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New operating system(s) could target the consumer (mobile, traditional) and enterprise spaces

In the wake of ARM Holdings Plc.'s (LON:ARM) announcement of the upcoming 2014 ARM Cortex-A50 cores, ARM's first 64-bit processors, the company had more big news to share.

Ian Forsyth, program manager at ARM, announced this week that Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) was onboard and the two companies were working together closely to make sure one or more versions of Windows support the new iteration of the low-power architecture.  

Nandan Nayampally, head of ARM's processor marketing division, wrote to PC World in an email, "ARM works with all its OS and ecosystem partners to inform them on next generation technologies and enable their support."

The current version of Windows 8 for ARM chips -- Windows RT -- only supports 32-bit chips.  Likewise, Windows Server 2012 is expected to bring ARM server chip support -- but no 64-bit support.  That's not much of a problem because, as mentioned, 64-bit ARM CPUs won't land for another two years.
Samsung Ativ Tab
Samsung's Ativ Tab is among a crop of initial Windows RT products.

Early retail Windows RT products include Microsoft's Surface and ASUSTek Computer Inc. (TPE:2357Vivo Tab RT, both of which use NVIDIA Corp.'s (NVDA) quad-core, 32-bit Tegra 3 system-on-a-chip (SoC).  Dell, Inc.'s (DELL) XPS 10 and Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (KSC:005930) P8510 Ativ Tab instead use the dual-core variety of Qualcomm, Inc.'s (QCOM) Snapdragon 4, also a 32-bit chip.

x86 software does not run natively on ARM architecture chips, or vice versa.  That means that any application you want to run will need to have been freshly recompiled for Windows on ARM (WOA).  

The grunt work is not limited to recompilation.  Microsoft will have a lot of hard work ahead looking to port and optimize Windows 8 or its successor to work with the new ARMv8 64-bit instruction set extensions.

Source: ARM



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You kno what this announcement means
By phatboye on 11/2/2012 10:24:07 PM , Rating: 1
Win9 will probably keep that stupid Metro UI




RE: You kno what this announcement means
By inighthawki on 11/2/2012 11:28:03 PM , Rating: 5
So you somehow assumed that Microsoft was just going to drop the thing they've been adamantly pushing for the last 3 years? Wow you're dumb.

Just use the desktop and drop it. The "metro is dumb" argument is getting a bit old considering nothing forces you to use it.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By Reclaimer77 on 11/3/2012 5:19:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So you somehow assumed that Microsoft was just going to drop the thing they've been adamantly pushing for the last 3 years? Wow you're dumb.


And they can keep pushing it where it belongs: mobile devices.

Yes hopefully the complete flop of Windows 8 on the PC market will cause them to re-think their approach. One can always hope.

And it's a fact, Windows 8 is flopping hardcore on the PC side of things. At this rate it wont even sniff Windows 7 adoption. And the Enterprise side of things? Forget about it, they aren't touching 8 with a 10 foot pole.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By haukionkannel on 11/3/2012 6:37:13 PM , Rating: 2
It does not matter if it will flop in desktop! if MS sells enough it to mobile versions, the win9 and win10 will definitely have Metro UI. They sell so much more OS lisenses by that way.
MS don't have to sell single desktop computer with win8 and it still can be them more profitable than win7 ever was or will be. The economy is funny thing!
Enterprize will move to Metro in 2018 or 2019 a year or two before the support ends to win7. Just like they did with winXP! Actually it can happen much quiker this time, because the programs that run in win7, will allso run same way in win8, win9, win10... After that it will be harder to say, so they are not in situation where they have to change all their important programs when changing their OS!
Win9 or win10 are very like candidates for corporates to move on, because by then there will be a lot of workers that are used to Metro UI by using their mobile devices. At this moment, I don't think that there is any reason for corporates to move on to win8. It is too early to them, but in 2-3 years the situation is different. But corporations and Enterprise market are not in harry, they never are.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By Jeffk464 on 11/3/2012 7:55:40 PM , Rating: 3
Windows 8 is no reason not to buy a new PC there are plenty of 3rd party apps that disable metro and add a start bar. Windows is always successful because of new PC sales. I don't get the paranoia around win8, I've played with it for a few days now.


By Motoman on 11/4/2012 11:18:43 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
there are plenty of 3rd party apps that disable metro and add a start bar.


...what, so now it's our job to QA Windows and fix it's massive defects that the publisher sends it out with? This isn't Apple we're talking about. No reality distortion field to make us think that's an OK way to do business.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By inighthawki on 11/3/2012 7:31:01 PM , Rating: 4
I believe Windows 8 is "flopping" on desktop primarily as a result of negative press from misinformed people spreading rumors and over-exaggerating things they don't like. There are still a lot of people who seem to believe that Windows 8 is metro-only, and doesn't even have a desktop.

Not to mention some of the dumbest comments I've seen ever about people refusing to upgrade because of things like the extra click or two it takes to shut down the computer...just wow.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By tayb on 11/4/2012 9:03:42 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
There are still a lot of people who seem to believe that Windows 8 is metro-only, and doesn't even have a desktop.


This. There are numerous people on this very site who think the same things.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By Spuke on 11/4/2012 10:10:54 AM , Rating: 3
Except the people on this website represent a tiny fraction of Windows sales and our opinions won't make or break Win8. I have people asking me about Win8 and they are not concerned at all about Metro. The ONLY concern I've seen about Metro is from geeks.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By Pirks on 11/4/12, Rating: 0
By CashMoney23 on 11/4/2012 9:48:38 PM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 is not flopping...million copies sold in 8 days. Pick that apart how you will, but 8 million copies is still proving that there is interest.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57542489-75/micr...


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By retrospooty on 11/4/2012 4:59:45 PM , Rating: 2
"And it's a fact, Windows 8 is flopping hardcore on the PC side of things. At this rate it wont even sniff Windows 7 adoption. And the Enterprise side of things? Forget about it, they aren't touching 8 with a 10 foot pole."

On the enterprise side, I did touch it to evaluate it and it's possible effect on our end users. I decided the answer is a resounding "Hell no" and increased the pole size from 10 to 15 foot.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By CashMoney23 on 11/4/2012 10:13:37 PM , Rating: 3
On the enterprise side, there are plenty of things that can only be accomplished from a Windows 8 client side perspective. There are multiple security enhancements, access control, and client interaction changes.

Addressing issues with token size, increasing Kerberos authentication security, and granular control over access permissions are just a few big ones to name.

Oh, and most large organizations today have many home grown in house apps that can quickly and easily be made in to Windows 8 apps which can be easily distributed, and accessed by the user population. By all means, I understand the sharp but extremely short learning curve around the new OS, but there have been equal hurdles in the past.

Once that hurdle is passed, people will find that using the modern UI is just as simple as anything else, if not easier when organizations embrace it and build with/for it.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By retrospooty on 11/5/2012 7:16:19 AM , Rating: 2
"On the enterprise side, there are plenty of things that can only be accomplished from a Windows 8 client side perspective. There are multiple security enhancements, access control, and client interaction changes."

Agreed, but the gains are negated by the setup and training that would be involved. That and the fact that the existing solutions that each company has in use today is already... in use today. I don't see a compelling reason to swallow that bitter pill for any IT dept. Not going to happen, not in any significant #'s.

"Oh, and most large organizations today have many home grown in house apps that can quickly and easily be made in to Windows 8 apps "

All large organizations today have many home grown in house apps that currently in use and working as of today. To change takes time and investment and again, I don't see the payoff.

Adoption of this platform is going to be slow, as there just aren't any compelling reasons to make an upgrade move. It's all downside with very little to no upside.


By CashMoney23 on 11/5/2012 11:42:57 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed, but the gains are negated by the setup and training that would be involved. That and the fact that the existing solutions that each company has in use today is already... in use today. I don't see a compelling reason to swallow that bitter pill for any IT dept. Not going to happen, not in any significant #'s.

Sorry, there are no current Windows or 3rd party solutions (Pre 2012) for SID compression, Kerberos Armoring, and DAC. Come talk to me when you start having issues with token bloat...


By crispbp04 on 11/5/2012 8:35:22 AM , Rating: 3
I feel sorry for your company because your ignorance is preventing them from getting something they need. It's sad when dumbasses have control over business decisions.


By crispbp04 on 11/5/2012 8:33:15 AM , Rating: 2
You're so ignorant it pains me. Windows 8 will be a success and is already proving to be one. You and the hater bandwagon will eventually figure it out. We heard this when 95 launched about how stupid the start button was. We just learned to ignore dumb people.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By Luticus on 11/2/2012 11:37:15 PM , Rating: 2
of all my issues with windows 8, metro isn't one of them. Oddly I like windows 8 on a desktop and most of my issues are with the tablet version of the OS. I find myself missing "flicks", the windows 7 virtual keyboard, and other aero features that were removed in Microsoft attempt to placate stupid people who aren't smart enough to resize the elements of the interface of which all were adjustable. Metro is the least of my worries and I will spend the better part of next year in visual studio trying to restore the missing functionality so I can enjoy the best of both worlds. If I get too annoyed I might just drop back to 7 on my tablet for the time being.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By Samus on 11/3/2012 1:32:28 AM , Rating: 3
huh, funny, my complaints are the complete opposite. I think it's great in tablet form, which brings me to the problems with the desktop version. It is clearly designed around a touch interface. Using it on a laptop or desktop without a touch screen renders Metro somewhat useless. Yeah you still get live tiles but navigating them, the inability to swipe in from the corners, and a plethora of other technologies can't be taken advantage of.

I think this is why most people don't understand Metro, because they haven't experienced it the way it should be experienced, and the ONLY way it should be experienced.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By inighthawki on 11/3/2012 3:36:11 AM , Rating: 2
The biggest problem I have with those people though is, even if they don't fully understand or appreciate it from using a tablet, the only thing that has really changed in the desktop is the start menu, which has been replaced with a full screen version with all the same functionality. Yet these people complain nonstop about how Windows 8 was crippled... it has the same desktop as 7!


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By tayb on 11/4/2012 9:43:05 AM , Rating: 3
The desktop has seen huge improvements in performance and usability.

-Windows 8 is faster. It boots faster, wakes faster, and operates faster. Seriously. Go look at benchmarks. It's crazy.
-Hyper-V built in
-Anti-virus built in
-Huge enhancements to the task manager (no more msconfig to disable startup apps)
-File history. I backup but it's a useful feature
-Task bar is configurable and will now show up on multiple monitors (No more ultramon... $40)
-"Power Menu" in the bottom left (right click) saves me so much time and clicks
-Windows explorer ribbon
-Windows to go
-LARGE DISK SUPPORT
-Storage spaces (so incredibly useful)
-Picture passwords (I use it even on my desktop)
-PC reset/PC refresh.

I think MS made a mistake by removing the start menu and not allowing users to boot directly into the desktop. It doesn't bother me personally but it seems that a lot of people have a complete inability to cope with change. There is already a W8 bug that inserts a newly designed start menu (not start screen) on the desktop so I expect MS to release an update to address this "issue" in the coming months anyway.

For the time being the performance and usability improvements in Windows 8 more than make up for the minor annoyance of either using the start screen or installing Start8.


RE: You kno what this announcement means
By Spuke on 11/4/2012 10:19:12 AM , Rating: 2
I don't expect Microsoft to address the start screen "issue" as the only people complaining are geeks. Some of your egos are amazing. You represent a TINY fraction of Windows sales. If you hear regular people complaining, then they'll do something but until that happens, it will stay as is.

quote:
-PC reset/PC refresh.
Forgot about this one. Neat feature.


By inighthawki on 11/4/2012 1:05:02 PM , Rating: 2
I think what he meant was that Microsoft may release a fix to remove all traces of the start menu, not that they will address it by adding it back in. Much in the same way people found an option to skip the start screen in the betas and boot directly to desktop, and Microsoft then patched it to explicitly disallow doing so.


Domain controllers
By dgingerich on 11/2/2012 6:08:02 PM , Rating: 2
ARM would work great as a domain controller. Those don't need a whole lot of power, if they're done right. Imagine a small, low power (<25W) domain controller in each wiring closet covering ~50 users each with a slightly bigger (~100W, dual socket, quad core, 16GB of memory) "master" domain controller in the server room. All the little domain controllers reference back to the one in the server room. That setup could take the place of some big, >600W single domain controller setup and work on about half the power and a tenth the cost, and authentication would be faster because the domain controllers would be closer (physically and logically) to the users. That is also something that could be done with just 32-bit systems, if managed right. We could do this today, if the software were here.

Another thing that 32-bit ARM could do right now for the datacenter is a cheaper online KVM. Older systems that don't have an IPMI interface could have a module connected to the back at the USB and VGA ports that would connect to the network and allow virtual media and remote console functions. With the way ARM has been used in phones for cheap, it couldn't cost more than about $50 to build the module, and they wouldn't have to be much bigger than the KVM dongles we have today. All that's left is putting the software on it that would handle these functions. They could be sold for ~$300, make a ton of profit, and still cost half the competition. It would definitely be a money maker, if only someone would do it.




RE: Domain controllers
By Flunk on 11/2/2012 6:42:19 PM , Rating: 2
Arm processors are not socketed. You can get a tonne of them on even small boards. That's what Windows Server 2012 on ARM is all about. Don't expect to see them in systems designed for low-end uses (most will come in racks of nodes with each node sporting 28+ cores) for a while.


RE: Domain controllers
By CashMoney23 on 11/4/2012 9:58:37 PM , Rating: 2
First off, there are no "master" domain controllers. AD is a multi-master distributed database with no DC having more weight than another. The only exception to this are FSMO role onwers and that's just extra tasking (other than the PDCE) which is virtually non existent. Most organizations massively oversize their DCs as it is today. The biggest ability for cost savings with regards to AD today is virtualization and Hyper-V in 2012.

Lastly, DCs could not go back to 32-bit. The limited virtual memory spaces cannot handle current day auth, and other DC function.


RE: Domain controllers
By retrospooty on 11/5/2012 7:22:00 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly...


I love Windows 8
By cditty on 11/3/2012 11:27:11 PM , Rating: 2
I am an IT professional... While I don't plan to deploy this at the company due to the stability of my Windows 7 platform. I actually love the OS for my own consumption. I have a Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga and it is a great convertable tablet/laptop. For my desktop, I have a Microsoft Touch Mouse and it makes Windows 8 great to navigate. Windows 8 brings some serious desktop improvements to the party. It's a shame no one speaks of those.




RE: I love Windows 8
By Spuke on 11/4/2012 10:23:32 AM , Rating: 2
For a group of people who's hobby and livelihood is about change, we as a group sure hate it the most. I don't have a problem with change, it's just how it is. But every few years the geeks get all in an uproar over the new Windows OS. It happens over and over and over again. It's REALLY funny how predictable this is. In a couple of years, most everyone here will be running Win8 and liking it and the hate will start over again with Win9. Can't make this up. LOL!


RE: I love Windows 8
By retrospooty on 11/5/2012 7:24:18 AM , Rating: 2
"For a group of people who's hobby and livelihood is about change, we as a group sure hate it the most. "

I dunno about that. As I recall in the past decade+ we were all using XP, hated Vista and loved 7... Pretty well right on the mark as far as that goes. 7 hit the sweet spot. The OS was probably more universally loved than any other ever... So what does MS do on the heals of 7's resounding acceptance? Can it.


RE: I love Windows 8
By Helbore on 11/5/2012 6:15:18 PM , Rating: 2
Xp was detested when it first came out. Fisher Price Windows and Tellytubbyland (in reference to the default wallpaper) were common insults thrown at it.

It wasn't until service pack 2 that it was considered any good. If it hadn't taken Longhorn so long to morph into Vista, XP would probably have gone down as a well-hated version of Windows.


By ET on 11/4/2012 4:10:41 AM , Rating: 2
Regardless, I think that Microsoft should make Windows RT open, a "real Windows". That should make it a lot more successful.




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