backtop


Print 112 comment(s) - last by 91TTZ.. on Sep 6 at 11:52 AM

Infiniti will turn to turbocharged 4- and 6-cylinder engines, hybrids, full electrics

"And another one gone, and another one gone / Another one bites the dust"
 
Well, it looks as though the recently approved CAFE standards that aim to increase automobile fuel economy to 54.5mpg by 2025 have claimed another victim. Infiniti currently has V8 engine options available in its M luxury sedan, FX crossover, and QX sport utility vehicles, but that likely won't be the case in future iterations of those vehicles.
 
According to a report by AutoGuide, increasingly stringent fuel economy and emissions regulations mean that V8 engines are no longer on the table for Infiniti vehicles. V8 engines have traditionally been available in luxury vehicles as a symbol of prestige and power, but Infiniti will look to new ways to bring powerful engines to its lineup while still keeping fuel economy in check.
 
“I don’t think any car that is on Infiniti drawing boards from here onwards we should expect a V8 to be included in that plan,” Johan de Nysschen, Infiniti's global president.
 
Infiniti's 5.0-liter V8 produces 385hp, its 5.5-liter V8 produces 420hp, and its 5.6-liter V8 (truck-based) produces 400hp.


Infiniti to say good-bye to V8 engines
 
There are numerous directions that Infiniti can take with the absence of a V8 engine. Automakers like Ford already have twin-turbocharged V6 engines that develop 365hp while still delivering respectable fuel economy. Even Hyundai is rumored to be getting in on the action with a twin-turbocharged 3.3-liter V6 which generates 395hp.
 
For entry-level and mid-range models will also see a shift in available engines as well. Infiniti's current workhorse engine is the 3.7-liter “VQ” V6, but Nissan is also working on a turbocharged four-cylinder engine to deliver comparable power and vastly improved fuel economy.
 
Other options for Infiniti include fully electric vehicles (like the LE Concept) and additional hybrid models (we’re hoping that Infiniti delivers a production version of the Emerg-E).
 
Infiniti isn't the only luxury maker to drop a V8 engine from its lineup. When Lexus redesigned its mid-range GS sedan, it dropped the 4.6-liter V8 engine option and instead launched the vehicle with a 3.5-liter V6 and a 3.5-liter V6/performance hybrid model for those that want the power of a V8.

Source: AutoGuide



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Wait a minute
By Samus on 9/4/2012 1:33:17 AM , Rating: 5
How are Infiniti and consumers a victim of CAFE? Basically Infiniti is going to save costs using less materials and shipping less weight to the United States, and consumers are going to get better fuel economy with similar, if not better, performance.

I don't think CAFE is claiming any victims here, especially this early in the timeline. Infiniti sales have been lagging for years, and they have among the lowest fuel economy of any V8 luxury-class (only Jaguar/Land Rover are worse in the WT25 sales) and consumers have clearly spoken. The best selling luxury cars are typically I4, V6 or I6, those being Audi A3/A4 2.0T, Mercedes C-class (the 3.5 M112 is their best selling engine) and obvious BMW's fleet of I6's.

Yes, most manufactures offer V8's, but Infiniti/Nissan's aging VQ engine's (3.5/3.7l) are based on a 25-year old design and simply can't compete. Infiniti has taken the correct approach in deciding NOT to develope a whole new V8 engine for mass production and instead focus on what most other manufactures are doing, that is, developing small, powerful, economical and fuel efficient turbo-charged engines. Exhaust is free power, and if Chrysler hadn't completely destroyed the reputation of turbocharging in the 80's and early 90's by poorly implementing them (usually without liquid cooling, often causing oil to overheat blowing headgaskets or various seals in the turbo housing failing, and no implementation of a 'turbo timer' or cool-down system which is required when not running liquid cooling...ugg, the American market wouldn't be 20-years behind the rest of the world if their wasn't an alkali taste in our mouths every time we heard the word Turbo and immediately associated it with greatly increased maintenance costs.

Anyway, this is going off-topic. Infiniti is making the right move. Other manufactures will follow suit once their V8 technology has dried up. I have a stroker motor in my old Mercury Capri and I appriciate V8's as much as the next gearhead, but if I were buying a new luxury or new sports car, I'd definately take a supercharged/turbocharged I4/V6 over any V8. Just gettin' with the times. V8's are mostly unneccessary now.




RE: Wait a minute
By Samus on 9/4/2012 1:43:20 AM , Rating: 2
Damn lack of an edit button, those VQ engines I listed should be 5.0/5.6l, I was thinking of the V6's, which I might add are based of a 30+ year old DOHC design (obviously having since gone all aluminum with MPFI, but still not GDI) but the casting and cam runners are identical to those from the 80's originally developed out of the Datsun era.

I think it's safe to say Nissan/Infiniti have milked their "flagship" V8's as long as Ford and Chevy milked the 302/350cid, the difference being Ford and Chevy designs were older, so by todays standards definately wouldn't sell in the free market.


RE: Wait a minute
By Pneumothorax on 9/4/2012 2:30:46 AM , Rating: 3
A naturally aspirated well-tuned v8 will be inherently smoother, much quicker throttle response (still haven't driven a 'lag-free' turbo, AND SOUNDS A WHOLE LOT BETTER than a V6! F!@# CAFE and other BS, if a consumer can afford the $8/gal gas on a 18MPG, then LET HIM. Don't give the BS that 'CAFE' isn't mandatory, by forcing really high fines on non-compliant automakers, they're basically forcing them. Kind of like the BS supreme court decision where gov can basically tax/fee you do death to force you to do anything they want.


RE: Wait a minute
By Jeffk464 on 9/4/2012 2:37:03 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you they made the right decision to focus on V6's but I also think you should get enough power out of a modern naturally aspirated V6 to provide sporty power to all but the most absurdly overweight sedan.


RE: Wait a minute
By 91TTZ on 9/5/2012 11:42:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I was thinking of the V6's, which I might add are based of a 30+ year old DOHC design (obviously having since gone all aluminum with MPFI, but still not GDI) but the casting and cam runners are identical to those from the 80's originally developed out of the Datsun era.


This is completely and entirely untrue. The VQ engines share hardly anything at all with the older VG V6s that you're referring to. I had a 1986 300ZX Turbo with a VG30ET and I currently have a 1991 300ZX Twin Turbo with a VG30DETT in it. Even those VG engines aren't that similar. The older VG is a SOHC engine, not DOHC. Even aside from the heads, the engine blocks are different. You can't put DOHC heads on the SOHC block, the oil and coolant passages don't line up. The only thing that's similar is the crank, and even that requires modification.

And moving past the VG engines, the VQ engines are even more dissimilar. I can't put any part from a VQ V6 onto my VG. The crank's different, connecting rods are different, pistons are different, heads are different, exhaust manifolds are different, intake manifolds are different- it's an entirely new design.


RE: Wait a minute
By sorry dog on 9/4/2012 11:25:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't think CAFE is claiming any victims here


Negative ghostrider.

The cars aren't necessarily made with less material, just lighter material like aluminum or fiber which is more expensive to buy and needs more labor to assemble.

All of the above = more expensive


RE: Wait a minute
By Samus on 9/6/2012 12:16:49 AM , Rating: 2
Negative starbuck,

I can count at least two cylinders that won't make the bill of materials and weight list when shipping a V6/I6 over a V8.

As far as the VG/VX/VQ engine relation arguement is concerned, yes, they share quite a lot. Nissan hasn't retooled their equipment for decades, which is why they continue to manufacture the same displacement across the board in the North American market. Sure, the technology might be different (I'm sure they've added a knock sensor here and a cam position sensor there...) but they are far behind even Ford/GM/Chrysler who have all completely retooled their entire engine assembly process by now. Ford discontinued the 302 in 2001, and a 289 in 2010, based off of 60's and 80's technology respectively. Nissan is doing the same here, the difference is they are chosing not to make a V8 because A) it isn't neccessary in a luxury sedan/SUV B) they don't make a muscle car to put it in and C) their heavy duty pickup (Titan) is a sales joke ranking the lowest selling large pickup in the US market: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/02/january-2012-...

They don't need a V8. This isn't CAFE's doing and is purely sensationalized, anti-government drama from the DT author.


RE: Wait a minute
By 91TTZ on 9/6/2012 11:52:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I can count at least two cylinders that won't make the bill of materials and weight list when shipping a V6/I6 over a V8.


Your reasoning is completely flawed. You mention that Nissan is saving money and weight by going with a V6/I6, but Nissan's V6s and I6s are very stout. The Nissan 2.0 liter I6 from the Z31 weighs more than the 7 liter V8 that Chevy makes. The GTR's 3.8 liter V6 weighs almost 150 lbs more than the 7 liter LS7. How is Nissan saving money on shipping less weight when the engine they are shipping is actually heavier? Instead of shipping a lightweight V8 they're shipping a very heavy V6.

quote:
As far as the VG/VX/VQ engine relation arguement is concerned, yes, they share quite a lot. Nissan hasn't retooled their equipment for decades, which is why they continue to manufacture the same displacement across the board in the North American market.


Wrong. Dead wrong. The VG and VQ engines do NOT share quite a lot. In fact they're entirely different. I'd like you to find me a single internal engine part that can be swapped from a VQ engine to a VG engine.

The block is completely different and the engine mount location is different.
The crankshaft is different
The connecting rods are different
The pistons are different
The oil pump is different
The heads are different
The valves are different
The camshafts are different
The lifters are different
The intake manifold is different
The exhaust manifold is different


RE: Wait a minute
By 91TTZ on 9/5/2012 11:54:43 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Infiniti sales have been lagging for years, and they have among the lowest fuel economy of any V8 luxury-class (only Jaguar/Land Rover are worse in the WT25 sales) and consumers have clearly spoken. The best selling luxury cars are typically I4, V6 or I6, those being Audi A3/A4 2.0T, Mercedes C-class (the 3.5 M112 is their best selling engine) and obvious BMW's fleet of I6's.


As I pointed out in another post, Infinity's V8 powered Q45 got the same gas mileage as their V6 powered G35, and produced more power.

quote:
Infiniti has taken the correct approach in deciding NOT to develope a whole new V8 engine for mass production and instead focus on what most other manufactures are doing, that is, developing small, powerful, economical and fuel efficient turbo-charged engines.


Turbocharged engines are not necessarily more economical or fuel efficient. They tend to get about the same fuel economy as a larger naturally aspirated engine that produces the same power.

quote:
Exhaust is free power, and if Chrysler hadn't completely destroyed the reputation of turbocharging in the 80's and early 90's by poorly implementing them (usually without liquid cooling, often causing oil to overheat blowing headgaskets or various seals in the turbo housing failing, and no implementation of a 'turbo timer' or cool-down system which is required when not running liquid cooling


Exhaust isn't free power. You're restricting the exhaust by driving the turbine. Also, in order to run forced induction you need to run a lower compression ratio which decreases fuel economy.

Also, Chrysler's turbo engine from the late 80's/early 90's WAS water cooled.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/22t.html

"The compressor itself was aluminum, driven by a turbine wheel in an iron housing with liquid-cooled bearings. The shaft bearing on the exhaust housing side was water-cooled, to reduce hot shutdown bearing failures."


RE: Wait a minute
By 91TTZ on 9/5/2012 12:22:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Basically Infiniti is going to save costs using less materials and shipping less weight to the United States, and consumers are going to get better fuel economy with similar, if not better, performance.


How are they going to save weight? My Nissan 3.0L TT V6 weighs more than a Nissan V8.

Nissan's new 3.8L TT V6 from the Skyline weighs more than a more than a 7.0L V8 from the Corvette. And it gets worse fuel economy.

Nissan VR38DETT
3.8 liters
weight: 600 lbs.

Nissan RB20 (inline 6)
2.0 liters
weight: 460 lbs

Chevy LS7
7.0 liters
weight: 458 lbs.


"Well, we didn't have anyone in line that got shot waiting for our system." -- Nintendo of America Vice President Perrin Kaplan














botimage
Copyright 2014 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki