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European Union wants a much larger electric vehicle infrastructure

With fuel prices in Europe considerably higher than prices in the U.S., the European Union has big plans to help push drivers to electric vehicles and that plan includes adding a huge number of new electric vehicle charging stations.

The European Union wants to add half a million EV charging stations by 2020. If successful, the plan would make electric vehicle charging stations nearly as common as gas stations within the EU.

”We can finally stop the chicken and the egg discussion on whether infrastructure needs to be there before the large scale roll out of electric vehicles. With our proposed binding targets for charging points using a common plug, electric vehicles are set to hit the road in Europe,” said Action Connie Hedegaard, the European Commissioner for Climate.


Tesla Model S

Some of the most ambitious plans in the EU come from Germany, France, Spain, and Britain. Each of those nations has a goal of having more than 7 million electric vehicles on the roads by 2020.
 
However, the European Union has a long way to go to reach its goal. Electric vehicles aren't exactly rolling off dealer lots at a rapid pace. During 2011, German drivers purchased 1,858 electric vehicles, 1,796 were purchased in France, 1,547 found homes in Norway, and 1,170 were purchased in Britain. Those numbers make EVs only a small fraction of the vehicles on the roads today.
 
The huge number of EV charging stations is a significant part of the plan to get drivers into electric vehicles, but the charging stations are not the entire plan. The Clean Power for Transport Package is an €8 billion plan that also includes standard for developing hydrogen, biofuels, and other natural gas networks.

Source: NYT



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Thanks God
By bigi on 1/30/13, Rating: 0
RE: Thanks God
By Amiga500 on 1/30/2013 11:39:40 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Electric cars are the only way to go.


Apart from hydrogen fuel cell...

Or hydrogen IC...

Or compressed air...


RE: Thanks God
By Motoman on 1/30/2013 12:28:53 PM , Rating: 2
Or, you know, petroleum products and ultimately transitioning into biofuels of some kind, still using ICE motors.

There are big problems with EVs...not just their cost and range, but the strain on electric grids and capacity - which is likely to be by far the biggest problem.

A few EVs recharging here and there is no big deal - drop, say, 10 EVs per charging station, which works out to 5 million cars, and you're probably looking at a sort of armageddon from the standpoint of electrical generation and distribution.

Lots more nuclear reactors and probably bonafide smart grids will be necessary before you can really support mainstream adoption of EVs.

I'm not sure about Europe's current state, grid-wise, but I can say I'm under the impression that the USA is in dire need of grid upgrades. I seem to recall that the cost to put the USA on a truly smart grid would be something like a $1 trillion project. Which probably needs to be done anyway...and we probably should be building more nuke plants anyway...but still.

The prudent course of action is likely to just keep developing the ultra-efficient little turbodiesel things that are all over the place in Europe, and continue R&D into biodiesel, and perhaps by the time we have smart grids we'll have secured a perpetual diesel supply anyway.m not sure about Europe


RE: Thanks God
By Mint on 1/30/13, Rating: 0
RE: Thanks God
By maugrimtr on 1/31/2013 10:38:05 AM , Rating: 2
Nuclear energy needs to get more attention. People are so afraid of 1950s era technology that they forget to use their 21st century smartphone with lithium battery technology to find out what a safer, minimal waste nuclear plant might use...

Environmentalists risk becoming Luddites if they continue to think that all future energy capacity can be derived from intermittent renewable sources. We need a blended approach. The only approach that should be off limits is burning stuff. Burning coal is the filthiest means of generating electricity known to mankind - it's even filthier than nuclear because it poisons the atmosphere without first requiring the unlikely event of a catastrophic meltdown or tsunami.


RE: Thanks God
By Mint on 1/31/2013 12:17:20 PM , Rating: 2
I want nuclear to succeed, but its going to be really tough for it to compete initially with the cheap gas we're getting from fracking.

At $4 per thousand cubic feet, we're looking at a fuel cost of just $0.024/kWh for a modern 60% efficient CCGT plant. It used to be 2-4x that much. Suddenly the fuel cost advantage of nuclear has been drastically cut. It'll take some really low cost plants to be worth the up front capital and risk.


RE: Thanks God
By Mint on 1/31/2013 12:18:30 PM , Rating: 2
I'm rather curious what people voted me down for...


RE: Thanks God
By bigi on 1/30/2013 3:56:24 PM , Rating: 1
Yes, yes...

you forgot:

1. Ocean water
2. Cosmic waves
3. Goodwill

Get real man. Nothing from your list will never work.


RE: Thanks God
By Dr of crap on 1/31/2013 12:52:36 PM , Rating: 2
But EV's WILL?

Based on YOUR opinion?

Lest you forget - they ARE NOT selling much!


RE: Thanks God
By Dorkyman on 1/30/13, Rating: 0
RE: Thanks God
By Mint on 1/30/2013 1:51:52 PM , Rating: 2
For Europe it makes a lot of sense. Gas costs about twice as much as it does here.

For example, the UK has an electric van called the Kangoo Z.E. for ~£16k. Gas is £6/gal, so you'd be spending £150 on gas for every 1000 miles if you buy the regular version. It'll only take a few years to break even, and it's all savings after that.

The biggest limitation, of course, is the lack of charging stations.

To bad the article had to quote 2011 sales figures. 2012 was many times better, and it's only going to grow. Gas just costs way too much there.


RE: Thanks God
By Spuke on 1/30/2013 1:31:45 PM , Rating: 2
I guess you missed this part.

quote:
However, the European Union has a long way to go to reach its goal. Electric vehicles aren't exactly rolling off dealer lots at a rapid pace. During 2011, German drivers purchased 1,858 electric vehicles, 1,796 were purchased in France, 1,547 found homes in Norway, and 1,170 were purchased in Britain. Those numbers make EVs only a small fraction of the vehicles on the roads today.


RE: Thanks God
By Mint on 1/30/2013 2:26:33 PM , Rating: 2
2011 figures.

The Opel Ampera (Volt's Euro sister) alone got 7,000 preorders last year:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/22/volt-sister-car...

Gas is expensive there. EVs will take off there very soon.


RE: Thanks God
By Reclaimer77 on 1/30/2013 2:40:22 PM , Rating: 2
Gas has always been obscenely expensive in the EU. If EV's were going to take off anywhere, it should have been there. And yet despite many many 'viable' options being on the market, the EU has the same pitiful EV adoption rate as anywhere else.

Not only is gas taxed sky high in the EU, but ICE vehicles are taxed to hell and back.


RE: Thanks God
By Mint on 1/30/2013 3:21:37 PM , Rating: 2
Why are you talking in past tense? Are you afraid that the future may be bright for EVs, and want them to be shut down right now?

It IS taking off in various regions there:
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/01/07/strong-incent...
5% of Norway's total car sales after what, less than a year of decent options being available?

Just wait until Nissan starts actually selling the 2013 Leaf. A $6000 price cut is a big deal. What do you think would happen to Sentra sales if the price was $6000 higher? Maybe an 80% sales drop?


RE: Thanks God
By Reclaimer77 on 1/30/2013 6:30:40 PM , Rating: 1
Why do you have to see some sinister motive in what I said? Want EV's "shut down"? Huh? What the fuck.


RE: Thanks God
By Mint on 1/30/2013 7:47:11 PM , Rating: 2
Because you're saying "should have happened", i.e. EVs had their chance but didn't succeed (by your metric) so it's time to stop trying.

Plugin sales are growing and growing fast. Give them a chance, especially now that price reduction and competition are starting to kick in.


RE: Thanks God
By Reclaimer77 on 1/30/2013 7:55:02 PM , Rating: 2
Well of course when you tax the PISS out of one thing, but offer financial incentives for another competing thing, you'll see a shift in buying trends. Duh?

quote:
EVs had their chance but didn't succeed (by your metric) so it's time to stop trying.


Uhh no that's you projecting your feelings and opinions onto my statement.


RE: Thanks God
By toffty on 1/31/2013 12:43:53 PM , Rating: 2
When you say, "Financial incentives" are you talking about oil, natural gas, and corn ethanol? If that's the case then I completely agree! Get rid of the frackers. Get rid of the oil pipelines. Get rid of fuel-from-food!


RE: Thanks God
By Reclaimer77 on 1/31/2013 4:11:01 PM , Rating: 2
Do you realize without the tax revenue from oil and petroleum/gas etc etc, Government's around the world would collapse? Fact, not rhetoric.

Do me a favor but when EV's even come close to that level of economic benefit, give me a call.

Honestly I'm so tired of the "oil subsidy" lie pushed by Liberals. Any subsidy it's getting is completely overshadowed by the multi-billions it generates in tax revenue!

However I'm totally with you on the ethanol, obviously. That needs to go away.


RE: Thanks God
By Mint on 2/1/2013 9:54:45 AM , Rating: 2
I agree that the oil subsidy argument is pretty bogus in the grand scheme of things, but why are you using a double standard with EVs? The EV subsidy is such a tiny amount of money per year relative to size of the auto sector and the tax revenue it generates.

Where would nuclear power be without government investment to get it off the ground? It's not just research. Government rules to limit liability (and thus take on risk itself) is an enormous subsidy, because private insurance would charge through the roof for something that unproven back in the 50s/60s, and it would never get off the ground on its own.

It was a risk on the taxpayer's dollar, and it worked out. EVs are a similar risk, and there are big potential payoffs down the road. It's a completely different animal from the dubious road of wind/solar.


Since when is Norway part of the EU?
By BZDTemp on 1/30/2013 11:45:40 AM , Rating: 3
That's like saying Canada is part of the USA.

EU issue aside the EV sold per capita is interesting when comparing the sales figures since fx. there are roughly 16 times more people living in Germany than in Norway(81 million vs. 5 million). Simply out it shows that getting electric cars on the road can happen provided the right conditions and the EU move with charging stations could be a factor.

Cars like the Tesla S will help as well - from what I hear taxi companies here in Denmark are planing to try out the Tesla S (They usually run Mercedes E and S class cars).




RE: Since when is Norway part of the EU?
By Motoman on 1/30/2013 12:30:03 PM , Rating: 2
Well, Canada isn't actually "part" of the USA - but it is our hat. And therefore, kind of part of the overall ensemble.


RE: Since when is Norway part of the EU?
By BZDTemp on 1/30/2013 2:58:06 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Just like Norway is close the EU but not a member.


By ShieTar on 1/31/2013 4:39:48 AM , Rating: 2
Not that it matters the least bit, because every argument that can be made for all of the EU can be made for Norway and Switzerland just as well. Political, economical and social differences are rather minor.

I don't feel that is the case for Canada and the US. In a lot of ways, Canada seems to fall right between Europe and the US.


Great
By polybios on 1/30/2013 11:39:45 AM , Rating: 1
Thank you bureaucrats that you decide whats good for me. I'm too stupid to know that myself and pay for it. Here, have my money.




RE: Great
By ShieTar on 1/31/2013 4:50:31 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah, because if you really wanted a network of 500k powering stations to make EVs a viable option for anything else than your daily commute, you would have bought that network yourself. Like your grandfather one day decided that he is going to build himself a highway network all across his nation because he liked driving a car?

Seriously, making communal decisions is the whole point for having a community in the first place. If you don't like it, go move to some remote jungle area and spend your time hunting and gathering.


RE: Great
By Dr of crap on 1/31/2013 12:58:34 PM , Rating: 2
They, EV's, aren't selling - period.

"”We can finally stop the chicken and the egg discussion on whether infrastructure needs to be there before the large scale roll out of electric vehicles. With our proposed binding targets for charging points using a common plug, electric vehicles are set to hit the road in Europe,” said Action Connie Hedegaard, the European Commissioner for Climate."

Just like the US.
IF they were selling, then you'd need plugins for them. You can build 1000's of the plugins, but if they are no cars to use them...! And yes a few more will be sold because there are now plugins - A FEW. Right now the cost of onwership is TOO high for the average drivers. You cannot go against the money issue, because THAT will drive sales!


RE: Great
By polybios on 1/31/2013 2:16:49 PM , Rating: 2
Powering stations network can develop slowly and steadily without any central planing, if there is demand. Highway network wasn't build out of nowhere because "cars are good and people can't drive through forrest!", it evolved from dirt roads to roads to highways because of increasing demand.


Funny Europeans
By Strunf on 1/30/2013 12:43:44 PM , Rating: 2
I find it quite funny that with one hand they want to reduce the use of Nuclear power and with the other they want to increase the use of Electricity, they probably think some kind of miracle will happen and solar panels will finally work at night while all our vehicles are charging.




RE: Funny Europeans
By ShieTar on 1/31/2013 4:45:55 AM , Rating: 1
They probably know that the combined peak output of solar and wind power stations already exceeds 100% of the overall power use, and would like to have a lot of car batteries connected to the grid over the lunch hour when solar power output is maximum.

Worst case scenario is that you burn the saved fuel to generate the electricity. Best case scenario is that every EV "gas" station manages to get by with its own set of solar and/or wind power generators.


!!!!!!!!!!!!
By HelenaSmithe22 on 1/30/2013 7:48:26 PM , Rating: 2
Sadie. I agree that Fred`s rep0rt is impressive... yesterday I picked up themselves a audi since I been earnin $7611 this - 5 weeks past and more than 10-k this past-munth. this is actually my favourite job I have ever done. I actually started nine months/ago and almost straight away started making a nice at least $80 per-hr. I went to this website,, Great60.comCHECK IT OUT




Only questions are
By FITCamaro on 1/30/2013 7:57:26 PM , Rating: 2
What will they try to fine Microsoft for now and how much to pay for them.




Not a problem
By Beenthere on 1/30/13, Rating: -1
RE: Not a problem
By Dr. Kenneth Noisewater on 1/30/2013 12:11:39 PM , Rating: 5
And as soon as all the subsidies, eminent domain, etc for all the hydrocarbon infrastructure and businesses over the last hundred plus years, plus all of the military spending that was devoted to protecting access to hydrocarbon supplies during that same time frame is repaid with interest and adjusted for inflation, we'll get right on the EV subsidies.


RE: Not a problem
By Strunf on 1/30/2013 12:37:54 PM , Rating: 1
You do realize 1/3 or even 1/2 of the price you pay for gas is actually... TAXES! I'm pretty sure these taxes alone are high enough to sponsor any wars needed to secure oil fields.


RE: Not a problem
By Spuke on 1/30/2013 1:38:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
plus all of the military spending that was devoted to protecting access to hydrocarbon supplies during that same time frame is repaid with interest and adjusted for inflation
How much oil do we get from Iraq?


RE: Not a problem
By Motoman on 1/30/2013 12:56:03 PM , Rating: 2
I'm under the impression that the primary reason gas is so much more expensive in Europe is because they tax it much more heavily.

So, in that light, using the "high cost" of gas as a basis for putting in all this EV infrastructure is really a red herring.

Otherwise, though, yes...the whole subsidization of this boondoggle is silly.


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