backtop


Print 70 comment(s) - last by nrhpd527.. on Feb 11 at 10:51 PM


  (Source: Reuters)
Classified document defines under what circumstances a death strike is warranted

The Senate Intelligence Committee will this morning receive a classified document that provides a more formalized version of the policies contained in a white paper memo -- "Lawfulness of a Lethal Operation Directed Against a U.S. Citizen who is a Senior Operational Leader of Al Qa’ida or An Associated Force" -- which leaked to the press earlier this week.

Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) -- chairwoman of the committee -- cheered the release, commenting, "I am pleased that the president has agreed to provide the Intelligence Committee with access to the OLC (Office of Legal Counsel) opinion regarding the use of lethal force in counterterrorism operations.  It is critical for the committee's oversight function to fully understand the legal basis for all intelligence and counterterrorism operations."

The committee had already received the memo, but did not receive its more highly classified counterpart, which was responsible for actual policy decisions.

The Obama Administration looked to put a positive spin on the release, commenting, "Today, as part of the president's ongoing commitment to consult with Congress on national security matters, the president directed the Department of Justice to provide the congressional Intelligence committees access to classified Office of Legal Counsel advice related to the subject of the Department of Justice White Paper."

President Obama
President Obama says killing American terrorists without a warrant is the kind of "tough decision" you sometimes have to make. [Image Source: AFP/Getty Images]

The U.S. has to date killed over 28 al-Qaida terrorist leaders under the Bush and Obama administration using drone strikes.  Among those was U.S. citizen Anwar al-Awlaki, who was killed in a Sept. 2011 drone strike in Yemen.

The controversy over al-Awlaki's death was that no warrant or indictment had been issued against him. And while he was intimately involved with al-Qaida, U.S. intelligence did not indicate he was directly involved with a current terror plot.  The question was whether Mr. al-Awlaki received his Constitutionally guaranteed right to due process.

Despite the controversy, President Obama is finding some surprising support.  House Intelligence Chairman Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Mich.) agreed with his political foe this time, commenting, "[al-Awlaki was] somebody who had said that he didn't want his U.S. citizenship anymore.  He had officially joined al Qaeda.  Al Qaeda had declared war on the United States."

"The legal basis of this goes back many, many years when U.S. citizens would go and fight for foreign nations that were engaging in combat with the United States. So what they were saying is, once you've made that choice, you no longer get the protections that you would. I mean, if you join the enemy overseas, you join the enemy overseas. And we're going to fight the enemy overseas."

On Jon Stewart's Daily Show, President Obama indirectly defended the policy in a guest appearance, stating:

There are times where there are bad folks somewhere on the other side of the world, and you've got to make a call and it's not optimal.  And sometimes you've got to make some tough calls. But you can do so in a way that's consistent with international law and with American law.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) calls death strikes on Americans without indictments a "chilling" precedent.  They and the President's critics fear that the Obama administration or future administrations could arbitrarily label political enemies "terrorists" and target them with unconstitutional death strikes.
 

Reaper drones
Reaper drones are currently being used over U.S. airspace. [Image Source: The Real Revo]
 
The issue may be rectified if Congress steps in and pushes a more concrete definition of what constitutes a "terrorist".

Source: CNN



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Due process is dead
By Ammohunt on 2/7/2013 11:30:08 AM , Rating: 5
While i will not shed a tear for a terrorist piece of garbage they were still American citizens and that privilege comes with Constitutional protection of rights not derived from government. When those protections are suspended on a whim in order to commit murder we might as well throw the Constitution in the trash and all fear for our lives.




RE: Due process is dead
By othercents on 2/7/2013 11:44:56 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
they were still American citizens

Actually Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act specifically states enter or serve in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. you can loose your citizenship. How it is determined that you are serving in an armed force against the US would be a grey area, however I suspect if there was a strike on a facility and you happened to be there as a non-captive then it can be determined that you were serving in their military.

They can also formally renounced their citizenship, but that requires more paperwork than they probably did.


RE: Due process is dead
By Ammohunt on 2/7/2013 11:51:32 AM , Rating: 2
And something that a trial by a jury of your peers would discover vs a determination by the executive branch of our government see the problem?


RE: Due process is dead
By othercents on 2/7/2013 12:40:53 PM , Rating: 1
In this case yes, however this would require people to be able to trust the judgement of the President based on the classified information he was provided, which we don't know. I understand that there is some animosity towards the President from certain groups of people. While I don't agree with the majority of what he has done, I do agree that with ample evidence to backup the reasoning for a strike including reasoning for not capturing this individual that the strike was warranted. The oversight at this point is proving after the fact that he acted in the best interest of the country and in accordance to constitutional law.

Capturing this individual was not an option due to the distress of the country of Yemen during that time, so in reality if the person was known to be in France then we would have captured them and brought them back to face trial which might have been a military trial if there was evidence that they were working for the al-Qaida (mostly likely a confession). Lacking this option and with a number of grievances against this individual an airstrike was the only option.

Other


RE: Due process is dead
By Ammohunt on 2/7/2013 2:27:35 PM , Rating: 2
This was a cut and dry assassination of an American citizen. At the time it was hard to determine if he was much of a threat to warrant a death sentence in such a fashion. Also what wasn't mention was the two other Americans that were also killed in this operation his 16 year old son and his sons friend. What were their crimes? we will never know because the executive branch acting as judge jury and executioner blew them all to hell before they could be tried. I am all for the death sentence but this is an egregious abuse of power and is just another part of the track record of this administration to crap on the constitution.


RE: Due process is dead
By MrBlastman on 2/7/2013 3:45:31 PM , Rating: 4
What makes me upset is there is this growing belief in society that if it is for the greater good, then it is okay.

The problem is not the definition of "the greater good" but whether or not the act respects our Constitution or not. The difficulty we are having, though, is the multitude of younger people that believe the document is antiquated and outdated, needing revision.

This begets the course our nation is taking, or, more appropriately labeled, "wrong turn."

I think what has happened is those within our walls have become far too comfortable with everything heroes before them have died for. Forgotten heroes that sacrificed their lives so they can sit around all day saying the Constitution is garbage and the Europeans have it better. Misguided ideals that have been fed to them through our institutionalized brainwashing system, otherwise known as public schools.

So right now we might be discussing how this 16-year old son was murdered (he was) by a sitting president, without any trial, jury or motive other than a "hunch." Yet, the evidence was discovered after the fact. To us, now, that is relevant. However, the danger we face is years from now the Constitution or our laws being re-written by tyrants (hidden in the guise of benevolence) and thus, washed from the books and completely forgotten.

The boy was murdered. His dad was murdered. Yeah, now we know they were up to no good but never in the past has it been acceptable to shoot someone because "they look funny" and then afterwards go, "See! I told you so!" and get away with it. If a normal citizen walked up to another and killed them on the street they'd be thrown in prison or executed. If the president does it, what happens?

They come up with excuses. Excuses that are unchallenged by a lacksidaisical public too busy with their stuff to care.

After all, they still have their stuff, their money and their pathetic material pursuits. The president must be doing good, right?

I worry what our nation will look like a few decades from now. Thankfully I have a daughter that I can pass the truth on to. My challenge will be keeping this truth in her head when the youth and teachers around her try and extract, bend and modify it for the "better."

The president should be held accountable. He should be brought to trial and possibly executed like any other common criminal. Under the laws of our Constitution and by the rule of law--no other way will have as big an impact as thus.

I don't think our people have the clout to do that anymore though.


RE: Due process is dead
By othercents on 2/7/2013 5:05:25 PM , Rating: 2
So now the question is if the person was a citizen. Since the constitution only address the general idea of natural citizenship in the 14th Amendment, the Immigration and Nationality Act specifically states how one becomes a citizen and how one can lose their citizenship. The question now becomes, who determines someone is no longer a citizen and was that process followed and can that be determined as due process?

Once you are no longer a citizen you fall under international law. Another question is if a rocket into a crowd of people is the correct response to kill one person. Obviously it would be better if we used other means to take out a single target without the extra casualties.

BTW. The 16 year old was a casualty of war, not someone targeted. He happened to be with a group of people where someone was a target.


RE: Due process is dead
By hero_of_zero on 2/9/2013 5:44:51 PM , Rating: 2
"BTW. The 16 year old was a casualty of war, not someone targeted. He happened to be with a group of people where someone was a target."

I never knew the USA at war with Yemen.I know Yemen getting paid per day for the USA to go blowing sh1t up in there btw.Funny seems like the usa only 1 to my current memory that can be allowed on other nation lands n kill people in the open with their military and not even be at war with the said nation.
Man going to be fun when china get in the game of playing this war on terror and flying shit in in other nations and openly killing people when they not even at war with the nations they are blowing people up in .


RE: Due process is dead
By RufusM on 2/7/2013 12:44:49 PM , Rating: 3
It's one thing if American citizens join an opposing force and it's unknown who is, or isn't, an American citizen. They just become part of the opposing force and there's no way to identify them. Rule of thumb: If you engage the US military (or US police, etc.) in active combat, prepare to be killed.

If it's known that a group of American citizens is doing something illegal (on or off US soil), and a preemptive drone strike is made by the US military without any attempt to capture them, that is a huge problem.

If the strike was made by the host country in accordance with their laws, then the US citizens killed are SOL. Rule of thumb: When on foreign soil, you are subject to their laws.


RE: Due process is dead
By Reclaimer77 on 2/7/13, Rating: 0
RE: Due process is dead
By othercents on 2/7/2013 1:02:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
a preemptive drone strike is made by the US military without any attempt to capture them

Is that speculation, or do you know attempts were not made to capture? Keep in mind at the time Yemen government wouldn't have allowed American troops into their country.

Other


RE: Due process is dead
By RufusM on 2/7/2013 1:08:46 PM , Rating: 1
I have no idea of their capture was attempted, but I'm assuming that a drone strike is not an attempt to capture.

It could be that during an attempt to capture them, the US was met with resistance where they needed a drone strike to protect US military lives. If that was the case, then the US citizens put the US military in imminent danger so they are killed, not captured.

I'm not 100% sure of the protocol for using drones. I thought they weren't used as close air support but rather for more covert operations.


RE: Due process is dead
By MrBlastman on 2/7/2013 2:02:21 PM , Rating: 1
I'm glad we have the Second Amendment.

Any fool that believes an assault weapons ban is a good thing does not deserve to be a citizen nor understand why the second amendment exists.

They are particularly foolish because they somehow think the Government is capable, trustworthy and working for them, the people instead of special interests. Yet, people like this exist--everywhere.

So easily it seems they forget Waco, Ruby Ridge or other nasty incidents on our soil.


RE: Due process is dead
By Ammohunt on 2/7/2013 2:30:32 PM , Rating: 3
For those that have netflix and don't remember or have forgotten what happened in Waco search for Waco: The Rules of Engagement its the best non kooky documentary made on the topic if you don't feel sick after watching this...


RE: Due process is dead
By Simple_Man on 2/10/2013 7:20:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the best non kooky documentary


kooky = avoidance of the c word or the slippage of the name Oliver Stone :-o


RE: Due process is dead
By jimbojimbo on 2/7/2013 3:16:52 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities
You just countered yourself there. Which foreign state is engaging the US in hostilities?


RE: Due process is dead
By Simple_Man on 2/10/2013 7:06:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
enter or serve in the armed forces of a foreign state

Yes his family can rest assured he filled out the paperwork to join the Yeminis Armed Forces...unfortunately he was in an office at The Hall of Records building at the time of his trial/sentencing/execution.
state being the key word of ambiguity as it has no less than 6 definitions when used as a noun pertaining to government/politics

"You can't be a Real Country unless you have a BEER and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a BEER." - Frank Zappa


RE: Due process is dead
By Saldrin on 2/7/13, Rating: 0
RE: Due process is dead
By unsurehubris on 2/7/2013 12:09:09 PM , Rating: 5
I think the issue is we don't know for sure who is, and who isn't, a terrorist; especially when being viewed through the lens of a drone from thousands of miles away.

Do you expect the US to have perfect intelligence all the time, e.g. Iraq? Do you expect the decision maker to never make a mistake? The result isn't an "oops", it's the death of at least one innocent person. American citizen or not that result would be an injustice.

In the US we have a jury to prevent the proverbial "judge, jury, and executioner". I just think we need to be wary when a single person or administration yields this right without any oversight by the people representing that administration.


RE: Due process is dead
By TSS on 2/10/2013 10:50:17 AM , Rating: 2
Oh you definitly know who's a terrorist. Obama's one, for enabling infinite detention of americans, the senate and house as well, atleast all of them who voted for said legislation.

Then add the shareholders, board of directors and management of the 5 biggest banks in there for endangering the financial system more then the 9/11 terrorists ever did, by amassing $221 Trillion in derivates.

Throw insurers and big drug companies in there as well, since they will litteraly walk on corpses to get profit. The management of big food will probably go as well once it comes out how your food is actually made and how safety is skipped for profit.

The NRA as well, since it's one thing to allow abiding citizens to have guns but it's another to push guns into every corner of society just so the arms companies can get higher profits. Then you're just inviting mass shootings. Ban the handguns, allow the assault rifles, the bigger the better (far easyer to notice, and once the government comes for you concealment of the weapon isn't the problem anymore) and more importantly, allow a discussion of compromise, which there certainly isn't now.

Oh, almost forgot, the heads/shareholders of the 6-7 biggest national media networks in the US. Though i figure, if you take down the above you'll get most of those people anyway. Add them to the list though, just to be sure.

... Yeah i think that's about everybody who is causing systematic terror on a daily basis in the US right now. Well, aside from the population themselves going along with it. I'd think the best arguement for banning guns is the fact that 50% of all guns in the entire world are in the US right now, yet, nobody is taking them up against the government that's clearly, OBVIOUSLY, tyrranical. If guns could protect you from the government, they would've already.


RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/10/2013 11:30:22 AM , Rating: 2
You are 100% right. Throw in pretty much every member of Congress and every president in the past at least 30 years... The FDA as well


RE: Due process is dead
By Ammohunt on 2/7/2013 12:17:58 PM , Rating: 2
Not saying i like it but what changed my mind was something that happened about 10 years ago with a dumbass family member(not a terrorist) who had an encounter with the Secret Service. Before any dialogue began they informed him that due process doesn't apply, effectively suspending his constitutional rights on the spot. So to suggest that this kind of thing only happens to pieces of trash in Yemen; make no mistake this type of power is and has been bandied about domestically for quite some time. Rights granted by the constitution are not subject to interference by government thats the whole point the rights laid out in that document were determined to exist in a vacuum government or no government terrorist or not.


RE: Due process is dead
By Piiman on 2/9/2013 10:01:48 AM , Rating: 2
Just because some law enforcement num nuts claims your right to due process don't apply doesn't make it so.
KNOW YOUR RIGHTS and dont' believe everything law enforcement tells you. They are allowed to lie to get what they want from you. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS people!


RE: Due process is dead
By hero_of_zero on 2/9/2013 6:18:50 PM , Rating: 2
free medical Obamacare?How is it free by forcing everyone to buy health insurance from a corporation free?BTw was a repub idea for decades.
Then if they going to do target killing in a nation they are not at war with use a fin sniper not a fin missile that blows up n is made to do area damage .That be like saying it a ok for the cops to use rocket luncher or start chucking frag grenades in a crowd to kill the guy that robbed a bank or killed a cop etc.


RE: Due process is dead
By Reclaimer77 on 2/7/13, Rating: 0
RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/7/2013 12:18:42 PM , Rating: 2
"Under his first term we heard the disturbing reports of Americans who disagreed with his policies being classified as "Right Wing terrorists". Now enter step 2, "legally" being able to murder them if they threaten his power grasp."

Come on now, you are way blowing this out of propertion... Al-Awlaki joined Al Qaeda and we are at war with this organization, like it or not... I don't like anything Obama does fiscally, but I have to agree with this one. If you go and join Al Qaeda I want a drone shoved up your ass as well. If I joined Al Qaeda I would expect the same. You openly denounce your citizenship and any rights when you conspire with AQ. Time to die and spare the Earth from having to deal with your spite.


RE: Due process is dead
By Reclaimer77 on 2/7/13, Rating: 0
RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/7/2013 12:39:05 PM , Rating: 2
"Al-Awlaki was obviously a "terrorist"

That is all I was commenting on.

"what you don't seem to be concerned about is by Obama sweeping due process and the Constitution (as usual) to the wayside, what assurances do we have that only actual "terrorists" will be targeted in the future?"

I don't like this, I just don't see it happening. They aren't sending drones to go kill any enemy of the state. They are using it to kill known terrorists like Al-Awlaki. If they do target someone other than an "actual terrorist" I will be right there with you, but that hasnt happened. All they did was kill Al-Awlaki, and based on what tehy did I think its a good thing.


RE: Due process is dead
By Reclaimer77 on 2/7/13, Rating: 0
RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/7/2013 1:06:08 PM , Rating: 2
"Not yet. However if the Constitution and the due process of law is ignored, what assurances do we have that this wont be the case?"

None... But what assurances do we have that the govt. wont declare war on Peru and start bombing them? You cant be up in arms against something that someone didn't do. the govt. could bypass due process on anything at any time for any reason but you cant condemn something that didn't even happen.

"Dude no offense ..... I'm sure a lot of Germans said the same thing around the 1930's as you are right now"

None taken, or menat from my end... Its all good, this is a friendly debate. It's not like Apple was brought up ;)

The problem in Germany wasn't that the Nazi's came in to power and looked like they could potentially do something atrocious. The problem in Germany is that they DID perform many many many atrocities and no-one stopped them. If our govt does anything like that, I would be surprised, and outraged and WAY beyond furious.

"But this IS a slippery slope, you cannot deny that, so why hammer someone for debating it?"

Yes, it is... but no hammer, just a soft touch keyboard ;)


RE: Due process is dead
By Reclaimer77 on 2/7/13, Rating: -1
RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/7/2013 1:36:32 PM , Rating: 2
No, I am over that guy. I voted for him in 2008 and was thoroughly fed up by 2011. I did not vote for him this time. I just think there so many things he has done awful with regards to the economy that it's inexcusable. His foreign policy has actually been okay. I just don't think we're going to see drone attacks on anyone that isn't an obvious terrorist.I certainly hope not.


RE: Due process is dead
By M'n'M on 2/7/2013 3:10:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I just don't think we're going to see drone attacks on anyone that isn't an obvious terrorist.I certainly hope not.

Imagine a slightly different scenario. There's an unpopular war going on. You protest it. You go to the other sides capitol city and are photo'ed sitting on one of their weapons. Are you now a combatant ? Have you joined the other side ? You're probably unpopular with whatever party is in power at the time. Should the President have sole authority to deem you worthy of killing ? And not by a drone, just by an assassin using whatever means he can, perhaps whereever he can ? Because IIRC the AG has said the "battlefield" is anyplace in the war on terror. What was once clear, being a soldier on the battlefield is no longer clear, at least in the legal terms. That should concern anyone.


RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/7/2013 3:22:45 PM , Rating: 2
"Imagine a slightly different scenario. There's an unpopular war going on. You protest it. You go to the other sides capitol city and are photo'ed sitting on one of their weapons. Are you now a combatant ? Have you joined the other side ? You're probably unpopular with whatever party is in power at the time. Should the President have sole authority to deem you worthy of killing ?"

No, of course not, but that isn't what happened. If someone just spoke out against the govt or even was seen with enemies doesn't make them enemies. Al-Awlaki is a known terrorist that conspired and even helped the 9/11 hijeckers. He's not just a guy who was seen with the wrong people, he is a member of Al Qaeda and is an accomplice to the murder of thousands of innocent people.

"And not by a drone, just by an assassin using whatever means he can, perhaps wherever he can ?"

You say that as if this doesn't already go on and hasnt for the past (at least) 50 years. If the US govt. Wants you dead, you're basically going to die... The only thing new here, is drones that can get to you faster if your found.


RE: Due process is dead
By M'n'M on 2/7/2013 5:57:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No, of course not, but that isn't what happened. If someone just spoke out against the govt or even was seen with enemies doesn't make them enemies. Al-Awlaki is a known terrorist that conspired and even helped the 9/11 hijeckers.

In this case, yes. I'm not worried about Al-Awlaki but the kind of power this grants to the Executive branch and who will misuse it the future. Consider what happened with civil asset forfeiture laws during the drug wars of the 80's. No-one was concerned when it was the dealers who lost their cars, homes, cash. Then it became the odd citizens who became victims. Not that long ago NYC was talking about seizing the cars of people accused of DUI and not returning them, independent of any trial results ... indeed no need for any trial. The accusation was enough.

My point is Govt is always looking for ways to expand it's powers, not do do evil, but to "get the bad guy". Far too often the rights of the ordinary guy get lost in that zeal. I see no need to have people assassinated in borderline cases due to that zeal and then have the deep thinking done then, that should be have been before now. We have divided Govt for a good reason.


RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/8/2013 8:02:40 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, it is scary... But the truth is, if the US govt. decides they want you dead, you are dead. This isnt new its been going on at least 1/2 a century, the only new thing here is the tech. Where a human resource would have gone in an killed a target, there is now an explosive drone, which of course leaves obvious evidence... So in the end.

1. If the govt wants someone dead and they are a publicly acceptable target like Al-Awlaki - Drone strike.

2. If the govt wants someone dead and they are NOT a publicly acceptable target - The old methods...

See my point?


RE: Due process is dead
By Reclaimer77 on 2/8/13, Rating: 0
RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/8/2013 9:49:42 AM , Rating: 1
I am not saying its right, or that I agree, but it's nothing new. The govt. does all sorts of secretive bastard shit and always has.

I don't think its wrong to discuss their power and our rights, of course not, and I don't think its right that the govt just does what it wants... I am just saying, we can talk all we want and debate all we want, the govt is still going to do what it does. And as far as this drone thing, its just window dressing, as the govt already does what it wants and will continue to do so.


RE: Due process is dead
By nrhpd527 on 2/11/2013 10:51:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There's an unpopular war going on. You protest it. You go to the other sides capitol city and are photo'ed sitting on one of their weapons. Are you now a combatant ? Have you joined the other side ? You're probably unpopular with whatever party is in power at the time. Should the President have sole authority to deem you worthy of killing ?


Well, if we can invent a time machine and use it to do this to Jane Fonda in Hanoi, I'm ok with it that ONE time...


RE: Due process is dead
By Reclaimer77 on 2/8/2013 9:05:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
His foreign policy has actually been okay.


Yup. Hey I hear there's an US Ambassador position open now. Want the job? Great benefits and protection, Obama totally has your back! :)

Sorry couldn't resist lol, too easy.


RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/8/2013 9:18:53 PM , Rating: 2
LOL +1


RE: Due process is dead
By Piiman on 2/9/2013 10:34:14 AM , Rating: 2
lol -10

Like no huge goverment branch has ever made a mistake?
I seem to remember other ambassadors being killed in the past before Obama so quit acting like this has happened only on Obama's watch.
"too easy"?
Try thinking a little and it may be more complicated than your silly little "I hate Obama" mind can comprehend.


RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/9/2013 11:28:32 AM , Rating: 2
Chill out man. I was LOLing at a funny, not making a political statement. I dont hate Obama, specifically on foreign policy. Other than the economy, I think he is doing pretty well.


RE: Due process is dead
By Reclaimer77 on 2/9/2013 4:23:28 PM , Rating: 2
First off to call this a "mistake" is absurd.

We now know the Ambassador felt there was a credible threat, and made repeated requests for extra security. And those were denied and ignored for political reasons. 100% fact.

Yes Ambassadors have been killed in the past, and that's always tragic. But make no mistake, those Americans were simply hung out to dry and sacrificed so this President wouldn't appear to be hostile to Muslims, or whatever his rationale is.

Also for two weeks after Benghazi, the public was told this was a random act of mob violence because of an "anti-Islamic" movie someone made. Another lie. They knew the ENTIRE TIME this was a deliberate planned terrorist attack. They even knew beforehand that extra security was called for, and did not act.

These are facts, nobody is even disputing these facts. Maybe it's you who should try some critical thinking?

This is just par for the course for this Administration. Nobody is to blame. Nobody is forced to give an answer to the people. Nobody is made to tell the truth. Hillary Clinton basically said "hey, sh$t happens", and that's just good enough for the media and all you sheep.

Where is the anger? Where is the leadership? Where is the message that attacking and killing Ambassadors and US citizens is not acceptable, even If you were angry about some "movie"? There's NO leadership coming from our "leaders" on this at all. And like most of your type, you're strangely fine with all this.

You're a pitiful excuse for a human, I spit on you that you can boil all this down to "Obama hate".


RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/10/2013 8:57:53 AM , Rating: 2
Dood, as much as piiman is passing it off as a mistake, you are piling on as if its the biggest blunder in foreign policy history. You sound like Fox news, making every little thing into a huge issue. FFS, mistakes happen. You cant respond to every threat, people die. Its not the fault the president when an embassy is overrun. Hell Bush ignored many credible warnings and 911 happened. It's not his fault, its the fault of the murderous asses that did it. There are plenty of real things to attack Obama on about the economy and spending/debt. To blow things like this out of proportion just isnt necessary.


RE: Due process is dead
By Reclaimer77 on 2/10/2013 7:10:05 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
There are plenty of real things to attack Obama on about the economy and spending/debt.


Yes and you went to GREAT lengths defending Obama on THAT issue in the past too. Admit it, you cannot abide ANY criticism of this President.

You voted for the man, you did. Not me. You sound like one of those Apple guys defending their purchase to the last breath. Just admit you suck at politics, make poor decisions, and move on.

quote:
Hell Bush ignored many credible warnings and 911 happened.


....

Amazing. Going on 5 years now and you just cannot question Obama without the "blame Bush" card being used!!!

And are you seriously suggesting that ANYTHING could have been done to stop 911 with the information he had? You people act like he had a specific time, date, and plan of attack all spelled out. But just dropped the ball. Give me a goddamn break!

Sure I guess he could have stopped all air traffic in the country for a month or so. That would have stopped 911, but...

Argh I can't even believe you drew me into that absurd argument. You bring up Bush AND Fox News?? Seriously? Just fuck you. That is getting SO tired. You will NOT shut me up with that tactic.


RE: Due process is dead
By retrospooty on 2/11/2013 7:37:02 AM , Rating: 2
"Yes and you went to GREAT lengths defending Obama on THAT issue in the past too. Admit it, you cannot abide ANY criticism of this President."

You say that right after I said my own critisicm of Obama and his piss poor handling of the economy??? OK. What is it about politics that riles you up so much and makes you throw logic and objectivity out the window in favor of criticizing anything and everything the other side does?

"You voted for the man, you did. Not me."

I told you, I voted for him in 08. in the 12 election I voted for Romney, because I think Obama has done a poor job.

"Amazing. Going on 5 years now and you just cannot question Obama without the "blame Bush" card being used And are you seriously suggesting that ANYTHING could have been done to stop 911"

That isnt at all what I am saying. Did you not read my post? I was saying blaming Obama for every little thing that happens overseas is "like" blaming Bush for 911. Neither was thier faults. I was defending BUSH

But yes, piling on a non issue, you do remind me of Fox news. Dood, get some perspective. You are posting out of anger, and not even reading what you are posing against.


RE: Due process is dead
By Piiman on 2/9/2013 10:23:20 AM , Rating: 2
"None taken, or menat from my end... Its all good, this is a friendly debate. It's not like Apple was brought up ;)"

Well I'm pretty sure those drones are powered by iOS and an iPhone. :-)


RE: Due process is dead
By ppardee on 2/7/2013 1:09:14 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, come on, Reclaimer, you can't go comparing the United States with Nazi Germany. The Nazis gathered up people who hadn't committed any crimes because of their race, confiscated their property and shipped them to concentration camps. It's not like the US ever did anything remotely like that.

Oh. Wait. We did. Nevermind. Carry on.


RE: Due process is dead
By DigitalFreak on 2/7/2013 1:51:38 PM , Rating: 2
For once I agree with Reclaimer.


RE: Due process is dead
By Piiman on 2/9/2013 10:06:06 AM , Rating: 1
Where did you get the idea no one was criticizing Obama for this? I'm a support of Obama and I am not a supporter of drone strikes in this country on American citizens.

The only people I see supporting this are people that are still afraid of the Boogie man.



RE: Due process is dead
By KCjoker on 2/7/2013 7:11:42 PM , Rating: 2
Obama care about the Constitution? lol It hasn't bothered him so far to ignore it. I can't even imagine the protests if Bush had done this BS....and yes I fully realize Bush sucked. The media will for the most part ignore this though because he's their hero just like they have for all his other BS.


"Death Is Very Likely The Single Best Invention Of Life" -- Steve Jobs














botimage
Copyright 2014 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki