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Print 54 comment(s) - last by Mint.. on Dec 9 at 1:43 PM

It's too early in the investigation to know if changes are needed

The Chevrolet Volt is the first and only extended range EV on the U.S. market today. The Volt has been in the spotlight recently after the NHTSA found that two of three vehicles caught fire after side impact testing. One of the vehicles that caught fire didn’t burst into flames until three weeks after the crash test. The other started sparking and smoking immediately after the test.

 
Understandably, GM is eager to get to the root of the problem with the Volt fires. GM's Mary Barra, VP of global product development for GM said, "I have engineers working shoulder-to-shoulder with the NHTSA engineers right now," said Mary Barra, vice president of global product development for GM. "We are looking to say, 'Are there some design changes that we can make — something more robust in this location or that location or this component?'"
 
However, the automaker does note that any changes would need to be rigorously tested both at GM and with outside sources.
 
GM also says that if the investigation determines that changes need to be made to the design of the battery packs, it will make those changes as quickly as possible. She also points out that there still isn't any indication of just how long the investigation into the fires will last.
 
GM's Mary Barra with a Chevrolet Cruze [Source: GM] 

GM is taking the concerns of the roughly 6,000 Volt owners in the U.S. seriously and has offered to loan Volt owners a different vehicle until the investigating is completed. GM has also noted that if a Volt owner wanted to sell their Volt back to GM, it would buy the car back. Originally, it sounded like all the Volt owner had to do was ask and GM would buy their car back. Some statements that Barra made make it sound as though a buyback isn't a given in each case. Barra said, "First, we're going to have a conversation and understand their specific concern."
 
She added, "But if, as we go through that process, we get to a point where we think it's the right thing to do for that customer to protect the customer's satisfaction and show that General Motors puts the customers first, then that's what we'll do."

Source: Detroit News



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This car was complete fail...
By quiksilvr on 12/5/2011 12:48:53 PM , Rating: 2
Not only was the marketing sloppily done, but this car was obvious competition against the Prius and failed in three major categories:
1) Price
2) Fuel efficiency/range
3) Ease of use

1) $40,000 ($32,500 after Tax break) is too expensive for what it offers. A significant $10,000 has be shaven off of this in order to make it financially viable.
2) It has a combined fuel efficiency of about 60 mpg, which is great. However, its tank can only hold 9 gallons of fuel. Since it gets only 37 mpg on gas and roughly 25-50 miles on electric, it only has a range of about 380 miles.

Flip it over to the Prius, it has 50 mpg and a 12 gallon tank, giving it a near 600 mile range. Even more embarrassing, Toyota will be launching an even smaller Prius that still has 4 doors but 60 miles per gallon for roughly $2000-$3000 less than the standard Prius.

3) You don't even get 400 mile range, your tank doesn't even hit 40 mpg, your tank is smaller than a Yaris's and you have to plug it in...

At least with the Leaf, it was clear. Its strictly sub 100 mile range pure electric and much more affordable. The Volt is confusing in a consumer standpoint and doesn't offer any benefit over today's cheaper offerings.




RE: This car was complete fail...
By Dr of crap on 12/5/2011 12:54:19 PM , Rating: 2
Hey whoa, whoa there.
People will get on you for having no GOOD reasons for HATING the Volt.
Just like they did to me on another post.

Thanks for hating and going the EXTRA mile with GOOD reasons!

And might I add the OVER use of keeping the Volt front and center on the media daily.
That is marketing I hate from EVERY product!


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Amedean on 12/5/11, Rating: 0
RE: This car was complete fail...
By GuinnessKMF on 12/5/2011 1:49:07 PM , Rating: 2
You don't need to drive a car to critique it, there are simple observable facts. This isn't a "drivers" car, so it's not like you're talking about handling or responsiveness.

As a taxpayer I can be mad about the tax credit (Politics of if it should exist in the first place, it's absolutely too much of a credit for too little environmental benefit, the money would be better spent on incentives on recycling trade ins of old cars for cheaper efficient commuter cars).

I will agree that some of his points are rather silly to call out, 380 mile range is fine, it's not restrictive to the point where you physically won't be able to make it to a destination in the lower 48.

The price tag is a problem, with or without the incentive, and I don't even know what total cost of ownership or expected lifecycle will be.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Amedean on 12/5/11, Rating: 0
RE: This car was complete fail...
By tng on 12/5/2011 5:17:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
"You don't need to drive a car to critique it"
The first is a pretty ignorant statement...

Nonsense, he is entirely correct. It is not a performance car, the stats that makes it unique are all very easy to look at and analyze without ever seeing the car. Your statement that he is ignorant means that you missed his point.

As for that, politics aside, after having driven literally hundreds of GM cars as rentals over the past 15 years, sometimes for a couple of hours and some for a month or more, I am not surprised GM is having these issues. Quality has never been a strong point with them and this is no different.

I would bring up the tank size as well. A car of that class should have a larger tank in it, period. The ability to drive 500+ miles on one fillup is a selling point. So you live in a large metro area and never drive that far, many people do and this plays into buying decisions.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Amedean on 12/5/2011 6:51:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nonsense, he is entirely correct.


Well then, I should be able to critique you without even knowing you with this wisdom! Are there not just too many know-it-all people without any experience on the subjects they discuss.

Ride a Volt before you critique it, just like you would read a book before you rate it - silly people nowadays!


By GuinnessKMF on 12/6/2011 7:58:53 AM , Rating: 2
People critique people without knowing each other all the time. You can get a pretty good idea if a person is potentially viable from their resume, you can see the "cold hard facts" about the person and save yourself some time, then if they fit the bill you can interview them and determine if there are any nuances that a personal meeting would require. Sure you may miss some gems that didn't shine on paper, but it lets you see a lot more of the cream with the time you have.

Cars are no different, the stats on the car speak for themselves, it's an expensive car that bills itself as an environmentally friendly car. It could be the smoothest driving car in the world, but it wouldn't matter if it didn't meet my requirements for cost and efficiency.

You absolutely DO NOT need to ride or drive one to make a judgement that it won't work for you. I would highly suggest someone drive it before they decide it's absolutely for them.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By tng on 12/6/2011 8:24:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well then, I should be able to critique you without even knowing you...
Again, nonsense.

All you need to do is read the specs on the vehicle. How much more do you need to know?

Don't know why you seem to think that you need to "experience" the ride before you make basic decisions about the things that are in black and white in the GM published specs.

On the other hand, if I was going to actually buy one, yes I would drive one first. That being said, a ten minute test drive is not a good way to make a decision, to make a decision you need at least a week of everyday driving to see if it works with the way you need to use it.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Masospaghetti on 12/6/2011 9:28:26 AM , Rating: 2
Because people compare this car to the Prius and other "economy" cars all the time, when the driving refinement of the Volt is far better than either. If you've driven one, you'd realize this.

It's like comparing a Mercedes S-Class to a Camaro SS and saying the Camaro is "better" because it has better acceleration, fuel economy, and is cheaper.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By tng on 12/6/2011 9:47:54 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because people compare this car to the Prius and other "economy" cars all the time, when the driving refinement of the Volt is far better than either. If you've driven one, you'd realize this.
Good point, but it depends on what you are buying the car for.

Comparing a Mercedes S to a Camaro SS is comparing apples to oranges. You buy these cars for totally different reasons.

Comparing a Prius to a Volt is valid, both are hybrid and both are billed as "green" and fuel efficient.

While the Volt may be a great ride, the whole point that people who are pro Volt here do not seem to understand is that, you buy a fuel efficient car for the daily commute, not as a luxury car with a comfortable ride for long trips. Daily commute cars shouldn't cost $40K or even ~$30K like a Prius.

I don't expect my daily commute car to ride like a Mercedes. I do expect my daily commute car to get good mileage since it is 100+ miles per day, which negates any advantage the Volt and it's 40 mile EV range has.

I have a 2004 Honda Accord 2 door with a V6 that I take on long trips. I have driven some long stretches of highway at 100+mph speeds for several hours and still gotten 30mpg from the thing, so I doubt the Volt has a future for me as a second car either.

However there are probably people out there that have the money and the Volt makes sense for them... Just not me.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Mint on 12/9/2011 1:12:06 PM , Rating: 2
What if you want a car for a daily commute with a better ride than the Prius? You do realize that millions of cars each year are sold for that purpose, right?

I am a bit dismayed in the Volt's price, though. Hybrids sell for maybe $5000 more than their non-hybrid equivalent, and PHEV really only needs a bigger battery and charger on top of that. That shouldn't cost $40k.

Still, even with this price GM should be doing better numbers in Europe where the cost of fuel is high. If I'm a company, PHEV is a godsend for my corporate fleet, and as long as a battery has a long life it won't depreciate, so GM could keep lease rates low enough to make them economical.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Reclaimer77 on 12/6/2011 1:30:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because people compare this car to the Prius and other "economy" cars all the time, when the driving refinement of the Volt is far better than either. If you've driven one, you'd realize this.


Sorry but I have a conscious. I cannot ask my fellow American's to chip in $7,000 so I can buy a car in these economic times and our looming debt crisis. Plus that would be pretty damn hypocritical. So I see no reason to test drive a Volt.

Maybe they should have toned down the "refinement" and focused on range and engine efficiency while also lowering the price so as to chip away at that huge tax rebate? Maybe?

But yeah clearly the Prius got it all wrong. They only sold about 400k units this year. How many people bought the Volt again?

quote:
It's like comparing a Mercedes S-Class to a Camaro SS and saying the Camaro is "better" because it has better acceleration, fuel economy, and is cheaper.


If those are the metrics the Camaro buyer is using, than yes, the Camaro IS "better". Similarly, the Prius is better than the Volt if you're looking for an economy car. It's far cheaper, far more practical, no range anxiety etc etc.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Mint on 12/9/2011 1:43:38 PM , Rating: 2
Some people have other priorities with their conscience. Some people want America to have a fighting chance in manufacturing the PHEVs that are bound to become a big market (some simple math tells you that in Europe there's massive potential for cost savings over ICE).

Some people want to do something about urban air pollution by swapping local combustion with remote power generation. Studies estimates air pollution deaths at 70k/yr in the US. In Ontario (pop 13M), the Ontario Medical Association pegs the number at 9500/yr. I don't care much about global warming, but this is a real problem.

Some people don't want America sending out $300B+/yr to other countries for oil. If the economy recovers, that number will disproportionately go up.

And how does the Volt have range anxiety? 380 miles range doesn't stop half the automobiles on the road today from being useful. You just go to a gas station and refuel. Pure EVs have range anxiety (which is why I see them as a niche market long term). PHEVs don't.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By BSMonitor on 12/6/2011 12:57:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
All you need to do is read the specs on the vehicle. How much more do you need to know?


If a vehicle uses a combination of cheap parts in the steering column, brakes, wheel base, struts, etc.. If the weight distribution sucks.. If it doesn't handle well under wet or snow driving conditions.. The specs are not going to be able to tell how a car "drives". The Prius may get more mpg, but how is the ride??


RE: This car was complete fail...
By GuinnessKMF on 12/6/2011 1:14:40 PM , Rating: 2
You guys all seem to be missing the point, the specs are good enough for most people to tell if the car WON'T be good for them.

*IF* I looked at the specs and said that the car would be good for me, then I would want to drive it to see if the quality was what I expected.

I bet most people can tell you right now that they're next car they buy is NOT going to be an Aston Martin, and you're not going to respond to them with "but the quality is top notch, you need to drive one first".


RE: This car was complete fail...
By tng on 12/6/2011 1:22:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You guys all seem to be missing the point, the specs are good enough for most people to tell if the car WON'T be good for them. *IF* I looked at the specs and said that the car would be good for me, then I would want to drive it to see if the quality was what I expected.
Thank You!

I think that they still will not understand though.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Masospaghetti on 12/5/2011 2:32:38 PM , Rating: 2
I can understand the point about the price - but who cares if its range is 380 miles? You go to a gas station and fill up, and you're good to go, just like any other car.

Ease of use: Plugging in your vehicle at night takes 15 seconds. How horrible is that, really?


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Amedean on 12/5/2011 4:15:24 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you!


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Reclaimer77 on 12/5/11, Rating: -1
RE: This car was complete fail...
By Masospaghetti on 12/5/2011 9:42:16 PM , Rating: 1
Nobody was even debating the merits of the Volt. The OP complained that the range was a big drawback of the car - and I argued it was a non-issue. But since you brought it up:
quote:
Once the battery is depleted, that's it, the Volt's magic is gone

Yup, The Volt's ace is it's battery pack and running on electricity. We all agree on this.
quote:
...and it's MPG is pretty shitty compared to ALL "economy" vehicles.

Name one "economy" vehicle that has a combined cycle EPA number higher than the Volt.

Volt: 35/40/37 MPG

I'll wait.
quote:
in a society where people leave their own children in vehicles on 100+ degree days...

If someone is too lazy to take 15 seconds to recharge their car, then the Volt is not for them.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Reclaimer77 on 12/5/11, Rating: 0
RE: This car was complete fail...
By Amedean on 12/6/2011 3:16:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's well known those EPA numbers are not representative of real world mileage!


Your right, it is even better than advertised! Good summary from wired.com - not Fox News so sorry.....

quote:
If you drive 45 miles between charges, meaning you’re doing about 10 miles with the gasoline assist, you’ll get 168 mpg. Drive 60 miles between charges and you’re looking at 89 mpg. Drive 75 miles between charges and you can expect 69 mpg. Of course, the typical driver will go all kinds of distances between charges, and the EPA’s got a number for that, too: 60 mpg equivalent “combined composite.” “Our overall combined average is 60 mpg,” said Doug Parks, Volt global vehicle line executive for the Volt. “That’s best in segment for compact cars.” At the bottom line, there’s something for everyone on this label. Volt fanboys will hail the 93 mpg equivalency under electric power. Critics will seize on the 35 mile range and 37 mpg figures. GM’s PR flacks undoubtedly are scratching their heads trying to figure out how to spin it all.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By tng on 12/6/2011 4:15:35 PM , Rating: 2
OK... Drive 300 miles between charges, what is the mileage then?

Oh and before I forget there are plenty of used 10 year old economy cars out there that get as good or better mileage than the Volt. Honda, Toyota, Ford, take your pick, all at a much better value than the Volt.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Masospaghetti on 12/6/2011 4:53:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
OK... Drive 300 miles between charges, what is the mileage then?


(300-35)/40 = 6.625 gal
300/6.625 = 45.3 MPG.

What "10 year old economy car" gets better than that?* And besides, now you're comparing the value of used cars to a new one?

*Before you give me a story about some guy with a Civic VX that got 63 mpg, just remember, I have a V8 Explorer that gets over 100 mpg


RE: This car was complete fail...
By tng on 12/6/2011 5:56:45 PM , Rating: 2
There is a Civic VX? Where did you get that Explorer again, is that a Ford.

And YES, on the flat and level I can get 45mpg if I want to do 50mph out of my Civic, but most likely on the freeways I drive on I will become a hood ornament for a tractor/trailer rig.

I just love the fact that when the Volt was announced it was going to be the car that would save GM and be the green car of the decade. The people at my office who have literally driven GM cars as rentals for years laughed and so far have not seen a reason to stop laughing.

There have been specific models that GM has come out with in the past several years that are OK, but it has proven with this car that typical GM either engineering, design or assembly is not up to par.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Masospaghetti on 12/6/2011 7:19:25 PM , Rating: 2
Civic VX was a high efficiency model, before the HX.
quote:
I just love the fact that when the Volt was announced it was going to be the car that would save GM and be the green car of the decade

It's ultimate success will be decided in 2012 and 2013. It was never intended as a profit generator or a high volume seller in 2011. I would argue it has been a success so far because sales have been supply constrained but obviously you would disagree.
quote:
but it has proven with this car that typical GM either engineering, design or assembly is not up to par.

Because it doesn't have as much "value" as a 10-year old Honda?


RE: This car was complete fail...
By tng on 12/6/2011 9:12:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because it doesn't have as much "value" as a 10-year old Honda?
That is a 12 year old Honda now and no the Volt doesn't have as much value for me personally. The beauty of buying a used good car is that yes they are cheaper and if you take care of it they will last as long as new. Insurance is cheaper, no car payments, etc... you get it.

I can't say never, but I probably will not buy new again, and yes I have a bias against GM. Long before GM became Government Motors or even had envisioned the Volt, I had driven hundreds of GM cars through Avis.

I would say that yes rentals get abused but it was never the older abused cars that were the worst, it was always the one with less than 100 miles on it. Had them strand me several times, once in a very dangerous situation, had things stop working (AC, lights, radio) and even had a couple that things literally fell off of them when I slammed the door (including the drivers side door due to bad welds it looked like).

So we know that there are people out there like yourself who like the Volt and think that it will sell in great numbers, but it is not for everybody. To much money, not enough car and that is based on the specs, don't need to drive one. Driven all kinds of cars from all over the world and this would be just another ho-hum experience.

I am also not convinced that Volt will sell in great number either for a couple of reasons, first, this is a boutique car, it is priced as such and it's target market is very small. Second it is GM, many people out there besides me have had bad experiences with the many brands and also the Feds bailing them out.

I will also point out that sales numbers do not seem to be increasing, but staying steady and for a premier of a new model that is not really a good thing.

The issue with the fires is singular to the Volt. The Nissan leaf had to go through the same crash tests and also has had several that have been involved in accidents on the road and we have not seen fires in them, as have the Teslas that are out there, so GM is to blame here no doubt. This is just another black eye for a car that was hyped to death.


By Masospaghetti on 12/6/2011 9:25:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
We're talking the MPG of JUST the ICE engine. Which is horrible AND requires expensive premium grade fuel.

quote:
We're not talking about the smoke and mirrors "combined" MPG. It's well known those EPA numbers are not representative of real world mileage!

So say the EPA numbers are false, but offer no alternative, and imply that anecdotal evidence is somehow better than the only controlled standard for fuel economy in existence. You make dramatic claims (such as this one), reject all evidence of the contrary, and offer nothing to prove your point.
quote:
And saying it's a "non-issue" is pure baloney. It's a MAJOR issue. I know in your world nobody ever drives more than 30 miles a day

Yeah, and then you start to use gasoline. When your tank is empty, you fill up, just like any other car.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By darkpuppet on 12/5/2011 2:58:39 PM , Rating: 3
Oh, Pious owners...

You rag on a car because you think yours is first... well, some bad news...

you can get a VW Polo cheaper than a Prius, has NO gimmicky battery and gets 70+ MPG...

The truth of the matter is that if you wanted, you may never have to fill the tank of your Volt in the years that you own it -- that's the main draw... something a Prius can't do out of the box.

Not to mention that the total life cycle of a Prius is likely worse to the environment than your traditional auto (unless you own it for 20+ years and never replace the battery in it)... and at the end of the day all you have to brag about is how Pious thou arte.

We've all heard the hipster arguments in the past "well, Mac had a GUI before Windows", "The Prius had a battery in it long before everyone else", blah blah blah. So what... The prius wasn't a very good car to begin with, it's about time someone else offered something better... Future Historians will tell us if the Volt is that car.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By tng on 12/5/2011 5:23:35 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Not to mention that the total life cycle of a Prius is likely worse to the environment than your traditional auto
I have a 12 year old Honda that gets 39mpg and I plan on keeping it as long as possible. If that is not "greener" by far than a Prius or a Volt than nothing is.

Either the Volt, the Prius, Insight, all ugly cars (Prius is the worst). Life is to short to drive something that ugly.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By nocturne_81 on 12/5/2011 7:24:57 PM , Rating: 2
You are entirely missing the point..

This car is a gimmick, just like the Prius was and remains to be. So, you're a rich yuppy with the typical sense of guilt over your own prosperity, so you think -- let's go green!

So, you buy an overpriced car filled with hundreds of pounds of batteries containing poisonous rare earth metals, not realizing that you will never pay off the price premium with the savings in gas, and will have a much worse effect on the environment in the long run (batteries in landfills, more coal burnt for power). Just goes to show you can sell any product as long as you identify the trends..

Nothing will really change lacking a serious investment in hydrogen powered vehicles (or some incredibly futuristic method of propulsion). Notice I said 'vehicles', not 'technology' -- keep in mind that one of the first internal combustion engines ran on hydrogen from electrolysis in 1807, more than 60 years before gasoline ran it's first engine. We've had the technology for decades -- time to stop making excuses and put it to use.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Amedean on 12/6/2011 3:18:33 AM , Rating: 2
I find that all the people who bash the Volt have never driven one and lean towards conservative issues. For the later, I am still trying to find out how the success of the Volt in any way became representative towards the Obama administration. I just wish people were not so politically charged and accept technology for what it is.

Aside from that, I have never spoken to a person who drove the Volt and did not like it. People complain about the price of a volt more than a Hummer or Tesla. It is not the most expensive vehical around.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Alexvrb on 12/5/2011 7:36:38 PM , Rating: 2
Your third point "ease of use" is idiotic.

When that arcane and bizarre LOW FUEL symbol glows with a sinister amber glow, what does one do? Need we sacrifice a chicken or virgin, or both? NAY! You put gas in it, and drive off. Let me guess, that's too complicated for you. You might want to consider moving to New Jersey or Oregon. I hear they don't allow their citizens to pump their own gas.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Shig on 12/5/2011 8:18:03 PM , Rating: 2
@ quicksilvr - this car cannot be compared to any other car on the marketplace, no other car can do what the Volt does as of right now.

The upcoming plug-in prius, which is a fair comparison, will start at 32,000 and go to 39,525$. It will have less room, it looks worse, and it only gets 10 miles on all electric mode.

The regular prius cannot hit fuel efficiency ratings of 1000+ miles per gallon, like the Volt can. Case and point the people who drive under 40 miles per day (many volt drivers) or have the ability to recharge at their destination.

You also go into talking about the leaf, yet that still gets the same 7,500$ tax credit you've denounced earlier in your posts for being unfair to the tax payer. The leaf starts at 34,000 and goes to 37,000$ for the 2012 model, that is hardly much cheaper. You also get range anxiety and the inability to just gas up whenever.

All your points are comparing apples to oranges. Once again, you cannot compare any current vehicle to the volt, it is unique for the time being. Comparing the Volt to the prius simply shows your lack of knowledge about everything.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Reclaimer77 on 12/5/2011 8:18:48 PM , Rating: 2
You left out that the Volt's MPG on the ICE is pretty bad, but here's the kicker, it requires PREMIUM! I mean what the hell GM?

I agree with everything you said though. Volt supporters seem blind to the fact that at $40k, the Volt just makes no sense. The negatives far outweigh the positives.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Shig on 12/6/2011 12:43:45 AM , Rating: 2
Yet if the Volt retailed at ~30,000$ - 7,500$ tax incentive (plus additional state incentives in certain states) would you even consider an ICE when gas is destined to go to 4.00$ a gallon and stay there in the short/medium term?

The original post states that this car needs to retail for 10k less to be competative, if the Volt was 10k less, no ICE would stand a prayer to compete with it.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Reclaimer77 on 12/6/2011 8:08:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
if the Volt was 10k less, no ICE would stand a prayer to compete with it.


*laughs* That's an absurd statement. Obviously economy is NOT the only factor when people purchase a vehicle. Also for people with longer commutes or frequent travelers, the Volt doesn't hold much appeal because it's ICE mileage is really bad.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Masospaghetti on 12/6/2011 9:30:52 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
the Volt doesn't hold much appeal because it's ICE mileage is really bad

And yet, you can't produce a single non-hybrid vehicle with better combined efficiency. But no worry, just keep repeating yourself and it'll eventually come true.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Reclaimer77 on 12/6/2011 12:53:55 PM , Rating: 2
Combined efficiency is a crock because it swings wildly based on trip distance. For example when GM arrived at their 200+ MPG test numbers, they drove the Volt 50 miles so that it barely burned any fuel, then proclaimed a "combined" MPG of 230! Do you really think that's a fair and honest way to relate efficiency to the consumer?

The REAL combined MPG of the Volt in "charge sustaining mode" is 36MPG. Sorry but that's it. I guess you're going to argue with popular mechanics. So where's the better combined efficiency over hybrid technology?

http://gm-volt.com/2010/10/10/popular-mechanics-fi...

Maybe you need to hear this from someone else. I'm tired of pointing out to you the fallacy and dishonest premise you insist and debating from.

http://gas2.org/2010/10/14/motor-trend-claims-volt...


By Reclaimer77 on 12/6/2011 12:56:29 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
And yet, you can't produce a single non-hybrid vehicle


The Volt is obviously competing with hybrids though. Why do I have to provide a NON-hybrid example again? Just trying to understand your reasoning here, besides moving the goalposts.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Masospaghetti on 12/6/2011 2:35:42 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
...and it's MPG is pretty shitty compared to ALL "economy" vehicles.

quote:
The Volt is obviously competing with hybrids though. Why do I have to provide a NON-hybrid example again?

You compared the Volt with "economy" vehicles and claimed its efficiency is "shitty" compared to all of them. That's why I challenged you to come up with another "economy" vehicle with better fuel economy, and you still cannot.
quote:
...the Volt doesn't hold much appeal because it's ICE mileage is really bad

quote:
We're talking the MPG of JUST the ICE engine. Which is horrible

quote:
Combined efficiency is a crock because it swings wildly based on trip distance. For example when GM arrived at their 200+ MPG test numbers

You were complaining about the Volt's ICE-only fuel economy, which does not vary with trip distance. Hence why I said previously:

quote:
Masospaghetti: Name one "economy" vehicle that has a combined cycle EPA number higher than the Volt.

Volt: 35/40/37 MPG


I'm still waiting.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Reclaimer77 on 12/6/2011 3:00:50 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, still waiting for you to read the links. You obviously haven't or you're just THAT obtuse and stubborn on this thing.

To be honest you're moving the goalposts so much I don't even care anymore. First we're talking the ICE economy, then you throw in "combined cycle", then dare me to find a car that beats the Volt on MPG on the gas engine but you refer, again, to combined cycle!

quote:
I'm still waiting.


You're serious? I thought that was a joke, because not even someone as ignorant as you could actually think the Volt is THE most efficient car out there. You can KEEP waiting, because I'm not going to waste my time answering a question that any sane human being would view as rhetorical.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Masospaghetti on 12/6/2011 3:15:24 PM , Rating: 2
"Combined cycle" means city+highway driving on the ICE alone, and had nothing to do with the battery, hence why I wrote (for the third time now)
quote:
Masospaghetti: Name one "economy" vehicle that has a combined cycle EPA number higher than the Volt.

Volt: 35/40/37 MPG

If I was including electric operation, that number would have been almost double that. Straight from www.fueleconomy.gov, using their wording, not mine.

So Reclaimer: what "economy" car gets better fuel economy than 35/40 mpg? Did I ask that straightforward enough?

I've completely lost track of what your gripe is about this car. The goalpost hasn't moved.


By Reclaimer77 on 12/6/2011 3:52:32 PM , Rating: 1
My main gripe is the tax rebate. I don't give a fuck if you want to drive a Volt, just don't ask me to help foot the bill for you!


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Jedi2155 on 12/6/2011 6:24:28 AM , Rating: 2
I bet you can run it on regular without any issues as long as you use it up quickly. Their primary fear was the gas going stale due to lack of use.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By Jedi2155 on 12/6/2011 4:51:56 AM , Rating: 2
While I agree the marketing on this vehicle was poor especially compared to the viral success of Nissan's marketing, I still consider it to be a great vehicle.

Your points:

1) Price:
$32,500 is almost comparable to a fully loaded Prius ($28,500), and in the same price range as the upcoming Plug-In Prius at $32,000 which is far less technologically advance and capable than the Volt. Not to mention the Volt has more performance, handles better, and has more standard features.

2) Range
This car was designed a commuter car first with the option of road trips. Not the other way around. As a commuter vehicle it is perfect for around 70% of the US population who drives less than 40 miles a day. It is still cheaper to drive than the Prius as long as you drive less than 70 miles in day. For those who regularly drive 40 miles a day with the occasional 60-100 mile trips, this vehicle is perfect. If you need a long distance vehicle, the Prius is better but for the most people drive reasonable distances, the volt is a far better choice (barring the price).

Fuel Efficiency
I am able to get the equivalent of $1.70/gallon gas per fill up with electricity and 37 MPG on gas is nothing to sneeze at either, although I wish it was more, but I'm sure they'll get much better efficiency in the next generation as this was an off the shelf engine.

The 93 MPGe value shows the efficiency of an electric drive train relative to the actual energy usage of gasoline. Regarding coal power, Southern California and many North Western states does not use coal power at all so it is still super clean. East coast is a different story.

3) Ease of Use
Spending a few seconds to plug in your vehicle at home everyday beats spending having to go out of your way to pump every week.

I don't own a Volt, but I plan to. I try to be as reasonable as possible in my decisions, and so far I find the vehicle to be completely reasonable, while most naysayers either are not familiar enough with the technology or do not understand its market well enough.


RE: This car was complete fail...
By BSMonitor on 12/6/2011 12:46:14 PM , Rating: 2
Your post is a complete fail.

How far car your Prius go without gas??

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