Print 42 comment(s) - last by KateHiggs22.. on Feb 1 at 2:51 PM

Federal judge says Samsung had reasonable reason to believe that Apple's patents were invalid

It's been a rough couple weeks for Apple, Inc. (AAPL).  Word is that the company is losing its once tight grip on suppliers and carriers, which allowed it to squeeze profit margins to over 44 percent -- and outlandish figure.  But now the margins are coming back down to Earth (slowly) and investors are hammering its stock and questioning its long term future amid more ambitious competitive hardware.

And cracks continue to accumulate in Apple's seemingly resounding court win over rival smartphone maker Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (KSC:005930).  U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California Judge Lucy Koh made a pivotal modification [PDF] to the jury verdict this week, siding with Samsung and nullifying the ruling that five of the patents in the case were "willfully" infringed on.

The decision, which will likely be appealed by Apple, is critical as it prevents Apple from multiplying the $1.05B USD in damages to $3B USD or more.  What's perhaps even more critical is why Samsung won.  

Samsung's legal team successfully convinced Judge Koh that while their firm was aware of Apple's patents, they had a firm belief they were invalid, hence were not willfully infringing on them in a legal sense.  Judge Koh bought that argument; the fact that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office has filed preliminary invalidation rulings regarding two of the key Apple utility patents involved in the case likely had a little something to do with that decision.

Judge Koh
Judge Koh punished Apple with a painful ruling this week. [Image Source: IB Times]

About the only bad news for Samsung was that 10 of the 15 claims on its '941 patent, a 3G "fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory" (FRAND) standards patent.  That invalidation could cut royalties to Samsung, but Apple wasn't found by the jury to infringe on that patent in the first place, so the damage to the phonemaker in the context of the case is minimal.

Given the recent invalidations and her willingness to nullify certain aspects of the jury's infringement verdict, many observers expect Judge Koh to trim the damages Samsung owes Apple.  If that happens it will be a major blow to Apple's largely fizzled legal campaign to "ban" Android and prove that the rival "stole" its technology.

Source: SBNation [The Verge] [PDF]

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By Cheesew1z69 on 1/30/2013 12:49:00 PM , Rating: 5
Some common sense from this Judge...

RE: Finally....
By deltaend on 1/30/2013 1:10:27 PM , Rating: 5
I'm fairly amazed that Koh has landed on this side of this issue... she came out of the gate ready to crucify Samsung without hearing evidence. Perhaps this is simply due to having her eyes slowly opened in the court room.

RE: Finally....
By augiem on 1/30/2013 1:59:29 PM , Rating: 5
Don't think so. I think Koh started to realize she better tone back her bias after that mock of a trial where she ordered Samsung to destroy their records showing prior art developed internally and never to reveal them to anyone in any future trial. That was the nail in the coffin for me. She showed her true colors. It's absurd she isn't under investigation for that.

RE: Finally....
By augiem on 1/30/2013 2:04:22 PM , Rating: 2
And let's not forget the upholding of the ban on the Samsung devices that were found NOT to infringe on Apple's patents by the jury. She's just trying to come out looking a little bit cleaner.

RE: Finally....
By maugrimtr on 1/31/2013 11:16:30 AM , Rating: 1
Koh never ordered Samsung to destroy anything. That's just bull**it.

RE: Finally....
By retrospooty on 1/30/2013 3:12:45 PM , Rating: 3
Yup... Looking more and more like the inevitable appeal will make her courtroom look like a joke, she hardened up. Todays thing doesn't matter though. In the end only the appeal at a higher level will matter.

RE: Finally....
By Mint on 1/30/2013 7:29:42 PM , Rating: 2
Do you have a link for this?

I tried googling it, and all I found was another comment by you.

IMO, late filing of Samsung's prior art evidence was done so intentionally. Samsung wanted to save it to be used as grounds for an appeal, but tried to make the jury aware of it anyway. All that really matters for Samsung (and me, incidentally) is that Apples's dumber patents don't get upheld and Samsung's clearly unique current phones lineup didn't get banned, and that's turning out to be the case.

RE: Finally....
By augiem on 1/30/2013 7:50:40 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know where I originally read it but I quickly searched and found these two:

RE: Finally....
By Mint on 1/31/2013 7:57:12 AM , Rating: 2
The decryptedtech link is just some blogger making the same rash conclusions you are. The DailyTech link says this:
The federal judge ordered Samsung's copies of the evidence be destroyed, never to be seen by jurors or the public.
Jurors are not kept in a hermetically sealed box. Koh wanted inadmissible evidence to be kept from the public so that it didn't taint the jury. She wasn't asking for the source of the evidence to be destroyed. She wanted Samsung's presentation of it to be destroyed, and for them to stop leaking this info to the public during the trial.

RE: Finally....
By euclidean on 2/1/2013 10:56:22 AM , Rating: 2
Regardless - why not?

Evidence is evidence if it is legit (I'd understand if there was no proof that it truly was prior art, but my understanding of this situation is that it was proof, and legit).

Whether it was copies or the original source, it should have been available. Are you not allowed to add evidence throughout a trial? I mean, I'm not a legal expert, or even amateur, so my legal knowledge is that of what I've seen in TV shows/movies and/or read. Why were they blocked from providing more evidence?

RE: Finally....
By augiem on 1/30/2013 7:52:09 PM , Rating: 2
So it's not about the late filing. She had a right to deny the evidence for this trial, but not to order it destroyed.

RE: Finally....
By Mint on 1/31/2013 8:04:18 AM , Rating: 2
You have to give me something a lot more concrete to prove to me that "she ordered Samsung to destroy their records showing prior art developed internally and never to reveal them to anyone in any future trial".

Neither of your links state this. Before you provide another one, make sure it's a reputable source, not some blogger giving his opinion.

RE: Finally....
By bill.rookard on 1/30/2013 2:15:58 PM , Rating: 1
Indeed. Nice to see someone having some sense here and applying logic... kudos to the judge. Now if only someone could get control of Eastern Texas... :-/

RE: Finally....
By Beavermatic on 1/30/2013 4:22:34 PM , Rating: 2
After some of her biased initial Pro-Apple rulings, there was some serious shouts and screams calling for an impeachment on her. No doubt she quickly changed her attitude when the job was on the line.

RE: Finally....
By Tony Swash on 1/30/13, Rating: -1
RE: Finally....
By retrospooty on 1/30/2013 5:03:30 PM , Rating: 2
That is really funny coming from a man who created a login at a tech website for the sole purpose of defending a company.

RE: Finally....
By Tony Swash on 1/30/13, Rating: -1
RE: Finally....
By rudolphna on 1/30/2013 6:13:51 PM , Rating: 4
First of all you dumbass, that's the iphones home screen, and not the androids. Second of all, I think that being able to copyright Friggin ICONS is a fucking STUPID idea. ICONS! Why don't you come up with something better? Because guess what, WINDOWS had Icons before IOS did. As did other companies. Stop being such an apple fanboy apologist and open your eyes to reality. How about we compare two modern phones? Iphone and the (superior) Galaxy SIII?

RE: Finally....
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/30/2013 6:24:43 PM , Rating: 2
Meanwhile in the real world, something you clearly don't live in, only a moron would think those are the same.

RE: Finally....
By insurgent on 1/30/2013 6:38:49 PM , Rating: 4
Oh my god you're such a tool, as if Apple never copied anything.

And that's a freakin' app drawer compared to a home screen, god forbid Samsung tried to make the icons consistent, like every other icon themes that existed for decades.

RE: Finally....
By Joofville on 1/31/2013 12:35:34 AM , Rating: 1
The one on the left seams to have a cleaner, more crisp and modern UI.

RE: Finally....
By retrospooty on 1/31/2013 7:16:39 AM , Rating: 2
Well, that and they Photoshopped the big Samsung logo across the top. What a load of BS

RE: Finally....
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/31/2013 8:16:55 AM , Rating: 2
LOL! Didn't even notice that from TonyDouches link. Quite pathetic someone had to photochop the Samsung out to try to make them look like each other.

I wouldn't put it past Tony to do something like that...

RE: Finally....
By retrospooty on 1/31/2013 12:23:53 PM , Rating: 2
I know right... When I first glanced at it, I thought it was from ... Look at the link again. It's actually

In other words its just some edited pic some clown posted to make things appear different than they are.


RE: Finally....
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/31/2013 12:35:59 PM , Rating: 1
Kind like like how Apple photo-chopped pics to make things appear different, in which, they should have been thrown out of the courtroom immediately. If it was any Joe-shcmoe, they would have been tossed out, and potentially put in jail for FRAUD.

RE: Finally....
By retrospooty on 1/31/2013 1:15:45 PM , Rating: 2
Yup... Sounds like they cant make decisions based on facts, so they had to make facts based on decisions. ;)

RE: Finally....
By retrospooty on 1/31/2013 7:30:20 AM , Rating: 2
Nice job with an edited photo wiping the giant Samsung Logo across the top. Cult of Mac indeed.

This is why no-one believes anything you say Tony. You regularly get caught spreading disinformation. I guess you do "think different" if different = not reality.

RE: Finally....
By maugrimtr on 1/31/2013 11:22:36 AM , Rating: 2
I think opinions about Koh's bias are stupid. It's far more likely that commentators are biased against Apple.

We all, except for Tony, know that Apple's patents are largely obvious stuff that should never ever have been capable of being patents in the first place. However, they WERE patented. Koh has little choice after that but to hold Samsung's feet to the fire over their infringement. Samsung's correct course of action is to prove non-willful infringement (i.e. patents are obviously rubbish which Koh AGREED with) and work on getting them invalidated so that it can then move to have any compensation to Apple reversed.

RE: Finally....
By Reclaimer77 on 1/31/2013 4:19:18 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. You know what's so beautiful about this situation? Apple has become their own worst enemy. They could have negotiated for modest royalties on these bogus patents and turned a tidy profit. Instead they perused a righteous legal battle while standing on the quicksand of their questionable patents. With such vigor that's it's actually causing the legitimacy of these patents to be called into questions in the courts Oops!!

RE: Finally....
By retrospooty on 2/1/2013 9:10:57 AM , Rating: 2
"They could have negotiated for modest royalties on these bogus patents and turned a tidy profit. Instead they perused a righteous legal battle while standing on the quicksand of their questionable patents."

Exactly. I think they were hoping to get bans implemented to avoid Android taking over the mobile space like PC took over the PC space... good luck with that. LOL

There is a few ways to dominate a market. 1. Make a product that is far better than anything else out there. 2. Make your product cheaper than the competition. From 2007 to 1011 Apple was 1, but now Apple is neither and Android is both.

RE: Finally....
By StormyKnight on 1/30/2013 11:46:47 PM , Rating: 2
Ah, resulting to ad hominems. Couldn't find anything intelligent to say Tony? Or did you run out of links to paste?

"If you mod me down, I will become more insightful than you can possibly imagine." -- Slashdot

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