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Print 76 comment(s) - last by evo slevven.. on Sep 19 at 5:49 PM


We attended Intel's cooling presentation this morning.

Intel's engineer complains that Apple is more concerned about making its products pretty than fixing their overheating problems.
What can Intel do to stop companies like Apple from selling overheating designs? "Nothing", presenter says.

In the quick IDF 2011 notes category, we wanted to share a humorous exchange we had with an Intel Corp. (INTC) engineer.  Joshua Linden-Levy is a "Mechanical Pathfinding Engineer" at Intel and delivered a terrific presentation on cooling in Oak Trail, the Intel Atom platform that replaces Pine Trail.

In the presentation Mr. Linden-Levy discussed how the target temperature for laptops was 58 Celsius, according to industry standards.  Given the high temperatures long suffered by various editions of Apple, Inc.'s (AAPL) MacBook Pros, we wanted to ask him how Intel plans to keep its partners (like Apple) from violating the proposed thermal guidelines on Oak Trail and its other product lines (Apple is unlikely to use Oak Trail, but typically uses other Intel's mainstream notebook and desktop processor lines in its models).

During the Q&A session Mr. Linden-Levy acknowledged hearing about Apple's laptop thermal issues.  What can Intel do prevent partners from committing such thermal botch jobs?  "Nothing," says Mr. Linden-Levy, "[the manufacturer will] just get a bad reputation among consumers."

As we discussed the issue further he added, "Well as you know, with Apple their chief priority is always form and looks -- everything else, including cooling design is an afterthought."

We found the presenter's informed, earnest unscripted dialogue about one of his company's largest partners refreshing.

Currently the thermal problem-plagued MacBook Pro models sell for almost twice the price of comparable hardware models from ASUSTEK Computer Inc. (TPE:2357).  Of course ASUSTEK's laptops lack the special aluminum unibody -- but when that unibody can get as hot as 100 degrees Celsius, it's hardly a selling point.

To be fair, less pricey models from 
Sony Corp. (TYO:6758) and Dell, Inc. (DELLhave suffered from similar issues [1][2].  Unlike these companies, though, Apple often refuses to recall or fully patch its faulty products.


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That explains it
By Tony Swash on 9/14/2011 8:32:45 PM , Rating: -1
quote:
During the Q&A session Mr. Linden-Levy acknowledged hearing about Apple's laptop thermal issues. What can Intel do prevent partners from committing such thermal botch jobs? "Nothing," says Mr. Linden-Levy, "[the manufacturer will] just get a bad reputation among consumers."


That must be why Apple products so consistently do so well in all polls and surveys of customer product satisfaction.




RE: That explains it
By PReiger99 on 9/14/2011 9:05:05 PM , Rating: 5
Because Apple buyers always value look over performance/functionality. So as long as their overpriced shiny toy remains shiny over time, they will be satisfied.

Basically, they are human version of magpies.


RE: That explains it
By snakeInTheGrass on 9/14/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By Jotatsud1 on 9/14/2011 10:02:41 PM , Rating: 3
It was a total suprise to Apple's engineers and the industry in general that i7 chips generate heat adn therefore you must design proper ventilation systems.

Need more rope?


RE: That explains it
By fcx56 on 9/14/2011 10:18:45 PM , Rating: 1
Quit being dramatic. The previous poster is clearly referencing Atom-class environments. i7 in a tablet? Please, that's what ARM is for.

I just wish Intel would have had the foresight to hold on to XScale, if only as a stopgap. Or even better they could have used it as an additional core in a modular architecture.


RE: That explains it
By TakinYourPoints on 9/14/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By erple2 on 9/15/2011 9:36:53 AM , Rating: 3
Look, buddy, that puzzle game with the apple logo shouldn't make your laptop spin up it's fans like that.


RE: That explains it
By TakinYourPoints on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By TakinYourPoints on 9/15/2011 5:13:06 PM , Rating: 1
Hmm, downvoted because I say that the MBP temps are well within tolerance and that the noise from the fans is no more than Asus or Alienware gaming laptops that I've used, or downvoted because I've been playing the Diablo 3 beta since day 1?

Someone's jealous either way...


RE: That explains it
By Dradien on 9/14/11, Rating: 0
RE: That explains it
By snakeInTheGrass on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By Dradien on 9/15/2011 1:35:01 AM , Rating: 2
"No sh1t, sherlock, want to guess why none of them are using Intel chipsets?"

I'd wager that they weren't designed to? Atom and ARM are utterly different markets as of now, so I don't see where you're getting this idea it was made for crap like the iPad.

"But leave it to Intel to make snide comments on heat dissipation"

Maybe snide, but not unfounded. There are numerous reports of the MacBooks doing just what they are being snide about. Your anecdotal story about having three and none of them burned you doesn't prove anything. Three out of a ridiculous amount is such a small and insignificant number.


RE: That explains it
By Fritzr on 9/15/2011 5:56:56 AM , Rating: 5
Another anecdotal story was from Tony Swash a few weeks ago taking a swipe at Flash

Flash shuts his MacBook Pro down ... due to overheating

He assumed that Flash caused the overheating. He was wrong, the failure to properly cool the CPU caused the overheating.


RE: That explains it
By messele on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By FITCamaro on 9/15/2011 7:25:08 AM , Rating: 2
Intel eventually wants to get Atom into those devices. But it realized it would need several years to get power usage down enough to compete with ARM.

As far as the troll responding to you, Atom uses more power and thus produces more heat because it is an x86 based CPU which is far more complex than an ARM CPU. It's benefits are that it can run x86 applications. Once Intel can shrink its manufacturing processes enough, it might be able to threaten ARM. And while Atom may not be in any tablets yet, it has been pretty damn successful in netbooks which get 10 hours of battery life.


RE: That explains it
By Targon on 9/15/2011 4:09:08 AM , Rating: 2
Atom didn't make it because the only real advantage to the iPad is that it runs the same apps as the iPhone does(plus the fact that Atom sucks). If you were looking at a new architecture, then evaluating what is out there and picking the best price/performance chips makes sense, but if you want a device that is fully compatible with another device, you want the chips to be as similar as possible.


RE: That explains it
By TakinYourPoints on 9/14/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By lukarak on 9/15/2011 2:04:36 AM , Rating: 2
The thing about Apple, well, MBP is that it's aluminum body is a great conductor, so it feels warm on the outside. I never had it have problems with overheating, unlike some others like plastic HPs and Acers over the years.

And they just replaced almost the whole casing of my 4 year old macbook.


RE: That explains it
By Tony Swash on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By Pirks on 9/15/2011 10:46:00 AM , Rating: 2
This upsets techies not because Apple products make their customers happy, but because these Apple products are worse then the competitors' products in the eyes of techies.

A small illustrative example for you. A really tiny Sansa Clip+ 16GB MP3 player does the same thing as iPod nano 16GB but costs half as much.

In the eyes of a techie like me this Sansa is the best MP3 player on the market, and all the Apple customers are braindead idiots for paying DOUBLE the price essentially just for the fruity logo.

However, this does not upset us that much, but there is the other more serious reason for a techie to be upset. This is the frivolous use of the fake "patents" by Apple as described here: http://www.osnews.com/story/25056/The_Community_De...

When a techie sees beloved Samsung devices being banned by these fake "patents" (why they are fake and should be eradicated ASAP is explained at the link above) applied by Apple - this is quite a reason to be upset.

I think they are even more upset about Samsung's stupidity not to "patent" all those fake fishy sketches and vague drawings. Who'd know these fake "patents" even existed in Europe? Now Samsung knows but it's too late.

This is why we are really upset, Tony :)


RE: That explains it
By snakeInTheGrass on 9/15/2011 3:17:27 PM , Rating: 2
The majority of techies I know moved to Macs in the years since the Intel switch, happy to be able to ditch the sh1t that passes for products from most other PC makers.

Another small illustrative example - find an 11" 'ultrabook' at a better price than a MacBook Air. With Thunderbolt, please. It typically just depends on where in the products refresh-cycle you looks. By the time the next Air refresh happens, you'll be able to say 'look, it costs $100 more than X', and then suddenly it will be better than the competition again at an equal or better price. This happens across the majority of the products, if not all. In the case of many of the products, you get to weigh more than just hardware though - I'll pay more just to not have to run Windows and to have access to nicer apps on the portable devices.

The good news is that I don't think you're a braindead idiot for choosing poorly designed products in order to save a few dollars, you're just tasteless. :)

Sansa may be fine now, but given that I moved from my Archos & Creative players years ago to iPods that were smaller, nicer to navigate (the wheel crushed the nav of the competition of the time, not to even mention the touch...), became WAY more useful (web/mail/photos/apps), and are nicer to sync (and will be getting streaming of my library over the internet shortly, to boot), AND that my player now is also my phone, I'm not sure it's relevant. Dedicated MP3 players have the same future as printers - they'll be around, but it's not exactly the center of the technology universe nowadays.

The "Community Design" isn't a patent issue, it's trade dress. Try selling a car that looks like a Ferrari with a Samsung logo on it and let us know how that goes.


RE: That explains it
By evo slevven on 9/19/2011 5:49:03 PM , Rating: 2
Frankly, your post is really part uninformative and part moronic. A 17" Macbook Pro served only slightly better than my coffee maker at making heat. There is a saying in architectural design (points if you know know who said it) that goes "form follows function". I think the Asus G73 (now G74 and so on) were and still are superior to the Macbook Pro 17" series. Difference in price in that area: $800-$1000 pending on configuration of the Apple. Frankly if I have to go out and make revisions on the road, I'd rather have a functional, competent laptop than something that makes for an impressive compact heater. But if I wanted that I'd get a Dyson heater thank you. And I'd need something beefier than what I'd get with a Macbook Air.

Secondly the best and most affordable ultra~thin in my experience are the Toshiba Protege series. A Protege runs for about $700 with 13" screen size and 3.2 lbs weight. That would be a significant ratio of nearly 2:1 for price with a 13" Macbook Air going for $1299 and weighing only a 1/4 pound lighter at 2.9 lbs total weight. That might be the difference of 3 snickers bars in weight.

And I'm going to put this out there to clarify your words of "wisdom". Anyone who knows something more than the next person is now-a-days called a techie. The wanna-be trendies and hipsters get Apple PC's, those who have a pretty good knowledge level rating above average also get Apple. But the people who just know their sh*t get PC's and install Linux or make their own desktops.

At the end of the day, Intel has a point where if your going to make a product that looks good but isn't functional "WHAT'S THE F**KEN USE OF IT!".

And for the record, you actually get a better audio (and always did) with a Zune than you ever got with an iPod. You got better video viewing with an iPod however.

I prefer to be an informed shopper and product advocate and frankly that Macbook Air example of being $100 more is closer to oh $300 if you go 11" to $700. But hey if being off by $200 is no big deal to you, feel free to mail me the difference. And as a side joke I've seen a Samsung logo on a Ferrari, its called race car advertising. Pick a better example next time fanboy.


RE: That explains it
By Onimuto on 9/15/2011 11:30:38 AM , Rating: 1
Well let see apple custer service. Ok let go at it. 100,000,000 of people buy them really now I am the only person I know in real life that owns a sandy bridge mbp. I know more who own iPhones including my self mainly becuase I helped spread the virus of getting iPhones ,which I now regrette.
Only after showing people how to jailbreak did they want the iPhone anyway.
Problems with my apple devices
1. iPhone 8g digitizer broke
2. IPhone 3G broken receiver
3 iPhone 3G head phone jack and bottom comunicaton/charger port worked when it wanted to broken logic board (note this was the phone apple store gave me replace the broken receiver)
4 iPhone 3G over heating shutting off stuck at apple logo ( note this is the phone apple store gave me to replace the broken logic board)
5 iPhone 4 home screen button broken
6 iPhone 4 silent button and volume button broken( this was the phone replaced for broken home screen button)
Now on my third iPhone 4 actually has survived for over 10 months
No I didn't get the 3GS junk no real up grade from 3G.
1 Mac book pro stuck at load screen. new Mac book pro replaced . Problem motherboard. But hey I can't complain to much this Mac book I recived from fixing a car. Was replaced with a Macbook pro instire which had 4 more gigs of ram total of 8 gigs still has the slow ass 5200 rpm hdd.
At the apple store customer service was good. But not any different fro what best but does, petco, sears, ect.
I'm trying Tony I really am I MacBook pro every day to get used of the os. But still turn to my msi at the end of the day. Still feel sorry for my friend who shelled out $2800 to buy this thing. I paid $1,800 for my msi which far better hardware side.


RE: That explains it
By damianrobertjones on 9/15/2011 3:45:39 AM , Rating: 1
There was a time a few years back where Apple was NOT at the top of the list but average in every single way. I would find that chart but it would just end up with someone calling someone a bad name or you finding evidence to invalidate the chart etc. Simply not worth it and life goes on.


RE: That explains it
By TEAMSWITCHER on 9/15/2011 1:45:01 PM , Rating: 2
So instead, you'll just do a quick post about some chart, somewhere, that says Apple was at some point in the past, average. But are they average now? The answer is no.


"Intel is investing heavily (think gazillions of dollars and bazillions of engineering man hours) in resources to create an Intel host controllers spec in order to speed time to market of the USB 3.0 technology." -- Intel blogger Nick Knupffer














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