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Print 48 comment(s) - last by YashBudini.. on Nov 11 at 2:12 PM

  (Source: F30Post)
They're due out in 2013 and 2014

BMW is due to release a slew of new turbo diesel engines in the United States throughout 2013 and 2014. 

Among those in the diesel lineup is the F30 3 Series sedan diesel, due out in the first half of 2013; the F31 3 Series touring, due out in the second half of 2013; the F10 5 Series diesel, due out in the third quarter of 2013; the X5d diesel, due out at the end of 2013; the 7 Series diesel, due in the first half of 2014, and the X3d diesel, due in the first half of 2014. 

According to F30Post, a 180 HP 4-cylinder engine may be assigned to 20d or 25d models while a 255 HP 6-cylinder engine may be assigned to 28d, 30d or 35d models. However, no official announcements have been made in that regard. 

The U.S. had some other exciting diesel-related announcements this year as well, such as Porsche's first diesel model for the U.S. (the 2013 Cayenne Diesel), and Mazda said it was bringing a diesel engine to the U.S. by 2014. 

Source: F30post


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choices are good, but need to be informed
By MadMan007 on 11/7/2012 1:39:02 AM , Rating: 3
I'm glad to see more choices coming to the automobile market. Diesel versus gasoline versus hybrid isn't a simple choice though.

Diesel mileage is better than gasoline, but it usually costs more. Right now the prices aren't too far apart but diesel has been high enough in the past that the mileage advantage is cancelled out by the price disadvantage. It does have other advantages in terms of mechanical longevity.

Hybrids have higher upfront cost but the lowest fuel costs long-term. There are questions about safety in rare incidents, as well as battery replacement costs in the very long term. I think diesel hybrids could be the best of both worlds.

I'm just afraid that many consumers won't understand these differences and do the calculations. I hope automakers educate them objectively without obfuscating facts and putting their own priorities first.




RE: choices are good, but need to be informed
By Granseth on 11/7/2012 1:47:41 AM , Rating: 3
You have to consider how you drive too.
A hybrid is much better for city driving, but if you are driving without too much start/stop it would be best to get a diesel.


By Captain Orgazmo on 11/7/2012 3:49:36 AM , Rating: 4
Typically a diesel excels at, and easily beats hybrids in highway, combined city/highway driving, and even purely city driving without too many complete stops (like crawling freeway traffic).

Diesel engines not only benefit from the increased energy density of diesel fuel versus gasoline, but also from the fact that their designs are typically more efficient due to smaller displacement (with turbos), more torque and power available at lower rpms, higher compression ratios, direct injection, and lack of spark plugs.

I recently drove a diesel rental car in Europe, and was amazed to get nearly 65 MPG with very spirited driving. Despite the fact that fuel costs were more than double there, I spent less money on fuel than I would have driving my thirsty V8 over here.


RE: choices are good, but need to be informed
By silverblue on 11/7/2012 7:50:59 AM , Rating: 2
If you don't mind me asking, which car did you rent? The more recent German/French diesels are very impressive.


By Captain Orgazmo on 11/8/2012 6:26:31 PM , Rating: 2
It was a Citroen C4. Very nice to drive too (except for the annoying gearbox... some kind of sequential manual with the flappy paddles, and an annoying auto start/stop system that you have to disable every time you start the car).


RE: choices are good, but need to be informed
By Mr Perfect on 11/7/2012 10:45:25 AM , Rating: 2
Was that US or Imperial gallons?


By Captain Orgazmo on 11/8/2012 6:27:33 PM , Rating: 2
US MPG, I converted from 1400km/50L. I think the number is about right.


By Captain Orgazmo on 11/8/2012 6:39:47 PM , Rating: 2
Also to consider, that number was from mainly highway driving, on very smooth roads, and the car had very low rolling resistance tires (combined with the smooth pavement, it was like driving in a parking garage... lots of tire squeal around corners, and the ABS going nuts trying to stop the car - quite a few sphincter clenching moments :)


RE: choices are good, but need to be informed
By fishman on 11/7/2012 7:49:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It does have other advantages in terms of mechanical longevity.


I don't think that matters that much. A gas engine should last well over 200K miles. And at that point, you have plenty of expensive systems in both gas and diesel cars that can fail, like the transmission, AC, etc, that can be a large percentage of the cars remaining value.


RE: choices are good, but need to be informed
By FITCamaro on 11/7/2012 8:25:43 AM , Rating: 2
All the more reason to get a manual. They don't fail. Just the clutch does.


By Ristogod on 11/7/2012 10:43:03 AM , Rating: 2
Tell that to the Synchros in my manual tranny.


RE: choices are good, but need to be informed
By The Melon on 11/7/2012 11:20:06 AM , Rating: 3
It does matter, allot actually. Diesel engines have to be built to withstand far higher combustion pressures than gasoline engines do and they benefit from having lower a exhaust gas temperature.

Modern turbo diesel engines have between 16 and 18:1 compression ratios PLUS 20-25psi factory boost from the turbos. Gasoline on the other hand considers 12:1 high compression and 7-10psi on a turbo is the norm. You go much higher and you have a real hard time controlling pre-combustion on gasoline.

Ford designed and tested it's 6.7l Scorpion diesel to have a minimum of 250k service life under extreme conditions before internal rebuild. I would expect a real world average of 300-500k minimum.

It is not uncommon to see consumer level diesels with more than 500k on them.


By silverblue on 11/7/2012 1:11:43 PM , Rating: 3
Amusingly, at that point, the only thing left in any sort of decent state would be the engine.


By freedom4556 on 11/7/2012 1:58:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
like the transmission, AC, etc
Don't forget the exterior, interior, trim, and electronics. Just consider how many years it takes to get 250k+ miles on a car. Using the EPA's 15,000 / year figure, quarter million comes up in just under 17 years. Take a look around for rides from 1995 and see the shape they're in. Having recently bought a used car, mechanicals are often the last thing to go.


RE: choices are good, but need to be informed
By Dr of crap on 11/7/2012 8:33:06 AM , Rating: 2
Yea I like MORE choices - but have you seen the price of diesel?
Just a few days ago gas was $3.29 and diesel was almost $4.

So any savings is gone.
Higher purchase price and higher fill ups, just to get a bit better mpg - not sure if you gain anything.


RE: choices are good, but need to be informed
By FITCamaro on 11/7/2012 9:41:20 AM , Rating: 2
The difference here between premium and diesel is about $.10. So about $.40 more than regular.


By Mr Perfect on 11/7/2012 10:44:03 AM , Rating: 3
If BMW's engines are premium gasoline(and I'm guessing they are?), then that's the comparison to be making here. Diesel would have to win out in that comparison.


RE: choices are good, but need to be informed
By Motoman on 11/7/2012 11:07:59 AM , Rating: 2
When I bought my brand-new diesel pickup truck in '03, diesel was considerably cheaper than gas.

Maybe someday it will be again. I believe the key issue is simply supply and demand...there's not as many refineries producing diesel to meet with demand, so the price stays inflated.

While I love my diesel truck, and the difference between that and a gas motor for doing actual work is amazing, I have become slightly conflicted about the fact that a given quantity of crude oil yields way less diesel than it does gas.

A barrel of crude will process through to about 19 gallons of gas, and 10 gallons of diesel. And then a whackload of other stuff, like heavier fuels/oils, shiznet that gets turned into cheap plastic tchachke, etc.

While I'm not exactly alarmist about our crude reserves, it seems relatively obvious that we need to make best use of every barrel of crude. So, to that end, the majority of cars kind of need to be gas instead of diesel.

Which is OK for me, really. I want my truck to be diesel, but if I ever save enough pennies to buy a Corvette, it had better have a large gas motor in it ;)


By Mint on 11/7/2012 1:03:02 PM , Rating: 2
I've posted this before, but I'll post it again if anyone is curious about the economics of diesel vs gas:
http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/csaba-csere-sh...

Wide adoption of diesel in the US would be pointless (not that I think you're implying that), and let developing countries (where tiny, cheap diesel engines are more important for productivity) and Europe balance out supply/demand to match the production ratio.

The cost benefit is a wash, CO2 (if you care) is worse, and while air pollution has vastly improved, diesel is still not nearly as clean as good gas engines.


RE: choices are good, but need to be informed
By Keeir on 11/7/2012 1:09:23 PM , Rating: 2
Yes and no.

A Barrel of crude can be distilled many many different ways. The majority of US refineries are actually tilted towards gasoline. I've read the yields for many different choices on refining, and its possible to distill very little gasoline from a barrel, provided you have a high demand for jet fuel.

Its gets fairly complex, but Diesel is still a slightly better per miles use of base energy (both crude oil and NG/Electricty/etc) than gasoline.

Eliminating gasoline cars (to the extend done in Europe) is counterproductive though....


RE: choices are good, but need to be informed
By silverblue on 11/7/2012 1:27:13 PM , Rating: 2
They're not exactly eliminating petrol cars over here in Europe. In fact, cleaner petrol engines have been rather popular recently. Throw in a turbo like Fiat did with the TwinAir, a tiny two-cylinder 875cc engine, and you end up with 85bhp and 150Nm of torque with a low 95g/km of CO2. It significantly outperforms the old 1.2 FIRE engines and uses less fuel whilst polluting less.

Seriously, for city and even some motorway driving, that's perfect for a small car. Some of the most popular cars over here are city cars and most of these aren't even diesels. Even with the more efficient diesels we have nowadays, not everybody drives long distances.


By Keeir on 11/7/2012 7:51:26 PM , Rating: 3
Well,

In the US, 3 gallons of gasoline are sold for each 1 gallon of Diesel. (Keep in mind most trucks use Diesel and the US has -alot- more trucking than Europe which has great sea travel lanes, canals, trains, etc), so in the passenger car market its more like 50:1)

In France, .25 gallons of gasoline are sold for each 1 gallon of Diesel

In Germany and the UK the ratio is similiar to .75 gallons of gasoline for each 1 gallon of Diesel.

The Ratio change is very dramatic (75% gasoline in US to less than 40% in Europe). Ideally as another poster has put, the best use of oil would be closer to 50-60% gasoline


By MadMan007 on 11/7/2012 12:36:03 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I made precisely that point in my post.


By superstition on 11/7/2012 4:02:22 PM , Rating: 2
Last winter, I saw diesel at $1.10 more per gallon than RUG. It was typically 80 cents higher.

Diesel seems to make more sense for passenger car owners in warmer climates. The price is more even in summer and the mileage is better.


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