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Apple is looking to pile on with a Galaxy S III ban, despite that phone not being involved in the case.
South Korean analyst: Samsung "may lack in innovation, but right now, no one can beat Samsung in playing catch-up"

The crippling U.S. patent court $1.05B USD copyright infringement verdict against the world's largest smartphone maker, Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (KSC:005930), is far from over.  

I. Ban 'Em All

Apple, Inc. (AAPL) is pushing the San Jose, Calif. U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California to ban all currently on-sale products that were found to infringe in the case plus another couple products not listed in the case, which include Samsung's flagship Galaxy S III smartphone.  

Apple previously tried to ban the Galaxy S III, but failed.  I predicted it would now try to lump in such a ban on the wings of its massive victory, and indeed it did.
 
If Apple's request is granted, Samsung would essentially be banned from selling any smartphone other than its Focus 2 Windows Phone and its non-Android quasi-smartphones.

In Samsung's home nation of South Korea, shock is in the air.  Days before the U.S. verdict a Korean court had ruled that both companies had infringed on each others' work.  That verdict stood in stark contrast to the American jurors, who decided that Samsung stole a plethora of technologies and designs from Apple, and that Apple stole nothing from Samsung.

Questions of bias persist -- at least one of the jurors had a family member who held a large quantity of Apple stock, according to past reports -- but South Korean analysts fear that there may be a hint of truth in the ruling. They fear that perhaps their culture relies a bit too much on imitation when looking to conquer a new field.  But many of the critics also express feelings of pride in the company.  Even if Apple does "kick it out" of the U.S. market, what Samsung did -- beating Apple in an unregulated market battle -- was impressive.

Comments James Song, KDB Daewoo Securities' Samsung-centric analyst, in an interview with The New York Times, "The ruling makes us reconsider the brand value of Samsung because it depicts Samsung as a copycat.  But a copycat or not, what Samsung has done with its smartphones was a brilliant move.  Look what has happened to companies like Nokia, Motorola and BlackBerry, which didn't do as Samsung did.  Samsung may lack in innovation, but right now, no one can beat Samsung in playing catch-up."

Indeed -- outside of Samsung, nearly ever phonemaker that isn't named "Apple" is in bad financial trouble.  Google Inc.'s (GOOG) Motorola and Taiwan's HTC Corp. (TPE:2498) are both posting disappointing earnings and shrinking market share.  Research in Motion, Ltd. (TSE:RIM) is creeping ever closer to a breakup liquidation/fire sale.  And Nokia Oyj. (HEX:NOK1V) is requiring deep financial support from Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) to stay afloat.

But JoongAng Ilbo, a local newspaper, takes a more cynical bent, commenting in an editorial, "Copying and clever upgrading are no longer viable.  Samsung must reinvent itself as a first-mover, despite the huge risks involved in acting as a pioneer, if it hopes to beat the competition."

II. Can Samsung Stay Ahead of Apple?

South Korean analysts acknowledge that Samsung's phones are "similar" to Apple's and that it arrived cautiously to the smartphone market, versus some other early adopters, such as RIM and Nokia, who plunged in headfirst.  But they point out that for the similarities, Samsung established a unique look for its products, made them cheaper than Apple's, and endowed them with arguably superior hardware.

The company's expertise in display and chip-making gave it a key advantage, when it eventually did elect for a full-on smartphone push.

Anthony Michell, author of “Samsung Electronics and the Struggle for Leadership of the Electronics Industry", tells The NYT, "Koreans do things quicker than almost anyone.  Samsung Electronics and the Struggle for Leadership of the Electronics Industry.  This allows them to change models, go from design to production faster than anyone at the present time. Korean companies continually set themselves challenges, like the challenge to overtake Sony in terms of brand value in the past."

Some say its legacy of rapid adaptation will allow it to survive Apple's patent assault.

Samsung smartphones
Some say despite the pending bans, Samsung may be able to stay ahead of Apple.
[Image Source: Reuters]

Even with Apple seeking to ban all its U.S. Android smartphone sales, Samsung is racing to modify its operating system to remove features -- such as "rubber-band" graphical flourishes that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office granted Apple exclusive rights to animate in a mobile user interface setting.

If Samsung is able to remove the features, the ban could be reduced from months to days or weeks.

Some analysts are convinced that Apple will actually fall farther behind Samsung in U.S. sales in Q3, despite the damage to its image and potential bans.  Comments Kevin Lee, an analyst at Korea Investment and Securities, "The patent ruling and Samsung’s copycat image will have a negative impact on Samsung’s sales of cellphones and other products.  But Samsung will further widen the gap with Apple in the third quarter, though not as much as expected before the ruling."

And, of course, Samsung also has an appeal of Apple's court win in the U.S. federal court pipeline too -- so it potentially could undo or mar Apple's greatest legal triumph somewhere in the near future.

Source: The New York Times



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Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 1:26:17 PM , Rating: 1
Regardless of what your lawyers do , and how well you manipulate the flawed patent system your competitors have surpassed you. You WILL need to start innovating again or your marketshare will continue to erode. 2011, Android outsold iPhone 2.5 to 1. The latest Q2 2012 is now 4 to 1, and that was with primarily Android 2.3x devices.

Looking at a 4 inch 4G iPhone 5 with IOS6 compared with the Galaxy S3, the iPhone is left lacking. Fast forward 3-4 months and we will have a new generation of even better Android devices and the iPhone 5 will still have another 3 quarters to go in its lifecycle. Next year looks like a rout for Android makers.




RE: Good luck Apple...
By NellyFromMA on 9/4/2012 1:31:22 PM , Rating: 5
To play devils advocate a little, one could argue there's virtually no level of innovation amongst the collective of Android phone manufacturers.

In many ways, there's not the biggest world of difference most users will care about between the iPhone and and given current Android phone EXCEPT most notably the screen size.

If Apple added an option for or otherwise matched the S3's screen size I'm sure the majority of Apple's consumers would be just fine with that and I'm betting that if Jobs were still around we'd see just that.

Mind you, I bought a Galaxy S3 despite being irritated beyond belief with my Droid Incredible and am quite happy with it and in general don't personally care for Apple products. (although its new, and most new phones perform well..)


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 1:36:13 PM , Rating: 3
"In many ways, there's not the biggest world of difference most users will care about between the iPhone and and given current Android phone EXCEPT most notably the screen size."

Agreed. Androids big advantage is flexibility. Want a large screen with removable battery? If that is what you want, there is a phone for you.

"If Apple added an option for or otherwise matched the S3's screen size I'm sure the majority of Apple's consumers would be just fine with that and I'm betting that if Jobs were still around we'd see just that."

I bet we still see a larger than 4 inch iPhone in the future. MAybe 2012 or 2014... And that is a good thing. I'd like to see that.

"Mind you, I bought a Galaxy S3 despite being irritated beyond belief with my Droid Incredible and am quite happy with it "

Agreed, Android 2.3 is just... blah. 4.0 and up is pretty damnd good though. Loving my S3 as well.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Jeffk464 on 9/4/2012 2:45:45 PM , Rating: 2
"In many ways, there's not the biggest world of difference most users will care about between the iPhone and and given current Android phone EXCEPT most notably the screen size."

Screen size is MAJOR when it comes to the smartphone experience.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Jeffk464 on 9/4/2012 2:46:59 PM , Rating: 2
and why can't apple do like samsung and offer different size phones to match costumer preferences?


RE: Good luck Apple...
By tamalero on 9/4/2012 4:48:32 PM , Rating: 2
a) Costs
b) Apple mantra is "people should adapt to us, we do not adapt to their tastes".


RE: Good luck Apple...
By NellyFromMA on 9/4/2012 5:00:20 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not saying Apple shouldn't, in fact I think they should... That's my point in a way ...

And yeah, screen size is a huge factor in UX. I guess that's my point...


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Samus on 9/5/2012 1:33:52 AM , Rating: 2
Have you used an iPhone recently? It still feels like the same product they launched 5 years ago. Last time I checked, BBOS has had more UI changes than IOS in the past few years and that is ridiculous. Sure, you can argue Apple's UI is great so no improvement is neccessary, but the fact they haven't IMPROVED ANYTHING in FIVE GOD DAMN YEARS totally lacks innovation. I'm sure they could do something, like at least add a pull-down menu or SMS notifications....ohh wait, they copied those from Android!


RE: Good luck Apple...
By NellyFromMA on 9/5/2012 10:00:16 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah. A coworker hereis a bit oh a phone fanatic and often switches between premium Androids and the latest iPhone at a given point although he's just moved off the 4s to an S3.

We also got the 'new' iPad the other days for in-the-field demos and what not with the 4g modem (I presume?) in it. It's really heavy for a tablet and without a case it's basically destined to hit the pavement. That in itself I think turns of the casual user. Not sure if the Wi-Fi only device is less heavy or not.

As far as the OS in general, it's just what Joe Generic needs to feel like they are tech saavy... 5 years ago...

It's very dated feeling. I don't know if Steve Jobs would really allow that to have happened on his watch. The hi-res display didn't even really impress me as much as I thought it was going to. Maybe if the OS leveraged the display more it might not have felt that way.. idk but I agree with you on that.

Who knows how fickle the consumers are. I'm betting in Apple's case quite fickle if they don't receive a stunning upgrade sometime in the next 1.5-2 years


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Aloonatic on 9/6/2012 3:11:36 AM , Rating: 2
They might be able to do that now, as phones are so powerful, but I think that a big part of Apples initial success was how smooth and pleasant to use the iPhone was as it rotated and zoomed in and out neatly and smoothly.

A big part of how nice it was to use was probably down to a fixed screen size with a resolution that worked well for it. When you start adding the option for different screen resolutions, you are bound to lose something in the quality of experience unless you are very careful or have a lot of power available.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By GotThumbs on 9/4/2012 2:47:46 PM , Rating: 2
Seems there are lots of one dimensional views here.

People have overlooked the other important factors...such as Apples ecosystem. Try using your freedom of choice when purchasing content for your phone. Android you have the Google "Play" store, Amazon, plus many others (see below). Where can you get apps for your IProducts...only ONE PLACE. For the idiots out there....apple does protect them from bad apps...most of the time. But for those who have a brain....but still have an IProduct...you give up your freedom of choice when you bought your first IProduct.

6 other places to get Android Apps:
http://thenextweb.com/apps/2011/01/09/6-alternativ...


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Tony Swash on 9/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 1:41:09 PM , Rating: 3
Marketshare will drive the benefits. If Apple doesnt start innovating again, they arent going to have the leverage they have had for the past few years.

I dont think that even you Tony could remain positive aboout Apples innovative pace lately. You see it as well as anyone. They put out a good product every year, but even you has to see how the rest of the industry is passing them by. They really need to come out with something interesting for the iPhone6, because the 5 is just more of the same with specs to match 2010 Android devices.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Tony Swash on 9/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 2:21:05 PM , Rating: 2
Well, developing apps for a larger market makes more money. Obviously in smartphones, Apple had that crown for the past 5 years. That is changing. Eventually, developers will have to go where the majority platform is. Furthermore, you act as if there is a huge gap. Most "AAA" apps are already on both platforms. It's not like a huge shift is needed. Right now, Apple has an advantage with app/dev support, but not an immense one.

"I thought the party line around here was that Apple didn't innovate."

I never said that. They do drive progress. The initial 2007 iPhone release was a HUGE innovation on the OS front. It changed everything. Since then... not so much innovation. Not any that I can think of. Appl


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 2:24:08 PM , Rating: 2
Meant to add at the end... Apple has not been making any progress for the past few years. The biggest things that come to mind are the high res screens, and the purchase of Siri... Well, on the Android platform, you can buy phones with larger higher res screens and Google Now easily trumps Siri in speed and funtionality. But, you already know that. You just act as if you dont.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Tony Swash on 9/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 3:07:52 PM , Rating: 1
"But that's just not true is it. Developers don't follow market share, they follow money, market share is only of interest to developers if it translates into greater sales and greater revenues. Android's greater market share has not translated in to greater revenues for developers. "

Of course they follow the money. What part of this are you not getting, or are you just being obtuse on purpose? From 2007 to 2011, Apple had an advantage. They were ahead of the competition in function and sales. The developer support was there and built up around it. Android last year started to outsell iPhone. Over the next few years what you will see is more and more development favoring Android. Why? Money. At some point as the sales gap grows, as a developer, you will make more $ selling 10 million copies on Android vs. 1 million on IOS. Not the past Tony, nor the present. The future. I think you see this as plainly as the next guy you just arent ready to admit it.

Let me put it this way so your skewed mind can understand (or at least argue the same point).
Android started off behind in features and then caught up and passed Apple. Android started off behind in hardware and then caught up and passed Apple. Android started off behind in sales and then caught up and passed Apple. Over the next few years you will see that Android started off behind in apps/dev support and then caught up and passed Apple. It's not even a large gap to make up. It's just the last little bit of advantage teh iPhone has and its going buh bye.

Have fun clinging to that platform though. I hope it brings you joy.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By momorere on 9/4/2012 3:33:32 PM , Rating: 1
Of course Android users are glued to the rear view mirror. We are simply waving bye bye to crApple as they become smaller and further behind and even more irrelevant.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Reclaimer77 on 9/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 2:28:06 PM , Rating: 2
Yup... One big point he misses:

From 2007 to 2011, Apple had an advantage. They were ahead of the competition. They use that to milk profits. Good for them, they desevred too. A good example of that is the Sprint deal. Sprint wont break even on the iPhone for 6 years per their own accounting. At the time, Apple could force customers and vendors to pay more because the alternative sucked... Now the alternative not only caught up, but it surpassed Apple.

If Apple were to go to Sprint with the same #'s today, Sprint would never take it. The days of Apple's heavy bargaining power are over and so are the sweetheart carrier deals.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Pirks on 9/4/2012 3:34:07 PM , Rating: 2
Well, so far market confirms Tony's point of view. No matter what Android sales is, Apple continues to get the ever larger and larger profits from the market, leaving peanuts/remnants to Android OEMs. I trust Tony more than you because market confirms his point, not yours.

I start believing in your "market share power" only after I see Apple's profits decline and Android OEMs grow, i.e. when actual MONEY and major dev studios start moving from iOS to Android and declare Android to be their primary MONEY MAKING platform. So far Android has been a second class also run. Even with its market share win and what not.

Tony is right. Market share means shit. Apple's huge profits are proving this again and again and again. Deal with it :)


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Reclaimer77 on 9/4/2012 3:48:08 PM , Rating: 2
Yes let's pretend that all of that money comes from a single phone model that's on a 15 month release cycle? Not tablets or iTunes or eBooks etc etc, just the iPhone? I don't think so.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Pirks on 9/4/2012 4:19:58 PM , Rating: 2
How is this related the fact that iPhone still takes almost all the profit in the market? Nice try to change subject, Reclaimer, but you failed again.

I'm repeating for all the really slow and ignorant people like you: the issue is not the huge Apple's profits per se, the issue is that these profits don't leave much to other OEMs. As soon as Apple's profits from mobile market go down significantly and start to resemble smth like 30% of all the market's profit - THEN I'll start bothering about your "market share" thing.

Is this clear enough now?


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Reclaimer77 on 9/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Good luck Apple...
By Pirks on 9/4/2012 5:12:21 PM , Rating: 3
I heard you falling down on your head and losing your ears and front teeth so don't yawn or you scare people


RE: Good luck Apple...
By jimbojimbo on 9/4/2012 4:30:47 PM , Rating: 2
and their overpriced computers and their extremely overpriced accessories.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 5:01:24 PM , Rating: 2
Most of it comes from the phones and the overpriced deals they made with the large carriers. Those sweetheart deals wont happen anymore either since there is better alternatives out there for the carriers.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 4:04:41 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks, you agreeing with Tony just cements my point, because you are a complete and total doofus when it comes to looking at the obvious business trends coming in the near future. Based on your logic, RIM was doing great in 2011, as a matter of fact, you insisted on it. Things change and those that dont innovate, die. Right now, Apple isnt innovating. They really havent innovated anything since the initial iPhone release in 2007. Android went from zero to 4x Apple's sales in just a few years. Android went from zero to supassing iPhone in features, hardware and sales. If you and Tony cant see the writing on the wall with that then you need glasses.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Pirks on 9/4/2012 4:06:09 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah good luck equating RIM and Apple LOL :)))


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 4:16:08 PM , Rating: 2
again, reading comprehension isnt your strong point. I am not equating RIM and Apple. Apple makes products that people want. RIM makes nothing that anyone wants. My point is only that at some point, the dramatic gap in sales will favor Android app development. At some point selling 10 million copies on Android will outweigh selling 1 million on IOS. Apple needs to innovate to stop eroding marketshare, the iPhone5's main features existed 2 years ago on Android. It's not innovation, its just copying what android had 2 years ago.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Pirks on 9/4/2012 4:32:55 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
At some point selling 10 million copies on Android will outweigh selling 1 million on IOS
I'm still patiently waiting for your prediction of RIM sale to become reality, so if you excuse me I'll be kinda cautious in believing you next one about Apple and Android, at least until your first one about RIM turns out to be true. Don't trust the prophet until you see that his predictions are real deal, not a usual bullshit. That's my motto. You're yet to pass this test retro.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 4:59:12 PM , Rating: 2
Your "test" is not worthy of my submission. I don't need to show you anything when it comes to RIM. I will Let RIM's last two (and next two) quarterly reports speak for themselfes. I was 100% right all along, and you were 100% wrong. Its not at all prophetic, its just being observant. Here's another simple nugget of truth for you. The US debt cant go on as is forever either. It doesnt take a whole lot to see what is obvious. It does take a whole lot of denial to miss it.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Pirks on 9/4/2012 5:27:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
its just being observant
When I observe Apple's profits go down and Android's profits go up - then I start thinking about market share. Not before.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 6:12:12 PM , Rating: 2
Carnak says 2013 will be clearly showing the beginnnings of the shift.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Pirks on 9/4/2012 7:45:07 PM , Rating: 2
Who's Carnak?


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 9:23:06 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Good luck Apple...
By Pirks on 9/4/2012 9:35:36 PM , Rating: 2
This Carnak the Magnificient guy must be some kind of meme I have no idea about. Still greek to me :)


RE: Good luck Apple...
By fteoath64 on 9/5/2012 2:06:16 AM , Rating: 2
You pretty much concluded that Apple's advantage curve is on the way down and many can see that. The fact that Android has come of age and surpassed iOS makes it compelling for alternatives with more hardware choices and price points compared to a single product platform. The diversity is missing in Apple's offering and is biting them now. One would be able to see that in the iPad Mini's success when that is launched next month. It will outsell the original iPad by 3X volume for sure. That form-factor is "most wanted" in the market and Apple's ignorance has left that market wide open for too long.
For many, on the phone market, iOS has already been "last years tech". Looking forward to JellyBean is the mantra for most Android users.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Jeffk464 on 9/4/2012 2:52:07 PM , Rating: 2
Apple was the first to put everything together in a nice very usable package. But the race was on when they did it, MS previously released tablets, palm combined PDA's and phones, etc.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By BifurcatedBoat on 9/4/2012 8:08:55 PM , Rating: 1
They did innovate, but they didn't invent. There's a difference, especially when it comes to patents.

If Apple wasn't a company based on copying everything, right down to their company name (copied from Apple Corps), then I might be more sympathetic to their position.

This company was all about copying though. That was their MO for decades. Copy, take ideas, whatever needs to be done, just do it, and settle the lawsuits with whoever you stepped on later. It's the hypocrisy that's most irritating.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By GotThumbs on 9/5/2012 3:33:21 PM , Rating: 2
Market share not as much an issue as you may think.

Just try and leave Apple and take your content with you.

Divorcing Apple will cost you a bundle in lost content.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By AmbroseAthan on 9/4/2012 1:42:55 PM , Rating: 2
That's what you expected as a consumer, bigger screens to cause a huge increase in app development for Android or profit for the manufacturer? You are a strange consumer.

I expected a bigger screen which would be easier and clearer to see, plus easier to work with being I have bigger hands (I am 6'2"). I got exactly what I expected with a bigger screen phone.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 1:48:08 PM , Rating: 2
You have to excuse Tony. He isn't really in sync with reality. He's a die hard Apple fan that really doesn't know anything outside of that bubble.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Reclaimer77 on 9/4/2012 1:46:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
given that iOS has more apps, more developers, more developer revenues, and more profit for the handset maker than Android.


Which means what to the consumer, the end user exactly? Profits and developer revenue's is just an argument for fanbois. The Android app market has more than caught up, all the "killer" Apps are available for it. In fact simply due to Apple's closed garden approach, there are apps for Android that let you do things iPhone users never could.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 1:49:50 PM , Rating: 2
"Which means what to the consumer, the end user exactly? Profits and developer revenue's is just an argument for fanbois."

They gotta hold on to what they got and milk it. The list of IOS advantages is really small these days. It's pretty much only app/dev support that even that gap is shrinking.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By Tony Swash on 9/4/12, Rating: -1
RE: Good luck Apple...
By elleehswon on 9/4/2012 2:42:43 PM , Rating: 2
99.9%% of what's on any app store is complete garbage(chrome, google play, apple app store, webos app store, amazon app store). Anyone that says otherwise is completely high. each of those app stores could more than survive on having just 1000, but 1000 good apps if you junked all the other apps.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By lyeoh on 9/4/2012 2:49:34 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I will pass on your wishes of good luck and your advice the next time I meet up with Tim Cook to pick up my secret payments from Apple. Shit! I didn't mean to give that away!


If you're really one of those Apple Fan/Cultist, you pay Apple. Not the other way around.

I guess you're holding it wrong or something ;).


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 2:52:25 PM , Rating: 2
I didnt say "doomed" - I said they need to innovate or their marketshare will continue to erode. I notice in all these conversations, and in all your subject changing debates, no-where do you disagree that Apple's pace of innovations has slowed to a halt. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. The biggest features of the iPhone 5 are features android had 2 years ago(4 inch screen and 4G). You are also as aware as I am that IOS6 hardly a bump from IOS3.

This I dont get... With all that $$$, you would think that Apple would really pour it into R&D. They could really oush the industry forward but they are just fluttering.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By momorere on 9/4/2012 2:57:54 PM , Rating: 2
According to Tony in another thread, crApple has been playing R&D for the entire industry for years now. Of course, just like posts geared towards you, he either changed the subject or didn't post any further on the thread as he knew he had been proved wrong YET AGAIN. It's sad that he fails to see this although we know he truly does but doesn't what to acknowledge it. Typical iSheep.


RE: Good luck Apple...
By retrospooty on 9/4/2012 3:05:58 PM , Rating: 2
"Of course, just like posts geared towards you, he either changed the subject or didn't post any further on the thread as he knew he had been proved wrong YET AGAIN"

Yes, this is typical Tony behavior. Once you post something that shuts him down, he stops responding entirely. This way he can come back a week later and post the same drivel as if he isn't aware. The funny thing is he thinks no-one notices.


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