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Country claims Orwellian measures are necessary to fight "white collar crime"

Steve Dalby has a big problem.  As the chief regulatory officer at Australian internet service provider iiNet Ltd. (ASX:IIN), he tells the Sydney Morning Herald that his company is struggling sustain the $3M USD a month service the government is demanding to spy on its citizens.

I. Orwellian Plan Could Cost Telecoms $3M USD a Month

Other service providers like Telstra Comp., Ltd. (ASX:TLS) are flat-out refusing to comply saying the government order to spy on everything from a user's Google Inc. (GOOG) searches to storing the numbers involved in their encrypted payments via eBay, Inc.'s (EBAY) PayPal is not only a gross invasion of privacy -- it's also likely illegal.

Security director Darren Kane told the SMH, "We cannot capture or provide any metadata or any content around something like Gmail because it is Google-owned, it is offshore and it is over the top of our network.  The real value of what we might have in a data retention scheme would be greatly diminished as soon as the organised criminals and potential terrorists knew that we were not capturing that data."

big brother is watching
Australia wants to "watch" its citizens' every digital communications. [Image Source: DeviantArt]

But that's precisely what the Australian Securities and Investment Commission (ASIC) wants access to full access to all user metadata, including usernames and passwords.  It also wants to intercept and store copies of citizens' emails, social media chats, and text messages.

ASIC officials claim that handing ubiquitous spy powers to government regulators will help the ASIC fight "white collar crime".  But collecting the information may actually create criminal opportunity, as Telstra points out.  And industry officials suggest that the plan could cost up to $400M USD to put in place, plus potentially tens, if not hundreds of millions a month to maintain a full watch over users' data.

II. U.S. Presidential Candidates are Eyeing Similar Efforts

Australia is a pretty punitive nation when it comes to internet law enforcement, having been among the few to contemplate a "strikes" plan to disconnect users' internet.  But it's far from alone.  The Obama and Bush administrations both worked to bolster frameworks to allow non-transparentwarrantlessubiquitous spying.  This is unlikely to change as both the current President and Republican nominee Mitt Romney have defending domestic spying.


Mr. Romney expressed a viewpoint narrowly in line with the President's plugging warrantless wiretaps in an interview, stating, "If it means we have to go into a mosque to wiretap or a church, then that's exactly where we are gonna go, because we are going to do whatever it takes to protect the American people. And I hear from time to time people say, 'Hey, wait a sec, we have civil liberties to worry about', but don't forget... the most important civil liberty I expect from my government is my right to be kept alive."

Much like Australia, the U.S. is currently considering heaping a plan to sever "frequent" pirates' internet on top of the growing framework of non-transparent, warrantless surveillance methods.

In both nations the big pushback is coming from interne service providers and internet software service providers like Google.

Source: Sydney Morning Herald



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Just remember this, my friends.
By dark matter on 9/28/2012 6:13:23 PM , Rating: 5
It's not just iPhone's we import from China. Well, we might, but the politicians always have to take it one step too far.

That's why you have the right to bear arms, you know.




By dark matter on 9/28/2012 6:14:12 PM , Rating: 2
If you don't, they fucked you long time ago.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By StevoLincolnite on 9/28/12, Rating: 0
By Justin Time on 9/28/2012 11:26:12 PM , Rating: 3
Yes, gun ownership in Australia is not a 'right' - it's a privilege, that you need to justify and earn.

While it is not a cure for illegal gun use (criminals don't obey laws) as an Australian, I'm very glad that it's not a 'right' and that everyone doesn't have easy access.

However, privacy is another issue... I would have thought that a bit more of a 'right' - although not much is actually a 'right' in our constitution.

The current plans for data-retention and access haven't been fully thought through yet.

5 years of even meta-data, let alone actual data (as ASIC have suggested) will require a stupendous amount of storage space. I suspect that once the ISPs provide the authorities with the full projected costings, there will be a serious rethink.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By bobogo2013 on 9/29/2012 2:52:10 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Banning guns probably won't work in a country such as the U.S.A, but here if you ask most Australian's they're actually very happy with the decision.
..

Actually... the sheeple in the "U.S.A." are very happy to give over their supposed "rights". I wonder if anyone ever realized that a "right" is something you can accept or deny... hmm...


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By Lerianis on 9/30/2012 8:30:09 AM , Rating: 3
Not as many as you think. I personally speak out against these violations of Constitutional rights on a regular basis and 99% of people are with me in that these spying programs are overzealous.

The bottom line is that this ubiquitous spying will NOT prevent anything. Terrorists are smart enough to know how to use TOR, encryption, stenography, etc.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By jeffkro on 10/1/2012 9:54:40 PM , Rating: 2
They also use the extremely low tech currier technique


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By Revoran on 10/1/2012 10:58:54 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Australian Media is some of the most free in the world


Actually nearly all Australian media is owned by just a couple of companies who control all news content you and I get to see.

Ten is owned by Gina Rhinehart and James Packer/WIN. Rupert Murdoch's son is the CEO.

That is just an example of how concentrated media ownership is in Australia. We literally have some of the most concentrated media ownership in the world.

Not including ABC and SBS of course.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By BZDTemp on 9/29/12, Rating: -1
RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By StevoLincolnite on 9/29/2012 7:27:07 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Don't make guns in every house out to be a good thing because it's not.


Not entirely accurate as there is one very notable good thing from it... And I quote:

quote:
You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By MadMan007 on 9/29/12, Rating: -1
RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By fredgiblet on 9/29/2012 8:01:55 PM , Rating: 2
I'd like to point out that people with worse guns who are worse shots have tied us up for years and cost billions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Granted they're fighting a losing war, but they did play a major part in bleeding Russia dry in the 80's and the last decade will probably go down as one of the major causes of the failure of the US if we dont' get our act together.


By TeXWiller on 9/30/2012 11:07:47 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
people with worse guns
Only that their guns are actual AK-47s or clones thereof and those training camps do supposedly give the people basic military training, probably similar to what was given at the eve of WW2.
A similar training would be surely given to everyone and the military grade weapons distributed widely in the hypothetical case of invasion in the US.
quote:
Granted they're fighting a losing war,
If "they" - that's a word with a complex meaning in this case - are fighting for the causes they are saying, they can't lose as long as there is a single breathing human being representing their culture in the area. It doesn't appear to be a war for certain areas, or strategic strong points but for existence and self-determination of groups of people, ignoring actual political terrorists.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By knutjb on 9/30/2012 5:07:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'd like to point out that people with worse guns who are worse shots have tied us up for years and cost billions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
When you have a "leader" who does not have the word "victory" in his vernacular and follows a 1970's failed foreign policy, what do you expect? He has lost more soldiers in Afghanistan than did Bush. Whenever you tell your opponent we're leaving on X date you have FAILED BY CHOICE. War has never been a "police action" that he and his side purport it to be. In war you win it decisively, clean up the loose weapons, AND THEN send in the police force. Bush didn't and Obama certainly isn't.

So,
quote:
Granted they're fighting a losing war, but they did play a major part in bleeding Russia dry in the 80's and the last decade will probably go down as one of the major causes of the failure of the US if we dont' get our act together.
The only reason we are doing very poorly right now is the incredible omission of will by our leader and not fighting a fast, to the point war with pre-defined and well-defined goals. This ideology stems from the misguided, progressive belief that a large combat force has no place in this day of civilized people.

There is no silver in war, let alone trophies for everyone. Go BIG or stay at home. War is ugly, vile, and an unfortunate reality that if not tackled in a hard and, sadly, brutal manner, don't bother.

By not following a war plan of victory you end up with governments reacting with the wrong approach shown in the story above in a world that is unnecessarily less safe than it was before.


By DarkUltra on 9/30/2012 8:21:09 PM , Rating: 1
If Obama had let the war on terror gone on auto-pilot, it would cost so much that USA would never be able to pay their debts. Training a police force and building the country would remove the foundation of taliban; give people a better life and they do not turn to religion and fanatism.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By Paj on 10/1/2012 8:17:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
When you have a "leader" who does not have the word "victory" in his vernacular and follows a 1970's failed foreign policy, what do you expect?


It was the 1970s cold war approach to conflict that has lead to the current mess. You cant defeat an insurgency with bigger tanks, more bombs, and faster planes.

quote:
The only reason we are doing very poorly right now is the incredible omission of will by our leader and not fighting a fast, to the point war with pre-defined and well-defined goals.


In a way, youre right. The objectives of both wars seemed to be 'stop terr'rists'. Invading a sovereign nation, on a pretext of dodgy intelligence, that turned out to have nothing to do with 9/11 in defiance of the UNSC probably isnt the best way to go about it.

quote:
This ideology stems from the misguided, progressive belief that a large combat force has no place in this day of civilized people.


Clearly a large combat force isnt the answer - or else some measure of success would have been achieved by now?

quote:
There is no silver in war, let alone trophies for everyone. Go BIG or stay at home. War is ugly, vile, and an unfortunate reality that if not tackled in a hard and, sadly, brutal manner, don't bother.


Keep that up in the Middle East and the problems will continue - new generations of freedom fighters will take up arms against the invaders. This, in turn, will only flare up anti-Western sentiment. This is exactly the wrong approach to take.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By knutjb on 10/2/2012 1:23:48 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It was the 1970s cold war approach to conflict that has lead to the current mess. You cant defeat an insurgency with bigger tanks, more bombs, and faster planes.
You missed the point about the left's approach in 1970, they only wanted to appease the enemy at that time. Just talk to them nicely and they'll see that you a just like they are. That is what Obama's apology tour was all about. Didn't work then, will not work in my lifetime. For any such discussion to work you have to have all parties willing to work, usually that persuasion is overwhelming force or valid threat of force. You can never negotiate from a position of weakness.
quote:
In a way, youre right. The objectives of both wars seemed to be 'stop terr'rists'. Invading a sovereign nation, on a pretext of dodgy intelligence, that turned out to have nothing to do with 9/11 in defiance of the UNSC probably isnt the best way to go about it.
The UN is totally useless, much like the progressives last effort the League of Nations. The problem with intelligence is that its never perfect. As far as I've heard the major European players ALL had similar, corroborating information. Saddam was a very good liar. Also, ALL of the UN declarations on Iraq were about to run out and could not be extended given the make up of the UNSC. Saddam was paying the families of suicide bombers, killing his own people, and so on. What real, that is, not with your head in the sand solution that does not rely on 20-20 hind site did you propose that nearly all of the Senate and the House fail to consider when they passed the authorization to attack.
quote:
Clearly a large combat force isnt the answer - or else some measure of success would have been achieved by now?
Oh yes a large force IS the answer. The massive surge turned around the battles in Iraq. If we had gone in with double the forces, rather than the light forces pushed by those trying to shrink the military so they can spend said monies on their own pet projects we wouldn't have let the legislative branch become arm chair generals.
quote:
Keep that up in the Middle East and the problems will continue - new generations of freedom fighters will take up arms against the invaders. This, in turn, will only flare up anti-Western sentiment. This is exactly the wrong approach to take.
The primary reason the problems continue is we have a leader who thinks giving in and leading from behind will win the hearts and minds of those who hate us for reasons other than what he thinks. I don't care if they like us. Respect goes further than does "liking us." Which, by the way is also at an all time low under this president.

More soldiers have died in Afghanistan under Obama's 3.5 years than the previous 6.5 years under Bush. Kicking out the bad leader in Egypt worked how well? The problem with rapid, radical, uncontrolled change, particularly while leading from behind, is that you are unable to shape the change. That doesn't mean we run said country, only that slow, consistent pressure prevents the radicals from taking over as they did in Egypt.

So, learn the history that isn't taught in school, they tend to leave a lot out.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By rdhood on 10/3/2012 5:14:08 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Sorry to break it to the gun rights people who think their hunting rifles and smei-auto pseudo-assault rifles would stop a proper military but...no, they wouldn't. It might have worked through most of the 19th century but once mechanized warfare became the standard civilian guns don't mean much


200 million people carrying them would certainly be a deterrent. AK47s can quickly and easily be converted to full auto. IEDs are pretty effective as well. No, the local populations wouldn't have tanks and planes, but you can see how well those have worked in Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, etc. To believe that one or two hundred million armed people would be impotent against any kind of invading force is blissful ignorance. Bring 'em on.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By Omega215D on 9/29/2012 10:58:13 PM , Rating: 2
Switzerland is a good example.

Also, I'm guessing many of the people here haven't visited Montana or other like states. Guns are tools out there.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By fredgiblet on 9/30/2012 12:41:22 AM , Rating: 2
Indeed.

the problems that America has with crime have next to nothing to do with the number of guns. The guns just make crime slightly easier and somewhat more deadly.

Taking away guns won't reduce crime much if at all, it will just shift the statistics a bit.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By jeffkro on 10/1/2012 10:00:30 PM , Rating: 2
Switzerland and Montana have a very different population than say the inner city of Chicago.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By Zaranthos on 9/29/2012 12:48:12 PM , Rating: 3
Really? Yet violent crime is worse in England. Less guns has made you less safe according to the data. You may have less firearms injuries and death but you're more likely to get raped, robbed, and beaten. I think I'll keep the guns and just be diligent my family uses them wisely. You think you're safer with less guns but the facts don't back that up.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-ord...


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By Lerianis on 9/30/2012 8:35:59 AM , Rating: 2
Thank you for posting this. I was just about to bring up that people in the U.K. and Australia are much more likely to be robbed, raped and beaten because they have made personal defense weapons (including knives) almost totally illegal.


By martin5000 on 9/30/2012 12:47:52 PM , Rating: 2
In the UK pretty much anything can be recorded as violent crime for any petty reason such as if you verbally abused someone, this massively skews the statistics.

The murder rate in the USA is 4x that per capita than the UK, that is hardly consistent with the UK being as dangerous as you make it sound.


By Autisticgramma on 10/4/2012 2:50:02 PM , Rating: 2
The US constitution says all men are created equal. In god's eyes maybe.

However, as a 6'+ male, I can tell you this isn't true. Guns are equalizers, plain and simple. Gramma can take you out! and thank goodness. Protection is why historical (think old functional cultures i.e. India.) family units include grand parents. In America, this isn't the case, gramma has her own house. Guns, no one knows if you have one, are the reason.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By lagomorpha on 9/29/2012 3:30:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
accidental shootings in numbers even remotely to those in the US.


Forgive me for not losing sleep over 0.023% of deaths in the US.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By Lerianis on 9/30/2012 8:27:45 AM , Rating: 2
He should also mention that a lot of that .023% are NOT accidental shootings but shootings done in homes in self defense that the various anti-gun rights organizations say are 'accidental' when they are really justified homicide or someone shooting a person to protect their home without killing them.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By jeffkro on 10/1/2012 10:06:09 PM , Rating: 2
No, by far most shootings are homicides not cases of self defense.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By Gondor on 9/30/2012 10:09:06 AM , Rating: 2
You got the figure wrong, it's 0.0000023% per year (the figure for unintentional gun-related deaths posted by Wikipedia).

This means ~715 deaths per year - that's even more than the average of deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan combined over last decade, and the full figure (including homicides and suicides) is considerably (= 40+ times) higher.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By FaaR on 9/29/2012 9:09:05 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's why you have the right to bear arms, you know.

Because millions of firearms in the hands of every joe out there is what stopped the patriot act, and warrantless surveillance, and warrantless wiretapping, and...?

Puh-leeze. You actually believe that claptrap yourself? You even as much as wave your gun in the face of the US gov't, you'll see just how far that supposed right to bear actually gets you...


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By glenco on 9/30/2012 11:07:09 PM , Rating: 2
wow, some common sense on this site


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By rdhood on 10/3/2012 5:26:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because millions of firearms in the hands of every joe out there is what stopped the patriot act, and warrantless surveillance, and warrantless wiretapping, and...? Puh-leeze. You actually believe that claptrap yourself?


The second amendment was not created as a deterrent to prevent the U.S. lawmakers from passing laws. Read the Declaration of Independence. There may come a day when citizens have to fight the governement, but none of the infringements upon our freedoms has come anywhere near a declaration of war against our own government.

I suspect that when we have U.S. troops stationed in every town acting as a police force, when national marshal law is enacted, when the government in-power decides that elections are no longer necessary, when I am no longer allowed to get in my car and go where I want, when there is a video camera in my house that the government can view at any time... etc, etc, etc, THEN we may need to organize an insurrection. I think that we are a LONG way from that right now.


RE: Just remember this, my friends.
By Paj on 10/1/2012 8:21:03 AM , Rating: 2
No, it's why you have the right to vote.


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