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Print 100 comment(s) - last by Moishe.. on Mar 19 at 3:31 PM

Apple has another solid hit with the "New iPad"

Apple's "New iPad" was announced last week to much fanfare in San Francisco. As is usually the case with new iPad or iPhone releases, launch day pre-orders sold out quickly and those who were late to get their orders in could end up waiting for a few weeks to get their hands on one.
 
As a refresher, an Apple A5X processor that has seen its onboard RAM double from 512MB to 1GB powers the new iPad. The A5X is also blessed with a quad-core GPU which boosts gaming performance and helps feed the new iPad's biggest new feature: a 2048 x 1536 resolution Retina display. Other niceties include a 5MP rear-facing camera, and optional LTE connectivity.

 
On the negative side, the weight and thickness of the iPad has grown to accommodate a new 42.5 watt-hour battery (the iPad 2 had a 25 watt-hour battery). In addition, Apple is once again being stingy with storage capacities on the iPad. Even though app sizes are doubling or even tripling in some cases due to Retina support, Apple is holding firm with 16GB, 32GB, and 64GB capacities -- the same lineup as when the first generation iPad launched in 2010.
 
Tonight, however, we're getting our first look at what the new iPad can do courtesy of a flood of reviews. Here are some select excerpts from the reviews that are currently available:
 
Joshua Topolsky of The Verge gives his thoughts on the iPad 3's gorgeous new Retina display:
 
Yes, this display is outrageous. It's stunning. It's incredible. I'm not being hyperbolic or exaggerative when I say it is easily the most beautiful computer display I have ever looked at…
 
You literally can't see pixels on the iPad's display when you hold it at a regular distance, and even up close you have to really inspect the thing to see dots. For rendered text or high resolution images, it just looks otherworldly; like a glowing piece of paper.
 

The difference between the iPad 2's display and the new iPad's Retina display [Source: The Verge]
 
Walt Mossberg of AllThingsD fame touched on the battery life of the new iPad. While it's not quite the power-sipper as its predecessor, it still posts some impressive numbers.
 
Apple claims up to 10 hours of battery life between charges, and up to nine hours if you are relying strictly on cellular connectivity. In my standard battery test, where I play videos back to back with both cellular and Wi-Fi on, and the screen at 75% brightness, the new iPad logged 9 hours and 58 minutes, compared with 10 hours and 9 minutes for the iPad 2. Other tablets died hours sooner in the same test. In more normal use, the new iPad lasted more than a full day, though not as long as the iPad 2 did.
 
The original iPad didn't have any cameras at all, while the iPad 2 came with a standard front-facing camera for FaceTime and an incredibly subpar rear-facing camera for pictures and 720p video. The new iPad can now features a 5MP camera and bumps video recording up to 1080p. Vincent Nguyen of SlashGear gives his thoughts on the new optics:
 
Apple says it has borrowed the camera technology and optics from the iPhone 4S for the new iPad, though still the 5-megapixel images the tablet is capable of do lag behind the 8-megapixel examples from the smartphone. There’s more visible noise and chromatic aberrations at full zoom, though the quality is far, far better than any stills the iPad 2 can achieve. You also get face recognition for up to ten people per frame, automatically adjusting focus and exposure, but the camera app UI itself is no more complex than before.
 
While the actual CPU hasn't improved much over the iPad 2, the integrated GPU has definitely been turbocharged, as witnessed by Jason Snell of MacWorld:
 
That power comes from the X factor in the A5X processor—a new quad-core graphics engine. And sure enough, the third-generation iPad blows away every other iOS device in terms of graphics performance. In our tests using the GLBench 3D graphics testing app, the third-generation iPad could draw a complex 3D scene at the full frame rate of its display, 60 frames per second, without breaking a sweat. And in GLBench offscreen tests, which aren’t constrained by the display’s frame rate, the third-generation iPad had a frame rate 1.6 times that of the iPad 2 (and 13 times that of the original iPad).
 
 
 

[Source: MacWorld]
 
Overall, the new iPad seems to be another solid entry into the tablet field for Apple. It holds the line on CPU performance and battery life (at the expense of device thickness and weight) while offering an impressive Retina display, optional LTE, and a tremendous boost in graphics performance. Pricing remains the same as previous iPad model ($499/$599/$699 for Wi-Fi; add $130 for LTE models), but Apple still doesn't have the guts to give users an increase in storage capacities.
 
To sum things up, Joshua Topolsky offers these words of advice:
 
Let's be clear: the new iPad is in a class by itself, just as its predecessor was. As the latest product in a lineage of devices that defined this category, the iPad continues to stand head and shoulders above the competition. With the addition of the Retina display, LTE, more memory, and a more powerful CPU, Apple has absolutely held onto the iPad's market position as the dominant player and product to beat. 
 
 


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Competitors
By djdjohnson on 3/14/2012 10:22:10 PM , Rating: 2
I wish competitors would step up and come up with something that would actually compete with the iPad. The current Android tablets are abysmal. Hopefully Windows 8 actually gets some traction when it ships and can compete. It isn't good to have effectively just one vendor for any product. Competition is a good thing.




RE: Competitors
By Cobra Commander on 3/14/2012 10:44:46 PM , Rating: 2
Once people get out of the old fashioned mindset of designing to win on comparison charts and be competitive on technicalities and design with a more holistic (Apple-like) approach we'll see TRUE competition.

Abysmal, pathetic, how else can we call the spade a spade?


RE: Competitors
By wordsworm on 3/14/2012 11:47:50 PM , Rating: 3
Amazon, I think, is just getting warmed up...


RE: Competitors
By Uncle on 3/15/2012 12:03:27 AM , Rating: 1
Your just comparing the wrong products."The new iPad now features a 5MP and bumps video recording up to 1080p.
Apple is just playing catchup to RIM. Rim has had video 1080p from day one. Like SJ said "We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."


RE: Competitors
By LordSojar on 3/15/2012 12:45:43 AM , Rating: 2
The screen on my Transformer Prime may not be a "Retina" display (and even the iPad 3's isn't Retina by Apple's very own definition... but that's ok, Apple created the display... oh wait...), however, my Prime's screen is far brighter than the iPad 2's or the 3's, and as such, I can use my ANYWHERE including in DIRECT sunlight... so I'll take that over crazy HD (though having both would be awesome, and that will soon be the case with the 1080p Transformer Infinity)

Additionally, my Prime has an LED flash on its 8MP camera (and the picture quality is as good or better than Apple's iPad 3s and the video, which is crisp, gorgeous 30fps 1080p I might add, is perfect!), allowing me to take photos in not well lit areas and at night.

And while my Prime doesn't have all the GPU touted in the iPad 3, the Tegra 3 is quite potent for a mobile GPU. Shadowgun THD is gorgeous, and the added physics effects really add to immersion.

My GPS unit isn't absolutely perfect, but that's ok because you know what? I don't use my tablet as a GPS like a total moron... having a 10.1" screen mounted in the view of my sight while driving is an accident waiting to happen. My GPS finds where I am just fine outside in downtown Chicago and helps me get to where I need to go.... and if I need more precision for some strange reason, I pull out my Galaxy S2 LTE, the same Galaxy S2 LTE I mount in my car for navigation as needed.

Let's put it this way: I'm 110% satisfied with my Prime, and my keyboard dock lets me type documents on the go, effectively replacing the need for an ultrabook or laptop for all but the most intensive tasks.

So... why do I need an iPad 3 again? Oh right, apps... screens filled with little icons instead of interactive widgets that I can simply glance at. Ice Cream Sandwich puts iOS 5 to shame folks, and I use BOTH on a daily basis thanks to having an iPad 2 less than 2 feet from me. Android 4.0 blurs the line between a PC and a mobile device... iOS simply doesn't.


RE: Competitors
By xti on 3/15/12, Rating: 0
RE: Competitors
By EasyC on 3/15/2012 7:44:36 AM , Rating: 2
My app count is bigger than your app count nah nah nee poo poo.

2 questions:

1) How many apps in the Apple eco system are to replace sites that normally use flash?
2) How many apps in the Apple eco system are useless/redundant/novelty apps?

I think you'll find that there is a common ground for both markets for useful and credible app selections.


RE: Competitors
By testerguy on 3/15/2012 4:55:56 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
however, my Prime's screen is far brighter than the iPad 2's or the 3's, and as such, I can use my ANYWHERE including in DIRECT sunlight...


Because you've placed the new iPad side by side with your prime and compared? And in DIRECT sunlight too?

And of course, because all iPad users can't use their tablets in sunlight? Please.

quote:
and the picture quality is as good or better than Apple's iPad 3s


Again, because you've taken the exact same photo on both and compared quality? Or are you just guessing.

quote:
the Tegra 3 is quite potent for a mobile GPU


Well it's all relative. Whichever way we word it, Tegra 3 is a relatively slow GPU. Slower even than the iPad 2.

quote:
and my keyboard dock lets me type documents on the go


You can get a keyboard dock for the iPad too.

quote:
So... why do I need an iPad 3 again? Oh right, apps... screens filled with little icons instead of interactive widgets that I can simply glance at


The point in the apps argument is that there are many functionalities which many people want which simply aren't available on Android. Even where the Android app does exist it's often a poor quality blown up smartphone app. The vast majority of apps people use don't make sense to use as 'interactive widgets', because they aren't just sat there checking for updates. For example, a Sky Sports app which lets you watch F1. It's available on iPad, not on Android tablets. Like most apps, having a 'widget' of that on the 'dashboard' would be less than useless. This applies to an overwhelming majority of apps, all games, for example. The items which are actually important to receive updates for (email etc) are catered for, and individual apps which you can have on your homescreen can flag that they have updates which appears in red right there on the home page (in the rare cases that this is needed).

Then lets look at the other side, you have a lower resolution, slower GPU tablet, which has statistically worse reliability, worse battery life, going on historical records will struggle for software support when new versions of Android come out, and which has fewer apps and even fewer apps designed to be used for tablets specifically. Fair enough if you're satisfied but I very much doubt you've ever owned a third generation iPad to make the comparisons you claim to be able to make.


RE: Competitors
By EasyC on 3/15/2012 8:29:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because you've placed the new iPad side by side with your prime and compared? And in DIRECT sunlight too?


Wasn't it Apple who said not to use the iPad in direct sunlight because of overheating? ....

http://thenextweb.com/apple/2010/04/03/ipad-sun-re...

quote:
Again, because you've taken the exact same photo on both and compared quality? Or are you just guessing.


Perhaps he's read the numerous reviews stating the Prime's camera to be the best camera on a tablet thus far? The iPad 2's camera looked like a 90's web cam. Granted they did bring up the quality in the new iPad, but by the looks of the test shots, they are just matching the current quality of most tablets available.

quote:
Well it's all relative. Whichever way we word it, Tegra 3 is a relatively slow GPU. Slower even than the iPad 2.


I'll use your own wording for this...

Again, because you've played the exact same game on both and compared quality at the same resolution? Or are you just guessing.

Since you're wearing the rose colored glasses, you might not understand the reference. The iPad 2's GPU has to push 786,432 pixels, where as the Tegra 3's resolution has to push 1,024,000 pixels on the prime. That's roughly a 30% difference. Is the iPad 2's GPU 30% faster?

As far as the new iPad's GPU being 4x faster... well, it HAS to be. It's powering 3,145,728 pixels. This also goes into my storage argument later on, so stay tuned.

quote:
You can get a keyboard dock for the iPad too.


Does said iPad keyboard have a mousepad? Full size SD card slot? USB slot? Built in battery? (btw, the Prime I was sampling easily got 3-4 days of moderate usage on the battery, not sure where you got your battery claims from).

You don't quite yet understand the differences between where the Prime is going and where your beloved iPad is going. The iPad is a media consumption device. Always has been. To your defense most Android tablets are as well. The Prime is trying to blur that line and make the tablet more useful for creation scenarios. I've had the privelage to personally test a Prime side by side with an iPad 2, and the distinction is clear. There comes a point where an iPad user will say "I want to do x, but it's just not feasible with the iPad's input methods".

For example, while I had the Prime, I was able to take a few pictures with my digital camera. After, I took my SD card out of the camera and put it into the Prime's SD slot (on the keyboard), loaded the pictures into Photoshop Touch, did some adjustments, and emailed them off to the people who needed them. I did NOT have to carry around a laptop or hunt for a computer with photoshop installed. Simple, easy, PRODUCTIVE .

quote:
The point in the apps argument is that there are many functionalities which many people want which simply aren't available on Android.


No your point in the argument is someone has challenged your amazing new iDevice. You make blanket statements such as the one I just quoted, without backing it up with any proof. Which apps do people simply want, that aren't available?

And widgets aren't useful? That's probably because you've never had them in the iWorld. Weather, News, Email, SMS, Music, Movie Times, Sports Scores, System Tools, Toggles, are all vastly more efficiently accessed via a widget than opening an app for each one. How easy is it to toggle WiFi on the iPad? What about looking up weather? Email? etc. Gliding from screen to screen on the Android homescreen can answer all these questions without ever opening an app.

One final argument before I finish. Storage space. iPads don't have anything other than what's built in. While testing the prime, I had 32GB on board, 32GB in a microSD, 32GB on a full SD, and finally 32GB on a usb stick. I didn't get a chance to test the usb port for portable hard drives, so I can't comment as to whether they work or not, but all together, that's 128GB of space to play with. You may argue that the iPad doesn't need all that, but have you heard of the new Retina display? How small do you think building textures for that resolution will be? On Android a decent game can take 500MB, easy.

http://www.everythingicafe.com/new-ipad-apps-massi...

Guess those SD cards are looking mighty fine right now.

We get it, you love Apple. While their new iPad is a great device for sure, it's not vastly steps ahead of the competition. I'd reluctantly recommend it to people who want a media consumption appliance, where they are guided on how they can use it and don't have many options to veer from the path. While the GPU on the iPad may indeed be the fastest available, it has to be just to keep up with the experience of other tablets that have already been on the market for months. It's still a step behind in the actual number crunching department, plain and simple.

Read it all, soak it in. But you'll probably still troll away.


RE: Competitors
By testerguy on 3/15/2012 10:34:05 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wasn't it Apple who said not to use the iPad in direct sunlight because of overheating?


Does that link from 2010 refer to the iPad 3? No.
Is that link about display brightness? No.
Therefore, is it relevant to what was being discussed? No.

quote:
Perhaps he's read the numerous reviews stating the Prime's camera to be the best camera on a tablet thus far?


None of which will have tested the iPad 3 camera. Which is precisely my point. A complete you obviously missed.

quote:
I'll use your own wording for this... Again, because you've played the exact same game on both and compared quality at the same resolution? Or are you just guessing. Since you're wearing the rose colored glasses, you might not understand the reference. The iPad 2's GPU has to push 786,432 pixels, where as the Tegra 3's resolution has to push 1,024,000 pixels on the prime. That's roughly a 30% difference. Is the iPad 2's GPU 30% faster? As far as the new iPad's GPU being 4x faster... well, it HAS to be. It's powering 3,145,728 pixels. This also goes into my storage argument later on, so stay tuned.


The relative benchmark speeds of GPU's has nothing at all to do with resolution. All benchmarks, ideally, such as those on Anandtech, are at the same resolution. Your comments about screen resolution are therefore completely meaningless. The benchmarks show that at the SAME RESOLUTION, the iPad 2 GPU is up to 2x faster than tegra 3. I therefore can evidence my logical claim that the Tegra 3 is relatively slow when compared to the GPU in the iPad 3 (which is theoretically 2x faster than the iPad 2 GPU). The fact that the new iPad has even more pixels is completely irrelevant too because it can render at iPad 2 resolution and upscale if required. And also because a GPU isn't measured by the device it's in - it's measured by the graphics it can produce relative to other GPU's when resolution is constant.

quote:
Does said iPad keyboard have a mousepad? Full size SD card slot? USB slot? Built in battery? (btw, the Prime I was sampling easily got 3-4 days of moderate usage on the battery, not sure where you got your battery claims from).


You can get one with USB slots, SD cards, batteries, yes. Very easily, or a mouse accessory. But the original comment didn't say this, and neither did my reply. So your failed point is irrelevant. The bottom line is that in accessory terms, you'd struggle to find a device with more accessories than the iPad 3.

quote:
You don't quite yet understand the differences between where the Prime is going and where your beloved iPad is going. The iPad is a media consumption device. Always has been. To your defense most Android tablets are as well. The Prime is trying to blur that line and make the tablet more useful for creation scenarios. I've had the privelage to personally test a Prime side by side with an iPad 2, and the distinction is clear. There comes a point where an iPad user will say "I want to do x, but it's just not feasible with the iPad's input methods". For example, while I had the Prime, I was able to take a few pictures with my digital camera. After, I took my SD card out of the camera and put it into the Prime's SD slot (on the keyboard), loaded the pictures into Photoshop Touch, did some adjustments, and emailed them off to the people who needed them. I did NOT have to carry around a laptop or hunt for a computer with photoshop installed. Simple, easy, PRODUCTIVE


Firstly - you say 'beloved' iPad. I don't own a tablet. Just because I am not so bitter about Apple that I can appreciate what they have developed like anyone logical, doesn't mean I love them or own them.

Secondly - this discussion isn't about where devices are 'going', it's specifically about where they are now, comparing the iPad 3 to the Transformer Prime. Nothing to do with the future.

Thirdly - there come points for Android tablet users every day when there aren't apps available when they want to do productive things. It's well documented how much fewer apps there are on Android and how they always come second. Your example of photo editing is pretty ironic given that Apples new software provides the ability to do precisely what you describe. Simply take the photo, plug the SD card into your iPhone SD adapter ($5), edit it using the iPhone photo editing software (very highly regarded). And of course, that photo editing happens faster due to the more capable GPU and in better quality due to the superior screen resolution.

Fourthly yes the difference is immediately obvious because one is ugly, poorly made, lower resolution, slower, has a battery which dies sooner and has MUCH fewer apps.


RE: Competitors
By testerguy on 3/15/2012 10:36:19 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
No your point in the argument is someone has challenged your amazing new iDevice. You make blanket statements such as the one I just quoted, without backing it up with any proof. Which apps do people simply want, that aren't available?


I have given numerous examples in various posts. I'll give a single one because I only need one to prove my point. Sky Sports, who have the exclusive rights to the most watched football league in any sport in the world - the English Premier League. The app for that is only available on iPad. As is the F1 coverage. And again, I don't own an 'amazing new iDevice' - you sound pretty bitter about them though. That you challenge my 'blanket statement' that is pretty much common knowledge certainly evidences this.

quote:
And widgets aren't useful? That's probably because you've never had them in the iWorld. Weather, News, Email, SMS, Music, Movie Times, Sports Scores, System Tools, Toggles, are all vastly more efficiently accessed via a widget than opening an app for each one. How easy is it to toggle WiFi on the iPad? What about looking up weather? Email? etc. Gliding from screen to screen on the Android homescreen can answer all these questions without ever opening an app.


Honestly? Weather, SMS, Email, Music, System Tools are all widgets you can have on your home page on iOS, they show when you have new emails, so you just tap and then there you have it. If that single click is too challenging for you, and you're desperate to have it all immediately, go with Android. But most people aren't so mentally incapable that this is a requirement for them. Wifi toggle? I've never ever turned Wifi off on any apple device. Ever. For me, (and most people), there's never a need to turn it off. That you have such a focus on it simply exposes how awful Android battery life is. Weather on home screen, email one tap. Rocket science? lol. 'Widgets' has to be the single weakest argument of fandroids, and if you desperately wanted that on an iPad or iPhone you can, by jailbreaking. No problem at all.

quote:
One final argument before I finish. Storage space. iPads don't have anything other than what's built in. While testing the prime, I had 32GB on board, 32GB in a microSD, 32GB on a full SD, and finally 32GB on a usb stick. I didn't get a chance to test the usb port for portable hard drives, so I can't comment as to whether they work or not, but all together, that's 128GB of space to play with. You may argue that the iPad doesn't need all that, but have you heard of the new Retina display? How small do you think building textures for that resolution will be? On Android a decent game can take 500MB, easy.


You can use SD cards, USB sticks and hard drives with iPad too. So you're whole rant is irrelevant. You don't, typically, because those kinds of storage are always slower and damage performance, and because, as you say, the majority of people don't need that much storage. Your example of a game taking 500mb is pretty irrelevant since you would need someone who had loads of top top quality games which are all much bigger textually for it even to be relevant. Such a power user (and it's a tiny minority) would probably have the 32GB model. At least when they do game, it's actually far higher quality and far faster. Indeed, any true gamer who matched your example would never be satisfied with the up to 4x slower Tegra 3.

quote:
We get it, you love Apple. While their new iPad is a great device for sure, it's not vastly steps ahead of the competition. I'd reluctantly recommend it to people who want a media consumption appliance, where they are guided on how they can use it and don't have many options to veer from the path. While the GPU on the iPad may indeed be the fastest available, it has to be just to keep up with the experience of other tablets that have already been on the market for months. It's still a step behind in the actual number crunching department, plain and simple.


I don't love Apple at all. As I told you, I don't own an iPad. I just use logic. If Android tablets were better than iPads, I would say so. They just aren't. Not even close. You're accusing me of being biased but honestly, your whole comment is dripping of bias against Apple - probably because you own Android devices.

You say it's not 'vastly ahead' of the competition? Really? Even the iPad 2 performance hasn't been matched to date. The iPad 4 is up to 4x faster graphically than the FASTEST Android tablet, has a higher resolution than any, has the best battery life, and best reliability ratings. Apple also supports the software for far longer than Android and has thousands upon thousands of apps, the vast majority of which are higher quality and not just blown up smartphone apps.

Your claims that the GPU 'has to be fast just to keep up' are beyond ridiculous. All the Android tablets will try to catch up to the resolution AND the graphics performance of the new iPad. They are massively, massively, behind on both. Generations behind. Even behind the iPad 2. In the 'number crunching department' the iPad GPU wins, hands down, in almost every important metric. Crucially, the performance is 4x faster. Your attempt to describe the 4x more powerful GPU as inferior because the screen is also massively superior, is quite frankly an irrational joke which makes a mockery of your rant.


RE: Competitors
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/15/12, Rating: 0
RE: Competitors
By EasyC on 3/15/2012 11:26:05 AM , Rating: 2
Oh my where to start. Not an Apple fan? You're stretching your points really far towards that direction. Maybe you just don't like admitting you're wrong. Either way, it's the case.

quote:
Does that link from 2010 refer to the iPad 3? No.


No, it doesn't. It was meant as a humorous counterpoint. However, given Apples track record, thermal efficiency is an afterthought compared to aesthetics.

quote:
None of which will have tested the iPad 3 camera. Which is precisely my point. A complete you obviously missed.


Have you seen the pictures they've taken with the new iPad? They are a ton better than iPad 2, but then again, a modern webcam is a step above the iPad 2. Besides, who would use a tablet for considerable photography anyway?

quote:
The relative benchmark speeds of GPU's has nothing at all to do with resolution. All benchmarks, ideally, such as those on Anandtech, are at the same resolution. Your comments about screen resolution are therefore completely meaningless. The benchmarks show that at the SAME RESOLUTION, the iPad 2 GPU is up to 2x faster than tegra 3. I therefore can evidence my logical claim that the Tegra 3 is relatively slow when compared to the GPU in the iPad 3 (which is theoretically 2x faster than the iPad 2 GPU). The fact that the new iPad has even more pixels is completely irrelevant too because it can render at iPad 2 resolution and upscale if required. And also because a GPU isn't measured by the device it's in - it's measured by the graphics it can produce relative to other GPU's when resolution is constant.


You do realize that almost all 10" Android tablets run a higher resolution than the iPad 2 (those numbers I gave you), right? Last I checked, a lot of games don't have resolution settings and are just developed to the native resolution of the device. Also, the only Tegra 3 tablet right now is the Prime which is ... shocker ... 1280x800. So explain to me how Anandtech managed to force the games on the Prime to play at 1024x768? Go ahead, we will all wait for your *brilliant* explanation. Again, Show us multiple benchmarks.

quote:
You can get one with USB slots, SD cards, batteries, yes. Very easily, or a mouse accessory. But the original comment didn't say this, and neither did my reply. So your failed point is irrelevant. The bottom line is that in accessory terms, you'd struggle to find a device with more accessories than the iPad 3.


Oh really? Show me a single accessory that turns the iPad into an *attractive* mini netbook with a Keyboard, Trackpad, USB slot, SD Slot, and extra battery. I'd love to see this. Also, can you move your apps and such to said SD card? You failed to realize my point. Yes the iPad has tons of accessories, but how many are as useful as the keyboard dock on the Prime. I'll save you the trouble. None.

quote:
Firstly - you say 'beloved' iPad. I don't own a tablet. Just because I am not so bitter about Apple that I can appreciate what they have developed like anyone logical, doesn't mean I love them or own them.


So what you're saying, is you're a spec sheet jockey with no real experience on any of the products discussed. Got it.

quote:
Secondly - this discussion isn't about where devices are 'going', it's specifically about where they are now, comparing the iPad 3 to the Transformer Prime. Nothing to do with the future.


My facts and statements were about the current state of things.

quote:
Thirdly - there come points for Android tablet users every day when there aren't apps available when they want to do productive things. It's well documented how much fewer apps there are on Android and how they always come second. Your example of photo editing is pretty ironic given that Apples new software provides the ability to do precisely what you describe. Simply take the photo, plug the SD card into your iPhone SD adapter ($5), edit it using the iPhone photo editing software (very highly regarded). And of course, that photo editing happens faster due to the more capable GPU and in better quality due to the superior screen resolution.


Did you really just say the iPad uses the GPU for photo editing? Really? Computational tasks (such as photo/video manipulation) are a CPU intensive process, unless the application supports GPU acceleration. I don't have any experience with the software you're referring to say whether or not that feature exists. Neither do you, so your opinion is moot on this.

quote:
Fourthly yes the difference is immediately obvious because one is ugly, poorly made, lower resolution, slower, has a battery which dies sooner and has MUCH fewer apps.


Yup, you definitely don't love Apple or the iPad. Look, you haven't proven a damn thing. I see a lot of talk talk talk, but no proof (and sorry, but your opinion is not fact). Not a single link (to an unbiased source), no list of apps (and no, I'm not going to waste my time reading all your dribble on this article). You mentioned a single F1 racing app. I don't know of anyone who watches F1, so it's not exactly an app I could say "people" want.

To dissect the rest of your crap:

Ugly - The Prime is more attractive than any iPad IMO.
Poorly Made - Tossup. Yes some have GPS issues (my sample did not), but all the iPads have had issues upon launch as well (overheating, screens, etc). We won't know about this iPad until a month from now.
Slower - Also debatable. For pure 3D acceleration, yes. But find an app that can handle multithreading and I'd be willing to bet a 4x1.4GHz CPU will hand a 2x1GHz CPU it's ass in computational work load (aka getting stuff done).
Battery - You have no idea what you're talking about. No really, you don't. You've said so yourself (See: I don't own a tablet). I've sampled a Prime and the battery claims of 10-12 hours on typical use is entirely correct. Anandtech themselves got 11 hours of continuous video playback. Couple that with a dock and there is no competition.

You really make this too easy. Even Tony knows more than you about this. He at least posts links (even if biased), to try and back up his claims.

I started to read your second reply, but saw that it was filled with personal attacks. That's the first sign that you're losing a debate, so I'd hang it up now before you look like more a fool.


RE: Competitors
By BSMonitor on 3/15/12, Rating: 0
RE: Competitors
By LordSojar on 3/15/2012 4:18:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And yet, no one cares about Android Tablets/Phones with all these ports and memory slots and more storage...


Again, attacking features that benefit the end users. Are Apple users really THIS stupid?

"OMG COMPANY X ADDED Y FEATURE. WELL THAT'S STUPID CUZ IPAD DUZNT HAVE IT!"

3 months later, Apple "invents" the same feature.

"OMG GUIZE, NEW IPAD HAZ Y FEATURE! UR PRODUCTS SUCK!"

I believe there was a debate earlier regarding DLNA. First, Android devices didn't have it. Then, when the Apple user discovered they did from an actual informed poster, they then argued DLNA isn't enough and argued that Apple TV's sync function was better than DLNA. Then Android users countered with equivalent technology should you want it. Apple user then just simply stated "Ours is best"

There seems to be a strange trend in all these Apple threads... and it's not Android fanboyism... I just can't put my finger on it. Anyone care to help?


RE: Competitors
By Nortel on 3/15/12, Rating: 0
RE: Competitors
By LordSojar on 3/15/2012 4:06:41 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
The new iPad kills the Prime with gpu speed and incredible screen. That alone makes the prime a piece of trash... Why would anyone buy a Prime now when for the same price they could pick up the new iPad? P.S LED flash is garbage, I never use it on my iphone 4s as the pictures look terrible with it on. Having the gps being broken but dismissing it as not important is a joke. Android is garbage with some crappy widgets slapped on compared to the slick and simple to use iOS 5.1.


Again, incredible screen? So the Prime's SuperIPS+ panel isn't incredible now? Right, I forgot, the 700nits of brightness my Prime can output is inferior to the 450nits that the iPad3 can output.. OH WAIT, right, numbers... curse those numbers and their truth telling... but that's ok, go ahead and spew some more bull. I use my tablet outdoors frequently, therefore, the Prime is better suited for me and my lifestyle. So, my tablet is a piece of trash because it fits my lifestyle? Thanks for degrading my choice of product based on my needs, really shows how mature you are.

LED flash is garage? Dual core processors are garbage. There, I can play that stupid game too... Seriously, you're going to attack an added feature that benefits the user? Really? How absolutely moronic can you get?

Dismissing the GPS? You just did the same thing with LED Flash on the camera for the iPad 3!!!! What strange world do you live in? Oh right, the Apple bubble.

I hate to burst the bubble more, but Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) is gorgeous, slick and smooth as silk. iOS 5 is also very smooth, but it does lack widgets. Yet again, you attack widgets... they benefit users, and you attack them. If Apple adds them, however, they will be amazing and unbelievably useful... right? Because... Apple will do them "right" or "magically" or some such nonsense.

Also, ICS is pretty simple to use at high level (aka for end users). All those complicated things you've been taught to hate about Android are the functions that more advanced users can use. Android 4.0 is very easy to use for the average user, and I can tell you that with certainty thanks to my 81 year old grandmother being able to pickup my Transformer Prime and be able to know EXACTLY what to do. And hell, she's a Mac user (because OSX is easier to use than Windows on a very high level, so there Apple users are correct)

Please stop posting this bull.... it's old.


RE: Competitors
By Solandri on 3/15/2012 5:48:09 PM , Rating: 2
I was wondering how long it would take for Apple fans to flip-flop and declare the high resolution screen as a superior feature. Remember, the iPad and iPad 2 had the worst DPI of any tablet. When Android fans cited the higher DPI on Android tablets as a compelling feature, Apple fans dismissed it saying the iPad's DPI was "good enough".

Now that Apple has the higher DPI screen, they've flipped-flopped and suddenly DPI is an important metric by which to compare tablets. Same thing happened with the iPad 2's thinness. When it was announced, all the Android tablets were "trash" because they were thicker. Then several of the Android manufacturers came out with thinner tablets and suddenly thinness wasn't an important factor anymore.

You can't cherry-pick features like that if you want to do a fair comparison. If the iPad's low resolution wasn't a good reason for you to consider an Android tablet before, then the iPad's high resolution isn't a good reason to consider an iPad now. If the iPad's thinness was a good reason for you to favor the iPad, then the Galaxy Tab's thinner-ness is also a good reason for you to favor the Galaxy.

You have to completely ignore what features each of the competing products have, and come up with a list of features which are important to you. Then compare that list to what the products have to offer. Instead, all too often I see people pick the product first, then rattle off a list of features it has which are superior. I think it's a psychological coping mechanism. You've made your decision and spent your cash. You don't want to find out you made the wrong decision, so you subconsciously block out the negatives of your decision.

It's for this reason that I find critical reviews (i.e. ones which list all the flaws of a device) to be much more helpful. If a review is entirely positive, I figure the reviewer is either a paid marketdroid, or has these psychological blinders on. No product is perfect. If you can't come up with a list of things which could be changed or improved, things which competing product(s) do better, that's a pretty good indication that you're not being objective.


RE: Competitors
By Uncle on 3/16/2012 9:47:30 PM , Rating: 2
Your just comparing the wrong products."The new iPad now features a 5MP and bumps video recording up to 1080p.
Apple is just playing catchup to RIM. Like SJ said "We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
Forgot to mention that Playbook already had 1gig memory.
5MP in the back 3mp in the front.
Rim has had video recording and playback 1080p from day one.
Duel core processor, AHHH shall I go on.
No wonder Apple Fanboys want Rim to fail, constant reminder of what they don't have, and to say rim was falling behind.


RE: Competitors
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/17/2012 7:23:59 PM , Rating: 2
And yet, the Playbook is a failure...lol


RE: Competitors
By Uncle on 3/19/2012 1:57:28 AM , Rating: 2
"As more news of Retina-ready apps" Marketing Hype, similar to digital speakers. Paalease what is this new language "Retina-ready" apps, what, you going to run your apps with your eye ball. Blink once its on, twice its off. I guess if the pad3 is improved ,by a half a gig of memory, higher resolution"Retina-ready", a little improvement in cpu speed, how are you going to sell it to the apple masses, Oh ya lets say its "Retina-ready" ready. Nobody has used the words"Retina-ready", hell we better copyright the words "Retina-ready" before the optometrist copyright it.


RE: Competitors
By RaV3NNN on 3/15/2012 10:36:00 AM , Rating: 1
Its plain, simple and obvious. Most apple users have no technical knowledge what so ever. They buy the new, flashing and pretty product from who THEY think is the best. It comes down to hardware and the simple fact that these tablets cant do anything to graphically intense no matter how strong they are. Games have good frame rates on both of them and that's that. It is irrelevant to compare them. Neither is better than the other. If I had to choose it would be android for flexibility. Apple keeps you stuck in their world without modification. Android is the opposite.


RE: Competitors
By BSMonitor on 3/15/12, Rating: 0
RE: Competitors
By RaV3NNN on 3/15/2012 11:34:21 AM , Rating: 2
you talk about performance when you cant even see the differences between an android tab and an apple tab. Irrelevant. There is no difference


RE: Competitors
By nafhan on 3/15/2012 10:50:14 AM , Rating: 2
The only way you can honestly call the current Android tablets abysmal is if you define abysmal as "not as good as the iPad". The top end Android tablets lose to the iPad, and so what? Thanks to the power of competition, there are tablet choices in the $200 range that would satisfy most people interested in getting a tablet.


RE: Competitors
By therealnickdanger on 3/15/2012 1:52:50 PM , Rating: 2
Compare:
http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/glbench_macworl...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5163/asus-eee-pad-tr...

Tegra 3
GL Egypt Offscreen 720p: 64fps
GL Pro Offscreen 720p: 78fps

iPad 3
GL Egypt Offscreen 720p: 140fps (2.2X faster)
GL Pro Offscreen 720p: 241fps (3.1X faster)

So it's not literally 4X faster, at least in this benchmark, but it is the very reason words like "pwnd" exist.

That being said, I'm very happy with my Acer Iconia A100. It does everything I think a tablet needs to do.


RE: Competitors
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/15/2012 1:56:54 PM , Rating: 1
If "pwnd" was actually a word . Seems like people who lack intellect like to use that word, such as Pirks.


RE: Competitors
By therealnickdanger on 3/15/2012 3:22:53 PM , Rating: 2
People that ignore facts lack intellect, not people who make tongue-in-cheek statements about the facts. If Pirks used "pwnd" to describe the A5X performance over Tegra 3, he would be correctly using it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwn


RE: Competitors
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/15/2012 3:35:49 PM , Rating: 2
I know what it is, I am a gamer. Anyone who uses in the real world, and in discussions outside of gaming, again, is IMO, pretty low intellectually. And Pirks, he uses the term quite frequently, and IMO, he is not a very intellectual human being. I even doubt he is an adult most of the time, he acts like some foul, loud mouthed teenager who thinks he is all important and that his opinions are the end all, be all. He also apparently, has to have the last word.


RE: Competitors
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/15/2012 3:43:33 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and just because it's on Wiki, still doesn't mean it's a real word.


RE: Competitors
By inperfectdarkness on 3/18/2012 8:22:59 AM , Rating: 2
screw pads. i would just like to have a screen on my 15" laptop that isn't pathetic when compared with a 9" tablet. is that so much to ask for?


So to summarise
By Tony Swash on 3/15/2012 10:04:49 AM , Rating: 1
So to summarise a lot of the comments here:

The iPad is bested in numerous ways by numerous competing products.

Nothing Apple has done with the iPad in general, or the new iPad, is special or original.

There is no good reason to buy an iPad

So lots of comments arguing that the iPad should fail.

But it won't. And that's what needs explaining.

You know as well as I know that this new iPad will outsell the old iPad and that the iPad in general has been and will continue to be a gigantic success, sell in the tens of millions and will continue to dominate the tablet market in 2012.

And it's explaining the success of the iPad that is the interesting and challenging problem. Here is a clue: any explanation that is based on the notion everyone else in the world and particularly those buying Apple products are stupid or that Apple's success is based primarily on some sort of magic voodoo marketing, is itself clueless and a sign of an embarrassing intellectual collapse.




RE: So to summarise
By RaV3NNN on 3/15/2012 11:31:34 AM , Rating: 1
you just don't get it. These are simple devices that play games and go on the web, it doesn't matter which one you use or want. Neither does anything better than the other. There is not one feature an apple tablet has that an android doesn't. There is actually MUCH more a person can do with an android tablet depending on their knowledge.


RE: So to summarise
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/15/2012 11:57:44 AM , Rating: 1
You will never reason with this iTool. It's not worth the breath or effort.


RE: So to summarise
By Tony Swash on 3/15/2012 12:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You will never reason with this iTool. It's not worth the breath or effort.


You remind of these guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLYAK1_r0Zg

don't ever change :)


RE: So to summarise
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/15/2012 12:49:52 PM , Rating: 1
You remind me of an iTool...


RE: So to summarise
By Tony Swash on 3/15/2012 12:37:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you just don't get it. These are simple devices that play games and go on the web, it doesn't matter which one you use or want.


It matters quite a bit to those that make billions of dollars from them. It matters quite a bit to those PC OEMs seeing their sales eroded by tablets. It matters, apparently, enough to Microsoft such that they have completely reengineered the next version of Windows around tablets.

quote:
Neither does anything better than the other. There is not one feature an apple tablet has that an android doesn't. There is actually MUCH more a person can do with an android tablet depending on their knowledge


That doesn't answer my question. If all the tablets are more or less equal in utility why does the iPad outsell all other models combined?

Here are some clues and they involve concepts and ideas that those still trying to understand todays markets for computer devices through the backward looking lens of the old PC world will find a bit novel: sales channels, value stacks, media and content libraries, cross device consistency and integration, supply chains, brand value.


RE: So to summarise
By pav1 on 3/18/2012 7:45:20 PM , Rating: 2
There is an opinion that Android tablets are abysmal compared to IPad, it must be related to OS/app quality? Or is it that people have not seen ICS yet? (If you leave hardware out of the equation).

I know that app developers prefer to target IOS first, its easier as the platform is not fragmented.

The tablet market is now maturing, Apple's products are getting more controversial. More questions are being raised with every new product launch.

Regarding Voodoo marketing, my theory is that Apple and Apple stores went on to influence a whole new set of consumers. These consumers are very loyal indeed. They see Apple as their champion. The voodoo arises from amazing customer relations, high credibility and engagement resulting in brand ambassadors to cult levels.

Apple's products are very 'shiny' and the 'shine' helps to eclipse the product deficiencies, and helps in the delivery of new technology, overcoming new product risk aversion, converting that to excitement. It also helps justify the choices the company has made for it's consumers. Today Apple is so big and powerful, 'if Apple cannot do it, no one else can'. If Apple has gone with the A5X, it's probably because 'nothing else would work'. By rejecting Flash, the company has increased it's credibility tremendously.

It remains to be seen whether some of the Apple practices (eg. lack of visibility in operations) will work in mature markets, when competitors are constantly snapping at its heals.


Early Reviews
By RicheemxX on 3/15/2012 12:15:08 AM , Rating: 2
I hate reading early reviews from hand picked "reviewers". Most everything seems to revolve around the exceptional display, which I'm sure looks great but as an avg user if look you at most of the comments and ask is is truly worth upgrading for what you currently have then the answer is likely no.

Being the geeks we are and wanting the latest greatest that won't stop most of us. But reviews like these blugeon consumers into thinking they are getting something magical that isn't necessarily all that.




RE: Early Reviews
By RicheemxX on 3/15/2012 12:19:17 AM , Rating: 3
The other negative side to early reviews is often times, especially with Apple products, these reviews are skewed by the fear that if they don't give a good review, or actually post negative remarks about Apple they won't get their chance at and early hands on again.


As a iPad2 user I still wanted a bigger change.
By Meinolf on 3/15/2012 8:31:56 AM , Rating: 2
I know the display is a lot better but nothing for me to jump to a new one right now. The camera should have been better too.




RE: As a iPad2 user I still wanted a bigger change.
By RaV3NNN on 3/15/2012 12:15:22 PM , Rating: 2
Calling all apple fans.. What happen to your perfect product here?

http://www.dailytech.com/FaceTime+Video+Chat+Still...


By elmikethemike on 3/15/2012 8:49:08 PM , Rating: 1
Are you really that stupid?

1.) Skyping/Facetime over 3G is utterly pointless and horrid. With the millions of iPhone 4's and 4's, FaceTime would annihilate AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint's networks.

2.) Skyping/Facetime over LTE, with the millions upon millions of iPads, will utterly annihilate Verizon and AT&T's networks. You morons don't seem to get that. This isn't an Apple restriction, it's a carrier restriction.

3.) At the end of the day, no one wants to listen to some dipshit FaceTime in public, so they're really doing us a favor anyway.


I like it
By ReloadAO on 3/15/2012 5:14:08 AM , Rating: 2
The new iPad is very good. It's great for people that find it useful and can use it daily. Unfortunately, that is not my case. I'll stick with my HTC and dell xps ;)




RE: I like it
By RaV3NNN on 3/15/2012 12:13:15 PM , Rating: 2
This is a smart man that is not phased by advertisements and sticks to his common sense. something apple fans forget. I computer is a tool, not a pair of sunglasses.


Incorrect GPU results
By B3an on 3/15/2012 8:43:43 AM , Rating: 2
Are those GPU benchmarks actually running at the devices notice resolution? Because i VERY much doubt it.

They seem to be running at the same res as the iPad 2. Then the results make perfect sense. If these tests were run at the native resolution of the new iPad i would bet they get lower frame rates than the previous iPad.




RE: Incorrect GPU results
By RaV3NNN on 3/15/2012 11:25:32 AM , Rating: 1
A tablet is a tablet, it will never be as powerful as a full size computer. The tasks that can be done by a tablet are simple, meaning there is no reason to say one is better than the other, they are not super computers, it doesn't matter which one you buy. They all do the same thing!! rediculous to argue about tablets. You buy what one you want, some prefer android because there are many things you can do with an Android TECHNICALLY if you PREFER.


Upgrade for me
By Rage187 on 3/15/2012 8:53:50 AM , Rating: 2
I have an ipad 1 and my new ipad will be here tomorrow.

I get:

4x the memory
2x the CPU
11-18x the graphics performance
A camera
LTE

Yeah, easy upgrade for me.




RE: Upgrade for me
By RaV3NNN on 3/15/2012 11:16:09 AM , Rating: 1
you guys don't get it. These tablets do their job for whatever they need to do. neither one does any job better than the other. The only difference is you can do more with an android tablet if you want to. There is nothing great about any apple product that makes it better. Learn about computers, grow up. They are basically weak media rigs.


iPad 3 Weight and thickness
By Moishe on 3/19/2012 3:31:28 PM , Rating: 2
I find it odd that weight and thickness are mentioned twice in this article as drawbacks over the iPad2 and yet the details are not listed. Wouldn't it seem obvious that we'd want those details as a comparison?

Thickness:
iPad3 13.4mm
iPad2 8.8mm

Weight:
iPad3 680g (WiFi)
iPad3 730g (WiFi & 3G)

iPad2 601g (WiFi)
iPad2 607g (Verizon)
iPad2 613g (ATT)




Preempting Android fan responses
By Commodus on 3/14/12, Rating: -1
RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By ShaolinSoccer on 3/15/2012 12:07:44 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
And there is absolutely nothing like AirPlay on Android right now. Tapping a couple of buttons and suddenly seeing wireless video on your TV (if you have an Apple TV) or your music on your speakers is something.


WRONG. Many Android tablets have DLNA. Get a clue!


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By Commodus on 3/15/12, Rating: 0
RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By abhaxus on 3/15/2012 2:00:24 AM , Rating: 2
I have airplay on my android devices... Doubletwist airsync ftw! A feature I have never needed to use, as dlna does everything I need. I don't require my closed apple "standards" to simplify things.

As for storage, I have 48 gb on both my phone (gs2) and tablet (evo view) thanks to sd cards. And if I really wanted to, i could keep 16gb cards on hand with even more video if I needed it. I dont travel enough to require that. My phone os at about 25gb full, tablet at about 20. Google music cut into some of my need for storage, and I just finished season 1 of breaking bad so I nuked it from my tablet.

I don't disagree with the apps argument. One of the frustrations I have with my view is that out of the already small pool of honeycomb apps, an even smaller number format properly on a 1024x600 screen. Without root and density changer I would be much less satisfied. Most of the things I do are web based anyway, and for that I am glad to have flash.

Really I am just shocked at how unimpressive the last two launches have been. Completely underwhelming. The reasons for the lawsuit wars are becoming more and more obvious.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By testerguy on 3/15/12, Rating: -1
By mutatio on 3/15/2012 5:57:51 AM , Rating: 2
Just curious. How is AirPlay a closed standard? It is Apple's? Yes. To my knowledge, however, from the start, it was discussed as being a tech that could be integrated with any number of accessories. It's like saying Apple's "closed" iPod standards prohibited car makers and home entertainment companies from integrating the support for it. The rationale just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.


By abhaxus on 3/16/2012 1:30:35 AM , Rating: 1
By last two launches I was referring to the 4S and the "new" iPad or whatever it's called. If you really don't think they are underwhelming, you are definitely drinking the Apple kool-aid. If they've done anything with the previous 3 announcements (iPad, iPhone 4, iPad 2 + A5) it's set incredibly high expectations that probably any company would have trouble meeting, but Asus (with the Prime) and Samsung (with the GSII) have done reasonably well with their products. But a 3G (or faux-g) 4S and a 'new' iPad that ups the GPU speed and RAM (and battery size) to merely keep pace with a ultra high res screen (which admittedly is sexy) isn't enough to make me envy my iFriends. The app library is enough to envy though, but that will catch up over time. Android is simply too popular to be ignored in that regard.

As for the closed standard, yes, AirPlay is expensive, and closed. Well designed, for sure. But if Apple really had the best interests of consumers at heart, they would have developed it as an open standard, and we'd all be enjoying AirPlay quality and ease of use on all of our devices.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By Demonhitman on 3/15/2012 1:25:42 AM , Rating: 2
I disagree with you on some of your points as far as apple is better.

Android as DLNA but if you don't have equipment to use it(just like Apple) what's the point. The apps well Android has all the main apps that most people use. I would say the main reason you need so many apps for Apple is the lack of support for flash and lack of web site support for HTML 5. And for display really after 1080p at 60fps what more do you need? Games yes but movies not really 720p works for most people but not us tech geeks lol. Now memory that where I think you right for now. I think most people are good with about 32gb. That being said once you start getting these bigger app (to use the higher displays coming out) and HD movie (which are getting easier to get) downloads more memory (which is easier and cheaper to do on Android) is going to be needed. The core count I agree with you is way over rated. Most app and OS's don't even use duel cores well. Heck the new S4(duel core) is beating Nvidia T3(quad core) in most test. So core count means nothing right now.

I think the real fight for both will be when Windows 8 drops. It looks like it's going to have the best of both( a walled open garden lol) worlds. With Flash, Office and all Windows programs (I know the arm cpus can't use the old programs and might not have flash but intel/amd can!!!!) in one tap!! If Windows 8 tabs come out at around 399 to 499 its going to beat that hard for both.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By slunkius on 3/15/2012 1:56:15 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think the real fight for both will be when Windows 8 drops


Wasn't there similar slogan about upcoming WP7? Then it came and there is not much of a fight to report. It is nice and all, but marketshare is laughable.


By acer905 on 3/15/2012 12:20:04 PM , Rating: 2
There is a difference. For WP7, Microsoft jumped into an established market with everything new. For an intel based Win8 tablet, they are using the evolution of their 20 year long number 1 selling worldwide OS as leverage. I don't think that WOA tablets will be very successful against iPad style tablets, but if Intel lives up to their claims, and can come up with an x86 design that will compete with ARM on power efficiency, while still being as powerful as current notebook CPUs, then there will be a game changer.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By xti on 3/15/2012 2:50:02 AM , Rating: 2
didnt we just have this whole ordeal in another article on DT where in the comments we all concluded that flash doesnt fkn matter anymore?


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By Commodus on 3/15/12, Rating: -1
RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By DFranch on 3/15/2012 9:36:10 AM , Rating: 2
You sir are the very definition of the pompous Apple Fan. It is your "I'm superior to everybody else, because I own an Idevice" attitude that I can't stand. Why is it so important to you that your iPad is better than what everybody else has? Why don't you want others to be satisfied with their android tablets? You remind me of the Jehovah's witnesses who go door to door trying to convince people to join their religion because it's better than your religion. Are you a prophet in the religion of Apple? Do you prey nightly to your lord and savior Steve Jobs now that he has ascended to heaven (or descended into hell)?

Or maybe it's none of these things and you're just trying to justify the money you spent (overpaid) for your iPhone/iPad?


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By Commodus on 3/15/12, Rating: 0
By retrospooty on 3/15/2012 12:52:13 PM , Rating: 3
Speaking of dead stereotypes.

As an Android fan, I can say that the new ipad looks very nice. I applaud Apple for raising the bar on resolution, both phone and tablet now. Great job. The iPad is good... You on the other hand, act like kind of a douche. The very nature of your original post above screams douchbaggery. BTW, Android 4 rocks in as many ways as the new iPad does. IOS is showing its age and needs a modern stimulus upgrade big-time. At this point in time I would say the iPad is the best hardware out there, but is being held back by its outdated OS.


By Demonhitman on 3/15/2012 1:50:13 PM , Rating: 2
What are most tabs used for right now is for multimedia and web. Flash right now is the standard really for multimedia on the web. I know Flash is (so is sliverlight) dead on mobile. The writing for both was on the wall with HTML 5 coming. The point I was trying to make was the reason why Apple need more apps. It takes a lot to run Flash (which Android shows) well. Apple said no Android said yes. So for Apple you need apps to do many of the thing you can do on web browser. With Android it not such a big deal. When HTML 5 becomes a standard (in like 2 years) then there will be no need for Flash or other media plug-ins really, it will all be apart of the web standard. As of right now you need Flash to really get the best multimedia web experience or you can do Apple and download 10-20 apps to do the same thing. Would/do you really need a YouTube, Facebook, bank, or other apps that come with most tabs if you can do it in web browser, nope. Yes Apps are easier to deal with on a phone screen but on tab not really. When you have 7" to 10" screen Apps seem limited and really weaker compared to Flash (which Android Tabs are showing with it's smaller App base) based web sites. So what are the 50 top apps on both anyway mainly games. Games Apps are what are downloaded the most on Tabs right now and most games are available on both so a big App base means nothing really. So what other apps/programs could people want/need if they dont want to play games all day? Office, 3dmax, Photoshop or other windows based programs/app maybe.

That where Windows 8 for tabs comes in. Office is going to be a part of (so say Microsoft) it. You know most company with real useful programs/app are going to remake their programs/app work for it, a lot of IT people are going to be happier deal with it then Apple/Android (which means company will by them) Tabs, and those people who are on the fence about Tabs (for whatever reason) can now justify (its for work or school) buying one now. Flash nor sliverlight work for Windows 8 tab right now but you know is coming. We all know that (even if a lot of us hate it) Windows is basically the standard OS for PC's at home, work, or school. Its going to sell and if it works as go as Microsoft says with their other stuff (phone, xbox, kinect, and skydive) its going to sell even better. Can it come out at 399 or less, yes. Look at netbooks, you can get them at 199 on up. With Asus coming out with 7" T3 and 10" T3 for 249 and 399. Im sure in another 6 months there can be Windows Tabs in that price range.

As far as Android being overpriced, both are. 3g/4g or WiFi there are a lot of Tabs that are way overpriced for what you can really use them for. That's why Fire is selling so well. For what most people use a Tab for it does ok. Can it do Flash, read eBooks and look at movies, yes! Will it over take Ipad with it's next update, maybe. Will Apple try can sue them, you can bet on it lol!!


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By sprockkets on 3/15/2012 12:37:57 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
I can already tell you what the Android fans are thinking:


Well this one is thinking "The ipad is too big, I want a 7" Asus tablet for $250. Guess I'll buy that one."

quote:
Direct HDMI is also absolutely moot. You need to buy a cable if you want to go wired anyways, and Apple's cable not only delivers HDMI but keeps the tablet powered.


So does MHL on my HTC sensation.

quote:
Tablets are all about apps. You don't stare at your home screen for five minutes, you use apps.


No, I stare at my home screen for a few moments to see if I need to go into my apps vs. going into each app to check stuff.

quote:
And, as for the quad-core processor... well, Anandtech's own benchmarks (mostly 3D) showed an iPad 2 already outrunning a Transformer Prime. Go quad-core on graphics and double the RAM and Apple's sitting in the stratosphere somewhere. Specs can matter, but don't believe the "bigger numbers are always better" myth -- it's what you're doing with the cores you've got that means the most.


After 60FPS you won't notice the difference. I'm not playing 3d games on tablets either, that's a waste of time. As long as it can do 1080p video, I don't care.

quote:
I was at Mobile World Congress. I used the new Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 and Galaxy Tab 2. Used Toshiba's new 7-inch tablet, Acer's quad-core Iconia Tab A700 and A510. Co-worker tried the new ASUS tablets. None of them scream out that you must buy them over an iPad; they're either extremely conservative tablets that are dead in the water (Samsung) or no better than a Transformer Prime, which is nice but not that exciting. They don't have the apps, they don't have the responsiveness, and they certainly don't have that display.


It's obvious you are an apple fanboi. We're not. It's a good product, but ever since apple arbitrarily killed google voice for no reason whatsoever, plus their endless lawsuits, I chose never to support apple. EVER.


By sprockkets on 3/15/2012 12:43:15 AM , Rating: 2
Oh and yes, I know apple let Google Voice back in, only after 13 months and due to the FTC threatening to sue them if they didn't.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By testerguy on 3/15/12, Rating: -1
RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By sprockkets on 3/15/2012 8:35:08 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
The fact that other devices do this is irrelevant. His point was that you can connect the iPad to a TV using HDMI, to disprove the argument sometimes made against iPad that you can't.


No, it was to address the fact I get charged while I use MHL on my phone just like the ipad.

quote:
It wasn't just Google voice they killed, it was numerous voice applications - and it was arguably largely influenced by AT&T. Either way, disliking Apple for that, while you're entitled to do it, is why it's obvious you're an Android fanboy and an Apple hater. That blinds your judgement.


Right. That's why they approved it in the first place, ATT is on record as NOT banning it, didn't ban it on any other phone, makes no sense to ban it since it uses normal phone minutes anyhow, and the biggest reason of all, is apple's reason:

"We haven't banned Google voice, we are studying it."

Sorry if I stopped liking a company for irrationally banning apps on the whim of SJ's crusade against google or for suing over rounded rectangles. I already said the ipad is a good product, but I guess that still makes me a fanboi and hater.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By testerguy on 3/15/12, Rating: 0
By retrospooty on 3/15/2012 1:01:21 PM , Rating: 3
TG, why dont you jsut save yorself alot of time and effort typing and just copy/paste your standard resonse. Make i generic so you dont have to retype for each situation.

"Apple is right no matter what anyone says or does. All of Apples choices are perfect, and they can do no wrong".

See, this way you dont have to type so much.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By LordSojar on 3/15/2012 12:54:08 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
they don't have the responsiveness


Out of all your comments, this one bugs me the most, because it's just an outright lie told by a delusion mind.

I hate to break the little bubble Apple has built around you, but a Tegra3 tablet is MORE responsive than an Apple iPad of any generation thanks to the touch processing built into Tegra 3's 5th companion core. The hardware touch processing is second to none, and many many major companies agree. nVidia actually innovated something pretty cool, and they know it. So please, if you're going to belittle Android and all that jazz, that's fine... but don't lie.

Touch responsiveness on a Tegra 3 tablet is second to nothing in the world. Having supposedly used a Prime, you should know this. But, that's ok, ignore facts and replace them with idiocy; that's why Apple is the wealthiest company in the entire world.

The Transformer Infinity is everything the iPad 3 is, only with an even better camera, a much more beautiful chassis and those widgets you so casually just chose to attack for adding functionality to the device (are you that daft that you actually attack something useful because it wasn't invented by Apple?)

Oh, and HDMI cables are $5... just throwing that out there.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By nurbsenvi2 on 3/15/12, Rating: 0
RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By LordSojar on 3/15/2012 4:13:21 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
have you used iPad? it's soooo much more responsive you are the one who is delusional.


Yep, have one 2 feet from me currently. My wife uses it on a daily basis, and I have more than enough screen time with it.

It's not more responsive than my Prime, not by a long shot, especially in things like Sketchbook Pro, etc.

Tegra 3's touch processing is just that, actual hardware driven, fully dedicated on SoC touch processing at nominal power usage. The iPad doesn't have that (until they copy it off nVidia and claim they invent it that is...)

So, no, it's not more responsive. Please stop spreading lies, thanks! Apple doesn't shit rainbows and unicorns, nor does Google. Ice Cream Sandwich is more modern than iOS. iOS has more apps. At the end of the day, it comes down to the user's experience with the device; Apple delivers a good one, as does Samsung as does ASUS.

All this idiocy is getting really old. My ASUS Transformer Prime is as good as your iPad 2/3. Ok? It's AS GOOD AS IT. Your Apple product isn't lesser than mine nor is it better. Don't degrade my product in an effort to make you feel better about your $499 spent. My Prime does what I want and what I need of it, and it does it in a sleek, seamless manner which I prefer. If your iPad 3 does the same for you, more power to you buddy! Just SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT TO ME. That's all I think really needs to stop happening here; Apple users are snobs and Android users have nerdgasms. Knock it off...


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By testerguy on 3/15/12, Rating: -1
By ShaolinSoccer on 3/15/2012 5:13:51 AM , Rating: 2
You're an absolute APPLETARD. Just Youtube any Transformer Prime video and you can clearly see it's just as fast as an iPad2.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By mutatio on 3/15/12, Rating: 0
By mcnabney on 3/15/2012 9:30:34 AM , Rating: 2
The fluidity of the i-stuff is based upon the use of the GPU to control the interface. Google chose to use the CPU instead - probably to ensure the greatest compatibility. The GPU is much more efficient at this. This Android shortcoming has been addressed by Tegra3 by using a hardware accelerator for the touchscreen itself.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By Reclaimer77 on 3/15/2012 1:00:24 AM , Rating: 5
Uhhh I'm an "Android fan" (whatever that is) and I'm thinking this is a great tablet, like the iPad2 was.

What turns me off about Apple is the way they do things, the restrictions they place on the user with arbitrary decisions like calling all Flash use "for porn", and the walled garden approach. Plus this blatant bullyism and patent trolling tactic by them in an obvious attempt to kill competition is disgusting personally.

The hardware itself is great, no denying that. I personally wouldn't pay this much for a tablet. For what this costs, I can build a bare bones Ivy Bridge PC kit which is far more useful for me. But if Apple can command a 50+% profit margin on each of these, obviously they have a compelling product for consumers.

Side note, not sure what the big deal is about Airplay though. I view tablets as media receivers. Using one to stream media to something else is totally backwards to me and not ideal. Plus, honestly, who has Apple TV anyway?


By retrospooty on 3/15/2012 7:35:47 AM , Rating: 2
"Uhhh I'm an "Android fan" (whatever that is) and I'm thinking this is a great tablet, like the iPad2 was. What turns me off about Apple is the way they do things"

2nd'ed


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By Commodus on 3/15/2012 7:38:36 AM , Rating: 1
You're conflating things here.

Apple never said Flash was for porn -- Jobs was arguing that the laissez-faire attitude towards Android app restrictions was for porn (which was a specious argument on his part, but that's another story).

Its patent tactics are a bit overmuch, but there's zero question that certain companies were simply trying to freeload off of Apple's work. Ever seen a non-US Samsung smartphone? Notice that big, central, iPhone-like home button that is mysteriously absent on every other Android phone, and which mysteriously disappears when that phone is brought to the US? Yeah... Samsung is fully aware it's copying Apple, and it had to be forced to do otherwise.

The key for AirPlay is that you don't have to wait for your media hub to get a feature to share content, and you don't have to break your experience if you want to move something you've been watching or hearing to a better source. And about 2.8 million people bought Apple TVs in 2011; another million or so of the current generation in 2010, and more in 2012. Several times more than Google TV or any other networked media hub.


By corduroygt on 3/15/2012 9:53:53 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
And about 2.8 million people bought Apple TVs in 2011; another million or so of the current generation in 2010, and more in 2012. Several times more than Google TV or any other networked media hub

Protip: HTPCs (including mac mini), PS3's, Xbox 360's, media streamers such as WDTV Live, and Smart TV's are all network media hubs, and they vastly outnumber Apple TV sales.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By nafhan on 3/15/2012 10:39:48 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
there's zero question that certain companies were simply trying to freeload off of Apple's work...Notice that big, central, iPhone-like home button
First of all the round home button is a design issue - not a patent issue. Second, (I've said this before) if that's enough to confuse someone into thinking they're getting an iPhone, that mostly just says something about the intelligence level of the person buying the product. Not to say that design should never be defensible, but the only people who think consumers are actually as stupid as you are alleging are the people defending Apple's IP rampage.

Also, Apple (and every other tech company) "freeloads" off the work of those who have come before them. It's how advancements in technology happen. The difference now is that the legal system surrounding IP has problems, and Apple (and others, to a lesser degree) are taking advantage of that. The system is off balance to the point that it strongly favors large companies who have a lot of money and are willing to use that money to patent everything regardless of prior art or obviousness. This does not benefit the consumer!


By Reclaimer77 on 3/15/2012 12:42:22 PM , Rating: 2
Uhhh so it's a gimped Xbox Media Center or PS3 with an Apple logo on it? Again, no thanks. Not for me.

Or a better analogy is Apple TV is a crippled Western Digital Live TV Plus with no browser, slaved to iTunes, and less than stellar codec support. You can't even stream from your OSX machine to the Apple TV, wtf is that all about? A $50 Roku does more stuff, and better, than this Apple TV. Apple TV's Netflix app also performs at an unacceptable level. 13 seconds to start a video? Unacceptable.

Once again I simply cannot consider buying yet another Apple product with the arbitrary walled garden environment they want to place me in. The device is so irrevocably chained to iTunes, a service I don't even use, there's simply NO WAY you can recommend this device. Anandtech said it best, as always:

Apple imposes basic limits on what you can play on the Apple TV. The problem I have with the Apple TV is it feels like a product with a lot of wasted potential. You can make arguments for OS X, the iPhone and even the iPad, but with the Apple TV despite its lower pricing it’s just not complete enough. You can watch some TV shows but not others, so you have to keep cable. And those that you can watch don’t stream live, you get them 24 hours later - so you might as well use Hulu or wait for the Boxee Box. I get that this aspect isn’t Apple’s fault, but the others are.

There’s no way to stream your OS X desktop to the Apple TV. That alone would be a killer feature, the Apple version of Intel’s WiDi.


By StinkyWhizzleTeeth on 3/15/2012 2:04:22 AM , Rating: 2
Android will catch up eventually, but for most people it is still better because of the greater number, and higher quality, of tablet specific apps. But that will not last.

Google just got started a few months ago. It finally has a mature tablet OS, and it will quickly dominate in the low to mid price range. More quickly than it took to overpass the iPhone, since people are already familiar with it. Plus lower price tablets will sell in far higher quantities. This will obviously attract developers. And again, there are a large number of developers familiar with the cellphone version of Android. Plus lots of Linux developers who make great free software.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By TSS on 3/15/2012 3:53:32 AM , Rating: 2
I was thinking that i still don't buy offscreen tests.

It's no good rendering stuff "off screen". it's never actually going to be used "off screen".

It's no good as a synthetic comparison either since the Ipad 3 is constantly pushing 4 times the pixels. and 60 fps "rendering a complex 3D scene" doesn't tell me shiat either. 3ds mark 2001 has "complex 3D scenes" but i'm pretty sure my PC can run that at ludicrous speed.

And limiting a benchmark to the screens refresh rate is just insane. If it can't go any faster, then how the hell has my monitor been able to display 200+ FPS for oh, forever?

This article tells me *nothing*. But even if it did, i wouldn't buy apple even if it was required by law. I simply do not agree with their business practices.

And i;m not an android fan. Infact, i use a 8 year old LG "dumbphone" with it's most advanced features, bluetooth 1.0, a now defunct IMAP and, get this, a blazing 640x480 VGA camera! Don't have any tablets or any other mobile devices.

But if my phone breaks i'll get an android smartphone. Cause i like em cheap, and apple don't come cheap.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By BZDTemp on 3/15/2012 5:11:34 AM , Rating: 1
Since you're doing the Apple vs. Android thing let me list a few issues I have with the iPads - they are pretty much all caused by Apple's desire for control.

1. No USB storage support. You can't hook up a hard disk, camera, memory stick... and access the files on it.

2. The iPad can't act as a USB drive. To transfer files to the iPad you must jump through loops where it could have been so much easier. My camera, my phone and pretty much anything will act as a USB drive if connected to a PC or Mac, but Apple devices will not.

3. No Flash. Say what you want about issues with Flash but I want freedom of choice not an Apple prison.

4. Apps. I could perhaps accept the App Store control Apple holds if they ensured quality and was open and fair about their requirements but neither is true. There is crap and even money scam apps in the store and what is allowed and what falls to Apples censorship is random.

The iPads are nice but they could be so much better if Apple wasn't being dicks. It's funny and sad that a company which once took pride in being different and honest has become worse than even Microsoft and Oracle combined. Apple need to watch their 1984 add again and then look in the mirror.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By Commodus on 3/15/2012 8:05:18 AM , Rating: 1
1. Camera adapter works for SD cards and direct camera connections. Wireless storage works too.

2. There's actually some file system-related reasons as to why. On the Galaxy Nexus, Google decided it was more important to have contiguous storage than to enable the usual USB drive support; Apple's in the same position. It limits you in some ways, but it also means you don't end up with 5GB of wasted space because you wanted USB support.

3. Adobe is dropping mobile Flash because it joined Apple in seeing that HTML5 is superior. Dead argument.

4. The overall bar for apps is still higher, sorry. Not to mention that Google's mobile VP Andy Rubin openly despises tablet-native apps; he only wants universal apps, and he does nothing to help you find tablet-native apps on Google Play. Which platform as a tablet developer would you rather support?

Also: there's a hilarious irony to you trying to make the 1984 Orwellian parallel with Google. You know, the company that wants to know everything about you, betrayed net neutrality for the sake of a deal with Verizon, and is currently under FTC investigation for anti-competitive behavior. Want to not be a hypocrite? Drop every Android product you own. Immediately.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By B3an on 3/15/2012 8:52:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Adobe is dropping mobile Flash because it joined Apple in seeing that HTML5 is superior. Dead argument.


You're making stuff up, like most iTards. Flash is superior and will remain superior for years to come. Try running HTML5 games on a phone, then run Flash games, and watch as the Flash games run at literally 10x the frame rate AND have better graphics. Infact, theres countless videos of this on youtube. I also make games in both formats so i know what i'm talking about. Flash is FAR more capable and has by far the best dev tools.

The reason Flash was dropped for mobile is because Win 8 will not support it on ARM, and because making a all the different Flash players for tons of devices and Android versions got out of hand.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By KPOM1 on 3/15/2012 9:18:46 AM , Rating: 2
Flash is so superior that its developer is dropping it because Microsoft won't support it and there are too many versions out there for Android.

Yes, that makes perfect sense to me. We have a superior product, so let's cancel development of it.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By RaV3NNN on 3/15/2012 10:36:46 AM , Rating: 2
Its plain, simple and obvious. Most apple users have no technical knowledge what so ever. They buy the new, flashing and pretty product from who THEY think is the best. It comes down to hardware and the simple fact that these tablets cant do anything to graphically intense no matter how strong they are. Games have good frame rates on both of them and that's that. It is irrelevant to compare them. Neither is better than the other. If I had to choose it would be android for flexibility. Apple keeps you stuck in their world without modification. Android is the opposite. ..


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By BSMonitor on 3/15/2012 10:50:33 AM , Rating: 1
NO ONE with a life wants to spend their life customizing their phone!!!!!!


By Cheesew1z69 on 3/15/2012 11:02:46 AM , Rating: 2
And because you say so it must be true? No, sorry...


By Commodus on 3/15/2012 10:46:16 AM , Rating: 2
Apparently you've never actually read anything Adobe said.

Dropping Flash had zero to do with Windows 8. Everything to do with believing HTML5 is the superior option, both for market reach and cross-platform support. A direct quote from Adobe's blog:

quote:
However, HTML5 is now universally supported on major mobile devices, in some cases exclusively. This makes HTML5 the best solution for creating and deploying content in the browser across mobile platforms. We are excited about this, and will continue our work with key players in the HTML community, including Google, Apple, Microsoft and RIM, to drive HTML5 innovation they can use to advance their mobile browsers.


It's not hard to read the subtext: Apple drove HTML5 adoption (yes, partly by being stubborn over Flash). Windows 8 Flash support on ARM? Not even mentioned. Given that Windows tablets are already a tiny niche, a subset of a future version of that niche wasn't dictating Adobe's practices.


RE: Preempting Android fan responses
By elmikethemike on 3/15/2012 8:59:19 PM , Rating: 2
He didn't make anything up. Adobe is done with Flash and moving on. Flash is some of the most malware-prone, inefficient crap to ever grace the internet. If it were the opposite, everyone would support it. Sorry, you're just wrong.

And for people that are all about open standards, I find the arguments against HTML5 vs Flash hilarious. Cherry picking left and right.


By elmikethemike on 3/15/2012 9:02:47 PM , Rating: 2
By x10Unit1 on 3/15/2012 4:28:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
4. The overall bar for apps is still higher, sorry. Not to mention that Google's mobile VP Andy Rubin openly despises tablet-native apps; he only wants universal apps, and he does nothing to help you find tablet-native apps on Google Play. Which platform as a tablet developer would you rather support?


Honestly, I think the drive to have a universal app for both tablet and phone could be a good thing and I believe that is what ICS was meant to provide. Having the same application function the same with the exception of the screen size could be a really awesome feature for an app to have.

I don't know much about the development side for apple but I thought this is what they did as well?


By VoodooChicken on 3/15/2012 12:38:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
"But it doesn't have widgets, theoretically more freedom with apps, a microSD slot, or a quad-core processor! It's inherently inferior!"


I wasn't thinking this. You don't know me at all!!!!! :(


"So, I think the same thing of the music industry. They can't say that they're losing money, you know what I'm saying. They just probably don't have the same surplus that they had." -- Wu-Tang Clan founder RZA














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