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Print 146 comment(s) - last by leexgx.. on Oct 13 at 10:30 PM

Should Apple foot the bill?

To say that Apple has hit a few bumps in the road with the launch of iOS 6 and the iPhone 5 is putting it lightly. Despite selling 5 million iPhone 5s during the first weekend, there have been numerous complaints about the device ranging from the easily scratched aluminum body to poor battery life to a camera that is subject to "purple haze".
 
On the iOS 6 front, the biggest debacle has been with Apple's decision to use its own homegrown Maps application instead of Google Maps. The fallout from that decision was so disastrous that Apple CEO Tim Cook apologized to customers and directed them to use competing products while Apple got its act together.
 
Now, there is even more fallout brewing from another iOS 6 calamity. IPhone 5 users around the world (including Verizon Wireless users here in the United States) have experienced extremely high cellular data usage even when connected to a Wi-Fi hotspot. In other words, even though users were properly connected to a Wi-Fi network (be it at home or a public hotspot) iOS 6 disregarded this and allowed the devices to continue pulling cellular data instead.

 
As a result, Apple released a carrier setting update for Verizon Wireless iPhone 5 users to fix the problem. Verizon is footing the bill in this case.
 
However, the damage has already been done for some Australian customers that have blown through their monthly data allotments through no fault of their own. According to ZDNET, a Telstra customer blew through 5GB of data in just one week resulting in an A$1300 ($1,330) bill. A Vodafone customer is said to have used 20GB which was good for an A$6000 ($6,140) bill.
 
There is no word on when these customers will get a carrier setting update to fix the problem or if Telstra and Vodafone will eventually waive the overage charges for its customers. For Telstra's part, it's only stating that it’s aware of the problem and that it is investigating the matter.
 
But the problem is essentially Apple's fault and customers who thought that they were doing the right thing by connecting to a Wi-Fi hotspot are the ones that end up paying in the end.
 
One Neowin user, nesl247, put it this way, "The providers shouldn't have to waive any of the data charges. What should be done is to send a giant bill to Apple. Their bug, their mess, their pocket."

Sources: Neowin, ZDNET, DSL Reports



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This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Yup
By Motoman on 10/4/2012 11:51:25 AM , Rating: 5
I would have to agree with the Neowin poster.

Make Apple literally pay for at least one of their characteristic catastrophic failures.

On the other hand, when will people learn that it's a horrifically bad idea to buy an Apple device? How many ridiculous defects does Apple have to produce over how many years and how many products to counteract the brainwashing anyway?




RE: Yup
By joedon3 on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Yup
By Motoman on 10/4/2012 11:56:43 AM , Rating: 5
Why is is always someone else's job to QA Apple products?


RE: Yup
By SublimeSimplicity on 10/4/2012 12:26:10 PM , Rating: 5
In Apple's defense, it did "just work", data overage charges be damned.


RE: Yup
By marvdmartian on 10/4/2012 3:16:12 PM , Rating: 1
Maybe Apple should change it to, "It just works.....kinda.....sometimes!"??


RE: Yup
By Mitch101 on 10/4/2012 5:29:23 PM , Rating: 3
Dont you mean:
<font color="purple">"It just works.....kinda.....sometimes!"??</font>
:)


RE: Yup
By jahinoz on 10/10/2012 12:22:58 AM , Rating: 2
Apples products always "just work". Just never the way you want or expect them to.


RE: Yup
By KPOM1 on 10/4/2012 12:51:14 PM , Rating: 3
I believe the carriers approve the settings since that's how they control access to various features (e.g. it's how AT&T blocks FaceTime and Personal HotSpot to those on unlimited data plans). The issue doesn't seem to be universal. I believe the issue was that the phones were set to default to the fastest data connection, which often turned out to be LTE.

In any case, Verizon said they'd refund overage charges so other carriers ought to, as well.


RE: Yup
By PrinceGaz on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Yup
By blue_urban_sky on 10/4/2012 6:23:20 PM , Rating: 2
I really want to think your taking the piss... Its hard to tell sometimes when people talk about apple.


RE: Yup
By Motoman on 10/5/2012 9:40:54 AM , Rating: 2
As a rule, Poe's Law must always be observed when the topic at hand is Apple. That level of stupidity is often difficult, if not impossible, to differentiate from sarcasm.


RE: Yup
By Swamp on 10/5/2012 6:30:46 PM , Rating: 2
lol user error? I am thinking what your saying is not even close to being true. Its a problem with ios. Stop making excuses because its apple. With my S3 when I turn my wifi on it works. Doesnt pull data from 3/4g.


RE: Yup
By JPForums on 10/5/2012 8:17:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
In any case, Verizon said they'd refund overage charges so other carriers ought to, as well.
While I don't necessarily think Verizon should be solely liable for the expense, the fact that Verizon is so quick to forgive such (potentially massive) bills makes a clear suggestion: It doesn't cost Verizon (or any of their competitors<cough>AT&T</cough>) nearly as much as they claim to run their networks. They haven't been shy about negative publicity in the past, so I can't really see avoiding it as a valid concern.
quote:
What should be done is to send a giant bill to Apple.
This would be an easy way to avoid negative publicity and get them their money. However, you don't honestly think Apple will take the blame for this do you? Guilty or not, Apple can't afford the public image of screwing up so badly that their customer (Verizon) charged them for their own phone. In the worse case, you can be sure Apple will charge it right back to them in the price of new products, dropping or reducing deals, etc. The only thing Verizon would accomplish in the long run is pissing off a large provider of their phones.


RE: Yup
By Kepler on 10/13/2012 12:03:50 PM , Rating: 2
Verizon hates selling iPhones as it is. They don't make money off them.

Verizon is providing the good customer service to the end user, when it was Apple's problem. They should bill Apple for these overages.


RE: Yup
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 10/4/2012 11:57:45 AM , Rating: 5
Seems like a Wi-Fi handoff issue would be Apple's problem.


RE: Yup
By leexgx on 10/13/2012 10:30:06 PM , Rating: 2
from what i have seen IOS allows Mobile data and Wifi to be active at the same time, i guess its there to keep apps working they pick the best connection (that's an bad idea really) but that's not good for the user if the user sees wifi mobile Data should be Off or at least give apps an short time to move over to Wifi, that's how Android does it, but it does result in terminated connections when it switches to wifi or back to Mobile data (wish App makers would make there apps Retry the connection when its disconnected but have an 5-10 second delay)

Example of this is BBC in the UK have an App on this iPhone (sure it was an iPhone) that uses Mobile data And Wifi at the same time to get More upload bandwidth so they can stream Video at an good bit rate (normally end up been close to 3mb/s upload speed with ADSL + mobile data as 2mb ish will come from mobile and 0.9 will come from wifi, unless its virgin cable then it can be 1mb-5mb upload on wifi)

yar got it > wifi+ mobile data at the same time, Live TV streaming BBC news streaming (they did need to use an second phone as the Live stream was Only one way the link below emplanes it and there is an link in this link that points to other stuff as well)
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/09/an-iphone-a-pawn-...


RE: Yup
By StevoLincolnite on 10/4/2012 12:13:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think the Carriers should foot the bill. Did they not test the device before they sold it?


Telstra is pretty good in this regard and chances are they will waive the fee.

I remember years ago when I was with Telstra I opted for a landline internet connection that was capped and would be reduced to dial-up speeds once I hit my monthly download limit.
Unfortunately, they put me on a plan where it was 10 cents per megabyte if I went over my usage.
Was a bit of a shock to get a $40,000 bill at the end of the month... But they ended up waiving it anyway.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/2012 12:30:28 PM , Rating: 1
Verizon refunded customers that were affected several days ago, and obviously a patch was already issued. Hopefully all carriers give refunds. I myself show totally normal usage. The only reason I'm all over it is because I'm seeing how much I use with streaming over LTE, and nothing has appeared out of the ordinary. I expect its the case for almost all users.

This story is almost a week old, why is it just here now? Does DT get most of their stories from NeoGAF threads?


RE: Yup
By mstrmac on 10/7/2012 12:54:25 AM , Rating: 2
DT ABA people with pissy fits hang out here. Anything But Apple


RE: Yup
By GotThumbs on 10/4/2012 1:35:49 PM , Rating: 1
Apple is the designer and is solely at fault.

Don't be so quick to show your supreme level of ignorance.

Talk about being a true TWIT. Just drink the Cool-Aid now please.


RE: Yup
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/4/2012 11:57:18 AM , Rating: 5
It will take another decade or so before Apple's problems begin to catch up with them. Until then they can continue to ride the cloud they are on. Sony was a massive screwup for upwards of 10 years before the market started moving away from them. To this day there are still plenty of SSony die hards even though their products haven't been all that great since the early 90's.

Give it time, the market may be fickle but brands take a while to lose momentum.


RE: Yup
By semiconshawn on 10/4/2012 6:25:09 PM , Rating: 4
Thats because Sony decided to make EVERYTHING and lost focus. Flooding the market with cheap crap with the sony logo on it in every catagory and ruining the brand. The market moved away because Sony was no longer a quality brand but still had the quality price. Sony still makes some good stuff you just cant get it at best buy on the cheap. You want to see it happen again? Watch samsung another jack of all trades master of none.


RE: Yup
By someguy123 on 10/4/2012 9:19:45 PM , Rating: 2
Sony has always produced tons of different for years. In the 90s they were essentially Apple in relevance while producing a variety of products. I don't see how you could ignore their cameras, walkmans, televisions, PCs, laptops, cd players, DVD players, portable DVD players, game console etc.

http://www.sony.net/Fun/design/history/1980.html


RE: Yup
By Argon18 on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Yup
By Motoman on 10/4/2012 12:07:32 PM , Rating: 5
MS software doesn't blow up in your pocket and set you on fire.

MS software doesn't cause your phone to not be able to make phone calls.

MS software doesn't make the camera on your phone make everything look like Smurfs.

MS software doesn't cause you to rack up thousands of dollars in data fees because your phone didn't correctly switch from cellular to wifi.

So on and so forth, ad infinitum. Software always has bugs. MS's track record of acknowledging and fixing them is infinitely better than Apple's. I would no more suggest suing Apple for a software bug than I would MS. But MS doesn't make the world's most expensive, and most defective, consumer electronics devices. Apple does.

You're comparing Apples to oranges this time. And if you think I'm some kind of MS fan, go and look at my Win8 posts among other things.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Yup
By Denigrate on 10/4/2012 12:13:40 PM , Rating: 5
One problem, you can get 3-4 Xbox 360's for the cost of one iPhone.


RE: Yup
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/4/2012 12:13:57 PM , Rating: 3
XBox 360 and iPhone's have the same rough price, as the XBox 360 is a more mature product it's price has fallen where as the iPhone's has remained quite high. Attempting to claim that the XBox 360 is the worlds most expensive/defective consumer electronic device is a stretch. I'd actually argue Sony holds that title for some very large screwups back in the late 90's and early 2000's.

I would also note that Microsoft took a billion dollar hit to warranty all of the first generation 360's that had the RROD, a problem which has largely worked its way out of the ecosystem over time. Thus far Apple hasn't made the same commitment to customers with defects. Although you can give Apple some credit for the Free bumper for the iPhone 4 antenna fiasco.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/12, Rating: 0
RE: Yup
By Camikazi on 10/4/2012 12:48:12 PM , Rating: 3
I'm on my first 360, have had it for about 4 years and it is being used most everyday and no problems, anecdotal evidence means nothing :)


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/12, Rating: 0
RE: Yup
By Trisped on 10/5/2012 3:00:46 AM , Rating: 2
I find cheep gadgets have a 75% failure rate within 90 days and a 90% failure rate within a year. Most are also engineered(they had to spend money for this "feature") to fail withing 1-2 years so you will come back and buy another. The difference is I payed $400 for my XBox360 which I had and used for 3 years before RROD took it out where as the cheep gadgets I payed <$10 for so I could use it once.

I definitely got 40x the usage, fun, and sense of accomplishment from the XBox360 then any one of the gadgets, but I am still pissed that by XBox360 died just 2 months out of warranty while the gadget is a distant memory.


RE: Yup
By flubaluba on 10/4/2012 5:52:57 PM , Rating: 2
Also had my xbox 360 since it was released , with no problems and very heavy use.In fact it has gotten better with way more features than it had when I first purchased it, whereas with apple you have to buy a new device every year to get new features.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Yup
By Reclaimer77 on 10/4/2012 6:22:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Comparing the XBox to any smartphone also is weird given that it is a static platform that hasn't changed at all since 2005.


Since you were the one that brought the Xbox into this topic, why then claim it's "weird". You went there, you started this with the lame attempt to defend Apple with gaming console issues that took place almost a decade ago.

quote:
As far as product support goes, compared to other smartphone vendors Apple is in the lead


Yup signal issues, "you're holding it wrong". Horrible color artifacts on the "most powerful" camera in a phone, and "that's just normal".

Great support!


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Yup
By Reclaimer77 on 10/4/2012 7:28:32 PM , Rating: 2
The defective 360's haven't been a "mainstream" device since 2005. Wtf? It's so non-relevant to this discussion only an idiot would bring it up in the first place.

I'm so tired of your horrible and stupid arguments. Go suck Steve Jobs dead cock a bit more, TonyYourPoints.

quote:
As for signal issues, I went caseless with an iPhone 4 for over two years and never had "grip of death problems". I took a picture of the sky with my iPhone 5 to test it out and I had no purple artifacts. I took another one just now and the sun was blown out and white.


This is called "myopic" and counts for nothing. People ARE having issues. And given your obvious bias, we cannot even count on you to have not just made this stuff up.

quote:
All of these things that people here harp on has never been a problem for me.


Well by that logic your Xbox argument is irrelevant, because mine never had the RROD!! So hey, it's "not a problem" right?

quote:
The iPhone 5 is currently the most powerful smartphone on the market while also being one of the smallest, and overall it works great.


lol why are you advertising in the middle of a conversation? Do you get paid for this cheesy bs?


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/5/2012 1:00:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The defective 360's haven't been a "mainstream" device since 2005.


360 failure rates didn't drop until 2010. This year they finally reached the failure rates of the PS3.

quote:
It's so non-relevant to this discussion only an idiot would bring it up in the first place.


No, it is completely relevant. Motoman claimed that Apple sold the most defective consumer electronics devices, something that is complete nonsense given that hundreds of millions of Apple products are sold, people use them all day every day with no issues, and defect rates are in the single digit percentages.

Only an idiot would miss the point.

quote:
This is called "myopic" and counts for nothing. People ARE having issues. And given your obvious bias, we cannot even count on you to have not just made this stuff up.


People have had issues, certainly, but nothing in massive numbers. Based on the amount of energy you and some others here put in you'd think that every single iPhone was a purple picture taking grenade that gets no reception if you hold it. Total nonsense.

quote:
lol why are you advertising in the middle of a conversation? Do you get paid for this cheesy bs?


I'm not advertising, I'm stating objective facts. You have a problem, take it up with Anandtech.

Why are you so mad all the time?


RE: Yup
By Samus on 10/6/2012 4:43:30 AM , Rating: 1
My XBOX 360 worked awesome for many years until it got banned!


RE: Yup
By StevoLincolnite on 10/4/2012 12:34:45 PM , Rating: 2
I actually had a launch model Xbox 360 that RROD on me.

Microsoft were really good about the warranty in my opinion, they even sent me a box out to package it.

Currently got the Halo 4 Limited Edition console on pre-order. :)

As for Sony... The PS1 had a fault where you had to tilt the console so it could read the discs, the PS3 had a fault with drives in some revisions... The PS3 has the yellow light issue.
You also can't go past the exploding Sony battery fiasco either.

With that said and done however.. ALL things man-made is prone to fail eventually, nothing mechanical or electrical can last forever.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/2012 5:42:59 PM , Rating: 1
My launch 360 RROD died as did its replacements. They were good about ease of replacement but swapping defective hardware with defective refurbished hardware was not a good move. I suspect it is one reason why their defect rate was so high. It was somewhere close to 60% in 2009, which is insane.

You are correct that all hardware is prone to failure. We are talking about degrees of failure though, and for Motoman to say that Apple ships the most defective hardware is asinine (standard) given that their defect and return rates are nothing close to what Microsoft and Sony have had in the past.


RE: Yup
By theapparition on 10/5/2012 9:51:57 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
My launch 360 RROD died as did its replacements .

Hmmm. Replacements? Plural? There's an old saying. You don't have to have a good memory if you tell the truth.

As you've stated numerous times in this discussion and previously, only one replacement also RROD. Your third was the slim which is still going strong (your words). Minor slip, maybe. Or maybe a slight embellishment. But lets try to be strait.

quote:
It was somewhere close to 60% in 2009, which is insane.

There were never any official figures, so throwing out numbers which may or may not be accurate is not a good way to prove a point.

Now, I'm not going to defend Microsoft for their XBox fiasco. FWIW, I have 3 Xbox systems in the house now. Two are older models and one the slim. All have been running fine with no issues. Yes, anecdotal, but I'll get back to that later. Clearly it was a serious design problem. I don't excuse MS for that, but they've by and large acknowledged the problem and then stepped up to fix it by providing the warranty for RROD errors.

quote:
We are talking about degrees of failure though, and for Motoman to say that Apple ships the most defective hardware is asinine (standard) given that their defect and return rates are nothing close to what Microsoft and Sony have had in the past.

But here's possibly the rub that Motoman and others have issue with. No doubt Sony and MS have defective hardware. MS with it's Xbox 360 (everything else seems to be pretty good though) and Sony with practically everything, lol.

But Apple doesn't acknowledge the problem with their hardware, hence the lower recall rate.
Antenna problem. Your holding it wrong.
Chipped paint. That's typical.
Yellow screens. Give it time, just the process.
Purple haze. Your pointing it wrong.

While none of the problems are at the MS severity level, they are real and are legitimate issues that Apple ignored. Your anecdotal evidence that just because you can't reproduce those issues doesn't make them less real than the numerous reports of Xbox failures while my consoles work fine. There is an issue with Apple's quality.

To be fair, it's less about Apple and more about Foxconn. Chinese goods are crap. But Apple needs to step up to be the premium brand they claim to be and take responsibility.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/5/2012 1:17:29 PM , Rating: 2
It was a slip, my bad. Two 360s died. I didn't send the second one in and got a slim when it came out. I ate the cost of the initial 360 but I didn't care at that point.

I can say for myself that I haven't had any issues with grips of death, purple photos, or iPhones going off like hand grenades (haha). Hundreds of millions of iOS devices are used every day and I reckon that most people also don't have those issues. If they were on the scale of the RROD then we wouldn't just know about it, we'd feel it in day to day use. Fact of the matter is that it isn't a problem for most, stuff just works and its no big deal.

quote:
Antenna problem. Your holding it wrong.


Every phone has (or had) death grip issues to varying degrees. As phones get larger it is much harder to do. Apple said every phone at the time had attenuation problems. Theirs were about as bad as everyone else's but they wanted to be better so they gave out cases. I used a bumper for two months and then stopped using it. I had no problems either way.

It was blown out of proportion IMHO, it had no effect on me and many other people.

quote:
Chipped paint. That's typical.


Going with flatter aluminum may have been a mistake. It will scuff or mark up over time no matter what.

quote:
Yellow screens. Give it time, just the process.


I had a yellow screen on my iPhone 4 that went away after two days. Whatever adhesive they used was curing and they were right.

quote:
Purple haze. Your pointing it wrong.


Don't have that issue, don't have anything to say about it.

quote:
While none of the problems are at the MS severity level, they are real and are legitimate issues that Apple ignored. Your anecdotal evidence that just because you can't reproduce those issues doesn't make them less real than the numerous reports of Xbox failures while my consoles work fine. There is an issue with Apple's quality.


If they do anything right it is take care of customers. The most extreme example was in 2010. My friend with a 2007 MBP suddenly developed severe issues. After two trips to the Genius Bar for motherboard replacements, they just gave him a brand new 2010 MBP. New internals, new chassis, huge upgrade all the way around for free. Another friend dropped his iPhone in water, they swapped it out no problem. That's good customer service, I really don't think they ignore them.

This really does come down to anecdotal evidence at the end. Obviously not everyone is going to have the same problems as everyone else. Based on the fact that so many iOS devices get used every day and work great, I'm going to lean on the side of certain issues being blown out of proportion by angry fans.


RE: Yup
By NellyFromMA on 10/4/2012 4:17:03 PM , Rating: 2
Hmm your cost analysis is jarring. The xbox 360 costs next to noting. The iPhone retails for at least double.

Try again.


RE: Yup
By Reclaimer77 on 10/4/2012 6:14:09 PM , Rating: 2
lol desperate misdirection. Do anything, say anything, to take the focus off Apple.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/12, Rating: 0
RE: Yup
By Reclaimer77 on 10/4/2012 7:21:49 PM , Rating: 2
Way to go Captain Google!

That's a huge misdirection. "Android" runs on everything from cheap flip phones to halo smartphones. Since the article relies on blanket statistics with no breakdowns of models, trim levels, manufacturers etc etc, there's really not enough information to provide the whole picture. It's just another poorly written blog post that's fodder for fanbois.

"Android" mobile devices are far more diverse with far more varying price points than it's competition. It just makes sense that they have a higher "failure rate" than the others. Can we say duh?

quote:
Defect and return rates aren't even close, single digits versus high double digits.


The new iPhone hasn't even been out long enough to HAVE any reported "rates" in the first place.

But I'm sorry that facts and common sense are derailing yet another lame attempt by you to threadjack.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/5/2012 1:24:44 PM , Rating: 2
Ah yes, Phandroid writing an article geared towards Apple fans, your logic is bulletproof.

quote:
The new iPhone hasn't even been out long enough to HAVE any reported "rates" in the first place.


And yet it covers rates for the last five years. Are you really hoping that the iPhone 5 will be so defective that rates will go from the single digits up to the double digits?

You are so mad and so desperate.


RE: Yup
By ven1ger on 10/11/2012 7:10:38 PM , Rating: 2
Do you make up your own facts?

From what I read, the report which was last year by the way, only covers 12 months, not the last 5 years.

I wouldn't be surprised there may be a new report that the support numbers have probably changed due to the maturing of the Android market and much better devices being available.


RE: Yup
By ven1ger on 10/11/2012 7:20:02 PM , Rating: 2
A little reading comprehension problem?

From what I read, the report which was last year by the way, only covers 12 months, not the last 5 years.

I wouldn't be surprised there may be a new report that the support numbers have probably changed due to the maturing of the Android market and much better devices being available.


RE: Yup
By kingmotley on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Yup
By kingmotley on 10/4/2012 12:27:01 PM , Rating: 3
Lol, that should have read "I've owned 3 iPhones and none of them have blown up".

I just double checked my data usage, and AT&T tells me that I've used 291MB (29th day of my billing cycle) of my available 10,238,976MB (9.999TB). Not quite unlimited, but they charge me $0.00 for every 1KB over that. Close enough, lol.


RE: Yup
By Motoman on 10/4/2012 12:41:15 PM , Rating: 2
*ALL* of the phenomena that I listed are extremely well-documented, here on DT and all over the internet.

As usual, you are a Macolyte and as such are pretending that such documentation doesn't exist.

You lose. As always.

...but seriously, you need to pick better things to pretend not knowing about. The phone call problem with the previous gen iPhone that was, at that time, the biggest Apple flub ever? You never heard of that? Do you really expect anyone to even think about giving you any credit?

And as for:
quote:
An extreme exaggeration. Unless you are trying to take pictures of people standing on the edge of the sun. Then perhaps you are right. I've never noticed this problem, nor do I anticipate ever running into it.


That was disproven immediately in the thread where the news was first posted here on DT, by a DT staffer even. Two clicks of a mouse right here on this very website prove your statement to be moronic.

As for Motorola and/or Google - don't really care. I'm OK with my Android phone, but I am pissed about the fact that I can't uninstall the preinstalled bloatware without rooting my phone. So much for Android being "open." Nobody gets a free ride from me. Oh, and you probably missed all the times I raged at Google for abiding by Chinese requirements to censor the internet, an activity I labeled "evil."

...none of which has to do with Motorola, which come to think of it I don't think I have any opinion on. I haven't had a Motorola product in about 15 years. And can't say that I really pay much attention to them.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/2012 5:21:58 PM , Rating: 1
I took a picture of the sun, no purple haze. There are no widespread cases of iPhones blowing up. There are actually more documented cases of various Android phones and Dell laptops exploding, but please keep cherry picking.


RE: Yup
By jRaskell on 10/4/2012 5:41:42 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
but please keep cherry picking.


quote:
I took a picture of the sun, no purple haze.


That is the epitome of cherry picking.

Oh, I don't see a problem, so therefore nobody is seeing a problem.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/2012 5:48:06 PM , Rating: 2
Picking apart his cherry picking isn't cherry picking...

If you want to use the "anecdotal evidence" argument then fine, but I again see a lot of crying over non-issues.


RE: Yup
By retrospooty on 10/4/2012 6:52:08 PM , Rating: 2
Ya, another non-issue to cry about

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/03/fortune-500-co...

You know how whiney and irrational IT guys are.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/2012 7:14:49 PM , Rating: 2
An Exchange bug is certainly legit, I wouldn't say otherwise. Like I said, no company has a spotless track record. A lot of the things people here talk about though, much ado about nothing, especially since the most vocal people aren't even on the platform.


RE: Yup
By retrospooty on 10/4/2012 7:34:23 PM , Rating: 2
And then there is you, defending it like there is no tomorrow. Why?


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/5/2012 1:21:43 PM , Rating: 2
It is less about defending it than putting faux outrage from people who don't even use the platform (because they hate it for whatever silly reasons) into perspective.


RE: Yup
By Marmadoc on 10/5/2012 1:31:45 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you for that INVALUABLE service!

Before I go, however, I would like ask the same question I asked the your comrade in arms, Tony "faux outrage exposer extraordinaire" Swash: Are you SURE that you are not paid by Apple for this service?


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/5/2012 1:50:23 PM , Rating: 2
Please, I'm not a ideologue like Swash or macdevdude or whoever. They're the flip side of the same idiot coin that reclaimer and motoman are on. I build PCs, I also have Macs, I own every console, I use iOS devices, but my favorite tablet is actually my Kindle. I'm not locked in to a single product ecosystem, I think most big companies have good products at this point.

I just see lots of stupid crap posted. When Motoman makes objectively false statements regarding the reliability of Apple products, going so far as to say that exploding iPhones is a common occurance, I'm going to say something.


RE: Yup
By Marmadoc on 10/5/2012 2:37:59 PM , Rating: 2
Kindle rocks!

Anyway, my point is that you (and many others around (myself included)) enter this discussions to make a point. Period. As “exploding IPhones are a common occurance” is the kind of stupid crap that motivates you, the proposition “I’m doing this for any selfless reason other than my personal satisfaction” motivates me.

However, your response was sensible and therefore, demotivational. I´ll leave you to your quest with my best wishes and await the next call of duty for me. (http://xkcd.com/386/)


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/5/2012 2:55:00 PM , Rating: 2
I got my Kindle Paperwhite two days ago, it is AWESOME.

Yeah, this is my fourth Kindle and I upgrade them more frequently than any other gadget I've ever owned, but whatever, the new display is totally worth it. I can't wait until they get e-paper at LCD-like refresh rates, it'll be great.

Cheers!


RE: Yup
By nocturne_81 on 10/4/2012 7:36:54 PM , Rating: 3
You guys are completely losing the point... The original comment about exploding batteries was in regard to Sony, a la the X-Box360 vs PS3 failure rates. Entirely more out of context, as those exploding batteries were in Sony's LAPTOPS!

And just because you have an iP4(s) with IOS6, and don't get the purple glare.. or don't get the cellular data overages while on wifi.. doesn't mean these problems don't exist -- they exist exclusively on the iP5. Mapping problems, though.. everything iOS6. And still.. "you're holding it wrong..".

Get a clue.. educate yourselves.. all the info is right here, 365 days a year.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/5/2012 2:00:03 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The original comment about exploding batteries was in regard to Sony


Here was what Motoman said that I responded to: "MS software doesn't blow up in your pocket and set you on fire."

I don't see how your argument is relevant unless people carry PS3s in their pockets. He was clearly talking about iPhones exploding en masse, something he constantly repeats in hopes that it actually comes true.

Maybe his beloved AMD processors will finally be competitive with "evil" Intel CPUs if he wishes hard enough.

quote:
And just because you have an iP4(s) with IOS6, and don't get the purple glare.. or don't get the cellular data overages while on wifi.. doesn't mean these problems don't exist -- they exist exclusively on the iP5.


I am talking about my experience with the iPhone 5, not the iPhone 4/S. I've had the iPhone 5 for two weeks now, no purple glare, I checked when the story broke. Same with data overages, and I'd already been keeping a close eye on data usage since I'm evaluating if I need to upgrade my data plan now that I'm using LTE.


RE: Yup
By ven1ger on 10/11/2012 7:27:48 PM , Rating: 2
Not sure if the batteries were only in Sony's laptops. I think they were specifically Sony batteries, or whatever companies batteries if not Sony's. We had Dell laptops, and I had to check the batteries serial numbers to see if they were on the recall list. But this was years ago, and I forget who the manufacturer of the batteries were since luckily none of ours were on the list.


RE: Yup
By Fritzr on 10/5/2012 1:21:11 AM , Rating: 2
You may not have been able to reproduce the problem, but the testers at Apple, Inc. have been able to do so and have said so.

The problem as documented by testers who can reliably generate purple haze effects say you need an iPhone 5 with the new camera design it uses and ANY light source which is bright compared to the neighboring portions of the picture. It works best if the light source does not cause "blooming" which is the effect generated by an overloaded sensor.

DPReview site did in depth testing of the iPhone 5 camera and ruled out several causes. Speculation is that it is a result of the way the light path was designed for the new & improved iPhone camera rather than a sensor problem.

If you would like to see the problem, you can use a lamp with the shade removed for a bright light source with a background that appears dark. Arrange your picture so the light is right on the edge or just outside the picture. This is an arrangement that reliably generates purple haze according to multiple testers. Yes it is contrived, but the arrangement was arrived at by studying pictures taken by iPhones in ordinary use cases.

The problem is fixable. You just need to get a technician to install an iPhone 4S camera in your iPhone 5 :)


RE: Yup
By croc on 10/5/2012 2:58:57 AM , Rating: 2
I think that DPReview might have said that one possible cause for the issue could be the optical properties of the lens covering (sapphire glass, iirc).

Either way, it is not going to be an easy (or cheap) fix, I don't think. It is issues like this that separates the companies that give a sh1t from the ones that don't. When faced with a similar issue over the RROD'ing XBox 360, MS spent -what- a ballpark billion USD to make customers happy? Apple certainly has the cash, now let's see what their give-a-sh1t facyor is. (Kudos to Cap'n Crook, he did fall on his ego over the maps thing, but that didn't cost any real money, now did it?)


RE: Yup
By android sucks on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Yup
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/4/2012 3:21:54 PM , Rating: 3
You...are junk...


RE: Yup
By NellyFromMA on 10/4/2012 4:20:24 PM , Rating: 2
Indeed, androlids ARE terrible. Hey, what's an androlid?


RE: Yup
By km4c on 10/6/2012 7:42:44 AM , Rating: 1
There is a fix for that in the ICS update for the Atrix 4G.
#Motofail


RE: Yup
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/4/2012 12:08:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yet the brainwashed masses continue to throw money at Microsoft for its broken products, and its closed proprietary ecosystem.

Oh really? Can you suggest a viable alternative for businesses?


RE: Yup
By Motoman on 10/4/2012 12:42:43 PM , Rating: 2
YES BCUZ APPLE IS ALL MORE BETTER AND EVERYONE SHOULD USE IT AND LINUX TOO IT'S OPEN AND FREE AND EVERYTHING IS ON THE WEB AND CLOUD AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR OS IS AND MICROSOFT SUCKS AND YOUR STUPID!

/full retard


RE: Yup
By elleehswon on 10/4/2012 12:57:53 PM , Rating: 2
I run mint on my wife's laptop(i'm more of a rhel/fedora guy though you can't argue with the ui of mint, even if it's debian). I have it auto update every week. It has yet to get a virus. if she needs to play games, she can dual boot into windows 7(don't get me started on wine). everything else, linux. works like a champ and it's easier to use than windows 8 :)


RE: Yup
By Motoman on 10/4/2012 1:03:00 PM , Rating: 3
The problem is the need to boot into Windows to do *anything*. Whether games or enterprise applications.

I am in full support of the philosophy and design intent of Linux. I *wish* it had a lot more industry support. I *wish* it was a legitimate contender for the overall OS market.

But it isn't.


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/2012 6:33:16 PM , Rating: 2
WoW isn't a real game you noob


RE: Yup
By nocturne_81 on 10/4/2012 7:39:34 PM , Rating: 2
Amen..


RE: Yup
By Jeffk464 on 10/4/2012 11:58:29 PM , Rating: 2
For people like you who need windows. There are plenty of people who do pretty much everything through their browser, probably chrome. Lots of people just use their computer as an internet portal. For them the increased software base of windows isn't really important. I'm actually thinking of moving my parents from windows machines to chrome, since its more secure, simpler, automatically backs up user data, and requires no user system maintenance.


RE: Yup
By NellyFromMA on 10/4/2012 4:25:05 PM , Rating: 2
It always amazes me when a corporation as successful as Microsoft is nearly responsible for all technological advances inthe passed 15 years easily if for no other reason running the workstations and network infrastructure other tech corps operate off of and yet when they profit from this (primarily by othwer businesses' paying licensing fees, not generally consumers) everyones head seemingly explodes at the thought that they aren't fulfilling their inner feelign of entitlement to software.

Some software is free. Great. Some is not. If the paid-for software is being paid for, its probably because its GOOD and suits the job and as you mention, there is no truly viable alternative.

Just because it doesn't cost you to download it doesn't mean it didn't cost many people to create it int he first place. It's just a strange mentality that people get rabid about having to pay Microsoft. Very strange...


RE: Yup
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/4/2012 5:54:36 PM , Rating: 4
Most of the rabid anti-Microsoft crowd have never had to maintain a network userbase at a major company with thousands of users. The ones that do generally accept the simple truth that Microsoft is the only game in town for managing an maintaining a userbase counted in thousands.

Is Linux a decent product? Mint, Fedora, and to some extent Ubuntu are. Are they ready for corporations to roll it out to thousands of employees? Hell no. Linux is a niche product that lacks the centralized management capabilities found in a Windows Domain. If Linux ever wants to be taken seriously in the corporate market they will need to solve that problem.

Right now Red Hat is the only serious Linux corporation that is trying to make inroads as a legitimate Linux alternative to Windows. The problem is they are still largely relegated to servers, not workstations.


RE: Yup
By nocturne_81 on 10/4/2012 7:46:08 PM , Rating: 2
Amen.. Try to implement a *nix environment with a userbase past a few dozen, you will sooner find yourself spending all your time programming all the implementations that just are not available or going over everything 'by hand' via terminal, rather than sitting back and letting MS's enterprise level programming do most of the work for you..

Albeit... cost versus effort may end up equal in either case. I'd rather just use less effort..


RE: Yup
By TakinYourPoints on 10/4/2012 7:17:00 PM , Rating: 2
Like with most things, you get what you pay for. With MS you really do get an excellent back end.


RE: Yup
By xti on 10/4/2012 12:05:54 PM , Rating: 2
fully agree - but extreme LOL @ quoting a neowin poster in a DT article.

hope people dont get stuck with the bill.


RE: Yup
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 10/4/2012 12:10:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
but extreme LOL @ quoting a neowin poster in a DT article


Hey, we quote commenters from other sites... if it's relevant to the piece at hand. And since Neowin was the original source for this piece, it's quite appropriate.

We have no ill will towards those guys :)


RE: Yup
By NellyFromMA on 10/4/2012 12:52:01 PM , Rating: 2
It's pretty ridiculous that they WOULDN'T pay for the overages. I mean, its a bug by their system and it resulted in real costs for their consumers.

Honestly, it might be a great thing if Apple chooses not to as it would probably be the biggest disgrace and fumble the company has comitted and hence good for breaking Apple dominance.

Who knows if anyone will care even if they're stuck footing the bill, but my guess is there are many people who would be pissed enoguh to want to either return the phone and switch to Android or ride it out and never buy another Apple product again.


RE: Yup
By Motoman on 10/4/2012 1:00:36 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Honestly, it might be a great thing if Apple chooses not to as it would probably be the biggest disgrace and fumble the company has comitted and hence good for breaking Apple dominance.


History has shown that Macolytes are so fully drenched in their religion's kool-aid that *nothing* will break them out of their trances.

I'm reasonably sure that if the iPhone 6 gave you cancer, shot your dog, raped your wife and posted barnyard porn to your Facebook page, it would still sell a billion units.


RE: Yup
By GotThumbs on 10/4/2012 1:40:42 PM , Rating: 3
This is why Apple has been hoarding all that cash, to pay its IFollowers data bills.

Talk about a major screw up.

The sixth generation of one single phone model and they are still mucking it up.

It's truly laughable if you consider those who actually stood in line for this one.


RE: Yup
By Fritzr on 10/5/2012 1:08:20 AM , Rating: 2
I think you meant "iFollowers",

or were you just trying to avoid infringing the trademarked Apple "i<word>"?


RE: Yup
By shanomacadaemia on 10/5/2012 6:40:59 AM , Rating: 2
I think he may have been trying to implement an interface that describes the methods available to followers. Or I may have just given him too much credit.


RE: Yup
By jmerk on 10/4/2012 2:44:50 PM , Rating: 2
I don't see any company right now making devices that don't have zero day bugs in them. the rush to get things to market and keep stock prices high is more important to companies than the customer. I have been using the iphone for 4 years now and apple has always giving me great service but i have to say that this latest bug and the apple rep telling me that i am using the phone wrong has shaken me a little. How can i burn through 4gb of data while i am sleeping if it was location services data. It was my music which should have been downloaded from my home wifi network and not my cell plan.


RE: Yup
By NellyFromMA on 10/4/2012 4:15:20 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I mean the new iPhone is great if you don't really enjoy modern large screens, navigation, or taking pictures.

Haha just getting a jab in there, sorry.


RE: Yup
By semiconshawn on 10/4/2012 6:08:33 PM , Rating: 1
I know this is going to kill you but...I have an iphone 5 it takes fantastic pictures (several websites have declared it the best camera in any mainstream phone). It has a great screen (yes better than the gs3 if smaller), is compact and light, has every app, is lightening quick and isnt made out of flexiplastic. I cant take a purple picture even trying and the much maligned maps app has even been spot on so far. My data usage is normal and even if it wasnt its been fixed (verizon) and I wouldnt pay any way. Sorry but you are just a hater worried about what other people buy. If Im not happy with it Ill dump it in a minute. I upgrade phones at least once a year anyway. Buy what you want hater but dont speak of which you do not know.


RE: Yup
By Jeffk464 on 10/4/2012 11:49:11 PM , Rating: 2
I love my verizon LTE unlimited plan :). Seriously though a thousand bucks for 20 gigs.


not right..
By kattanna on 10/4/2012 11:56:07 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
a Telstra customer blew through 5GB of data in just one week resulting in an A$1300 ($1,330) bill. A Vodafone customer is said to have used 20GB which was good for an A$6000 ($6,140) bill


its simply not right that the carriers would even allow such overage charges to happen. After maybe a few hundreds of dollars, the data should be placed on hold until the customer calls in to acknowledge such charges and authorizes continued charges.




RE: not right..
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/4/2012 12:06:53 PM , Rating: 2
Oh really? Let's examine the situation.

Carriers are a company in the business of providing a service, which in turn they expect to earn a tidy profit from. While they do nickel and dime you for text messages (which are free for carriers by the way), minutes, and data, they still expect to earn more than the minimum monthly payment by their subscribers. Carriers absolutely want you to go over your monthly allotment because the price/service ratio scales up very quickly, increasing their profits. The carrier networks can handle quite a few people exceeding their "allotments" and paying more for it, if you complain, hey you signed the agreement.

From a customer standpoint it totally sucks because you have to keep a careful eye on your allotments and usage or else face some steep penalties. But what can you do otherwise? You did sign the agreement, you are liable for paying your bill on time, regardless of how much it is.

From a PR standpoint it would look good for carriers to slap Apple with the bill and say their subscribers and their networks shouldn't foot the cost of Apple violating their agreement with carriers to provide a device that works as advertised. Apple would do well to pay this as a PR move to customers that Apple remains committed to the iPhone 5, iOS6 and all loyal Apple customers.

Still, it would be far more likely to see customers foot the bill and then the carriers tell customers contact Apple directly for some sort of reimbursement. This shifts the effort to customers and not carriers, and Apple will end up paying less because most people either won't know how to file for reimbursement, or won't care enough to go through the paperwork.


RE: not right..
By nedsand on 10/4/2012 12:45:33 PM , Rating: 3
Your wrong on this. It's called good customer service. Just because all of the carriers are in bed together and can set their own price and leave us without much of a choice doesn't make it right. Heck my water company calls after my water bill hits over $300 and my bill is usually >$100. That's a friendly reminder after 300%. My phone bill is $130mo they wont call even if it hits $3000. F--- That and F--- Them!


RE: not right..
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/4/2012 5:58:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's called good customer service.

That means nothing anymore. Also, Right and Wrong are points of view and subject to opinion.

Nowhere is it written that companies need to look out for their customers. Can they? Yes. Should they? Yes. Will they? Only if they want to. AKA - It makes good business sense, which means it will maintain or improve their profits.


RE: not right..
By Fritzr on 10/5/2012 1:30:21 AM , Rating: 2
It has been a problem for many years. There are occasional news reports of users with $20,000-$50,000 SMS bills. Roaming and data are also perennial favorites with users who were unaware that their plan charged them for usage.

You can be sure that the ones that make it to the front page of news.yahoo.com or news.google.com are just the tip of the iceberg.

The carriers set up their systems to maximize billable usage. They do occasionally generate goodwill by making sure of news coverage when they waive the bill for some of those who get bitten by ignorance of their plan, but most users simply pay overages and get on with their lives much to the delight of the phone company accountants.


RE: not right..
By Xplorer4x4 on 10/4/2012 7:13:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Carriers are a company in the business of providing a service, which in turn they expect to earn a tidy profit from...Carriers absolutely want you to go over your monthly allotment because the price/service ratio scales up very quickly, increasing their profits. The carrier networks can handle quite a few people exceeding their "allotments" and paying more for it, if you complain, hey you signed the agreement.

The opening statement is some what reasonable. However, I agree with kattanna as well. It is one thing when a customer goes over by say 5GB or so, but the network monitoring software should have been programmed to notice a trend in one phone suddenly using extremely large amounts of data and flagged this for some department to investigate. Instead the let customers go on sucking up all the data they can and now instead of robbing the customer, the carriers, well VZW only so far, have to bite the bullet instead.


RE: not right..
By senecarr on 10/9/2012 3:37:20 PM , Rating: 2
Text messages are virtually free for carriers, not free. The deeper truth is that billing done for text messages tends to dwarf this cost.


RE: not right..
By wickyman on 10/4/2012 12:22:02 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, really the system should allow an "overage" to be no more than double your current dataplan and if you go higher than that you receive a text message informing you that your dataplan is cut off entirely unless you upgrade to an even higher tier or wait until the next month for your plan to reset.

But in this case, where a bug has lead to the issue, the problem is not resting on the customers at all - not one customer should be forced to pay the entirety of their bill. Only the portion of their bill that was in line with their previous bills (though likely most of them used more data in the transition from 3G to LTE). But both Apple AND the carriers were responsible for doing their OWN testing and verification internally before launching the software. If the carriers didn't do ANY testing at all, they can't turn around and say Apple has to foot the bill for the screw up.


RE: not right..
By kingmotley on 10/4/2012 12:30:20 PM , Rating: 2
I think AT&T would send me more than just a text if attempted to use more than double my 9.999TB data plan. I suspect they'd call me and suspend my account long before that even.


bailout!
By Argon18 on 10/4/2012 12:05:15 PM , Rating: 2
The way to solve this is via a federal government telecom bailout. Sure it's Apple's fault for deploying buggy code, but Uncle Sam and the taxpayers should foot the bill. Just like we did for Detroit, the Unions, and Wall St.




RE: bailout!
By SublimeSimplicity on 10/4/2012 12:14:04 PM , Rating: 2
These overage charges are too big to fail!


RE: bailout!
By R3T4rd on 10/4/2012 12:30:36 PM , Rating: 2
I agree! And the rich gets richer while the stupid gets stupid..er!


You're Using the Internet Wrong!
By Arsynic on 10/4/2012 12:31:27 PM , Rating: 2
It's not Apple's fault!

But what's the big deal? Obviously iDiots have more money than brains. What's a few extra dollars?




Fair warning
By cfaalm on 10/4/2012 5:05:24 PM , Rating: 2
My carrier sends me a text message when I approach the limit of data traffic. It says something like: "you have used 75% of your data bundle". I get a message again at 90% and at 100%. If the carriers mentioned above send out text messages like that, than the customer is accountable for exceeding the limits. Apple could simply hide behind that.




By flubaluba on 10/4/2012 5:49:26 PM , Rating: 2


Sadly the ifans will find excuses but surely they must be getting tired of explaining why there fantastic phone is having problems in almost every area.

Now I am not one to nit pick but all of the Samsung phones I have purchased have been fully functional they just worked, and yes I am stealing the Apple saying because it really does not belong to apple any more does it. Even my wife's Ascend G300 has less problems than the iphone and that is a $150 phone. Yes the camera might not be as good, oops actually it is, and the wifi might not be as good , oops actually it is , but the iphone has better maps ...ooops they don't. Seriously , seriously what is apple doing, do they not want to sell phones any more, because with all of these problems they are having and have had with previous models I think they are going to be laughed out of the market never mind out innovated.




By evo slevven on 10/4/2012 10:24:46 PM , Rating: 2
even though Apple products look like Sony products actually ;) But the one reason why this is kind of a big deal for me is that Apple touts it's sense of superiority in its products over Android and yet they manage to make huge screw-ups. They;ve used the "it's in Beta" to be excused of issues. Siri was in Beta when it was released and now we have that same thing being touted with Apple maps. It can also be argued that not having turn-by-turn was not worth loosing the functionality and features of Google maps. I still love how you can Google the archived pages for when Apple was rumored to have it's own map app in place and people said how it'd be far superior to anything Google released....

Additionally instead of vigorously resorting to legal attacks and trials maybe they should concentrate on better talents for their products instead. Of all the tech companies out there, I have the deepest respect for IBM; at least big blue is still successful as a business and yet they still continue to innovate in a manner that are really innovations that few would dispute.

Apple makes great products but the quality is down and diminishing. Frankly they seem to be imitating more and more of Android these days; remember when people joked how Android OEM's made their screens too big but suddenly Apple does it and people shut up about it?




wow
By cokbun on 10/4/2012 10:57:20 PM , Rating: 2
jeez!! a 6000$ phone bill will make YOU turn purple.




In other news . . .
By qwertynerd69 on 10/5/2012 11:57:20 AM , Rating: 2
iPhone 5 users stuck with massive bills after purchasing the iPhone5 . . .




By johnsmith9875 on 10/7/2012 8:39:42 PM , Rating: 2
Why does 20Gb of cell data cost $6000?




By spamreader1 on 10/8/2012 9:58:56 AM , Rating: 2
Has been for about 2 weeks now.




some would say the customers deserved it...
By jnemesh on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: some would say the customers deserved it...
By kingmotley on 10/4/2012 12:32:04 PM , Rating: 3
People that drive off a cliff because the GPS tells them to is just doing the rest of the world a favor.


By RedemptionAD on 10/4/2012 1:53:56 PM , Rating: 1
They were just following the trend.


Meanwhile in the real world…..
By Tony Swash on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 10/4/2012 2:05:51 PM , Rating: 2
What does any of this have to do with the story?


By Cheesew1z69 on 10/4/2012 2:15:04 PM , Rating: 3
As usual, nothing... I think he is one of those people who like to hear themselves talk.


By ritualm on 10/4/2012 4:06:43 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, I'd love to see Tony Swash permabanned from DailyTech.

His pro-Apple rhetoric borders on North Korea-level of indoctrinated insanity.


By Cheesew1z69 on 10/4/2012 2:11:19 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
iPhobes don't care about Apple consumers, they hate them and despise them
No, it's just iTools like you...not all Apple users.


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By StevoLincolnite on 10/4/2012 2:38:47 PM , Rating: 2
Because you like to ramble on so much Tony and I can't be bothered reading it all, I shall just leave this 73 page thread on Apple's iPhone 5's issues here...

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t...


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By Tony Swash on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/4/2012 3:25:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Man - get a fucking life before it's too late. Really :)
Pot....Kettle....


By symbiosys on 10/5/2012 12:15:38 AM , Rating: 1
I particularly liked this one about scratchinggate:

quote:
Q: I love my Black & Slate iPhone 5, but I've been seeing some scuffs, scratches and marks throughout the band around the phone along with many others. What should we all do? Any plans to fix this?

Phil Schiller: Any aluminum product may scratch or chip with use, exposing its natural silver color. That is normal.


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By Demoure on 10/4/2012 2:58:23 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Meanwhile in the real world…..

Are you on vacation or did you move here recently?


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/4/2012 3:01:30 PM , Rating: 3
That's in every post as if he lives in the real world...


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By Tony Swash on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/4/2012 3:20:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Guys - you are flogging a dead horse - nobody is listening
To you they aren't listening to your ridiculous bullshit...

quote:
I only come here out of curiosity
Right, that's why you are in every Apple and Android article each day. Curiosity. You are so full of shit it's not even funny anymore.

Meanwhile in the real world, these Apple problems are still problems.


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By BugblatterIII on 10/4/2012 4:01:17 PM , Rating: 2
So you're basically saying that Apple customers are so dumb they'll buy Apple products no matter what and will continue to do so no matter how crap they are?

I believe we may just have found some common ground!


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By Tony Swash on 10/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/4/2012 4:23:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You don't buy Apple products but feel compelled to post comments about them.
And you post on Android articles but don't use them, and you feel compelled to spew your bullshit...

Pot...Kettle..


By ritualm on 10/4/2012 5:48:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
blah blah blah

And you think people actually care what you think.

And you think people actually care what YOU think.

Not.

Your thoughts on everything are as worthy as those coming from the mouth of the average Republican self-proclaimed homophobe.


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By BugblatterIII on 10/4/2012 6:01:44 PM , Rating: 3
I don't despise Apple customers. I despair of the ones who'll buy Apple products no matter what, but that's also true of those who'll buy Samsung products or whatever no matter what. Apple is just the most extreme example of great marketing pulling the wool over the eyes of the gullible.

There are plenty of people who buy Apple products because they're genuinely the best fit for them, and I have no problem with them. I get concerned about people I know buying so deeply into the ecosystem with non-transferrable music, books, apps and movies but that's their problem to be honest, as long as they're under no illusions.

I'm keen to see Apple humiliated because of their arrogance. I'm also keen to see other companies humiliated for the same reason, again Apple is just the most extreme example. Well, except for Sony, but they're on the way out anyway. Apple's already been humiliated in the phone arena; it used to have a commanding lead over Android but now it's an also-ran. I'm sure you have plenty of stats to 'prove' otherwise but ultimately all that matters is that far more phones are sold running Android than are sold running iOS. I'm looking forward to their humiliation in the courts once their lapdog Koh isn't calling the shots any longer.

Not sure what post you were reading but I didn't do any of the things you said I did. But don't let reality stop you believing what you want to believe; that's what being a religious zealot is all about after all.

You think no-one cares what I think? The only reason your views get any attention is because they're such tripe people feel compelled to put you straight. You're a running joke here. But you get the attention you crave, so perhaps we're all helping you in some way to feel as though you have a meaningful life. I hope that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By Tony Swash on 10/5/12, Rating: -1
RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By Marmadoc on 10/5/2012 11:10:40 AM , Rating: 3
Tony, I like reading your comments for fun. If this is indeed Disneyland, you are the greatest attraction. Of course, other Apple lovers and the most Android fanatics are a show on their own, but I find you to be the big castle in the middle of the park.

As for your other comment about using Apple products for 30 years, that really shocked me. I had you for a 20ish young adult, a champion for Apple, defending each and every Apple product (even the $20-30 indefensible adapters that cost cents to produce). To know that you are at the very least 40 and still able to devote such a large amount of time to research, write, proof and disproof every little article is quite interesting.

But please, do carry on. Just, if you have the time, can you absolutely assure me that you are not being paid by Apple? I mean, is no problem if you are, because you do a really great job.


By simsony on 10/5/2012 3:23:11 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I come on Dailytech just to read Tony Swish's crap. I thought he was a 16 year old or something but it doesn't look like that anymore.

I mean on one breath Apple just works, but when something is pointed out that does not work, then it doesn't matter, because Apple is selling well. Apple can do no wrong and his answers are almost always deflective.

How is this and the Maps thing not a massive fail?

I do wonder if Tony is a DT mole, just to get the ratings up. With that many -1s, surely his posting rights would have been revoked :D


By rocky12345 on 10/5/2012 7:09:07 PM , Rating: 3
lol dude they make the most profit because they over price their built in china junk 300% to 500% above what it costs them to make & market it. It surely is not because they are selling the most units since Samsung is out selling them 3 to 1 for every device sold. Also when replying to a article it would be good if you actually said something that actually had something to do with the actual article that was posted & not to just post Apple propaganda & put links to sites that make no sense to what was posted by this site or others that have made comments about the articles. Yes I know I myself just went off topic but it was only to point out to you where you went wrong yet again mister swash.


By BugblatterIII on 10/5/2012 7:28:32 PM , Rating: 3
What has anything you just said got to do with the statement you quoted?

It seems that when you can't refute someone's argument you just spout the same old irrelevant marketing bull.


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By rocky12345 on 10/5/2012 6:47:26 PM , Rating: 2
Mean while back in a real world I have someone sitting in my shop at this very moment that just had his iphone 4s bricked because of the apple update. They are telling him that this could not of happened because their updater would not fail like that.Then they told him that he is welcome to go to a Apple store & buy another Apple phone at his own expense because they do not feel that they should have to pay for a new phone or pay to fix his. They told him if the phone is bricked it was his own fault & they will not fix the old phone or get him a new one. His phone is just over 1 year old so they have washed their hands of it. So I guess Apple is their to sell him a phone but when their updater screws up & bricks a phone they will not be responsible & own up to the fact that their software updater screwed him over. He stated to them that the phone worked fine before the update but now it does not. In the end he just decided to go & get a Samsung Galaxy S 3 & said screw Apple. So I guess Apple just lost another customer because of them being arrogant & not owning up to their mistake. But hey dude you keep sucking on the Apple koolaid.


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By rocky12345 on 10/5/2012 7:02:12 PM , Rating: 2
I just wanted to add that I am sure glad Apple does not make cars for a living because on my god we would be in trouble. I mean if they are having so many problems with a simple little device like a smartphone I shudder to think of what would go wrong if they were in the auto industry.


RE: Meanwhile in the real world…..
By km4c on 10/6/2012 8:18:23 AM , Rating: 2
Not defending Apple here but...
You really think a smartphone is a "simple little device"?
It is a telephone. It is a texting device. It is a GPS device.
It is an internet device. It is a music playback device. It is a movie playback device. It is a camera with flash. It is a video camera. It is a handheld computer that that has more computing power than all the computing systems that were used to send Apollo 11 to the moon.

If Apple was in the Auto industry we would have The iCar. It would be the only model that they offered. Apple would release a new model every year, however it would only change slightly year to year. The body would be machined out of a solid block of aluminium. It would only come in one color, brushed aliminium. It would be built out of parts made by other car manufactors with Apple making none of the parts themselves other than the CNC machined aluminium body. It would be completely built in China and would be considered an import car. And followers of the Apple religion would stand in line for days every year to trade in their 1 year old iCar for the newest very slightly improved model.
And they would not have taken a handout from the Government to survive since they would be the most profitable car Maker ever.


"We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk." -- Apple CEO Steve Jobs














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