Print 65 comment(s) - last by Mint.. on Dec 17 at 2:29 PM

CARB is taking public comment on proposed standards now

California has been working with the federal government on the CAFE fuel economy standards while at the same time working inside the state government to improve the air quality. The California Air Resources Board (CARB) has now confirmed more plans to help improve the air quality in the state and that plan involves mandates to get more electric vehicles onto the market. The plan calls for 1.4 million more electric and plug-in vehicles as well as hydrogen powered cars to hit the roads. 
The new standards are expected to cover 2017 to 2025 model year vehicles. The plan wants to reduce greenhouse gas emission from vehicles by 34% compared with the levels set for 2016 and to drive more purchases of EVs. CARB says that the new rules will add $1,900 to the price of a new vehicle by 2025, but the efficiency will save $6,000 in fuel costs over the vehicles life.

Tesla Model S [Source: Tesla Motors]
If the 1.4 million zero emission or plug-in hybrid vehicle number is reached that would mean one in seven or 15% of all new vehicles sold would be that type of vehicle. Automakers selling cars in California would need to make 15.4% of their entire fleets ZEVs to meet the proposed standards. The rules would also force all passenger cars and light trucks sold in California to reach the state super-ultra-low emission vehicle standards by 2025. If approved by the California Office of Administrative Law, the regulations would become law in 2012.
The proposed rules by the State of California aren't good enough for the Union of Concerned Scientists reports the NYT. This union wants to increase the proposed standard by 30% and put 1.8 million zero emission vehicles on the roads by 2025. A public comment period on CARBs proposal is going until December 12.
The full CARB proposal is here in PDF form.

Sources: NYT, Energy Efficiency News

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By FITCamaro on 12/15/2011 1:55:52 PM , Rating: 5
I can't wait to pay for it.

RE: Awesome
By abzillah on 12/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: Awesome
By Spuke on 12/15/2011 2:11:25 PM , Rating: 2
Air quality is an order of magnitude better than it ever was. If you don't remember the air quality alerts we used to have then you have no idea how bad it was. At least now you can go outside everyday of the year. Improvements are always desired but it's not life threatening anymore.

RE: Awesome
By sigmatau on 12/15/11, Rating: 0
RE: Awesome
By tastyratz on 12/16/2011 9:12:44 AM , Rating: 4
It doesn't matter, they are barking up the wrong tailpipe.
Modern vehicles put out such minimal emissions now compared to their predecessors that it almost doesn't matter. Old cars put out SIGNIFICANTLY more, hell 2012 civic vs 1991 pits out 36% less ghg. But even more so commercial vehicles like tractor trailers are the worst offenders with the least regulation. Cars have become blood from a stone.

Let's step out of that realm again because it is STILL minute in comparison to other sources like with industry and power generation. California still has 10 operational coal power plants (2005 source, might not be up to date). Why not work to shutting them down and becoming a coal free state?

According to the epa statistics (src ) , vehicles are still only 1/3 of emission totals. Where is your crackdown california on the other 2/3rds if you are so concerned?

RE: Awesome
By Mint on 12/17/11, Rating: 0
RE: Awesome
By FITCamaro on 12/15/2011 2:21:43 PM , Rating: 1
Fine then you pay for it. If the people of Commifornia want it, they can pay for it. I shouldn't have to.

RE: Awesome
By retrospooty on 12/15/2011 4:32:58 PM , Rating: 2
Pretty sure you dont have to. CA puts more money into the US economy than any other state and more money into the Fed than any other state, both by a large margin.

Granted they mismanage the hell out of what they have, but they arent a burden on the other states.

RE: Awesome
By Paj on 12/16/2011 7:42:17 AM , Rating: 1
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on DOT roads, to my house which has not bumed down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on and Fox News forums about how SOCIALlSMin medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

RE: Awesome
By Dr of crap on 12/16/2011 8:39:19 AM , Rating: 3
Priceless !

RE: Awesome
By KoS on 12/16/2011 10:39:37 AM , Rating: 3
And you just proved how much "control" a govt has or rather can have over the people. Just put in the "right" people.

I just can't wait for a "government agency" to help me chose my clothes to wear, what car I can drive, what food I can or can't eat, what time I can go to bed and get up, what type of employment I'm able to do....

All the good government does now, more would be even better!

RE: Awesome
By tng on 12/16/2011 12:57:27 PM , Rating: 3

The really funny thing about his post is that he thinks that his food and medicines are safe because of the FDA. Also I guess he doesn't know that the Federal Reserve Bank is not a government agency, and the EPA approved fuel he puts in his tank is less efficient due to EPA meddling.

RE: Awesome
By Ringold on 12/16/2011 1:32:01 PM , Rating: 3
He probably thinks it was logical and, overall, absolute gold. He lists a bunch of smaller government operations, like NOAA (compared to the size of budgetary monsters like Social Security) and the safety-mandating FDA, which basically sets minimum standards and once in a blue moon performs an inspection but otherwise leaves the free market totally alone, and then closes it out trying to connect those things to total government control of a vast portion of the economy - medicine. Control complete with price controls, etc.

And no mention of colossal government failures when price controls and market domination has been attempted before, both by the US and other nations throughout history. That'd require education and critical analysis, though.

Not even a mention of how the FDA is downright lethargic and still occasionally screws up compared to other regulators in the rich world! Government can do no wrong.

RE: Awesome
By tng on 12/16/2011 3:44:50 PM , Rating: 2
He probably thinks it was logical and, overall, absolute gold.
He also mentions the USPO that is also loosing money, and public schools who never seem to have enough money either, although here in CA it is the largest single budget item for the state. Not to mention that for the most part private schools beat out public in testing.

RE: Awesome
By tanjali on 12/15/2011 2:23:43 PM , Rating: 2
I am confident price of batteries are high politically the same like quality of them, can’t understand paying so much for quality EV, just because you have to pay half of it for a battery. I won’t even go about charging time, miles per charge and durability of cells.

RE: Awesome
By MeesterNid on 12/15/2011 2:25:12 PM , Rating: 3
How are they going to be 0 emissions? Are they generating electricity exclusively from solar power to power these cars? Because just because the vehicle itself doesn't emit any harmful bi-products doesn't mean the process to generate electricity to fuel it didn't.

So if you're okay with the man behind the curtain telling you it's 0 emissions you're set to go on living in your emerald city.

RE: Awesome
By Shig on 12/15/2011 3:10:31 PM , Rating: 3

47% - Gas

20% - Hydro

18% - Nuclear

7% - Geothermal

3% - Biomass

2% - Wind

1% - Oil

<1% - Coal

<1% - Solar

<1% - Other

RE: Awesome
By autoboy on 12/15/2011 3:26:38 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, California has pretty clean energy compared to the rest of the country. In some states new clean gas cars are better for the environment than electric. But, the fact that California is mostly gas is also why the energy prices are high.

Thanks for that list.

RE: Awesome
By TSS on 12/15/2011 4:15:11 PM , Rating: 2
Great, clear the air but Frack up the ground.

Clean energy my foot.

RE: Awesome
By Ringold on 12/16/2011 1:35:19 PM , Rating: 1
Feel free to suggest another way to get that 47% reliably, relatively cheaply, around the clock, and for an installation price that doesn't destroy an already weak state economy.

RE: Awesome
By JediJeb on 12/15/2011 6:10:03 PM , Rating: 2
Yes but they are wanting to eliminate Green House Gasses and those natural gas power plants still emit CO2, just no way around that. If CO2 is considered a pollutant then the natural gas plants are not as clean as the make them out to be. Also the Hydrogen cars should not be considered in this program since it is proven that Water vapor is a green house gas, so those cars would be polluting also. Then of course there is the proposal to outlaw all nuclear plants in California that they are trying to put on the ballot which would knock out a good percentage of their power production, I wonder what will take it's place to help charge all these new EVs?

Of course I am being cynical but it just goes to show that someone can find something bad in just about anything. Is switching to more efficient power and products a good thing, sure, but is it always worth the cost associated with the switch, not always.

RE: Awesome
By tng on 12/16/2011 3:40:58 PM , Rating: 2
Of course I am being cynical but it just goes to show that someone can find something bad in just about anything.
Since I exhale CO2 can I be fined by the EPA? I must be the cause of global warming...

RE: Awesome
By amanojaku on 12/15/2011 3:20:57 PM , Rating: 1
Both of you should read the proposal. Nowhere did I see a mention of taxes. Instead, this program will raise the purchase prices of cars, as manufacturers will be forced to increase the number of non-ICE cars in their fleets. The expectation is that the non-ICE cars will be cheaper to own over time because of lower operating costs. Note that the document occasionally uses words like "can" and "could"...

I really wanted to address the issue of the environment. You need to rid yourself of the fallacy that non-ICE cars are "better" for the environment. All cars need a power source, and most, if not all, of the cars will be powered by electricity. Since we don't have a significant nuclear power infrastructure, that means coal and gas. After all, solar, tidal, and wind farms are rare, too. It's been proven that coal and gas plants are worse than tail pipe emissions: those plants produce radioactive ash, among other things.

RE: Awesome
By Shig on 12/15/2011 3:35:31 PM , Rating: 1
@amanojaku -

That is a paper written to refute most of your claims.

You also left out of the most important points, foreign oil addiction. The vast majority of Americans believe reducing our dependance on foreign oil is a top priority, which this program will do.

RE: Awesome
By kattanna on 12/15/2011 3:19:21 PM , Rating: 3
I can't wait to pay for it.

LOL when i was out visiting the parents over thanksgiving they showed me the new solar install on the roof, and i turned to my dad and said "glad i could help you buy it"

RE: Awesome
By idiot77 on 12/15/11, Rating: 0
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance." -- Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer
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