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A US Representative has called for the ban of Chinese-manufactured computers for classified work, but where will he find such machines?

DailyTech previously reported that the US government had planned to spend roughly $13M USD to buy new computer systems from Lenovo. Some government voices were concerned that because the Chinese government owns a portion of Lenovo, the computer systems would pose a security risk to the US.

Republican Representative Frank Wolf then issued a statement to reporters that no government agency doing classified work should use computers manufacturered by a Chinese company or made outside of the US. However, most computer manufacturers are off-shoring manufacturing works to other countries.

Below is a list of the top dozen or so notebook companies in the US with details on where the components are currently manufactured.

Notebook OEM Quick Reference
Brand
OEM Company
Place of Manufacture
Acer (Taiwan)
ECS-Tatung (Taiwan)
Shenzhen, China
Apple (USA)
Compal (Taiwan)
Hon Hai (Taiwan)
Quanta (Taiwan)
Shenzhen, China
Shanghani, China
Songjiang, China
ASUS (Taiwan)
ASUS (Taiwan)
Suzhou, China
Averatec (USA)
Microstar International (Taiwan)
Kushan, China
Dell (USA)
ASUS (Taiwan)
Compal (Taiwan)
Hon Hai (Taiwan)
Quanta (Taiwan)
Shuzhou, China
Shenzhen, China
Shanghani, China
Songjiang, China
Xiamen, China
Fujitsu (Japan)
Quanta (Taiwan)
Shanghani, China
Songjiang, China
Gateway (USA)
ECS-Tatung (Taiwan)
Quanta (Taiwan)
Shenzhen, China
Shanghani, China
Songjiang, China
Hewlett-Packard (USA)
ASUS (Taiwan)
ECS-Tatung (Taiwan)
Hon Hai (Taiwan)
Quanta (Taiwan)
Suzhou, China
Shenzhen, China
Shanghani, China
Songjiang, China
Lenovo (China)
ECS-Tatung (Taiwan)
Legend (China)
Shanghai, China
Shenzhen, China
Sony (Japan)
Hon Hai (Taiwan)
Shenzhen, China
Toshiba (Japan)
Compal (Taiwan)
Inventec (Taiwan)
Toshiba (Japan)
Shanghai, China
Hangzhou, China

Although virtually all OEM component manufacturers for laptops are based in Taiwan, the factories themselves are located in China.  Just like in the US, it is cheaper to manufacture components in mainland China.  Toshiba, one of the last manufacturing giants in Japan, has even moved its entire notebook manufacturing facilities to China. 

Quanta remained one of the last companies to keep some of its large-scale manufacturing in Taiwan.  However, in 2004 the Quanta facilities in Taiwan were closed in favor of Chinese facilities.  Compal, one of the largest notebook manufactures in the world, prides itself as being one of the first Taiwanese companies to bring its supply and manufacture chain to China.  The last Taiwanese notebook facility closed its doors in September of 2005 when FIC closed its doors for the last time. 
 
Until recently, Taiwanese companies were prevented from owning facilities in mainland China by the Taiwanese government.  To skirt around this issue, almost every manufacturing company sets up factories on the mainland, but each factory is its own private Chinese company.  Even the strong Taiwanese semiconductor foundries are investing in facilities in China, though the Taiwanese government has allowed TSMC to keep its upcoming $900M USD facility under the TSM corporate umbrella.

The fact of the matter is, it is virtually impossible to manufacture PC components these days without components that are made in China.  Even up until last year, it was possible to buy PCs and notebooks that were at least assembled in Taiwan, but even then the mainboards were still constructed in China.  Lenovo may be the only major PC supplier that is a Chinese state-owned enterprise, but considering how closely PC component manufacturers already work in China, it's difficult to single the company out.

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what's wrong with China ?
By vxmqzz on 5/21/2006 6:17:36 PM , Rating: 2
Is US and China at war or something ?




RE: what's wrong with China ?
By shabby on 5/21/2006 6:27:23 PM , Rating: 2
If they're hiding oil, we will be.


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By biohzrd on 5/21/2006 6:31:50 PM , Rating: 2
Does communism ring a bell?


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By ahkey on 5/21/2006 6:36:08 PM , Rating: 2
Just another schizophrenic American politician attempting to make an issue out of nothing, or perhaps a stepping-block to proposing a deal with some unnamed small-scale American company that's bought him off.

Either way, shouldn't the intended blame for security issues fall on the OS programmers, or those who design the firewalls and antivirus apps?


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By Missing Ghost on 5/21/2006 10:42:14 PM , Rating: 2
hum, sorry, but what was the problem with communism and USA? I don't know a lot about this part of the history....Does USA hate communism or something? And if yes, why?


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By peternelson on 5/21/2006 6:36:50 PM , Rating: 3
I think for some reason many Americans seem to view "Communism" as a big threat or "the enemy". Yes they want to buy oil too which will push prices up, but don't you think the Chinese have as much right to buy oil as anyone else who wants it?

Americans formerly hated the Russians (again political propaganda against communism) and now they are less of a threat they hate the Chinese for the same reasons. There are other threats of course like militant Islamic terrorists and middle east leaders etc.

I welcome changes in China eg on human rights, but they are too important players in the global economy to simply ignore. Many of my friends are Chinese and I have to say I like a lot of the motherboards and chips made in the far east.

On that point I hope the USA were'nt planning to buy any Intel Core2 chips, because they were DESIGNED IN ISRAEL.

Oh yes Israel, that very stable country. No risks of having the R&D centre blown up there then. And not controversial either like stealing land, building walls to separate people from their jobs, and shooting civilians arbitrarily.

Get real, the US economy is built on trading with other nations (often to their own advantage). In my view the US would do better to reduce its massive debt burdens because in a couple of decades the world will be a very different place, and debt and interest may be a crippling burden when competing with countries that haven't built up any.

I think if the government want to buy any stuff they should sweep them for bugs (by disassembly) before starting doing secrets on them.


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By wuZheng on 5/21/2006 6:39:54 PM , Rating: 2
Ahhh, lol, damn you posted a little ahead of me x)


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By bob661 on 5/21/2006 11:40:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think for some reason many Americans seem to view "Communism" as a big threat or "the enemy".
The Soviet Union that was a threat not communism but Americans (with the help of politicians) equated the two. China got grouped in there because they were communist and had made some threating remarks from time to time. It was the way things were during the cold war and some people haven't forgotten it.


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By Eris23007 on 5/22/2006 9:08:37 PM , Rating: 2

To suggest that China has simply "made threatening remarks" and nothing more completely ignores the Korean War. Would have been over very quickly if not for Chinese intervention. I certainly haven't forgotten that...

...but that doesn't mean China is the same sort of threat as was the USSR. They are clearly a threat (as shown by the large number of missiles they possess, pointed at the U.S., Taiwan, Japan, and other such places), but they are a threat of a different type than was the USSR..


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By RogueSpear on 5/22/2006 8:45:41 AM , Rating: 2
Comparing Israel and China is beyond ignorant, and for so many reasons. I'm not even going to bother arguing your points because it won't have any impact anyway. But if you can't see how specious an argument that is, then you are truly a lost cause.


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By wuZheng on 5/21/2006 6:38:48 PM , Rating: 3
No, its just that Americans are brainwashed into thinking that Communism is the pure evil of the world. Technically it isn't because its just an ideal spawned from the thoughts of a guy named Marx. However, Communism doesn't WORK in human society because of that little fact, we're human, we're not perfect, Communism requires perfect people to operate the way it should. Thats not going to happen. On the other hand however, you have the US, huge national pride/ego/patriotism/etc... coupled with an aggressive foregin policy and the most advanced, mechanized, and technologically superior army in the world, its hard to see (from outside the US) how the US is any better than China.


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By bob661 on 5/21/2006 11:43:31 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
No, its just that Americans are brainwashed into thinking that Communism is the pure evil of the world.
Nope. People (not just Americans) saw the Soviet Union as another third reich and the Chinese, at the time, made no efforts to distance themselves from that mentality. And what I mean by mentality is the "rule the world" mentality.


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By peternelson on 5/22/2006 2:55:01 AM , Rating: 2

Well maybe Americans saw it that way.

Right now a lot of countries (particularly Islamic ones) have similar opinions of the US actions ie foreign policy interventions like invading countries etc.

There are two sides to every story. I don't think either the Russians, Chinese, or Americans are whiter than white, but they're not totally evil either.


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By bob661 on 5/22/2006 7:24:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well maybe Americans saw it that way
Wasn't just Americans bro. The Soviet Union was a threat to Europe as well as America. We didn't live in a glass bowl back then. Read some history on the cold war.


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By blackmetalegg on 5/22/2006 4:34:30 PM , Rating: 2
I won't be surprised if you are one of the countless Chinese who grew up being brainwashed by the communist gov't. Go ask any Chinese who was old enough to know what the Chinese gov't really did before the media blackout/lockdown/censorship and total brainwash, and there's little doubt they'll tell you how great it is to not have to be controlled by their old gov't.

Before you go assume I'm an American who's brainwashed, I'm NOT. Media bombardment/skew in USA is NOT the same as what they did/do in China. If you can't tell the difference then there's no point in wasting my words.


RE: what's wrong with China ?
By Griswold on 5/22/2006 7:33:38 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Is US and China at war or something ?


Not yet.


As if we needed more reasons...
By killerroach on 5/21/2006 5:39:47 PM , Rating: 4
...to show us why politicians and technology don't mix. They're playing to people's worst fears in the interest of scoring political points prior to the 2006 election, even when, more than likely, none of this will make much of a difference in the long haul. American companies haven't had much of a presence in the consumer electronics manufacturing business in a long time now, and the reason is simple: unless we go to completely automated processes (which draw the ire of big labor in this country), we simply cannot compete with a lot of the rest of the world in terms of manufacturing costs. All this ends up being is a new way for the genius squad in the United States Congress to waste more taxpayer dollars for little, if any, benefit.




RE: Deleted thread
By clementlim on 5/21/2006 8:37:33 PM , Rating: 2
Well, good thing his comment got deleted. That was quite offensive to lots of Chinese, not just in China. By the waty, isn't First World - Developed Cuntries; Second World - Communist Countries and Third World - Developing Countries? That means China is Second World...


RE: Deleted thread
By Knish on 5/21/2006 10:44:49 PM , Rating: 1
It didn't get deleted, it just got moderated down


RE: Deleted thread
By clementlim on 5/21/2006 11:29:45 PM , Rating: 2
It got deleted =D Found any very offensive thread here?


RE: Deleted thread
By Knish on 5/22/2006 12:41:06 AM , Rating: 2
Change your threshold to -1, it's still there.


RE: Deleted thread
By ninjit on 5/22/2006 12:56:57 AM , Rating: 2
It must have been deleted, cause my threshold is set to -1 and I don't see what you guys are talking about...


RE: Deleted thread
By Knish on 5/22/2006 1:12:38 AM , Rating: 2
or made outside of the US
By crystal clear on 5/22/2006 1:12:07 AM , Rating: 2
Note its not only China but-"or made outside of the US."

Made in the USA -Be American Buy American-I spend my at Home-Let my money go to pay for salaries of US workers.

Thats the true/correct message in short-Now you all can draw the conclusions,this way or that........




RE: or made outside of the US
By crystal clear on 5/22/2006 1:16:11 AM , Rating: 2
TYPE ERROR...
It should read- I spend my money at home.
Sorry


RE: or made outside of the US
By peternelson on 5/22/2006 2:59:42 AM , Rating: 2

If you want to have a policy of "Buy USA" then that is your decision. It keeps money circulating in YOUR economy rather than elsewhere. However the implication is that for similar goods you pay higher prices from USA than (say) China or many other sources. What you are suggesting is that irrespective of any quality or security considerations you should spend budgets in the US. Ok provided everyone agrees to the higher taxes this will entail.

But why be narrow about it. Just pass a law that government procurement MUST buy everything from US companies if they make it and can only import if there is no other supplier, irrespective of price.

That is the absurdity of this proposal.


RE: or made outside of the US
By crystal clear on 5/22/2006 3:50:54 AM , Rating: 2
Republican Representative Frank Wolf's statement from which I took the heading of my comment,says a lot of current thinking/attitude of many in the USA.
I simply drew the obvious conclusion /intention of politicians of today.Loss of jobs-from USA to India,China has become a very sensitive issue & Senators/Reps are well aware of that.They have to go back to their states to get re-elected, so they know what job losses mean & how it could backfire on them(Sen/Rep).
And ofcourse the $ is keeping low-results, costlier imports
& cheaper exports.


By ThisSpaceForRent on 5/22/2006 8:10:23 AM , Rating: 2
I think there is actually a law stating that the government can not out source services to foriegn countries unless absolutely necesary. If I remember right though, this pertained mainly to defense oriented spending.

You have to be careful about how you look at outsourcing in China though. It is my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but to actually sell your products in China they need to be made in China. This came up because the company I work for builds parts for GM, and when they came to us about doing work for their Chinese division, we were told we had to produce the parts in China. Even though it would cost us the same to ship them from the US to China, we still had to spend the money on the Chinese infrastructure to support GM. Again I could have this all screwed up so please read and discuss amongst yourselves.


RE: or made outside of the US
By Jaylllo on 5/23/2006 1:44:31 PM , Rating: 2
The only things I would buy that are made in America are fighter jets (F22 particularly), M1 Abrams tank, any carrier, nuclear sub or 1 of its 9k nuclear missles. Oh and the Chevy Corvette Z06.

The only cutting edge manufacturables are weapons of war.

I don't see what you can really buy anymore, when the country is a service based country.


Stupid labor troll and politicians
By PandaBear on 5/22/2006 12:23:36 PM , Rating: 2
Go buy all Amerian all you want, but when your made in USA crap fail (like your car) go ahead and cry because no one from the union or congress will come help you out. They will just say, your $ is not lost, they protect our country and save a fat ass from being fired.

Any respectable company nowadays build stuff outside US, the one who stay are usually too crappy to off shore and end up selling crap but rely on "made in US" logo to survive. I wouldn't buy those crap.




RE: Stupid labor troll and politicians
By geeg on 5/22/2006 1:53:28 PM , Rating: 2
There are many many electronic products (in medicine, aviation, military) that are built in the U.S.. Products built here do not have to be crappy. It is a design and quaility matter. You pay more, you get higher quality. Many electronics -both component level or system level- are designed here. Most are designed by people born outside the U.S. The designed products may be manufactured elsewhere. Afterall, it is our world isn't it?
BTW, who is ruling the U.S.? Do you think it is American people?


By jconan on 5/22/2006 2:08:02 PM , Rating: 2
It's the affluent, influential and able... i.e. major oil barons, rich entrepeneurs, corporate america with large deep pockets who can sponsor lobbyist, special interest groups represented by congress and the senate. It's not the middle class or the poor. That's the way it has been for decades and will continue to be.


RE: Stupid labor troll and politicians
By blackmetalegg on 5/22/2006 4:52:10 PM , Rating: 2
There's no such thing as panda bear. They're giant panda. That's like saying "xiongmaoxiong" which doesn't make any sense. LOL


RE: Stupid labor troll and politicians
By shadowzz on 5/22/2006 5:41:12 PM , Rating: 2
Whatever you said to me just sounded like "xiong KITTY xiong"

:(


By animedude on 5/22/2006 6:19:38 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe it means "BeatKittyBear".


Lets brake out the tin foil !!!
By Regs on 5/21/2006 7:08:00 PM , Rating: 2
They can read my brain!!!!!!!!!




RE: Lets brake out the tin foil !!!
By Regs on 5/21/2006 7:08:32 PM , Rating: 2
And they made me type 'brain' instead of 'mind'!


RE: Lets brake out the tin foil !!!
By ksherman on 5/21/2006 8:30:18 PM , Rating: 2
did you know that some group somewhere did a test (I think it was Popular Science) and they determinded that placing tin foil on your head did not infact block radio waves, but AMPLIFY their intensity ;-)

just an FYI!


RE: Lets brake out the tin foil !!!
By geeg on 5/22/2006 1:45:38 PM , Rating: 2
If the doctor covers your brain with Al foil then it is ground shielded (read electromagnetics). If they just put a foil, it acts as an antenna and it may/may not ampligy the signal.


Should be removed from office
By OCedHrt on 5/21/2006 8:39:08 PM , Rating: 2
I think a US Representative like this shuold be removed from office ASAP. Impeach on grounds of lack of qualifications.




RE: Should be removed from office
By OCedHrt on 5/21/2006 8:53:35 PM , Rating: 2
Oops, should, not shuold ;)


By mcphailvdoulton on 5/21/2006 11:57:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Impeach on grounds of lack of qualifications


you can't do that! half the House would be empty then!*gasp*


RE: Should be removed from office
By jconan on 5/24/2006 1:06:40 AM , Rating: 2
there's not much on frank wolf in wikipedia other then he was a asp fraternity member and on the house appropriations committee. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Wolf

here's his voting record ->
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/member...

based on his voting record it looks like he's for big spending on us tax dollars (military quality of life? - better golfing ranges for the echelons/elite ranks?) rather than helping to reduce the trillion $ budget deficit. as the proverb goes the rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer. he must have a cutback from some special interest group lobbying to buy instant obsolescent technology expensively without any fiduciary responsibility to taxpayers maybe from infinium ex-ceo or what. lol...

here's an interesting quote "Retailers and importers, however, say protectionist moves won't help workers. They contend that in the long run, such measures will only hurt consumers." http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walm...

maybe he should be removed from office... maybe we should put a moratorium on senate terms and congressional terms so that senators and congressmans become focused on the goals that they set out to do when they were elected and promised the voters what they would do when elected. 2 terms for the congress and 3 for the senate. otherwise they also become complacent and corrupt like abramoff or delay.


Let's be rational
By boblobla on 5/30/2006 11:52:53 PM , Rating: 2
US Representative Proposes No Chinese Computers for Classified Work




RE: Let's be rational
By boblobla on 5/30/2006 11:53:26 PM , Rating: 2
I applaud our Polish friend's post. Let's not forget that it is regular folk just like you and me that live and work in “RED CHINA”. A lot of people in the US, and in all other countries for that matter, are quick to treat a country like a single-minded entity. Americans are raised constantly bathed in negative coverage of the PRC. You can't blame a lot of American's misconceptions when all they hear on the news about China is associated with backwardness, brutality against its own people, communist threat etc. The result? Reducing a country of more than one billion people and four thousand years of rich culture into a few hateful prejudices. This happens to a lot of groups, with Middle Easterners being another prime example. It's a result of lack of perfect information, and we can do little to help it but try to understand other people better.

Now I would like to address some of the more poignant misconceptions. First of all, I am abhorred by how protectionist and hawkish people can be, like they don't even read their own posts and see the blatant unfairness.

1) Why is China singled out as an evil military threat when the US has more nuclear weapons (more advanced at that) pointed at China than does China at the US; When the US spends an order of magnitude more on its military than China; when even Japan spends more on its "self-defense force" than China - which has a border magnitudes bigger than Japan's that needs to be defended; When China has not invaded and occupied any other country in the past century, while the US has invaded and occupied two countries just in the last five years.

2) How is buying treasury bonds evil? If the US doesn't want China's money, no one is forcing them to take it. Currency policy is a difficult subject to get straight, but any US consumer vehemently hating china for its currency policy is arriving at conclusions based more on prejudices than facts. It is hippocracy in its most vile form when the very people who are enjoying record low interest rate on their houses (leading to a strong housing market that has been the single most important driver of economic growth), wear affordable clothing, or buying anything at the price they're currently enjoying, snap back at their benficiary and call them untrustworthy trade partners? Do they think that the Chinese people enjoy working for lower wages than Americans? That they enjoy saving money and buying US debt so Americans can feed their unsatiable consumer appetite beyond their means? It's ridiculous. Chinese people are hard working people just as many Americans are. They are FORCED to make concessions and work for lower wages because of unfavorable economic conditions, and that they have to feed their families and put their kids through school. They save because of traditional values in saving and denying instant gratification (something that some Americans can learn, with their almost nonexistent national savings rate). They don't do it in a evil plot to ruin the US economy, they do it so they can work for cheaper and harder and build up their country.

3)The Chinese government is no saint, I think we can all agree with that. But it is not the oppresive regime it is made up to be, remember, it is still made up of PEOPLE. China is not going to be some superpower that the news media like to blow it up to be. It is a still developing country with more problems than the US can imagine. How to feed its population. How to curb pollution while industrializing to feed its popluation. How to find energy resources for its growing need. These are legitimate concernes. People claming that Chinese demand is hiking up world raw resources prices are plain hippocrites. The US consumes disporportionately more resources than any other nation in the world, by a huge stretch. It should be more like the other way around, that the US is hiking up world oil prices. Who is to gain from all this? People hate on the poor Chinese workers trying to make ends meet when it is Exxon Mobile raking in all the profits. Does China get such a great deal when Nike and Walmart shareholders are making the money on the trade deficit due to stuff Made in China, and not the Chinese workers who don't own any equity in those companies?

Think people. No government is totally innocent, and things are not grey and white. How do you compare the recent barrage of news from the Iraq and Afghanistan of US troops slaugthering harmless civilians to the events of Tiananmen Square. They are all valid concerns that we as citizens of teh World should try to address together through rational dialogue without biased assumptions.


RE: Let's be rational
By geeg on 5/31/2006 12:03:30 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't it true that China invaded Nepal?


RE: Let's be rational
By boblobla on 6/2/2006 9:45:57 PM , Rating: 2
No. China had a border conflict with India and voluntarily withdrew after gaining some territory.


Interesting
By haelduksf on 5/23/2006 12:32:37 AM , Rating: 2
That list looks quite threatening, if you think about it. If US-Chinese relations ever get dicey, all the PRC has to do is close the doors to these plants, and the US runs out of motherboards (and most other digital hardware) within weeks.




RE: Interesting
By carage on 5/23/2006 4:09:25 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah...that argument is ironically similar to what some Taiwanese claim. If anything happens to Taiwan, the world will be out of silicon chips for months. TSMC and UMC still hold a lot of market share and their primary plants are still in Taiwan.
Unfortunately, it might hurt them more then it hurts the US. They also need $$$$ too.


RE: Interesting
By shadowzz on 5/23/2006 2:55:43 PM , Rating: 2
There are a bunch of Fabs in the US still, IBM's Fishkill, the dozen or so Intel fabs, Micron, Kingston. If there was some sort of crisis those would definitely be put to use.


Naked
By jetmox on 5/21/2006 7:41:25 PM , Rating: 2
Since most clothing is made in China, I propose that the Department of Defense not wear any clothing made in China.

You would think congress has better things to do that to propose absolutely nutty bills.






RE: Naked
By geeg on 5/22/2006 1:46:24 PM , Rating: 2
Their moms/wifes may sew some clothes..


Maybe I am stating the obvious here?
By hergieburbur on 5/21/2006 9:54:20 PM , Rating: 2
But if you exclude the list of companies our esteemed politician is worried about, who CAN the government purchase from that can supply the type of volume that $13M worth of laptops entails?

It's just more useless political rhetoric to get some media attention prior to the elections thios year.




By haelduksf on 5/23/2006 12:26:50 AM , Rating: 2
This is the government we're talking about- they'll spend $130M setting up a factory in a poor neighbourhood so they can pose with newly-employed minority workers making 100% american laptops at 1000% the price of their Chinese counterparts.


basic grammar correction
By yacoub on 5/22/2006 7:52:12 AM , Rating: 2
"A US Representative has called for the ban of Chinese-manufactured computers for classified work, but where will he find such machines?"

You mean where will he find machines OTHER THAN ones made in China. "such machines" in that sentence as it is currently worded means "Chinese-manufactured computers".




RE: basic grammar correction
By PT2006 on 5/22/2006 10:04:54 AM , Rating: 2
I took it as sarcasm


By Morpth on 5/22/2006 11:03:51 AM , Rating: 2
For starters China; the Chinese Gov't; doesn't let their currency float according to Market indicators. This keeps their currency's worth far below its true value and thus its cheaper to do business their rather than almost anywhere else.

Second, for the US, we have allowed China to purchase our debt in the form of Treasury Bills. This allows China to hold us by the short hairs and threaten us. What's the threat? That's easy. They sell the T-bills and that forces our influationary rate into the upper atomosphere. See America sold a bit over 30 Billions dollars worth of debt to China.

Third, how can a civilized people do business with a country that threatens you by using your own debt against you? Smart, yes...very sneaky. Heck, if I was a country it would sound like a good enconomic strategy for me to deploy, but as I am an American citizen, this is not good for us.

Fourth, Because we are in this sticky international predicament, the US will continue to do business in China. This is eventually degrade us as a whole, but not because we manufacture computers and components over there, but because we transfering jobs that we knew how to do over here. Where will the tax base come from when the wealthy no longer pay their fair share and the poor can not afford to give blood from a stone.

Just listen to any news program about the Gobalization of America and the shifting paradigms of the new world.

*Stepping down from my soapbox*




By InternetGeek on 5/22/2006 11:57:23 AM , Rating: 2
Negotiations are only realistic when you have a good leverage on the other side. Remember that in these days you can no longer separete politics and economics.


Of Conspracies and Hatred
By carage on 5/22/2006 10:00:56 PM , Rating: 2
1. Perhaps the representative also read Tom Clancy's "The Bear & The Dragon". The last time I talked to some "computer experts" (aka CS grads), the conclusion is the idea about the spyware is farfetched but not impossible. Regardless of where the computer came from, the departments using them should do a clean sweep on them before actual operation. I heard it is probable that if some countries were devious enough they could embed a hardware keystroke recorder onto the motherboard without anyone really knowing what that chip is supposed to do.
2. Well, I guess China is now known as "The Enemy". It's true they don't seem to be as threatening as some suicidal religiouis zealots at the moment, but at least the Middle East isn't showing the signs of becoming a superpower anytime soon (Thanks to the arbitrary boundary lines carved out by the European colonial powers) They have each other to worry about. China is poised to become a power that could go toe-to-toe to US, that is what USA should worry about.
3. If we were to talk about propaganda and hatred, I think the US falls far behind the ChiComm in terms of "education". The US is probably the third hated group among Chinese citizens just behind Japan and "Taiwanese Seperatists". The last time I went to any Chinese forum, approximately 90% of their male patrons would fantasize about nuking Japan and/or wiping out Tokyo/Kyoto as revenge for what happened 60 to 200 years ago. Why do they hate US? It is easy for them to understand. US supports Japan and Taiwan. The friend of the enemy is an enemy. We can also add a few other things to make them even more furious like the Korean War (the Chinese claim they were there to expel European imperialism, sounds just like the Japanese proclaimed 100 or so years ago), the bombing of their embassy (no one is going to believe USAF and CIA were using ten year old maps), sending the carrier battle group to "observe" Taiwanese elections during '96, and the spyplane incident...so on so forth. The Chinese do have quite a list of reasons to fear and hate USA. Oh yeah, and their top generals has proclaimed several times that if US intervenes in their affairs, America would be putting the entire West Coast at risk of nuclear war.
4. Purchasing US debt is a common practice in the world, not just limited to China. However, most East Asian countries do have this particular attribute especially heightened. This may be partly caused by a cultural myth that equates acumulating foreign reserves (aka hording US treasury bills) with economic development. When I was in Taiwan, the leaders of Taiwan seem to be very proud of that fact and comments on it every year. I heard the leaders of Korea, China, and Japan all do similar things.




RE: Of Conspracies and Hatred
By geeg on 5/23/2006 8:04:27 AM , Rating: 2
Nice. I especially liked the idea in (2.)


Empty idiotic rhetoric
By Jaylllo on 5/23/2006 1:35:11 PM , Rating: 2
Software is much more problematic than hardware given the current market.

I won't comment about the feasibility or practicality of it being as ridiculous (please stop spelling it 'rediculous') as it is.

This guy needs to roll into his casket already.






RE: Empty idiotic rhetoric
By carage on 5/24/2006 12:44:45 AM , Rating: 2
Some believe as long as the machines don't run an off-the-shelf OS and is installed and setup by their own personell instead of the supplier or contracter, then the system should be secure. Is this a valid statement? I doubt that.


Embarrassing
By edogwv on 5/22/2006 9:07:50 AM , Rating: 2
This Article is just embarrassing... If a decision like this needs to be made it should be done behind closed doors not in the eye of the public. No tact at all

This Bill is an embarrasment to our country and the person who suggested it should step down and then apologize to Lenovo for insulting them.




RE: Embarrassing
By Christopher1 on 5/22/2006 9:55:31 AM , Rating: 1
They really are NOT going to find any computers that are not made in China, EXCEPT maybe Alienware PC's (they have "Made in USA" on their website).

Are they REALLY going to want to pay $1,000 dollars apiece for computers? And really, what is this rep worried about?

Viruses, spyware, etc.: just blow the computer away and re-install everything from a disc the GOVERNMENT makes.


A frog inside the well
By slider169 on 5/22/2006 7:28:47 PM , Rating: 2
The US Representative who made such statements are superb stupid. They don't even know what's going on outside thier offices.




By gudodayn on 5/22/2006 9:25:27 PM , Rating: 2
Frank Wolf??

He does know that there is not a PC manufactured today that does not contain parts made in CHINA??

I dont like CHINA either, the country sucks and people have no human rights!

Did you know that most of the public toilets have no doors?? I dont mean the urinals either........so people (being so populated) just stand there and watch you do your thing while they wait in line!!!

The bottom line is, considering a 100x difference in pay for manual labor, lets not say US companies, even Taiwan companies are closing down factories here in Taiwan and moving over to China!! In the end, its all about how much profit they can make!!!

So Frankie, good luck finding non China-made part PC.......oh wait!! I think there are some available in Pentium 1 or 2 variant, I think you should try that!!!





Current Political Rhetoric!
By Beorn on 5/23/2006 11:56:53 AM , Rating: 2
Just to shed a little light on this subject:
The U.S.'s current regime is trying to start yet another stupid F*#k$$g war in the middle east to "assist" the oil lobby in this country.
In our positioning with IRAN China has announced that they will defend IRAN against any and all American insurgency.
Hope this helps everyone KNOW why the American government is trying to yet again twist the american mind against the Communist "threat".
And before the flag wavers get started, I'm a true PATRIOT!!!
I believe like Benjamin Franklin did, you cannot give up rights in the name of security. If you do you don't deserve either!
J




In related news
By DigitalFreak on 5/25/2006 7:57:30 AM , Rating: 2
In related news, Chinese food is also being banned from all government offices.




just few thoughts
By piotrsan on 5/25/2006 1:25:12 PM , Rating: 2
Btw why are Chinas people able to post here i though their net was so censored by now that sites like that were banned or is it just words like "freedom" and "June 4" or "Tienanmen" that gets a site banned from the china’s network ? As to Russia I will not even try to bother commenting the topic , Im polish and if you think Americans hated Russia you don’t realize what real hatred is .There are a lot of facts and genocide that is still being omitted even by countries like US. Anyway don’t misunderstand me I don’t have anything against Chinas people I really understand them , we had a communist government for 40 years here. Its always the people that suffer although id be biased if I didn’t mention their government made some great achievements like economic law ,tax law and supporting development, very clean streets, low crime .The only real bad things are censorship and fabrication of history making 1 billion people clueless to what was the world history till now. As to nukes and those sorts of things Im more afraid of US 3000 nuclear warheads then few nukes in china or other countries .Imagine another US president like JFK addicted to morphine making the decisions with the nukes (real facts raveled by “American science” , “discovery channel”).Anyway don’t flame me I just had those things on my mind and decided to put it on to the paper.





By wuZheng on 5/21/2006 6:14:17 PM , Rating: 2
Well aren't we a little on the ignorant side today? Third world? Sweatshop? Slave labour? FYI, these people work in factories which were constructed using funds from the companies themselves. These works also get paid, and their working conditions aren't half as bad as you make it seem. You must be thinking of those carpet shops with little kids working on them, in that case you are right. But if you're going to single out China, I guess I should point out a good majority of REAL third-world countries like those in Africa export products to the United States as well. India also isn't innocent of using child labour to make goods for exporting to North American soil. So, back to your point, how does it make the world a better place if all products from China were barred from the "developed" world. Psht, get informed before posting such ridiculous crap.


By jconan on 5/22/2006 2:16:42 PM , Rating: 2
even here is America there are sweatshops that exist but are not well publicized...
"The U.S. has had its share of sweatshops New York, Los Angeles are leading offenders, but even Seattle had its problems"
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/specials/madeinmiser...
"the Clean Clothes Connection"
http://www.cleanclothesconnection.org/sweatshopqa....


By ksherman on 5/21/2006 6:15:38 PM , Rating: 4
While in some ways I agree, you dont know what you are saying.

On another note, I laughed when i saw that list... what an eye opener!


By peternelson on 5/21/2006 6:24:43 PM , Rating: 3


In highly labour intensive markets like clothing or shoes sweatshops, then costs are kept down because labour rates and conditions are low.

When making microchips a very CAPITAL intensive facility ie to BUILD A FAB, very few people operate the production line and their wages are insignificant in comparison to the tech investment.

Therefore there must be very different reasons influencing a decision to locate production in China (than clothes) - like maybe the fact that transport is cheap and quicker to ship products to adjacent factory or country than to go around the world to assemble boards from those components.

It is pretty silly to insist on such policy of boycott Chinese computers. Nobody is forcing you to buy them. If you are worried about industrial / state secrets, surely the shipment company or the OEM could be inserting monitoring bugs into the finished laptop AFTER they leave china.

And that presupposes the Chinese don't already have spies in the NSA, CIA, FBI, whitehouse and industrial design companies of the USA.

This is just political rhetoric by someone who knows nothing. Next you'll be saying government supercomputers shouldn't be using AMD opterons because they are made in a fab in Germany.


By bob661 on 5/21/2006 8:31:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Keep buying crap from China and eliminating jobs in the U.S. and who will have the means to buy the inferior imported crap in another decade
You do realize that the computer you are using is "inferior imported crap", don't you?


By geeg on 5/22/2006 11:57:53 AM , Rating: 2
What I understood from all these comments:

- Money rules the world.
- People are ready to blame you, when you criticize a group of people or a country.
- We should censor the things we dont like.
- Products manufactured in China are crap.

I think all these four bullets are right and wrong at the same time. They are gray areas. Because of these gray areas we had 2 world wars where they massacred like 100 million people. They continued to do so for the sake of communism in 50/60's.

So what is the point of all these comments?


By mushi799 on 5/23/2006 10:22:48 PM , Rating: 2
China is a 2nd world country, soon to be first in the next two decades or so.

And if you were to barred imports from China and produce those products here, prices would increase dramatically and people would not like that at all. Why would i want to pay more on something when both countries are benefitting from off-shoring.


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