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Ford Focus Electric
Ford Focus Electric won't come cheap

We first brought you news of the production Ford Focus Electric earlier this year when it was officially unveiled at CES 2011 in Las Vegas. Now, Ford has spilled the beans on how much the all-electric car will cost when it debuted next year.
 
According to Ford's new online price configurator/reservation page, the Focus Electric will have a base price of $39,200 plus a destination charge of $795 bringing the total to $39,995. Since the U.S. government is handing money out left and right for "green" vehicles, the price of the Ford Focus Electric drops to $32,495 after a $7,500 federal tax credit.
 
To put this pricing in perspective, the all-electric Nissan Leaf has a base MSRP of $36,050 while the Chevrolet Volt has a base MSRP of $39,995. Both of those figures are before the $7,500 federal tax credit is taken into consideration.
 
The Focus Electric is powered by a 123hp (181 lb-ft torque) electric motor and a 23 kWh lithium-ion battery pack that was co-developed with LG Chem. Top speed for the vehicle is a relatively meager 84 mph.
 
There’s no word on how far the Focus Electric will go on a charge, but we’re guessing that it will be targeting the Nissan’s Leaf’s EPA rating of 73 miles on a charge.

Source: Ford Focus Electric Homepage



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By ultimatebob on 11/2/2011 5:03:27 PM , Rating: 5
A gasoline powered Ford Focus costs $18,200, and gets 40 MPG.

The electric powered Ford Focus costs $40,000, and I'm not sure how many KWH it takes to fully charge. Look it up.

Assume that gas stays at $4 a gallon over the lifetime of the car, and electricity stays at 13 per KWH over the lifetime of the car. How many miles do you have to drive before the Electric Focus becomes profitable?




By ultimatebob on 11/2/2011 5:05:06 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, that's 13 cents per KWH, by the way.


By Slyne on 11/2/2011 5:14:43 PM , Rating: 5
I thought it was well understood that electric vehicles are, at this point, a statement more than anything else.

Early adopters always pay more, either because they want the latest and greatest, differentiate themselves, or because they want to help fostering adoption of a new trend/technology/etc.

Whether in the short or long term, electric vehicles will become the norm. But to have one today, you must pay more. Like for eveything else, it's up to everyone to rationalize the purchase however they want to.


By lightfoot on 11/2/2011 6:54:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I thought it was well understood that electric vehicles are, at this point, a statement more than anything else.

Then why the hell is our government subsidizing them so heavily?? If they are just a status symbol for the upper middle class they shouldn't be given massive tax credits. I don't care who you are, Dem or Rep, Conservative or Liberal, taking tax dollars to subsidize the toys of the wealthy doesn't make ANY sense.

Government tax incentives should be toward R&D, if anything, not production.


By sigmatau on 11/2/2011 8:28:02 PM , Rating: 5
They are not subsidizing it nearly as much as the oil industry. Isn't that the more important question? Why is the government subsidizing something that is profitable more than something that is not but will be so beneficial to its citizens?


By YashBudini on 11/3/2011 12:29:30 AM , Rating: 3
http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/16/oil-industry-sub...

Yeah, much like the corn industry apparently.


By Spuke on 11/2/2011 10:17:12 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Why is the government subsidizing something that is profitable more than something that is not but will be so beneficial to its citizens?
Explain how oil is not beneficial.


By Solandri on 11/3/2011 1:33:01 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
They are not subsidizing it nearly as much as the oil industry.

Sigh, not this again.

Per unit of energy produced, oil is subsidized much, much less than green energy initiatives. Subsidies for oil amount to less than a penny per dollar you spend on gas, while subsidies for solar are nearly a quarter per dollar you spend on panels.

I really wish people for green energy would drop this ridiculous argument. It's embarrassing. It's like complaining that it's unfair that your neighbor got a 10x bigger tax return than you did, while omitting that you're single while your neighbor is an apartment complex with 500 residents.


By ebakke on 11/3/2011 9:19:02 AM , Rating: 3
I agree with one slight change to your first sentence:

I think the point is NO subsidies.


By sigmatau on 11/5/2011 3:20:20 PM , Rating: 2
Sigh, thanks for not addressing most of my post.

Why are we subsidizing a profitable industry that is hurting our citizens instead of one that is not profitable yet but would be more beneficial?

Now ready my post carefully as I did not mince words.


By rameshms on 11/2/2011 9:26:48 PM , Rating: 1
More than the economics of owning the electric cars, the White carpool stickers you get (here in California) for all electric cars makes these electric cars priceless... That said, white stickers can be obtained for civics/fords that run on Natural gas also.. IMO, electric cars are better because they could be charged practically anywhere (home/work/McD's/...)


By Spuke on 11/2/2011 10:17:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
IMO, electric cars are better because they could be charged practically anywhere (home/work/McD's/...)
Where can they be charged besides home?


By alwaysright on 11/2/2011 5:14:51 PM , Rating: 2
Well, you have to drive about 150,000 miles to cover the $15k difference in cost alone.


By Shig on 11/2/2011 5:25:59 PM , Rating: 2
The numbers are a little bit off, but your point is still valid, ordinary people can't buy this.

This car is for FLEETs ! Municipalities that drive the same routes every day, car rental companies in high density urban areas, military base general transportation, large vertically integrated solar and/or power electronics corporations.


By Stiggalicious on 11/2/2011 5:22:49 PM , Rating: 5
OK, here's the assumptions:
-Gas stays $4/gal for the life of the car.
-Electricity stays at $.13/kWh.
-It takes the 23kWh battery pack to go 100 miles in the Focus, and charging the batteries is 100% efficient.
-Driving 12,000 miles per year.
-$7,500 tax credit has been taken on the electric

Gas: 40mpg @ 12,000 mi/yr = 300Gal/yr = $1,200/yr.
Electric: 23kWh/100mi = 2,760kWh/yr = $358.80/yr.

This makes a nice, simple system of linear equations:
gas: y = 1,200x + 18,200
electric: y = 358.8x + 32495

Solving for x gives you 16.99 years.

Just providing some raw calculations for your numeric pleasure =]


By UnauthorisedAccess on 11/2/2011 5:38:33 PM , Rating: 2
If (a big if) this car comes to Australia then it'll suffer at the hands of AUD$.40/kWh (US$.42/kWh ish) peak costs.

Unless you've got ample photovoltaic then this car would be purchased purely as an environmental statement and not a financial one.


By Putradude on 11/2/2011 6:33:06 PM , Rating: 5
Here in Quebec / Canada assuming 1 USD = 1 CAD
electricity is at $.07/kWh(almost 100% from hydroelectricity)and gas is highly taxed at $5.00/gal. This making electric vehicle more viable in our economy.

Using Stiggalicious example, it will cost:
gas: 300Gal/yr = $1500/yr
Electric: 2,760kWh/yr = $193.20/yr

gas: y = 1500x +18200
electric: y = 193.20x +32495
x gives 10.94 years or 131 000 miles
price on gas grow faster than electricity so electric car in near futur will become favorable in Quebec


By Kerdal on 11/2/2011 7:27:07 PM , Rating: 3
Except for our damn winters which basically kill any battery. They would need to make a serious breakthrough on battery technology before we can hope for a viable BEV or expend the energy to keep the battery compartment heated which means an increased cost (would've to keep plugged in all the time it's not in use, etc.) and/or reduced battery life.

But then again, I'm in the far northwest part of the province, it's usually a bit worse here. (And I'm talking true north not 1 hour north of Mtl)


By EddyKilowatt on 11/2/2011 6:50:09 PM , Rating: 2
Why would you charge it during peak hours, unless you absolutely had to?

Charge it at night, drive it during the day. Don't buy it if your day regularly features more than 100 miles of driving.

What are your 10PM to 5 AM rates like down there?


By sigmatau on 11/2/2011 8:32:01 PM , Rating: 2
My electric company does not have peak hours for some reason. I am not sure if nuclear power has anything to do with it.


By ppardee on 11/2/2011 8:53:35 PM , Rating: 2
Peak/Off-peak hours are less about the power source and more about demand... it's hard to spin up/spin down any type of generation and there is a maximum capacity of the sources, so when demand exceeds immediate supply, they buy the power from other companies and do so at a premium. So, when demand is high, they try to discourage use by charging more and get the added benefit of having the outsourced power paid for by consumers.


By MonkeyPaw on 11/2/2011 6:26:52 PM , Rating: 2
You can't assume 40mpg for the life of the car, as you're more likely to see 30-35mpg net over the lifetime of the car. Electric is good for urban driving, and gas does best on the highway. It's why hybrids are a better bet these days.


By RDO CA on 11/2/2011 7:23:48 PM , Rating: 2
Cost to charge is probably less than you figured as the battery is a 23kwh but they will not use all of it so you do not have to charge all. The Volt has a 16KWH battery and they have a bottom and top buffer so the total usable is 10.4 KWH. which gives the 40 miles.


By kjboughton on 11/2/2011 8:16:12 PM , Rating: 2
Assumptions of 100% charger efficiency are a pipe dream as well. Use 93% as this is about as good as it gets (for now).


By YashBudini on 11/3/2011 12:33:07 AM , Rating: 2
When it comes to electrical components you can bet heat = waste (heaters excluded). Generators, motors, transformers, power converters, nobody's perfect.


By tng on 11/3/2011 7:33:40 AM , Rating: 3
He at least put it in there, didn't check all his calcs.

What I am surprised at is that you don't point out what I think is obvious here, 16 years, 13 years to a breakeven point? Are you kidding me?

The people who espouse all of the great attributes of EVs are the same people who are always telling us about how better batteries are just around the corner or the Super Capacitor is just a matter of time.

Normally these people have not one iota of real world engineering knowledge and yet they would want to keep a car (16 years) supposedly long after the ultimate battery makes it's appearance? Right.

The ultimate environmental statement is driving a reasonably fuel efficient car and keeping it for a good long time (10+ years), not some EV.


By retrospooty on 11/3/2011 8:38:03 AM , Rating: 2
"16 years, 13 years to a breakeven point? Are you kidding me?"

That is assuming only 12k miles per year. Alot of people drive more than that. I do 30k per year easily, so that less than halves it. I could see this working for fleet vehicles that drive even more than I do... But not for std. consumers yet. I'll stick with my 2012 Civic's 39mpg.


By tng on 11/3/2011 9:07:28 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, should have thought of that as my own commute is 50 miles one way.

I notice that allot of the people here who do comment pro or con on these things just assume that people live in a large metro area and have short commutes. That explains why so many people are so pro EV, they just assume that their situation is typical.


By rdhood on 11/4/2011 4:11:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I notice that allot of the people here who do comment pro or con on these things just assume that people live in a large metro area and have short commutes. That explains why so many people are so pro EV, they just assume that their situation is typical.


Bingo. That is the environmentalist/Democrat social engineering aspect of this. They don't assume anything. The want to artificially raise gasoline prices (through taxes) to FORCE you into these conditions. Then, they want to make driving so expensive that you will take mass transit. Signs at the "Occupy" protests deem that no one should live in a house with more than four rooms.

Some of us, though, are realists. I have lived in the same house for almost 20 years. Through mergers, acquisitions, layoffs, I have worked at 4 different sites separated from each other by up to 50 miles. There is nowhere I could have lived in the past 20 years where I could have been guaranteed that an EV would be sufficient for the life of the vehicle. If one's life is so static that you know you will never need to go more than 60 or 80 miles round trip... and you can afford it... more power to you. But these are NOT general purpose vehicles that will suit the life experiences of most people.


By iamezza on 11/3/2011 7:00:08 PM , Rating: 2
Problem is how would you rack up these massive miles in a car that has a range of ~75miles before requiring a recharge time of a few hours.. without a fast-charge / battery-swap infrastructure in place first I don't see how it could work.


By Spuke on 11/3/2011 3:24:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What I am surprised at is that you don't point out what I think is obvious here, 16 years, 13 years to a breakeven point? Are you kidding me?
I saw that too but the cost of electricity stuck out more because that would throw all his calcs out the window.

quote:
Normally these people have not one iota of real world engineering knowledge and yet they would want to keep a car (16 years) supposedly long after the ultimate battery makes it's appearance? Right.
The thing is that most of these people are NOT going to buy an EV. They just want them built and "everyone else" to buy them. Cost seems to be a prevailing issue among those that support EV's and these are seemingly out of "their" price range. I want EV's to become the norm but I'm not going to buy one. Huh? LOL!


By rubbertoe on 11/3/2011 11:26:35 AM , Rating: 1
Assumptions: Gas stays at $4 / gallon for the life of the car.

ROFLMAO, yeah, gas is going to stay at $4.00 per gallon for 10 years. Gas was $2.00 per gallon in January 2009, now it's $4.00 per gallon. And based on that, you think it is not going up for 10 years? Come on...

Nobody knows what gas will cost in 10 years. But all you have to do is look at the news every month or so to see that the Middle East is going to get nothing but crazier and crazier sooner rather than later. Once Saudi Arabia goes Arab Spring, or Ghawar starts declining, gas is $10 per gallon. You can take that to the bank.

RT


By iamezza on 11/3/2011 7:08:54 PM , Rating: 2
ummm.. no.

There are so many other sources of oil than the middle east. A lot of potential sources of oil are simply too expensive to produce when the price of oil is low. If the price of oil went way up, suddenly there would be a whole host of other ways to produce oil that would now be profitable.


By Keeir on 11/2/2011 5:41:52 PM , Rating: 3
First, lets compare apples to apples. The Ford Electric is more like an electric version of the 22,000+ Titanium with Navigation. My best guess is ~24,000 is the required price for an ICE version.

So the difference is 24,000 --> 32,500 or 8,500 dollars.

Even the SFE versions get only 33 Miles per Gallon (combined)

The Ford Electric will likely get 3 miles per kWh

Overall, adding in the required oil changes, the Electric will cost ~8 cents less per mile in terms of fuel. Thus, ~105,000 miles the Ford focus Electric will be a better "deal" than the closest outfitted Ford Focus. Your personal value of a navigation system will impact somewhat this perception of "value"


By YashBudini on 11/2/2011 5:56:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The Ford Electric will likely get 3 miles per kWh

Here we pay appx 20 cents/kwh, so figure 7 cents per mile.

Gas at $3.60/gallon divided by 40MPG = 9 cents a gallon (highway only), can be twice that in stop and go traffic in the winter. But then factor in ICE maintenance, oil changes can account for as much as 1 penny per mile, transmission fluid changes, air filters, spark plugs, timing belts, as applicable.

I wonder how soon people stealing power right off the pole becomes a major problem for utilities companies. That's not even addressing grid capacity issues.


By Keeir on 11/2/2011 6:31:09 PM , Rating: 2
Read the OP remark? I was using his values

Of course here we pay .08 dollars per kWh, so you know that varies all across the world and the US.

quote:
I wonder how soon people stealing power right off the pole becomes a major problem for utilities companies. That's not even addressing grid capacity issues.


Doom and gloom! You know the big TV craze? or even the original TV craze?

An electric car is likely to use ~11 kWh a day. Adoption rate suggests that at most 500,000 will be added a year for the forseable future. A large plasma TV that is on 8 hours a day will add more than 10 kWh a day to electric bill of a home. Yet I hear no one pronouncing gloom even though people buy millions of ever larger/hungier electronics ever year.

Even at 20 cents/kilowatt hour, the 12,000 mile average driving will amount to just 800 dollars a year. Far below what the average person pays for gas right now at (12,000/25*3.6)= 1,700. (Your numbers, mine are significant greater difference. Today I would pay 320 electric versus 1920 gas in my current car.)


By YashBudini on 11/2/2011 7:48:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Read the OP remark? I was using his values

Whatever. I never invalidated them. I was simply adding another example for comparison purposes.

quote:
A large plasma TV that is on 8 hours a day will add more than 10 kWh a day to electric bill of a home.

I informed a friend that his TV was using over 1 horsepower 750+ watts just to watch the news.

quote:
Doom and gloom!

Are you sure you've addressed the state of the US grid to any degree? Even 65 inch plasmas take a back seat to electric resistance heaters, hot water heaters, electric dryers, and soon some number of EVs.


By corduroygt on 11/2/2011 5:56:47 PM , Rating: 2
You're conveniently ignoring the loan interest costs, opportunity costs, the costs to rent another vehicle any time you want to go more than 100 miles, and depreciation (more expensive cars depreciate more) in your computation. I'm sure when you add all that up, it takes a hell lot longer than 105k miles to make up the difference.


By Keeir on 11/2/2011 6:44:09 PM , Rating: 2
Not really.

But I concede, without knowing how you personally would use the car, I couldn't possibly predict how long it takes to pay back.

Cost to Own over 150,000 miles

Assumptions:
2% Opportunity Cost^10 year=1.22
All Cash Purchase
2x Rentals a Year: 100 per Rental
Oil Change ever 5,000 Miles - 50 Dollars
Brake Change every 30,000 Miles - 250 Dollars
Major Ice Maintainence every 50,000 Miles - 500 Dollars
Major Electric Service every 100,000 miles - 1,000 Dollars
Resell Value - 25% of initial price (post rebate)
Gas: 4.00 (Slightly Above US Average Today)
Electric: .15 (Slightly Above US Average Today)

Titanium ICE:
Purchase Price: 24,000
Fuel: 18,100
Opp. Cost: 5,280
Service: 4,250
Salvage Value: -6,000

Total Cost = 45,630

Electric:
Purchase Price: 39,500
Fuel: 7,425
Rentals: 2,000
Opp. Cost: 8,690
Service: 1,500
Rebate: -7,500
Salvage Value= -8,000

Total Cost: 43,615

Seems if I am accounting for Opp. Cost, some rentals, etc, the Electric is probably going to pull ahead between 100,000 to 150,000 miles. Now if you drive 150 miles once a week, the Electric Focus is not a good choice for you. Duh. But there is a fairly large segment that rarely drives that far very often.


By Spuke on 11/2/2011 10:32:59 PM , Rating: 2
According to Ford, the maintenance costs over the lifetime of the gas Focus amounts to $721.55. I'll just round it down to $720 for simplicity.


By Keeir on 11/3/2011 2:58:37 AM , Rating: 2
Errr... could I sell you some "waterfront" property?

Spunk, looking at the face of it, it seems nearly impossible that a Focus will need less than 1,000 dollar maintenance over 150,000 miles. Especially when I was including Oil Changes, Time Belts, Major Inspections, Brakes, etc.

Even if they have 15,000 mile syn. oil changes, its going to 750 over 150,000... just for oil changes.

I'd read what the consider "maintenance" costs. It is clear doesn't include tires, brakes, or oil changes.


By Spuke on 11/3/2011 3:56:10 PM , Rating: 2
The Focus doesn't have a timing belt (very few if any new cars do and no DI cars do) and Ford's numbers not far fetched at all. At least they listed their scheduled maintenance. You're just pulling stuff out of your butt. My cars maintenance is LESS than Ford is quoting for the Focus. And considering that Ford is figuring auto transmission maintenance, that's understandable. I don't have an auto trans. I have 94k miles on my car. First "major" service is 100k miles when I get new spark plugs. All regular servicing for my car is just oil/oil filter and air filter changes. That's it. There isn't any more to it. Most new cars are like this. I will say that in the next 50k miles I'll have to change my coolant thermostat, brake pads, and maybe my clutch. But you'd have to do that to the EV's too. If you're going to throw unscheduled maintenance, you need to do it to both cars (unless the Focus EV doesn't use brake pads or tires or coolant temp sensors...oh that's right it does).


By Keeir on 11/3/2011 5:50:03 PM , Rating: 2
Spuke,

I can not believe over 94k miles you haven't incurred nearly 500 dollars in oil changes unless your doing it yourself. Even then I believe you have a Syn. Oil type that probably should be changed ever 10,000 miles for a minimum of 9 changes. At ~40 dollars for the oil and filter, even doing it yourself is 360.

Though you bring up a good point. Using a manual can extend your brake life AND reduce repair costs (though I wonder what the clutch replacement will cost).

Here are what 'professional' TCO estimates are saying

Motortrend estimates over 60,000 miles that maintenance for a Ford Focus Titanium Hatch will be 1,600 and repairs 600. Total of 2,200

Edmunds estimates over 75,000 miles that maintenance will be 1,900 and repairs 700. Total of 2,600

Yahoo Auto estimates over 75,000 miles that maintenance will be 2,100 and repairs 1,400

quote:
unless the Focus EV doesn't use brake pads or tires or coolant temp sensors...oh that's right it does


Ideally you use the engine to brake. Brake pad life ought to be super extended on an EV in compared to an ICE. Repairs to the regions probably cost more.

Coolant sensor where again? Oh yeah, the battery coolant system? No where near as complicated as the ICE version. No Oil, No Emissions, etc, etc, etc. (The Ford Engine still has a few serpentine belts)

Post a link to the ford estimate, I'd be curious to read thier fine print.


By YashBudini on 11/3/2011 12:18:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:

Oil Change ever 5,000 Miles - 50 Dollars
Brake Change every 30,000 Miles - 250 Dollars
Major Ice Maintainence every 50,000 Miles - 500 Dollars
Major Electric Service every 100,000 miles - 1,000 Dollars

Oddly enough each of these is about a penny per mile. Note the brake cost shown is per axle, so multiply by 2. Tires are close to a penny a mile for good ones. And ironically the occasional battery replacement.

Notably missing from the EV:
fuel filters
gas tank leaks and replacements
high pressure fuel pumps, inside the gas tank
fuel line leaks
catalytic converter/O2 sensor and exhaust replacements (probably about a penny per mile)
spark plugs
Chevron Techron on a regular basis
Cold gas station bathrooms with no running water or toilet paper


By retrospooty on 11/3/2011 8:40:36 AM , Rating: 2
"Cold gas station bathrooms with no running water or toilet paper"

- priceless


By Dr of crap on 11/3/2011 9:16:56 AM , Rating: 1
Really?
Now we're down to adding in oil changes and such.
Who's to say there won't be breaks downs in these EVs?
What possible problems might these also incounter?
Don't foget plugs go 100,000 miles now. Oil changes every 5-8,000 miles.

Maybe you should include reduced range in the winter months.
Oh, that's right the ones that buy these won't live around here where it gets below zero. This is where gas rules the land.


By kjboughton on 11/2/2011 8:11:47 PM , Rating: 2
Tier 5 pricing for electric power in my area (in California) from PG&E is $0.365/kWh.

$0.13/kWh sound like a real deal!


By YashBudini on 11/3/2011 12:21:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Tier 5 pricing for electric power in my area (in California) from PG&E is $0.365/kWh.

Was that before or after the Supreme Court said corporations are people too?


By Keeir on 11/3/2011 3:05:14 AM , Rating: 2
Huh?

This has nothing to do with corporations and everything to do with the way California seems to operate.

IE... we shall not do X no matter the cost.

Environmental laws and public opinion make it very difficult to build power plants in California. Thus California always needs to import or store its excess power in very inefficient means (ironically causing more harm to the environment due to waste...). If the corporations were given free reign, California would have cheap power again... with a local environmental cost to be sure.


By slumberingfool on 11/2/2011 9:31:54 PM , Rating: 2
Has anyone factored in the costs to replace the batteries.
How quickly will the driving distance drop with old batteries in cold weather?


By Spuke on 11/2/2011 10:37:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Has anyone factored in the costs to replace the batteries. How quickly will the driving distance drop with old batteries in cold weather?
No one really figures battery replacement costs into the ownership experience (I would) although the figures are available from most manufacturers. Driving distance in cold weather, unfortunately, really depends on the load and the temperature. That said, battery performance depends on the load and the temperature regardless.


By Keeir on 11/3/2011 3:10:01 AM , Rating: 2
1. Its hard to understand what cost a battery in the future would be.

2. Its hard to predict when a battery replacement would be required. For example with a Volt, a Battery replacement would not be -required- in 20 years. You may end up with 5 miles AER, but it will still run.

3. People tend to ignore the cost of replacing an engine or major system overall. Both of these are common on 150,000-200,000 mile ICEs. And yes, most cars remain in the marketplace with a second owner up to ~200,000 miles.


By corduroygt on 11/3/2011 9:52:49 AM , Rating: 2
1. Does not mean it's zero.
2. Again, doesn't mean it's zero.
3. You definitely do not need to replace a gas engine after 150k miles if it's maintained properly.
4. The average American changes cars every 5 years.

Then, there's instances like last weekends New England snowstorm where millions were left without power for 2-3 days. They at least had their cars to drive somewhere with power and gas up in 5 minutes...


By Spuke on 11/3/2011 4:06:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Both of these are common on 150,000-200,000 mile ICEs.
Guess I'd better hide ALL of my previous cars with 150k to 250k on the original engines before the government finds out. Dude, if you're swapping engines like that, you need to stay with cheap, high mileage cars. You don't need an EV or anything over $5k.


By Samus on 11/3/2011 10:53:30 AM , Rating: 2
The Focus FEI gets 40MPG highway and clearly electric cars aren't targeted at highway drivers.

Using a more conservative 30MPG city figure (the FEI does get 32MPG city, but thats on the high-end of the spectrum for city mileage in a car this large) the real advantages come in for stop-and-go traffic.

Aside from the fact that the electric will be a magnitude cheaper to operate for inner-city traveling, it will undoubtedly be more reliable (one moving part opposed to hundreds) and its modular design of accessories will be cheaper to maintain.

The lithium battery pack will probably last 10 years, 7 of which are under warranty. So thats a non-issue. ~15% of Americans hold onto their cars for more than 8 years. 50% replace their vehicles when they are out of warranty, or apx. every 4 years.

The car is clearly a good buy for certain people, and like all electric cars, isn't marketed at the general population. Stop dissing something you don't understand.

Vehicles like this make sense for fleet, livery and short inner-city commute.

The national average for electricity is 8 cents/kWh, not 13 cents. Inner city areas have cheaper electricity (9 cents here in Chicago) because power is usually nuclear. Rural areas, where this car makes zero-cents anyway, have more expensive electricity (usually fosil-fuel) although thats changing as wind power is being rapidly deployed in rural areas, at least here in the Midwest.


By Dr of crap on 11/3/2011 12:46:40 PM , Rating: 1
Thanks for that post.

I agree city driving is the ONLY place EVs make sense.

And I'm glad you posted 50% get a new car every 4-5 years.
Another reason that EVs AREN'T for the average driver.
You can't recoup the cash layout in 5 years.
But then you can't recoup normal new car prices at that time either!


By Spuke on 11/3/2011 4:47:42 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
But then you can't recoup normal new car prices at that time either!
The reason why people bring that subject up is because the pro-EV crowd uses that argument to support EV "superiority" over gasoline cars. I personally believe if you can make it work then that's all that's needed. But some seem to need to "bash" another's purchase in order to feel good about their purchase. Especially since snobbery is now en vogue.


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