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Lenovo's Horizon will start at $1,700

We have seen large, multi-touch table PC concepts in the past from companies like Microsoft. More recently, we've seen Sony tackle the sector with the Vaio Tap 20.
 
Now, Lenovo is looking to expand its presence in your living room with the 27" IdeaCentre Horizon Table PC. The Horizon can lay on a flat surface (like a table or floor) where multiple users can gather around and interact with the touch interface.
 
Horizon supports simultaneous 10-finger touch, and even comes with a few cool peripherals to use including E-dice for card-based games and four joysticks (Lenovo currently has backing from Electronic Arts and Ubisoft for games with Horizon support).

 
When not being used in table mode, the Horizon can easily convert into a regular 27" desktop PC (1920x1080 resolution).
 
The Horizon runs Windows 8 Pro, packs in a third-generation Intel Core i7 processor, up to a NVIDIA GeForce GT 620M graphics card with 1GB of memory, up to 8GB of DDR3 memory, and up to a 1TB HDD. A 64GB SSD can be optionally added. Other features include stereo speakers with Dolby Home Theater v4, Bluetooth and 802.11n, 720p webcam, 6-in-1 media reader, and USB 3.0 support.

 
Thankfully, the Horizon includes an integrated battery so that families can gather around and interact with the device and not trip over wires. However, don't expect to go cordless for too long -- the integrated battery is only good for a maximum of two hours before you have to go scrambling to find the power cord.
 
“We've seen technology shifts across the four screens, from the desktop to the laptop, tablet and smartphone, and yet, while people have more computing power than ever before, there is still room for technologies like Horizon that bring people together," said Peter Hortensius, president, Product Group, Lenovo. "Horizon makes personal computing interpersonal computing with shared, collaborative experiences among several people,”

 
Lenovo's Horizon Table PC will not launch until early summer, and will feature a price tag starting at $1,699.


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RE: Wow... just wow
By TakinYourPoints on 1/6/2013 8:26:11 PM , Rating: 3
I do agree that the specs are quite poor compared to most all-in-one desktops. A comparably priced iMac has significantly higher specs and display resolution. Even the poorly valued Dell XPS 27 (also with weaker specs) has a better screen and a touchscreen to boot.

However, this is also a very different kind of device. All-in-ones have a higher associated cost in the same way laptops do. Throw in a big ten-point multitouch display and the cost goes up even further. The low volume of units that this will sell probably also factors into the price.

However, this isn't what I came here to say. Your price-focused post reminded me of this recent article by Paul Thurrott of Windows Supersite. He wrote an excellent piece on why Windows 8 sales did so poorly, and based on data it was all about the lack of ultra-cheap devices like netbooks: http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/explaining-windo...

quote:
But buried even in this single public statement is the clue we need to explain Windows 8’s slow start.

It’s the netbook.

I’ve written—and spoken about, on podcasts—about how Windows 7, somewhat miraculously and/or suspiciously, was able to maintain a steady selling rate of approximately 20 million units per month over its three year lifespan. And I’ve furthered that Windows 8 needs to reach that figure, at a minimum, because it targets two markets, that for PCs and that for tablets. To be truly successful, Windows 8 needs to sell far more than 20 million licenses a month.

The funny thing is, we’ve held up Windows 7 as the gold standard when it comes to Windows versions. It was non-controversial, lauded for cleaning up the Windows Vista “mess” (whether real or perceived), and is still generally regarded as a high-water mark of sorts. Those who pan Windows 8 invariably compare it, unfavorably, to Windows 7, and wonder why Microsoft simply couldn’t have made another Windows 7 instead. But it’s simple.

Windows 7 was a lie.

See, that 20 million figure—which I believe to have been massaged from a bookkeeping standpoint—was unfairly bolstered by sales of low-cost PCs, primarily netbooks.

...

It’s not pat to say that the Windows PC market went for volume over quality, because it did: Many of those 20 million Windows 7 licenses each month—too many, I think—went to machines that are basically throwaway, plastic crap. Netbooks didn’t just rejuvenate the market just as Windows 7 appeared, they also destroyed it from within: Now consumers expect to pay next to nothing for a Windows PC. Most of them simply refuse to pay for more expensive Windows PCs.


Part of the problem is the reception to Windows 8 UI changes, I'm not a big fan myself, but an even bigger problem is the death of the notebook and Windows 8 being targeted at inherently more expensive touch-screen hardware. Devices like the Lenovo "tabletop" PC in this article.

quote:
Getting people to pay more for a product they were previously getting inexpensively is a tough one.


Many customers are conditioned three ways. One is that they won't spend above a certain amount on a Windows OEM machine: cheap. The bulk of the Windows market is on cheap throwaway devices like netbooks and econoboxes in offices and call centers. Two is that if they are going to get a machine with higher end specs and build quality, they are going to get a Mac. They accounted for a third of notebook sales in the US last year and over 90% of OEM sales over $1000. Three is that if they want to really spend money on a PC, they will just build it themselves. I've built my own PCs since the mid-90s and I sure as heck won't be buying from Dell or whoever anytime soon.

Anyway, all three scenarios are bad for companies like Dell, HP, etc, and it will continue to be bad until they can convince people to spend more money on their higher end products.

Right now OEMs are in a spot lke when VW tried to get people to buy high end sedans with the Phaeton, but people just kept on buying BMWs and Mercedes instead. The problem for OEMs is even bigger though now that cheap netbooks are dead and expensive touchscreen devices is what they're supposed to be pushing.

Maybe they need to go back to low quality netbooks and forget touch, I don't know. Either way, Microsoft is in a tough spot selling a touchscreen focused OS to customers who don't want to spend money on the hardware.


RE: Wow... just wow
By karlostomy on 1/6/2013 9:39:04 PM , Rating: 3
Hey there TYP,

I felt compelled to downvote you for that post, reason being:

- it was a massive wall of text. Your point is lost in waffle, rhetoric and speculation, akin to FUD.

- you essentially just copied swaths of content from another website, where the link itself was already sufficent to make your point.

- Your commentary is predominantly off topic and unrelated to the article itself.

Taking the above into account, your post above appears to be a classic troll post, written to provoke an emotional reaction, on a separate topic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

I encourage other posters to refrain from engaging with TYP's post and thereby discourage such trolling behaviour.


RE: Wow... just wow
By retrospooty on 1/6/2013 10:22:39 PM , Rating: 2
ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding we have a winner!


RE: Wow... just wow
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/6/2013 10:36:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Taking the above into account, your post above appears to be a classic troll post, written to provoke an emotional reaction, on a separate topic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
This is exactly how most of his posts are. I have been saying he is a troll for a while now. Glad someone else finally called him out on it.


RE: Wow... just wow
By TakinYourPoints on 1/6/2013 10:43:03 PM , Rating: 2
I agree that the post could have been half the length, I just hammered it out and didn't edit it.

Otherwise I disagree, the points I bring up are entirely relevant. The number one complaint I see on this new hardware (outside of people unfairly rejecting the OS completely) is about the price of the hardware.

Thinking about it further I don't think the price is that bad, considering that it has ten-point multitouch. Same with the Surface Pro, a grand for that hardware and 128GB SSD isn't bad at all.

The problem isn't the hardware, it is that people are conditioned to pay less thanks to netbooks, unfairly I think, and IMO it is a worthwhile discussion given that Windows 8 is targeting more expensive touchscreen hardware.

If you get emotional about it then its your problem. It is entirely relevant given that the "this is too expensive" reaction to hardware like this (which is pretty cool IMO) is squeezing OEMs hard.


RE: Wow... just wow
By Pirks on 1/7/2013 12:59:10 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
expensive touchscreen devices is what they're supposed to be pushing
$500 for a clover trail tablet with windows 8 is expensive ?! for a device that can do whatever iPad can do and much more and sometimes even better (for example, games like Vendetta Online are head and shoulders above anything iPad can offer, eat this Apple lover :P you don't even have a slightest idea what games exist now for windows 8 and windows rt tablets), and for the same money? takin, are you even serious?


RE: Wow... just wow
By TakinYourPoints on 1/7/2013 1:51:11 AM , Rating: 1
Your information is incorrect. Clover Trail tablets, aside from not really being available yet (Asus and Lenovo still don't have release dates on theirs), have prices that start at around $650. Higher price than the Surface RT or the iPad, and far higher than the iPad Mini or the numerous Android tablets out there.

But forget about ARM based tablets, the important point is that it is more expensive than the $300-$400 netbooks and econoboxes that have driven Windows sales over the last couple years. I agree that the hardware is cool, but that doesn't matter when people like the post I responded to and many others are just going to complain about the price. All I see on boards are price complaints for anything that costs more than a Nexus 7, and its gonna hurt vendors.

Like the article said: "Getting people to pay more for a product they were previously getting inexpensively is a tough one."

This isn't about "love" or "hate", its pure numbers. Clover Trail tablets may be capable but the price doesn't help. On a side note, the WinRT app market not a plus right now. I'm running Windows 8 on my laptop and the WinRT store is anemic, much lower quality than what is on iOS. Its still all about Steam and Battlenet on Windows for me, and I sure as hell aren't playing Starcraft 2 or DOTA with a touchscreen...

I do think it is funny that quotes I took from one of the most pro-Microsoft blogs out there provoked such a response. Even funnier is that I'm on the same side as most of you, but I bring up the fact that many people complain about the additional price of touchscreen hardware because they've been conditioned to buy cheaper goods and people freak out.

In the end I WANT this cool hardware to sell, it encourages even better hardware for everyone, but I worry that the race to the bottom over the last few years is going to hurt that.


RE: Wow... just wow
By Pirks on 1/7/2013 2:14:23 AM , Rating: 2
What? $650? You don't know sh1t about the subject. Let me tell you about REAL world, ok? First, Clover Trail tablets start from $580 on newegg, second, iPad with less storage is more expensive, third, iPad games still suck if you compare them with heavy hitters on RT, like Vendetta Online, fourth, those Clover Trail tablets have same or better battery life compared to iPad, while providing better HD video viewing experience due to proper aspect ratio, especially on Surface. I compare those new Win 8 and Win RT tablets with iPad all the time because a lot of people ask me for recommendation when buying new hardware. After watching how tablets developed past couple of years I understood that tablets are where the money is, not the netbooks. MS is doing the right thing chasing high profit markets and leaving zero profit markets to Google, after all they make money selling stuff while Google can only compete on price, not on quality. Dropping netbook is the right thing, financially wise. Let Google have this market, because Google does not need any profit selling quality hardware, they are better off selling cheap crap.


RE: Wow... just wow
By TakinYourPoints on 1/7/2013 3:23:02 AM , Rating: 1
The few available ones I've found have been Acer's at $650 with the keyboard dock and HP's Envy x2 for $850, $300 more than most tablets or low-end notebooks.

Also, Vendetta Online is a third-rate EVE Online, I've played it. Give me a break, it isn't even up to snuff with Sentinel 3 or Galaxy On Fire 2, let alone better iOS games like Autumn Dynasty or Battle Of The Bulge (current fave). The selection and quality of iOS games are absolutely second to none in touchscreen mobile, which makes sense given how many developers it has. You're telling me that VO is better than what Epic, Crytek, or numerous others like PlayDek or Days Of Wonder are releasing? Ok.

And if we're playing normal Windows games then I'd rather do it on something beefier than a Clover Trail. I'll stick with my mobile i7 for that.

The important point though, which you keep on missing, is that Clover Trail tablets won't sell as well as the "cheap crap" (as you like to call it) simply because the same customers Microsoft and OEMs have targeted for years are used to paying less. Now they're being asked to spend more for 10" touchscreen hardware.

If someone has a choice between a Clover Trail tablet or a 15" laptop (low quality as it may be) that only costs $500, both running Windows 8 , what do you most are going to buy?

Tablet sales won't improve until prices for touchscreen and mobile components are driven down over time, and this is only because a segment of customers hate the (IMO completely justified) price of those products. Proof will be in sales numbers and all the forum complaints of high pricing.


RE: Wow... just wow
By Pirks on 1/7/2013 7:02:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The few available ones I've found have been Acer's at $650 with the keyboard dock and HP's Envy x2 for $850, $300 more than most tablets or low-end notebooks
Your opinion doesn't matter because there is a hard cold FACT of existence of a $500 Clover Trail tablet: http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/cgi-bin/redirect...

Your attempts at pretending those $500 Clover Trail tablets don't exits are futile, please stop pretending, ok?

What is Crytek making for iPad? Crysis?! LOL. Are you serious?

And I don't think your comparison of RTS and other genres versus VO which is space sim is anywhere near correct. There's still VO for RT and no VO for iOS. GoF 2 kinda compensates for that, I agree, but still... having decent tablet games for Android and RT but NOT iOS is telling.
quote:
the same customers Microsoft and OEMs have targeted for years are used to paying less
These customers defect to Google en masse, why chase them? Let Google have the poor non-paying customers who will watch ads, while MS has a slice of rich customers formerly belonging to Apple. More profit to MS this way.
quote:
If someone has a choice between a Clover Trail tablet or a 15" laptop that only costs $500, both running Windows 8, what do you think most are going to buy?
Big heavy laptop with 3 hours of battery life of small light tablet with 9 hour of battery life? That's a tough choice LOL. Of course most people would go for a tablet, since it's just as good for office/mail/web/video/casual gaming as a heavier laptop.
quote:
Tablet sales won't improve until prices for touchscreen and mobile components are driven down over time
iPhone sales did't improve either until prices for them were driven from $600 down to $200 over time. Same for iPad which started to sell better when they made crappier/cheaper mini version. So what's your point then? Are you just captain obvious or what? You state obvious things everybody here would agree with.

OK that was a compliment :)))


RE: Wow... just wow
By TakinYourPoints on 1/9/2013 12:31:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
These customers defect to Google en masse, why chase them? Let Google have the poor non-paying customers who will watch ads, while MS has a slice of rich customers formerly belonging to Apple. More profit to MS this way.


No, it means less profit to MS this way. Moving Windows licenses is the main thing that matters to them, not selling fewer tablets. If they give the low end away to Google then they're basically throwing away the hardware platform that got Windows 7 sales going at a staggering 20 million units per month.

Don't you get it? This isn't rocket science.

quote:
Big heavy laptop with 3 hours of battery life of small light tablet with 9 hour of battery life? That's a tough choice LOL. Of course most people would go for a tablet, since it's just as good for office/mail/web/video/casual gaming as a heavier laptop.


The tablet also costs more. This isn't a userbase that is concerned with quality, if they did then low cost laptops and netbooks wouldn't have sold well in the first place.

People in shops and all over user forums complain about tablet prices while bragging about some garbage $400 notebook they bought that can "do more" because it has a bad keyboard and a "real" OS. This isn't changing anytime soon, not when so many customers at the low end have been trained to know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

quote:
Same for iPad which started to sell better when they made crappier/cheaper mini version.


The iPad sold over 100 million units as of last year. It is as big a consumer electronics blockbuster as can be expected. Bigger than consoles and bigger/more profitable than the PC market. The iPad mini is gravy.


RE: Wow... just wow
By TakinYourPoints on 1/7/2013 3:27:12 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
while providing better HD video viewing experience due to proper aspect ratio, especially on Surface.


16:9 is crap on 23" desktop monitors, it is crap on 13" notebooks, and it is crap on 10" and 7" screens. More vertical room in landscape mode is better for web browsing and applications, not less.

If all you do is watch video then I guess its fine, but unless I'm on a 27" 1440p desktop monitor then I want nothing to do with 16:9.


RE: Wow... just wow
By ilt24 on 1/7/2013 10:27:48 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
have prices that start at around $650.


The Acer Iconia W510 starts at $500.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/406384/32GB_ICO...


RE: Wow... just wow
By Cheesew1z69 on 1/7/2013 10:33:57 AM , Rating: 2
That's an Atom CPU...


RE: Wow... just wow
By ilt24 on 1/7/2013 12:16:01 PM , Rating: 2
yes, it's a clover trail tablet, which is what was being discussed.


RE: Wow... just wow
By DBissett on 1/7/2013 9:11:54 AM , Rating: 2
Interesting point you bring up about consumer behavior/expectations. My anecdotal observations agree with your comments and are derived from parent experience. We have an 11 yr old, so we see lots of kids entering middle school. They are buying ipad minis like crazy, less so ipads, because they do a good job and they are low on the price scale. Many families have multiple kids in middle and high school. Add to that parent's own desire for their own devices, in addition to phones for everybody, and you see this huge market for cheaper devices, not more expensive. Most families who want 2 or 3 or more tablets as this market heats up have to focus on cheap ones and will limit their purchases if they're too expensive, thereby limiting Win 8 sales as well.

Dave


RE: Wow... just wow
By TakinYourPoints on 1/9/2013 1:41:06 AM , Rating: 2
Real world sales figures have reflected this behavior, and now the CEOs of numerous OEMs have been saying the same things over the last few days. The shift in the hardware requirements for Windows 8 is going to change their bottom line in a big way, especially now that Intel is enforcing Ultrabook branding by requiring touchscreens.

I'm honestly surprised that this is such a controversial post but somehow it got the fanboys all worked up. The impact Win8 is having on hardware requirements, thus prices, thus Win8 sales, is so obvious. The fact that the same people running these companies says a lot, but I suppose that the expert opinions of idiot commentors like karlostomy and cheesewiz counts for a lot too.

/s


"Nowadays you can buy a CPU cheaper than the CPU fan." -- Unnamed AMD executive














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