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Ford is quick to point out how much superior the Focus Electric is compared to the Nissan Leaf

Ford officially announced its Ford Focus Electric at last year's CES. A little over a year later, Ford is announcing the EPA ratings for the 5-seat hatchback.
The Focus Electric is rated at 110 miles per gallon equivalent (MPGe) in the city and 99 MPGe on the highway (105 MPGe combined). Ford is quick to boast that the Focus Electric's combined rating is 6 MPGe better than the Nissan Leaf. For comparison, here are the combined MPGe ratings for some other electric and plug-in hybrids on the market:
Ford also points out that the Focus Electric has more passenger space, a faster charging system, and a slightly longer driving range (76 miles versus 73 miles) than the Leaf. However, while the Focus Electric may have better specs and economy ratings than the Leaf, you'll pay for it out of your wallet. The Focus Electric has a base MSRP of $39,995 versus $35,200 for the Leaf before a $7,500 tax credit.
“Ford is giving customers the power of choice for leading fuel economy regardless of what type of vehicle or powertrain technology they choose,” said Eric Kuehn, chief nameplate engineer, Focus Electric. “The Focus and Fusion are great examples of how we transformed our fleet of cars, utilities and trucks with leading fuel efficiency.”

The Focus Electric is powered by a 123hp electric motor and a 23 kWh lithium-ion LG Chem battery pack.
Ford recently announced that the upcoming Ford Fusion Energi would have an EPA rating of 100 MPGe.

Source: Ford

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By Keeir on 3/3/2012 1:29:41 AM , Rating: 1
Hello Corduroygt.

As usual, you show your inability to asses statistics.

#1. Your statistic is old. In 2011, it was 70 months.
#2. Your statistic is average. In fact, the statistic you quote implies a large percentage keep their new cars more than 70 months. (Median is different than mean, but lets just say its close to 50%)
#3. Cars have this thing called resale/residual value. VERY few cars are scrapped at 66k miles, 100k miles, or even 150k miles.

The Average AGE of a registered car in 2011 was ... 10.8 years!

That means that roughly 50% of the car currently on the road in 2011 have more than 145,000 miles on them, -right now-.

Clearly, people are driving a significant number of cars well past 150k. 200k/250k miles is more like a lifetime now. And future fuel savings WILL increase the residual price you get for a car. It certainly has for Hybrids which overall have a higher residual value than other cars.

However, at no point did I refer to the market in general.

I do keep cars for more than 150,000+ miles.
I would be paying more than 20,000 in gas today to fuel a standard Focus SFE.
I would be paying less than 5,000 in electricity to charge an electric Focus.
I would consider 15,000 over the length of a car to be a potential incentive for people like like to keep cars more than 150,000+ mile.

Too bad this Ford Electric is priced so high that its makes it hard to justify living with the restrictions.. as I noted.

Reading Comprehension is another thing you need to practice a bit more.

A final note,

Kelley Blue Book estimates the 5 year cost of Owning a base 2012 Chevy Volt at ~37,500 (With 7,500 Government Rebate and no State Incentives)

Kelley Blue Book estimates the 5 year cost of Owning a base 2012 VW GTI with Automatic is over ~40,000

But hey, we all know its perfectly economically acceptable to choose something like a VW GTI, but its not economically acceptable to choose an electric!

By corduroygt on 3/3/12, Rating: 0
By corduroygt on 3/3/2012 9:05:46 AM , Rating: 1
You are also wrong about the Volt base, it costs $40,354 to own in my zipcode for 5 years vs. $32,800 for the Civic EX, $33,286 for the Elantra Limited, and $36K for the Focus SEL.

By Keeir on 3/3/2012 10:36:43 AM , Rating: 2

Reading Comprehension. If you read, you'd discover that 40,354 number include 0 Federal Rebate. Essentially your saving Kelley Blue Book estimates in your area a Volt over 5 years would cost ~33,000.

But all of this is besides the point.

"fair" 70 month costs would do this

Leaf, Prius, Civic, Volt, Civic Si

Which, as I have noted before, are on paper, not bad spots for the cars to be. Its too bad EVs and PHEVs are not the CHEAPEST and MOST CAPABLE cars on the road. But I wonder if the people constantly harping on EVs and PHEVs for this reason really drive the cheapest cars on the road either... or if they make emotional choices to value certain activities.

By corduroygt on 3/3/2012 1:04:29 PM , Rating: 1
Nope it includes the rebate (- sales tax) in that site, no matter which zip code I use:

State Fees ($4,835)

By Keeir on 3/3/2012 3:18:30 PM , Rating: 2
Hm. I see something very different. I get ~45,000 with no negative values being listed (which is why I quoted ~37,500)

By corduroygt on 3/3/2012 3:52:10 PM , Rating: 2
Here is what it gives for me, I use VA zip code, which does not have any State incentives for PHEV vehicles. I get the same result for NJ or MD zip codes as well.

By Keeir on 3/3/2012 6:19:56 PM , Rating: 2
Interesting. I am mobile right now, maybe that's why...

I find that chart fairly accurate.

So its pretty much like I have said? The Volt is more expensive than a Civic but less than a Civic Si over 70 months?

By corduroygt on 3/3/2012 8:11:45 PM , Rating: 2
The Civic Si is a much higher performance bracket than the Volt, yet it's 5-year cost according to KBB is still less, at $36200. Honda's retain their value really well, so that's not that surprising since the biggest cost is depreciation in all cases.

By Spuke on 3/4/2012 6:42:09 PM , Rating: 2
Reading Comprehension. If you read, you'd discover that 40,354 number include 0 Federal Rebate.
I'm not sure we can count the entire $7500 tax credit in totality. Tax credits can only be applied to taxes you owe. So you only get the full $7500 IF you owe $7500 in taxes. If you owe $800, you can only use $800 of that credit. If you get a refund, you don't get any of it. Also, it can only be applied once and it is non-transferable. Only the original owner can use it.

By Sivar on 3/3/2012 3:09:49 PM , Rating: 2
FWIW, I think your posts on this thread have been very informative and level-headed.

By Mint on 3/3/2012 3:55:29 PM , Rating: 2
High efficiency cars retain more of their value, because the used car buyer will also pay attention to what he'll pay for gas.

If I bought a used electric car with the intention to drive it 90k miles, I see value in fueling it with $3k of electricity instead of $12k+ of gas, so I'll pay $5-10k more for it depending on what I think I can sell it for.

A 5-year old regular Focus may sell for $6k, while an electric Focus could be worth $14k. That difference is half of the (after rebate) cost premium right there.

By corduroygt on 3/3/2012 4:05:24 PM , Rating: 1
The life of batteries is a very real concern with EV's so they won't retain as much of their value. A 5 year old gas tank still has the same capacity as a brand new one. Can't say the same about batteries.

By Mint on 3/3/2012 4:28:22 PM , Rating: 2
It's a concern, but it's probably not going to be a problem. As another poster mentioned above, they're designed for 3000+ full charge cycles (200K+ miles) while still retaining 80% of initial charge. After 5 years, it should have well over 90% capacity left.

While a 5-year old gas tank has the same capacity, a 5-year old car usually won't go as far with it, and could easily lose 10% fuel economy.

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