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Diesel cars are plentiful in Europe

As the demand for more efficiency in vehicles increases with the government and some consumers in the U.S., some drivers are starting to consider vehicles that previously weren't popular options. One of the efficient options that consumers are starting to take notice of is the diesel engine. Clean diesels are one of the technologies that several major automakers are now looking into.
The Detroit News reports that as of now diesel sales in the U.S. are less than 3% of the total sales, which is expected to change. One of the new diesel vehicles coming to the market is from a domestic manufacturer; Chevrolet will introduce a diesel version of Cruze in 2013. For GM, bringing the diesel Cruz to the U.S. has little risk since it already sells diesel cars in other countries.
The Chevrolet Cruze Diesel will arrive in '13 

Other automakers are looking to diesel cars as well with Mazda expecting to launch a new diesel engine in 2013, and the recipient is likely to be the all-new CX-5 small crossover utility vehicle. German automakers Volkswagen, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes all offer diesel-powered vehicles in the U.S.
Some suppliers to automakers like Robert Bosch LLC are predicting that diesel sales will grow to be 10% of the U.S. market over the next decade. Diesel cars are very popular in Europe where gasoline is expensive and diesel is more cost effective.
And it's not only economy cars that will be going diesel -- some performance cars are moving to diesel engines. BMW is expected to launch a diesel version of the M5 next year.
Mazda is widely expected to bring a diesel version of the new CX-5 to the U.S. 

The big draw for diesel engines is that the engines are often more durable, produce more torque, and they are 20 to 30% more efficient.

Source: Detroit News

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Can't wait
By FITCamaro on 11/28/2011 12:38:54 PM , Rating: 4
I want more diesels here. Great mileage and tons of fun.

RE: Can't wait
By Brandon Hill on 11/28/2011 12:44:11 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed! What are you driving these days, Fit? You still have the GTO?

RE: Can't wait
By FITCamaro on 11/28/2011 1:44:46 PM , Rating: 2
GTO for fun.

Saturn Vue for a beater. Gets good mileage and I can throw shit in the back for the house.

RE: Can't wait
By Samus on 11/28/2011 2:39:04 PM , Rating: 3
Great mileage and tons of fun.

I agree. I think driving my friends Golf TDI is a lot of fun. The torque makes shifting easy and its really quiet on the highway. Overall superior driving experience for that class of vehicle.

RE: Can't wait
By Alexvrb on 11/29/2011 12:38:51 AM , Rating: 2
A lot of small diesels lack mid- and top-end power. This VW diesel is no exception. Low-end torque is great, but when your torque curve plummets after that, horsepower suffers. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand motors that are all top-end power, either. Civic Si is a good example, although the latest one isn't quite as terrible. But you really want a good balance of both. I mean, 140HP and 236 ft-lbs of torque? You know what that power curve looks like? It looks like crap.

The gasoline Golf 2.5L is significantly faster - and that's a primitive engine. I think the block is still cast iron. The Gold TDI is a premium trim with premium pricing. If they had a premium gas offering, they could use a small turbocharged direct injected gasoline engine and get a much more impressive balance of speed and mileage than either the TDI or the 2.5L.

Now with that said, diesels have their place. I'm still hoping that light-duty Duramax variant will see the light of day. If you're looking for maximum mileage, get the diesel. If you want to go fast, there's very few diesels that manage to beat comparable gas options in the same vehicle. But there are a few here and there, I'm sure.

RE: Can't wait
By Pneumothorax on 11/29/2011 8:50:32 AM , Rating: 2
I've had a 335d for almost 2 years now. Average 36 or so mpg and there is NO lacking in midrange power and will keep charging like. Locomotive towards it's redline. Main beefs with it is the lack of a manual tranny and the engine diesn sound as good as it's gasoline equivalent.

RE: Can't wait
By FITCamaro on 11/29/2011 1:49:30 PM , Rating: 2
Actually I was on VWs website last night and you can get a base Golf with a diesel and a 6 speed for just over $23K. If you add the "technology pack" and DSG it goes up. But that was just with things like cloth seats and the like. You didn't have to get the top trim Golf to get a diesel.

RE: Can't wait
By silverblue on 11/28/2011 1:01:02 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. Also, for the moment anyway, diesels command higher resale prices - good if you're looking to upgrade.

Most newer diesels come with a turbocharger which means my little 2 litre 8v car is more efficient and easily more powerful than the 1.2l 8v petrol I used to have. Regardless of the engine size, the fact I'm using less fuel and can climb hills with ease is very important, not to mention far more satisfying. I hated my little petrol's inability to hold its speed up a moderate slope, and it had not even half the torque of my current car.

RE: Can't wait
By MonkeyPaw on 11/28/2011 1:42:11 PM , Rating: 2
I think that diesels definitely have their place in vans, trucks and SUVs, but the price of diesel is quite a bit higher right now vs regular 87. The power might be worth it, but there may not be much savings with the better economy when fuel prices are considered. Either way, I say bring em home!

RE: Can't wait
By Hieyeck on 11/28/2011 1:50:01 PM , Rating: 3
Umm.. you know European diesels pull about 60-70 mpg? That's double their equivalent gas models and still better than hybrids?

RE: Can't wait
By Shig on 11/28/2011 3:18:38 PM , Rating: 2
I've always thought of America as about free choice. Yet finding a solid diesel or hybrid that looks half way decent is almost impossible...Let alone natural gas, electric, fuel cell, and other exotic transport. The technology and resources are there, I wonder why these other 'choices' aren't more transarent or available, hmmm?

RE: Can't wait
By Shig on 11/28/2011 3:19:22 PM , Rating: 2
Spelling is hard =D

RE: Can't wait
By Solandri on 11/28/2011 6:03:02 PM , Rating: 2
1) EU mpg figures are based on the UK's imperial gallons, which is 4.55 liters. The U.S. uses liquid gallons, which are 3.79 liters.

2) The EU uses a different mileage testing cycle than the U.S., which involves much less stop-and-go and lower average highway speeds. Consequently, EU mileage ratings (or liters per 100 km, as they use there) are significantly higher than U.S. EPA mileage ratings. The 2011 CR-Z works out to 38.6 | 53.4 mpg by the two EU ratings (roughly, city | highway). Under EPA tests the same car gets the equivalent of 30.9 | 36.8 mpg.

3) Diesel contains more matter (and energy) per unit volume than gasoline. To equalize the two in terms of mass, you need to reduce diesel's mileage by about 12%. Diesel also emits more pollutants, and the recommendation to equalize for that is to reduce diesel's mileage by 20%.

TLDR version: Don't compare EU mileage to U.S. mileage, or diesel mpg to gasoline mpg. They're totally different.

RE: Can't wait
By Alexvrb on 11/29/2011 12:06:45 AM , Rating: 2
Trying to explain this to people over and over is like bashing your head against your desk repeatedly, while some jackoff tells you that the same desk in Europe would somehow cushion the impact and reduce the bleeding.

Even the TLDR version is too complex. I recommend resorting to grunts and chest thumps.

RE: Can't wait
By bbomb on 11/29/2011 1:00:58 PM , Rating: 2
And you can take around 10 mpg off the EPA estimate to get the real world MPG. They have never ever even been in the same ballpark as what the vehicle truly gets.

RE: Can't wait
By FITCamaro on 11/30/2011 8:13:10 AM , Rating: 2
I usually get over EPA estimates.

RE: Can't wait
By angryplayer on 11/30/2011 11:57:22 PM , Rating: 1
1 + 2. What? He's comparing EU vs EU. eg. Ford Mondeo - 65mpg vs 40 mpg (source: Ford Mondeo UK). OK, so he's embellishing, but that's still a whole 25mpg better. Converting is roughly 1 US mpg = 1.2 UK mpg (source: ). 65 UK mpg is STILL 54 US mpg. Ridiculously bad hybrids like a Lexus LS 600h only have 25 US mpg using EU tests (source: Lexus UK). You'd have to compare to the smuggest of smugmobiles at 72 UK mpg, and frankly, the Prius is HIDEOUS compared to the new Fusions (rather nice for a run-of-the-mill family sedan) and I don't think that constitutes a COMPARison.

3. Assigning arbitrary percentages and swings to the environmental cost of diesel? Well, this was about $/m, but hey, let's play YOUR game. I could argue that because Diesel is denser, it is therefore more efficient to transport, requiring 40% less trucks to deliver the same number of miles produced. And how the hell does pollutants affect mpg? Even if we used your silly equivalency numbers 60% more miles delivered -12% -20% is still 28% more miles delivered, still outweighing the extra 10% cost (some places sell diesel 20% CHEAPER, so there's some benefit of doubt in your favor).

Also, did you know that gasoline is worse than gasoline? Wait, what? Yep. Mythbusters, season 9, episode 13. OK, Mythbuster numbers aren't the best, but they give a rough idea. Apples and oranges!

TL;DR: If you're going to bash someone, at least do the research. Also, apples and oranges.

PS Don't nitpick my percentages, i.e. how 60% should acutally be 62.5%. My issue is there's no demonstratable evidence (as opposed to accuracy/precision) for Solandri's percentages.

PPS silly spam filter.

RE: Can't wait
By sigmatau on 11/28/2011 9:18:34 PM , Rating: 2
Actualy they don't pull 60-70 mpg. I don't believe any diesel in Europe can pull that in the US. You must be using non-US measurements/testing which is way off.

RE: Can't wait
By gvaley on 11/29/2011 8:10:21 AM , Rating: 2
I drive the 2004 Citroen C5 2.0 litre diesel in Europe (think Hyundai Sonata, I think you call this "a compact" in the US although in Europe that's a huge car) and I get 43 mpg (US) on a mixed highway/intercity road, although if I try really hard I can get it up to 52 mpg (or down to 36 at constant 81 mph). I get twice as less in the city but I'm talking a really congested city here.

Just wanted to give you a point of reference. A segment C car (think Golf) will get a much better mpg with a similar engine.

You owe me a beer for working hard to convert l/100 km to mpg.

RE: Can't wait
By Camikazi on 11/29/2011 9:35:22 AM , Rating: 2
Hyundai Sonata is considered a mid to full size car in the US. The Elantra is their compact with the Accent being the subcompact.

RE: Can't wait
By Calin on 11/29/2011 6:18:26 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, but the European (UK) gallons are bigger too

RE: Can't wait
By Camikazi on 11/29/2011 9:31:17 AM , Rating: 2
60-70 Imperial gallons, not US gallons, go check the differences :)

RE: Can't wait
By sigmatau on 11/28/2011 9:16:18 PM , Rating: 2
Diesels have good low end torque. I never drove one so I can't say if it's fun or not but judging from what BMW offers, it must be nice.

I hope they don't chicken out like Honda did and not bring the diesel to the US. Honda was supposed to have a diesel in the US a few years ago.

I am glad diesels (for passenger vehicles) are much cleaner than they used to be. I will say that diesel trucks are some of the dirtiest crap on the road now. I'm guessing these diesels are either really old or there is something wrong with them. I can smell a dirty diesel about 3-4 miles away if I am behind one. The day they go away would be awesome. Or maybe they can just clean up the exhaust somehow.

RE: Can't wait
By jayfang on 12/1/2011 8:32:24 AM , Rating: 2
Last few months driving a Mazda 6 Sport with 180 bhp 2.2 litre (R2 series) diesel motor. Surprising smooth, revs easily and the 300 lb-foot torque has a real overtaking kick.

And even even compared to
* Honda Civic Type-R EP3 (2.0L petrol 200 bhp)
* BMW 318i (2.0L petrol 146 bhp)
Genuinely FUN

In actual use seeing economy very close to that listed at (actual 48 mpg vs 50mpg imperial rating)

RE: Can't wait
By Reclaimer77 on 11/29/2011 1:51:30 AM , Rating: 2
Except this isn't Europe. Diesel can be up to $1 gallon higher than regular fuel here in the U.S.

So not only are the vehicles more expensive than regular gas versions, but the fuel is too. Errr, win-win?

RE: Can't wait
By EVdriver on 11/29/2011 5:07:03 PM , Rating: 2
Diesels are way LESS efficient than gasoline hybrids, more polluting than gas cars, maintenance costs are much more higher than gas cars and diesel fuel is more expensive than gas.
Diesel is a dead end.

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