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Right now, customers can only buy the Surface RT tablet at Microsoft Stores

Reports on Microsoft's Surface tablet have been a mixed bag lately, but All Things D is pretty clear about its position: the demand and sales just aren't there.

All Things D recently spoke with Boston-based brokerage firm Detwiler Fenton about Microsoft's Surface RT tablet. The verdict? Microsoft better get its tablet out in other stores or it's going to sink.

"Lack of distribution is killing the product," said Detwiler Fenton. "Mixed reviews and a [$499] starting price tag certainly don't help, but lack of retail exposure at Best Buy and others is severely depressing sales."

Right now, customers can only buy the Surface RT tablet at Microsoft Stores. The problem with this is that there's only 31 of them, with another 34 smaller Microsoft kiosks around the U.S.

Due to this lack of presence in major retailers, Detwiler Fenton estimates that Microsoft will only sell 500,000 to 600,000 Surface RTs in the December quarter. This is a strong hit to previous estimates of 1 million to 2 million.

Recently, a pair of reports from both CNET and The Seattle Times showed differing views on how Windows 8-based touchscreen tablets, convertibles and laptops are faring. CNET spoke with IDC and IHS iSuppli analysts, who said retailers were having trouble keeping them on shelves due to high demand. However, The Seattle Times begged to differ, echoing Detwiler Fenton's concerns: there just aren't very many Windows 8 tablets out yet, and those that are are impossible to find. However, other Windows 8 tablets are sold in major retailers like Best Buy; not just Microsoft Stores.

Microsoft's Surface Pro is expected to be released in January, which will feature the Windows 8 Pro operating system instead of Windows RT for ARM-based tablets.

Source: All Things D



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Zune all over again
By chmilz on 12/8/12, Rating: 0
RE: Zune all over again
By carage on 12/8/2012 2:56:13 PM , Rating: 1
I think you are referring to Surface Pro...
I see a lot of people around me holding out for Surface Pro.


RE: Zune all over again
By Mitch101 on 12/9/2012 10:53:16 AM , Rating: 4
I know a good number of companies waiting on the Surface Pro as well they really like Surface RT but without a full blown mail client they are salivating waiting for the surface Pro version which is more in line with Corporate use.


RE: Zune all over again
By Solandri on 12/9/2012 2:33:22 PM , Rating: 2
Samsung has had a line of x86 slate models out for a couple years now. Here are the latest versions:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=...
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Series-XE700T1A-A03U...

The Surface Pro certainly beats them in features per dollar. But if companies had wanted to go for this form factor in an x86 system, they could have done it already. They didn't have to wait for the Surface Pro.

Don't get me wrong - I think this form factor is next obvious evolution of the laptop. But I don't think the lackluster sales are as simple as "companies are waiting for the Surface Pro." When you add the expense of an Intel CPU ($300+ for the ultra low voltage versions vs $15 for an ARM processor) and a Microsoft OS ($100 vs free for Android), an x86 tablet is already starting at a $400 price disadvantage.

Starting a couple years ago, CPU performance got so high that a low-end CPU on a PC was "enough" for the average user. ARM processors aren't quite there yet, but it's inevitable that they will be. ARM combined with a non-Microsoft OS has represented the first time in decades that the industry has really had a chance to shake off the huge tax imposed by the Wintel duopoly. Long-term I'm predicting either Android (Linux)/ARM will win out and become the new standard, or Microsoft and Intel will steeply drop their prices and sacrifice profit margin to remain the industry standard. (Apple's closed ecosystem will prevent it from truly dominating - business compares are tools, not appliances.)


RE: Zune all over again
By Visual on 12/10/2012 4:46:00 AM , Rating: 2
On paper the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro is actually better than Surface Pro in some regards... lighter than it when undocked, and has a real keyboard dock that will hold the display at the angle you set it.

It was supposed to be out earlier too - as early as when Windows 8 launched on 26th of October. When that didn't happen, it was supposed to be out on several other rumored dates in between then and now. Well, it is finally available in the USA... barely... but for $1700 or even upwards of $2000 at some places, when it was supposed to be $1100...

No idea when it may be available in my country at a sane price at all. Might turn out to be even later than the Surface Pro. I am very disappointed.

As to the last-gen Sandy Bridge variant that you mention - it was a decent product, but again very late to the market. Would have been a great hit if it launched when the Sandy Bridge CPU it uses launched in the start of 2011 (i.e. when the Asus ep121 launched with last-year's CPU and ruined the market segment, especially because of its craptastic GPU), but instead it launched close to the year's end, when I was already waiting for Ivy Bridge. Little did I know that Ivy Bridge based devices would also not launch when the CPU became available though, but be delayed until Windows 8 and then some.

This whole market segment feels like a series of cruel jokes with people like me that had wanted a similar tablet for years... now Microsoft, supposedly entering the market in order to fix the situation, instead adds to it with yet more unreasonable delays.


RE: Zune all over again
By darkhawk1980 on 12/10/2012 6:39:13 AM , Rating: 2
I have had the Samsung Slate 7 now for approximately 6 months, and I can't complain about it's use at all. Even running Windows 7, it is miles ahead of what I expected to get out of the tablet. It certainly does everything I need, want, and expected out of it, and more. At this point, I realize that newer Sandy Bridge CPU's are out, but to be perfectly honest, that wasn't a huge deal. As far as price, total (PC, dock, keyboard) I paid roughly $1300. That's for the model with a 128 GB SSD as well. I didn't find that unreasonable, even though the dock and keyboard were both $90. I'm not sure where you're getting the $1700 to $2000 from, but I haven't seen them more than $1400, even with the extra bells and whistles....Newegg currently (although out of stock) has the Samsung STIV for $1200 with a 128 GB SSD. Is that really all that unreasonable? I don't think so.

Lastly, these products are doing bad because of bad marketing, and incredibly low advertising. I haven't seen an ad at all for any other tablet besides the Microsoft Surface. People don't know these alternative products exist.


RE: Zune all over again
By Visual on 12/10/2012 7:35:33 AM , Rating: 2
I'm getting the price from Amazon. Places that are out of stock are not valid.
I'm sure the price will get to the promised $1100-1200 when supply stabilizes, but right now the situation is really bad.


RE: Zune all over again
By DrChemist on 12/10/2012 9:22:24 AM , Rating: 2
I think they need to take the plunge and bump the RT and RT pro to before the holidays and offer the RT for $499 with the cover or $399 without. That is the sweetspot. As for the RT pro $899 is pretty aggressive based on the fact that it is much higher specs than even the macbook air and is $100 less. If they did some promo for the first 3 months to give the cover keyboards for free that would get people buying even more. I know it won't make as much money but you need to get followers of your ecosystem to join a market flooded with other devices that others have already spent so much to be integrated to. Once you have them you can start modifying prices and take the price apple point.


RE: Zune all over again
By datdamonfoo on 12/10/2012 9:59:54 AM , Rating: 1
There's no such thing as an "RT Pro".


RE: Zune all over again
By Netscorer on 12/10/2012 1:44:53 PM , Rating: 2
This is Microsoft you are talking about. They will not discount product until they realize that the only way to sell it is through a fire sale.
Ballmer seriously believes that Surface is the 8th wonder of the world and that everyone, including their pets would want one.
I have Windows 8 device (Lenovo Yoga) and though I like touch screen interface, the Windows 8 store is a disaster. No quality apps, no way to find an app by vendor (1000 variations of YouTube app is a classic example), inconsistent Charms interface between apps, plenty of bugs even in the Microsoft apps, over-simplistic functionality compared to full-featured applications, the list goes on.


RE: Zune all over again
By torpor on 12/11/2012 11:59:46 PM , Rating: 2
Ballmer thinks Surface is the 8th wonder? Of course he does; his company is selling it. Duh.

Steve Jobs thought Apple TV was the cure for Cancer. You see how that worked out.

Maybe you shouldn't trust product evaluations from tech executives.


RE: Zune all over again
By 91TTZ on 12/12/2012 11:27:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Steve Jobs thought Apple TV was the cure for Cancer.


Steve Jobs never pitched the Apple TV as a hit mainstream product. He always called it "a hobby"


RE: Zune all over again
By Argon18 on 12/10/2012 12:30:15 PM , Rating: 1
That's nonsense. It's available for purchase online, and online shopping is through the roof, so much so that it's putting traditional brick and mortar out of business.

It may be a "nifty" product, but it's a fad that'll be dead come January. Dump it into the same failed consumer product rubbish bin of yesteryear, right next to the Kin.


I guess you didn't see this yesterday
By ratbert1 on 12/8/2012 1:59:31 PM , Rating: 2
Don't know if it is true, but seems like they are getting ready to sell these through other channels.
http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/paul-thurrotts...




RE: I guess you didn't see this yesterday
By tviceman on 12/8/2012 9:18:17 PM , Rating: 2
Wider distribution (Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, etc.) and including the keyboard cover at the $500 price tag would help it turn around and take off in sales.


By hich08 on 12/10/2012 4:02:58 PM , Rating: 2
Agree. Maybe they'll change their mind soon.


why would I buy this
By frozentundra123456 on 12/9/2012 2:21:06 AM , Rating: 2
To me the Surface RT is just in limbo and I would not even consider buying one. It does not run real windows, and is the same price or more expensive than an android tablet, which has many, many more apps. The only real advantage I see to it is that it runs MS office, but without the full windows OS, I dont see that as a major advantage.

Personally I have been very disappointed with my Acer tablet, and would not consider buying any device again that does not run full x86 windows. Actually, I take that back. I would consider an iPad, but I am totally disgusted with ARM and Android.




RE: why would I buy this
By RufusM on 12/10/2012 10:07:11 AM , Rating: 2
I'm with you. I don't see the advantage of the Surface over any other tablet. The Surface Pro, on the other hand, has many advantages over existing tablets (and some disadvantages to be sure).

Having said that, I'm still not sold on a tablet device all together anyway for my uses. I use my phone to browse the web and whatnot when in front of the TV and I use a laptop when I want to get real work done.

I know there are many good use cases out there for tablet computing, but it seems like many people are just getting them because it's the new, cool thing to do.


Must be mad...
By ballist1x on 12/10/2012 6:41:17 AM , Rating: 2
...to spend $500 on a Surface that is actually inferior to your existing laptop.

Its just a bit smaller, no better, often worse. Less powerful and less useful in virtually all ways.

Do MS and the rest of the world not get it? To sell a sub laptop, it must be sub laptop pricing. i.e make it $200 and they will come. $500? you're having a giraffe.

Its no surprise that the hot products at Xmas are the Asus Nexus 7 because it costs about $250...




RE: Must be mad...
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/10/2012 3:55:15 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Do MS and the rest of the world not get it? To sell a sub laptop, it must be sub laptop pricing. i.e make it $200 and they will come. $500? you're having a giraffe.
Apparently, people are buying iPads in droves and it's a sub-laptop and 500 as well. So...kind of throws that theory out the Windows.. see what I did there?


NEXUS ONE failled too
By Da W on 12/9/2012 8:40:42 AM , Rating: 3
NEXUS ONE failled too




RE: NEXUS ONE failled too
By Tony Swash on 12/9/12, Rating: -1
distributor outlet
By jconan on 12/9/2012 2:32:03 PM , Rating: 2
In addition to BestBuy, they could sell them at large wholesalers like Costco and Sam's Club. That's where Vizio got it's start.




By denskyned on 12/9/2012 11:50:12 PM , Rating: 2
Only from Microsoft Store? I got my Surface RT from Mobicity in Australia. Delivered to Papua New Guinea.




In other parts of the world...
By Visual on 12/10/2012 4:10:49 AM , Rating: 2
Where I live sales are hurt by retarded price conversion.

Just when I kinda swallowed the already high base price announced in the USA (Not to mention the higher configurations... Who charges $100 for an extra 32GB of eMMC? How is that even legal!?) and tried to purchase one anyway, I found that the MS store website does not even acknowledge that my country exists. And when I tried to purchase from other European countries, the price was converted as if 1 USD is 1 EUR... and I don't know if they'll even ship to here.

In the mean time, it appeared in a few local shops at a price that makes you believe 1 USD is 1.2 EUR...

The beep?




Please Update the Article...
By Ramstark on 12/10/2012 12:12:48 PM , Rating: 2
Hi Tiffany, there is an almost-true rumor on the internet about the broadening of the distribution os the Surface:

http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/paul-thurrotts...

It's were all it started, would be nice if you update with this info.

A guy from a Best Buy in my city (Mexico) told me they are expecting them to arrive the next weekend...




Price
By hich08 on 12/10/2012 3:30:52 PM , Rating: 2
499$ is a high price. They should sell it for less, maybe 399$.




By ProZach on 12/10/2012 9:00:22 PM , Rating: 2
The commercial didn't touch on anything (no pun intended) other than the keyboard attaches with magnets. I wasn't impressed with the Riverdance style and zero mention of its functionality. Better to have left the keyboard attach magic for the Best Buy floor salespersons to dork with all day while waiting for customers.

Also probably doesn't help the basic package doesn't come with a keyboard, that's likely to annoy people who believe everything they see on TV: "That's expensive! And the keyboard costs extra?!" *gives sales rep the finger* "I'll have one of those iPadMaxis, or whatever its called!"




Surface Pro
By mchentz on 12/8/2012 11:03:53 AM , Rating: 2
I will be getting a surface pro but this article seems pretty good to me but almost everyone I talk to has not even heard of surface.




RE: Surface Pro
By Argon18 on 12/10/12, Rating: -1
Poorly Written?
By DaveLessnau on 12/8/12, Rating: 0
sigh, brokers and analysts
By MadMan007 on 12/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By EnzoFX on 12/8/2012 3:02:20 PM , Rating: 1
Actually in the case of Surface, their business model is very Apple like. Sure they want other manufacturers to bring their offerings too, but they would no doubt prefer people opt for their stuff.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By mcnabney on 12/9/2012 1:35:33 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, Microsoft is specifically following the Apple route.
Touchscreen only.
Not even an attempt at x86 compatibility
All purchases through their own App Store only
Higher than market price
High priced accessories
Non-replaceable battery

The only major non-Apple aspect of Surface is the expandable memory.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By Argon18 on 12/10/2012 3:11:08 PM , Rating: 2
"The only major non-Apple aspect of Surface is the expandable memory."

You forgot a few things:

1. Quality Apps. The ones in the Surface app store are all junk. None of the major players are in there.

2. A usable app store. Ever used the Surface app store? You can't find anything. The search is useless. As someone else pointed out, try and find the you-tube app. You can't. You get 1000 results, and the official YouTube app is buried like 400 deep down that list.

3. Brand recognition. Everyone knows Apple and the iPad. Ask anyone off the street about "Microsoft Surface" and you'll get a lot of "huh?" and puzzled looks.

4. Maturity. iPad and the apple app store are mature well developed products. The bugs are all ironed out, it's gone through several generations of improvements, it's a very polished product. Surface? Not so much. It's the bug-riddled pimple faced new kid on the block.

5. Customers. People line up down the street to buy Apple products on the first day of sale. Outside of internet forum fanboys living in their parents basement, Microsoft simply does not have dedicated fans that queue up to buy the latest thing - quite the opposite actually, most people refuse to buy anything with a 1.0 version number from Microsoft- they want to wait until a few service packs have been released, and the bugs ironed out- people are well aware of Microsoft's track record of selling half-baked products that simply aren't "finished". I.e. win98 is what win95 should have been. Win2k is what WinME should have been. Win Seven is what Vista should have been. Etc.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/10/2012 3:57:43 PM , Rating: 2
Ok AppleTool...

Love the retards who say "I don't generally like Apple" but you defend them constantly...

Pathetic...


By TakinYourPoints on 12/10/2012 6:37:50 PM , Rating: 2
Ok Cheese, show me on the doll where Apple touched you...


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By TakinYourPoints on 12/8/2012 3:51:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
they don't want to be a sole source vertically integrated device manufacturer


Right, which is why they're in the business of making vertically integrated devices like the XBox, the Surface, soon their own phone, and built an app store into their own desktop operating system.

Do you think they spent over a billion dollars marketing the Surface "just for fun"? It may not be the only thing they're doing, it better not be because business and enterprise is their bread and butter, but it is certainly where they are pushing the consumer side of their business.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By Digimonkey on 12/8/2012 9:43:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Do you think they spent over a billion dollars marketing the Surface "just for fun"?


One shouldn't think that at all. They spent over a billion on marketing Windows 8, not on marketing Surface.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By TakinYourPoints on 12/8/2012 11:30:54 PM , Rating: 2
You're right, a portion of the $1.5 billion being spent on Microsoft's ad campaign is specifically being spent on Surface. I just checked and it is north of half a billion, good catch.

In any case, that is a huge campaign, one on the level of what Apple spends. Numerous major intersections here in LA have Surface billboards, not iPad billboards, and they're running those TV ads like crazy.

Again, they wouldn't be making such a hard push if they weren't serious about it.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By Tony Swash on 12/9/2012 1:59:33 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
In any case, that is a huge campaign, one on the level of what Apple spends.


Actually Apple has spent less than Microsoft on marketing for each of the last four years, slightly less than HP over the same time period, and vastly less than Samsung.

http://www.asymco.com/2012/11/29/the-cost-of-selli...


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By MadMan007 on 12/8/2012 11:38:48 PM , Rating: 2
Key words: 'sole source' That's where the crux of the difference lies.

I did think about the XBox but Apple doesn't make a game console.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By augiem on 12/8/2012 4:10:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
*MS isn't Apple* and doesn't want to be Apple


They most certainly do want to be Apple, and VERY badly. Just about every decision they've made since Gates left has been to try to make the company and the products more and more like Apple. (LOL at the Microsoft Store KIRF. Can't you at least TRY to design something yourself??) Even years before Gates left, you could see the same trends in the evolution of Windows. Now far more than ever, MS just plays "me too" to Apple's game, though now they're trying to even push ahead of Apple on the course they laid out bu unifying their OSs into a tablet-centric, walled-garden console model with a software distribution monopoly. It's really sad. MS = Apple, Jr.

Ballmer and all these analysts are fools to think that with 30 years of multi-billion dollar profits every year, they need to completely reinvent the company to imitate Apple's short-lived, but glorious 5-year success story. Apple is in the entertainment and fashion business, which is an inherantly unstable and fickle market.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By TakinYourPoints on 12/8/2012 4:53:36 PM , Rating: 3
Microsoft has been playing "me too" to Apple for about thirty years, this is nothing new. The main difference here is that they're finally playing catch-up to new markets (portable integrated devices and high end laptops) that are far more profitable than the old desktop model that has sustained them for so long.

The execution with Windows 8 may be flawed but their thinking is sound, given the explosion in portable devices.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By inighthawki on 12/8/2012 6:56:01 PM , Rating: 3
30 years? Microsoft may have more or less stolen some ideas from them early on, but market share of PCs shows that for a huge chunk of the middle of that time, Apple has clearly been playing catchup with MS. Only recently with the iPhone and iPad have they really done anything that has caught on.


By TakinYourPoints on 12/8/2012 11:37:08 PM , Rating: 5
There is a difference between catching up on sales and catching up on execution. I only have about ten years experience with Macs compared to over twenty years with Microsoft operating systems, but in the time waiting for Vista there were many changes that happened in OS X (10.3 and 10.4 in particular) that Microsoft were clearly inspired by when it came to Vista and Windows 7.

You don't even need to look at the products (Windows, Zune, Surface), they were clearly paying attention based on internal email: http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/operating_s...


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By Argon18 on 12/10/2012 3:18:07 PM , Rating: 1
Apple playing catch-up to MS? Hardly. Microsoft is criticized for being late to market (i.e. playing "catch up") in nearly every market they enter. Tablets, Phones, heck even entering the browser market, Microsoft was mocked for being late to release Internet Explorer.

And when it comes to Operating Systems, Apple has leapfrogged Microsoft altogether. OSX is vastly superior to Windows because it's based on UNIX. The old OS9 and prior were crap - Apple had the wisdom to realize that. Rather than try to hack it together, they tossed the whole thing in the trash and started anew with OSX. It's light years ahead of the antiquated Windows OS model.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By wordsworm on 12/8/2012 11:52:25 PM , Rating: 2
I don't agree. Microsoft has been about giving power to the consumer. The consumer has always had the choice of buying software from anyone who wants to make it. Apple has a process. Microsoft made, and still makes, an OS that runs on any adequate machine. Apple does not.

I do not like Windows mobile. I am sure the next phone I have will have an Intel/W8 (desktop version) combination. I can run BlueStacks if I want to run Android apps, while having a real operating system at my disposal. I'd like to see one of those on the menu of a major telecom in Canada.

I haven't tried a W8 phone yet, so maybe it's better than W7? I do believe W8 is hands down their best desktop OS. It is simply the best OS I have ever had. It's fast, all the things that bugged me early on I've adapted to. I don't know if the naysayers to W8 have really given it a fair shake.

my 2c.

Just to add: I do see MS emulating Apple. They are going from the open garden that has served them well to the closed garden. I hope they will take a cue from Google and realize that it's the open garden concept which is the most popular now, not Apple's closed garden.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By MadMan007 on 12/9/2012 1:11:43 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 will never get a fair shot from the enthusiast community, but its slightly tweaked successor will be the 'best OS ever!' I think it's funny that enthusiasts are always happy to be bleeding edge in adopting new hardware, but then have a stroke and are unable to adapt when something changes with their Windows software.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By inighthawki on 12/9/2012 4:15:02 AM , Rating: 2
Probably because bleeding edge hardware is typically just faster. It would probably be a more accurate to compare a change in software to being like a change in hardware architecture. It's not just a faster version of the old one, it actually has differences.

A lot of people were (and some still are) hesitant to actually make use of their 64-bit processor by installing a 64-bit build of windows due to various reasons (Higher memory requirement, and there still exist a couple compatibility issues), despite it being an identical OS, just on a different architecture.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By JKflipflop98 on 12/9/2012 4:24:53 AM , Rating: 2
. . . but that's exactly his point. Those people that are still holding out on 64 bit O/S are doing so because they heard from their friend the imbecile that "64 bits have all kinds of issues running 32 bit software!" and now they have their mind made up.

They're the same idiots that never try anything for themselves, but are content to look at a screenshot and take someone else's word for it. "Bill says there's no start menu. Bill hates those big blocks." Bill the imbecile is failing to see those big blocks are the Start menu. You still get there the say way. It still works exactly like windows.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By inighthawki on 12/9/2012 2:41:50 PM , Rating: 2
I guess that's true, but maybe not the perfect anology to back up my point. Hardware enthusiasts don't always upgrade to bleeding edge technology.

It's common to do so with something like a CPU or GPU, because this years model is just the same thing with a 5% speed bump over last years model across the board. As soon as hardware changes, that's not always the case.

Look at the switch from HDD to SSD. SSDs at the time only provided a few benefits, but often had horrible random reads/writes, could be unstable, and would cost a fortune.

If suddenly hardware had a bunch of changes that changed the way we used it, it would have the same impact. Imagine everyone switched from x86 to a new proprietary architecture. Maybe it's faster clock for clock and more efficient or something - objective better than x86 in every way, but it can't run the software you want, it might be harder to develop for, etc. Not even the biggest enthusiasts are going to buy it because it's "new and better" if it requires such a large change.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/9/2012 3:52:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A lot of people were (and some still are) hesitant to actually make use of their 64-bit processor by installing a 64-bit build of windows due to various reasons (Higher memory requirement, and there still exist a couple compatibility issues),
64 bit does not have a "higher memory requirement"...


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By inighthawki on 12/9/2012 4:43:38 PM , Rating: 2
64-bit windows uses more memory than 32-bit due to larger binaries and extra binaries loaded for things like WOW64. Also 99.99% of the time a 64-bit application will yield a larger binary size, often due to the larger pointer size and additional opcode support.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By Tony Swash on 12/9/2012 10:30:09 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Windows 8 will never get a fair shot from the enthusiast community, but its slightly tweaked successor will be the 'best OS ever!'


Apparently the captain of the Titanic thought it's second voyage would be the best ever.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By Flunk on 12/9/2012 11:45:15 AM , Rating: 1
And apparently some people have extremely short memories.


RE: sigh, brokers and analysts
By TakinYourPoints on 12/9/2012 5:28:48 AM , Rating: 2
Neither desktop OS is closed, you can install software from anywhere. The inclusion of an app store doesn't automatically make it a walled garden.

Mobile operating systems are a different story, but it does aid the consumer in terms of security and quality control. The only things rejected these days are applications that have malware, expose user details to the developer without the user knowing it, or apps that bring down your device hard.


By TakinYourPoints on 12/9/2012 5:36:11 AM , Rating: 5
Another thing to note is that Google's "closed garden" isn't the most popular because of its developer ecosystem or user experience, it is because it is cheap for many people.

iOS mobile traffic, app usage, and developer revenue dwarfs that of Android despite there being many more Android devices out there. It is partly because Android runs on everything from dumbphones through featurephones through smartphones, and it is counted on all of them. iOS only runs on smartphones that are used online and run apps. Another reason is that iOS is simply more profitable for developers, there is less piracy (a benefit of the walled-garden), lower cost of support, and has more paying customers (again partly because iOS is all high end devices).

Microsoft mimicking Apple's approach in iOS makes sense for their mobile devices; it makes them accountable to give customers a good experience and it protects developer profits. Microsoft has actually been doing this sort of thing longer than Apple with the XBox game consoles, only difference being that Apple's mobile model gives a larger cut to developers than what is generally done on consoles.


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