DailyTech - Windows 8 Fails to Drive Significant New PC Sales

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Gadgets Windows 8 Fails to Drive Significant New PC Sales
Shane McGlaun (Blog) - December 24, 2012 8:40 AM

132 comment(s) - last by BillyBatson.. on Dec 29 at 1:32 PM

A turnaround in the PC industry isn't expected to happen anytime soon

In years, the launch of a new Windows operating system meant that computer makers could count on a nice uptick in sales as people bought new computers. With the launch of Windows 8, the same boost in PC sales seen in years past hasn't occurred.

The New York Times reports that customers continue to turn away from new Microsoft gadgets such as the Surface RT tablet, which has seen disappointing sales numbers so far. One consumer that the NYT talked to, named Claude Ballard, said that he was intrigued by the "eye-catching design Windows 8" but not enough to purchase a new computer.

Overall computer sales during the holiday season have been disappointing. Many consumers continue to purchase tablets which run iOS or Android. Weak PC sales during the holiday season shows that Microsoft and other companies that depend on the computer industry won't see a major turnaround in sales anytime soon.

Acer president for the Americas division Emmanuelle Fromont has said that sales of Acer computers running Windows 8 have been lower-than-expected. He cites the operating system's unfamiliar design as one point that appears to be making consumers cautious.

“There was not a huge spark in the market,” Mr. Fromont said. “It’s a slow start, there’s no question.”

“I think everybody would have hoped for a better start,” said Stephen Baker, an analyst at research firm NPD. “The thing is, this market is not the same market that Windows 7 or Vista or even XP launched into.”

NPD estimates that within the U.S., 13% fewer Windows devices were sold from late October when Windows 8 launched through the first week in December compared to the same period of last year with Windows 7 machines.

Source: NYT

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The biggest issue

By Labotomizer on 12/24/2012 9:13:43 AM , Rating: -1

There is a demand for Windows 8 systems. This has been fairly well documented. The problem is the demand is for touch enabled devices. The interest isn't the for the traditional designs. And yet it's still common to walk into the store and see a touch-enabled All-in-One system running Windows 7.

I think the real problem is that OEMs didn't expect the demand for touch enabled devices with Windows 8. And many people are waiting to get one of those instead of settling for a non-touch Windows 8 system. It's actually kind of surprising the interest that has been sparked in touch devices.

RE: The biggest issue

By Articuno on 12/24/2012 9:18:30 AM , Rating: 5

Yes, the reason why Microsoft had to cut their Surface orders in half was because people want them oh so much.

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RE: The biggest issue

By Labotomizer on 12/24/12, Rating: -1

By Labotomizer on 12/24/2012 9:27:24 AM , Rating: -1

Effect does not always equate to cause. Surface orders are down because of a lack of retail availability, not because people don't want them. They just want to be able to use them. There are around 60 MS stores where Surface was sold, including the pop up stores. People would go into Best Buy or Walmart and want to see Surface and it wasn't available there. It's entirely realistic to expect someone to want to check out a $600 device before they drop the money on it. Often times it requires a long commute to get to a MS store. Or you could go to any mall and get an Apple store. It's a big problem. Now that BB is selling the Surface, along with Staples and I forget who else, it should do better. But it might be late. They need to ammend new outlets on their commercials.

Plus, my comment wasn't related to the Surface. It was related to the All-in-Ones and the laptops with the touch screens. There have been numerous articles from reputable sources stating a high demand that can't be met for these devices. Just not for traditional PCs and Laptops running Windows 8. The OEMs didn't expect that.

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RE: The biggest issue

By Articuno on 12/24/2012 10:19:43 AM , Rating: 1

That isn't a valid reason either; Microsoft spent $400 million advertising it. People just don't want a $400 tablet with a poor quality keyboard and inferior OS slapped on top of it, is it really that hard to understand?

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RE: The biggest issue

By damianrobertjones on 12/24/2012 5:02:27 PM , Rating: 3

Billions of people want tablets and as I own a 64Gb surface I know that. The keyboard is also quite good.

Maybe you're just trying to ustify your 'narrow' point of view

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RE: The biggest issue

By macca007 on 12/25/2012 3:00:24 AM , Rating: 2

Looking to upgrade my old ipad 1 but seriously no way I would consider surface or a new ipad to be honest, Android tablets seem to be the craze! Android OS is not shit anymore, I just dumped my iphone 3gs for a galaxy note 2 and Jelly Bean absolutely shits on iOS, Looking at Windows 8 it looks like not many are interested in it. I still don't see any reason to upgrade my desktop to Windows 8 either, Hate to say it but MS screwed up this round, Windows 9 will be where it's at!

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/25/2012 6:01:57 AM , Rating: 1

I understand Android phones as they offer things like larger screens. It is at the expense of better applications or faster hardware but it is an ergonomic choice that I get. Android tablets make zero sense to me right now, not until developer support and the hardware catches up. The iPad 4 absolutely smokes everything else out there and the gulf in tablet app selection and quality only continues to widen. Again, I don't get the appeal of Android tablets given the state that they're in. I know several people with Android phones that also own iPads, and its mainly for the reasons I mentioned.

The problems with WinRT tablets are spot on though, lackluster hardware and developer support that will take time to catch up. The latter is purely based on adoption, because Microsoft's SDK is actually quite good,

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RE: The biggest issue

By retrospooty on 12/25/2012 7:56:31 AM , Rating: 1

"I don't get the appeal of Android tablets "

Of course you dont. You are an Apple fan. Duh.

For those of us that prefer OS over apps, he said it above, and this is the part that you dont get "Jelly Bean absolutely shits on iOS". IOS is done. It's old and haggard and BADLY in need of a facelift and some new features. OF course you dont see it and of course you dont agree, but then again, you are here to talk up Apple so dont bother.

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RE: The biggest issue

By Donkey2008 on 12/25/2012 1:17:59 PM , Rating: 2

Give the world a break Android fanboys. Many people like simplicity and stability. iOS developer support is solid, the app selection is solid, the entire experience is solid. Why all of you Android fanboys constantly get your panties in a bunch and start hurling insults over iOS is beyond me. Get a life.

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RE: The biggest issue

By xti on 12/25/2012 2:06:20 PM , Rating: 2

i really like my android phone. I hate that new games get to to iOS months before they hit android. Simpsons tapped, FF4, etc.

so as an android phone user, i am actually discouraged to get an android tab, because I had already had discontent with things on the google play store. I dont want alternative apps, i want the stupid one my wife has on her ipad. Or i want a specific game to kill 5 minutes of my time on the toilet.

apple store > google play, maybe not by a ton like it used to be, but its still frustrating.

and wtf @ kies. iTunes runs circles around it and everyone knows how iTunes is horrible. its like the thing no one ever wants to admit.

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/25/2012 6:14:26 PM , Rating: 2

Pretty much everything I have on my iPad is not on Android tablets, and most of it is apparently never going to Android. Days Of Wonder and numerous other German games (gotta have my Ticket To Ride and Dominion), my photo apps, the awesome game SolForge that I'm beta testing right now, all of the Epic games, Ascension, Reeder, Alien Blue (better for browsing Reddit than even a desktop web browser), and a bunch of other apps like it. Games like Baldur's Gate still don't have a release date on Android even though its supposed to be coming eventually.

Hardware is another thing, the iPad 4 benches faster than the iPad 3 (2x faster GPU performance), and the iPad 3 was faster than any Android tablet on the market. I dunno man, the gap in apps and performance is so wide right now, bigger than I ever thought it would be.

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RE: The biggest issue

By ihateu3 on 12/26/2012 5:30:44 AM , Rating: 2

"and the iPad 3 was faster than any Android tablet on the market"

Um... So your saying the iPad 3 is faster than the Nexus 7????

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/26/2012 4:41:31 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Um... So your saying the iPad 3 is faster than the Nexus 7????

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6054/47745...

Yuuuuup

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RE: The biggest issue

By dark matter on 12/26/2012 7:58:31 AM , Rating: 2

Sure, Kies is terrible.

How about using something else then. Even file manager.

What are your options with Apple. iTunes, or, ummmm, iTunes.

On Android you can use anything.

Do try harder.

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RE: The biggest issue

By retrospooty on 12/26/2012 10:13:40 AM , Rating: 2

Exactly. That is one of the great things about android that you cant do with Apple. Plug in your phone to a computer where the flash rom detects as any USB flash drive and assigns a drive letter to copy files - any files. You dont need iTunes or any app to get files, musinc, whatever to your phone.

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RE: The biggest issue

By jimbojimbo on 12/26/2012 12:52:12 PM , Rating: 2

You don't even need to do that really. Many file managers support SMB or CIF shares so you can just connect to any share on the network and copy right away. I use Sync Me to just automatically sync various folders on my tablet to my NAS so I don't have to do anything really. Android gives us amazing flexibility!
Every Apple fan just goes on about the number of tablet optimized apps they have compared to Android but it's an invalid argument. Yes, Sync Me isn't optimized for tablets but it works JUST FINE as it is. Who cares if it isn't? The apps that need to be optimized for tablets are getting updated so I don't think that argument is valid at all. All the apps that I would like to be optimized for tablets already are so I'm completely satisfied and I'm a power user.
By the way, with the SPen the Note 10.1 is incredibly handy and can do many things that no pad can do.

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/26/2012 4:49:52 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
You don't even need to do that really. Many file managers support SMB or CIF shares so you can just connect to any share on the network and copy right away. I use Sync Me to just automatically sync various folders on my tablet to my NAS so I don't have to do anything really. Android gives us amazing flexibility!

And there are apps that do the exact same thing on iPad, they've been around for quite a while. It makes sense given that tablet development is so big on the platform. I don't see you and retrospooty are claiming these "unique" apps and features for Android when they've been on the iPad since around when it was released.

I expect ignorance here but come on, at least try to know what you're talking about before arguing about it...

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/26/2012 4:43:55 PM , Rating: 2

As you keep ignoring, "there's an app for that".

Look at what two seconds searching found, and there are other apps like it: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/usb-flash-drive-+/...

What's your next excuse?

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RE: The biggest issue

By retrospooty on 12/26/2012 9:12:56 PM , Rating: 2

That was kind of the point. you need to go out and find an app and download it just to copy a freaking file to your device.

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RE: The biggest issue

By xti on 12/27/2012 4:38:07 PM , Rating: 1

people still copy files to their phone? thats such a dying "OMG you cant do that on iphone" things now...

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RE: The biggest issue

By xti on 12/27/2012 4:36:29 PM , Rating: 2

i do use something else. i use media monkey. its awkward but it works. meh.

and you can use pretty much those winamp style programs for BOTH apple and android phones...you are not limited to itunes for apple products, thats just a lie. I was however limited to kies for the Jelly Bean update because ATT i guess didnt allow ota.

they are just things that the mass apple haters blatantly hide. i love my gs3...im just not gonna be a hater for the sake of a phone...

do try hardererer.

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RE: The biggest issue

By xti on 12/27/2012 4:36:29 PM , Rating: 2

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/25/2012 6:04:02 PM , Rating: 3

Dude, I even gave reasons why someone would take and Android phone over an iOS one and you still freak out over my post.

The are objective disadvantages to Android tablets right now, namely slower hardware and poor developer support. JB being "superior" for no specific reasons aside from "hurr durr Apple" doesn't change any of that. A "facelift", funny that you look at the superficial rather than the practical.

I own hardware from loads of companies and have bought into nearly every ecosystem. You on the other hand have a very hard time seeing past anything with the Android name on it.

Btw, who buys an OS without good developer support? Do you also run Linux at home?

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RE: The biggest issue

By retrospooty on 12/25/2012 6:54:58 PM , Rating: 2

First off, I didnt "freak out". I am simply responding to your usual one sided view of things. You said "Android tablets make zero sense to me right now" as you lamented as if there is no reason anyone would buy an Android tablet. There are reasons. Not that Android tablets are better. In that arena iPad certainly has the advantage in apps and GPU, but that isnt the entire picture. If one were looking for the best tablet in the $500 range, iPad is it, easily... But look at other areas and Android tabs do have a place and a good one at that. Most people want internet, email and a few apps, maybe e-reader. A $200 Google Nexus does the job perfectly at 40% the price. Not that its a better tablet, but for what most people do, its a WAY better value. It has a place that is all I am saying, while also commenting on your constant bias that gets tiring. I know you are bright enough and well informed enough and know the whole picture, yet you still paint with Apple centered goggles.

"I own hardware from loads of companies and have bought into nearly every ecosystem. You on the other hand have a very hard time seeing past anything with the Android name on it."

I do? Really? You know about zilch about me, so dont make that assumption. Again, I post in favor of Android for 2 reasons. 1. When responding to you, I am always pointing a counter to your bias and 2. Right now, and I do mean right now only, Android is the best smartphone platform out period. Hands down by a large margin for power users. For beginners and people that play games, iPhone is better. I hold no favor or allegiance for android, the second something better comes out I will buy it.

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/25/2012 8:23:04 PM , Rating: 2

Fair enough on the tablets, my head was in the 10" range. For smaller $200 tablets, absolutely, devices like the Nexus 7 are totally legit. Of course, if reading is the primary use then I'd recommend a Kindle Paperwhite over anything else. My favorite tech gadget still, it does only one thing but it does it SO well. :)

quote:
Android is the best smartphone platform out period.

As usual, debatable. You get larger screens, which again is a legit reason to get one. You're also getting hardware with less battery life (an iPhone 5 gets 2x the LTE/wifi browsing time of a GS3 or Note 2) and slower CPU/GPU performance (close enough in the high end to not matter as much, obviously, but then again Android doesn't have many apps that push the hardware either). Apps really are the big thing, and so long as iOS continues to be the #1 target development platform I'll stick with it.

Fiddling with the UI is secondary to me, I actually like to use my stuff.

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RE: The biggest issue

By retrospooty on 12/25/2012 8:30:40 PM , Rating: 2

Ok, agreed to some of that... Stop hand picking battery benchmarks and throw in support for SD card, NFC, flexible res, removable battery, mini HDMI, micro USB and you have a deal =)

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/26/2012 5:05:52 PM , Rating: 2

Ok, how about I hand pick performance benchmarks and app quality instead? ;)

Losing an SD card slot and removable battery (who needs one when you get double the battery life on an iPhone?) are more than acceptable compromises.

Again, unless you need a big screen like on the Note 2 or are on a limited budget and get a Nexus 4, then I don't see the point. All I see are huge downgrades otherwise.

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RE: The biggest issue

By retrospooty on 12/26/2012 9:16:54 PM , Rating: 2

Well I have to hand it to you, you're absolutely right. If you selectively ignore all the negatives of Apple and concentrate on all the negatives of Android and likewise ignore all the positives of Android and concentrate on all the positives of Apple then by all means Apple is the best platform. Solid sound logic you have there. =)

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RE: The biggest issue

By ihateu3 on 12/26/2012 5:49:11 AM , Rating: 1

Lets also not forget all those generations of Apple products that did not even offer LTE. Thats a super new technology to them!!! Shit the original iPhone did not even support 3g, while its competitor (HTC Touch) did... Actually the iPhone was the competitor to the HTC Touch, as the HTC Touch came out prior, even with a touchscreen, you would imagine that even back then any smartphone user would need 3g, and on Apple's end, trying to compete with a 3g smartphone without including it on your own offerings is just unthinkable, and not very innovative...

When they finally add NFC to the iPhone (just like LTE, how many years behind now?), Apple will claim innovation...

Apple needs a restructuring of their company. You cannot sue your way past real innovation forever, disregarding your own development, its suicidal.

Apple's real innovation was targeting the less techie crowd, that did not need all the extra power, features,replaceable battery, SD cards, etc. The crowd they targeted seen the device as a fashion accessory, and throw away product, buying the next version as soon as it came out for ultra new hipness and more storage (plus new battery, to their aging one). That is their innovation, they are very good at making a consumer product that anyone can use,and where very good at making ppl believe it was cool (they are losing that touch now). Those strong points are what they should be focusing on.

I still do not condone the way Apple does business...

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RE: The biggest issue

By retrospooty on 12/26/2012 10:00:45 AM , Rating: 2

"Apple's real innovation was targeting the less techie crowd"

LOL... I know.

I remember the press conference when they announced the iPhone5 and its new larger screen. So it goes from small 3.5 to widescreen 4 inch 16x9 format like every other phone out there and they say "one of the exiting new things we have is an additional row of icons the new screen proved space for (the crowds oohs and ahhs). Wow, what innovation. "Thank you Apple for providing us with another row of icons for the home screen, you are so amazing." ROFL.

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/26/2012 5:01:49 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Lets also not forget all those generations of Apple products that did not even offer LTE. Thats a super new technology to them!!! Shit the original iPhone did not even support 3g, while its competitor (HTC Touch) did

That is because LTE chips before this summer were battery draining pigs. If Apple put an LTE chipset in the iPhone 4S then it would have cut battery life in half from the iPhone 4. That would have been unacceptable given how important battery life is for them. They instead waited for 28nm LTE parts to be released and then they put them in the iPhone 5. The result is that the iPhone 5 has double the LTE browsing time of phones like the Galaxy S3: http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6330/50475...

The only other phones that did well were the HTC One X, which also uses the same LTE parts, and the huge Motorolas that make up for inefficient parts by using massive batteries.

LTE was almost unusable because of its massive drain on battery, but when Apple impliments it they do it in such a way that they get over eight hours of LTE browsing time with it, all while reducing the weight and volume of the device.

You have a very one-dimensional view of things if you can't recognize that execution matters at least as much as features. Who needs a replaceable battery when you get twice as much browsing time, as well as much higher performance (the iPhone 5 runs circles around everything else right now) and better applications in a smaller device?

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RE: The biggest issue

By ihateu3 on 12/26/2012 7:54:37 PM , Rating: 2

Why would it be an issue to allow the end user to replace the battery if they wanted to? Whats the issue with adding an SD card slot? And why have they not embraced NFC, obviously not because of any battery probs with it...

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/26/2012 9:14:21 PM , Rating: 2

Both replaceable battery enclosures and SD card slots increase the size of the device. The iPhone 5 barely has enough room for soldered on-board memory and an integrated battery, let alone ones with mounting and a cover. As for NFC, I'm assuming security is the biggest reason why it hasn't been used yet. Android is already packed with security holes and NFC is the latest one that has popped up.

Google for it and numerous articles like this pop up: http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/07/android-no...

Either way, if replaceable batteries and SD cards are on your must-have list then there are plenty of other phones out there. It is at the expense of performance, battery life, and developer support. Every platform has its pros and cons.

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RE: The biggest issue

By retrospooty on 12/26/2012 9:27:19 PM , Rating: 2

Wow, you're really full of excuses tonight aren't you? I wonder, do you pre rehearse them or just come up with them on the fly?

let's just not think about the fact that every other manufacture on planet Earth had 4g faster than Apple by 2 years and a managed to make it work. They also seem to manage to work in SD cards removable battery, NFC,mini HDMI, and any size screens that vary in resolution without being stuck with a few ridiculous non standard resolutions. What is it stuck at,1136x640? I wonder how to get around that limitation and what your excuse will be when they don't? meanwhile the competition passes them by on yet another front.

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/25/2012 8:25:04 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
I do? Really? You know about zilch about me, so dont make that assumption.

Great, so don't use "Apple fan" to dismiss completely legitimate and objective statements regarding pros and cons of platforms.

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RE: The biggest issue

By retrospooty on 12/25/2012 8:33:43 PM , Rating: 2

Sorry, when I see you ignoring the many good points of a competing platform and only concentrating on the good points of apple you get that title.

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RE: The biggest issue

By dark matter on 12/26/12, Rating: 0

RE: The biggest issue

By melgross on 12/24/2012 10:46:48 AM , Rating: 5

You're making up your own story for what's happening. Some people are looking for an excuse for what's happening. There's enough product out there. Makers have been stating, just as Acer has, that demand is low. Why bother to deny it?

You want to bring up Surface? Fine. People aren't interested. Sure, there has been some struggle to act as though availability is at fault, but it's not. If that was the problem, then reports of Microsoft cutting production by half wouldn't be all around the place. In addition, it's being sold on their website. If Apple can selling millions from their website, then so can Microsoft. The fact that they aren't, shows that the demand isn't there. The fact that Microsoft never tells how many devices or licenses they sell when sales are poor, is more proof.

Which reliable publications are writing articles about how demand is high for Win 8 computers, but that stock is too low? I haven't found any. Everything says the opposite.

The fact is that demand for Windows products has been problematic since the holiday quarter of 2010, when there was a big drop in sales. Tablets, particularly the iPad are having people hold on to their older machines longer, resulting in less upgrades. And now, people can just make do with a tablet, if their needs are basic. And guess what, many people just have basic computing needs, and the conveince of a tablet, again, particularly the iPad, is enough for them.

Microsoft's stupid Ads for the Surface isn't helping them either. What are they showing people about the tablet? That people can dance while clicking the keyboard, cover on. Wow! Just what people want, a tablet that needs a keyboard? Defeats the purpose of having a tablet, doesn't it?

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RE: The biggest issue

By zaaf on 12/24/2012 12:35:25 PM , Rating: 3

Your comment on the ad's is spot on. Is this really showcasing the product? I have to say that I get annoyed watching the commercial. It's horrible. Too much clicking, people dancing around, and then swiping the screen sideways. What demand do they expect? Apple's ads are usually straight to the products highlights. Why is that so difficult for Microsoft to accomplish? Microsoft should fire whatever agency they use or any in-house marketing execs. How many times has this been stated before?

Sad thing is, I make a living supporting Microsoft products. But the writing on the wall is getting clearer every day. I'm typing this on an iMac and have to say that my negative views of Apple are starting to diminish. It really is what people want and they market it properly.

I do hate that you have to sell your soul to Steve Jobs with this thing, tho. Not only with cost, but everything you do has to be tied to your Apple account. And if they could just lighten up their stance on patent infringements... another story.

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RE: The biggest issue

By Stephen! on 12/24/2012 4:36:43 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
I do hate that you have to sell your soul to Steve Jobs with this thing, tho.

Well, no, since he's dead, it's kinda moot now.

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RE: The biggest issue

By melgross on 12/24/12, Rating: 0

RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/24/2012 11:11:53 PM , Rating: 1

If you have everything tied into MS or Google accounts it isn't selling your soul, don't you see?

In the real world, some of us have accounts with MS, Google, and Apple, on top of other things like Dropbox, Crashplan, Sony, Nintendo, Amazon, Steam, etc etc.

On a side note, the latter two are among the most restrictive out there, especially Amazon with the Kindle, but I also think they're great and I love the services they provide.

Anyone saying that having an account for a service or ecosystem equates to selling their soul really needs to get their head examined.

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RE: The biggest issue

By RufusM on 12/26/2012 9:52:53 AM , Rating: 3

I've made the Faustian bargain with Google and I'm waiting for the Googleplex to absorb my soul so I can become one with the Singularity.

Oh yeah, I've also sold my soul to Microsoft, Facebook and a number of other companies so they will all have to fight for my eternal allegiance, gladiator-style!

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RE: The biggest issue

By Donkey2008 on 12/25/2012 1:28:35 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Your comment on the ad's is spot on. Is this really showcasing the product? I have to say that I get annoyed watching the commercial. It's horrible. Too much clicking, people dancing around, and then swiping the screen sideways.

Wait, Microsoft is selling a product in those commercials? I thought it was just 96.5% more wub wub.

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RE: The biggest issue

By name99 on 12/24/2012 3:29:02 PM , Rating: 3

quote:
Surface orders are down because of a lack of retail availability, not because people don't want them...There are around 60 MS stores where Surface was sold, including the pop up stores.

Are all these people who want to buy Surface unaware that there is this thing called the internet? Why don't they just buy them at surface.microsoftstore.com?

There is a point at which all this apologizing for Windows8 becomes just pathetic. If you like MS and want it to succeed, you are not helping your cause by maintaining the bubble of denial that MS has been in for eight or so years now. The way for MS to deal with the problem of almost everyone hating Win8 is by LISTENING to why people hate it and then CHANGING it --- not by making one excuse after another about why the people who hate it are wrong.

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RE: The biggest issue

By wordsworm on 12/24/12, Rating: -1

RE: The biggest issue

By macca007 on 12/25/2012 3:07:00 AM , Rating: 1

Not so sure about that, I bought my Note II purely off researching and watching vids on the net, Never held it in my hand at all, although I did make a paper cut out using it's dimensions just to be sure it wasn't gonna be too big for me. Note 2 wasn't even out in my country yet I managed to get one from overseas, Tablets are the same probably even easier as you don't have to check that the phone frequency is supported by your carrier in your country!

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RE: The biggest issue

By 91TTZ on 12/24/2012 4:34:15 PM , Rating: 3

quote:
Effect does not always equate to cause. Surface orders are down because of a lack of retail availability, not because people don't want them.

One moment we're reading articles on here stating that brick-and-mortar stores are dying because everyone's shopping online now.

The next moment we reading your claims that Surface isn't selling well because of their lack of availability at brick-and-mortar stores.

I guess in your mind people want Microsoft Surface really bad but not quite enough to go to www.microsoft.com where a giant Surface ad dominates the front page.

Also, I guess they can't be bothered to check out small mom-and-pop stores such as Best Buy and buy one in there:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncha...

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RE: The biggest issue

By Labotomizer on 12/27/2012 9:16:44 AM , Rating: 2

Best Buy got them a week or so before Christmas, and no one knows they're being sold there. Also, at the Best Buy by my office the Surface RT is sitting in the middle of a bunch of Android tablets with a tag that reads "Microsoft Android Tablet 32GB", none of which is true. So it's even worse than it should be at Best Buy. Funny though. Which is why I said their commercials should include that they are now sold at other retailers.

As for why people don't go to Microsoft.com to buy the surface, one is it's a new device that people haven't touched. It's one thing to buy an iPad online when your friend has one that you'd already touched. And, let's be honest, most people don't even consider buying Microsoft anything from their website. They've always been about the distribution channels.

I also didn't state that's the only reason it hasn't done well, but let's be honest. It's a huge problem. I'm not "making up excuses". I have a MS pop up store at the mall not 1 mile from my office. I went in and checked it out. It's a cool device, but it's not enough for me to replace my Ultrabook/iPad combo. Perhaps the Surface Pro will be, and I'm hopeful on that end. But I didn't buy one. I was simply stating that it's a problem that is well documented by many reputable bloggers and even several articles on WSJ.

As for the other Windows 8 sales, there is high demand for touch enabled laptops and All-in-ones. I personally think both devices are stupid so I completely understand OEMs not expecting such a situation. There is even fear that because of the demand there will be shortages of touch screen displays next year as people try to meet the demand.

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/24/2012 9:13:55 PM , Rating: 3

No, people just don't want Surface in any significant numbers. The Microsoft stores are ghost towns even though they are the only places you can get one. Meanwhile Microsoft spent over a billion marketing Windows 8 and about half a billion marketing Surface, and the only place you can get one are MS stores that nobody cares about. What idiots there are in charge of logistics and distribution? Terrible execution despite the fact that the market is still rejecting the product.

This apologism and spin in the face of reality is really weird, why are some of you so defensive about it?

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RE: The biggest issue

By Labotomizer on 12/27/2012 9:19:50 AM , Rating: 2

Not defensive, offering up a key reason for why demand is so low. I've talked to numerous people interested in the device but wanted to use it first. Not unreasonable. Although far more are interested in Surface Pro. I am as well. I think it will be a good device. I also will likely wait for v2 later this year that's based on Haswell as I think it will be a substantially superior device. Especially if we can get a Thunderbolt dock system. At that point the potential is through the roof.

But defensive? No, not at all. I was simply pointing out a large factor in why it hasn't been more successful. You can believe whatever you'd like.

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RE: The biggest issue

By Helbore on 12/24/2012 11:42:45 AM , Rating: 5

You do know that was nothing more than a rumour, right? As was the original quotes of how many Surfaces Microsoft originally ordered.

The only official statement on the matter was Microsoft saying they were actually ramping up production of the Surface. Of course, people will just say "well Microsoft would say that, wouldn't they?" And that might be true - but then it doesn't automatically mean we should take anything as gospel that has been stated by these know-nothing online "analysts."

Remember, these are the same people who didn't know the Surface existed. They're the same people who claimed the Surface would launch for $200. They're the same people who then thought it would launch for $1000 simply because some random European e-tailer put it on their website.

These online "reports" are no better than random gossip and guesswork, perpetuated by bloggers who are pretending to be serious journalists. Its all garbage.

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RE: The biggest issue

By Cannyone on 12/24/2012 1:34:05 PM , Rating: 2

Agreed! I take nothing that I read on the Internet as "Gospel"... Its just another lame rumor until they give me facts and numbers that can be verified. Seriously I can think of half a dozen wild rumors that have spread, recently, because people on the internet are gullible, bored, and don't want to take the time to think for themselves.

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RE: The biggest issue

By nikon133 on 12/24/2012 6:15:55 PM , Rating: 2

This.

I haven't seen Surface in NZ yet, and to my knowledge it wasn't available in Australia. Haven't heard it was launched in China either. Why would MS cut production before covering the whole globe with the product..?

Re OS inferiority. After using Win 8 on my work PC since September, and playing a bit with available RT tablets, I'm finding OS superior to Android and iOS. Yes, Tegra hardware leaves something to be desired - at least units could be cheaper based on included hardware - and app library is way behind, which isn't helping... but Win RT OS alone is enough for me to look at one of these tablets when my Transformer is for retirement. Hopefully by then, price will belower or 2nd Gen will be out already.

Advertising for RT is horrible. No way to justify it. Windows 8 does a bit better with kid painting a picture of her father, but only just. Hope they will improve on that...

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RE: The biggest issue

By BillyBatson on 12/24/2012 12:47:25 PM , Rating: 4

The SurfaceRT dos not count as a touch computer. The SurfacePro is though and plan on buying one as so do several of my friends. We would never buy an RT under any circumstance though.

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/24/2012 9:52:34 PM , Rating: 1

A few weeks ago I posted about a mall here in LA where an Apple, Microsoft, and Sony store are all within a minute of each other, with the MS store being in a prime foot traffic area. The Apple Store there is a little old and is tucked away in comparison. I talked about how the Apple Store, like any other, is packed with customers, while the MS and Sony stores were empty. This was on a weekend.

CNN just posted photos of those same stores on Christmas Eve: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/12/24/apple-micro...

Internet message board denial only goes so far, people in the real world just aren't interested in what MS has to offer with Windows 8 and Surface. The fact that Surface RT is objectively inferior to the iDevices (significantly slower hardware and weaker developer support) is just gravy.

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RE: The biggest issue

By kmmatney on 12/24/2012 11:32:24 PM , Rating: 2

The link you posted says it all...

I've bought 2 copies of Windows 8, only because they were a lot cheaper than Windows 7. The surface RT is priced similarly to competing Apple products - it reminds me of how they priced the Zune. It's just hard to see it selling well.

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RE: The biggest issue

By BillyBatson on 12/29/2012 1:32:19 PM , Rating: 2

SurfacePro isn't out yet. SurfafeRT is just another tart like the iPad that's only really good for browsing the Internet. If you just want a tablet there is still no reason not to go with an iPad. If you want a touch PC in a tablet form factor the Pro will be our only choice at first and so far it seems like a great choice.

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RE: The biggest issue

By Kakao on 12/26/2012 6:52:38 AM , Rating: 2

Would you mind to post a reference to that number?

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RE: The biggest issue

By 3minence on 12/24/2012 9:57:47 AM , Rating: 2

Both MS and OEMs have screwed this up. I figure I'm an average user.

I have a desktop PC that will never see Windows 8 because Win8 does not have a good desktop interface. Win8 offers me nothing compelling.

I have a media PC that is hooked to the TV and is used for movies, games, and very rarely Office Productivity and web. it will get Win8 because Win8 and it's Metro interface will work well in that usage model. Of course, most people have consoles for this so I don't see Win8 making big sales here yet.

I want a tablet like the Surface Pro with Win8 Pro on it. it would be the perfect travel device, a tablet on the plane and a small PC with keyboard in the hotel room. it will let me play games and run my business apps.

So Win8 isn't selling well on the desktop? Duh! that's not where it shines. Touch enabled All-in-ones are great devices for Win8 as are convertible tablets. Strait PCs just are not.

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RE: The biggest issue

By Flunk on 12/24/2012 12:21:19 PM , Rating: 2

Your logic is flawed, even knowing this website exists, let alone reading it means that you have a superior level of technical knowledge to the average user. Quite likely much more.

Frankly, the average user, never upgrades the OS on anything. That's been proven many times. This is why they invented over the air updates for phone OSes. It has to be basically automatic and free for the average user to even bother (and sometimes not even then).

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RE: The biggest issue

By dark matter on 12/24/2012 5:43:44 PM , Rating: 1

Actually, it's your logic that's flawed if you think you can win any argument by claiming "your logic is flawed".

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/26/2012 6:50:03 PM , Rating: 2

He backs up his post with data that has been proven time and time again and you come back with that pathetic response?

That is beyond grasping at straws.

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RE: The biggest issue

By melgross on 12/24/2012 10:32:23 AM , Rating: 2

There is demand; little demand. It's a problem, and there's no point in trying to deny it.

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RE: The biggest issue

By sprockkets on 12/24/2012 10:57:27 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
There is a demand for Windows 8 systems. This has been fairly well documented.

Win8 sold well, but it appears those were on current systems or upgrades since a lot of people were able to upgrade very cheaply.

This report claims that new system sales are not increasing, that and even in the article only 15% of acer's lineup have touch screens. That doesn't help.

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/24/2012 9:17:43 PM , Rating: 3

I'm curious what Win8 sales would have been if it wasn't heavily discounted. The funny thing is that almost none of the people I play or work with have made the upgrade, despite the fact that it can be bought for as little as $15. One of them who did ended up rolling back to Win7, which is pretty unheard of. I ran the Win8 RC for months and in the end I'm sticking with Win7, waiting on whatever follows up Win8.

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RE: The biggest issue

By Kepler on 12/26/2012 7:23:41 AM , Rating: 1

Be a man, switch to Linux!

I installed Win8 the day it came out, and have since requested a refund from MS. I've been running Linux at work for years, and will just make the switch at home now.

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RE: The biggest issue

By TakinYourPoints on 12/26/2012 5:11:21 PM , Rating: 2

I play too many games! If it wasn't for that I'd be all OS X at this point. I do dual-boot Linux every now and then for lols, but we'll see.

What would make me stick is if Valve and Blizzard had enough native ports for Linux, then it'd be worth it (no WINE for me). Steam and Source games coming over to Ubuntu might start the ball rolling, but it'll take a while for others to follow I think. A good port of Starcraft 2 would really have me consider it.

DirectX is too firmly entrenched in desktop gaming at the moment, that's the real problem at the moment.

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RE: The biggest issue

By 91TTZ on 12/24/2012 4:23:33 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
There is a demand for Windows 8 systems. This has been fairly well documented.

I'm going to have to disagree with that statement. The "documentation" you've seen is probably from Microsoft promoting their product. Microsoft was bound to sell loads of Windows 8 licenses because OEMs have to buy them in order to finish building their systems; that doesn't mean that those systems have sold.

Before the launch of Windows 8 Microsoft claimed that there's such demand for Windows 8 that it will drive increased PC sales. This has not happened. As it turns out, PC sales are down so we know that people aren't knocking down the door to buy Windows 8 PCs.

As it also turns out, most of the touch screen tablets being sold have Apple iOS or Android on them. Windows 8 isn't catching on in that market either.

To sum it up, Microsoft sold a lot of Windows 8 licenses this quarter because they convinced OEMs that customers would be demanding them. Those OEMs are now discovering that they're having trouble selling Windows 8 devices.

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RE: The biggest issue

By Stephen! on 12/24/2012 4:51:17 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
To sum it up, Microsoft sold a lot of Windows 8 licenses this quarter because they convinced OEMs that customers would be demanding them. Those OEMs are now discovering that they're having trouble selling Windows 8 devices.

It should have been obvious to them, given the success/fail cycle of Windows.

Windows 98 - Success
Windows ME - Fail
Windows XP - Success
Windows Vista - Fail
Windows Seven - Success
Windows Eight - Fail (Well, maybe ...)

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RE: The biggest issue

By macca007 on 12/25/2012 3:11:12 AM , Rating: 2

;) Beat me to it!

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RE: The biggest issue

By Cheeseavatar on 12/24/2012 4:52:29 PM , Rating: 2

I have to agree that "New System Sales" have been poor.
I mean when you look at what most people do with PC it can be done via other means now like tablets.

Also take into account that most people do not need to buy a new computer every 2-3 years anymore as most computers will work for what the average consumer does.

I know that for myself, my family and my friends I have just bought the $40 Win 8 Pro upgrade and upgraded everyone that way.

Their laptop/Desktop acutally work better than they did when Win 7 was install.

So in a way yes, new system sales have lacked, but overall liciences that MS as sold...

Thats the real number we should be looking at and we will never know the ture number.

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RE: The biggest issue

By DiscoWade on 12/24/2012 7:17:50 PM , Rating: 2

It is my opinion that the two best operating systems Microsoft ever made are Windows 7 and Windows Home Server. Few people know about WHS, but many people have Windows 7. W7 came at the perfect time when many people needed to replace their aging Windows XP systems. It is very good. So good, in fact, that few will buy a new computer because they want a new computer. The old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies.

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RE: The biggest issue

By dark matter on 12/24/2012 5:41:38 PM , Rating: 1

"There is a demand for Windows 8 systems."

Not from me there isn't. And this is from someone coming from Windows 1.

Not this time. As far as I'm concerned if I wanted a tablet, I'd buy a tablet with a dedicated tablet OS.

If I want a laptop or a desktop... Well, I'm screwed now.

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RE: The biggest issue

By DiscoWade on 12/24/2012 7:24:28 PM , Rating: 2

When Windows 8 was first released, there were no Windows 7 systems on the shelf unless they were ones that had yet to sell. Just last week, I bought a new HP with Windows 7 for someone whose computer died. It had a Core i7 and 12GB of memory, so I think (but don't know) it was made after Windows 8 was released. The Sam's Club I bought it at had as many Windows 7 desktops for sale as Windows 8 ones. I do know for a fact that in late November this same Sam's Club had no Windows 7 computers for sell.

This is pure anecdotal of course.

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RE: The biggest issue

By IntelUser2000 on 12/24/2012 10:57:32 PM , Rating: 2

Labotomizer is right, but the article is right too.

Outside the Surface RT, its rare to see touchscreen based systems. Yet the people who want Windows 8 would consider touchscreen devices.

You can't buy them even if you want to, and add to that there's only a few touchscreen models.

So Windows 8 discourages traditional PC buyers, but the devices its trying to move to isn't available.

Back to Surface RT: Aside from the fact that its from a big brand name vendor, it has nothing that says you should get one. If you are going to get "Windows" that has no application support, why would you buy that over iOS and Android?

Limited sales do happen because its so widely advertised but that's about it.

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RE: The biggest issue

By Kepler on 12/26/2012 7:19:01 AM , Rating: 2

Where has it been documented? I've only heard (and experienced) bad things with Windows 8. I've been running Linux at work for years now, and now at home. I installed Windows 8 on release, and have since contacted MS for a refund.

It is junk, face it.

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