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New iPhone dock connector  (Source: techcrunch.com)
The new iPhone will now have a 19-pin port instead of the 30-pin port

It looks like the new iPhone's dock connector has received a makeover from past versions, cutting the number of pins from 30 to 19.

New photos and videos indicate that the new iPhone will now have a 19-pin port instead of the 30-pin port that Apple devices have traditionally offered since the third generation iPod.

According to Tech Crunch, the new 19-pin port looks similar to Apple's Thunderbolt port seen on MacBooks, but manufacturers have told the web publication that the new iPhone's pin-out will be different from Thunderbolt's.

Lots of new iPhone rumors have been circulating lately, such as videos showing the unibody casing and leaked photos presenting the longer screen and metal backplates. These leaks confirmed a few new iPhone specs, such as the relocated headphone jack and metal antenna molded into the backplates.

However, some other specs remain unclear, such as the size of the SIM card. A video showing new iPhone specs revealed a smaller SIM card holder piece, but no measurements have been released.

Source: Tech Crunch


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RE: Micro-usb
By michael2k on 6/21/2012 11:45:06 AM , Rating: 3
USB doesn't work because the Dock connector has to support analog signals; composite, VGA, component, audio-line out, and audio-line in, which USB cannot currently support, as well as the ability to supply 1.1A power, which requires either a nonstandard USB port (which Apple provides on their Macs) or a Y-shaped USB header.

So even if they did adopt USB, it would still be a proprietary cable with two heads for analog audio-video and power+data on one side and two heads for two USB ports on the other side.


RE: Micro-usb
By nafhan on 6/21/2012 12:36:52 PM , Rating: 3
Why does the dock connector need to support analog signals? By going to 19 pins instead of 30 they've already lost electrical compatibility with anything that uses the old connector. It seems like this would be a good time to make a a clean break with the analog stuff and go all digital. In fact, it seems like a micro USB3 connector would solve most of the issues you mentioned, and the rest of them could be solved by a dongle. Analog + 30 pin support could be added via a dongle that integrates a USB sound card, for instance.

Regardless of your rationalizing, I'm fairly certain that technical concerns are not a primary reason why Apple will avoid industry standards in this area.


RE: Micro-usb
By michael2k on 6/21/2012 2:05:11 PM , Rating: 2
Duh, seriously?

How do you expect the iPhone to connect to VGA, RCA, component, speaker, or mic without it?

Do you expect people to buy new TVs, projectors, speakers, etc?

People would much rather buy a $29 dongle to maintain compatibility than buy new equipment in the thousands of dollars.

The micro USB3 connector solves none of those issues because it has no analog hardware and would require a dongle that is more expensive than a simple passthrough to convert digital to analog; instead of a $29 dongle it will be a $99 dollar dongle to convert digital to analog.

So even if you discount technical concerns, there are several significant technical concerns Apple has to deal with including the price of the dongles.


RE: Micro-usb
By The Raven on 6/21/2012 2:32:25 PM , Rating: 2
Why can't they just use a composite connector like the headphones on a DS or walkman etc. Obviously that tech is not that complicated.
quote:
The Nintendo DS Headset is the official headset for the Nintendo DS. It plugs into the headset port (which is a combination of a standard 3.5mm(1/8-inch) headphone connector and a proprietary microphone connector) on the bottom of the system.

This is the problem I always had with the cable ports of the past...I just want to do one of the simple functions of the interface (charge, headphones, connect to USB port on PC, etc.) but I don't have a proprrietary connector to do it!!!


RE: Micro-usb
By The Raven on 6/21/2012 2:37:14 PM , Rating: 2
Pics for reference. And yes you can use any old 3.5mm headphones if you don't need the mic on your headset. Which is my point.

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/kabicy/V8220BL-3.jpg
http://techgage.com/reviews/gaming/nintendo/ds_lit...


RE: Micro-usb
By michael2k on 6/21/2012 5:18:26 PM , Rating: 2
They already do that:
http://www.amazon.com/Monster-iSoniTalk-Microphone...

The problem is that you can't ALSO overload that with composite video, VGA, and component video (component alone requires 3 separate channels on top of the audio components)


RE: Micro-usb
By The Raven on 6/25/2012 5:54:47 PM , Rating: 2
No no you missed my point. They can have micro usb, hdmi and whatever else they want all combined into one cable. Standard connections, unique grouping.


RE: Micro-usb
By michael2k on 6/25/2012 7:12:23 PM , Rating: 2
You're saying do something like the dock connector, but extending from a common port like micro-USB.

Then you have the problem that using one precludes the use of the other unless you have a dock adapter cable... at which point why not just use the dock cable in the first place?


RE: Micro-usb
By The Raven on 6/26/2012 2:56:01 AM , Rating: 2
No as I said (with the NDS as example) I can use any 3.5mm headphones I want. I only need the special headset if I want to use the microphone. Did you look at the picture? Your idea is not at all what I am talking about.

There are Android devices that use micro hdmi and micro usb. I don't have one (such as pictured. This is a more relevant picture lol)...
http://st2.gsmarena.com/vv/pics/htc/htc-evo-sprint...
...so I don't know if they make docks that utilize both ports, but they very well could. And it is commonplace for one to just want to simply connect their phone to show off a couple vids on their friend's tv without need for a usb connection (or a dock) or to simply charge via usb in the car where you don't need hdmi.

On the other hand I of course see where one would like to have everything connected. But my point is that you don't need a proprietary connection to do that.


RE: Micro-usb
By nafhan on 6/21/2012 3:47:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The micro USB3 connector solves none of those issues because it has no analog hardware and would require a dongle that is more expensive than a simple passthrough to convert digital to analog; instead of a $29 dongle it will be a $99 dollar dongle to convert digital to analog.
In addition to being rude, you seem to be incapable of proper reading comprehension (although, both are more funny than insulting). I specifically said something about this. However, since you're bringing up prices, USB -> 3.5mm headphone converters can be had for $5 on Amazon, and real USB sound cards can be found starting a little above the $20 range (although, the nice ones with volume control and stuff are like $50). Basically, adding analog audio to micro USB3 to 30 pin adapter wouldn't cost much.

Considering that Apple DOES sell simple pass through adapters for about $30, and they have incentive to encourage everyone to move away from the old 30 pin, $99 is a reasonable guess. However, my guess is $50-$60 as that's around the price of the active Thunderbolt adapters.
quote:
So even if you discount technical concerns, there are several significant technical concerns Apple has to deal with including the price of the dongles.
I think I know what you're trying to say here... and I'll go ahead and say you've just given a great example of why you're wrong: you feel like $30 is a reasonable price for a 19 pin pass through cable. Apple would be able to sell an active adapter at a price where they could make money, and very few users of their products would complain.

Again, they're not going to use USB3 anyway, it'll be similar, yet proprietary. The extra pins (19 instead of 11?) may even be to carry analog audio. I was merely listing a possible alternative that WOULD work, without being prohibitively expensive, while providing a full digital path and backwards compatibility.


RE: Micro-usb
By michael2k on 6/21/2012 5:24:17 PM , Rating: 2
How am I being rude?

Anyway, Dell does sell a $55 USB to VGA adapter:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.a...
(USB to VGA)

Couple that with a $90 VGA to composite/component adapter:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.a...
(High Resolution VGA to Composite / S-Video Converter)

Miniaturize it into an inline cable, cut the price in half, throw in Apple's margin, and you've got your $99 cable.

It's not like I'm making this up.


RE: Micro-usb
By nafhan on 6/21/2012 7:22:17 PM , Rating: 2
Since you'd only need to do a single level of conversion... it'd probably be something pretty similar to that USB to VGA adapter - probably a single chip, even. I also think Apple could price it however they want, and that price would have more to do with how much they want people to move away from the 30 pin vs. how much they want to avoid pissing people with lots of 30 pin peripherals off, than anything else.

Also, sorry if mistook your (sarcastic?) "duh" as rudeness, when it wasn't. Text: not the best way to concisely portray emotion :)


RE: Micro-usb
By michael2k on 6/21/2012 7:50:45 PM , Rating: 2
Ah, yes, I can see that VGA carries the same data as component video. It is composite (and specifical PAL/NTSC/SECAM) that requires a little bit of extra work.

So on top of the USB, you now need approximately a $50 dongle-cable to convert it, which is no different than the dock->composite or dock->component or dock->VGA you already have today.

The difference is that, if Apple uses USB, everyone would need to buy new cables, instead of a $30 dock adapter to make the new dock compatible with the old dock.


RE: Micro-usb
By nafhan on 6/21/2012 11:17:54 PM , Rating: 2
You're still not getting it. If Apple went with micro USB3, the cable/adapter would contain an ASIC that would output the same exact signals as the current 30 pin connector... with a 30 pin connector. You'd have USB3 on one end and 30 pin on the other. That's it.
quote:
The difference is that, if Apple uses USB, everyone would need to buy new cables, instead of a $30 dock adapter to make the new dock compatible with the old dock.
I'm not seeing where you're going with that. Everyone who upgrades to a new iDevice will need to buy new cables or a dock adapter (they'll probably get one cable for free). In my hypothetical situation those cables and connectors would be industry standard instead of proprietary. That's the only thing that would be different.


RE: Micro-usb
By michael2k on 6/21/2012 11:29:14 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, I see, instead of a $10 provided dock to USB cable, which all iPhones already ship with, you want a USB port and a straight USB cable, forcing people to buy a $60 USB to Dock adapter as opposed to a $30 Dock to Dock pass through.


RE: Micro-usb
By nafhan on 6/22/2012 8:55:38 AM , Rating: 2
I think you're missing something: you generally can't turn 19 pins into 30 with a pass through. There will already be some sort of active adapter.


RE: Micro-usb
By michael2k on 6/22/2012 3:17:51 PM , Rating: 2
You can if you're dropping unused pins.

http://pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod_pinout.shtm...

You can see several redundant unnecessary pins:
19, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 29, & 30 are for FireWire, which means 30 down to 22.

14 & 17 are reserved, but if unused can be dropped to bring you down to 20.

1, 2, 15, and 16 are all GND and probably can be reduced by one (and if 14 & 17 are used, maybe even three) to bring you down to 19 pins. 7 is unknown, and may also be expendable.

You might also be able to "EOL" old iPod lines such as 12 & 13.

So, actually, yes, you can turn 19 pins into 30 in this case.

Apple has stopped supporting Firewire since the 3G:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1476


RE: Micro-usb
By aliasfox on 6/22/2012 4:04:14 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder why Firewire's 8-pin when the plug was only 6 pin (4 for data, 2 for power).

But yes. Completely getting rid of the original Firewire pins would get Apple most of the way to 19 pins.


RE: Micro-usb
By michael2k on 6/22/2012 5:24:23 PM , Rating: 2
4 pins for power and ground, 4 pins for data.

Firewire, being a much more robust connector, probably only had 2 pins for power and ground.


RE: Micro-usb
By nafhan on 6/23/2012 12:25:04 AM , Rating: 2
Very nice research! And, exactly why I included the word "generally" :) Although, technically, you've described a 19 pin to 19 pin connector since you are obsoleting 11 of the 30 pins. If your sources are correct (not going to take the time to research myself), I believe there's a pretty good chance what you are describing may be exactly how the new 19 pin connector will work - and you'll be charged $30 to get an adapter for it (if you need one).

Still, doesn't change my mind, I feel fairly certain that if they had incentive to do so, they could sell a Micro USB3 to 30 pin connector for whatever price they wanted.


"Intel is investing heavily (think gazillions of dollars and bazillions of engineering man hours) in resources to create an Intel host controllers spec in order to speed time to market of the USB 3.0 technology." -- Intel blogger Nick Knupffer











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