Everything else is an afterthought. Exceptions are niche targeted devices that are often adaptations of things available for the dominant market. Exceptions exist for companies that make their rep by specializing in niche OSes such as Unix compatible or Apple OSes, but they are exceptional cases.

If you actually handle family & friends support, you can fill the list easily. If not then just consider everything you have done adding things to the package you picked up at the store and imagine people without your training trying the same thing.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By iamezza on 2/19/2013 8:45:07 AM , Rating: 2
Install Start 8, 5 mins and your done, never worry about metro again.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By chripuck on 2/19/2013 11:15:46 AM , Rating: 2
The problem with Windows 8 is that it is only a few tweaks away from being really awesome, even with the Metro UI.

1.) Get rid of the Metro multi-tasking. You have the task bar, it's been there for 20 years, it works, even for tablets. You can add a swipe up action to show screenshots of each running program if need be, but it multi-tasking should be done in one place.

2.) Allow Metro applications to be windowed on the task bar. Make this a configurable setting, desktop/laptops have it off, tablets have it on (so the Windows button works as intended.)

3.) Put the Start Button back. It doesn't have to bring up the old start menu, it still goes to the Metro menu, but it brings everyone comfort. Give it a flashy animation to show it "blowing up"

4.) For heaven's sake, make application folders collapsible (and collapsed by default) when viewing All Apps in the Metro interface.


RE: Brace yourselves....
By Mitch101 on 2/18/2013 4:45:18 PM , Rating: 2
Yup thats why I think Im going to avoid reading the comments and move to to the next article.


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