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Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad  (Source: BWOG)
Canadian government is upset by "unfair" treatment of its resident

Saeed Malekpour, an Iranian citizen residing in Canada, was given a rather stark reminder of the drastic differences between his home nation and his current working residence when he was arrested on a family visit.  

It turns out Mr. Malekpour had created an app for a client, which was later used to post pornographic images online, a serious violation of Islamic law.  Somehow Iranian authorities caught wind of this and the nation's Revolutionary Guard -- the nation's Islamist military/police organization -- arrested Mr. Malekpour when he was visiting relatives in 2008.

In 2010, he finally was tried before the nation's Revolutionary Court, a federal Islamist court.  He was forbidden to defend himself.  The court found him guilty and he was sentenced to death, in a decision harshly criticized by human rights advocates and Canada who complained that its former resident "failed to receive fair and transparent legal treatment."

Amidst the sweeping internet revolution that has occurred in recent years, the Revolutionary Court has made a special point of widely advertising cases like Mr. Malekpour's to "warn" citizens not to disobey the nation's strict Islamic law online.

Saeed Malekpour
Saeed Malekpour, visiting Niagara Falls, prior to his arrest. [Image Source: The Toronto Star]

But the accused has been spared of the most severe penalty -- death -- after making a plea where he "repented" for his actions.  The decision to suspend the death sentence was announced on Eid al-Fitr, the day at the end of Ramadan where people of Muslim faith commit to charity and peacemaking.  The holiday is known as a day on which Iran sometimes pardons prisoners.

Mr. Malekpour's lawyer announced the pardon on Iran's Mehr news agency, commenting, "After the sentence was confirmed my client repented for his actions. With this repentance, the death sentence has been suspended."

But the Revolutionary Court, according to Reuters, has not officially announced the suspension.  And even if it is, such decisions have been reversed in the past says The Toronto Star.  It points the case of Hamid Ghassemi-Shal, a Toronto shoe salesman who was accused of being a spy and sentenced to death.  Mr. Ghassemi-Shal was similarly reported to be spared, but his family was recently informed that the death sentence had been reinstated.  It is unknown if he has been executed, but in April 2012 his sister was told the execution was "imminent".

The stories serve as a grim reminder that while Iran has advanced remarkably in terms of industry and technology, it remains very much entrenched in archaic and punitive legal traditions.

Sources: Reuters [on the NYTimes], Toronto Star



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Save yourself
By Dr of crap on 12/3/2012 12:31:35 PM , Rating: 5
WHY ARE YOU GOING BACK TO THAT hell hole!

You were out and you know how crazy those religios zelots are. WHY GO BACK? I know your family might be there. Get them out of there!

Yet the Islam people say how kind and non-violet their religion is. If so why does the extreme of your religion hold high offices in power to inact stupid laws that make your religion look so bad??????

Sorry can't have it both ways.




RE: Save yourself
By TSS on 12/3/12, Rating: -1
RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/3/12, Rating: -1
RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 2:47:52 PM , Rating: 4
Congratulations on spreading an ignorant belief. Good people will do any manner of evil when faced with an appropriate stimulus. Evil people often use religion as a stimulus. A good man won't come home and kill his family out of a jealous rage when he finds his wife in bed with another man. Your axim is incomplete. Good people do good things, evil people do evil things, good people do evil things, evil people do good things. This is what we call life. But I suppose your little quote sure makes you feel like you're better than other people, which is the important part. I mean, if you absolutely have to reduce people around to into a status that is beneath you to feel secure, that's your issue. Just don't pretend that what you believe is absolute, incontrivertable truth.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 2:49:03 PM , Rating: 2
Blah - Correction

"A good man can come home and kill his family out of a jealous rage when he finds his wife in bed with another man."


RE: Save yourself
By Digimonkey on 12/3/12, Rating: 0
RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 3:06:20 PM , Rating: 3
Actually, the quote he has there states exactly that good people don't do bad things without religion. Read:
quote:
With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.

So, with that, we're going to have to assume that the poster of said comment, as well as the original source of it, have a childlike mentality. Like I said. Any stimulus will cause a good person to do bad things. And they can continue to do bad things. They can do bad things for good reasons, good things for bad reasons. The only reason axom's like this exist is so people can be smug in their ignorance.


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/3/12, Rating: 0
RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 4:53:00 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Tell me a more effective mass stimulus than religion that makes good people do bad things


Racism? Nationalism? Patriotism? There are any number of completely secular reasons that can cause good people to do bad things. And from a historical context, there have been many many *many* more wars started for those three reasons in the past hundred years than started for religious reasons in the whole of written history.

quote:
People who still believe in religion are no different than a kid who believes that Santa Claus is real and not a historical figure. Their mental development in that context stopped right there.


Thanks for proving that your entire belief system is built around a need to belittle people to make yourself more secure. Aside from the fact that what you state is both unsupported by evidence and outright bigotted, it is so blatantly ignorant as to suggest that it is your own mental development that has ceased.


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/3/12, Rating: 0
RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 6:02:53 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I say that's BS, and since it's your assertion, prove it.


Yeah, give me Israel and I'll give you all of the wars between the various European states, the Roman empire, the Greek age, the Babylonian empire, the various Chinese dynastic wars, Feudalism in Japan, so on, so on, so on. The issue of Israel is a tiny drop in the bucket of the world's history of war and atrocity. But it's the only one you know about, because you're an ignorant fool who doesn't study history.

quote:
Aside from the fact that what you state is both unsupported by evidence and outright bigotted


By the way, that was in response to your assumption that people who believe in religion have ceased mental development. Any attempt to prove a statement like that using science will ultimately result in the opposite being found true. People develop mentally in any number of ways, and the only way that stops is if people are in a vegetative state. I realize you think religious people are no better than vegetables, but that's just because your an unbelievable bigot.


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/3/2012 6:39:33 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yeah, give me Israel and I'll give you all of the wars between the various European states, the Roman empire, the Greek age, the Babylonian empire, the various Chinese dynastic wars, Feudalism in Japan, so on, so on, so on. The issue of Israel is a tiny drop in the bucket of the world's history of war and atrocity. But it's the only one you know about, because you're an ignorant fool who doesn't study history.

I know my history probably better than you and religion was very much a factor in many wars if not the root cause like in Israel now. There might have been wars that were not in the name of religion, but they would have happened anyways. Crusades would not have happened without religion, so there. Even if religion was only responsible for a single war, that would still make it a pretty crappy thing. We would not have conflict in the Middle East for example.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 7:48:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I know my history probably better than you and religion was very much a factor in many wars if not the root cause like in Israel now


Your comments thus far disprove your claim. But if you know history so well. Name 10 wars aside from the crusades and the Israeli conflict that were fought with religion as the sole motivation. No Wikipedia, no google. Right now, off the top of your head.

quote:
There might have been wars that were not in the name of religion, but they would have happened anyways


*might*? Really? It's verifiable historical fact that the vast majority of wars were fought over land, cultural differences, and just simple greed. Hell, one of the primary reasons for most of the European wars of the Middle Ages was just plain old boredom. Even in the Crusades, Religious furvor wasn't the only motivation, it was just the excuse used to get the people willing to fight.

quote:
Crusades would not have happened without religion, so there


Any time someone uses "So there" at the end of an argument I have flash backs to Kindergarten. But just for giggles, let's assume No religion existed. Aside from the Crusades, there were countless wars and battles between feifoms and kingdoms throughout the first 1500 years of the Current Era. If religion had not been around, the crusades still would have been fought. Just in a different location. Religion was an excuse that allowed the leaders of the day to move the violence out of Europe.

quote:
We would not have conflict in the Middle East for example.


Proof that you have no idea of the political issues that underly the Israeli/Palestinian dispute. That dispute has a lot more to do about tribal land rights and cultural history than it does Muslims vs. Jews.


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/3/12, Rating: 0
RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 8:39:15 PM , Rating: 3
There's no way you can prove the crusades wouldn't have been fought without religion. Welcome to reality, moron.

quote:
Atheism has not caused a single war.


Yet. But no matter how many athiests like you I talk to, they all seem to have this image in the back of their heads about rounding up all the religious people and putting them in concentration camps. And considering your apparently lack of emotional maturity ("So there," Constant expletives, etc.) would likely put you among the group that wants that.


RE: Save yourself
By Devilboy1313 on 12/3/2012 10:22:12 PM , Rating: 1
Borismkv, right or wrong, being an asshole isn't helping your case. You may want to stick to the facts and win your arguments rather than this "off my medication" attitude you are posting with.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 10:36:33 PM , Rating: 1
I'm arguing with someone who is an obvious asshole. I'm just trying to speak to him in his native language.


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/3/2012 10:28:48 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
There's no way you can prove the crusades wouldn't have been fought without religion. Welcome to reality, moron.

Yes I can, considering that they were one of the MANY wars fought in the name of religion. How can people fight in the name of religion if religion doesn't exist?

quote:
Yet. But no matter how many athiests like you I talk to, they all seem to have this image in the back of their heads about rounding up all the religious people and putting them in concentration camps. And considering your apparently lack of emotional maturity ("So there," Constant expletives, etc.) would likely put you among the group that wants that.

You've got us mistaken, the most we do is write on the internet. It's your brethren who commit murder every day, be it for the holy land, or against abortion, gays, etc. We just recognize you for the intellectual flyweights you are.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 10:35:25 PM , Rating: 2
I've said nothing of my beliefs. I could be atheist, agnostic, religious, but you don't know because i haven't told you. you are making assumptions based on what you want to be true. All I'm arguing is that your statement that religion is bad because of the crusades and israel is falacious using historical fact and abstract thought. You are the one trying to pretend you are better than someone because your beliefs are supposedly better.


RE: Save yourself
By ihateu3 on 12/4/2012 1:55:47 AM , Rating: 2
You guys are both missing the point of wars, its disagreeance!!! If one state or countries religion is different than the others, than that is a disagreeance between two cultures, which insights a war. other disagreeance's have happened throughout history which have inturn created war.

With that being said, most disagreeance's between nations involve religion, as they tend to fall back onto that, for their rules of whats right and whats wrong. Regardless war is almost always a clash of differences...


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/4/2012 10:29:19 AM , Rating: 1
1. You are an idiot no matter what your beliefs are.
2. Nontheists are generally and statistically smarter people:
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-26/health/liberals...


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 5:01:40 PM , Rating: 2
On 2:

Completely irrelavent to anything regarding the effects of religion, and in line with what Nazism was about.

We should eliminate stupidity right Cordu? The only way to do that is to eliminate religion according to you.

Uh oh! Let's get those Jews! But atheism never caused any wars eh?

Read into Hitler a bit. Speeches on eliminating God to become Gods. Speeches on elminating the inferior, to let rise the superior. You are right there going into the "religion causes war, we have to destroy it" argument, as well as the "atheists are smart" as if that holds weight to your argument for getting rid of religious people, or means they are more for war.

I've got a newslfash: Stupid people are not more agressive than intelligent ones. And religion does not equate to larger amounts of agression.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 6:18:45 PM , Rating: 2
But let's go to the record books on the supposition that Israel has been at war for thousands of years. Guess what, it hasn't. In fact, the ownership of Israel as holy land has resulted in, over the last 2000 years, the 9 wars of the Crusades, and the current Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Your lack of knowledge about world history is pretty astounding, given you consider Israel one continuous war. Israel was basically left to rot after being conquered by the Ottoman Empire in the 1500s. From after the last crusade, not one more war for the holy land occurred there until the late 60s after the Israelis had resettled the area.

So let's, again, go over wars in the 20th century, shall we? http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/massacre.html Look there. And it's not an exhaustive list.


RE: Save yourself
By cyberguyz on 12/4/2012 8:19:17 AM , Rating: 2
^ LO-fckin-L -> A class 'A' Pissing contest. ^

Guys, people are sheep. They are more than happy to be led into just about anything by those with the talent and willing to put in the effort to control them. Wars, Religions and Cults are the more prevalent example of mob (or if you prefer the gentler 'mass') mentality where a large mass of people can be manipulated into doing just about anything by a charismatic person with the talent to lead.

Look at the recent Iraq garbage. G.W.Bush says Iraq is bad, let's invade. And the next thing you know, people are looking at Ahmed at the corner store wondering if the guy is a terrorist that is going to pull out an AK-47 and start shooting them.

A very charismatic man in mid-1900s Europe convinced a large number of people that they were that the only people deserving of jobs in that country are those that were born there. He then proposed to get all the 'immigrants' that are taking their jobs out of the country so all of the jobs would be given only to those who were native to that country. A very charismatic man selling a very attractive ideal to people who are starving and had no work. While many saw through this and did not go along with it, a very large number found it very attractive and fell right in to the con. Next thing you know people were being killed by the millions. Anybody want to guess who that man was?

There are examples all through history of charismatic leaders intentionally or unintentionally driving people to atrocities by offering them what they want most. You can present a very attractive argument to people whose families are hungry or sick because you cannot afford do support them and have no other prospects. Convincing a man that you have an inside line to some omnipotent deity and promising him that you can guarantee an afterlife of never-ending bliss is a pretty strong motivation to a man that has nothing and is living in squalor. After all, what does he have to lose, right?

You cant categorize this as there are many root causes involved. All it takes is someone with an attractive ideal that is able to sell that ideal to people that have nothing to look forward to in their lives.


RE: Save yourself
By Noonecares on 12/4/2012 8:25:19 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
We have been steadily eradicating racism, and nationalism/patriotism does not work unless you're attacked yourself first. Also you're not doing religion a favor by lumping it together with racism.


Sorry to inform you but most religions are racist. There isn't any god(s) but mine(usually referred to as the most divine) kind of thing. Why can't all the gods just get along?


RE: Save yourself
By Jeffk464 on 12/3/2012 4:32:49 PM , Rating: 2
People aren't always rational or consistent. Someone can be good for their whole life and then flip and do something wrong. You look for black and white when most things are grey. Martin Luther King Jr would be considered a great moral man by most people and yet he regularly cheated on his wife, so is he good or evil?


RE: Save yourself
By Ringold on 12/3/12, Rating: -1
RE: Save yourself
By 0xSingularity on 12/3/2012 11:34:49 PM , Rating: 3
1. Unlike religious extremists, they didn't kill people because they were atheists.
2. No genocide was ever committed for scientific reasons. Hitler pretended to be using Darwin's theory of evolution when pushing 'Social Darwinism'. In fact, he banned Origin of Species in Germany because it contradicted him. Darwin actually said a diverse gene pool was healthier.
3. Atheists are statistically less violent and more intelligent.


RE: Save yourself
By GTVic on 12/4/2012 2:15:36 AM , Rating: 1
Somehow I'm not convinced that a person who publicly proclaims their intelligence from the proverbial mountaintop is someone worth listening to.


RE: Save yourself
By inighthawki on 12/4/2012 9:29:00 PM , Rating: 3
He never actually stated he was an atheist nor proclaimed himself as "intelligent."


RE: Save yourself
By Jeffk464 on 12/3/2012 11:57:43 PM , Rating: 2
We're a product of evolution, after all. We're just clever monkeys.

-fixed-


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/4/2012 10:18:11 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Millions died in their wake, in their push for a "scientific" society.

This is so DEAD WRONG that it's funny. They did not kill millions for their "scientific" society, they killed because of their lust for power.

Without religion you would not have the holy wars or 9/11. Also religiousness and conservatism has been linked to low intelligence in studies:
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/01/04/09...

Religion is worthless garbage for people who are too scared to admit they're not going anywhere after they die.


RE: Save yourself
By ritualm on 12/3/2012 1:50:12 PM , Rating: 2
Ironically, education merely lets them be more successful in carrying out violent acts against others and yet get off scotch-free.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 3:10:29 PM , Rating: 2
Scott-free. Scotch is a drink. /gramarnazi


RE: Save yourself
By inighthawki on 12/3/2012 3:30:09 PM , Rating: 3
Also a brand of tape. Don't forget that! :)


RE: Save yourself
By Jeffk464 on 12/3/2012 4:29:16 PM , Rating: 2
Catholics don't kill members, or non members, of the church who disregard the rules of the church. Small difference I know, but I still think it shows they are more evolved.


RE: Save yourself
By heffeque on 12/3/2012 8:25:52 PM , Rating: 2
Gays killings in Uganda. Those are Christians and are killing people because of that silly Bible book.

They even almost passed a law to give death penalty to gays: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ugan...

Thank god (FSM) that international pressure made them change it.

Also the Vatican city said that they were ok with death penalty for gays, so that doesn't seem to give good light to Christians, does it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2008/12/vatican_oppo...

Not all Christian countries kill gays... and not all Muslim countries kill gays.

Not that I'm defending the Muslims. Just sayin' that Christians aren't all that good either.

Also people here seem horrified by Iranian's laws but you should know that lots of people from first world countries see the US in almost the same way. The US still has death penalty (that's totally medieval), some kids learn in school that evolution is untrue (WTF?), that the world is 6000 years old and that men lived with dinosaurs, the health system is third-world level and the social inequality is second-world level, the intentional homicide levels are in par with Turkmenistan, Martinique and Yemen... heck Palestine does better on homicide levels than the US and it's in war!

The US might have a big army and big enterprises, but it's certainly far from being a civilized country when you compare it with countries like Sweden, Iceland, the Netherlands, etc.

Here's a good video EVERYONE should watch, specially whealthy people: http://youtu.be/cZ7LzE3u7Bw


RE: Save yourself
By Jeffk464 on 12/3/2012 11:53:30 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, the world should all strive to be like Denmark, Norway, and Sweden.


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 3:06:39 AM , Rating: 2
If you are so atheist you cannot fact check your own filth, I'll do so myself and insult you while doing it.

That Vatican crap you just posted was completely untrue, and is exactly the picture you bigots try to put on to the Catholic faith:

http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/vatican-calls-ho...

I will say this slow so you understand, the Vatican, AKA the Pope, the only and main authority of the Catholic chair, has never said, "in chair" (I bet you are too ignorant to know what that means) anything that resulted in the Crusades, and has not persecuted gays. I will also state that there is NO Catholic doctrine regarding cruel actions to gays. None. I am very well versed on Catholicism, and I won't have some pompous moron leak out facts that are full of it.

The rest of you on here arguing against religion grow the hell up. I'm an agnostic. People fight. If your argument is that "religion" causes it then "religion" itself must exist by default. It's logic, try it you atheist morons. It works out. It is human nature. I being an agnostic realize that most atheist who make the argument against religion are tools and it isn't all of them I might add. An Atheist by default must realize that ANY allegiance, government, secular, or otherwise has resulted in EVERY war. Not some, EVERY war.

Further I must point out: For the vast majority of the last 2000 years over 90% of the population believed in "a" god. Correlation does not equate to causation. Most people who believe in religion will actively cry out some dumb mantra while going to war. If they were not crying out to God they would be crying out about something else. This isn't an opinion. Religion has not always existed. Wars have always existed. Unless you ahteists on here are actually dumb enough to believe that man was peaceful before religion (history says otherwise) then shut the hell up and stop being bigoted against religion.

I've been around religious Catholics, Jews, Baptists, and none of them, not one, compared to the Zealotry of your average "intellectual" self God atheists. Without a "god" in belief, there is no person higher than yourself. It's survival of the fittest Atheists. Accept that. If it is true that there is no God, the most arrogant person with the most narcissistic disorders and reasons and potential to start wars for his own wants and needs is unleashed. Religion is a means to control the mental disorder of war in man's brain. We evolved to have it. I am not the only agnostic to believe this, and it was an atheist who came up with it.

Those who just always negated that belief, are the ones who are by default "insane" as they have always been narcissistic.


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/4/2012 10:14:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That Vatican crap you just posted was completely untrue, and is exactly the picture you bigots try to put on to the Catholic faith:

That may be true now, but are you saying people never persecuted gays in the name of religion throughout history? LOL Strike 1!

quote:
will say this slow so you understand, the Vatican, AKA the Pope, the only and main authority of the Catholic chair, has never said, "in chair" (I bet you are too ignorant to know what that means) anything that resulted in the Crusades,

You can't rewrite history. The Crusades were a series of religious expeditionary wars blessed by Pope Urban II and the Catholic Church, with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to the holy places in and near Jerusalem. You are DEAD WRONG.

quote:
Further I must point out: For the vast majority of the last 2000 years over 90% of the population believed in "a" god.

They also believed the Earth was flat despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary at some point in history.

quote:
man was peaceful before religion (history says otherwise) then shut the hell up and stop being bigoted against religion.

We fight a lot less than we did thousands of years ago due to civilization and progress. If there was no religion, we'd have had less wars throughout history. We'd at least not have the holy wars, and terrorism incidents would be a lot less too. We would not have 9/11 without religion.

quote:
I've been around religious Catholics, Jews, Baptists, and none of them, not one, compared to the Zealotry of your average "intellectual" self God atheists.

How many examples of Atheists can you give who killed because people believed in a religion. How about the reverse? Case closed.

quote:
If it is true that there is no God, the most arrogant person with the most narcissistic disorders and reasons and potential to start wars for his own wants and needs is unleashed. Religion is a means to control the mental disorder of war in man's brain.

Morals DO NOT come from religion. Most people in prison are religious, so us atheists are able to control our "narcissistic disorders and reasons" just fine without religion LOL.

Now that you have proven yourself to be a class A moron, we're done here. Piece of garbage worthless scum.


RE: Save yourself
By heffeque on 12/4/2012 12:03:25 PM , Rating: 3
No need for insults. You're mostly right on almost everything you said, but insulting is just lowering yourself.


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 2:26:40 PM , Rating: 2
"That may be true now, but are you saying people never persecuted gays in the name of religion throughout history? LOL Strike 1!"

First of all, show me the Christian or Catholic doctrine which specifically says to be a Christian you must persecute gays. Strike one for you my friend. People do all sorts of things claiming it is for religion to mask their own issues. They don't like gays. That's their problem, not religion. It's amazing how much you believe in the affect of religion, despite not believing in religion.

"You can't rewrite history. The Crusades were a series of religious expeditionary wars blessed by Pope Urban II and the Catholic Church, with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to the holy places in and near Jerusalem. You are DEAD WRONG."

Have you ever read Catholic Doctrine? Show me the doctrine which endorsed the crusades. Show me the pope declaration "in chair" stating that God stated we must do the crusades. Here's a newsflash: It didn't happen. Considering my first link, I think it's fairly obvious what happened. The Catholic church always "condemns" bad actions, even when they talk with a piece of trash who is going to war. That is not their endorsement of the war or crusades. Are you going to now tell me, as most atheists do, that the catholic church supported persecution of the Jews? Please.

"They also believed the Earth was flat despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary at some point in history."

The only purpose to my comment about the vast majority believing in God, is that they cry out what they believe in. If 90% believe in a god, of course 90% will try to throw out that their God supports their actions. They aren't going to say otherwise. There is no religious doctrine however, in Christianity which calls for Crusades, gay persecution, racism, or anything else you blame Christianity for.

"We fight a lot less than we did thousands of years ago due to civilization and progress. If there was no religion, we'd have had less wars throughout history. We'd at least not have the holy wars, and terrorism incidents would be a lot less too. We would not have 9/11 without religion."

This is a bold assumption and untrue, I'll get to that later, you have no evidence on it.

"How many examples of Atheists can you give who killed because people believed in a religion. How about the reverse? Case closed."

To name one, Adolf Hitler. To reference an example, policing of religion is still done in China. Most atheists seek to eliminate religion in order to become "gods". If you read about Hitler, you would know of his famous speech to do away with God to become the "gods" or our own destiny. Powerful stuff. It's what lead to WWII, not religion.

"Morals DO NOT come from religion. Most people in prison are religious, so us atheists are able to control our "narcissistic disorders and reasons" just fine without religion LOL."

I knew you as an atheist would say this, and was prepared for it. However, yes, they in fact do. The only ability to go outside of ones own arrogance is to believe in a power that surpasses oneself. Darwinsm does not allow for a human being to put aside his own mind casually, only in extreme circumstances (friends and family) however, religion makes it apply even to a casual stranger. I should also reiterate: The narcism is the obstinate belief that you have the ability to determine that there is no God. A Christian or agnostic by nature is humbled to nature. Religion is a part of nature, that's a fact separate from one's religious beliefs. I'm sorry kiddo, atheists don't humble themselves. By default, they are narcissistic. Religion came to be because humans needed to stop destroying. This isn't an opinion. If you believe in Darwinsm what else would cause over 90% of the population to believe? Because yay we just evolved to have religion so we could persecute and destroy everyone right! You're a genius my atheist friend! No, we evolved to have religion to end fighting, war, thievery, etc. As a balanced agnostic, I know that atheists have some good points regarding nature and evolution. Perhaps you should refer to those points, perhaps you should take some classes on theory as to why we evolved to create religion, and as a side comment, how religion progressed mankind, it didn't move it back. We aren't going against evolution right now kiddo. Stick to your atheist evolution beliefs got it? You're talking to a guy with a 156 IQ whoe doesn't like religious zealots. Do your homework before you speak.

Also, I refuse to argue with someone who says "LOL" doesn't know what "in chair" means, and cannot quote to me Catholic Doctrine. Have you even read it? Or have you read interpretations of past events from people who are anti religious to begin with (strike one on method of research)


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 5:35:10 PM , Rating: 1
Oh my god! You took the pope blessings of the war directly from Wikipedia!

Hahahahahaha! Word for word, did you copy and paste my friend? You didn't even look for the Catholic request for a war, who did it, how, or to see what the definition of "blessed" is.

Moving on: Catholic doctrine does not call for Crusades. People do and leaders do. Similar to how guns don't kill people, people do.

Moreover, you might want to research the Crusades a bit. The pope at that time was involved with many leaders, and you might want to know how crusades happened. The pope did not issue a decree that you were to join the crusade or you were not a Catholic. He basically authorized you under God to fight. It's more or less the equivalent of going to Iraq, but first asking your God if you should be going. The war was already coming.

www.crisismagazine.com/2012/crash-course-on-the-c rusades

This one still doesn't go over the Pope's role properly, but it does point out the bigger point of the war.

It was not about conversion. They didn't go to war for religion. As the person said above it was about holy land (which you can call religion but really that is tribal about land, which is still about land) the Muslims had been conquering lands for some time (as they liked to do) and the Christians fought to get it back. Yes, it was "religious" land. It was also "land" land. The crusades to get your land back would have happened either way. So I'm glad we amply proved, yes, the Crusades would have happened without religion.

www.catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/ who0010.html

Even though I know you would never listen to the other side, note that this states the pope was APPROACHED and BEGGED for help. Leaders came to the Pope often. The Pope authorized them to go to war with God's consent. This is much different than you portrayed it. Again, this would mean Obama says "we need to stop Libya from attacking people, do I have your ok to go to war?" and the Pope would possibly even say "NO" therefore the religion was a BLOCK as I stated before. Not a cause.

Do, some, research, on the crusades.


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 5:47:59 PM , Rating: 2
Well more interestingly, the pope actually did decline Bush's request for his endorsement of the war with Iraq.

The modern day equivalent to the crusades exactly proves my point. People approach the pope all the time for his "endorsement" on their war.

Those wars are rarely religious wars. Religious land is still land.


RE: Save yourself
By heffeque on 12/4/2012 11:53:43 AM , Rating: 2
You didn't even read your own article.

What I said is correct:

The Vatican city opposed the UN's call for the decriminalization of homosexuality... and what you added is that after that they issued their own call... but NEVER signed any legal document about it in the UN.

So, they are legally in favor of criminalizing homosexuality (medieval mentality, same as muslims) but later on they put a little sign saying... "well, not so much". Yeah, like that's going to help.

"I will also state that there is NO Catholic doctrine regarding cruel actions to gays."

Legally favoring criminalizing homosexuality seems like a cruel thing in my book. We must be using different definitions of "cruel".

Still... agnostics are really atheists that aren't versed in science enough or are just too shy to oppose religious people.

Here's a good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

It's interesting how most counter arguments to Russell's teapot are similar to how most ancient gods appeared: the teapot is one tiny thing and it's something physical and unique, and god is a "grand and big idea" AKA "we don't understand it, so it must be a god".

An Paul Chamberlain's comeback is "not all positive truth claims bear a burden of proof while negative truth claims do not", but fails to explain why gods should be exceptions to the "rule".

Anyway... it's not like I'm going to change your mind about your views and you're not going to change mine, so this seems like a dead end discussion.


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 2:37:35 PM , Rating: 2
You didn't read the article.

They stated their problem was the definition of one's sexuality being part of a government was not ok. The way to do away with criminal behavior for laws is to do away with a law that says "we will kill you for being gay" not to write a new law that says "we will not kill you for being gay". The article explicitly states the church was against persecution for the reasoning of why not to put the definition in.

They are not in favor of criminalizing homosexuality.

I will reiterate: Three is no catholic doctrine regarding cruel actions to gays. Given that you just cited to me what a pope "said" about decriminalizing gays (and were wrong to it) I know that you are inept. Quote Catholic doctrine to me. The pope says when he is speaking in "chair" which is documented and accepted as catholic "law" which I use the word "doctrine". Quote the doctrine please. Quote the law. You don't even know them? So shut the hell up.

Agnostics are not atheists that aren't versed in science enough. I'm sorry, my brother worked on the Haydron Particle Accelerator, perhaps you've heard of it? The men (and women) who worked with him said there is absolutely no scientific measure to disprove the existence of a God. There is to disprove the Bible (ergo why I have no religion). The reason for being an intelligent agnostic is that you know there could be one, could not be one, and to state you know there isn't one is arrogance. But thanks for trying out on that "speaking for an entire people" (as you do for religion) thing for agnostics as well!


RE: Save yourself
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/4/2012 3:08:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Haydron Particle Accelerator
Apparently you haven't heard of it either since there is no Haydron Particle Accelerator.

There is this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 4:54:06 PM , Rating: 2
Cheese:

I have to assume you aren't serious:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2011/12/27/n...

There is no particle accelerator? Or were you referring to the "name" I used? Are you familiar with how one of these works? The fact that you would even try to debate me on physics, physics of all things and then claim that a Haydron Particle Accelerator doesn't exist? Your credibility is shot my friend. The majority of the people my brother works with calls it a particle accelerator because of what it does. Particles colliding happens all the time. The point of a Haydron Particle Accelerator, is to accelerate the particles to extreme speeds. That is what one of these does. Accelerates, and then collides particles.

An atheist as usual who is good with google, but not with real world scenarios.


RE: Save yourself
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/4/2012 7:42:18 PM , Rating: 2
Way to miss the point... I know there is a collider, the LHC, or Large Hadron Collider.

Also, the fact is, I am not debating anything.

quote:
Your credibility is shot my friend.
No, not really. I really don't care what you think I am or am not. I pointed out there is no such thing as a ha Y dron collider, but the HADRON collider.

Yes, I know what it does.

An asshole as usual, jumping to conclusions when you obviously didn't see the point which was quite obvious.

Also assuming I am atheist... way to spread your ignorance.


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 8:39:17 PM , Rating: 2
Assuming based on your pointless comment.

Your little comments here are absurd and not worth my time "nark nark you didn't spell hadron right!". Great productive little post there boy.


RE: Save yourself
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/4/2012 8:40:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Assuming based on your pointless comment. Your little comments here are absurd and not worth my time "nark nark you didn't spell hadron right!". Great productive little post there boy.
I care? No...


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/5/2012 11:52:17 AM , Rating: 2
Then why did you post? You sound like a teenager. One has to care to make a post about spelling.


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 4:55:50 PM , Rating: 2
Cheese:

I appreciate the trying to call me on the bluff but it wasn't one, my brother's thesis paper was on how to account for dark matter.

This guy is my inspiration in life. And it's not fake. So acussing me of that will get me upset.


RE: Save yourself
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/4/2012 3:10:09 PM , Rating: 2
Also..

quote:
no scientific measure to disprove the existence of a God
And none to prove it either...


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 4:57:55 PM , Rating: 2
And again missing the point cheese:

I wasn't making the argument in favor of a God. Read my words before commenting ignorantly.


RE: Save yourself
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/4/2012 7:33:37 PM , Rating: 2
I read your words...


RE: Save yourself
By heffeque on 12/6/2012 11:49:35 AM , Rating: 2
Well... maybe there's no way to scientifically disprove the existence of a God in general (because everybody has their own definition of God, sense it's an imaginary thing), but there's plenty of ways to disprove today's main religions. That should be enough to sway Christians and Muslims to science... but it isn't, because it's a matter of faith, not a matter of reasoning and reality.


RE: Save yourself
By boeush on 12/4/2012 1:26:11 PM , Rating: 3
Catholics no longer institutionally kill members, or non-members of the church who disregard the rules of the church...

There, fixed it for you. Let's not forget the Dark Ages, the Inquisition, the witch hunts and witch burnings, the persecutions of Pagans, the antisemitic Pogroms, the Protestant vs. Catholic wars, the Catholic vs. Muslim wars and massacres, etc.


RE: Save yourself
By tjcinnamon on 12/3/2012 4:37:56 PM , Rating: 3
I think we can all agree that Atheists and Agnostics are the best.


RE: Save yourself
By Jeffk464 on 12/3/2012 4:44:09 PM , Rating: 1
Name one atheist that has ever committed an atrocity in the name of nothing. You have to believe in a cause to get all worked up over something.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 5:19:41 PM , Rating: 2
Mao Tse Tong?


RE: Save yourself
By Jeffk464 on 12/3/2012 11:55:43 PM , Rating: 2
His belief was in Communism.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 5:20:13 PM , Rating: 1
Joseph Stalin?


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/3/2012 5:36:57 PM , Rating: 2
Typical idiot from AK. Stalin, Pol Pot did not commit mass murder to further the cause of Atheism, but for their own personal gain. That is very different than the Crusades or the Inquisition, where the objective was to further the cause of a specific religion.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 5:54:25 PM , Rating: 1
Cute. But guess what, it's still atrocity in the name of nothing. That's what was asked for.


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/3/2012 6:00:13 PM , Rating: 3
It is not in the name of nothing. It's in the name of making Stalin/Pol Pot more powerful. They did not murder people because they wanted to convert their belief systems and make them worship fake false crap, but only for more power for themselves.

That is not "in the name of nothing" no matter how hard you try to say otherwise.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/12, Rating: 0
RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/3/2012 8:30:25 PM , Rating: 2
I see we have found the limits of your intelligence since you can't refute my point. No wars have ever been fought to advance the cause of nontheism. Plenty of wars have been fought to advance the cause of various religions in the world and they are still being fought today. This alone makes non-theism better than any religion.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 8:48:53 PM , Rating: 2
Alright then. How's this. He states that no atheist has ever committed atrocities in the name of nothing. I'll spell this out for you, since you need a little help. To "fight in the name of" was originally coined as a phrase to mean that someone is entering combat as a replacement for someone who is incapable of fighting for themselves. Using this meaning of the phrase, it is possible to say that Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao were acting in the name of no one and nothing because they were not fighting as a replacement for something. Therefore, they weren't fighting in the name of something. And, through the miracle of the English Language, they were fighting in the name of nothing.

quote:
This alone makes non-theism better than any religion.


Better how? You act like the world is full of binary choices. There is no objective way to determine which is actually better or not. If number of wars caused by one ideology or the other is the only reason for you to determine worth, you're an idiot. Considering the fact that atheism as a movement has existed for less than a century, the idea that it is better than anything has yet to be determined. Cause guess what, it's never been the primary idealism in any culture on earth. Oh wait, China, Soviet Russia, and North Korea are/were all staunchly Atheistic nations...they're a joy to live in, too (That's sarcasm in case you're not familiar).


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/3/2012 10:13:20 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
. To "fight in the name of" was originally coined as a phrase to mean that someone is entering combat as a replacement for someone who is incapable of fighting for themselves. Using this meaning of the phrase, it is possible to say that Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao were acting in the name of no one and nothing because they were not fighting as a replacement for something.

This makes no sense. You know it's BS and reaching for extremely creative interpretations when you fully understand what he meant. No Atheist dictator killed in the name of achieving Atheism.

quote:
Better how? You act like the world is full of binary choices. There is no objective way to determine which is actually better or not. If number of wars caused by one ideology or the other is the only reason for you to determine worth, you're an idiot.

Wars kill people, and killing people is one of the worst things one can do. Any other "benefit" religion has will be miniscule compared to this huge negative, so you are the moron here. I mean what do you expect from people who vote in Sarah Palin for governor.

quote:
Considering the fact that atheism as a movement has existed for less than a century, the idea that it is better than anything has yet to be determined.

LOL, you are clueless. Atheism is older than all of the big 3 religions as it has been around as a philosophy since 5th century BC. But don't you worry about stressing your feeble mind about such things, just believe and bend over, and the Pastor will take care of you.

Typical religious idiot full of ignorance and blind belief because mommy and daddy told you God and Jesus were real every day for the first 18 years of your life. You lack the mental capacity and courage to admit that when you die, your body's going to decompose and that's it, to break free of stupid fairy tales.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 10:39:43 PM , Rating: 1
Oh yeah...I lived in alaska about 6 years ago for 6 months never bothered to update my info. good to know you are also enough of a bigot to hate people because of their geographical location. Typical atheist. Full of irrational hatred.


RE: Save yourself
By ritualm on 12/4/2012 4:06:59 PM , Rating: 2
borismkv: black people say the n-word so often in public and in pop-culture, it stopped having any offensive meaning anymore. Yet when other people say the n-word, they are immediately decried as racist.

You are full of misplaced hatred.


RE: Save yourself
By Jeffk464 on 12/4/2012 12:02:57 AM , Rating: 2
atheism is a non movement


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 3:24:32 AM , Rating: 1
Corduroygt:

Stalin didn't fight in the name of a religion. Or atheism.

But I can guarantee you a block comes with being religious against yourself. That block against yourself is eliminated with Atheism. By your own admission they fought for "more power for themselves.".

People always fight. That's what humans do. The only possible block is to remove "power" from oneself. The only method to do so is through a belief. Which belief do you believe does a better job than religion?

Let's take some actual biblical theory, not how people used them (as people regardless of religion will behave how they want to behave)

Don't lie
Don't cheat
Don't kill
Don't take another man's wife
Don't take fruits of the body take fruits of the soul (meaning do things that are good for others and the community, not for you)
A rich man can't get into heaven (you atheists seem to agree here in a big way)
And the biggest one: You are nothing, your opinions are nothing, honor three laws, love your god, love your self, and love your neighbor as you would yourself, your brothers and sisters are your family.

I would go on, but seriously. The fact that you deface religion...In this manner and believe in the impossibility of a God shows enough about your mental disorder. I understand Christians. They want to believe in something outside themselves. I am an agnostic, I can't in good faith say anyone can prove a god exists. I don't like religious extremists. But of all of them, the atheist route causes the most damage. This isn't even a debate.


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/4/2012 10:24:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
But I can guarantee you a block comes with being religious against yourself. That block against yourself is eliminated with Atheism. By your own admission they fought for "more power for themselves.".

1. Morals do not come from religion.
2. There were plenty of religious tyrants throughout history.

All of the "biblical theory" stems from the golden rule that predates the big 3 religions. It's not something divine, it's just philosophy based dogma. Dogmas impede critical thinking and are bad for society.

quote:
In this manner and believe in the impossibility of a God shows enough about your mental disorder

Believing in a GOD with ZERO scientific evidence shows who has the mental disorder and it's not atheists. Atheists just say, there isn't scientific evidence for a god and they're open to changing their views the moment scientific evidence is discovered in the favor of the presence of a god.


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 2:44:45 PM , Rating: 2
"Believing in a GOD with ZERO scientific evidence shows who has the mental disorder and it's not atheists. Atheists just say, there isn't scientific evidence for a god and they're open to changing their views the moment scientific evidence is discovered in the favor of the presence of a god."

The word for that is agnostic.

Regarding 1 and 2: Wrong. Darwinsm kicks in by default. Morality cannot be as strong due to that. Darwinsm actually supports the theory of how "theism" came to be. "theism" was a means to progress morality in humans, and advert us from killing each other.

Yes, the golden rule pre-dates them. No, the golden rule didn't work, or religion would not have survived for over 2,000 years. Mayans needed a God. Indians needed a God. Humans need belief, that's what it comes down to. It is reverting back to a devolved state to abandon belief, which is scientifically proven to have originated as a block from our darker sides.


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/4/2012 6:38:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The word for that is agnostic.

You can have agnostic atheists, etc. and a scale that defines the likeliness of there being a god. However, all religion is man made and should not be treated like it has any divine base, which it clearly does not.

Also ANY further arguments with you and the Catholic Church are instantly pre-empted by this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5OMNPmoVAw

quote:
Yes, the golden rule pre-dates them. No, the golden rule didn't work, or religion would not have survived for over 2,000 years. Mayans needed a God. Indians needed a God. Humans need belief, that's what it comes down to. It is reverting back to a devolved state to abandon belief, which is scientifically proven to have originated as a block from our darker sides.

Show me this "scientific proof" will you, idiot. People needed God in the past due to many things they could not scientifically explain. Now we can explain a great deal many things and science WORKS, while religion does not. Therefore, still believing in religion is only reserved for either uneducated minds who will cast away their shackles if they get a chance to learn, or feeble and ignorant minds.


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 8:44:06 PM , Rating: 1
The word for open to the possibility of a God is agnostic.

Moving forward: you honestly think you have credibility when your opinion of the crusades came from a copy paste of wikipedia and you now are giving a YouTube post?

Really dude. The other guy already kicked your ass. You are clueless in matters of catholicism.

List to me catechisms now. Do it. If you are versed you should know them.

I already explained in my own words why you're dead wrong and pieced together logically sound points.


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/4/2012 10:05:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Moving forward: you honestly think you have credibility when your opinion of the crusades came from a copy paste of wikipedia and you now are giving a YouTube post?

Definitely more credibility than you, at least I wasn't raped by a pastor when I was a kid because I never went to church. Also that YT video shows Hitchens and Fry successfully arguing why the Catholic Church has been an overwhelmingly negative influence on human history and they are much much smarter than you can ever hope to be. Just dismissing it because it's on YT isn't doing you any favors, you scum.

quote:
You are clueless in matters of catholicism.

I never said I know a lot about it. I only know that it states the presence of God and Jesus as truth, and also the atrocities that people commit in its name. We know the first part is pure BS as there is no proof of God or even Jesus being anything more than some guy, so why should anyone waste their precious time learning about it? It's just fiction and a very boring one at that, so it's not worth spending any time on. It's silly to believe in books of fiction as if they're real, next thing you know, you'll think Superman is real too.

In my belief system, my only assertion is that there is no proof of God and the probability of having one is the smallest non-zero real number. If that makes me agnostic in your book, so be it. For me, the probability of God is so small that I don't think about it, the same way I don't think about the probability of the sidewalk next to me spontaneously combusting, so I call myself an Atheist, as Agnostic implies a 50/50 stance on the existence of god. My stance is 99.99999999/0.000000001 in favor of no God.


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/5/2012 11:58:40 AM , Rating: 2
Agnostic does not imply the 50/50 split.

In order to comment on the crusades you must know the triggers in the church that caused it. In "religion" that you believe caused it. You didn't imply you were knowledgable in catholicism, you directly stated it.

You don't know who asked the popes to help with Muslims, you don't even know about the Iraq comment I made, you're not connecting dots, and it's absurd. The guy who debated with you above said the wars would have happene regardless to which you said there was no proof. Well the simple proof is in knowing how the catholic church operates and who asked for the pope's help and his role. The pope has been asked for an ok for many wars, to garner support. The world leaders would have gone either way, as we saw with George W. knowing how a religion triggers is important to knowing its affect. If you can't quote which biblical scripture said to go to war, or which catechism triggers the crusades, or which actual part of the religion itself dictated thou shalt go to war or thou aren't a catholic, you aren't versed in the crusades.

The rest I won't comment on, as I feel like in beating on a child.


RE: Save yourself
By corduroygt on 12/5/2012 12:14:21 PM , Rating: 2
If there wasn't the Church and the endorsement, the crusades would have been much less popular and perhaps abandoned entirely due to the failure of rounding up enough idiots to go fight. It does not matter what Catholicism REALLY says, only thing matters is that religion is brainwashing dogma, and enables people to commit atrocities by preventing them from thinking rationally. It doesn't mean anything even if your religion says "don't go to war" when your holy book has enough contradictions combined with the hell/heaven punishment/reward system, it will be twisted to make people go to war as it has been done in the past.

quote:
The rest I won't comment on, as I feel like in beating on a child.

What fantasy world do you live in and what are you smoking? That video of Hitchens and Fry will refute anything you will EVER have to say in your short pathetic life about the Catholic Church.


RE: Save yourself
By crazypostalbob on 12/4/2012 2:51:53 PM , Rating: 2
By the way, I should also note:

I'm agnostic. Swing and a miss on trying to label me a "believer. Also note: I have actually kicked the tar out of Catholics on their own code. I found the catholic doctrine which states that divorce is actually not only a possibility, you are perfectly entitled to it. I happen to know Catholics who have done it. I don't disagree that there are many morons in the Catholic faith who don't even know their religion. I would rather not listen to them, and do the research myself though. I'm not biased to either side. There is a reason why I'm agnostic. I don't like religious zealots. Now on the pure positive affects of religion, I sometimes wish it affected me in that way. Though it does not.

Also to reiterate: Atheists are already decided. That is not being open to the idea.


RE: Save yourself
By borismkv on 12/3/2012 5:21:06 PM , Rating: 1
Pol Pot?


RE: Save yourself
By Devilboy1313 on 12/3/2012 10:24:46 PM , Rating: 2
George W Bush? Wait that was for oil.


RE: Save yourself
By Noonecares on 12/4/2012 7:44:41 PM , Rating: 2
For oil, for Haliburton, for opium, for 'Merica, and the best one.... For Weapons of Mass Destruction.


RE: Save yourself
By Strunf on 12/4/2012 7:42:48 AM , Rating: 2
lol I think we can all agree that people will put forth any reason whatsoever for as long as it fits their agenda... religion is used and abused by some but if there was no religion it would be something else, like skin color, hair color, ancestry and what not. Saying that religion is the source of all evil is no different than saying the same about guns. It's in the human nature to fight "others" and we have been doing it since long before any religion, either it was for food, females and what not, pick 10 kids less than 5 years old throw a nice toy in the middle and see if they will happily share it...


RE: Save yourself
By TSS on 12/5/2012 1:24:51 PM , Rating: 2
Only agnostics.

Atheism is radical in itself as well. It's not healthy to belive in nothing at all either, as by consequence, your actions during this life do not matter. That has some effect on the smart ones i really don't want to see stupid people get that in their head.

I like agnostics because they are capable of believing in both a higher power as well as the real world. I mean, they don't shut out possibilities. Because, the truth is, none of us will ever know the truth, no matter how hard we look. Atleast agnostics can acknowledge this and get on with living, rather then telling other people how to live.


RE: Save yourself
By bug77 on 12/3/2012 5:53:12 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
How many people has the pope killed or allowed to be infected with aids by refusing to allow condoms?

Not to mention we *know*


Refusing to allow condoms kills no one. Thinking sex can be "casual" does.

And I'm sorry to break it to you, but without proof, we know squat.

I suspect the rest of your post is also nonsense.


RE: Save yourself
By othercents on 12/3/2012 1:51:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
WHY ARE YOU GOING BACK TO THAT hell hole!

You were out and you know how crazy those religios zelots are. WHY GO BACK? I know your family might be there. Get them out of there!


1) His father is dieing, so going back was the only option unless you believe he shouldn't have tried to see his dad before his death.

2) I don't believe he knew this was going to be an issue since the application was not built for the purpose that the Iran government says.

3) Bringing people out of Muslim countries like Iran is much harder than people think especially when other countries don't want to inadvertently bring a terrorist to their country. Plus you typically need to be a citizen to bring your family to another country. There is backlog in the US for family member visas for US citizens and that only includes immediate family and not siblings. There is probably a backlog in Canada too. Then you are not certain if their family wants to move to the US.

4) "hell hole!" that is a mater of opinion and while we hear all the bad cases, people there still love their country. While I can't speak for Canadians, I know Americans consistently believe they are number 1 and when foreigners get here the Americans want the foreigners to love it better than the country they grew up in. The bond with the country, culture, and people that you grew up with is strong and more so in Middle Eastern countries where they value family more than anything else.

Other


RE: Save yourself
By Dr of crap on 12/3/2012 2:45:24 PM , Rating: 2
Didn't say they should come here - we are FULL.

On the other hand I'd love to live in a country that you have buildings falling down from bombs, and you could have a bomb blow up in your backyard. Not that it couldn't happen here, but over there its a common occurance. Not that they are the only country.

Yep and here we could get a drive by shooting, I know. We each have our own faults.

Come on we all know how they operate standing behind the religion law.
You made something that they wouldn't like.
AND YOU STILL ENTER that county? Entering the lions den bud.


RE: Save yourself
By bug77 on 12/3/2012 5:57:14 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
"hell hole!" that is a mater of opinion


quote:
In 2010, he finally was tried before the nation's Revolutionary Court, a federal Islamist court. He was forbidden to defend himself.


Doesn't sound like a matter of opinion to me. Maybe I'm just picky.


RE: Save yourself
By euler007 on 12/3/2012 2:42:15 PM , Rating: 2
If you had a grandmother, uncles and old friends that you loved you'd go back too. Especially if you went a bunch of times and had no problems.


RE: Save yourself
By delphinus100 on 12/3/2012 7:55:35 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Yet the Islam people say how kind and non-violet their religion is.


I don't think I've ever seen a purple Muslim, this much is true...


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