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Details on the next generation Tegra 4 processor, codenamed "Wayne", leak

NVIDIA has done pretty well on the mobile market with its Tegra 3 processor, and it should be of no surprise to anyone that NVIDIA has been working on the next generation Tegra processor. The company even provided some rough details early last year.
However, some detailed information on the next-generation 28nm Tegra 4 leaked today, and it promises six times the power of Tegra 3. Tegra 4 appears to be, according to a leaked slide, a 4+1 quad-core design similar to that of the current Tegra 3. The Cortex-A15-based Tegra 4 has 72 graphics cores and supports dual channel memory. Tegra 4 will also support resolutions of 2560 x 1440 for encode and decode and promises very low power consumption.

Other supported features will include the USB 3.0, making this the first NVIDIA chipset to support the new and faster USB standard.

With CES 2013 kicking off in mere weeks, we should have significantly more details coming in the not-too-distant future. 

Source: Engadget

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Still 32-bit
By Ammohunt on 12/18/2012 11:07:31 AM , Rating: 3
Can't wait until they migrate arm to 64-bit it going to change the sever landscape and with any luck desktop systems as well.

RE: Still 32-bit
By StevoLincolnite on 12/18/2012 11:18:13 AM , Rating: 5
Desktops/Windows won't go anywhere.
You have decades worth of software/games backwards compatibility and it's also the cutting edge in terms of graphics that SoC's can't ever touch.
It *could* though change our HTPC's. - May not need a MiniITX system anymore!

PC sales haven't really "Nose Dived" either, more or less just 10 or so million out of 450 million sales, which is still almost 4x as much as what Tablets sell.

Most of that could be attributed to the fact that even a 5 year old PC can still handle all of an average joe's facebook needs with ease, which then becomes a tough sell when the entire planet is in a "financial crisis".

On another note, it bugs me how they call pixel pipelines "cores" now. - They could just say 72 Pixel shaders like they have been doing for years...
Hey look! My graphics cards have 2048 cores each!
Would be interesting to know how it compares performance-wise to a 4 year old AMD/nVidia IGP.

RE: Still 32-bit
By othercents on 12/18/12, Rating: 0
RE: Still 32-bit
By Kurz on 12/18/2012 11:33:16 AM , Rating: 4
Many businesses use Software that is often decades old.
It still works and fits the needs of the customer.

RE: Still 32-bit
By othercents on 12/18/2012 1:15:46 PM , Rating: 2
Many businesses use Software that is often decades old. It still works and fits the needs of the customer.
I would have to point you to what I said.
This also doesn't include businesses that might have custom software, but hopefully they are starting to move to a web browser based software.
The nice thing about this decades old software is that when it breaks everyone who knows how to fix it is dead.

RE: Still 32-bit
By dgingerich on 12/18/2012 1:31:05 PM , Rating: 2
As a corporate support tech (or at least I used to be one, but I've drifted into an admin role lately) I really, really wish some companies and corporate executives would get their heads out of their behinds and get rid of some of this horrible old software. Some companies have even gone to this stupid idea of keeping their old mainframe app and database and set up a web interface for it. Talk about hard to support! It's horribly inefficient, too.

Moving to a new database system with a proper modern interface would save tons of time, both on the user end and on the support end, and cost far less in the long run than the cost to migrate.

Then, there are a huge number of corporate executives who just got their jobs because of daddy and are completely incompetent. I guess we shouldn't expect much out of those types other than just more of the same stupidity.

RE: Still 32-bit
By nedsand on 12/18/2012 4:12:12 PM , Rating: 3
No Kidding!

Two weeks ago we finally unplugged our Novel 4.1 server that is running a Pentium II. No kidding. It's still turned on just in case we have to have it. We figured if we turned it off it wouldn't ever turn back on again.

I worked a contract 6 years ago where I had to convert a small gov. agency from Novel/Groupwise to Windows/Exchange. They still had a business critical Novel 3.11 server running on Pentium Pro 166mhz.

One thing is for sure. They don't make them like they used to.

RE: Still 32-bit
By ipay on 12/19/2012 4:50:19 PM , Rating: 2
You wouldn't be talking about S3 Publishing would you?

RE: Still 32-bit
By RamarC on 12/18/2012 4:02:56 PM , Rating: 3
next year windows server 2003 and sql server 2003 will be a decade old. considering MS' new licensing strategy, a lot of folks will stay on those "ancient" platforms for another 4-5 years.

RE: Still 32-bit
By Manch on 12/19/2012 7:10:47 AM , Rating: 2
A few years ago, I was tasked with fixing some malfunctioning legacy equipment. I was given two weeks to get it running. The previous crews had 90 days each to try and fix it. Having never seen this type of system outside of a museum before, I even talked to retirees turned GS/contractors from my career field for help. I found one, and his suggestion was to pick it up about three feet off the floor and drop it! It started working for a little bit. I ended up using foam, gum, cardboard and duct tape to brace a daughterboard who's slot was so worn out that the card would vibrate out if left unsecured. Apparently dropping it reseated all of the cards for a little bit. lol

Finding documentation and/or getting the manuals for old systems can be a pita. Finding SME's for legacy systems is also a pain. A lot of them are sought after for high paying jobs after they leave service bc being able to maintain these old systems is good government contract money for companies.

RE: Still 32-bit
By NellyFromMA on 12/19/2012 1:00:30 PM , Rating: 2
Um, what do you think the average persons life span even is? 40? lol

RE: Still 32-bit
By bug77 on 12/18/2012 12:48:39 PM , Rating: 2
... I don't see a reason why people wouldn't be able to use tablets (or specifically Windows RT) as their desktop replacement at home

Because you can't type worth a squat on a tablet. And have you ever tried changing the value of a combo box?

RE: Still 32-bit
By othercents on 12/18/2012 1:13:59 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, my keyboard I type on with my laptop is the same one I can plug into my tablet and use. If there is any question I use a Natural Ergonomic 4000 Keyboard. However I also an Apple bluetooth keyboard that works just as well when I travel. You also have options for using a mouse.

RE: Still 32-bit
By bug77 on 12/18/2012 6:28:31 PM , Rating: 2
Hauling around a tablet, keyboard and mouse? I'd take an ultra book any day.

RE: Still 32-bit
By ET on 12/19/2012 4:02:43 AM , Rating: 2
Perhaps, but most people won't. For many tasks tablets are good enough as is, and if you need to type, an additional keyboard will still likely end up smaller and lighter than an ultrabook, with the additional benefit that you can separate them and use just the tablet for reading, etc.

RE: Still 32-bit
By bug77 on 12/19/2012 6:38:32 AM , Rating: 2
Many tasks? I can't think of much besides surfing the web. Games tend to suck on mobile, programming or anything above basic text editing is a no-go.
Sure, people use tablets, but I have yet to see anyone giving up on their PC/laptop in favour of a tablet.

RE: Still 32-bit
By cyberguyz on 12/19/2012 8:12:58 AM , Rating: 2
Not in an office environment anyway.

In my job I need the quad core, 16 GB memory 27" screen, terabyte of local hard disk and mechanical keyboard to do my work. Without them i would be castrated.

Since I am getting all that on a laptop (screen via docking station), I can carry it with me too.

As for OS, serously? I multitask like a madman. i NEED to have 5-15 windows open on my deskop so I can monitor what is going on in most of them at once. Even with Android 4.2 I cant do that with 'multiwin' - the screen real estate just is not there. And Windows 8 RE... forget that crap.

RE: Still 32-bit
By messele on 12/21/2012 3:09:57 AM , Rating: 2
The whole big screen phone / tablet / multi tasking thing is a white elephant and harks back to why tablets were a failure up to a couple of years ago and still nerds bang on that they need to have massive, bloated feature sets.

There is no substitute for a desktop for some work situations, even some that can't be achieved with quite the same efficiency on a laptop. Forget mobile OSs, no matter how much they cram into them it will just make them inefficient at what tablets are best at. It will never make them anything close to a desktop / laptop replacement.

RE: Still 32-bit
By TakinYourPoints on 12/21/2012 4:54:05 AM , Rating: 2
Yup. Neckbeards have no concept that optimizing for specific form factors is better than cramming as many "features" as possible into a device that is actually harmed by doing so.

RE: Still 32-bit
By Shadowself on 12/18/2012 1:18:37 PM , Rating: 3
as long as performance doesn't suffer
This is the crux of the problem. Running the current versions of MS Office applications on 5+ year old systems can be a royal pain.

ARM and similar SOCs are not equivalent to *today's* mid to high end desktop processors. Within five years these SOCs certainly will be equivalent to today's mid to high end (maybe not the very high end Xeons, e.g.). However, software will get more compute hungry in that time. Both users want more functionality and developers want to insert more functionality -- not to mention marketing wanting to scream about the latest and greatest new features.

Eventually (my guess is within 10 years, 15 years AT MOST) the SOCs like ARM will be at a state that very few people will have dedicated boxes sitting on (or under) their desks. It's just not the near future. Certainly not within the next five years.

The transition has started. It will be taking a bigger step next year with the new Surface tablet ships with a "full" version of Office and a "full" version ships for iOS. It's just that the transition will take at least another decade to take hold.

This in not unlike the very late 1970s leading into the early 1990s with the switch from "big iron" to networks of "desktops". (For the sake of simplifying this discussion, I'm lumping large mainframes through what were called "minicomputers" like the VAXes into the same category.) "Desktops" got their nose under the tent in the late 1970s just like the current "bring your own device" trend is getting tablets into enterprises today. It was well more than a decade (into the 1990s) before big iron really, really started to die -- as was shown by consolidation of such entities as DEC, Data General, Wang, etc. into other companies and IBM transforming into a services company. Personal usage in the home moved a bit faster om the 80s and early 90s simply because people didn't have mainframes in their homes and therefore had nothing to replace. Now desktops and laptops are firmly entrenched in most homes.

Sure, they will be replaced by a combination of smartphones, tablets and ultrabooks. But that entrenchment will take time to replace especially when you consider evolving/expanding requirements/needs as mentioned above.

My best guess (100% pure speculation) will be that by 2025 the "standard" will be high performance tablets (of various sizes) with "smart" TVs in the home and maybe even office. Moderate resolution (I'm avoiding the 'retina' label) on the tablet when not connected to the smart TV, but with the tablet supporting (with enough performance capability) to drive a 4K smart TV when connected -- and that connection will be optionally either wired or wireless.

RE: Still 32-bit
By othercents on 12/18/2012 2:50:31 PM , Rating: 2
ARM and similar SOCs are not equivalent to *today's* mid to high end desktop processors.
Yes, but we were not talking about today's ARM processors. Plus the speculation is that ARM x64 will be a significant jump in performance that hopefully fit into the low-end PC arena.

The market is definitely being pushed from both ends requiring more performance with less heat and power costs. There hasn't been processor to fit that mark yet, however the ARM processor is close without having all the legacy code. I speculate that we will see a performance jump next year in ARM that will make it the perfect processor for Windows RT devices and will meet the demands for most people.

Face it.. now almost everyone and their dogs has a tablet (my dog has one, she watches snoopy) and the number of cycles coming from the "legacy" desktops and laptops for those families has dropped drastically. If I could get the web apps my daughter uses for school to work on android she wouldn't ever need to use her desktop (however parental controls suck, so she is banned from using the tablet).


RE: Still 32-bit
By NellyFromMA on 12/19/2012 1:04:47 PM , Rating: 2
Intel will likely become sufficiently power efficient before ARM meets any current gen Intel performance benchmark. 64-bit isn't going to boost performance that much, unless I missed something when Intel did the same.

Yes, mobile devices are out and about certianly not going anywhere. Arm is great for light workloads, especially battery powered. ARM would have to revolutionize at a pace faster than Intel's slowest pace to win out in the server space though.

As for PC replacements, ya ARM could have a place. It's so cheap. But, there's a reason for that too..

RE: Still 32-bit
By someguy123 on 12/22/2012 6:52:45 PM , Rating: 2
If you're not talking about today's processors, why do you ignore advancements by other companies? AMD is getting its APU package down to less than 20 watts, and intel has already produced an Atom chip running similarly to an snapdragon core (though core count still limited) at similar draw without finfet.

The claims of gloom and doom over conventional x86 parts are highly exaggerated. The industry isn't some kind of bubble where only one standard can succeed without the entire business popping. 10 years ago the death of x86 would've made significantly more sense considering the node sizes, but now its becoming less and less influential to draw.

RE: Still 32-bit
By FITCamaro on 12/18/2012 3:33:44 PM , Rating: 2
Most 32 bit applications still run on Windows XP, Vista, 7, and 8 64-bit.

Yes you will always have some that don't. But by and large, you can start to move forward. Anyone who's not should be. Granted you have companies like Walmart who think up to date technology is the devil that will steal their data. Seriously. Their upgrade policy is "Can it be fixed, patched, or taped together? Then its still good. Performance? Pfft."

RE: Still 32-bit
By Roffles on 12/18/2012 4:34:51 PM , Rating: 2

Just like all backers of ARM, you're missing the answer to "why?". If I had the time, I could fire off several dozen "why not" responses to why your visions of a 64bit ARM based browser computing environment as the standard will never happen.

Keep in mind that choosing efficiency and portability over performance and productivity isn't a good business strategy. It would take a tremendous economic rebound and huge surplussed of wealth for small/medium businesses, who compromise the great majority of the deeply rooted x86 computing environment, to want to make such a [relatively needless] transition that requires rewriting all their custom software.

And if I had to bet on a horse, my bet is that Intel and maybe AMD will easily become comparatively power efficient to ARM LOOONG before ARM is able to match Intel on performance. And it's at this point that ARM will be forever relegated to Phones and Televisions. ARM architecture isn't even designed to compete so stop trying to champion it like it's the next big wave. IT'S NOT!

RE: Still 32-bit
By Manch on 12/19/2012 6:57:25 AM , Rating: 2
Being that the DoD is probably the largest user of legacy software, you should check out this DT article. It's about the USAF's $1Billion FAIL.

RE: Still 32-bit
By ssnova703 on 12/18/2012 12:37:55 PM , Rating: 2
Desktops/Windows won't go anywhere.
You have decades worth of software/games backwards compatibility and it's also the cutting edge in terms of graphics that SoC's can't ever touch.

As the use of the "PC" becomes more defined, ARM cores shine. IE: the vast majority of people used their PC's to facebook/email/check the weather/read news.... instead of using nearly 200watts to do that, you could easily and efficiently do that with less than 10watts.

This is a big reason why the PC is rapidly declining. The saying goes, "anything you can do, I can do it better.", and that is quickly becoming the case with ARM vs X86, there are still hurdles to overcome in certain areas, but they are quickly being worked on.

Perhaps two strong arguments for the PC(among others) is legacy productivity software(engineering, rendering, photo editing, etc.) and hardcore gaming.

Yet, both are being challenged everyday as software makers make the move to ARM.

RE: Still 32-bit
By Helbore on 12/18/2012 12:59:25 PM , Rating: 3
Its happening on the other side, too, though. Intel have demonstrated Haswell ULV processors running at 8W. Intel are also moving their ATom line to the same tick-tock cycle as their mainstream processors.

I think too many people are looking at ARM and seeing it eclipsing x86. I see it going the same way as when people thought AMD was about to take Intel's crown. It looked like that until Intel hit back.

Never underestimate what Intel can do once they set their minds (and wallets) to it. The myth of "x86 can't be as power-efficient as RISC" has been dispelled. ARM is clambering up below a descending boot.

RE: Still 32-bit
By Ammohunt on 12/18/2012 1:42:39 PM , Rating: 2
instead of using nearly 200watts to do that, you could easily and efficiently do that with less than 10watts.

Think of the power savings a company with 1000's of desktop PC's could save by running something like an ARM android based Mini-PC(like a MK802 iii) for daily work coupled with Citrix or VDI for legacy applications. All in a thumb drive sized device that users could drop in their pocket to use at home on their monitor with an HDMI port beats the hell out of a laptop any day.

RE: Still 32-bit
By drewsup on 12/18/2012 2:17:18 PM , Rating: 2
most Citrix based companies already use this, little 350 Mhz terminals that the clients have buried on their desks under piles of paperwork. Not fabulous, but they get the job done.

RE: Still 32-bit
By Ammohunt on 12/19/2012 12:34:32 AM , Rating: 2
Not a fan of the graphical terminals they work but having a fully functional PC is still preferable.

RE: Still 32-bit
By rudolphna on 12/18/2012 5:11:41 PM , Rating: 2
Except that's not true, regarding "cores" Graphics/CUDA
Core/Shader =/= Pixel pipeline. The current CUDA cores and AMD Shader units are far more complex and multi functional than pixel pipelines were.

RE: Still 32-bit
By ET on 12/19/2012 4:09:47 AM , Rating: 2
Desktops are already going the way of the dodo. Sure enthusiasts will still buy them, but most people already buy laptops.

Windows? Well, there's a good chance it will remain, but it will also be on ARM.

So it ends up being ARM vs. x86. At the high end x86 is likely to rule for the next few years. At the low end there won't be much reason to select on over the other, for home users. People will buy whatever ends up in appealing devices.

As for Pixel Shaders, when are you living? Nobody mentioned pixel shaders in hardware since the shader hardware was unified, and that was around 6 years ago.

RE: Still 32-bit
By Slaimus on 12/18/2012 11:22:18 AM , Rating: 2
The A15 has a PAE like feature that will support a lot more than 4GB of memory.

RE: Still 32-bit
By NellyFromMA on 12/19/2012 12:59:18 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, ARM in the server evnironment is going to take a LONG time to materialize in any appreciable way. As an architecture, ARM simply doesn't offer performance anywhere near Intel x86/x64. Yes, x86 uses more power, and yes, companies are trying to go green, but ARM will only find a place in especiall light server work loads when compared to Intel. There are no signs that ARM will be coming any where near x86 performance present day anytime in the next 3-5 years, where we will also see more efficient and still more powerful Intel chips.

For battery powered light work loads, ARM all the way today. Servers, idk... surely it should be pursued, but honestly its gonna take a hell of a lot of investment and a similar amount of time. Just my opinion.

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