quote: Where do you get off calling me a creationist?
quote: And please explain to me how an unconscious human being is different than a human being that is not or never has been conscious, other than your desire to kill the latter human being.
quote: Because the former was human at some point. The embryo was never human. It doesn't matter as Roe v. Wade will NEVER be overturned in this country, the population of your ilk is in decline.
quote: Given that the only good creationist is a dead one
quote: So where do you stand regarding conception of an embryo by forcible means: rape, incest, etc? Would you allow a woman to abort the embryo; what about your sister, mother or yourself in that situation?
quote: Given what you've stated so far, a life in all forms deserves protection under the law no matter what state
quote: It's modern religious doctrine that stipulates an embryo of any age deserves legal protection no matter the case.
quote: I'd certainly entertain death by acid bath or dismemberment for the rapist, but certainly not for the innocent human being conceived as a result of any rape. I wouldn't kill my neighbor's kid because his father beat up his mother, would you?
quote: Rape/incest doesn't change the equation that killing an innocent human being is wrong. It may make the situation more psychologically complex, but it doesn't change anything regarding the fetus.
quote: The pro-life position can be compatible with capital punishment, as it removes all risk that a murder may kill again. I've stated that it is wrong to kill innocent humans, I'd think that most people in most countries will agree with that statement. So no, all human life doesn't deserve protection. All innocent human life does.
quote: The truth is that a human being is fair game to kill as long as the mother decides it within the first X month(s) of it's life. X varies by country.
quote: The only differences between any zygote and you are 4 things: 1 Size, 2. Level of development, 3. Environment, and 4. Dependency.
quote: 1. They are small, you are large. But I'm also larger, and more biologically complex than my nephew, who is 2. Does that make him less human than me?
quote: 2. I can reproduce, my nephew cannot. Is he less human because he isn't at my level of development?
quote: 3. Any fetus cannot survive outside of the womb. Yet as far as I know, my environment has no bearing on the definition of me being a human.
quote: 4. Fetuses are totally dependent on someone else for their survival. So are newborn babies. So are people in comas. Does a person's physical dependency make them less human that a physically independent human?
quote: Please point out my religious doctrine in any of the above positions. I'm really interested to see where my dogma closes my mind. Seriously.
quote: If the fetus is not at a stage where it could live outside of the womb without "life support" from the mother or a machine then it is not alive.
quote: Until the human can live without the support of the mother and without some artificial device it is not alive
quote: It cannot live without the support of it's mother/machine, so by the definition you gave it is not alive.
quote: Also note I am not claiming to be an arbiter of that, you are inserting language into my posts I didn't use and attacking your own language, which is a straw-man fallacy.
quote: An unwanted child is better off alive then dead.
quote: I agree that some people are not good parents and don't want their children, or mistreat them throughout the child's life. However that doesn't justify killing the child.
quote: What does our composition have to do with absolutely anything? You are factually biologically ALIVE when as soon as you are conceived.
quote: Many people cannot effectively care for themselves let alone another human - so if a few of these inept would-be mothers are SMART enough to acknowledge this and decide to end a pregnancy before it spawns a problem
quote: Furthermore, whether or not it is alive is irrelevant. To humans, the value of life is evaluated on a sliding scale based on relatively ambiguous observations and perceptions. An embryo falls below insects on this scale because an insect is, at least, a fully developed creature.
quote: You said that human life begins when the human in question can survive without the environment provided by the mother's body.
quote: No one agrees that killing a human being not convicted of any crime is moral. It is rather difficult for a fetus to commit a crime.
quote: You are accusing me of judging the value of human life, then you claim that you know what constitutes a life quality index below which death is preferable.
quote: Actually a human being at any stage of it's development is still biologically a human being. Life is a continous process that begins at conception and ends at death
quote: Plopping an embryo on a table and have someone observe it is entirely beside the point. We are not discussing the appearance of a human being, we are talking about what biologically constitutes a human being. Nice red herring.
quote: Actually, whether someone is alive or not is very relevant. Which humans are worth less than others by your ambiguous observations and perceptions? I believe that any member of the species homo sapiens is worth as much as any other. I'm curious to hear which ones you ambiguously perceive to be worth less than others.
quote: The difference between a car and it's parts and a human at it's zygote stage and adult stage is that the car parts DO NOT SELF ASSEMBLE INTO A CAR.
quote: The fact that the difference between the zygote and toddler stage of a human being is 'irrelevant' is only so to one who hasn't the foggiest idea that a continuum has no breaks
quote: Does incomplete assembly mean non-human? I dunno, as someone born with no legs if they are human.
quote: Folks see killing retards and whatever else society deem the unfit as horrible because they can see those individuals. There is no logical difference between that and abortion, so I'm starting to think you are indeed a moral freak.
quote: If you take me out of the environment I am designed for (and that comprises an extremely tiny % of the universe) I would cease to function.
quote: There is absolutely no difference between James Cameron in a submarine at the bottom of the Marianas Trench and a human baby before its born.
quote: I'm too pro-science to be pro-choice. Except your definition is totally bunk, because you cannot prove that a zygote is a non-living organism.
quote: whether or not it's alive doesn't even matter to me because based on my "life valuation scale" it falls below insects
quote: . As I said, your subjective opinion. Not scientific fact. As cited above.
quote: We can accept that the embryo is a living thing in the fact that it has a beating heart, that it has its own genetic system within it. It’s clearly human in the sense that it’s not a gerbil, and we can recognize that it is human life… the point is not when does human life begin, but when does it really begin to matter?
quote: "The beginning of a single human life is from a biological point of view a simple and straightforward matter – the beginning is conception."
quote: "By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."
quote: "I have learned from my earliest medical education that human life begins at the time of conception."
quote: "After fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being. [It] is no longer a matter of taste or opinion...it is plain experimental evidence. Each individual has a very neat beginning, at conception."
quote: "It is incorrect to say that biological data cannot be decisive...It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception."
quote: religious idiots
quote: Human Life, as in the kind that earns the protection of law, is based around the idea of human intelligence and human consciousness. We know that these functions are rooted in the brain, therefore an undifferentiated ball of cells certainly does not qualify.
quote: There is no biological argument that a zygote deserves the same legal protections as a grown human being. The only arguments for it are based in the idea that human sperm meeting human egg create/are granted a soul, which is a purely religious argument.
quote: A plant "learns" to spread its roots out and around solid objects in order to get more water, does that relate to consciousness or intelligence? It is still considered life. An amoeba has a single cell and swims around and has a purpose, a single celled life. So how is that any different than a human baby? It isn't.
quote: Same argument, life is life no matter if it has consciousness or intelligence. A human baby uses pre-programmed instinct for the first year of its life.
quote: Human reproduction creates another human, the fact that it is life as soon as the sperm and egg meet and will become another sentient human, even though it may not be for the first few months, means its ok to kill that life?
quote: You liberals really have a twisted logic. "Save the trees and fish and puppy dogs, not the humans!" You try to sound smart and then relieve us of that belief as you type...