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Nissan also sat up an independent global advisory board

Nissan has a handful of not so happy Leaf electric vehicle owners in the state of Arizona. The hotter the environment, the less drive time an electric vehicle's batteries can offer. Nissan has been catching significant flak over allegations that the battery packs in some of its Leaf EV's in the state of Arizona are having issues. 
 
In July of 2012, Nissan dealerships in the state of Arizona started taking $5,000 off the sticker price of the electric Leaf vehicle to sell the cars. Several Leaf owners in Arizona began complaining that the electric vehicles were losing significant battery capacity due to the hot environment.
 
Leaf owner Scott Yarosh said, "When I first purchased the vehicle, I could drive to and from work on a single charge, approximately 90 miles round trip. [Now] I can drive approximately 44 miles on this without having to stop and charge."
 
I Nissan's Carla Bailo, senior VP of research and development, stepped up and addressed Leaf owners in an open letter posted to the Leaf community at the MyNissanLeaf discussion forum. According to the open letter, several Leaf EVs were inspected in Arizona and were determined to be operating to specification and the battery capacity loss over time is consistent with their usage and the operating environment. Nissan declared no defects are found in these vehicles.
 
 
The letter also states,  "A small number of Nissan Leaf owners in Arizona are experiencing a greater than average battery capacity loss due to their unique usage cycle, which includes operating mileages that are higher than average in a high-temperature environment over a short period of time."
 
It sounds like what Nissan is saying is that losing significant driving range is normal. Most owners of the Leaf EV are going to have a hard time stomaching that claim.

Nissan has also promised more open communication with owners of the Leaf EV. The company created an independent global advisory board, headed by EV advocate Chelsea Sexton to help with customer communications and advise Nissan on strategy.

Nissan has promised that the 2013 Leaf will have a longer driving range.

Source: Autoblog



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Why would anyone buy ...
By danjw1 on 9/25/2012 11:59:48 AM , Rating: 3
Why would anyone buy this car that when the manufacturer is blaming the customer for it not working correctly. Anyone who buys a Nissan at this point is a fool(and yes, I mean any Nissan). If this is their corporate culture, then everyone needs to run the other direction when ever they get near a dealership. What a fiasco.




RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By Spuke on 9/25/2012 12:08:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why would anyone buy this car that when the manufacturer is blaming the customer for it not working correctly.
Removing all doubt.


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By Apone on 9/25/2012 2:38:06 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe this is Nissan pulling an Apple with their "You're driving it wrong!" PR statement...


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By dgingerich on 9/25/2012 3:22:16 PM , Rating: 2
Anyone who would buy a hybrid or electric vehicle in Arizona, or any place with a long period of consistent temps over 95F, is a fool. Batteries degrade with high temps, and if the ambient temp is too high, no amount of added cooling is going to help.

It's not Nissan's fault they're making such a bad decision. It's not their fault some people are just too stupid.


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By Qapa on 9/25/2012 6:29:34 PM , Rating: 2
Not really, there is battery warranty... of 5 years or so, and some statement that it should retain 80% of battery after 10 years.

So, up to 5 years, whenever the battery is under 80% of full operating capacity (when "currently fully charged"), then Nissan should, under warranty provide a new battery. Period!

No conditions on "how the car was driven" since that is not in the warranty.

No conditions on "where was the car located was too hot" since that is not in the warranty.

But still, here in Europe, I tried to ask about that specifically and got some vague answers... either they back it up, or they should not have such warranty. If they have it, they should be made to comply with it! Period! And that weighted in for not buying the Leaf... among price...


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By toffty on 9/25/2012 4:13:03 PM , Rating: 2
I bought the Leaf so I could drive my car for free (over-sized solar panels on my house roof, installed a few years ago). I live in Colorado which is a perfect climate for an EV. Sure there are temp extremes but, unlike Az, the temps are not extended (this is what kills the battery). The battery is fine at < 120 F and Co rarely gets that hot and if it does it's only for an hour at most. Gets really cold at night while the car's in the garage which doesn't get below 30 F. Really though cold doesn't 'kill' the battery, it just decreased the amount of energy that can be stored by a slight amount.

The Leaf is the first mass-produced EV. It will have technical problems. As battery tech gets better (and cheaper) the major problem goes away. In 5 years time we will have solid state batteries (Envia) with Li-Air coming soon after.

Honestly I never want a gas powered car again. EVs are so much simpler - one moving part in the engine (motor in this case) and a simple gear ratio changing single speed transmission. No oil changes. No waiting in line at the gas station.

The people that buy EVs currently drive less than 70 miles in a day. They want to move away from the addiction of oil and realize there's no better fuel source - Hydrogen is a joke as it either use hydrocarbons (oil/gas) or uses massive amounts of energy and clean water for hydrolysis. Electric Vehicles is the only solution to keep the current infrastructure where people own their own vehicles.

I enjoy my Leaf and plan to have it for at least another 5 years at which point I'll buy another EV.


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By Spuke on 9/25/2012 5:29:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Electric Vehicles is the only solution to keep the current infrastructure where people own their own vehicles.
Really? Care to post some data that supports that claim?
quote:
I enjoy my Leaf and plan to have it for at least another 5 years at which point I'll buy another EV.
I have no plans to even buy a hybrid in the next 10 years. I may just end up being that old man that hangs onto his super old, POS car. I'll buy what I choose to buy, period.


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By toffty on 9/25/2012 7:52:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Really? Care to post some data that supports that claim?
Sure!

Gas power: Limited gas resources. Volatile price. Harmful to environment - spills especially. Funds OPEC (indirectly for the US). Highly inefficient use of energy - 60% energy is lost in heat instead of moving the vehicle.

Corn based fuel: Growing corn is difficult on the soil - nutrients - and the amount of fuel/resources to plow, plant, water, fertilize, and harvest the fields of corn uses a lot of fuel. The land needed for corn will also replace fields for food and increase food prices. In times of drought who gets the water? The corn fields or the humans?

Sugar Cane based fuel: More efficient than corn but still runs into the problem of sugar cane fields instead of food, water needs, and the need of high heat to create the fuel from sugar cane.

Compressed Natural Gas: Highly compressed gas in a tank is dangerous (much more so than batteries or gas tanks) due to fume leaks and explosions from a puncture or from ignition. Large amounts of energy (relative) to compress it. Still relies on hydrocarbons.

Hydrogen: Highly volatile. No efficient way to make it. Best way to get hydrogen is from hydrocarbons. Hydrolysis is highly inefficient as it uses more energy to divide water than will be returned when the hydrogen is recombined with oxygen; also uses drinking grade water which is better used for human consumption. Storage and transportation is a huge problem as Hydrogen escapes easily from containers. Home-based hydrolysis is possible but due to small scale it is even less efficient energy wise.

Electric Vehicles: The source of energy doesn't matter: Coal, Natural Gas, Nuclear, Wind, Solar, Dams all produce the same electrons. As the nation gets cleaner with more wind, solar, and hopefully nuclear the cleaner the EV drives. Battery technology is advancing at a very high pass now that large amounts of funding is going into R&D. Highly efficient with electricity use. ~ 15% energy loss from battery to movement.

Gas is getting near its high price again and $5/gal is not far off. At that point many more people will start to move away from ICE vehicles. For those who travel locally, EVs are perfect. For those that must travel long distances, hybrids are a good compromise for the time being; at least until a nationwide network of charging stations is in place, at which point EVs will be the only car anyone will ever need.

quote:
I'll buy what I choose to buy, period
Who is telling you to by hybrids or EVs? I'm not.
I am simply pointing out that gas powered vehicles are not feasible for another century and no other propulsion system that's been proposed is any more feasible besides Electric Vehicles. I'm sorry that you like you ICE vehicle, but I'd ask you to please keep an open mind and if you're ever by a Nissan dealership, take a Leaf for a spin. It's not a sports car but the instant torque is still fun ;)


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By toffty on 9/25/2012 8:25:01 PM , Rating: 2
Who is telling you to buy hybrids or EVs?

should be

Who is forcing you to buy hybrids of EVs?

I am saying that people should consider hybrids/EVs but am in no way forcing you to buy them =)


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By danjw1 on 9/25/2012 11:16:45 PM , Rating: 2
And you are comfortable with Nissan blaming their customers about the issues? If the car can't perform properly in a particular climate, why are they selling it there?

I am glad that you like your car. I have no problem with EVs, I have a problem when a company blames the customer for a problem with the car. In fact when it becomes more feasible for me, I would like to own an EV. It just isn't going to come from a company that blames their customer for problems with the car. If the customer was really abusing the car, that would be one thing. But, it seems like the issue is the heat, not the use.


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By toffty on 9/26/2012 12:23:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And you are comfortable with Nissan blaming their customers about the issues? If the car can't perform properly in a particular climate, why are they selling it there?
I am in no way defending Nissan. What I am doing is answering the post's question, "Why would anyone buy an EV"


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By Dr of crap on 9/26/2012 8:32:05 AM , Rating: 2
Two points -

1 - You state the EV drivers only go 70 miles per day. Know at lot of EV owners to you? I'm just joking but you're right because that's about ALL the range you can get right at the moment. A REAL reason most are not buying these EVs. And in either high heat or very cold and that 70 miles beomes less and no good for most.

2 - WHY only keep it for 5 years??? You said that there isn't hardly any maintanence, one engine, simple design so it will last more than 5 years. Why the trade in at that point????


RE: Why would anyone buy ...
By toffty on 9/26/2012 11:20:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You state the EV drivers only go 70 miles per day.
This takes into account the hot/cold weather. I can drive over 100 miles if needed. I've only done it once though; agian I really never need ot drive that far.

quote:
WHY only keep it for 5 years???
My mom really wants my Leaf. Her Prius is 7 years old now. She wants to buy my Leaf when her Prius turns 10. At which point I'll pick up a new EV. Looking at the Tesla Bluestar (code name for their next sedan) or the BMW i3. I may look at the Inifinity based off of the Leaf, but that comes down to how Nissan handles this current issue.


"A politician stumbles over himself... Then they pick it out. They edit it. He runs the clip, and then he makes a funny face, and the whole audience has a Pavlovian response." -- Joe Scarborough on John Stewart over Jim Cramer














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