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  (Source: Gigaom)
Computer maker says no to progress, drops another shovel of dirt on webOS's grave

In a further blow to those hoping for a webOS revival Jon Rubinstein, the iconic Palm CEO who supervised the creation of the webOS-powered Pre, has been released from his executive post at Hewlett-Packard Comp. (HPQ).  

I. A Failure of Vision

HP has been on a mess roller coaster ride over the last year shuffling CEOs and even contemplating spinning off the heart of its company -- the consumer PC business.  The change in leadership has also led HP to effectively abandon its hope of being a viable player in the mobile tablet/smart phone space.

The company blew $1.2B USD to acquire Palm Inc. in April 2010, in what seemed like a promising move for both companies at the time.  Palm still had a legion of firm supporters, and while it was no longer the iPhone competitor it was once was (and which Android became) it still had a shot.

That shot was killed by HP's floundering board and hapless new executive leadership.  The webOS product line was officially discontinued in Aug. 2011.  Meanwhile HP seemed to be combing through its ranks removing all the one-time supporters [1][2][3] of webOS.

Seppuku wide
"I didn't know there was such a thing as corporate suicide, but now we know that there is.  It's just astonishing." -- Ex-HP Board Chairman Tom Perkins on the company's struggles
[Image Source: Euro-Synergies]

After HP became the second major company in two years to fire Léo Apotheker from its CEO spot for poor performace, new CEO Meg Whitman reported shopped around webOS to prospective buyers.  But her asking price of $1.2B USD -- what HP had paid for it before it desecrated the remains of Palm -- was reportedly considered laughable by serious buyer prospects like Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd.'s (KS:005930).

Unsurprisingly no buyer was found.

II. Jon Rubinstein Departs to More Fertile Shores

Today HP has open sourced webOS, essentially giving away for free the product that months before it had hope to get a billion dollars for.

HP was quiet about the departure of Mr. Rubinstein.  They would only say, when reached for comment by The Verge, "Jon has fulfilled his commitment and we wish him well."

Jon Rubinstein
Jon Rubinstein, father of the iPod and Palm Pre [Image Source: CellPassion]

Ultimately this is likely a smart career move for Mr. Rubinstein, who originally gained fame as the creator of the iPod at Apple, Inc. (AAPL).  Mr. Rubinstein has put out solid products at companies who have ambition, companies who have the willingness to take risks in the mobile space -- attributes that are sorely lacking at HP.

Sadly for webOS fans, this is one more sign that the beloved platform is taking its final ride into the glow of the twilight.  As HP reassigns the remainder of the webOS skeleton crew who weren't laid off yet, Mr. Rubinstein's departure serves as perhaps the final reminder that once there was a company named Palm, a company with two decades of bold mobile vision, a company whose final spark of life was extinguished by HP.

(AllThingsDigitals reports that Mr. Rubinstein has been absent from the office for months, in silent protest of Mr. Apotheker's decision to kill webOS, and that HP only now got around to clarifying his status.)

Sources: The Verge, AllThingsD



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RE: sigh...
By zlandar on 1/27/2012 4:01:01 PM , Rating: 3
I have a Touchpad during the $99 fire sale.

Honestly I'm not sure what the fuss is about. I use it only for web browsing, and frankly it's not a great experience at all. I find it very slow in loading web pages. It can't handle if I double tap the screen to zoom into text in a web page unless I let it finish loading the page completely.

The tablet is also fat and heavy. HP and Palm must have been on crack if they thought the Touchpad was going to be competitive against the iPad.


RE: sigh...
By WiseUp216 on 1/27/12, Rating: -1
RE: sigh...
By zlandar on 1/27/2012 4:27:38 PM , Rating: 2
I have a 20MB down/5 MB up connection with a E4200 router.

Yeah it's my small hands.


RE: sigh...
By JasonMick (blog) on 1/27/2012 4:32:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have a 20MB down/5 MB up connection with a E4200 router.

Yeah it's my small hands.

:-O

I take it there's municipal Wi-Fi and/or actual competition in your region?

(Vs. Comcast's local idea of "high speed" -- "up to 12 mbps" (down))

If only we were so fortunate... Yay monopoly!


RE: sigh...
By zlandar on 1/27/2012 4:40:34 PM , Rating: 2
Actually it's Comcast residential service lol.

It peaks at 20MB and varies from 15-20MB testing through speakeasy. The 5MB up is pretty constant.


RE: sigh...
By JasonMick (blog) on 1/27/2012 4:48:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It peaks at 20MB and varies from 15-20MB testing through speakeasy. The 5MB up is pretty constant.
They probably have a rival firm in your region, and are hence forced to perform...

There's long been no cable internet competitors in my region.

A couple of the local cities had municipal Wi-Fi and they were enjoying like 20-30 Mbps, but in the rest of the area we got like half that at best.

I tend to tether or use Wi-Fi connections, as I dropped Comcast's junk service pretty quickly.

Uverse just rolled into town, though, and they're starting to crank up some faster offerings, so I'm thinking of switching to them.

But yea, maybe Comcast in some regions chooses to be kind, but in my regional experience they'll give you the junkiest service they can get away with when there's no competition...


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/27/2012 5:03:34 PM , Rating: 2
If you are lucky enough to live where they have Cox cable, you can really soar... I have the 27mbps down - 6mbps up plan for $45. You can get the 55mbps down plan for $95. Way overkill, but Cox is really good. Always up, and never an issue.

http://ww2.cox.com/residential/arizona/internet/ul...


RE: sigh...
By Spuke on 1/27/2012 5:38:52 PM , Rating: 2
Cox has always been the shizzle.


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/27/2012 7:26:12 PM , Rating: 2
Yup, unlike Qwest, Comcast, and many others, you almost never hear a complaint about Cox. I have none. It works, its fast, and they never mess with you or do anything that pisses people off.


RE: sigh...
By Obujuwami on 1/27/2012 5:04:11 PM , Rating: 2
be careful with uverse, I was asking questions like "will I have fiber come directly into my house?" and the sales guys said yes. Instead they wanted to pull it from the 30+ year old 2-wire phone line. I told them to go stick it but in honesty, would it be so bad for them to offer FIOS like service? It would be getting ourselves ahead of the rest of the world and I know FIOS or its competitors are expanding along the east coast and Washington State (maybe even Portland area now).

Verizon has it right by pulling fiber to the house!


RE: sigh...
By Solandri on 1/28/2012 12:49:44 PM , Rating: 2
For very short runs, the old 2-wire Cat 3 phone lines can hit over 200 Mbps with current technology. I've heard 500 Mbps is in development. If the provider does it right, there's nothing wrong with doing the street-to-house hookup over copper. At least not until we start getting Internet speeds measured in Gbps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_high_speed_digit...
VDSL2 is commonly used to network hotels and apartment buildings.

The problem with running fiber to the house is that it puts the transition from fiber back to copper (your network/phone/TV cables) inside your house. That box sits in your home (mine is in the garage) and requires a battery backup in case of power failure. And after the 1 year warranty, it's your responsibility to maintain and replace the battery (lead-acid batteries used as battery backups typically only last 2-3 years). If the box should stop working, I suspect I'd have to pay for it too.

If the fiber ends at the street and hooks up to your home via copper, that box sits underneath the street. It's then serviced by the ISP's battery backup or backup power lines. Maintaining and replacing the batteries and the unit is their responsibility and their cost. Maybe in the future we'll have cable-modems which plug directly into the fiber. But because FIOS carries Internet, TV, and phone service, you still need a box sitting in your garage to convert the fiber back to copper. As long as any one of those still relies on copper wires, you will need the box.


RE: sigh...
By icrf on 1/27/2012 10:26:39 PM , Rating: 2
I'm in Chattanooga with symmetric 30 Mbps municipal fiber. Comcast in the area has 25 down / 5? up, which I didn't have any complaints about when I had it. I've had DNS problems with both the fiber provider (EPB) and Comcast, but point to Google's DNS servers solves that quite well.

I also have a firesale TouchPad and the OS has a lot of good features, it just isn't polished or tuned. Everyone isn't ga-ga over what it is, but rather what it could have been if the investment were made. Faulting a double tap feature or loading speed in the browser doesn't take into account the OS itself and the whole card multitasking system, which was its real big feature. Android 4.0 is attempting something similar, but I don't think it's quite there.

While I don't hate WebOS, I don't love it, either. Once there's a nice, stable CM9 port available, I'm likely to jump ship. I'll probably end up putting CM9 on my HTC Thunderbolt, too.


RE: sigh...
By JediJeb on 1/27/2012 6:01:17 PM , Rating: 2
I wish I could get something like that. Where I live, 5 miles from a town of 20k people, the best offered is 1.5M down DSL from AT&T. My parents live out in the middle of nowhere 20 miles from the nearest town of 1500 people and the local independent phone service there is offering them 2M down DSL service for less than what I am paying. That little telco has been around for decades and has always offered service to 4 counties for less than half of what AT&T did and were the first to even put up cell towers for their independent cellphone service well before Cingular or anyone else provided service in that area. It just goes to show that AT&T is just too cheap to invest in good service to any area that isn't a metropolis.


RE: sigh...
By piroroadkill on 1/30/2012 5:38:58 AM , Rating: 2
Nah, I have a fully updated TouchPad, and comparing to my Desire HD using Opera Mobile, the scrolling is definitely choppier on the TouchPad, even though I have it overclocked to 1.8GHz.

It's a fun device to use though, clean, intuitive. The multitasking is especially nice. It needs work, some care and attention, but the makings of a great mobile OS are there.


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/27/2012 4:19:16 PM , Rating: 2
"Honestly I'm not sure what the fuss is about"

WebOS is one of those "what could have been" tragedies... Palms downfall was the hardware. They never were any good at it and always had problems going back to the first Treo.

WebOS has the awesome multitasking UI. If it were given time and money to "polish" the OS up a bit, and couple it with decent hardware it would have been incredible. The UI really lights up on a phone, more so than a tablet. It was actually designed by the same guy that designed IOS's UI. Palm hired him away from Apple after the first iPhone was released. Its sort of his 2nd run "if I could do it better, this is how I would have done it" take on UI.


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/27/12, Rating: 0
RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/27/2012 7:23:33 PM , Rating: 2
Not that this is about your loser RIM products, but like I said, WebOS really shines on a phone, like the Pre had 3 years ago. By the time RIM gets it out on a phone, RIM wont be RIM, it will be owned by another larger less inept company.

As it is now, I have a Droid 3 with an Alpha build of Cyanogenmod9 (Android 4). It has a similar multitasking UI. Not quite as good as WebOS, but decent enough. RIM has zero to offer over Android and IOS now, much less in a year when QNX comes out on a phone.


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/28/2012 10:22:21 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah yeah cry me a river, you got a lousy replica of what I had a year ago on my Playbook on your lousy hacky phone, big deal eh. In a year when they release Playbook OS 3.0 or 2.5 or something we'll see how your lousy late clone will stack up to it, har har har! :D


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/28/2012 11:09:56 PM , Rating: 2
You are clueless. Android 4 is freegin awesome. You have it on playbook a year ago? LOL RIM still doesn't have it ready on a phone and won't for 1 more year and you are acting like its a good thing. Your delusional.

Hey, enjoy the tombstone pic above, it will soon be true for RIM.


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/28/2012 11:46:35 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Android 4 is freegin awesome
So what? I've had much better OS on my Playbook a year ago. Good luck with catching up to RIM's progress on tablet front with that lousy Linux clone hehe :)))


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/29/2012 12:01:54 AM , Rating: 2
So your bragging that RIM had 1 year ago on a tablet what Palm had 3 years ago on a phone? That on the same product they just lost over 450 million dollars on? The same os they still don't have on a phone and won't for another year?

Wow, your definition of success really is in line with balsilie and lazardis.

You really are retarded. Please tell me you don't have children


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/29/2012 12:19:33 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
your definition of success
How do YOU define success then? Is it mediocre product with high sales or is it better product with low sales?


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/29/2012 7:50:46 AM , Rating: 2
"How do YOU define success then? Is it mediocre product with high sales or is it better product with low sales? "

That is the issue with you, you don't even understand the question, and then you don't see all the options even to your skewed version of the question.

Success would be making a great product that people love and buy it high quantities. That doesn't mean great product that no-one buys, nor does it mean a high selling product that inst great. Check Apple, and Samsung for reference products to see what that means.

On the negative end, unsuccessful would be making products, that are crappy (or in RIM's case, outdated=crappy) and people don't want. Most that have it, get it because their IT dept's gave it to them for free, and even that IT ship is sinking. Unsuccessful would be making products that are now sitting unsold on shelves because they aren't wanted, like RIM phones are today. Unsuccessful would be making a product that was meant to sell at $499 and then taking a $470 million dollar loss when you are forced to dump the price to $199 to sell them at all - like Playbook. Unsuccessful would be living in denial about all those things and not doing anything to change it. Unsuccessful would be living in denial about Android and iPhone's market impact and saying "Our customers dont want that type of phone, they want phones like our current products" and not doing anything at all to modernize their OS for 3 years after the iPhone was announced. Then they finally figured it out, figured that their own OS cant cut it, and they went with QNX. A good decision, but they are too late. As it is now there are no phones running it and wont be for a year.


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/29/2012 3:18:01 PM , Rating: 2
Oh yeah, now Playbook is outdated, with its web browser no one catch up to even today. Troll me some more!

I agree that they were late dumping old BB OS but whether it was too late to survibe is yet to be seen.


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/29/2012 9:32:26 PM , Rating: 2
"Oh yeah, now Playbook is outdated, with its web browser no one catch up to even today. Troll me some more!"

I meant the phones are outdated... The palybook isnt outdated, its just a total non-factor.

"I agree that they were late dumping old BB OS but whether it was too late to survibe is yet to be seen. "

Hallafreeginlooya!!! progress.


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/29/2012 11:18:42 PM , Rating: 2
Good thing you finally noticed progress although I was saying this like a year ago. You are a really slowly understanding guy :)

Apple caught RIM pants off and RIM is paying the price now for not reacting fast enough. Judging by my experience RIM made a strong comeback with Playbook (not sales wise, but product quality wise), the main point though is that it's not yet over for RIM, they may come back. I think it will get better for them once they start releasing QNX phones, 'cause they are learning from their experience with Playbook, using it as a testbed for their main product - handsets. I'd say this was a bold move for them to release a tablet as a testbed and it may pay off really well in the future.


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/30/2012 7:11:35 AM , Rating: 2
"Good thing you finally noticed progress although I was saying this like a year ago"

Progress was you admitting dumping the old BB OS was good. Not a year ago, 4-5 months ago you were saying BBOS 7 rocked and sales would go back up.

"I think it will get better for them once they start releasing QNX phones"

It would be nice. Like I always say, more competition = more innovation and lower prices for all consumers. But the market is saturated with IOS and ANdroid phones. It's hard to come out with an equal product and gain any traction. In order to win it back, RIM will need QNX to be better than IOS and Android, or at least offer compelling features they dont have... And its not releasing now, its been delayed and releasing in Q4 2012, IF they hit the newly moved back deadline.


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/30/2012 2:46:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
4-5 months ago you were saying BBOS 7 rocked and sales would go back up
And from this you made YOUR OWN conclusion that BB OS 7 is all RIM needs to survive. Then you made it look like it was MY conclusion, not YOURS. But I can see through your lies man. Are you that naive? Really? ;))
quote:
But the market is saturated with IOS and ANdroid phones
GROWING market. This little tiny detail about market being GROWING - you "lost" this detail, leaving no space for Nokia/MS tandem as well. You basically buried WP7 right now, did you realize that? I disagree with you, it can't be THAT bad. Both MS and RIM still have time to carve a decent niche for themselves.


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/30/2012 4:18:15 PM , Rating: 2
Whatever man. You keep calling me a troll, as if I have it out for RIM. I dont. I want more options, I want WebOS and RIM, and Win7 all to gain market share. I keep saying this, more options = more innovation, and lower prices for all. I call it like I see it, and I (and pretty much everyone else) sees a whole lot of bad, and not alot of good from RIM. I WANT RIM to succeed.

My distaste for RIM is out of disappointment at them managing their way into a deep hole. Not becasue I dislike them. Its just like watching a train wreck. A train that hurts us all, just a bit, if it fails.


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/30/2012 4:20:37 PM , Rating: 2
meant to add... "Both MS and RIM still have time to carve a decent niche for themselves. "

Yes, they do, but its not likely to happen, especially for RIM. You know, when your football team loses 12 games in a row, you kind of dont expect them to have a near-perfect game on the 13th week? Well, RIM lately is all fail.


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/30/2012 6:51:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
when your football team loses 12 games in a row, you kind of dont expect them to have a near-perfect game on the 13th week?
But what if that team was a world champion before starting to lose its game?
quote:
Its just like watching a train wreck
Nah, you just have a negative trolley whiney attitude, that's all.

While ship hit a rock and started to sink you just run around yelling "THIS SHIP IS GONE, ABANDON IT RIGHT NOW!!!" and you blissfully ignore the ship's crew and its fixes that slow down sinking over time. I keep pointing out the efforts of the ship crew to stop the leak and return the ship to normal, while you just cry and spell the doom, as if the ship NOT JUST HIT THE ROCK, but as if THE SHIP HAS SUNK A LONG TIME AGO AND IS ALREADY RUSTING ON THE OCEAN'S FLOOR. You know there is a big difference between hitting a rock and actually touching the ocean's floor.

You just PRETEND that these are the same. "The ship hit the rock IS EQUAL TO the ship is down on the floor with dead crew being eaten by crabs" <- this is your mantra. That's why you appear so whiney and trolley to me.

This guy also summarized your whining pretty nice: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=23875...


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/30/2012 9:03:17 PM , Rating: 2
Nice trade off of analogies. LOL

Only in mine, I am not saying the ship is sinking, I am saying the ship's value is declining and salvage dealers are starting to make offers. Management may have to sell soon.

In yours, your ships crew is not getting anything right. Captain Schettino, get back on the boat! No, that boat is sinking. Captain Schettino, I know the boat is sinking, now get back on that boat. No, I dont wanna get back on the boat. CAptain, its your job to stay on the boat until everyone is safe. No. Look at it, its on its side and sinking!!!

We'll see.


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/30/2012 3:47:19 PM , Rating: 2
Hey found a nice reply to your trolling, check it out
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=23875...


RE: sigh...
By piroroadkill on 1/30/2012 5:40:33 AM , Rating: 2
Wait, a Droid 3 running Cyanogen counts as "lousy, hacky". Damn. Sounds like a great combination to me...


RE: sigh...
By Cerin218 on 1/29/2012 7:11:07 AM , Rating: 2
RIM is a chicken running around with it's head cut off. Dead, but doesn't know it yet. I hear VERY little positive about RIM. Most of us laugh when the Crackberry addicts get their contact and calendars corrupted. Not that I don't think it's cool that in order to push mail I have to have third party software running on a pc all the time to hand mail from Outlook to my phone. Security by limited functionality. BES is a joke too.


RE: sigh...
By JasonMick (blog) on 1/27/2012 4:25:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have a Touchpad during the $99 fire sale.

Honestly I'm not sure what the fuss is about. I use it only for web browsing, and frankly it's not a great experience at all. I find it very slow in loading web pages. It can't handle if I double tap the screen to zoom into text in a web page unless I let it finish loading the page completely.

The tablet is also fat and heavy. HP and Palm must have been on crack if they thought the Touchpad was going to be competitive against the iPad.

As a fellow Touchpad clearance addition owner (I got mine for $88 -- thanks discount code), I somewhat agree with you and somewhat disagree with you.

I never have owned an iPad, but I stayed with friends for a week about a year ago and played with their first-gen iPad during some of my free time every evening during my stay (generously they did not complain). So I compare my uninitiated experiences with the two devices and have several thoughts.

1. The TouchPad is not that far behind the first generation iPad.

The TouchPad was being prototyped back in 2010 soon after the original iPad's launch and Mark Hurd's push to purchase Palm. It might have been released in holiday 2010. But since Day 1, Leo Apotheker was looking to marginalize Palm and he dragged out its release to August, while failing to devote the effort necessary to properly port webOS to a large screen device.

Basically the TouchPad is a blown up version of the Pre's OS. In a way this isn't a bad thing, as the Pre's OS has some nice features and is reasonably smooth/easy to navigate. But on a big-screen device its flaws start to show.

2. No advertising app support KILLS the appeal of the device.

I hardly use my TouchPad anymore... haven't touch it in months. Why? Because there are very few free apps for it (and even the paid selection is somewhat poor). I went through literally EVERY free app in their catalog and downloaded any that sounded good. There were only about 5-10 decent sounding free games in my recollection.

Upon inspection it was clear why this was -- there were no ads. Palm/HP never bothered to incorporate advertising into their SDK, hence alienating many developers. (Or if they had it, it must have been fatally undocumented/problematic as even the freeware Angry Birds which has advertising on nearly EVERY OTHER platform had no ads.)

3. The interface feels sluggish compared to HoneyComb and the iPad 2.

The TouchPad would have been a decent interface competitor to the first gen iPad, though not quite as good. Stacking up against the more refined Android Honeycomb tables and the iPad 2, I can see the frustration you describe.

The problem was that HP invested no money or effort into a proper port. It basically put out a tablet with 2011 hardware and 2010 software/interface.

Obviously the webOS team had something to do with this, but I find it hard to believe that the majority of the culpability doesn't lie with Leo Apotheker/the HP board.

4. Don't judge webOS by the TouchPad.

Again, remember webOS is remembered most fondly for the Pre phones. Even Anand who traditionally gravitates towards iPhones spoke glowingly about the Pre.

Money problems unfortunately turned this slow start into a bitter end, first with the sale, and then with the webOS termination. But the Pre was an awesome device when it first came out, at least from what I've read and from the brief time I've played with it in store.

The problem is that the bankruptcy/financial woes foobared Palm from taking the next step and then they got picked up by HP who under Hurd might have done a good job in restoring the brand name, but under the disgraced German reject they dredged up was totally abused, sealing its fate.


RE: sigh...
By zlandar on 1/27/2012 4:30:14 PM , Rating: 2
I knew the app market was going to be dead out of the gate.

I just expected a much better web browsing experience.

Trying to view streaming video through the different sites (ESPN, Hulu, etc) is very hit-and-miss.


RE: sigh...
By EnzoFX on 1/27/2012 5:06:21 PM , Rating: 2
My Experience with the Touchpad is that it's just fine for simple web browsing. It's also great that is supports flash sites (never thought I'd say that).

Anyways, put ICS via CM9 and this thing screams. Even with the occasional bug (Great for a first alpha build), it is amazing. Not going back to WebOS, sadly. The vast market is icing on my cake for me (Usually vice versa for others =P).


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/28/12, Rating: 0
RE: sigh...
By Reclaimer77 on 1/29/2012 9:16:02 PM , Rating: 1
Pirks the Playbook is a nice piece of hardware. I have one that runs Android and I love it. It's called a Kindle Fire. Maybe you've heard of it?

http://techland.time.com/2011/11/16/whats-inside-a...

And honestly, who buys a tablet JUST because of how good the browser is? That's software. I don't know about Apple, but there's handfuls of browsers available for Android. I seriously doubt RIM made a browser that's so revolutionary nobody can possibly match it.

Just seems like all you're saying is, "Playbook is the best because I bought one".


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/29/2012 9:30:16 PM , Rating: 2
"who buys a tablet JUST because of how good the browser is?" .... "Just seems like all you're saying is, "Playbook is the best because I bought one". "

Thats pretty much Pirks. One review had one good thing to say about it, so that's what he'll cling to in order to support his choice... Now ignore the 100's of overwhelmingly negative reviews and call anyone that tries to explain sane thinking to him a "troll" or a "liar", or simply on Google/APple's payroll.


RE: sigh...
By DeluxeTea on 1/29/2012 11:00:59 PM , Rating: 2
I don't even see anything about RIM mentioned till Pirks brought it up in response to a post of yours above.

Guess he's trolling for the sake of trolling.


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/30/2012 7:13:49 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly.


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/30/2012 2:39:40 PM , Rating: 2
I was just surprised people think WebOS tablet means anything. Obviously they haven't used Playbook. This is the power of the hype - everybody was so hyped up by WebOS from a few years ago that they didn't realize it has lost to RIM on tablets from the start. But with RIM being trolled right now of course most people, being dumb, ignored much better product.

With the release of Playbook OS 2.0 much ground for the anti-Playbook trolls will be lost, THEN things could get really interesting. We'll see :)


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/30/2012 4:10:49 PM , Rating: 2
"I was just surprised people think WebOS tablet means anything"

It doesnt. It was a total fail product. The reason it gets some mention is because WebOS had alot of potential. Palm totally blew it on a rushed , unpolished release, and pairing it with crappy hardware.

"everybody was so hyped up by WebOS from a few years ago that they didn't realize it has lost to RIM on tablets from the start"

I wouldnt say it lost. Both were released at $500, both had a fire sale to dump unsold inventory. The difference, Palm was already out of business, having been bought by HP, and HP had just announced they were dumping the whole WebOS business.

"With the release of Playbook OS 2.0 much ground for the anti-Playbook trolls will be lost"

Yes, all the anti-playbook trolls in your head will be lost (because that is the only place they seem to exist).


"THEN things could get really interesting"


RIM has to convince people to BUY it first... Good luck with that.


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/30/2012 8:30:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I wouldnt say it lost. Both were released at $500, both had a fire sale to dump unsold inventory. The difference, Palm was already out of business
You never looked at difference between the products, hence you are blind. I don't care who went out of what, is Palm dead or not, doesn't matter to me. What matters though is that Playbook was killing HP tablet NOT BECAUSE PALM WENT OUT OF BUSINESS or whatever you think up here. It was just much better product overall, I compared web browsing on both and on HP it's often horrendosuly slow while Playbook's UI is as slick as Apple's and even better in some places (multitasking related). Hence RIM killed HP, 'cause if anyone had a quarter of brain - he or she wouold always pick Playbook or iPad over HP. You can say Apple and RIM killed HP tablet together, whatever. Say what you want but I compared both tablets and I know what I'm talking about. Unlike most clueless trolls and clowns like cheesy or sojar.
quote:
RIM has to convince people to BUY it first
Doh, for people like you who defince success as "sale LOTS even if it's an inferior product" this is important, but RIM is more bothered with killing competitors in quality department, which they successfully did in first iteration. They even killed Apple in multitasking and web browsing, two very important areas on any tablet.

What I'm saying is that now with the release of Playbook OS 2.0 they removed a few minor drawbacks the anti-RIM trolls were clinging to. Like native email client, and a few popular games like Plants vs Zombies etc. Now WITHOUT these drawbacks I wonder what the reviews will look like, will anti-RIM trolls AKA "reviewers" find some other drawback (THIS BUTTON IS WRONG SHAPE, SO THIS TABLET IS CRAP DON'T BUY IT!!!) or will RIM kick the last bit of crap out of them.

Hence my saying about things getting interesting now.

In order to sell more Playbooks RIM has to silence the trolls, this requires polishing the product to such a degree they can't troll and whine about wrong shaped buttons and sh1t like that anymore. Looks like RIM finally understood this, I'm intrigued what happens next, who wins, trolls again or RIM.


RE: sigh...
By retrospooty on 1/30/2012 9:05:12 PM , Rating: 2
There are many battles going on in your head that arent going on in reality. That's about all I can say.


RE: sigh...
By Reclaimer77 on 1/30/2012 4:15:57 PM , Rating: 2
Playbook is a practically unknown product. There's no way there are "anti-Playbook" trolls lol. Come on.

quote:
Obviously they haven't used Playbook.


Because, obviously, nobody is buying the damn thing! Hello?


RE: sigh...
By Pirks on 1/30/2012 7:24:40 PM , Rating: 2
Reclaimer you don't know sh1t about Playbook reviews, majority of them took a quick look at it, and said "this sucks 'cause doesn't have angry birds and native email client". The idiots who wrote those reviews had no idea about other apps, about free office included with the OS, about webmail/gmail that kicks the crap out of older native email paradigm (oldfarts who wrote Playbook reviews couldn't understand how webmail could be better than native email clinet, 'cause they were oldfarts), about hardware quality, size, weight (both are advantageous over iPad but almost no one has noticed), look/design (definitely better than iPad too) and the modern microkernel OS inisde, iPad's older monolithic OS doesn't apply here. They paid no attention to slick multitasking unrivaled by any other ARM tablet including iPad, they paid no attention to fluid WebOS-like UI, to the best desktop-like web browser among ARM tablets. You're saying to me anti-RIM trolls do not exist after I read all this nonsense in multiple reviews retro was sending my way? You are totally clueless Reclaimer, go make your homework. Oh wait you can't, since you never used Playbook like I did. Too bad you have nothing to say on this then :)))


RE: sigh...
By kleinma on 1/27/2012 5:01:48 PM , Rating: 1
I agree. I got 2 (16 and 32). Gave the 16GB to my wife (even though for some reason it clearly had a more "white" backlight than the 32gb model I got which seemed dimmer).

Anyway, they both are pretty horrible for just about anything. Slow, clunky, webpages don't load right half the time. Can't view NFL.com period due to rendering issues.

The thing just sucks. Hell there was even a WebOS update just a week or 2 ago to address issues, but the thing still sucks and in no way could ever have given the iPad (as much as I don't like apple) any sort of competition, especially with its huge initial price tag.

If I was a head HP exec, I would have taken an iPad and a touchpad, and used them both for about an hour, and then I would have been able to make the very wise decision to stop everything and go back to the drawing board. WebOS itself has a few nice features, but the touchpad was a very very sorry excuse for a usable tablet.

I am waiting for a more stable build of ICS from cyanogenmod, and then maybe I will see about running android on at least one of the touchpads. If for no other reason than to just be able to browse the web properly.


RE: sigh...
By kmmatney on 1/28/2012 5:06:56 PM , Rating: 2
I really don't see why HP paid so much for Palm. BIG mistake. They would have been better off making their own tablet and just licensing Android. Maybe they can be a player again when Windows 8 comes out, but it doesn't sound like it.


RE: sigh...
By n00bxqb on 1/31/2012 3:45:29 AM , Rating: 2
"Honestly I'm not sure what the fuss is about."

Potential that was, unfortunately, never realized due to Palm struggling financially and then HP being incompetent.


"So if you want to save the planet, feel free to drive your Hummer. Just avoid the drive thru line at McDonalds." -- Michael Asher














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