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Different reports say different things about demand for Windows 8 touch devices

How are Windows 8-based touch PCs faring since their October launch? I guess it depends on whom you ask.

A new report from CNET said that PC makers are trying to meet demand for the Windows 8 laptops, tablets and hybrid convertibles, and stores are having trouble keeping them on the shelves. However, a report from The Seattle Times offers a very different point of view. 

CNET spoke with two different analysts on the topic, including Bob O'Donnell from IDC and Rhoda Alexander from IHS iSuppli. Both stated that vendors are having a hard time meeting customer demand for Windows 8 touchscreen PCs, and may even have shortages in the near future. 

"We've talked to a number of PC makers that are having trouble obtaining touch panels and some of the vendors I've talked to said they can't keep them on the shelf," said Alexander. 

O'Donnell made sure to add that non-touch Windows 8 PCs are not doing quite as well, though. This is only based on touchscreen devices. 

The Seattle Times had a very different report. It said that the low availability of Windows 8-powered tablet devices has led to decreased customer demand, and obviously sales. 


According to The Seattle Times, only five Windows 8 tablets out of a dozen that were announced are available on the market. Two of them, including Microsoft's own Surface and an Acer tablet, are only available at the Microsoft Store. Currently, there are only about 60 of those. 

This short reach has been affecting demand and sales of the tablets, it said. The Seattle Times also spoke with an analyst to get an idea of what's going on with Microsoft's latest addition, and the feedback wasn't too positive.

Wes Miller, an analyst at Directions, said that Microsoft has been hush-hush about its sales numbers, and that is never an encouraging sign. 

While The Seattle Times doesn't seem to think that Windows 8 devices will combat the likes of Apple's iPad anytime soon, this isn't the end for Windows 8-based tablets. Eve Jung, an analyst at Nomura, said tablet shipments will pass up notebook shipments in the second half of 2013. By then, Microsoft will have its Windows 8 Pro-based Surface on the market and more Windows RT tablets (the ARM-based version) will have finally made their way into stores.

While the number of sales of Windows 8-based touchscreen devices is unclear, Microsoft just proudly announced that Windows 8 upgrades hit 40 million in the first month of release. This surpassed Windows 7, which was the previous record breaker for Windows OS upgrades. 

Sources: The Seattle Times, CNET



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Retailers have failed
By arazok on 12/5/2012 4:17:26 PM , Rating: 4
I posted a similar story about my experience looking for Win 8 laptops, but I was again mystified on a trip to Best Buy to get my father a Win 8 desktop. He wanted a Win 8 all in one desktop for his office.

Best buy had 7 of them on display. Only ONE was Windows 8. The rest were Win 7. I couldn’t believe it. Who wants Windows 7 machines at this point?! To add insult to injury, the one Win 8 machine was not touch screen, but two of the Win 7 models were. WTF?!

We ended up buying a Win 7 machine, and then upgraded it to Windows 8. The only reason this wasn’t a lost sale is because I know enough about computers to do that. Most people would have just walked.

All I see is retailers and their vendors totally failing to give two hoots about Windows 8. They seem to figure people will buy whatever they put on the shelf.

Microsoft needs to copy Apple and move into the high end hardware space ASAP. Surface is a good start, but they need to make the laptops, desktops, and phones too. Screw your partners, they’re destroying your brand and costing you sales.




RE: Retailers have failed
By DiscoWade on 12/5/2012 6:51:53 PM , Rating: 2
I want a Win7 machine and only want a Win7 machine. In my opinion, the two best operating systems Microsoft ever made was Windows 7 and Windows Home Server. Which Best Buy was this? Every place I go only has the accursed Windows 8.

My hated for Windows 8 comes from using Windows 8. I miss Aero and I miss looking at a pretty eye-appealing UI. I can live without Aero, though I prefer not to. I can't live with a desktop/laptop OS pretending to be a tablet computer. Win8 can be fixed by simply remembering that different tools have different purposes. A hammer is not a screwdriver and tablet is not a desktop.


RE: Retailers have failed
By Pirks on 12/5/12, Rating: -1
RE: Retailers have failed
By kaalus on 12/6/2012 8:05:15 AM , Rating: 2
It would be great if it was the same. Sadly it's not. The metro is constantly getting in your way.

Useless "charms bar" appears when you least need it and obscures your clicks. When you try to select icons on your desktop by rectangle select from the top of the screen, you end up dragging your entire desktop instead! What's the point of that? There is no start menu. I have installed Classic Shell and it works reasonably well, but I am not 100% comfortable using a 3rd party tool for such a basic thing. And from time to time I have the jarring experience of seeing the metro interface on top of my desktop, e.g. when a system message appears. It looks so out of place that basically it ruins my day, constantly reminding me that I am a dinosaur running in legacy mode that will soon be gone.

My wife has a Windows Phone 7 (Samsung Omnia 7). I picked it and bought it myself for her. It's a beautiful device and very nice to use. I wouldn't swap it for Android or iOS. Actually I think Android 4.2 is worse than 4.0 (have it on my Nexus 7) and iOS 6 is worse than 5. Metro rules on touch devices and eats competition for breakfast, the world will eventually wake up to it.

But for God's sake keep the metro away from my mouse and keyboard desktop, it has no place there and I hate it! Win8 has so many nice features, it's a real shame it's burdened with this piece of crap.


RE: Retailers have failed
By Shadowmaster625 on 12/6/2012 8:52:28 AM , Rating: 3
What is wrong with using a 3rd party tool to do basic things? That's what has made windows so successful over the years.


RE: Retailers have failed
By Argon18 on 12/6/2012 11:30:51 AM , Rating: 1
You can call me names, as a child does on the playground, but I wonder why you cannot produce a valid argument for any of my points? Perhaps because the facts I post are unwelcome amongst the pro-Microsoft anti-consumer crowd? I think so. But facts, they remain.


RE: Retailers have failed
By Mint on 12/9/2012 6:09:54 PM , Rating: 2
What points? All DiscoWade did was make generic complaints, and I don't see any post by you up there.

99% of the time Win8 desktop is identical to that of Win7 (and better with dual screen due to the additional task bar), with pinned programs being the most frequently launched. If you need to go further, Win 8 gives a bunch of programs 2 clicks away, while Win 8 needs you to click the start menu, then programs, then usually a folder or two, then your program is there: That's 3-5 clicks. Press the windows key and type, and you get more search results on the screen than Win7. Both of these are due to Win7 having a small start menu for no good reason.

If you don't like Win8 apps, don't use them. Just make links for all your desktop programs to the start page, and you'll spend less time on it than you ever did with the Win7 start menu.


RE: Retailers have failed
By 91TTZ on 12/11/2012 2:27:51 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with the other poster. I installed Windows 8 on a laptop and all the touch screen optimizations get in the way. I installed Start8 and now the OS is great.

In my opinion Windows 8 would have had a much better reception if they simply gave you the option to choose desktop or tablet mode during install. It would have been easy to implement (Start8 is tiny), it would have silenced the vast majority of opponents, and it would have given customers a choice.


RE: Retailers have failed
By arazok on 12/5/2012 9:07:24 PM , Rating: 2
You know what, I can understand that. You have that right as a consumer.

But it's not in Microsoft’s advantage to have this fragmentation in the market place. They’ve chosen their path, and they need to execute cleanly for it to succeed. The mixed marketing, and fragmentation of the platform is frustrating, confusing, and leads to a general dissatisfaction among consumers.

I suppose retailers have the right to market what sells, but looking at this from a Microsoft perspective, it seems like it just damages the ecosystem they are trying to create.


RE: Retailers have failed
By Da W on 12/6/2012 10:37:38 AM , Rating: 2
What are you talking about? You can use Windows 7 desktop themes and even new dynamic Windows 8 desktop themes, all with beutiful translucent UI, pin on task bar and create shortcut on the desktop.
You have to live with metro to start a new program you haven't pinned. OH MY GAWD! This is unbearable!!!! /sarcasm
It's Windows 7 plus apps. Apps are cool. It's faster to take my e-mails with the metro app than opening and loading Outlook. I like the netflix app. Meteo app. Whatever, it's all the same apps you have on stupid ipads and droids. If people buy those, there might be a reason.


RE: Retailers have failed
By 91TTZ on 12/11/2012 2:33:29 PM , Rating: 2
I think what people are pissed about isn't that there's a tablet-optimized Metro mode, it's that there isn't also a desktop-optimized non-metro mode.

Obviously since Start8 is only 5 MB it's not hard to implement.

I wouldn't be in favor of Microsoft taking away your ability to choose Metro mode. I'm all for freedom of choice and think that you should be able to customize the OS to your liking even if it's not what I would choose. I do find it strange, though, that most of the Metro fans DO seem to be in favor of Microsoft taking away our ability to choose desktop-only mode with the start button. Why are they against freedom of choice?


RE: Retailers have failed
By rs2 on 12/5/2012 6:54:29 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Who wants Windows 7 machines at this point?!


Um, I do. Probably so does anyone who doesn't have a touch-screen and who also has an understanding of the differences between Win 7 and Win 8.

Win 7 is the better platform for the typical keyboard-and-mouse interface, particularly if you need to use your system to do any heavy content creation. Win 8 is for touch interfaces and content consumption.


RE: Retailers have failed
By Pirks on 12/5/12, Rating: -1
RE: Retailers have failed
By rs2 on 12/5/2012 7:51:57 PM , Rating: 2
I suppose you had the same criticism for anyone who preferred XP over Vista?

Microsoft's release cycle follows a very simple pattern:

XP - good
Vista - meh
Win 7 - good
Win 8 - meh
Win 9 - good (predicted outcome)

I'll stick with my Win 7 until Windows 9 is released in a couple of years. If you somehow find that prospect personally offensive, then there's nothing I can do. You're welcome to use Windows 8 as much as you want. I won't be. Neither will a lot of others.


RE: Retailers have failed
By Pirks on 12/5/12, Rating: -1
RE: Retailers have failed
By rs2 on 12/5/2012 8:26:47 PM , Rating: 2
There are *several* differences between Windows 7 and the desktop mode in Windows 8. To name just a few:

1. It takes an extra click to get into desktop mode (or registry hack to disable Metro).
2. No 'Start' menu in the desktop mode (without registry hack).
3. No 'Aero' theme in desktop mode, no rounded windows either.

Maybe those aren't a big deal to you. And maybe they are a big deal to some people. But that's all beside the point. The point is, there are factual, measurable differences between the desktop experience in Win 8 and the desktop experience in Win 7. If you want to deny this, then you're the one who is lying.

Besides, if having a desktop mode that is the "exact same" as Windows 7 makes Windows 8 "perfect for desktop", you're saying that Windows 7 is also perfect for desktop.

So if Windows 7 is not broken (because it isn't), and if the Windows 8 desktop mode isn't significantly better than Windows 7's in any way (because even you claim that the desktop modes are identical), why would anyone choose to use Windows 8 if what they care about is primarily desktop usage?


RE: Retailers have failed
By Pirks on 12/5/2012 9:01:40 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
It takes an extra click to get into desktop mode
Fixed by http://www.howtogeek.com/118258/login-to-windows-8... or http://www.howtogeek.com/118106/go-directly-to-des... or http://www.7tutorials.com/how-boot-desktop-windows...
quote:
No 'Start' menu in the desktop mode
Solved by a lot of Start Menu third party utils by third parties
quote:
No 'Aero' theme in desktop mode, no rounded windows either
Which improves battery life so it's a good thing overall.
quote:
why would anyone choose to use Windows 8 if what they care about is primarily desktop usage
Because of improvements in Explorer, Task Manager, Storage Spaces and general increase of speed and decrease of resource consumption, plus multiple significant security improvements described in http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012...

If you were not so technologically illiterate you'd know all these basics already, please go educate yourself a bit or else you'll join a company of clueless morons like Argon18.


RE: Retailers have failed
By MScrip on 12/6/2012 12:19:48 AM , Rating: 3
I'll chime in here.

You're right... Windows 8 has a desktop. And that's a good thing because all my software is written for XP/Vista/7

My fear is that Microsoft goes all in on the Metro interface... and ALL future programs become Metro apps.

I'm just not a fan of fullscreen Metro apps... especially when I've had no problems using traditional Windows programs since the 90s.

Yes... tablets will benefit from touch-friendly Metro apps... but you can pry my huge desktop monitor out of my cold, dead hands. (as you can tell... I'm a laptop/desktop user... not a tablet user)

See my example below... I much prefer the Windows on the right:

http://i.imgur.com/FOtqp.jpg

In fact... it's called Microsoft Windows.... not Microsoft Tiles

So yes... Windows 8 can act like the Windows 7 we all know and love.

My fear is what happens with Windows 9 or 10... especially since I didn't ask for any drastic changes in the way I operate my computer.


RE: Retailers have failed
By inighthawki on 12/6/2012 1:15:33 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft's biggest consumers use it for backwards compatibility, they would never do something as dumb as removing the desktop.


RE: Retailers have failed
By rs2 on 12/6/2012 1:59:57 AM , Rating: 3
quote:

Fixed by http://www.howtogeek.com/118258/login-to-windows-8... or http://www.howtogeek.com/118106/go-directly-to-des... or http://www.7tutorials.com/how-boot-desktop-windows...

...

Solved by a lot of Start Menu third party utils by third parties


Dude, I noted in my own post that there were hacks/third-party workarounds for those items. I don't know what you intend to prove by pointing out the same thing. Once hacks and third-party tools are thrown into the mix, you no longer have a valid comparison between operating-systems anyways.

Besides, what's the point of going through the manual tedium of installing some custom tool that makes Windows 8 act like Windows 7 when I could just use Windows 7? Windows 8 needs to succeed by providing a better desktop experience than Windows 7; providing/supporting an identical one is not sufficient justification for an upgrade.

quote:
Which improves battery life so it's a good thing overall.


And completely irrelevant for a desktop. I freely admit that Windows 8 is the better option in contexts where touchscreens are common, such as laptops and tablets. But we're talking about desktop usage here. And I don't need to have my desktop experience nerfed just so that mobile users can have more battery life.

At the very least, MS could have supported both themes, and automatically toggled between them depending upon device type and/or user preference.


RE: Retailers have failed
By blue_urban_sky on 12/6/2012 4:11:34 AM , Rating: 3
This started with you saying
quote:
Win 7 is the better platform for the typical keyboard-and-mouse interface, particularly if you need to use your system to do any heavy content creation. Win 8 is for touch interfaces and content consumption.

then to back it up you names your top 3 problems.
quote:
1. It takes an extra click to get into desktop mode (or registry hack to disable Metro).
2. No 'Start' menu in the desktop mode (without registry hack).
3. No 'Aero' theme in desktop mode, no rounded windows either.

Seriously this is what is needed for content creation? One less click, some pretty windows and a menu to launch your creation software?

All I ask is please please stop making me agree with Pirks.


RE: Retailers have failed
By Pirks on 12/5/12, Rating: -1
RE: Retailers have failed
By dark matter on 12/6/2012 9:06:16 AM , Rating: 2
I simply cannot understand why an obnoxious twat like you hasn't been banned.


RE: Retailers have failed
By Pirks on 12/6/2012 1:13:07 PM , Rating: 1
Ya you're too dumb to understand such complex things. Just deal with it :P


RE: Retailers have failed
By jvillaro on 12/6/2012 2:44:27 PM , Rating: 3
You seem to forget that Windows XP was very MEH when it came out and only with the service packs it became "really good"


RE: Retailers have failed
By inighthawki on 12/5/2012 9:24:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Um, I do. Probably so does anyone who doesn't have a touch-screen and who also has an understanding of the differences between Win 7 and Win 8.

Someone who really had an understanding of the differences would realize the huge advantages of Windows 8. The only two real complaints that a person could have with windows 8 is no start menu, and no aero glass. The former isn't a problem once you stop obsessing and realize that the start screen is really just a fullscreen and more valuable version of it, and the second one is lame, but certainly possible to live without. Otherwise, windows 8 is objectively better in almost every way.


RE: Retailers have failed
By Disorganise on 12/7/2012 2:01:33 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, the start screen isn't just a full screen version of the start menu. For a start (no pun intended) it scrolls the wrong way -left/right instead of up/down; my mouse wheel is more up/down and so are all my apps (Office, Firefox etc)

The start screens appeal is the 'live tiles'. These are completely pointless, especially on a desktop. In desktop mode I can't see the tiles so they provide no benefit. Even on a tablet, the metro apps are full screen and so the tiles can't be seen. What's the point? I personally don't go for widgets, even on my phone, but at least they can be configured as 'always on top', or you can choose to shrink your main app window to see the widget behind - if you need to have that information to hand. (If you don't, what's MS trying to sell with the tiles in the 1st place?)

The start menu does not obstruct my running apps whilst I use it. Maybe all I want is to start/run something - the win 8 start screen is extemely disorienting for stuff like that.

The start menu gives easy access to just about everything, including alphabetically ordered control panel applets (if you enable the setting to display as menu). The Win8 start page does not do this.

The start menu gives straight forward access to 10 recently opened items in each app (ie 10 under notepad, 10 under word etc etc). The start screen does not, so far as I could find.

During a CIO's meeting I attended, Microsoft claim all applications that work on Win7 will work on Win 8. Someone pointed out that Symantec Antivirus does not. So, ok, everything except AV. I have since discovered Acronis Trueimage and Acronis DiskDirector also do not work.

Windows 8 also does not have the XP mode that is available to Win 7 ultimate and professional users. I personally use this to drive my old canon scanner - it's difficult to find simple scanners today as they seem to have all gone multifunction which means big, bulky, heavy and requiring external power.

The only useful features I've found in Win 8 so far are the much improved task manager and the additional infor made available during file copies etc. These are not compelling reasons to upgrade.

Even on the phone/tablet side it's seems very strange to me that MS copied Apple and Google. The most frustrating aspect of android is the lack of windows (eg let me type a message whilst watching a video, or run the sms, whatsapp and mail applications together to copy info from each). "Windows" should have fixed this, but instead they too went fullscreen. Yes there's an option for a maximum of two 'windows', but why limit to two? It's called "Windows 8" not "FullScreens 8" after all.


RE: Retailers have failed
By Pirks on 12/7/2012 2:53:27 PM , Rating: 2
windows are useless on tiny tablet/phone screens, so just deal with it


RE: Retailers have failed
By 91TTZ on 12/11/2012 2:24:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Best buy had 7 of them on display. Only ONE was Windows 8. The rest were Win 7. I couldn’t believe it. Who wants Windows 7 machines at this point?! To add insult to injury, the one Win 8 machine was not touch screen, but two of the Win 7 models were. WTF?!


Retailers are catering to customer demand. They've had long enough to pitch Windows 8 to see if it's catching on or not. The place you went to obviously decided that selling Windows 7 machines was the better option.

With that said, the Best Buy near me has mostly Windows 8 machines.


RT
By RU482 on 12/5/2012 2:16:26 PM , Rating: 2
Surface RT is great in theory, but I find it to be laggy, and kinda clunky when compared to running win8 on an i5 system.

And damnit it won't run go-to-meeting, so I can't replace my laptop with it anytime soon.




RE: RT
By Argon18 on 12/5/12, Rating: -1
RE: RT
By FITCamaro on 12/5/2012 3:28:05 PM , Rating: 3
Because iOS had tons of apps available on day 1.


RE: RT
By Mitch101 on 12/5/2012 4:03:15 PM , Rating: 3
By their logic nobody should buy a Mac.

Within a month, the app store for Windows 8 exceeded that of Mac OS X
http://technewspedia.com/within-a-month-the-app-st...

according to the independent analyst firm Distimo, the Windows Store already has about 21,000 applications , far outpacing the mac App Store has 13,000. Moreover, if we take the 300 most popular titles in each of the two stores, we see that the volume of downloads in the Windows Store is three times larger than its competition.

Furthermore, the fact that 84% of the tools in the App Store are payment allows the purchase of tools is five times larger in the ecosystem, in relation to a competition where the market has 86% of applications free.


RE: RT
By Argon18 on 12/5/12, Rating: 0
RE: RT
By Pirks on 12/5/2012 6:47:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the number of apps in a desktop app store is meaningless
Tell that to Apple Mac Store selling desktop apps for OS X.


RE: RT
By Mitch101 on 12/6/2012 12:37:21 AM , Rating: 2
How about this them
Bluestacks may bring 700,000 Android apps to Windows RT
http://wmpoweruser.com/bluestacks-may-bring-700000...


RE: RT
By dark matter on 12/6/2012 9:07:20 AM , Rating: 2
So you buy a windows machine to run Android apps??

That does not make any kind of sense.


RE: RT
By Roffles on 12/5/2012 3:16:35 PM , Rating: 2
I don't understand how RT is great in theory either. I mean, it's a gimped ARM operating system to run on gimped ARM hardware. It can only be targeted at farty consumers because it lacks the power to do anything truly productive. For me at least, I'm not going to choose battery life over raw computing power and functionality. I feel the same way about all things ARM, specifically Android and iOS tablets. I understand ARM on a phone or packed inside a television because it's 100% functional for its intended purpose, but for a computer, it seems like wasted money.


RE: RT
By FITCamaro on 12/5/2012 3:32:35 PM , Rating: 3
ARM is getting pretty powerful considering its power envelope. Its no where near that of the latest Intel or AMD processors. But most people don't use those to their fullest extent. For the vast majority of users, in a few years ARM devices will be more than enough to do what they want. Browse the web, play basic games/Facebook games, watch YouTube, stream Netflix and Hulu, etc.

Intel will need to make serious improvements in Atoms performance and power usage in order to stay competitive in mobile form factors. Traditional desktops are being relegated to mainly PC gamers. For everyone else, a laptop or tablet is good enough.


RE: RT
By Roffles on 12/5/2012 3:52:48 PM , Rating: 1
I really don't understand your point. I said the problem with ARM devices like Surface RT is that they lack the raw power to do anything truly productive. So you reply and say they're getting more powerful and then go on to name a bunch of unproductive things that people like to do while they sit on the couch...things that could also be done on a phone or on a smart tv. As it stands, you would have to pair an ARM tablet with your x86 note/ultrabook if you want to do versatile CPU intensive tasks and still be mobile...and who really wants to add to their pile of electronics and add more redundancy to their lives?

Maybe if you give it 2-3 years with second generation quad-core cortex A-15 and LOTS of software development, you'll have a point. But by then, you'll have Intel's successor to Haswell mopping the floor with ARM. The writing is very nearly on the wall. I think Ivy Bridge Surface Pro is just the beginning of the end of ARM...people are going to quickly realize how much electronic redundancy they can remove from their pile of clutter.


RE: RT
By nafhan on 12/5/2012 4:32:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the problem with ARM devices like Surface RT is that they lack the raw power to do anything truly productive
Current gen ARM CPU's are about as powerful as high end CPU's from 6 or 7 years ago, and productive work has been going on in the computing world for decades. Most "productivity" requires enough horsepower to run a word processor.

Current ARM CPU's are easily powerful enough for what the vast majority of users do with their PC's.


RE: RT
By dubldwn on 12/5/2012 7:09:12 PM , Rating: 2
Yep I do CAD work and my company replaced my P4 with a C2D *this year*. You could certainly do real work with an ARM processor if the software ran on it. It would just take longer.


RE: RT
By dubldwn on 12/5/2012 7:12:24 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with Roffles that Intel could make that a moot point, though.


RE: RT
By othercents on 12/5/2012 3:16:43 PM , Rating: 2
I agree that Windows RT is great in theory. I don't think the ARM hardware has caught up enough to use RT as a desktop/laptop replacement. However the Surface Pro and other i3/i5/i7 processors can be if you ignore price and other available laptop options on the market. (I'm not sure if I would leave the Surface Pro running like I do my other Tablets.)

At some point though Windows RT should be able to be a laptop replacement for home computers and for certain individuals this is an option now. Until then here's hoping that the Surface Pro is worth the extra expense over a i5 laptop.


RE: RT
By Argon18 on 12/5/12, Rating: -1
RE: RT
By Pirks on 12/5/12, Rating: 0
x86
By Da W on 12/5/2012 2:20:01 PM , Rating: 2
For the time being the only good Windows tablet is a x86 tablet. There is not enough Windows store app to justify buying a RT.
But they are SOLD OUT EVERYWHERE!!! At least in Canada.




RE: x86
By mcnabney on 12/5/2012 2:56:26 PM , Rating: 2
I have this weird suspicion that there is no shortage of Surface tablets. They are just being held back in an attempt to create faux demand since many idiots think that 'sold-out' = 'must buy', because it must be cool if it is sold out.

Also, I know for a fact that the high number of Win8 licenses that have 'sold' is overstated. MS gave big discounts to major customers, corporations, and OEMs to buy licenses in bulk NOW, even if they wouldn't be used for over a year.


RE: x86
By sweatshopking on 12/5/2012 3:10:46 PM , Rating: 2
you know that for a fact? interesting! the entire rest of the world is speculating, but you have the facts! thanks for sharing them!


RE: x86
By geddarkstorm on 12/6/2012 2:04:27 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, there are facts instead of random misdirections from Microsoft and speculations like this article. Here's some from the major organization that tracks actual sales of things:

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-r...

You can see that sales of Windows 8 tablets (not looking at the Surface) are basically "nonexistant", in their own words. And that despite what Microsoft has tried to claim, windows 8 sales are well below that of windows 7 over the same post release period of time.

So, there you go, actual facts and data. Pretty nifty.


I like it, but...
By mmntech on 12/5/2012 2:39:41 PM , Rating: 2
I finally got around to trying Windows 8 on a touch screen PC, and I liked it based on the small amount of time I spent with it. Dare I say I like it better than Android. The hardware isn't sexy though compared to the iPad and Note. Price is too high and the app environment too limited right now. Not to mention the WXGA screen when high PPI displays are becoming the norm on high end tabs. Surface Pro is too much like the old style tablets that never caught on.

Windows 8 RT has a long uphill battle to make a dent in Android and iOS. Still needs a lot of work and a lot of good marketing. Decent, competitive hardware will go a long way to helping it.




RE: I like it, but...
By FITCamaro on 12/5/2012 3:35:14 PM , Rating: 2
They just need to go all in like they did with the Xbox. Spend tons of money to get the developers on board and applications out. Then once people are hooked, they'll be fine. But trying to just come into the market with a relatively empty app store doesn't work. Whoever orchestrated the Xbox's rise to power needs to be put in charge of pushing out Windows 8.


Touch screen is the sweet spot
By StanO360 on 12/5/2012 4:33:12 PM , Rating: 2
for laptops. I was very skeptical until I fooled around with one at Costco (Acer, $750, 15", i5), within a few minutes I was already used to the concept. My next laptop will definitely be a touch screen.

Personally though, I cannot understand why MS hasn't licensed Kinect for laptops and monitors, maybe the coming new version?




the proof is in the pudding
By crispbp04 on 12/8/2012 1:33:41 PM , Rating: 2
samsung ativ pro tablets are selling for $500 over retail due to demand and not enough supply. search ebay completed listings for the samsung ativ pro. Manufacturers failed on estimating demand for quality touch screen laptops and hybrid tablets with real hardware and win8 pro.




Not.
By Argon18 on 12/5/12, Rating: -1
RE: Not.
By chmilz on 12/5/2012 1:53:51 PM , Rating: 2
As people totally educated on tablets about Microsoft Windows Eight Surface Pro RT tablet and you'll also get a "huh?" response, because what you just described doesn't exist.

There's Windows RT tablets, and Windows Pro tablets. There's no RT Pro tablet.

May as well ask about Apple iPad iPhone 7 Touch S.


RE: Not.
By kleinma on 12/5/2012 2:34:22 PM , Rating: 2
Don't worry, he never actually has anything useful or valid to say. He just spits out whatever anti Microsoft thought springs into his head. Usually rehashing products that didn't do well for MS while ignoring every product they ever made that is used by billions of people.

So he will only rattle off things like kin and zune and make no mention of things like xbox or office, or that Windows 8 sold more upgrade licenses than any other OS in the launch time frame.

He can't even post a comment without it getting rated down into oblivion. Just take a look.

http://www.dailytech.com/CommentUser.aspx?user=286...


RE: Not.
By Argon18 on 12/5/12, Rating: -1
RE: Not.
By DukeN on 12/5/2012 2:52:44 PM , Rating: 2
Dailytech needs to implement an auto-ban feature for people who's posts are made up of "RealTalk", "YOLO"


RE: Not.
By nikon133 on 12/5/12, Rating: 0
RE: Not.
By ClownPuncher on 12/5/2012 5:16:43 PM , Rating: 2
RealTalk dawg.


RE: Not.
By Argon18 on 12/5/12, Rating: -1
RE: Not.
By kleinma on 12/5/2012 4:41:14 PM , Rating: 1
So that is why AAPL stock is down 37 points today and is on a trending slide downward from its once mighty 700 share price? The stock has dropped over 160 dollars in the past few months. Even with the iPhone 5 launch. The main reason investors are selling off? More competition in the mobile and tablet space, from Google, but more notably, from Microsoft.


RE: Not.
By Argon18 on 12/5/2012 4:54:55 PM , Rating: 2
What is MSFT at again? Oh right, languishing at $26 a share. Exactly where it has been for years and years. In fact, had you bought MSFT five years ago, you'd be down about 15% today.

And AAPL? Closed at $538 today. Up from less than $200 five years ago. You'd have more than doubled your money had you invested in AAPL five years ago.

What point were you trying to make about stock price again? If its that investing in Microsoft - either the stock, or the products - is a losing proposition, then you're right.


RE: Not.
By BillyBatson on 12/5/2012 1:54:47 PM , Rating: 2
I care. I just don't care about ARM based win8 tablets. I'm in the market for a Surface Pro and will be picking one up at launch. My ipad2 will go to my sister. What is there to smile about when someone mentions an ipad4? Most don't even know how it's different from a 3 other than a lightening port.
RT is just not the business at its current price point.


RE: Not.
By Nortel on 12/5/2012 2:11:12 PM , Rating: 2
I do believe many people are in the same boat as yourself. I have an ipad and cannot fathom a reason for slapping a hardcover keyboard on. I got the iPad for light surfing, some games and light email. If I was using excel, writing a novel, or using it for work purposes, a keyboard would become a must.

When running a full blown windows experience, having a keyboard becomes a far more valuable tool and that's what the Surface Pro brings to the table.


RE: Not.
By mcnabney on 12/5/2012 2:51:08 PM , Rating: 2
I've used Surface's keyboard.

Writing macros and functions in Excel or writing chapters in a book would be a nightmare on it. It is only marginally better than the touchscreen. It only makes it easier to write longer emails - a couple paragraphs.

To do real work you will need a dock, and a separate monitor, and maybe a better GPU, and more RAM, and ... screw it. Just keep your laptop and your iPad. They are for totally different things.


RE: Not.
By Kornfeld on 12/5/2012 3:59:09 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not following you there. There are two different keyboards, the Touch cover and the Type cover. My limited time with the Touch cover left a mixed impression, but I think I would almost immediately be able to match or exceed the speed I could get with an onscreen touch keyboard. The Type cover was pretty easy to use right away. It was pretty similar to using a keyboard on a subnotebook with a similar sized display and keyboard.

I think Microsoft should be offering some dock with the Surface Pro, like you would see on a similar system from Samsung, but it doesn't seem like they are going down that path.


RE: Not.
By Argon18 on 12/5/2012 2:46:45 PM , Rating: 3
Riddle me this Billy Batman - go hand those 10 hypothetical consumers a Windows ARM tablet and a Windows x86 tablet. Explain to them that they are the same, but different. Tell them apps on one are not compatible with the other. See the excitement and enthusiasm on their faces? Neither do I.


RE: Not.
By Da W on 12/5/12, Rating: 0
RE: Not.
By Argon18 on 12/5/12, Rating: -1
RE: Not.
By euler007 on 12/5/2012 3:24:04 PM , Rating: 2
So you're 100% Samsung?


RE: Not.
By Argon18 on 12/5/2012 4:57:58 PM , Rating: 2
Nope. No Samsung here either. My phone is a Sanyo, if that's what you're asking about. But I was talking about my entire home - no Microsoft or Apple products (of any type) can be found in here.


RE: Not.
By ClownPuncher on 12/5/2012 5:19:40 PM , Rating: 2
Just dildos and chocolate glaze, eh?


RE: Not.
By Argon18 on 12/6/2012 11:40:22 AM , Rating: 2
Says the "clown puncher"? LOL! Go punch your clown, leave the technical discussions to the adults in the room!


RE: Not.
By Ramstark on 12/5/2012 7:57:08 PM , Rating: 2
OMG you are definitely one of the WORST posters on DT. Biased comments, absolutely no manners and whats worst an "Against the consumerist way of life" You do realize you are on a technology site right?
Anyway, go and lick Tony Swash d%&k, you both are made for each other...


RE: Not.
By Argon18 on 12/6/2012 11:38:43 AM , Rating: 2
Wrong boy-o, I am not "against the consumerist way of life". In fact, when it comes to technology, I am the most pro-consumer person you will ever meet.

Which is exactly why I shun the crippled and broken products from the likes of Apple and Microsoft.

Microsoft locks you in to their ecosystem with proprietary file formats, proprietary networking protocols, and proprietary programming API's. Microsoft software is not compatible with anything but itself! It is the most anti-consumer software brand out there. They abuse the technology and their monopoly market position to lock you inside their ecosystem with no hope of escape.

Apple isn't much different, although Apple at lease does use open programming API's and standard networking protocols. The iTunes/iGadget ecosystem is designed similarly to Microsoft's software ecosystem in that it's a closed proprietary ecosystem that you are locked into, should you choose to use it. It's all or nothing. You can't mix and match software and hardware - you have to go 100% Apple or 0% Apple, because any other combination simple isn't compatible. Just like Microsoft.

Take off the shiny new product blinders that are worn by so many Microsoft and Apple die-hards, and set yourself free. Support only companies and products that use standard networking protocols, open file formats, open programming API's, and standard hardware. Dump the closed proprietary lock-you-in junk into the rubbish bin!


RE: Not.
By Pirks on 12/6/2012 1:34:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Support only companies and products that use standard networking protocols, open file formats, open programming API's, and standard hardware. Dump the closed proprietary lock-you-in junk into the rubbish bin
See, there is one simple thing that you'll never understand because your head has no brain inside :) The thing is: closed systems provide better level of comfort to the users. Xbox 360 is an excellent example, and iTunes too. You have closed ecosystem where hardware was designed for software and vice versa. The companies who make those closed systems put significant amount of effort in designing easy to use UI that does not require your beloved Linux geekery to operate. If you were not brainwashed by Linux zealots you'd see it for yourself. The easy to use UI and high comfort in operating the device UI is THE SINGLE BIGGEST REASON why Xbox 360 and iTunes are so popular. I'm all for rpm package management and ipchains easy to use rules, just like you are I'm sure, but these are things people from the street don't understand. You think ipchains is important to them or using open source OGG Vorbis is important? Yeah you keep dreaming, idiot. They want their stuff to JUST WORK. They do not want to deinstall crapware, this is why Macs are growing in popularity, because Windows machines are mostly cheapo junk loaded with crapware. They (consumers I mean) want SIMPLE things. EVEN I WANT SIMPLE THINGS quite often, that's why I prefer Toyota cars for example, because they are as simple as it gets. Start, put into drive, done. Nothing else to THINK about. I have OTHER things to think about, like my kids, my wife, my job, my groceries etc. Do you even understand this, ya Linux freak? Your fucking "open protocols" DO NOT MEAN SHIT if they are not provided with simple UI and they JUST work. I wanna buy a cheapo Linux PC in my local best buy, turn it on, get my facebook, visual studio, youtube, utorrent, steam games etc set up and ready to go. Can I do it with Windows? Easy. Mac? Easy too. Well, except for games. Linux? HA. HA. HA. Not even funny. Did you understand at LEAST something from what I said above? I doubt it. You are a piece of wood *sigh*


RE: Not.
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/5/2012 7:17:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
get a life along with the 10s of millions of boys like you who all have a Apple phone and all look the same and have no distinct personality.
FTFY


RE: Not.
By XZerg on 12/5/2012 2:42:21 PM , Rating: 1
the same was said when Xbox was brought to market. then it was Sony and Nintendo and Xbox got superbly slapped around. Where does it stand now?

So let's not try to dismiss any product when it just came out of the eggshell.


"We can't expect users to use common sense. That would eliminate the need for all sorts of legislation, committees, oversight and lawyers." -- Christopher Jennings














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