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A suit is filed over the failure to prevent a sexual assault

A 14-year old girl and her mother have filed a $30 million lawsuit against the popular social networking site MySpace.com. The 14-year old claims she was abducted and sexually assaulted by a 19-year old man she met on MySpace.com.

The suit alleges that because MySpace has no age or identity verification measures in place and does not prevent strangers from contacting  users under the age of 16 that the site is negligent in the assault that occurred. In a written statement to the Austin American-Statesman CSO Hemanshu Nigam said "We take aggressive measures to protect our members. We encourage everyone on the Internet to engage in smart web practices and have open family dialogue about how to apply offline lessons in the online world." Statesman.com reports:

The lawsuit includes news reports of other assault cases in which girls were contacted through MySpace. They include a 22-year-old Wisconsin man charged with six counts of sexually assaulting a 14-year-old girl and a 27-year-old Connecticut man accused of sexually assaulting a 13-year-old girl. MySpace says on a "Tips for Parents" page that users must be 14 or older. The Web site does nothing to verify the age of the user, such as requiring a driver's license or credit card number, Loewy said.

According to the report, the accused contacted the girl in April through MySpace.  In May he picked the girl up from school and took the victim to a parking lot where he then assaulted her.

MySpace is certainly not without its share of criticisms lately.  When not getting banned in schools or Pennsylvania legislation, the site continues to become a household name.

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Social responsbility?
By irev210 on 6/20/2006 8:13:01 AM , Rating: 4
So instead of educating your child, we sue instead.


This could have all been avoided when the 14yr old saw the 19, turned around and went home.

Notice that they are using over sextual assault, not rape. If this 14 yr old was more educated on what to do if she meets someone so much older, there wouldnt be a problem.

Keeping an eye on teens nowadays isnt easy, but that isnt an excuse either. Anyone that says "I cant keep track of my teenager all the time" is not being a good parent.


Turning over the job of being a parent to the government and the justice system is a joke.

If you want to pursue criminal charges against the 19 yr old, fine... but dont blame myspace.com for your inability to be a parent.




RE: Social responsbility?
By captchaos2 on 6/20/2006 8:23:11 AM , Rating: 5
Unfortunately, parents are an extinct species and kids who used to be raised by the TV and playstation are now on Myspace and various chatrooms. Kids will do whatever they can get away with until it backfires on them, and then they look for someone else to blame just like their parents do. As long as there are no responsible, involved parents anymore, we will continue to have to hear about these stories of stupidity.


RE: Social responsbility?
By jrogerstn on 6/20/2006 8:33:29 AM , Rating: 2
That is a GREAT post... I feel exactly the same way. What do people expect when Hollywood raises their kids (TV)?


RE: Social responsbility?
By PetesEscapade on 6/20/2006 8:57:49 AM , Rating: 4
I wouldn't call myself an extinct species; maybe just rare or endangered. The solution I use with my kids when their computer use gets out of hand or becomes inappropriate is simple: I physically remove it from the house and put it into storage for weeks, or even months if necessary. I have done this a number of times, and will continue to do so. As for our house's public box, I simply don't allow games or certain other software to be installed. I can lock out access to certain internet site via password protect, etc.

I regularly peruse my kids doc/pic files, internet page history, and on-line accounts, and delete or unsubscribe as I see fit.

It may be difficult to prevent single "transgressions", but if you monitor your kids activity (both on-line and their physical where-abouts), and let them know you are doing so, you can head off a lot of long term problems and abuse. A little bit of vigilance, and parent-child verbal communication and physical interaction goes a long way.

Peter


RE: Social responsbility?
By Tsuwamono on 6/20/2006 9:08:00 AM , Rating: 3
I agree with peter completely. Im 18 now and i dont live with my parents anymore but when i did my mom was pretty damn strict with me. The computer was in our computer room which just happened to be right infront of a hallway that both her and my stepfather used atleast once every 5-10 minutes. The computer was more or less locked(it was locked but she never really understood the whole idea of locking the safemode admin with a password aswell lol). And lastly she always knew where i was, before i would leave the house she would ask where i was going, how long, who i was going with, what we were doing etc.

However i would say the biggest deterent that my mother offered up was when she would tell me "If you get caught by the cops and they try to take you home, tell them not to bother because your safer in jail." And I believed her and i still do lol.

My mother would do similar things with our PC except less extreme. She wouldnt take the whole PC, she would just take the modem and the keyboard/mouse with her and hide them somewhere. Always a different place too. My step father had a different approach however. He would simply tell me not to use the PC. If i did he knew because he measured in CM how far the computer chair was from the desk, position of the mouse and keyboard etc.

Jonathan


RE: Social responsbility?
By Souka on 6/20/2006 9:16:24 AM , Rating: 3
So your kid just goes to a friedns house or a public library....

you're just trying to hide/retrict the problem. Not once did you state teaching your child, or helping them understand right and wrong.

tsk tsk....



RE: Social responsbility?
By PetesEscapade on 6/20/2006 10:41:21 AM , Rating: 2
Souka,

Respectfully, no they don't. My wife and I have extensive conversations with our children, expressing our viewpoints, listening to theirs, teaching social responsibility, helping them understand how their actions affect others and vise versa, and what we feel is right or wrong. Through these discussions we can set clearly defined boundries that they understand the reasoning behind. We also make sure they clearly understand the consequenses of overstepping the boundries. We spend a lot of time teaching that actions do not just affect themselves in isolation; rather, their actions can have far reaching and costly effects.

Nor are they allowed free rein out into the community. We always make sure we meet the parents of our children's friends; and we always make sure they are carrying a cell phone that is on when they are out of the house at parties, events, et cetera.

Our children appreciate knowing where the boundries are, and that they are consistantly enforced. They may not think the boundries are always fair, but by the very definition of a parent/child relationship, parents are allowed (and obligated) to set and enforce limits on their children. Also, children should be rewarded for making good choices. But, I think what often happens is that parents don't teach their children the difference between rights and privileges. The use of a computer is a privilege that we as parents give our children. It is not a right, with which they are allowed to use as they please.

Peter



RE: Social responsbility?
By Xenoid on 6/20/2006 10:53:57 AM , Rating: 2
Your kids are drinking and having sex behind your back.


RE: Social responsbility?
By PetesEscapade on 6/21/2006 2:50:50 AM , Rating: 2
Xenoid:

Maybe. It's their perogative to do so, and to suffer the consequences thereof. Last time I checked, none were sleeping on the front lawn, pregnant, in jail, collecting welfare, or dead. Which, at this point in time, is good enough for me.

Peter


RE: Social responsbility?
By Eris23007 on 6/20/2006 7:17:02 PM , Rating: 2

I think you have a lot of really good ideas that resonate with the way I personally was brought up, but I do have to ask a question:

How are your kids to develop any independence? If you keep tabs on what they do at all times, how are they to develop the decision-making skills that lead to the kind of common sense that was so lacking in the case that spawned this whole thread?

One of my principal complaints with "modern parenting" (so to speak) is that it is so focused on monitoring the child's behavior at all ages that many kids never learn how to rely on their own judgment or develop common sense about such things.

While I would certainly not accuse you of being a poor parent based on your comments, I'm curious how you balance the responsibilities you have discussed with the issue I have raised?

... partially I'm curious for myself, when I choose to have children...


RE: Social responsbility?
By PetesEscapade on 6/21/2006 2:27:25 AM , Rating: 2
Eris:

There is a difference between keeping tabs on our children, and making decisions for them. And balanced parenting IS NOT easy. We want our children to leave the nest when they feel ready. We want them to be ready, and are trying to let them experience and resolve difficult situations. We're just trying to keep them out of situations that are terminal.

Peter


RE: Social responsbility?
By goku on 6/20/2006 5:12:13 PM , Rating: 2
Lol, maybe if your kids/people's kids weren't so damned retarded, you wouldn't have to be even bothering with this at all.

You all scream PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY when the real problem is the parents not teaching the kids. You act like the solution is to have the parents always watching their kids' back whent the real solution is to teach them WHY they shouldn't do something instead of 'because I said so'.

I've always hated it when an adult (not my parents) told me 'because I said so, what it does is put the kid in the dark when it comes to certain issues so when the encounter the same situation agian with out their parents 'protecting them', they do stupid shit and get hurt. Instead of telling billy not to go to oakland because "I said so", they should be telling billy not to go because there are drivebys and there is literally a murder every day.


RE: Social responsbility?
By Decaydence on 6/20/2006 6:46:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You all scream PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY when the real problem is the parents not teaching the kids.


Explain to me how "parents not teaching the kids" doesn't equate to a problem over parental responsibility. This is the point. If you don't monitor your kids AND teach them how to live life then you are irresponsible. What happens to them is your responsibility, not the worlds. When people say parental responsibility, they are saying it's not the responsibility of myspace to make sure kids are safe, its their parents. Now that the basic vocabulary has been cleared up, lets continue.


RE: Social responsbility?
By PetesEscapade on 6/21/2006 2:37:23 AM , Rating: 2
Goku:

Most parents and children are not retarded. In fact, you are giving an example of cognitive development. Young children use concrete, not abstract reasoning. No amount of telling Billy not to go to Oakland because of drive-by shootings will work if he cannot make the abstract connection between a geographic presence and death. At this stage, saying "because I said so" is just as effective as explaining "why".

Peter


RE: Social responsbility?
By aw917 on 6/20/2006 9:47:51 AM , Rating: 2
im a teenager, and speaking for the whole, this girl was just stupid. Maybe we try to get away with alot of things but most of us do not try to get away from common sense


RE: Social responsbility?
By Trisped on 6/20/2006 12:36:20 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know about you, but if I "turned around and went home" every time I saw a 19 year old at my Junior High or High School I never would have gotten my High School diploma. He probably knew what she looked like from her pictures, knew her schedule, and watches a couple of days to find an easy way to pick her up.

And I don't know where you come from; buy where I live "sexual assault" is a nice way to say rape.


RE: Social responsbility?
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 2:39:45 PM , Rating: 2
Have you ever seen a girl who said she was 18, but was really 15? If she deceived you, and you went to jail for sexual assualt, does that mean your parents sucked and you have no common sense?


Could Myspace Do More
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 8:40:37 AM , Rating: 2
Suppose a company builds a bridge without side rails, and a child falls off and is injured. Is it the parent's fault because they should have been watching the child? Is it the child's fault because they should know better? Or is it the company's fault because they were negligent in the design?

Blaming the parent in the case of the assault is the obvious knee-jerk reaction. But I don't think that anyone here knows that family well enough to know whether her parent(s) did all they could or not. So that is not a fair comment, IMO.

Folks will also blame the child. I saw comments on the linked article saying that the girl probably chatted "sexually" with the accused. This is blaming the victim in a rape case, which is wrong.

Maybe myspace.com could do more to protect children. It is obvious that it is a system that helps enable these types of crimes since it allows everyone to be anonymous. But is the company negligent? Could they have done more to protect children? I don't know the answers to these questions.

One thing is for sure, after one or more lawsuits like this, myspace will surely take steps to make the site safer. That is the good that will come out of this lawsuit, regardless of what side wins.




RE: Could Myspace Do More
By phatboye on 6/20/2006 8:50:17 AM , Rating: 2
Your anology is a bad one. If I am going to build a brige then it is my job to make sure that it is safe enough for people to cross it.

It is not Myspace's responsibilty to watch your children when they talk to people over myspace. That is the parent's job.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By Trisped on 6/20/2006 12:56:31 PM , Rating: 2
If I am going to build a communication bridge between your child and the rest of the world then it is my job to make sure that it is safe enough for people to cross it. If I find out that there are a larger number of people falling off the side of the bridge then are falling off other bridges, then I need to do something to increase the safety systems of the bridge. That might mean having someone watching the bridge at all times, building better hand rails or adding fences.

Actually, I think I like the analogy.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By Decaydence on 6/20/2006 7:01:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If I am going to build a communication bridge between your child and the rest of the world then it is my job to make sure that it is safe enough for people to cross it.


So phone companies, ISP's, telegraph operators, the U.S. Mail service, and IM services are all responsible for the communications that occur on their systems? This makes absolutely no sense. I know you have convinced yourself that myspace isn't doing what it should to do its duty to protect everyone's children, but they have no obligation to protect anyone.

Requirements of reasonable safeguards for the public's physical safety have nothing to do with protecting the public from ideas or discussion. The internet, like myspace, is not a place for 14 year olds to have unfettered access. Any parent that doesn't have some sort of blocking software in place is begging for their kid to be molested, be exposed to beastiality, or worse, stumbling onto the dailytech forums. If they aren't savvy enough to set up blocking software, hire someone to do it. Laziness isn't an excuse not to do your parental duties.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By TomZ on 6/21/2006 10:14:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
So phone companies, ISP's, telegraph operators, the U.S. Mail service, and IM services are all responsible for the communications that occur on their systems?

Yes, they are liable, if they are constructed or operated in a way that causes harm (see definition of "negligence" cited in one of my posts below) in a way that could have been reasonably prevented. That is what the lawsuit alleges.

I don't think this should come as any surprise; I think it is common sense.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By Decaydence on 6/21/2006 6:37:32 PM , Rating: 2
Myspace doesn't operate in a way that causes harm. They don't provide the address of users, they don't display the full names of people, they don't do anything to put their users in harm. It is up to the user to go out of their way to put themselves in danger. With any form of open communication, including conversation in real life, it is up to the individual to take reasonable caution. Myspace can't protect a user from his/her own lack of common sense; nor do they have an obligation to.

Suggest a "reasonable" measure myspace should take to prevent stupid children from getting into trouble. You have said "parental consent" in the past, what are the three possible outcomes of such a "safegaurd"? First, the child is so stupid that they can't get around the system and they can't use myspace at all (an outcome that can already be guaranteed by any responsible parent). Second, they get parental consent and are still in as much danger as ever. Third, they use reasonable intelligence and beat the system as though it never existed.

what other options are there? Have an employee review every single communication or profile read? Short of shutting down the site completely, nothing can be done to make this form of communication safer. Come up with a "reasonable" solution that can't be rebutted with 2 minutes of honest thought and I'll concede the point. Perhaps the "common sense" you speak of is derived from an incomplete understanding of the situation.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By lemonadesoda on 6/20/2006 8:54:49 AM , Rating: 2
Well i just hope myspace.com keeps a log of chats so that the truth of exactly what the teenager knew comes out.

Clearly the parent, or lawyer, is not interested in HELPING to make the situation better. They are more interested in the cash. What a lot of money. How can an unfortunate incident result like this be rewarded with $millions and a future lifestyle of luxury and extravagence?

Depending on the evidence from the chat-log, I hope myspace is able to countersue for malicious intent.

Anyway, this is getting dangerously close to responsibility issues like driving, drinking, taking drugs etc.

Let's just make the internet ILLEGAL for under 14 year olds WITHOUT parent/guardian observation.

In one clear swoop, we would stop all these nonesense parent-get-rich-quick lawsuits.

Then, in similar cases, myspace could sue the parent.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By Trisped on 6/20/2006 12:59:02 PM , Rating: 2
They do keep a log of everything.
In most cases the person suing donates the money to a charity or organization that fights the problem, as that increase the chance of them winning.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By ZeeStorm on 6/20/2006 8:54:55 AM , Rating: 1
I'd disagree with you. In your first paragraph, it's in no way pointed at one person. It's not the company's fault, it's the not the parents fault, it's not the child's fault, at least, not entirely. Kids do stupid things, no matter who raises them, no matter what they've been told, no matter what they've experienced. It's like riding a bike up a big ramp. There's nothing to say you won't hurt yourself, parents can see it as just some fun, and companies say jump at your own risk. Myspace isn't a website just for people to find other people that you don't know. It's a place where friends can find friends they used to go to school with, keep in contact with loved ones from far away, or in some cases, meet new people. The parents, which I will call stupid, should not be suing myspace. As of right now, this is entirely the parent's faults, and going after myspace just makes that stick out more. If the daughter had any say, I guarentee you that they would be going after the guy and not myspace. If a parent would do something as stupid like this, then they should make it so their kid's don't use computers, or only meet people when their family is there. Simply said.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 9:10:40 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
If the daughter had any say, I guarentee you that they would be going after the guy and not myspace.

The suit also names the alleged abuser, according to the linked article, so it is not entirely directed at myspace.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By UNHchabo on 6/20/2006 11:36:38 AM , Rating: 3
If you build a bridge, put guardrails on the bridge, and the kid climbs on top of the guardrail and falls off, are you liable, or are the parents standing 25 feet from the kid? This is a much better analogy. The only things MySpace could do to better prevent this sort of thing would be analogous to putting an enclosing cage around the bridge, so that nothing larger than an insect could exit the bridge except at the ends.

We should prosecute the 19 year old, and no one else.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 12:43:23 PM , Rating: 2
What if they put guard rails on the bridge, but instead of making them of steel, they drew pictures of guardrails onto paper and glued the paper to the edge of the bridge. Not if someone gets hurt, would that still be neglegent? Because that is effectively what myspace did - they have in place safeguards that make you feel like you are safe, but that are actually ineffective.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By rrsurfer1 on 6/20/2006 1:26:12 PM , Rating: 2
What safeguards...?? Anyone can talk to anyone. It's called reality, LIFE. Some people need to join it. And stop blaming their stupidity on a service that for the most part has been positive and groundbreaking.



RE: Could Myspace Do More
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 1:31:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What safeguards...??

How about parental consent, for starters.

Why does my kids' school need me to sign a permission slip giving my consent for my kids to take a field trip? Think about it.

I'm not saying mine is a necessarily a good idea, but experience seems to demonstrate that myspace is more dangerous that many perceive it to be, and thus, myspace should take some action to help make it safer. Lawsuits like these will be the catalyst for that type of change.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By rrsurfer1 on 6/20/2006 1:43:08 PM , Rating: 2
Experience demonstrates that life is more dangerous than many perceive it to be.

Keep monitoring everything and taking control of every little aspect of your childs life, you may find they are totally unable to survive on their own after they leave home.

The fact is the world is not always a safe place and part of parenting is to teach that.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 5:29:59 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, and that's fine, as long as:

1. Companies do not help out the predators by creating systems to facilitate them, and

2. It is not an acceptable consequence for a child making a bad decision that she be sexually assaulted/raped.


RE: Could Myspace Do More
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 2:43:33 PM , Rating: 2
You can't provide the vehicle without the safety it needs to function.

If Honda made a new invention called the "car" and didn't provide seatbelts despite knowing they are helpful, yet someone gets in an "accident" and gets hurt, who are you going to blame?

Litigation is a function of every legitimate government. If you want to live in a country where you cannot have your rights verified or revoked through a court of law, please do so and have fun. The reason that the U.S. Constitution remains virtually the same 220+ years later is that the laws already written are tested in trial, rather than a new law being written to cover new situations.


Target the median
By Milliamp on 6/20/2006 8:11:51 AM , Rating: 4
In this case MySpace was only a contact median not different than email, telephone, or real life.

What mechanisms are in place to prevent a 19 y/o from talking to a 14 y/o in real life?

Why does it come as a shock to people when social networks mimic... society?




RE: Target the median
By Souka on 6/20/2006 9:14:04 AM , Rating: 3
The difference is MySpace is evil....well, unfamiliar to parents.

Parents understand email, IM, phones...but not MySpace.

As a result, ignorance becomes fear.

My $.02


RE: Target the median
By Trisped on 6/20/2006 12:48:29 PM , Rating: 2
Email doesn't allow you to surf for addresses
IM doesn't feature photo albums
Phones don't post the contents of your previous conversations with you friend so others can see.

MySpace is the perfect place to learn everything there is to know about a person. I have even heard rumors that some employers search people's MySpace page before they hire them.


RE: Target the median
By msva124 on 6/20/2006 1:08:46 PM , Rating: 2
If a candidate HAD a myspace page, I wouldn't hire them.


RE: Target the median
By CowboyJTE on 6/24/2006 2:20:49 AM , Rating: 2
WHY?

I am a Full-Time I/T and Part-Time Combination Clerk, and I have a MySpace, and a Facebook. Thats my personal life, why should that be considered for part of my job? Would you consider my race, too? How about my Sex?


RE: Target the median
By rrsurfer1 on 6/20/2006 1:12:47 PM , Rating: 2
Thats 100% true. Many employeers are checking that and FaceBook.


RE: Target the median
By CowboyJTE on 6/24/2006 2:18:41 AM , Rating: 2
There is a cussword I would love to use here regarding caddle and

IMs do to feature photo albums. Check out Yahoo and MSN for an Example.

And you missed Chat Rooms. Before Social Networking Sites, All you heard about regarding the Internet and Sexual Predators was Chatrooms, Which, anyone could access (Some required email, some required Messengers, some simply required membership).


RE: Target the median
By OrSin on 6/20/2006 11:06:44 AM , Rating: 3
Sorry not Myspace fault any more then the telephone or IM.
Thye are not setup to police anything. Should not need to be. They offer no material that is for adults only.

Sorry not parents fault either. She is 14 that means highschool. That also means so get home before her parents 78% of time (national facts). Her parents could be the best in the world, but shit happens. thye coudl also be crappy paretn but you would not knew from this.

The fault is on the girl. She got in a car with a stranger. Now I'm not saying the guy should not be put in jail, but the girl did the wrong thing and this time got in trouble.

Also did th guy know he true age? he did pick her up from hight school. If she was 16 and he 19 it would not be illegal in most states. If the guy is under 21 then the legal age of consent is 16 not 18 in alot of states.

We just don't know all the facts. But my guess is she will not win anything in this case. Some of the other case have more going for them.


RE: Target the median
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 11:37:10 AM , Rating: 2
It's a common misconception that 16 year olds can consent in most states. Not true. There is usually a lesser penalty and a lower degree of sexual assault, but it is still illegal in most if not all states. Educate yourself, please.

Blaming a 14-year-old is not the correct answer to solving this problem. Accidents happen, and no one party save the pervert did anything terribly wrong in this scenario. However to ignore the contributing factors that can be easily corrected is to set in place circumstances that allow the situation to repeat itself, and that is simply reckless.


RE: Target the median
By CowboyJTE on 6/24/2006 2:41:30 AM , Rating: 2
Check your local law... But mine states (I looked up the NRS a while back) that 16 is ok for Consent. There are alot of websites out with charts that show which states have what consent for what type of relationsip, but its always a good idea to check up on that information by researching local law.


RE: Target the median
By Trisped on 6/20/2006 12:26:10 PM , Rating: 2
When your product is specifically targeted at kids with the express focus providing them a communication outlet and getting them addicted to it, a certain amount of responsibility is required.

MySpace is a known hotspot for teenagers. It is also a well known hotspot for sexual predators. If you were to find some numbers I would bet that there is a child molested as a result of a MySpace encounter ever day. MySpace knows this, they are just too interested in making money to put in any safe guards.

Yes, parents should do their part to protect their children, but I expect MySpace to do theirs also.


RE: Target the median
By rrsurfer1 on 6/20/2006 1:17:17 PM , Rating: 2
Safeguards eh... Care to elaborate? What safeguards would help here. ??

It's called having a brain. Because you're 14 doesn't excuse you from using COMMON SENSE. Granted, the guy should be put in jail. But I don't see much MySpace could do to prevent this abuse.

If she had met this guy in person, talked to him on a cell phone for awhile, and then decided to go out with him and he raped her, would the parents be suing the cell phone provider? Rediculous.


RE: Target the median
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 11:39:35 AM , Rating: 2
Being 14 DOES actually excuse you from using COMMON SENSE. It's a factor of brain development. The prefrontal cortex responsible for rational decision making BEGINS to develop at 14 and does not fully develop until the mid 20's. Common sense and teen agers are like oil and water and it's not becuase they are stupid, it's because of biology.


RE: Target the median
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 11:33:51 AM , Rating: 2
What part of "abduction" is not getting through to you guys?

You're completely blaming the victim out of a zealous defense of your favorite toy-the internet. Don't get me wrong, I'm as anti-censorship as the next guy, until that use of free speech is abused to lure underage girls into dangerous situations.

Let me ask this: Is it illegal to scream 'fire' in a theatre, or 'gun' on a plane? Yes, why? Because that particular use of language creates a danger for others.

The reason that the medium (not median) is complicit in this assault and different than a phone or in-person meeting is that there was literally no way for this girl to have known the age or physical identity of this man.

In-person is really easy to make a distinction, and even over the phone would be pretty easy with caller id, *69, easily obtainable records.

The precedent is set that government offers freedom until those freedoms risk the rights of others for basic safety. That's why you get ticketed for speeding, not because anybody gives a flying you know what about you, but becuase your stupid driving creates risks for others.

Those of you who are parents either will, or have experienced a scenario where your children put themselves at risk due to careless behavior that you had no chance of preventing. Those of you without children could potentially scream 'parental responsibility' until you die and never realize that it is entirely impossible to be 100% aware and responsible for the behavior of a teen. Hopefully at some point, your rational mind starts to act before your urge to vehemently protect the freedom of the internet, because in reality safety comes before freedom because if the two were reversed, you have anarchy and that system of government (or lack thereof) has long since been abolished due to it's incredible failures.



Social Services
By cciesquare on 6/20/2006 12:05:25 PM , Rating: 2
Someone needs to contact social services. Absolutely parents fault.

How is it that it is a website's fault your child leaves without you knowing, meets up with a stranger who takes your child far away and sexually assults him/her. My question is where were the parents during the whole event.

Maybe we should sue the car that the stranger used to take the girl away. I mean how dare the car not know that the driver was a sexual preditor and that the girl was being taken against her will. How dare that car.




RE: Social Services
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 12:51:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
How is it that it is a website's fault your child leaves without you knowing, meets up with a stranger who takes your child far away and sexually assults him/her. My question is where were the parents during the whole event.

Obviously you lack parenting experience and/or common sense. The conversation could have gone like this. Mom: "Where are you going?" Daugher: "Out with <name of girlfriend known to mom> to the mall, her mom is driving us" Mom: "OK, be careful, take your cell phone with you, and be home by dinner."

So if mom was to be the "ideal parent" in your world, should she follow her to "the mall" to make sure she was safe?


RE: Social Services
By rrsurfer1 on 6/20/2006 1:34:43 PM , Rating: 2
Perfect example TomZ.

No, she wouldn't. And if she wouldn't, why the HELL is Myspace required to follow all of her online activities to make sure she's safe?

I'll give you a clue. It's not required.

Which is why this case will get thrown out, and for good reason.


RE: Social Services
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 1:40:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Which is why this case will get thrown out, and for good reason.

What are you talking about? Myspace already lost. They will have to pay lawyers piles of money to defend themselves. They are going to get tons of negative PR regarding this story. They will likely settle out of court for an "undisclosed sum" of money. They will probably lose lots of teen users due to the publicity, and maybe even attact a few more predator users.


RE: Social Services
By rrsurfer1 on 6/20/2006 1:45:52 PM , Rating: 2
This isn't the first case.

Myspace has lawyers already, this is just another case. The PR will fade and this will mean nothing. I HIGHLY, very highly doubt this will have any effect on the userbase. If anything, their name being in the media will lead more people to look and join, not less.


RE: Social Services
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 1:49:56 PM , Rating: 2
So you would expect that, upon hearing about the news story that this girl was assaulted, that other teens will rush out and sign up for the service? I don't follow the logic.

But really, my point is that these lawsuits will change myspace's perspective on security regardless of whether they win or lose, because these suits always cost them lots of money regardless of the outcome.


RE: Social Services
By rrsurfer1 on 6/20/2006 1:57:39 PM , Rating: 2
Yes. Myspace hasn't even close to saturated yet, media attention is good. And most teens will feel how the majority of people here feel, which is that a little common sense would have prevented this. In addition, I don't see people leaving myspace over this issue, because most are already aware of the dangers. So the user base will almost certainly grow from this attention.

I think Myspace may implement something slightly different to increase security (or liability) as a result of this. So I agree with you there, though I am unsure how they will go about this, other than more disclaimers.


RE: Social Services
By Decaydence on 6/21/2006 9:13:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So you would expect that, upon hearing about the news story that this girl was assaulted, that other teens will rush out and sign up for the service? I don't follow the logic.


Hah, all over this thread you have been droning on about how children can't process the danger of certain situations without being faced with them and now you can't see how this story won't effect children's desire to use the service? Which is it?

No one is going to be deterred from using myspace because of this story.


RE: Social Services
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 3:12:08 PM , Rating: 2
I am Social Services, and what we do is confrontational and difficult enough without trying to pull us in to this type of situation. However if the parent arranged the meeting and/or was prostituting the child that's our arena.

This 'discussion' is one of zealots versus rational people. It is not reasonable to assume that life is dangerous and it is each person's responsibility to keep themselves and their family safe. It simply is not. That is the reason that laws, law enforcement, courts, even social services exist to begin with. If you truly believe that it is personal responsibility to keep yourself safe in all situations, then you have two options: live off the grid and have somebody bring you organic groceries, or start your militia-I'll come get you when 'they' are after 'us.'

Assuming that you choose to live within the rest of society, you are protected by laws. There are laws that govern how your home was built. If you attempt to turn on a light, but are fried because the electrician did not follow code, do you deserve protection? Of course. BUT, weren't you told as a child that electricity was dangerous and you should not play with it? Yes, of course you were. But since you still tried to use electricity and got fried, you must have bad parents.

If you had better knowledge on the topic of electricity, you would have known that the work did not meet code and may have been dangerous. However (despite the fact that everybody talking about this is a forum member on a tech website) there are some people who do not understand the internet, and the risks involved. Do they still deserve protection, despite the fact that they are not well educated on the risks? Yes, in fact the greater the ignorance, the greater the protection needed. There is too much information needed to live a modern life. If everyone needs to be an expert in everything to safely lead a life, God help us all.


RE: Social Services
By Decaydence on 6/21/2006 9:19:50 PM , Rating: 2
Listen, if a person won't take reasonable care to keep themselves safe, then all the laws on the planet aren't going to save them. The only way to protect people in the way you are describing is to not let a system like myspace exist. What if some 14 yr old girl jumps into the anandtech forums and says "I want to hook up, my address is...", and someone goes to her house and "assaults" her in some way, should anandtech be sued? Obviously these forums aren't meant to be a place for 14 year old girls to seek the company of grown men, but they also take no precautions to prevent it. Just like myspace, we can say whatever we want. If we choose to use that freedom in a way that is self-destructive, that is on us.

By the way, you were right about zealots versus rational people, but you had the roles reversed.


RE: Social Services
By superkdogg on 6/22/2006 3:44:34 PM , Rating: 2
So, since people put themselves at risk is no reason to create laws? That seems backwards to me.

Your post does nothing to enlighten me on why it is alright to create a vehicle that is known to be widely misused and not attempt to correct it.

When cocaine was found to be dangerous, Coca-Cola adapted. Did Coke have the right to continue putting the drug in their soda after it was exposed as dangerous? Did and do people continue to put themselves at risk and seek out cocaine? The parallels are there, and whether you find it acceptable or not, government has the right and the responsiblity to protect citizens-even from themselves if they are ignorant on a given topic.


RE: Social Services
By Decaydence on 6/22/2006 7:03:41 PM , Rating: 2
Your examples are embarrassingly lacking. Obviously there is something innately dangerous in a vehicle with design flaws. There is an innate danger in having cocaine in coke. There is nothing innately dangerous about myspace because it requires the user to voluntarily make the situation dangerous. Your analogy would work if you were talking about a trend in which people were putting cocaine into their coke or they were removing parts from cars that were important for safety. IF people were doing that, obviously the government wouldn't be blaming the companies that make those products.

Myspace didn't make this situation dangerous, the people using their service did. It shocks me that people can't see this very simple distinction. There is nothing dangerous about myspace for people that don't share their information like morons.


RE: Social Services
By superkdogg on 6/23/2006 12:20:49 AM , Rating: 2
First of all, I meant vehicle in the sense that myspace is the vehicle or the means or the medium which allowed the two persons to come together, not a car per se in this instance. I can understand how that could have been misread.

Secondly, Coca-Cola once DID contain cocaine. When it became widely known that cocaine was dangerous, Coke decided that they could make money while also protecting their consumers. They had to change their product a little, and remove a key ingredient, but it seems to have worked out alright for them. Coca-cola did not fight to keep cocaine legal, or deny that it was dangerous. They played the "good guy" and made changes for the greater good rather than playing cut-throat with people's health. Myspace would be well served to follow that example.

As far as removing important safety parts from cars, the difference is that we are now in an era of more enlightenment than when cars were invented. When ol' Hank Ford decided to roll the Model T's and A's off the assembly line, he didn't yet know that there would be enough roads, drivers, cars, etc. that safety would ever even be a concern. As people started to get hurt, the automobile has been continuously modified to keep people safe and if a modern car were built without these improvements (cars were not always this safe-quite applicable to the situation) it would be negligence. If Murdoch and the other important persons in the myspace organization were to parallel this example, they would be voluntarily moving to change their product in the belief that more safety measures actually improves it and enhances the product.

Failing to act to protect consumers if one is aware that a product is dangerous is one definition of negligence. The case here is whether or not myspace is aware that some people use their service to prey upon children, and whether or not there are additional safety measures that a reasonable person would put in place. If those two conditions exist, then plaintiff wins, if not judgement will fall in favor of myspace.

While I understand that there were numerous mistakes made that allowed for this situation to happen, some of them made by the victim, I do not believe that absolves myspace of all responsibility since, as even those who oppose my point of view have stated, myspace can be used by perpetrators to disguise their identity in order to gain access to vulnerable people. If everyone reading and writing in this thread knows this, it is very likely that myspace execs also know this and there is a case for just that reason.

I'm also disappointed that people have categorized me as a zealot in this instance. While I believe that one should exercise zeal in protecting children, I believe that the case presented here is somewhere in the gray area. There are some obviously oblivious souls who feel that if a 14 year old girl makes a bad choice and exposes herself to some risk, she deserves to be raped. I sincerely hope that if that situation presented itself in a way that were more real to these people, they would be more human. My standpoint is one that corporations which profit from consumer dollars have a responsibility to reduce risk to their clientele. If and when a company does become aware that a product increases risk for their consumers, failing to act in the best interest of the public (especially when utilizing public infrastructure such as the internet) can be a valid tort law case.


Myspace is no more at fault then the local mall
By joey2264 on 6/20/2006 1:51:47 PM , Rating: 2
I am sorry, TomZ, you seem very adamant about this, but that is mostly based on the faulty "facts" that the lawyers for the plaintiff are proponing, and the misconception of myspace that the media likes to trot out.

The fact is that there are no more sexual predators on myspace than there are on AOL, Yahoo, MSN, or your local mall, your local city, etc. When the media makes a huge deal out of every tragic event that Myspace is associated with, it makes it seem like there is an epidemic, but there simply isn't. It is like when there are a rash of alligator attacks in Florida (where I live). All the local media likes to act like this is new or different than the past, and that we should all be especially worried about it and be on our guard. But when the actual statistics are considered, there have been less alligator attacks this year than the average. Myspace's base of users is skyrocketing, so of course, their base of pedophiles is skyrocketing, but that doesn't MEAN anything.

The 19 yr old should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but the fact is that this could have been prevented if the child used a little common sense. You don't seem to want to recognize this fact, and I can understand that if you have a child yourself and you imagine that your child was in this horrible circumstance. But if you try to be impartial and actually consider the facts of the case, myspace is no more at fault than any other local meeting place that young people hang out at.




By rrsurfer1 on 6/20/2006 1:52:56 PM , Rating: 2
Well said.


RE: Myspace is no more at fault then the local mall
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 2:10:08 PM , Rating: 2
What you don't understand is that I am not taking any position in this case, for or against either side. I haven't said that myspace is at fault, have I? What I am against is when folks jump to one of the easy knee-jerk conclusions like, bad parenting, the kid's fault, that the lawsuit's motivation is greed, etc. without having any facts to support any such conclusion.

We should give the benefit of the doubt to the victim and her parents, as well as to myspace, until all the facts come out.

Finally, I do think myspace is different from the other services. Other services either small scale (e.g., local mall) or point-to-point (IM, e-mail, cell phone). They don't allow the type of services that help facilitate child predators like searching, viewing pictures of children, accessing publically-available personal information, being able to make contact, etc. in the way that myspace (and similar types of sites) do.


By joey2264 on 6/20/2006 3:39:09 PM , Rating: 2
The thing is, all of the information on Myspace that you say is so easily searchable by pedophiles and bad types, is put on there by the person. It is their choice to reveal personal information about where they live, their school, etc. and it makes sense that anybody can view it, because it is on a public forum. It would be like if you posted your address, pictures of yourself, your habits, schedule, etc. on a public bulletin board in the mall. You would expect that some savory types would be able to view that right? Does that mean that nobody should be able to use public bulletin boards?


RE: Myspace is no more at fault then the local mall
By flexy on 6/20/2006 4:08:11 PM , Rating: 2
i dont agree.

I saw times, WAY BEFORE myspace, where hundreds of thousands of people were (and still are) on AOL/ICQ/IRC etc etc..etc.. "chatrooms"

Also...i THINK that there are many "dating sites" where the sign-up for women is FREE - means thsoe sites incl. the above mentioned mediums would be able to provide the SAME "groudns for predators" as does myspace.

The only diff to MS is that MS is WAY more in public now because "everyone and their mother" is on....but this does NOT more dangerous than other places on the internet..and, yes, even "the mall"


RE: Myspace is no more at fault then the local mall
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 5:32:23 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, these other media/services are also a danger for children. That doesn't release myspace from their legal obligation to not put people in harm's way.


By Decaydence on 6/21/2006 9:26:50 PM , Rating: 2
There is no way many of the people commenting about mspaces obligation to hide personal information have ever seen myspace before. Its not like there are fields like "phone number" and "address" which are readily available to anyone searching a profile. A child would have to share that information in the same way they type to word "hello". In order to safe guard the system, you would have to prevent any information or messages from being shared at all, which would mean myspace would be a blank web page.


By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 3:23:44 PM , Rating: 2
What time is it that naughty phone numbers start coming up, and do they all say "must be 18 to call?" Yes, they do, and those ads are on late at night. Why do you think that may be? If you said because the laws govern media, you would be right. Even though there are parental and juvenile choices to be made prior to viewing those commercials or making those phone calls, there are laws that govern who is exposed to the material and when it can be shown.


By Decaydence on 6/21/2006 9:28:44 PM , Rating: 2
So myspace ads should only be shown at night? Heh, what a retarded comparison. Myspace has restrictions on what users under certain ages can do, but then people under that age just present a false age, just like anyone calling those numbers you use as great shining examples would do.


By superkdogg on 6/22/2006 3:52:37 PM , Rating: 2
Because you think someone can or would evade a law is no reason to avoid creating one. Do you think that people evade nearly every law? Absolutely they do, laws exist to create a system of retribution as much as to deter any action. If people were found to be using false ages, there should at least be the ability to ban them for life.

So you're against all government regulation of media as a rule? Ok, that's your perogative. But go to that place in your head for a moment and review what it would really be like. It would not be all pleasant like you think-regulation is a necessity of government. The right of one person exists until it infringes on the right of another. Myspace has the right to do whatever it wants until the service is mis-used to create a dangerous scenario. They have the responsibility to take action to keep users safe, regardless of whether or not some people try to abuse the service.

By the way, calling names is no way to win an argument and I hope you spelled decadence wrong on purpose.


By Decaydence on 6/22/2006 7:12:23 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't call you a name, for the record, I called the comparison retarded. Yes, I did mispell the word on purpose.

quote:
Myspace has the right to do whatever it wants until the service is mis-used to create a dangerous scenario.


What a dangerous way of thinking this is. We have the right to create anything we want until someone else comes along and misuses it in a way that is dangerous? Companies who create baseball bats should be held liable when a person beats someone to death with one. Manufacturers of kitchen knives should be sued when someone is stabbed with one.

Myspace didn't infringe of this girls rights, the person who assaulted her did. No one has the right not to be able to share their information willingly with a stranger. That line of thinking is basically like saying "we have a right to make sure companies limit our rights in a way that helps us." It makes no sense at all. If we are going to invent a right to have companies protect us from ourselves, then society is in store for some huge changes.


By superkdogg on 6/23/2006 12:31:25 AM , Rating: 2
Cool, I'm glad you cleared that retarded thing up. I used to assist people with developmental disabilities in living rewarding, 'normal' lives and I'm sensitive about that word to a point.

As far as your assertion that companies protecting us from ourselves is going to be a big change, I strongly disagree and the evidence is all around you. Every warning label, especially the really obvious ones are examples that companies already protect us from ourselves. I understand that many people disagree with this line of reasoning, but that does not change the fact that case law has consistently borne out the responsibility that a service provider has to ensure the safety of its clients.


By CowboyJTE on 6/24/2006 2:39:19 AM , Rating: 2
Im never going to get tired of saying this...
MSN, YAHOO, AOL...

They all have: Messengers, Chat Rooms, Email Services, and Yes, its not that hard to publish your phone number. They all provide "profiles."
Yahoo and MSN Collect information from your Sign Up form and automatically create a profile for you that you are able to addd more information to, AOL makes it a little bit harder by making you create your own profile for the first time. But they all offer Chat Rooms, and they All offer Email, and they All offer Instant Messengers.

MySpace offers U2U (User to User) Email, it finally offers an Instant Messenger program, and offers "Groups/Forums" for chatting.


Two words:
By Sunbird on 6/20/2006 8:08:45 AM , Rating: 5
Parental Responsibility




RE: Two words:
By segagenesis on 6/20/2006 8:21:26 AM , Rating: 2
You should have said Personal Responsibility surrenders.


RE: Two words:
By Sunbird on 6/20/2006 8:35:59 AM , Rating: 3
I are been raised by TV since 80's, 3 words are to many for me brain. :P


RE: Two words:
By fungry on 6/20/2006 9:28:56 AM , Rating: 4
yea definitely... but seriously what is wrong with these teens going out and getting strangers to pick them up. makes me want to say "wtf" fully. Yet again, it comes to the question about the parents. What are they doing? They sure aren't being good parents if they let their children go into such circumstances


RE: Two words:
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 12:05:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They sure aren't being good parents if they let their children go into such circumstances

I think you have the wrong idea that parenting equals total control of the child. It just doesn't work that way.

Part of the reality of parenting is knowing that you cannot be with your child 100% of the time. You teach them right and wrong, explain the risks, talk about the consequences, etc. But that is all you can do. If the child makes a mistake, you cannot necessarily blame the parent.

Of course, at the same time, I'll admit that this could be a case of bad parenting. We just don't have all the facts to conclude one way or the other.


RE: Two words:
By SaintSinner1 on 6/20/2006 10:17:26 AM , Rating: 2
can you sue somebody for being stupid ?


RE: Two words:
By freaktmp on 6/20/2006 12:01:30 PM , Rating: 4
no, but stupid people get to sue everybody else, all the time.


Please...
By AbelIAN on 6/20/2006 8:45:43 AM , Rating: 2
It isn't about where the parenting failed. (Just wondering, why hasn't anyone said anything about the 19yo's parents doing a bad job with him?) This is about forcing MySpace to try to have stricter regulations or precautions to prevent this type of thing (whether that's possible is another matter). Remember, businesses care about money more than your goddamn feelings.




RE: Please...
By rushfan2006 on 6/20/2006 8:58:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It isn't about where the parenting failed. (Just wondering, why hasn't anyone said anything about the 19yo's parents doing a bad job with him?) This is about forcing MySpace to try to have stricter regulations or precautions to prevent this type of thing (whether that's possible is another matter). Remember, businesses care about money more than your goddamn feelings.


Oh stfu..yeah that's it be an apologist for other's stupidity and being irresponsible. How are you I wonder (I mean your real honest age, not the age you'll say to try and make some dramatic statement) -- probably a teen yourself.

I'll give you some credit though -- you are right that the 19 year old should take heat too. And for the record, at least with my post I'm not complaining about the 14 y/o's 'rents doing a bad job persay, I'm talking about them not being more responsible and perhaps educating their child better about things that go on in the real world. On the other hand the 19 y/o's folks should be upset and quite mad I'd hope -- but its different because in this country at 18 you are legally responsible for your own actions.

Scary to say you are "legally" considered an "adult".

As such the 19 y/o should get a good arse kicking and be toss in jail.

But don't give me your "please..." BS on this one...


RE: Please...
By rushfan2006 on 6/20/2006 8:59:32 AM , Rating: 2
Why oh why doesn't daily tech put edit features on here? For the love of God....

"How are you I wonder" should read "How old are you I wonder"


RE: Please...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 6/20/2006 9:11:28 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. The people involved are to blame. This is simply like suing AT&T because the girl and the guy used it to talk to each other which led to this incident. Heres a new idea, TEACH YOUR KID NOT TO GIVE OUT PERSONAL INFO ONLINE >.<


RE: Please...
By AbelIAN on 6/20/2006 9:06:48 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not being an apologist. People act stupid, but it's not your responsibility to decide. Someone a few posts up said that the parents could have been great parents, and this still could have happened. How do you know that they weren't? By the fact that they're suing?

Look at the bald facts here: no matter how culpable the parents were, the company shares blame and they need to pay for it in one way or another. You really could make similar defenses about cigarette companies having to spend their own money to teach people not to smoke, or other acts where a company is forced to do more than it normally has to by law.


RE: Please...
By ZmaxDP on 6/20/2006 10:30:05 AM , Rating: 2
I would make the same argument about the cigarette companies. They shouldn't have to spend their own money to educate people about the dangers of smoking beyond putting a label on their product like any other potentially hazardous consumer product has to. If someone is stupid enough to ignore the health effects (for any reason) then that is their choice and their fault - not the cigarette company's. Now, since it is illegal for people under 18 to smoke, they were rightfully sued for targeting that market as they were directly encouraging people to violate a law.

However, I've yet to see something on my space that encourages adults to initiate a sexual relationship with minors.

Point being, this lawsuit is BS. There is no reasonable evidence that Myspace as a company is culpable for this crime in any way. However, I do like that the lawsuit was brought simply because it publicizes the fact that Myspace isn't as security consious as it needs to be. If the lawsuit goes to trial, it will be a pity, but to make it this far might make Myspace take some steps to better their site.

I'm not going to speculate on why the suit was brought because I just don't know. The parents could be good, or bad. The daughter could have been consentual or not. None of us know from the article. However, the effects of the suit could be good or bad depending on how far it goes in the court system, and what it causes Myspace to do. Lets just hope that the results are positive and forget about intentions until we know a little more...


RE: Please...
By rushfan2006 on 6/20/2006 11:52:37 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm not being an apologist. People act stupid, but it's not your responsibility to decide. Someone a few posts up said that the parents could have been great parents, and this still could have happened. How do you know that they weren't? By the fact that they're suing?


Look...based on the information on this story as I read it at my local news channel (NBC10) and the information in this article (posted above) -- there is no way in HELL MySpace.com should be held legally liable for this case. Now if you have hidden facts (re: "some dirt") that the rest of us aren't aware of, please present them.

But from both sources of this story that I read the biggest claim is "MySpace.com didn't verify ages"....oh noes! They didn't verify ages....a website that's main intend, however some view it now after being corrupted by misuse involving stupid and naive people, was just to be a "meeting place" online. If people it are taking it into a real world meeting place where they are kidnapping, abusing folks -- I fail to see how that is in the realm of MySpace.com's responsiblity....so long as they don't encourage such behavior, so long as they post notices up about the dangers of giving out certain information, etc....and to my knowledge they do this.

I have a shocker for you too -- even if the parents are A-1 parents, the best parents the world have ever known....MySpace is still not to blame on this case.

Even "perfect" parents can make mistakes, true -- but dropping your guard on your kids and your child's stupid lack of common sense and playing the "cutesy helpless little innocent girl" routine -- no sorry...that dog just don't hunt.


RE: Please...
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 11:58:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Look...based on the information on this story as I read it at my local news channel (NBC10) and the information in this article (posted above) -- there is no way in HELL MySpace.com should be held legally liable for this case. Now if you have hidden facts (re: "some dirt") that the rest of us aren't aware of, please present them.

Not sure how you could draw that conclusion, or the opposite conclusion, based on the few facts that are available.

Anyway, from the law firm's statement, explaining why they feel that myspace is responsible:
quote:
The suit alleges that MySpace.com had full knowledge that sexual predators were contacting young children on the website but did nothing to stop it. Additionally, the suit alleges that MySpace.com fraudulently represents it has security measures in place to protect its young members but, in reality, it does not.

It doesn't sound too "out there" to me.


RE: Please...
By rushfan2006 on 6/20/2006 2:42:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Not sure how you could draw that conclusion, or the opposite conclusion, based on the few facts that are available.


I didn't think I stuttered in my post, its quite easy how I drew that conclusion - my god I even disclosed in honesty what my sources were.

quote:
The suit alleges that MySpace.com had full knowledge that sexual predators were contacting young children on the website but did nothing to stop it. Additionally, the suit alleges that MySpace.com fraudulently represents it has security measures in place to protect its young members but, in reality, it does not.


Is the part I'm supposed to go "oh..I never thought about it that way" or something like that? Its a lawsuit, now I'm not saying MySpace did or didn't do wrong, but I am saying that if you want to make attempt to seek a monetary reward for pain and suffering, or whatever the case may be you obviously have to file a suit. In the course of this naturally a suit will allege what the victims feel is the truth to their story. Likewise the defendant will allege that its not true. This is why people going to court -- they both agreed then there would be no case. Case in point, anyone can allege anything does mean its fact.

Going further more, as I always try to be fair in these kinds of debates...like I said in my original post IF SOMEONE CAN PRESENT FACTS OTHERWISE then you can sway my opinion. I'm not shying away that perhaps MySpace could be wrong...I'm just saying too many folks shove responsibility off and take the easy way out of EVERYTHING -- someone else is to blame...but never YOU when YOU have control over yourself. Its disgusting. Finally so far no one as brought me evidence of how MySpace failed.

And the folks taking your stance keep going "well they didn't have proper safe guards"....explain that...what do you expect them to do?

There is only so much we can be responsible for for someone else's actions -- the worse thing MySpace could do is for the "ALLEGED" stuff to be true which would mean there are sex offenders on the site and MySpace doesn't notify people of that fact. And also, even THEN -- in NO CASE will ANYONE convince me ALL FAULT is on Myspace...even if Myspace KNOWING ALLOWS SEX OFFENDERS on the site...people STILL have to be accountable for their own actions, if not in whole then at least in part.

Finally, people say "known sex offenders" -- I just hope people realize that a "known sex offender" is someone labeled that by word of mouth -- that doesn't meet a legal standard...they have to have documented history (ie..have been arrested, investigated, served time, etc.).

Conclusion: Still waiting for strict proof proving how this is MySpace fault.


RE: Please...
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 2:58:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Still waiting for strict proof proving how this is MySpace fault.

Well, you're not going to get it from me. I don't have any more facts here than you do.

But I will say this, that there certainly is the possibility of negligence. If you accept that negligence is the "failure to use reasonable care" (ref. http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/n010.htm), then this is how myspace might be negligent. Suppose they are fully aware that they have created the best tool for sexual predators ever, that it was being used daily by predators, and instead of taking some action to try and make it safer, instead they knowingly just ignore the potential hazards, and go about their normal business. Worse yet, instead of making it "really" safe, they instead make it "seem safe," to quell criticism, by putting in safeguards that are actually ineffective.

I'm not saying any or all of that happened; I'm just saying it could have happened. You said there was no way that myspace could be held liable, but I disagree because if something like the above is actually true, then they are (partially) responsible and do have legal liability.

But that said, I am also all for personal responsibility (but I don't think it applies in this case). I am just playing devil's advocate here.


RE: Please...
By rushfan2006 on 6/20/2006 4:28:19 PM , Rating: 2
Yes I'll give you that. If sufficient evidence comes about that MySpace was neglient to the extend that that did nothing to prevent contact from anyone with a documented backgroup of sexual offenses and its "customers" - then yes MySpace needs to answer for that. The folks ranting about the purpose of the site to be a sex meeting place are flat out insane though, to my knowledge (granted I never use sites like myspace and all -- personally, I find them pointless, silly and a tremendous waste of time) they are designed or billed to be dating sites or even meeting places for the "physical" world. Meeting place online yes, but. But if it comes out that any site that "brings people together" needs to be responsible for the fashion its members interact then we better make the rules apply to ALL IM and Chat sites as well.

I'm still not convinced this girl, at 14 (or maybe I don't know how rare it is for my two nieces -- one hitting 14 this fall and one already 22 to be incredibly mature for their ages)...to be so naive.

Finally for the record, I think the girl was stupid in this case -- but some posts are saying she deserved it....that is flat out wrong and very sick. She didn't deserved to be abused, she was stupid and should of had more common sense..but she didn't deserve it.



lack of common sense + parental guidance
By aw917 on 6/20/2006 9:44:03 AM , Rating: 2
Perhaps the girl should sue her mother for not teaching her common sense.




RE: lack of common sense + parental guidance
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 9:47:07 AM , Rating: 2
How do you know she didn't?

I can't believe the number of posters here who are so quick to jump to the conclusion that (a) the girl wanted it or deserved it, that (b) the parent(s) were not doing their job at all, and that (c) the suit is only motivated by greed. These are conclusions that are not supported by the facts presented in the news article. These conclusions are pure extrapolation of stereotypes we have in our mind that may or may not apply in this case.


RE: lack of common sense + parental guidance
By aw917 on 6/20/2006 9:51:20 AM , Rating: 2
Having a stranger pick you up from school clearly does not exercise sense. Moreover, she gave out personal information online. Several news articles agree on these facts.


By TomZ on 6/20/2006 9:58:10 AM , Rating: 2
You must not have any parenting experience. Just because you teach your child something, doesn't mean they will obey. Actually, I think even children know this.


RE: lack of common sense + parental guidance
By samuraiBX on 6/20/2006 10:34:33 AM , Rating: 2
READ THE ARTICLE! Obviously you haven't read it. Explain, then that they conducted a 'series of emails and telephone calls' to set up their date; that the 'don't talk to strangers' rule didn't come through anywhere; and the statements by counsel for her $30M? As a soon to be parent I know it will be hard but parenting requires footwork and caring enough to find out what's going on.


By TomZ on 6/20/2006 10:42:37 AM , Rating: 2
Again, as I said above, just because you teach your child something, this doesn't ensure they will actually do what you say. You'll learn this soon enough. :o)

In other words, just because the child did something she shouldn't have, you can't conclude that the parent didn't teach the child right/wrong, warn her about myspace, etc. Parenting is not foolproof, even when done well.

Anyway, the fact that the child engaged in those conversations didn't mean that she wanted to be assaulted either.

My point really is that there is not enough information in the news article to assess "fault" to any one party, with the exception obviously of the man alleged to have committed the crimes.


RE: lack of common sense + parental guidance
By Hypernova on 6/20/2006 10:37:02 AM , Rating: 2
Any children with common sense of danger would follow what the parent tought them about strangers. I knew that much when I was 4.

This girl went out ALONE(how hard is it to get a friend to come along) with a STRANGER(meeting online counts nothing).

The very least she could have done is get the guy to meet the mother and give the guy the impression that she knows who did what to her daughter since hes the last guy in line and will be held accountable. How hard is it to introduce a friend to your parent? really?


RE: lack of common sense + parental guidance
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 10:49:09 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Any children with common sense of danger would follow what the parent tought them about strangers.

Bull - children don't understand the nature of the dangers involved and have little/no perception of danger. Even when you teach your children about the "dangers of strangers," that is a very confusing message to children, since they see their parents interacting with strangers any time they go out into the world - we talk with strangers at the store, at the park, etc. Dangerous strangers look just like friendly strangers - how can kids tell them apart?

Also, don't forget that at this age, kids are very interested in meeting other kids, especially of the opposite sex. In this case, the man said he was a high school student, football player. To a 13 year old girl, that might sound pretty appealing, and I doubt many girls that age would be seriously concerned about running into trouble in that kind of situation.

It's real easy to sit back and judge the situation, without knowing anything about people involved, and without knowing any of the detailed facts. But I think such judgements are jumping to conclusions.


By Decaydence on 6/21/2006 6:52:09 PM , Rating: 2
Tomz, it seems like you are projecting your inability to be an effective parent on the rest of us. Let's ignore the fact that you and this woman can't instill basic common sense in your children. If the mother didn't want her daughter talking to strange people, she should have blocked myspace, had the computer in an open area, and paid attention to what the girl was doing when on the computer/phone.

You act like no one without children could possibly understand what is involved with teaching children responsibility. Well, in case you haven't thought it through, we have all been children with parents. This perspective offers even more insight into the reaction of a child to parental influence. I never got raped by some dude that I met over the internet, because no one on the internet ever knew anything other than the nickname I was using at the time. This was common sense, simply because my parents instilled it in me.


stupidity reigns supreme...
By otispunkmeyer on 6/20/2006 2:03:32 PM , Rating: 2
and suprise suprise they're american

people like this are the reason everything comes with the most horrendously obvious warnings, ie !warning toaster may get hot! ... no fucking shit eh?!

seriously this claim is stupid, its not like myspace made her talk to a random stranger. its like jabbing your self with a knife then suing the manufacturer for not telling you the knife is sharp will injur you if used idiotically

people like this deserve to be abducted...its their own stupid dumbass fault




RE: stupidity reigns supreme...
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 2:12:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
people like this deserve to be abducted...its their own stupid dumbass fault

You are the pot calling the kettle black. Sorry, but blaming a child victim for her sexual assault is not just wrong and insensitive, it is also stupid.


RE: stupidity reigns supreme...
By goku on 6/20/2006 5:16:54 PM , Rating: 2
Why? The kid is 14, she should fscking know better than that. Unless she is incredibly stupid and or her parent's are, there is no excuse. The kid is likely extremely gullable/naive and thats why this happened. Fscking monitoring your kids every damn move is stupid, instead of creating solutions to the problems, how about people fscking not have the problems in the first place???

Example
Kid is about to touch the stove while it's one
Parent tells the kid no, don't touch it
Kid asks why and parent says "cause I said so"
Kid is about to touch the stove again, but parent is dealing with another kid, kid burns hand, lesson learned? (Hopefully)

So instead of the above scenario happening, how about the parent tells the kid not to touch the stove because it will hurt them.


RE: stupidity reigns supreme...
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 5:25:13 PM , Rating: 2
1. We are talking about a child here. 14 is still a child, sorry. Still lacks the maturity to make the decision.

2. No girl or woman deserves to be sexually assaulted (raped) regardless of the situation. It cannot be justified under any circumstance.

Your analogy between rape and kid learning a lesson by burning his/her finger on a hot stove is sick and wrong, sorry. Sexual assault is not justifyable, period.


RE: stupidity reigns supreme...
By Clauzii on 6/20/2006 10:08:11 PM , Rating: 2
Yep!


RE: stupidity reigns supreme...
By goku on 6/20/2006 11:55:25 PM , Rating: 2
1. Rape !=Assault
2. You clearly didn't read my post carefully, because if you did, you'd realize it makes sense.

My point was instead of protecting the kid every time it's about to do something stupid, with the kid constantly about to do something stupid, how about you teach the kid [i]not to act stupid[/i] You telling me a 14 is a child shows that you have no faith in minors, you believe they can't "know any better" and it's all on the parent.. A 17 year old gets fscked up when driving from his white suburban neighborhood to downtown west oakland, whose fault is it? All on the parents? Or is it partly the kids fault?

Kids don't take responsibility these days, and you know what happens when they don't? They grow up to adults who do the same thing and end up sueing companies instead of teaching their kid's how NOT to act stupid..


RE: stupidity reigns supreme...
By TomZ on 6/21/2006 8:41:59 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Rape !=Assault

Wrong. Sexual assault is the legal term for rape. http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Servi...

I did read your post, and I re-read it. I agree with you that this girl did not a smart thing. Kids sometimes do things that are not smart. But the theme of your post is that the sexual assault was her fault because she made that mistake. Clearly the sexual assault is not her fault, period. I'm not saying I believe it is myspace's fault (the judge and jury can decide if they were negligent) - but it is not the child's fault.


RE: stupidity reigns supreme...
By Clauzii on 6/22/2006 12:15:37 AM , Rating: 2
To teach the kids not to act stupid, as You so write it is against all common sense :)

Kids ARE stupid - don't know a shit - Gotta learn from adults.... (or by doing, which is the very rough way in life to walk)

Until the stupid adults learn, how will the kids??


RE: stupidity reigns supreme...
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 3:20:21 PM , Rating: 2
Do research on the development of the brain and when complex issues like sexuality and relationships become something a person actually understands. You'll find that it's quite a bit later than 14 or even 18.

It is never right to blame someone for getting raped. If this were your little sister, your stance would be quite different, no matter your nation of origin. I almost wish that America wasn't the wealthiest nation in which it is easiest to live a dream. I'm sick of being a target from people from every other nation when they don't like something......but I digress.

Your oversimplification actually changes the focus quite a bit because moving from a hot stove to a relationship changes everything about the portions of the brain and the level of skill involved in the process. I'm fairly sure that the girl involved would not touch a hot stove even if the parent told her she should.


Dawn
By Wwhat on 6/20/2006 10:56:53 AM , Rating: 2
Doesn't it dawn on anybody that the the suit is not about getting assaulted or being a moron but is about getting their greedy grubby dirty hands on 30 million dollar?
I hope the cops check out if the guy and girl and her family didn't set the whole thing up together for easy cash.
I also hope and assume the judge will put the girl in jail for 6 months for insulting the court.




RE: Dawn
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 11:37:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Doesn't it dawn on anybody that the the suit is not about getting assaulted or being a moron but is about getting their greedy grubby dirty hands on 30 million dollar?

It's amazing that you have the ability and insight to know what that family is thinking and what their motivations are. Maybe you're wrong, and maybe mom was kind of angry that her 13-year old daughter was assaulted, and she decided she would do something about it, to make a change for the good. Let's see... now how do you get a corporation to change its behavior? Oh yea, a big lawsuit - that usually works. Maybe her actions will ultimately save others from being victimized.

The reason for $30 million figure could be to get myspace's (and the media's) attention. This is the right thing to do if you want change. It could also be greed, but we don't know for sure one way or the other.
quote:
I hope the cops check out if the guy and girl and her family didn't set the whole thing up together for easy cash.

I think you are choosing to look at this situation from a very cynical view. There is no evidence in the news article to suggest that there is fraud or extortion going on here.


RE: Dawn
By Wwhat on 6/21/2006 6:22:51 AM , Rating: 2
Yes there is evidence, namely that ANYBODY that reads this news says 'what the hell has myspace to do with this' and yet they sue myspace, and ask 30 million.
Now if we look at what americans will do for money, then we look at how many bogus suits are done in america, then we combine these statistical trends with known human psychology and end up with having a reason to get very suspicious.
It's not very amazing to deduce what they are likely to be thinking at all if you even have a passing familiarity with human behavior.
I also like to point out that the term 'sexually assaulted' is very broad, the guy cold have touched her breast and it would be 'sexually assaulted' or even her arm if they really push it, obviously he didn't have sex with her because that would be reported as 'rape'.
And even the dailytech reporter decided to use the word 'she claims' in his article.
Lastly I find it very coincidental that the suit also seems aimed and worded to be exactly like recent political moves against myspace as far as I can tell, very convenient isn't it.


RE: Dawn
By TomZ on 6/21/2006 9:06:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yes there is evidence, namely that ANYBODY that reads this news says 'what the hell has myspace to do with this' and yet they sue myspace, and ask 30 million.

So our gut emotional reaction when reading a news article is "evidence"? I don't think that will hold up in court. Clearly, this article is written to give you that knee-jerk reaction, because the author probably feels that the lawsuit is unreasonable. If the article was written differently, e.g., by the family's attorney, then you would probably read it and react differently, feeling that the lawsuit was justified. In any case, the way you feel about something does not provide any evidence. Evidence is about facts.
quote:
Now if we look at what americans will do for money, then we look at how many bogus suits are done in america, then we combine these statistical trends with known human psychology and end up with having a reason to get very suspicious.

Most Americans go to work for money. It is well-known that there are unreasonable lawsuits, but the vasy majority of the thousands of lawsuits filed every day in this country are not like that. Just talk to any attorney and you'll understand what I mean. You'll be hard pressed to find any attorney working on unreasonable multi-million dollar suits. Most attorneys are working on suits where there is a reasonable dispute that they have not been able to otherwise settle.
quote:
I also like to point out that the term 'sexually assaulted' is very broad, the guy cold have touched her breast and it would be 'sexually assaulted' or even her arm if they really push it, obviously he didn't have sex with her because that would be reported as 'rape'.

No, you are wrong about that. First, the term 'sexual assault' is the legal term for rape, but you are right in that it encompasses other types of offenses besides rape.

http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Servi...

But the reason it is called 'sexual assault' in this case is that the victim is a child, and so the details are kept confidential. Even if it was a 'rape,' the press releases would label it 'sexual assault.'
quote:
And even the dailytech reporter decided to use the word 'she claims' in his article.

You are naive about this. Unless convicted in a court of law, all journalists take this precaution, because if the guy is found out to be innocent, he can later sue the publication(s) for slander:

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/s052.htm

quote:
Lastly I find it very coincidental that the suit also seems aimed and worded to be exactly like recent political moves against myspace as far as I can tell, very convenient isn't it.

As I stated above, it is my view this article is written to give you the feeling that the suit is unreasonable, but this is just my opinion. But to get to your point, I think your conspiracy theory that there is some greater power at work trying to take down myspace is kind of humorous. I think the media is giving myspace a lot of negative PR lately mostly because of the obvious concern about the safety of children using the site.


RE: Dawn
By Wwhat on 6/21/2006 10:16:59 AM , Rating: 2
It is obvious that you have a too close a relationship with lawyers to see anything with common sense, and yet you lack the detailed knowledge for me to assume you are a lawyer yourself, so dad is?
As for my first argument, that everybody says 'ridiculous' can actually be used in a court of law, 'general perception' and 'common expectation' are both used and often valid arguments, although I used it not as a legal argument but to show that we all know it's ridiculous to go at myspace over this, she gave her number herself, that is clearly not myspace's fault.
As for my remark about what americans are willing to do for money: I did not at any time claim all americans goto extremes, but if like in this case an obvious frivolous suit is initiated with a potential payoff of 30 million dollars it would be quite mad to not investigate if there was not something more sinister going on.
And yes perhaps they would use 'sexual assault' but the lawyer of the guy would hear the real charge if it was rape, or the so called 'statutory rape', and so far I seldom see the press then not getting their hands on it once it hits the main news.
As for my remark about the term 'she claims', yes you would avoid slander but why not the way the original article did with 'she says', the use of the word 'claim' hints at a possible disputed assertion, but on the other hand perhaps the writer on dailytech simply used the first word at hand.
As for the last remark about the political conveniance, I think the press being on this subject is of no importance in my point here, my point was that once there is a political interest there is also an interest to use and blow out of proportion any incident that can help their political cause, so the mother might for instance be payed or pushed into starting a frivolous suit, possibly with the promise of the ones having an interest of paying her lawyers if it fails.
I do not think this is too farfetched if you read the news and see what's going on, congress people editing false information into wikipedia on political motivation for instance, these people have few hesitations.
Iwold also like to point out that I already read about this suit on other sites before reading it on dailytech, and in all instances I did not perceive their suit as a anything but frivolous, if you feel the article presents it biassed it would be because it's not really possible to not see a suit like this agains myspace for something totally outside myspace as anything but silly.
Perhaps she should sue al gore too for 'inventing' internet? or the military for their ARPA project? or bell labs for inventing the transistor? how about she sues the church for their god creating sexuality? I assume that's all reasonable for some lawyers.


RE: Dawn
By TomZ on 6/21/2006 12:00:20 PM , Rating: 2
I have no relationship with lawyers, nor am I a lawyer, nor are either of my parents lawyers.

I think I am open-minded to the possibility that myspace did not do all they could have/should have to protect children. That's why this lawsuit interests me. I also think the lawsuit, regardless of the outcome, will spur myspace into working harder to improve their privacy controls, which now seem to be quite ineffective.


RE: Dawn
By Wwhat on 6/21/2006 2:06:11 PM , Rating: 2
The whole idea of myspace is to share information about yourself, to find people with common interests/views/enjoyments or that generally seem nice to you.
You cannot do that by not sharing info, this is 2006 and that's how kids go about stuff.
Also it was NOT myspace that gave him her phonenumber but she herself and she set up a meeting with him.
It's nice to disagree with you btw, we seem to manage to not get too angry :)
Still my posts are getting a bit longwinded and the topic is getting overtalked perhaps.


RE: Dawn
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 2:57:50 PM , Rating: 2
Civil vs. criminal court. Completely different. Law suits awarded by juries are most often stricken down and reduced by judges anyway. Check on the real amount that the woman who spilled her McDonald's coffee got. (By the way, were you aware that this particular McDonald's was knowingly heating their coffee well beyond the normal temperatures solely for the purpose of making the local 'coffee clutch' drink less and making a better profit? It was brought up at trial, but not in the cliff notes version that made the public's consciousness.


blame the kid
By msva124 on 6/20/2006 1:11:34 PM , Rating: 2
What an idiot for going to meet some random guy on the internet when you are a 14-year old girl. Being under the age of 18 does no excuse you from being a complete dumbass. Get a brain.




RE: blame the kid
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 1:20:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What an idiot for going to meet some random guy on the internet when you are a 14-year old girl. Being under the age of 18 does no excuse you from being a complete dumbass. Get a brain.

You are the pot calling the kettle black. Sorry, but blaming a child victim for her sexual assault is not just wrong and insensitive, it is also stupid.


RE: blame the kid
By msva124 on 6/20/2006 5:14:59 PM , Rating: 2
As we increasingly child proof the world for these semi-retarded minors, they will keep doing dumber and dumber things. I love how if this were a 14-year old accused of murder they would want to try them as an adult, but in the case of this girl she can't possibly have been expected to exercise good judgment. Even when 95% of the girls her age would do the smart thing and decline to meet up with the older guy.


RE: blame the kid
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 5:26:57 PM , Rating: 2
While I agree that the decision she made doesn't seem very smart, the consequence for a child making a wrong decision should not be sexual assault/rape. I cannot believe anyone would agree with the logic that she deserved it. That is sick and wrong.


RE: blame the kid
By msva124 on 6/20/2006 5:46:00 PM , Rating: 2
You cannot believe that anyone would agree with something sick and wrong? Wake up, my friend. The world is full of sick people, sexual predators, and vengeful mothers alike.


RE: blame the kid
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 3:28:11 PM , Rating: 2
Your argument disproves itself. You're saying that 14 year old rape victims are responsible, but 14 year old criminals should not be tried as adults. Pick one side, would you? In playing devil's advocate, you argue against your own point.

All 14 year olds make bad decisions-it's a fact of life and of biology. That is why there is a well-established need for a juvenile court and why juveniles are afforded different protections under law. In this case, both apply and the girl had a right to be safer than an adult and if a 14 year old commits a crime, original jurisdiction rests in juvenile court due to the age of the offender and the (correct) assumption that children have less ability to make informed decisions than adults.


RE: blame the kid
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 3:55:47 PM , Rating: 2
"semi-retarded minors"

You accidentally stumbled on a correct theme (even if the statement is devoid of elegance and eloquence). People this age simply do not have the capacity to be 100% responsible for their actions. It is a fact of biology that the portions of the brain used for complex, rational, calculated (read: adult-type) thought are just beginning to develop.

Child-proofing is a necessity. That is the whole point. If you design a medium for people who are widely regarded as needing protection, you have a responsibility to protect them.

Design a dangerous crib, see what happens. How about a bicycle that's more dangerous than others? Build a car that's more dangerous. All of these are ludicrous because nobody would do them. The reasons why nobody would do them are, sorry to say because people used to do them and those businesses that did were sued and either had to change their practice or go out of business.

Their is a responsibility to be placed on parents as well. The parents involved, and others concerned should organise an awareness campaign and/or email campaign to inform myspace execs that they want more protections built in and that as the consumers, they will not be using the service until there is more protective capacity. I doubt this will happen, but that would be one proper way of dealing with the situation.

By the way, the 800 gorilla that nobody is talking about is that myspace is owned by Rupert Murdoch, owner of the Fox networks and 3/4 of the Republican party. But that's probably it's own thread as to whether or not he capitalizes on his power and money while exploiting others.....


RE: blame the kid
By Wwhat on 6/21/2006 9:42:36 PM , Rating: 2
So how exactly could myspace have prevented it baring simply closing down or only letting adults on?
And that's no solution for the kids would simply find another venue to get together online.
They did not post her address or phonenumber and all information she entered was done so by herself under the authority of her parents who let her have a computer and internet.
(p.s.: I still think it's all a scam to get money.)


Who the f... uses MySpace anyway?
By Clauzii on 6/20/2006 6:17:14 PM , Rating: 2
After I signed up to MySpace weeks ago it did not take more than literally around 30 seconds before the first trojan was attempting to slip into my machine. Deleted account and goodbye :)

Antway there is so much sh.. on it anyway ...




RE: Who the f... uses MySpace anyway?
By ziggo on 6/20/2006 10:08:28 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder why she isnt sueing the school system if the girl was picked up from school. The Public education system has been a magnet for stupid lawsuits.

The only crime commited here was the 19yr old assulting the girl. MySpace is no more at fault than the air that provides a meduim for sound waves to propagate through so people can talk at any public place.

I am no parent, in fact I am only 21, but in my view the internet is a public domain on a huge scale and should be treated as such. A lack of supervision is akin to letting your child loose in New York and should be treated as such.


RE: Who the f... uses MySpace anyway?
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 10:59:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
MySpace is no more at fault than the air that provides a meduim for sound waves to propagate through so people can talk at any public place.

You might be right, or you might be wrong. But luckily there will be a judge and jury that will actually have the facts (which you don't) as well as knowledge of the law and how that applies (which I assume you also don't have).


RE: Who the f... uses MySpace anyway?
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 11:02:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I am no parent, in fact I am only 21, but in my view the internet is a public domain on a huge scale and should be treated as such.

Forgot to mention, that is wrong, too. The Internet is built by and managed by people working at companies. They have to follow the law. Especially in this case, where clearly MySpace is a corporation which is subject to the law, the court system, and civil suits.


RE: Who the f... uses MySpace anyway?
By ziggo on 6/21/2006 11:17:53 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Forgot to mention, that is wrong, too. The Internet is built by and managed by people working at companies. They have to follow the law. Especially in this case, where clearly MySpace is a corporation which is subject to the law, the court system, and civil suits.


The physical world was built and managed by companies. Taxes built the road where a drunk driver crashed into and killed someone else. Someone built the road but failed to provide enough protection from drunk drivers, lets sue them too.


RE: Who the f... uses MySpace anyway?
By TomZ on 6/21/2006 11:55:12 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The physical world was built and managed by companies. Taxes built the road where a drunk driver crashed into and killed someone else. Someone built the road but failed to provide enough protection from drunk drivers, lets sue them too.

No, because there was no negligence in building the road. This suit is claiming that myspace was negligent.


RE: Who the f... uses MySpace anyway?
By ziggo on 6/21/2006 2:43:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The suit alleges that because MySpace has no age or identity verification measures in place and does not prevent strangers from contacting users under the age of 16 that the site is negligent in the assault that occurred.


The builders of the road were negligent because they didnt include a mandatory breathalizer before you are allowed access to the road.

Its the same arguement, it just sounds even more ridiclous when applied to another situation.


By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 3:31:43 PM , Rating: 2
The physical world was built and managed by companies. Taxes built the road where a drunk driver crashed into and killed someone else. Someone built the road but failed to provide enough protection from drunk drivers, lets sue them too.

But if there was a domain, let's say a state where drunk driving were legal despite the risks, would it be appropriate to sue that state? Or would you say, hey you should have stayed off the road.

The negligence being alleged is that myspace has a responsiblity to provide some safeguards for its membership that it did not. Nobody is suing Belkin for making the router or the maker of the ethernet cords.


Only in the good ole U.S of A
By phatboye on 6/20/2006 8:45:35 AM , Rating: 2
Only in the Only in the good ole U.S of A can one person sue someone else for their own stupidity.




RE: Only in the good ole U.S of A
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 9:39:52 AM , Rating: 2
With your logic and reading of the facts that we know, you find the girl responsible for the assult? Simply amazing logic that is.


RE: Only in the good ole U.S of A
By Xenoid on 6/20/2006 10:56:37 AM , Rating: 2
Nobody forced her to talk to and perhaps meet said 19 year old for a good round of fucking which she clearly consented to because she know it'd make her social standing skyrocket.

Unless you know, maybe there was a person with a gun to her head the whole time and I'm the one that's completely wrong here.


RE: Only in the good ole U.S of A
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 11:42:26 AM , Rating: 2
Real intelligent post that was. Because, you know, most women who are sexually assaulted actually consent to it - NOT. You are living in a fantasy world, not the real world.


RE: Only in the good ole U.S of A
By rrsurfer1 on 6/20/2006 2:01:33 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, this poster is not living in the real world. In reality, many girls are so scared when they are in a situation like this they just freeze up and everything happens while their in a state of denial. I've known many girls this type of thing has happened to and none deserved it, and there was never a gun involved.


By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 2:49:57 PM , Rating: 2
I'm very sorry you know nothing about human behavior or abuse, but please try not to spread your misinformation so recklessly.


By Decaydence on 6/20/2006 7:07:29 PM , Rating: 2
Obviously the guy that assaulted her is responsible for the assault. No one denies that. Saying myspace is responsible for the assault is definately as rediculous as saying the girl is. All he is saying is that if we are trying to find someone to blame other than the assaulter, which everyone that supports the litigation is trying to do, there is certainly more reason to blame the girl and her mother. If I post my address in a bathroom stall of a bar in which known thugs hang out and write "looking for someone to fix my broken locks", it is the criminals fault when I get robbed, but I still carry more blame than the bar.


Age verifation
By Lonearchon on 6/20/2006 9:20:23 AM , Rating: 2
They want mysace.com to do something they can not. If they require age verfication then your limited the site to people over 16 that have drivers licences and over 18 for credit cards. 14 yos don't have ether.




RE: Age verifation
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 9:27:59 AM , Rating: 2
Parents could be required to be involved, to "certify" the age of their children, as well as their consent for their children to participate.

Probably not foolproof, but maybe a step in the right direction?


RE: Age verifation
By mechwarrior1989 on 6/20/2006 10:34:52 AM , Rating: 2
It really wouldn't do anything as Myspace certainly wouldn't want to spend the resources to actually call parents so they'd probably just set up some system where it asks for the parental's email address. Like that's going to work.
Back in the day whenever I encountered something like that I just typed in another of my own email address and whooo I was in. Not any bad sites mind you just signing up for things that require you to be like 13 and up. Plus if you look at a lot of the profiles on myspace, kids lie about their age for no apparant reason. My myspace says I'm 99, that's obviously not true but the whole if you're below 14/15 your profile is set to private is a joke. Plus they teach kids not to put in their real age, ok so some kid who's 14 puts that their 87 well now their profile is no long private. I can't remember if myspace requires people to put in their address at sign up, I'm pretty sure they don't, but I would think it'd be smart if they just logged any comments/messages that contained certain catch phrases and just contacted the parentals if they thought anything was going down.


RE: Age verifation
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 10:53:27 AM , Rating: 2
So your argument is that there is no room for improvement, no opportunities for myspace to make it safer?

If you answered yes, then you obviously have zero creativity. I'm not saying my proposal is a good one. I'm just saying there is currently nearly zero protection, and if myspace were to think about it a little bit, I'm sure they could come up with something. The benefit of the lawsuit is that is will give them some financial incentive to do the same.


RE: Age verifation
By rushnrockt on 6/20/2006 12:05:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
no opportunities for myspace to make it safer?


Yeah there are. You can also go ahead and demand age verification for shopping malls. I see plenty of college guys hitting on teenage girls there and it's been that way long before Internet came to be. So, why don't you tell us more about improving safety of shopping malls? Or streets? Age verify anyone talking to anyone and jail anyone talking to minors.
There is no benefit to the lawsuit, its groundless to begin with and will undermine any future lawsuits against internet companies where they are in fact at fault.
And while at it, why haven't any other social networking sites been sued? It would make the most sense to clamp down on all of them at the same time. So stop being an apologist and recognize a lawyer driven case when you see one.


RE: Age verifation
By Decaydence on 6/21/2006 6:44:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So your argument is that there is no room for improvement, no opportunities for myspace to make it safer?

If you answered yes, then you obviously have zero creativity. I'm not saying my proposal is a good one.


You have run around this thread claiming people have zero creativity or no common sense then your only contribution on how to make this safer is "parental consent" with absolutely no systematic suggestions to back it up. The point is, short of making people sign up in person, there is absolutely no way to do what you are talking about. Don't condemn us for your inability to understand technology. So rediculous.


Throw this out
By xKelemvor on 6/20/2006 10:18:31 AM , Rating: 2
Hopefully they get a judge that tells off the mother for being a jackass and reams the kid for not having an ouce of common sense.

Is there anyone left in the world that doesn't know that MySpace is just a hang out for pedophiles...




RE: Throw this out
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 10:58:13 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Is there anyone left in the world that doesn't know that MySpace is just a hang out for pedophiles...

Uh, yea. Do you think so many people would use it if they thought it was like that? Heck one of the posters pointed this out a few posts above yours.
quote:
Apparently you don't use Myspace. It is not for pedophiles and creeps. While there may be some on there, the majority of the people on there are just normal people who use Myspace for communication with their friends and finding old friends from high school and such.

Anyway, if everybody knows it as you say, then myspace knows it, right? And then doesn't that make them liable?


RE: Throw this out
By xKelemvor on 6/20/2006 11:59:57 AM , Rating: 2
Of course it doesn't. Just like eBay isn't liable for someone selling counterfeit stuff on their site. They can't control what everyone does. THey put rules in place and by using their service you agree to follow them. If you then break those rules, they may or not ever find out....

Myspace has no way of doing anything about what people do on their site except putting up a disclaimer that says "Don't use this if you are under 18". But of course that would have no real effect anyway...


RE: Throw this out
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 12:57:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Just like eBay isn't liable for someone selling counterfeit stuff on their site.

Not sure where you got that idea, because it's not true. If my friend robs a bank and I drive the get-away car, I'm also going to jail. If eBay is aware of someone using their service to break the law, and they fail to act on it, they they are also breaking the law and can be held liable both criminally and in civil suits.


RE: Throw this out
By Decaydence on 6/21/2006 9:07:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If my friend robs a bank and I drive the get-away car, I'm also going to jail.


Hahah, I've never seen someone so horrible at creating analogies in my life.

quote:
If eBay is aware of someone using their service to break the law, and they fail to act on it, they they are also breaking the law and can be held liable both criminally and in civil suits.


So it is your opinion that myspace knew that this specific man was speaking with and looking to take advantage of this specific little girl? Again, you offer an analogy that doesn't even approach applying to the circumstance. Of course myspace knows there are people that are trying to use their service to take advantage of children, they don't know when, where, how, or who is doing it. Under this circumstance, you are as culpable as Myspace. YOU know that people are trying to take advantage of children on myspace, why don't you stop them?

Obviously if Myspace knows of specific circumstances, they will shut them down, but short of shutting the entire system down, there is nothing that can be done. Just like Ebay knows people are trying to defraud people, but nothing can be done until after it already happens. Only the people using the service can prevent these things from happening to themselves.


RE: Throw this out
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 2:54:51 PM , Rating: 2
Kids this age don't have common sense. It's the same reason that babies can't walk when they are born-biological brain development. Decision making is governed by the higher funcioning parts of the brain and isn't well developed until early to mid 20's.

By the same token, if your contention is that myspace is widely regarded as a hangout for pedophiles, then the same case you're saying should be thrown out is an obvious winner. It's not legal to create any situation, website or otherwise that is dangerous to the general public and without redeeming value.


sue sue sue sue
By 8steve8 on 6/20/2006 8:42:19 AM , Rating: 3
i imagine she was happy to talk to a 19 yr old guy, and agreed to meet, thinking how cool she was.... and probably consented to sex or whatever they did... being so impressed by him and the success of herself in getting the interest of this relatively mature man....

then her mom found out and was beyond pissed, found out they met online and blamed "online" instead of herself, or him, or no one.

heres something new: young girls like talking to older guys.... and like a comment above astutely mentioned... online is nothing different from real life...

guess what if your a 25 yr old guy at a nightclub, the 18 yr old girls would rather talk/kiss/etc with you than the 18yr old version of yourself....
f

14 to 19 while hugely different in maturity, its only 5 yrs difference in age... the global avg age difference in say, marrage is 2, so 5 is not so abnormal,,, in 10 yrs their partnership will be typical....
24 yr old woman love 29yr old men...
they just do.

anyway i mean yeah, sue myspace, those bastards!




RE: sue sue sue sue
By Oderus on 6/20/2006 9:14:42 AM , Rating: 2
It's the American dream. Blame everyone else. It's always someone else's fault. The US trade deficit is China's problem, 911 was Saddam's problem and New Orleans getting screwed is Katrina's fault. It's amazing to see the lack of accountability in that country. It's terrible.


RE: sue sue sue sue
By glennpratt on 6/20/2006 11:03:34 AM , Rating: 2
Let's review every case in from your home country and make summary judgements about it's people and dreams over it. Get a life.


RE: sue sue sue sue
By Cashsells on 6/21/2006 1:06:38 AM , Rating: 2
This type of crap ticks me off! I can bet you my meager Marine Corps paycheck that if you asked that girl, NOT EVEN 2 MUNITES BEFORE, if she would get in a car with a stranger, she would say NO! I'm not the oldest/sharpest tool in the shed, but the way I was brought up is that YOU’re accountable for your own actions. I'm not saying that the misfortunate events that occurred are entirely the 2 teenagers fault, but it should be them that are ultimately held responsible. They both knew better, there's now "Should have" about it.

I moderately agree with this guy.

quote:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2931&...


What are we teaching this girl or any child for that matter? When bad things happen or you don’t get your way, JUST SUE!! Don't let them learn about cause and effect. That’s not say that the girl didn’t learn a lesson; having one of the worst things that can happen to a woman happen to her at a young age is terrible. I’m sure the culprit isn’t going to learn as hard a lesson a she. Again, I’m a stupid retard who can’t even do multiplication of high number or long division, but I just can’t get over how many people out there are worst off than me in the head. I wonder how many times she’ll make that mistake again. On top of that, I agree with MAXIMUM punishment. That 19 yr old kid should be caned or have a body part cut off. The US could learn a thing or two from countries like Singapore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore


RE: sue sue sue sue
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 2:48:57 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, because capitol punishment deters crime. Um hmm, check your stats. Criminals do not think of consequences before acting, which is the very nature of being criminal. With the obvious exceptions of organized crime and some frauds and scandals, crime happens because of impulses and/or unmet needs that can be satisfied through immediate actions: e.g. I don't like this guy, I've had 10 beers, I'm going hit him in the face. NOT, That guy is a dick, and I'm half drunk, but if I hit him I could be put in jail, fined, or have a finger cut off.

Please do some research on "internal controls" in the psychological sense.


By stncttr908 on 6/20/2006 8:48:56 AM , Rating: 2
Idiot 14 year old girl + moronic, irresponsible parent + 19 year old creep + lawsuit happy America + attorney's greed - common sense = situations like this one

I hate MySpace. It's a bastion for pedophiles and creeps such as this guy and younger people too stupid to realize the situations they're getting themselves into. If things like this lead to its downfall I think we'd all be better off.




By kextyn on 6/20/2006 9:13:09 AM , Rating: 2
Apparently you don't use Myspace. It is not for pedophiles and creeps. While there may be some on there, the majority of the people on there are just normal people who use Myspace for communication with their friends and finding old friends from high school and such.

Oh and on Myspace if you are under 15 or 16 your profile is private to anyone not on your friends list. Yes people can still send you a message and then you can add them to your friends list but you do so at your own risk.


By stncttr908 on 6/20/2006 10:24:08 AM , Rating: 2
Does MySpace provide any confirmation of a user's age? I'm not trying to be a wise-arse, I'm just wondering.

Many people I know that uses it generally does so to meet people to have sex with and little else. Sites used for that purpose my many should have better methods in place to protect young people too stupid for their own good, that's all I'm saying.


By rrsurfer1 on 6/20/2006 1:28:21 PM , Rating: 2
Nope. You can lie on there just like you can in real life. How the hell would they verify your age?


By rushfan2006 on 6/20/2006 2:50:26 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly...

"well they could verify your age with a credit card" oh yeah right..because no teen in the history of the world EVER swiped their parent's credit card?

Any credential they ask for online to verify age is not reliable...even if you say you need the parent's voice on the phone -- well how do you verify that's the parent...couldn't someone just ask an older friend, relative or maybe even someone has an unusually deep voice for their young age?



So many places for this to happen
By GepardK on 6/21/2006 11:50:40 AM , Rating: 2
Myspace is just the most publicized of many sites that allow this sort of thing to go on. Check out yahoo chat sometime, any age is allowed and there are sites full of teens sharing tons of information and getting very sexual at all ages, I'm sure that a predator could lurk there just as easily as anywhere else. It's a fact of kids learning some responsibility and parents watching for what they do. The mother may want to make a point but she's putting herself at the center of a media circus and making a mockery out of her daughter for the bad decisions the daughter made. I'm sorry but that's the stupidest part of this. The girl didn't deserve what happened but now it's across the country and the girl's life is changed even more than by just the sexual assault; for that I think the mother is to blame for hurting her daughter more.




RE: So many places for this to happen
By Clauzii on 6/21/2006 7:12:58 PM , Rating: 2
But in the end we don't know if they are really teens, do we?

I see a lot of phishers out there - like a 40+ year old guy pretending he is a boy at 18.

Persanally I think some kind of verification is needed if this problem shall be solved.


RE: So many places for this to happen
By CowboyJTE on 6/24/2006 2:22:15 AM , Rating: 2
No, thanks... I would very much like to keep my Drivers ID off the internet, mmmmk?
And as far as my C/C. They arent charging me for service, they dont need my Credit Card.


By CowboyJTE on 6/24/2006 2:22:48 AM , Rating: 2
While you're at it, why dont you tell them to ask for my Social Too, hmmm?


;) xe xe xe xe xe xe:)
By eziosms on 6/20/2006 9:01:08 AM , Rating: 2
So stupid things only possible in USA:) A country of so stupid people




By chickenselects on 6/20/2006 9:05:31 AM , Rating: 2
I bet your on myspace right now ranting about it too.


RE: ;) xe xe xe xe xe xe:)
By superkdogg on 6/21/2006 2:50:38 PM , Rating: 2
The USA, where we don't post in other countries until we understand their languages.


Talking...
By Hokum on 6/21/2006 3:48:26 AM , Rating: 2
What if the news was this?

"A suit is filed over the failure to prevent a sexual assault


A 14-year old girl and her mother have filed a $30 million lawsuit against the government for talking. The 14-year old claims she was abducted and sexually assaulted by a 19-year old man she met by talking.

The suit alleges that because talking has no age or identity verification measures in place and does not prevent strangers from contacting users under the age of 16 that the site is negligent in the assault that occurred. In a written statement to the Austin American-Statesman CSO Hemanshu Nigam said "We take aggressive measures to protect our members. We encourage everyone on the planet to engage in smart conversation practices and have open family dialogue about how to apply offline lessons in the online world." Statesman.com reports:

The lawsuit includes news reports of other assault cases in which girls were contacted through talking. They include a 22-year-old Wisconsin man charged with six counts of sexually assaulting a 14-year-old girl and a 27-year-old Connecticut man accused of sexually assaulting a 13-year-old girl. The government says on a "Tips for Parents" page that users must be 14 or older. Talking does nothing to verify the age of the user, such as requiring a driver's license or credit card number, Loewy said.

According to the report, the accused contacted the girl in April through talking. In May he picked the girl up from school and took the victim to a parking lot where he then assaulted her.

The government is certainly not without its share of criticisms lately. When not getting banned in schools or Pennsylvania legislation, the state continues to become a household name."

Would people do that?




RE: Talking...
By TomZ on 6/21/2006 8:46:13 AM , Rating: 2
The fault in your analogy is that myspace is a medium constructed by a company. Companies need to follow the law. The law of this country is that companies need to exercise reasonable care, otherwise it is "negligence":

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/n010.htm

It will be up to the judge and jury to decide if myspace was negligent, based on their examination of the facts. You and I lack the facts to come to a reasonable judgement in this case.


RE: Talking...
By superkdogg on 6/22/2006 4:00:18 PM , Rating: 2
It's a bit of a stretch, since talking actually does provide a 'user' with a lot more information than myspace. There is the tone of voice, rate of speech, and other non-verbals needed to conduct conversation that are not present in myspace. Most of these things are necessary to illicit a danger response, as text itself is by nature devoid of emotion and other non-verbals that people utilize to determine intent.

The government did not create talking, so they are not negligent. They also do not profit from talking and seek to protect their private interests despite the risk to those who pay for the service.



over and over again
By Visual on 6/20/2006 9:07:51 AM , Rating: 2
"a 22-year-old Wisconsin man charged with six counts of sexually assaulting a 14-year-old girl"
what's that, assaulting the same girls six times in a row?




RE: over and over again
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 9:12:44 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, it means that six "things" happened that broke the law. Kind of like if I went on a robbing spree and robbed three stores in a row before I got caught, then I would be charged with three counts of robbery, not one.


stupid
By flexy on 6/20/2006 10:59:00 AM , Rating: 2
>>>
Is there anyone left in the world that doesn't know that MySpace is just a hang out for pedophiles...
>>> etc..etc...

the other proof of overwhelming ignorance (should i say "stupidity" ?) is statements like those.

I dont think that myspace has a higher number of pedophiles than the average percentage of pedophile in the society itself. I am on MS long enough and know (and learned to know) MANY "normal" and nice people which i also met in real life.

Ok...let's say there IS a percentage of cowardly pedophiles on MS....like...maybe 1%..maybe 2%....OF COURSE those are the ones making the headlines.
(HOW STUPID and irresponsible i it anyway like in this case of the 14 yo girl ? Common sense - anyone ? Parents FAILED so did HER common sense - NOT the medium)

STILL - of course the 19yo is at fault too - but we cannot blame the medium for the existense of perverts or criminals.

* Let's sue YAHOO ! Maybe the 14yo used Yahoo messenger ?
(Last i know MS did NOT have a working chat, not to mention the SILLY idea of chatlogs....which also generates a whole lot of other problems [privacy])

* Let's sue all other messaging services, i am sure there is a percentage of criminal activity and/or perverts around.
ICQ...Yahoo...MSN...Skype...let's sue them !

* Let's sue AT&T, Cingular, Verizon, Cell phone makers in general and WHAT THE HECK ! let's just sue "teh intarnet" in general and also Bill Gates....there's a chance the girl used windows and therefore enabling her to go online !
How irresponsible by Microsoft. Let's also sue all other companies somehow involved in her being able to go online..starting with the power-company (computers need power)...and ending with..hmmm..let me think...maybe the girl used a bus...maybe we can sue them having provided transportation ?

* Also..like the one poster pointed out..."sexually assaulted"...obviously means not "raped".....still worth a $30M lawsuit as it seems ? And...again..on what grounds ?

I, personally, am very glad i have myspace (despites many people's "opinion")...its a GOOD way to learn to know and meet new people - it's also FREE....and no matter what service you use it does NOT give you (or your parents) a coupon to leave common sense and responsibility behind.

Proof that the parents failed (badly) is alone the fact that the girl went to meet the guy, obviously unbeknownst to the parents...the parents did NOT insist of coming with her...or giving her advice to bring friends...and other things they should have done because she is only 14 and was about to meet with someone she never met "in real life".




RE: stupid
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 11:25:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
* Let's sue YAHOO ! Maybe the 14yo used Yahoo messenger ?

The difference is that myspace knows that its service facilitates the activities of child predators and has apparently failed to provide adequate and effective protection for children. That is negligence, if those facts are correct.
quote:
* Also..like the one poster pointed out..."sexually assaulted"...obviously means not "raped".....still worth a $30M lawsuit as it seems ? And...again..on what grounds ?

Sexual assault is the legal term for rape. Please educate yourself: http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Servi...
quote:
Proof that the parents failed (badly) is alone the fact that the girl went to meet the guy, obviously unbeknownst to the parents...the parents did NOT insist of coming with her...or giving her advice to bring friends...and other things they should have done because she is only 14 and was about to meet with someone she never met "in real life".

The failure of a child to follow the teachings of the parent does not always happen due to bad parenting. Anyone who has parented before, or anyone else who thinks about it for a minute, realizes that children do not follow all of the parent's instructions all the time. So you can't assume bad parenting, unless you know for a fact that there was bad parenting in this particular case.


Lawsuit?
By freon on 6/20/2006 2:51:33 PM , Rating: 2
Sue the Internet. It's all the Internet's fault.




RE: Lawsuit?
By Clauzii on 6/22/2006 12:20:47 AM , Rating: 2
Even freedom needs bounds :)


Take some responsibility.........
By jon1003 on 6/20/2006 4:13:40 PM , Rating: 2
Can we countersue the parents for not teaching their kids not to let strangers pick them up from school? WTF!? How is it myspaces' fault? How many times has this probably happened to kids in AOHell chatrooms? Or ANY chatroom or messageboard or socialnetworking site on the internet -- LOTS. We're sorry your kids don't know any better, and you let them use the net unsupervised. "YOU" That's right, YOU let them use the net unsupervised and while we're at it, the school your kid went to let them use the net unsupervised too, let's add the school to the lawsuit so they can go broke and your dumb kid can get an even worse education. Or hey, they were at little Jenny's or Bobbie's house while on myspace, sue the neighbors also!

Take some *(&^*&^ responsibility someone!




RE: Take some responsibility.........
By TomZ on 6/20/2006 5:09:09 PM , Rating: 2
Please tell us how, from the facts contained in the news article, you determined the situation caused in this case was caused by parental irresponsibility?

Most of us don't know that family, but maybe you do?


:)
By eziosms on 6/21/2006 3:07:25 AM , Rating: 2
Now, when all studenst have guns it's more safe in schools;)




RE: :)
By Clauzii on 6/22/2006 12:21:33 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe not - the teachers don't :)


Worst..
By Chadder007 on 6/20/2006 8:24:34 AM , Rating: 2
Worst...Parent....EvAR...




By rushfan2006 on 6/20/2006 8:46:42 AM , Rating: 2
I think this supposed "case" if it even qualifies for that term, is 100% BS. Just another example of the times in which we live, another case where you have a situation that someone is going to exploit to get rich.

Thanks to the stupid juries we get anymore that award people ridiculous sums for the silliest of cases and the judges to dumb to throw the cases out and laugh in their face.

What about responsibility doesn't this family understand?

Fact 1: Hello, um...Parents -- why is MySpace.com's job to be responsible for your child? Funny thing, I remember back when my parents were raising me and my siblings, parenting back then was a 24/7/365 job that never ended. Apparently today parents schedule their hours of responsibility...how convenient.

Fact 2: The girl involved was 14 correct? Um come on guys (and girls) you mean to tell me when you were 14 you didn't have enough common sense to know when something might not be what it first appears? Another thing, if this guy did "abuse/assualt" her -- obviously that means SHE had to talk to him to get to know him, talk to him to arrange a meeting time, get directions, go to his place (or where ever, etc.)...then finally when he started making moves on her -- that's the ultimate red flag...HELLO you don't resist? You don't fight him off, you basically let him finish what he's doing? .....and after all that its "ok Myspace..your fault pay me $30 mill"....lol...

My god this world is insane....and some folks wonder why kids are violent, spoiled, punks today....we as society aren't teaching them much that's for darn sure.





Friends of all ages
By peternelson on 6/20/2006 9:16:08 AM , Rating: 2

I'm aged 37.

I have friends aged from SEVEN through to OVER 70.

I could give you my drivers license details.

But I could also give you my card details. But what would that prove? I could provide mastercards on my account to anyone over 13. Therefore possessing a mastercard does not verify a person is an adult.

Similarly someone under-age cannot prove this using a drivers license or card because they don't have them.

Therefore an adult wishing to conceal their age would just lie and say "I don't have a drivers license because I'm not old enough". Therefore it is pointless for myspace to require such details.

The crimes relevant here is abduction, abuse, molestation, rape or in some cases murder.

Consider that interaction between people of different ages may actually be healthy for society and perfectly normal. In terms of building community cohesion, mutual understanding, mentoring etc.

eg a child walks into a candy store. They are served by an adult. They may have a conversation! Do we panic? No, it's a normal part of life. Who do you think are the teachers in our schools? They are adults! I should know, I've been a schoolteacher.

When *I* was a teenager, many of my friends were adults, and there was nothing wrong in that at all.

In this case, 14 vs 19 is definitely not an unreasonable differential for friendships and acqaintances.

Is the problem her parents disapprove of the girl dating an older guy?

Is the problem here that the guy lied and said he wasn't 19?

Or is the real problem that the mother did not educate her daughter to MEET IN A PUBLIC PLACE, to TAKE STEPS TO CHECK SOMEONE OUT BEFORE YOU ARE MEETING IN PERSON, to TELL SOMEONE WHERE AND WHO YOU ARE MEETING, maybe TAKE A FRIEND, ask for PROOF OF ID when you meet them etc. If anyone is negligent here, it is the MOTHER. Maybe the daughter should sue her!

Did the girl jump into the car willingly or was she grabbed, handcuffed and shoved in? Probably the former.

The issue here is the guy turned out to be a criminal. He must be responsible for his actions. That is the crime here.

Since most people aren't criminals you can't assume all strangers are enemies.

The website is in no way to blame. This mother just smells a $30m meal ticket. There's no way she should get it.




This would never happen in Canada
By iamright on 6/20/2006 9:59:29 AM , Rating: 2
I think its a shame that these cases are even allowed to come before a judge. What a waste! There are other countries that have high slides in the parks, no cops waiting to trap people speeding (30mph) on the streets at night, and courts that aren't filled with people trying to get rich quick by sueing. If the courts would laugh at this kind of thing more people would have to be responsable. And who came up with the number of 30 million, was that just pulled out of thin air, or does it relate to some wish list this mother has?




Parenting
By Pacemaker on 6/20/2006 10:45:36 AM , Rating: 2
When I was a child my parents told me when answering the phone to NEVER say I was home alone or what my address was or any other personal information. So why are parents not doing this for the internet? I remember when we got the internet (I was about 12). I knew already that the rules of the phone applied to the Internet and I was near paranoid about giving out any information. (including my real first name which is now given out like candy on Halloween)




Reality Check
By lifeblood on 6/20/2006 10:54:16 AM , Rating: 2
Hmm, MySpace.com failed to provide adequate protections?

In May, after a series of e-mails and phone calls, he picked her up at school, took her out to eat and to a movie, then drove her to an apartment complex parking lot in South Austin, where he sexually assaulted her, police said.

What email provider was she using? They didn’t provide adequate protection either. Phone calls? Sue the phone company for also failing to provide adequate protection. Hay, I bet the company that makes the actual telephones could have also designed protections into the phone, greedy jerks. Sue them too. And society, we’re responsible too. She should sue us.

Reality check, please. 98% of the blame goes to the 19 male. He’s old enough to know better, he did it anyway. 1% goes to the girl and her parents (both parents, not just the mother). She should have known better, they should have taught her better. 1% goes to MySpace and society in general. We do a poor job of protecting and raising our young who are inexperienced and vulnerable.

In short, the 19 year old should go to jail and the lawsuit laughed out of court.




Rename MySpace to MyRape
By iamright on 6/20/2006 12:38:24 PM , Rating: 2
I think that if the court would force a name change then parrents could continue to neglect their children.

Oh and what about all those civil engineers that designed the streets that women run on at night with skimply colothing before getting raped? I think something should be done to sue those irresponsible engineers!




oops
By otispunkmeyer on 6/20/2006 2:04:52 PM , Rating: 2
theres no swear filter on this? whoops




"The Space Elevator will be built about 50 years after everyone stops laughing" -- Sir Arthur C. Clarke











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