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  (Source: ComputerWorld)
Windows 8 not at popular as Windows 7 so far

Microsoft has a lot riding on Windows 8 operating system. The software giant is hoping that Windows 8 will bring a slew of consumers upgrading from older computers and older versions of its operating system. Microsoft is also betting that Windows 8 will get a strong foothold in the tablet market as well
 
So far, users are currently five times less likely to be running Windows 8 as they were Windows 7 at the same point before its launch. The new statistics come from research firm Net Applications and indicate a lukewarm reception of the Windows 8 operating system by consumers.
 
Windows 7 was a follow-up to Windows Vista, which was one of the more maligned versions of Microsoft's operating system in recent years. Windows 7 lured many upgraders not only from Vista, but from the older XP operating system as well. Windows 8 doesn't have the luxury of following an unloved version of Windows like Windows 7.
 
The statistics offered by Net Applications only count computer users who installed preview versions of Windows 8 and preview versions of Windows 7. The statistics are believed to provide a clear indication of consumer interest in the operating system rather than a desire or need for new computer hardware.
 
In September, only 0.33% of all computers using Windows relied on Windows 8. That works out to 33 out of every 10,000 Windows machines using Windows 8. By the end of September 2009, with very similar time remaining before the launch of Windows 7, the operating system accounted for 1.64% of all Windows PCs working out to 164 out of every 10,000 units. 
 
Analysts are beginning to believe that Microsoft won't see the uptick in OS sales that it hoped for with Windows 8. Gartner recently advised clients that it predicts the operating system would top out at only 20 to 25% share in the corporate environment. 
 
Windows 8 went RTM in August and will launch this month.

Source: ComputerWorld



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Because it is terrible, IMO...
By jjlj on 10/2/2012 10:47:22 AM , Rating: 5
I tried using the RTM version on my htpc and it sucked compared to windows 7. With win 7 I can keep the resolution at 1920X1080 on my 52" lcd, adjust the DPI and font sizes and I'm able to read text from 11' away or so without hurting my eyes.

I could not do the same with the windows 8 tiles. The text font size was too small to read from the same distance even after doubling the size of the tiles. And the fact that the icon/tile for everything you install is always visible was just plain annoying.

The fact that WMC was missing was the nail in the coffin for me.




RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By kleinma on 10/2/12, Rating: -1
RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By damianrobertjones on 10/2/2012 10:55:52 AM , Rating: 3
Your personal opinion on WMC is NOT shared. Sorry.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By andrewaggb on 10/2/2012 12:26:49 PM , Rating: 2
I really liked WMC as well. We can't use cablecard in canada (afaik) so we're stuck with pvr's from our tv providers or recording analog cable..., which means I don't really have a use for WMC anymore. I'm using plex.

I also had problems with WMC not seeing all my content sometimes which was really annoying.

I think MS really dropped the ball on WMC support in windows 7 (could have been so much more) and then abandoned it for windows 8 (more or less). WMC was way ahead of it's time, just now appletv, googletv, netflix, etc is all finally becoming mainstream. Seems silly that MS abandons it now.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By Varun on 10/2/2012 1:57:22 PM , Rating: 2
You can also use a Hauppauge Colossus to capture HD TV in Canada. It's not ideal, but it's what I do.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By EnzoFX on 10/2/2012 1:59:06 PM , Rating: 1
MS dropping a push for WMC makes complete sense.

This from someone that used it heavily. However it is painfully obvious that it was always a niche product, and it's one that is shrinking quickly. With people dropping their cable/satellite subscriptions for online services, coupled with overall desktop use, with the rise of tablets/smarter phones, etc. The user of tuners with computers is dropping. It's a dying niche. I'd rather they get out of it so they can focus on things that matter, though they seem to be dropping the ball on those things as well... sigh.

I don't see Win8 doing too well, maybe in their low end stuff that's arm based and priced comparable to Android/iPad offerings. In the high end, I don't see it since Ultrabooks have always seemed a tough sell to me (overpriced).


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By EnzoFX on 10/2/2012 2:14:13 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and on the other end, people that do stick with their cable/satellite subscriptions, their dvr offerings have caught up significantly in terms of overall features, so they too are sticking more to what their providers give them.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By andrewaggb on 10/2/2012 2:33:18 PM , Rating: 3
But I think MS could have evolved the WMC concept, built it into tv's, got it into pvr's etc. Stuff like airplay, netflix, etc could all have been in WMC years ago and licensed etc. To me it's just another market MS dabbled in (like tablets) before it's time, only half committed to, and ultimately finds itself an insignificant player.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By EnzoFX on 10/2/2012 4:12:25 PM , Rating: 1
but it would still be a shrinking niche. Only now is that stuff solidly in TV's, and only android is making headways with certain tv manufacturers, because it's free probably (apple TV and set top boxes are a niche, apple always says it's their pet project). It's just a tough marriage, coming from a computing side, and trying to merge it into another companies' manufacturing side. That's probably the challenge, and that's probably why Win never had their own phone or tablet, etc.

Nevertheless I agree, it's a lack of commitment, though I wish this uphill battle would have significant results for those that are fighting it. I want serious headway made here by such players, but I do realize it's an uphill battle for them, that most don't have the stomach for. Think about TV's and set top boxes. 90% of people use the boxes their providers give them, and TV's are purchased every few years, and they're not very update friendly, they end up connecting them again, to whatever they happen to subscribe to, or maybe a console. The rise of the smarter console is also to blame here haha. They too can offer many of those services. So again, it's a dying niche. They should update it in a serious way for the Xbox maybe. Get the market that way, then offer their own set top boxes and spin it off into tv integration.


By NellyFromMA on 10/2/2012 3:07:15 PM , Rating: 2
http://betanews.com/2012/10/02/windows-8-is-not-ab...

Sorry to link to another news site, but perhaps DT would like to get on the ball with the concensus shared by anyone not trying to sensationalize tech and enflame its comment board usage?


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By jjlj on 10/2/2012 11:06:34 AM , Rating: 2
XBMC didn't work with tuner cards in win 8 yet, at least I couldn't get it to work. I couldn't watch antenna TV with win 8. I am fully aware of XBMC and use it.

I could have also said no WMC was the last straw. I too know it will be available at some point. It wasn't available in the RTM pro version I used.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By Mitch101 on 10/2/2012 12:01:05 PM , Rating: 3
The difference is WMC doesnt ship with Windows 8 you have to download it Microsoft was going to charge a fee for it since its rarely used but later decided to make it a free download.

How to add Media Center to Windows 8 Release Preview
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57445533-75/how-...

Im about to explore doing this as an HTPC option.

I use WMC with a Silicon Dust Dual HD tuner with a cheap antenna hiding in my attic. WMC is excellent at recording video and the guide I dont want to give that up.

With that I love XBMC you can add it as a menu option on your WMC menu
http://xbmcwmc.teknowebworks.com/

Be sure to add the additional ones at the bottom of that link

HULU Desktop Integration 2.1 - HULU Windows Media Center Integration
Boxee Integration 2.1 - Boxee Windows Media Center Integration
My Music At Home - Leave your MP3s at home and listen to them through a web browser

I plan on using an X-Box 360 controller with the USB wireless adapter and adding the gaming option under XBMC
http://lifehacker.com/5523672/turn-your-xbmc-media...

If your into WMC you know it recently lost support for items like CBS but Im hoping that someone will pick up the ball and make it a add on for XBMC for easy navigation but who knows we could see an x-box pluging as well.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By jjlj on 10/2/2012 12:25:36 PM , Rating: 2
I couldn't add WMC to the Win 8 Pro RTM. Not sure it you can now or not.

As a DVR and guide WMC works perfectly for watching OTA channels.

Have you tried the Free Cable plugin for XBMC? I never watched any of the CBS videos in WMC.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By Mitch101 on 10/2/2012 2:46:26 PM , Rating: 2
I haven't loaded the RTM yet I just got the hardware together for it but it seems that WMC will be available again for Win 8 on launch (Oct 26th). I recall hearing the same as you and yelling NOoooo but someone told me Microsoft changed their stance and its a download now. They were gonna charge $12.95 for it but decided to make it free.

Totally agree WMC as a DVR is great. Some of the TV networks made it easy to access content like Big Brother and a bunch of other shows in WMC but now you have to go to their websites for the streaming content.

No haven't tried the free cable plugin for XBMC Ive seen some very interesting things on it like torrent tv which might be interesting. I haven't used it much since the X-Box 1 days.

From what I understand there are No changes to it since Win 7 because its not popular. I really have no problem just running Windows 7 with WMC if needed especially since nothing changed in WMC with Windows 8.

What else I liked about WMC is it synced shows well with my Phone it recoded it to a format that was small and also that it works with the X-Box 360.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By kmmatney on 10/2/2012 3:53:13 PM , Rating: 1
It's not exactly free if you have to buy the Pro version of Win8 to get it.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By dark matter on 10/2/2012 11:27:20 AM , Rating: 2
Who cares what you think. Go view the stats, you're in a minority.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By kleinma on 10/2/2012 12:06:05 PM , Rating: 2
Im in the minority? MS statistics showed that something like 1% of windows users ever even opened WMC, and then it was said that something like 50% of that 1% never opened it twice. If it was popular and used by lots of people, it wouldn't have been yanked from the OS. It will be available from the app store for free to pro users at some point around RTM, mostly so people can't complain that a function from win7 upgrades was removed.

I used WMC for a long time as a HTPC solution, and it was horrible for me. I don't use a tuner card, I have a personal home collection of movies and shows (which WMC can't even ff/rw on) then I switches to XBMC and was pissed at myself for not using it sooner. There are dozens of plugins to get streaming content from the web, auto DB popultation of video/audio meta data from online databases, etc.. it just works in every way better than WMC. I can't speak to tuner card capabilities (since in the US most are crippled, and cablecard is just waiting to die) but everything else sucks about WMC


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By jjlj on 10/2/2012 12:26:57 PM , Rating: 2
I've heard about those statistics before and thought about it, but I think they may be flawed. How does MS know I use WMC? I didn't turn anonymous reporting and generally opt out of any kind of anonymous reporting for programs that crash. So the numbers may be a little skewed.

There are some pretty active discussions about WMC on various forum sites.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By p05esto on 10/2/2012 5:17:06 PM , Rating: 2
VERY good point. Most all power users turn off all reporting functions. MS has no clue what the power users do with their computers - none. I hope MS realizes that people who know turn off all tracking ans tats gathering.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By DFranch on 10/2/2012 9:45:44 PM , Rating: 2
If all you use it for is to stream movies, there are better options out there then Media Center. I used Sage TV for years, but when they sold out to Google, I switched to MCE. I have 4 clear QAM and 4 Cablecard tuners. I can record virtually any channel local or cable. You can't do that with XBMC since it doesn't support cablecard. I also use my Xbox as a media extender so I don't have to have a noisy computer sitting in my family room. Can XBMC do that? Now since XBMC is useless to me, that doesn't mean it sucks, it just means MCE is the better option for me just like XBMC is a better option for you.


By NellyFromMA on 10/2/2012 12:56:21 PM , Rating: 2
I mean, do we only care about what the majority of peopel think nowadays? C'mon seriously?

Here's a fact: the majority of people in the united stated, and in the world, are stupid, dependant, and often do not think for themselves or properly evaluate facts before making decisions.

So, telling someone 'who cares what yoou think because you're in the minority' is frankly akin to who cares if someone thought the world was round because the majority of people thought it was flat.

It's self defeating. I thought we liked technology, which implied a certain level of open mindedness. Wth.


By GreenEnvt on 10/2/2012 12:01:40 PM , Rating: 2
WMC is great.
Gives my family a single spot to watch Live TV from cable and OTA, plus movies stored on our file server.
All from a nice remote on the couch.

I'll take another look at XBMC, but last time I looked it was not as nice as WMC.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By zlandar on 10/2/2012 12:17:06 PM , Rating: 2
I like XBMC. I use it for all my MKV movies/videos. However XBMC can't do jack with a cablecard.

Inability to display cable (or even nonprotected OTA) programming through a tuner like HDhomerun/Ceton is a huge gaping hole IMO.


By jimbojimbo on 10/2/2012 4:25:55 PM , Rating: 2
You can get XBMC to play live TV from HDHomeRun now but it's clunky.
Why are people picking one or the other? I run XMBC normally but if I want to watch recorded shows I run WMC. I run it on my desktop which records shows for me.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By augiem on 10/2/2012 1:52:18 PM , Rating: 2
WMC rocks for OTA TV.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By chizow on 10/2/2012 2:41:00 PM , Rating: 2
WMC may rock for OTA, but its absolutely amazing with a CableCard. Too bad MS and the CableCos have fought so hard to keep it under wraps for so long. If CableCard went mainstream 5 years ago WMC would have much better traction.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By damianrobertjones on 10/2/2012 10:55:13 AM , Rating: 2
"tile for everything you install is always visible was just plain annoying." - right click the tile and you can then remove.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By jjlj on 10/2/2012 11:09:19 AM , Rating: 2
But then where do the shortcuts go? I only spent a day or 2 with windows 8 so I don't really know the answer to that.

The real problem for me was the font size on the tiles.


By damianrobertjones on 10/2/2012 11:35:15 AM , Rating: 2
Right click the interface and click (Bottom right) 'All Apps'.

You can add them back whenever you feel like it


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By Arsynic on 10/2/2012 10:56:45 AM , Rating: 1
In my opinion, it doesn't suck. I love that the Start Menu has been replaced by the Start Screen and all of my applications work. When I'm on the desktop, it's just like I'm using Windows 7.

And that may be the problem. For people running Windows 7, there's no reason to format and install Windows 8 unless you have a touchscreen AIO PC. Windows 7 is fine for most vanilla PCs.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By jjlj on 10/2/2012 11:11:38 AM , Rating: 2
I really see the benefit to win 8 on a touch screen device. For me on the HTPC it was more of a hassle. I really can't wait to see it on a tablet or convertible laptop.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By Mitch101 on 10/2/2012 12:06:41 PM , Rating: 4
2 Minutes hope this helps solve all your navigation needs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rDN_R4j1FM

If you like keyboard shortcuts:
WinKey = Toggle between metro and desktop mode
WinKey + F = File manager
WinKey + D? = Desktop mode (Windows 7)
WinKey + W = Apps List
WinKey + I = Settings and customization panel
WinKey + L = Lock screen
WinKey + X = Administrative tools
WinKey + C = Right panel (Settings, Search, Share)


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By jjlj on 10/2/2012 12:29:11 PM , Rating: 2
I generally use keyboard shortcuts, especially win key + L at work. I'll have to keep those in mind next time I use win 8. Thanks!


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By Mitch101 on 10/2/2012 2:50:47 PM , Rating: 2
No prob. Like most I hated Win 8 when I first started using it I kept doing the mouse scroll wheel and getting annoyed it took a little training but now I like it a lot.

Think this weekend I'll try and install the RTM version and make it official.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By nikon133 on 10/2/2012 5:25:11 PM , Rating: 4
Or you can right-click on Start Screen corner (low-left).

Uber-geek menu will give you following options:

Programs and Features
Power Options
Event Viewer
System
Device Manager
Disk Management
Computer Management
Command Prompt
Command Prompt (Admin)
Task Manager
Control Panel
File Explorer
Search
Run
Desktop

I don't know if there are pre-requirements (part of domain, local admin rights..?) or if this menu is always there... but it is brilliant.

I know this is completely personal opinion, but: I'd rather upgrade my home Pc to Win 8, than downgrade my office PC back to Win 7.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By Belard on 10/2/2012 6:37:44 PM , Rating: 2
Like... WOW. A "touch based" UI that requires a keyboard to bloody use. Do you see the logic in this?

So what worked fine before with a mouse, now requires a keyboard, mouse and maybe touch screen?

This is why Windows8 = fail. Its a crappy design.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By nafhan on 10/2/2012 11:35:46 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
For people running Windows 7, there's no reason to format and install Windows 8 unless you have a touchscreen AIO PC. Windows 7 is fine for most vanilla PCs.
Exactly. Windows 8 really just isn't aimed at upgraders, it'll be most useful for new systems (especially touchscreens and tablets), and I think that's fine. I do think, however, that Metro apps will start becoming the norm at some point, and Win 7 users will probably want to upgrade then. That point is years away, and probably will coincide with the release of Windows 9.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By dark matter on 10/2/2012 11:39:14 AM , Rating: 2
All of your applications work on Windows 7.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By kmmatney on 10/2/2012 4:04:18 PM , Rating: 2
The built-in email App is terrible on the desktop...Holy cow! Lots of wasted space, and you have to go a loooong way to select and then delete a message. totally made for tablets, but terrible on a desktop with 24" screen.


By inighthawki on 10/2/2012 6:05:23 PM , Rating: 2
Then don't use it?


By NellyFromMA on 10/2/2012 1:00:56 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, I think this is effectively MS's silent approach. They have THE best desktop OS hands down in Win 7. It's indisputable even. Why would they REALLY have to (once again) shove another desktop OS down our throats that we DONT EVEN NEED.

They never said they aren't selling Win 7 anymore. If you have it, you don't get it taken away. The WPF/SVG design language isn't going away going forward.

Truth is, Win 7 is NOT GOOD ON MOBILE DEVICES. They tried, they failed.

So, why not make the best mobile OS? They tried, I'm betting the scuceeeded. No one has ANYTHING negative to say about Win8 as a mobile OS. Rave reviews actually.

So guess what? Now MS has the BEST DESKTOP OS (Win 7) and the best mobile OS soon-to-be IMO any many others (Win 8).

Sounds like a win strategy to me. Why peoples heads implode on this topic is beyond me.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By martyrant on 10/2/2012 11:10:29 AM , Rating: 2
I do hate the new start menu, but it's a lot less annoying when you have multiple monitors which allows you to use the new start menu minimally.

That said, the improvements in cold boots, restarts, time to sleep and time to wake, memory handling, task manager, file transfers, etc. are much better in Windows 8 than they were in Windows 7.

I still think they should give the user the option to use the old style start menu as the new one is simply a pain in the ass most of the time. Almost everything else I can use just like Windows 7, except the start menu.

Also, launching items from the Start Menu creates like a "Virtual Window" for that program, which is also annoying when you have multiple monitors because there's no reason for Chrome to be isolated when I constantly have it open on one of my 4 monitors.

WTB ORIGINAL START MENU M$, otherwise, you did a pretty good job.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By jjlj on 10/2/2012 11:15:58 AM , Rating: 2
If I could have a tablet with the start menu on it and the monitor connected to the HTPC be strictly a desktop that would be killer.

My computer only goes to sleep and is rebooted very rarely.

I would be ok with windows 8 start screen / tiles if I could specify that when I hit the windows key that the desktop come up as opposed to the start screen. I already pin my frequently used programs and hardly ever go into the control panel or anywhere else so I don't use the start menu much with win 7 as it is.


By martyrant on 10/2/2012 11:56:38 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know what your Windows key does, but mine either brings up the Start Menu if I'm at the desktop or if I tap it while at the Start Menu it brings me to my desktop...so...have you ever tried your windows key at all?


By NellyFromMA on 10/2/2012 1:02:48 PM , Rating: 2
Word on the street is Win 8 tablets can interface with Win 8 PC and be used as the start menu. It's a very interesting synergy I'm hoping to hear more on soon.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By kmmatney on 10/2/2012 3:59:07 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sort of glad they didn't have the start menu, as I would have never tried "ClassicShell" if they did. ClassicShell is an opensource program which gives you a start Meni in Windows 8, and best of all you can choose the style - Windows 7, Vista, or even Windows XP. I use the Windows XP style, as it lets me find and launch programs much faster than the newer start menus. It a really nice, unbloated, piece of software.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By nikon133 on 10/2/2012 5:11:40 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you on everything, except that I don't mind new start menu. I simply accepted that Start Screen is Start menu, and right-click/all apps button on start screen is All Programs on Win 7 start menu.

I have installed Win 8 on my work PC as soon as it became available to partners. Took me an hour to get used to it (I did an upgrade so all the apps were already there, including taksbar shortcuts etc.), and had a smooth ride ever since. Re start screen, I've configured "Metro" Mail, People, Messages... for my personal email and FB account - work account is on Outlook - and like how I can check new personal emails, FB updates etc by just opening Start Screen. Plus, right-click on lower-left corner is a gift from heaven.

My office desktop cold-boots in 21 seconds, 10 of which is pre-boot (post screen etc.). Awesome.

And have I mentioned right-click on Start Screen corner? Brilliant.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By OoklaTheMok on 10/2/2012 12:43:07 PM , Rating: 2
Are you serious? I had zero problem adjusting the DPI in Windows 8. It's done the same way is in Win 7. I am running with large, easy to read tiles on my 47" from about 12' away @1920x1080.

All I can say is that you must not doing it right.

Once you get it going, the big tiles on a tv are brilliant! Metro visually scales so well.

WMC is still around, but it needs to be revamped for the Windows 8 "Metro" style, include an improved programming model and get content partners onboard. But I doubt that we will see that since XBOX is the preferred media hub.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By jjlj on 10/2/2012 1:52:00 PM , Rating: 2
I honestly couldn't get the text on the tiles to scale. It always stayed the same. I may have to give it another go. I'll load it as a VM and just play with it more.


By TakinYourPoints on 10/2/2012 11:13:36 PM , Rating: 2
You're correct, scaling in Windows 8 hasn't improved: http://techreport.com/review/23631/how-windows-8-s...

This really surprised me, I thought they would have started to catch up with OS X and iOS in this regard, especially since tablets are going to have higher and higher DPI going forward.

Perhaps this is why the Surface has such low resolution for a tablet, so that text and images render properly given the limitations of the OS.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By NellyFromMA on 10/2/2012 12:51:09 PM , Rating: 2
Seeing as how Windows 8 is geared towards something arguably complete different than the PCs currently running Windows 7, I think its kind of like comparing oranges and grapes. It's a totally different measuring stick I'd say. Maybe compare the switch from Dos to Win 3.1?


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By kmmatney on 10/2/2012 4:01:58 PM , Rating: 1
I hardly see it that way. I've been using Windows 8 a little bit, and it just seems like Windows 7, with a new "not-Metro" start screen, and no start menu. Once you run a desktop App, it goes into desktop mode, and looks exactly like Windows 7, but without Aero (at least for me). There are some improvements overall, but it's just Win 7 with a new, unavoidable, start screen.


RE: Because it is terrible, IMO...
By Moishe on 10/3/2012 4:22:13 PM , Rating: 2
I agree that WMC is a big loss. I won't upgrade my desktop until I get a decent WMC replacement. Period. I don't own a TV, and I use my PC for everything except BluRay. Maybe that's a niche, but it's a niche I like.


"The whole principle [of censorship] is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak." -- Robert Heinlein














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