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2013 Mazda CX-5
Skyactiv-D will be in the CX-5 crossover and perhaps the Mazda6

In Europe, cars and other vehicles with diesel engines are very common. They tend to get better fuel economy and diesel is at times cheaper than gasoline. With more and more drivers in the U.S. focused on green cars and fuel economy, America may finally be ready to embrace the diesel engine.
 
There are several car companies now looking to place diesel engines into cars and SUVs that traditionally used gasoline only. BMW is a good example; the company is readying a version of its M5 that uses a diesel engine. GM is also onboard with a diesel version of its popular Chevrolet Cruze compact sedan.
 
Now Mazda has announced plans to bring its Skyactiv-D diesel engine to the U.S. car market by 2014. Mazda thinks that the engine will help it stand out among the hybrids. The Skyactiv-D engine is a 2.2L four cylinder with 173hp and 310lb/ft of torque.
 
"We think it's a good differentiator," said Jim O'Sullivan, CEO of Mazda North American Operations, to Automotive News during the Detroit auto show. It will give Mazda a reputation that "Those guys are always doing something a little different."
 
The diesel engine is expected to find its way into the CX-5 crossover SUV and the Mazda6 sedan. The Mazda6 sedan is only expected to get diesel power in some markets and it's not clear if the U.S. is one of those markets. Mazda is eyeing VW in the States since VW is the only carmaker at the price point with a diesel option courtesy of the Passat TDI.
 
"Volkswagen, I honestly believe, gets incremental business above and beyond other brands because they do have a diesel, and they buy Volkswagens only because they do have it," said O'Sullivan.

Source: Trucktrend



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RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By Reclaimer77 on 1/18/2012 1:03:46 PM , Rating: -1
Not really. It's not just the fuel. Diesel cars are more expensive upfront to buy/lease, cost WAY more to get serviced and repaired (pretty much all of them have turbos), and frankly drive like wheezing school buses. They also weigh a LOT more than the petrol model.

It's not nearly the ideal trade-off you're making it out to be. Diesel belongs on trucks and boats, not passenger vehicles.


RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By AEvangel on 1/18/2012 1:46:24 PM , Rating: 4
LoL...where are you getting your statistic or figures from??

Upfront they are slightly more expensive mainly due to the fact that they last 3 times longer, there is less cost in maintaining them not more and they get better gas mileage.

Also they don't weigh any noticeable amount more then a regular gas vehicle.

Your knowledge on diesel is like 30 years old...and even then is strictly in dealing with American manufacturers version not European.


RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By Reclaimer77 on 1/18/12, Rating: -1
By AEvangel on 1/18/2012 3:31:29 PM , Rating: 4
Like I said you have no knowledge of current diesels...

2010 Volkswagen Golf Base PZEV MSRP: $17,620 Fuel Type: Gas Drivetrain: FWD Engine: 2.5L I5 Transmission: Manual, Automatic Curb Weight: 2,771lbs .

2010 Volkswagen Golf TDI MSRP: $22,155 Fuel Type: Diesel Drivetrain: FWD Engine: 2L I4 Transmission: Manual, Automatic Curb Weight: 2,771lbs .

My Wive's Car

2002 Volkswagen New Beetle GLS TDI MSRP: $18,450 Fuel Type: Diesel Drivetrain: FWD Engine: 1.9L I4 Transmission: Automatic Curb Weight: 2,899lbs.

2002 Volkswagen New Beetle GLS MSRP: $17,400 Fuel Type: Gas Drivetrain: FWD Engine: 2L I4 Transmission: Automatic Curb Weight: 2,855 lbs.

Current Suggested Retail
2002 GAS New Beetle GLS $6,507
2002 TDI New Beetle GLS $8,275

So much for that extra cost??

I own a one of both and I can attest to the cost of maintenance the diesel is the same if not cheaper.

As far as American offering 1978 Cadillac Seville, the Cadillac diesel V-8 was basically a "dieselized" version of Oldsmobile's familiar 350-cubic-inch gasoline V-8.

You really should know what you're talking about before you start spouting on the internet.


RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By FredEx on 1/18/2012 4:58:09 PM , Rating: 2
How old are you? In the late 70's GM had a diesel option for the full size cars in every division. There were diesel Caddy's, Old's, Buick's, Chevy's and Pontiac's on the road. It was a corporate small block V8 converted to diesel.

I was working in the service department of very large Pontiac/Honda/International Harvester/Bricklin dealer in the second half of the 70's while I also attend school for electronics. I'd worked on a few.


By YashBudini on 1/19/2012 12:43:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It was a corporate small block V8 converted to diesel.

Yeah, they ranked up there with the sleeveless aluminum Vega block with the steel (not stainless steel) quick rust out head gasket. Note - Mercedes also used the silicon lap process without problems, so chalk up more notches for GM's cost cutting department.

quote:
I'd worked on a few.

That would be all of them.


By FITCamaro on 1/18/2012 2:05:48 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry Reclaimer. Gonna have to disagree with you here.


RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By mellomonk on 1/18/2012 2:10:45 PM , Rating: 2
Wow. You have obviously not been keeping up with current automotive tech/trends. Modern small displacement common-rail diesel engines have answered nearly all your points.

Yes. Diesel engines are moderately more expensive. But when you when you factor in the increased mileage, the reduced service cost per mile , and relative longer life of the engine, diesel makes a strong case for those who desire a long life from the vehicles or put lots of miles on them.

Weight of the engine is not the issue it once was. Plus the drivetrain is a lower overall percentage of the weight of modern cars as the weight of electronics, safety structures, and the like has increased dramatically. In short all modern cars are heavy.

Service again is moderately more expensive. Here in the states that is partially a factor of it being more specialized work until numbers rise. But service intervals are usually longer and the cost per mile driven can be lower overall. As for the turbos, again this isn't the 70s. Much easier service and longer life. Plus most modern direct injection petrol engines are going with turbos as well.

Performance is dramatically better with the modern CR designs. Much quieter, smoother, and responsive. Many folks cannot tell what kind of engine is on board once past idle. The low rpm, high mileage highway cruise of the diesel is wonderful.

My experience with modern diesel has come at the hands of trips in both modern Mercedes and VW vehicles, including a 2000+ mile trip in a Jetta TDI. Several legs of that trip found us getting nearly 50 miles per gallon on highway stretches. Impressive for nearly any car, wonderful for such a modern comfortable design.


RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By Reclaimer77 on 1/18/12, Rating: -1
RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By mellomonk on 1/18/2012 3:15:53 PM , Rating: 2
The current TDI Golf is about the worst example you could bring up. It is an EU made model and carries a huge increase in features of the base petrol model. Do your math on TDI Jetta or Passat and the equivalent SEL trimmed petrol version and get back to me. Or rather don't. You will find that the diesel is about $2000 more expensive at the start, but will save you far more then that in fuel over the average life span which by the way is about 10 years now. Most folks will save overall within the normal 5 year loan timeframe actually. Many diesel fans look beyond mpg in their decision making. There is the issue of the amount of CO2 produced per mile and the availablilty of Bio fuels as well.

You bury me in links all you want. I will bury you right back. You are correct in most of your points, except you are missing the HUGE one. None of these are deal killers. The modern diesel is coming to the US. It already is a huge percentage of sales in the EU and other regions where fuel prices are relatively high and with 5$ a gallon fuel on the horizon and the average US car now being 10 years + in service the US is primed for clean diesel. EVs and hybrids still have a good deal of development to go through and make far less economic sense. There future is bright, but a way off. Diesel tech is here now and antiquated perceptions such as yours are becoming the minority. Every significant auto maker already makes diesels and has been weighing and balancing US federalization for nearly a decade. Now they are ready and there will be several now diesel models in the coming two years and a flood in the next model cycle. Looking at VWs TDI sales it appears many in the US are as well. Or I guess you are out to prove that every major auto maker and huge number of auto enthusiasts are naive and/or stupid? Do you have a link for that?


RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By Reclaimer77 on 1/18/12, Rating: -1
By BZDTemp on 1/19/2012 6:22:03 AM , Rating: 2
It seems to me you have a lot of opinions about what goes on in Europe but most seem based upon few facts.

Back in the day going with a Diesel was a choice made based on economy for those going lots of miles and/or a choice made driven by the need for low end torque by those hauling boats/horses/whatever. However for, at least the last decade, the modern diesel cars have been just as much a question about taste as it is economy. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Peugeot... they all offer diesel engines in both their small cars and in their big luxury models. Surely you're not claiming that someone buying an 7-series BMW, an S-class Merc or a Audi A8 is looking at fuel costs? Or at car taxes for that matter?

And as for Diesel being cheaper than gasoline then yes that is true but it's within a few percentage points so it's not a big factor.

If you think that capitalism and consumer desires is not what drives the market here in Europe then you're very mistaken.

The reason there are few Diesel cars in the US is because of the misconceptions like the ones you bring forward. Basically those bad cars in the 70s gave Diesel a bad rep plus it have given Diesel an image of being dirty and only for manual labor sort of work (and yes it smells if you get it on you). However it's a shame those misconceptions are still around because a modern Diesel brings much of the same relaxed driving that one gets from cruising with a big V8 and those modern Diesel can also be sporty if you want. In fact Diesel cars are pretty successful in racing - just look at endurance racing.


RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By Keeir on 1/18/2012 2:17:48 PM , Rating: 2
#1. "Diesel's weight a LOT more than a petrol model"

Looking at the VW Jetta Sportwagen
2.5L model = 3257
2.0TDI model = 3283

VW Passat
2.5L model = 3220
TDI Model = 3280

VW Toureq
V6 model=4711
TDI Model=4974
Hybrid=5135

At worst, the TDI is still less than 6% increase in mass. At best its less than 1%. And in each above case the TDI is the -better- engine.

#2. "Diesel cars are more expensive upfront to buy/lease"

This is true to a certain extend. Diesel cars are between 0% to 10% more expensive than comparable petrol cars. Hybrids are typically 10% to 25% more expensive. TCO though is pretty important. The AVERAGE age of a car in the US is more than 10! years. That means most cars are lasting 200,000 or so miles on average. Which means that over a lifetime at ~3.54 dollars a gallon that a new "standard" 25,000 USD 25 MPG car will cost more than 28,000 in fuel.

In the US market right now, the best comparison that can be made is the A3 2.0 Turbo to the A3 2.0 TDI

Curb Weight: 3296/3318 (0.7%)
Base MSRP: 28,750/30,250 (0.5%)
0-60: 6.9/8.9
MPG: 24/34 (41.6%)

The 2.0 TDI trades top end performance for significantly better fuel economy. Having actually driven both cars, the Diesel is nearly identical in feel to the Petrol car in the majority of daily driving.

The Diesel A3 has significantly lower TCO. End of Story.

Diesel is not the appropriate solution for everyone. If you happen to drive heavier cars (feature packed) for long distances at a steady speed, the Diesel IS a very good option however. If you want to drive an eco-box in a city, then a normal petrol car or a mild hybrid are much better options.

In 2010, the US -EXPORTED- 656,000 barrels of diesel per day. Much of this headed to Europe or other areas where diesel is less highly taxed than gasoline.

What both the US AND Europe need to do is find a way to let gasoline and diesel consumption in the countries balance. Since oil breaks down into a certain percentage of Diesel and Gasoline, the most efficient use of the oil reserves and refining capability of a country will be a certain percentage of miles driven on Diesel/Gasoline. Clearly the US is shifted towards gasoline and many other countries are shifted to diesel. This creates waste is shipping oil and fuel around... sometimes nearly in a circle. The end result of this would be a certain percentage of diesel passenger cars on US roads... mainly for the consumer that drives long distances at a steady speed.


RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By Mint on 1/18/2012 5:08:14 PM , Rating: 2
The diesel/gasoline consumption is already balanced. That's what markets do. There is very little capability left in global oil refining to create more diesel, and if the US became like Europe in diesel popularity, diesel price would skyrocket until someone started using less.

Pursuing wider usage diesel is a long term dead end for energy efficiency and cost reasons unless biodiesel wins out as the best alternative fuel in the future, which seems unlikely.


RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By Keeir on 1/19/2012 6:51:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The diesel/gasoline consumption is already balanced. That's what markets do.


No... Diesel/Gasoline consumption is -not- balanced on efficiency.

It's balanced based -taxes- and other government imposed factors. Markets balance based on consumer demand and supplier cost... not what's the most efficient use of fuel.

For example, in Germany, Diesel is taxed ~0.20 Euros less per liter than gasoline. That's nearly 1 dollar a gallon!

In most US states, Diesel only gets an additional 5 cents per gallon extra tax.

But if you compare Germany and the US, there is more than a 1 dollar per gallon difference in government imposed cost... which creates an artificially increased demand for Diesel in Germany... provided the transportation cost for a gallon a Diesel Fuel is less than 50 cents per gallon, then its better to ship the Diesel Fuel to Europe than consume it here in the US! (While Diesel Engine makes better use of fuel on a per kWh basis than gasoline, its probably better to use local gasoline than foreign diesel.)

I think the whole world needs to review their taxing of energy. A worldwide policy of taxing energy sources in a consistent way would help ensure that the market picks more -efficient- energy rather having the government pick winners. I would suggest formula based in part on kWh, NOx, Particular matter etc.

(I like Diesel, but I am not so naive to think that the huge numbers of Diesel passenger cars in Europe is not due to the massive tax advantage given to them by the European governments.


RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By Spuke on 1/18/2012 7:02:07 PM , Rating: 2
Where are you getting $28,000 in fuel costs from? I'm coming up with ~$19,000 in gasoline versus ~$15,000 for diesel. Still a $4000 difference but not sure on your numbers.


RE: Diesel fuel seems more expensive
By fic2 on 1/19/2012 12:44:08 PM , Rating: 2
Pretty sure he took it from:
quote:
That means most cars are lasting 200,000 or so miles on average. Which means that over a lifetime at ~3.54 dollars a gallon that a new "standard" 25,000 USD 25 MPG car will cost more than 28,000 in fuel.

200,000 miles total lifetime / 25 MPG * $3.54/gal = $28,320.


By amagriva on 1/19/2012 2:37:14 PM , Rating: 2
Jeez you're such a caveman...
quote: Diesel belongs on trucks and boats, not passenger vehicles.
This statement will remain, if we need another example, to demonstrate you're a moron...


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