Print 46 comment(s) - last by Smilin.. on Jul 12 at 3:05 PM

Samsung may pay as much as $10 per Android handset sold to Microsoft, in order to protect itself against Apple.  (Source: Cell Phone Blog)
Licensing fee could give Samsung extra legal ammo against Apple

Microsoft (MSFT) and South Korea's Samsung Electronics (SEO:005930) are reportedly engrossed in intense intellectual property licensing negotiations.  The talks bring to mind the old adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

While Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 platform competes with Android, both platforms share a common enemy -- Apple, Inc. (AAPL).  As Apple tries to fend off Android, it has turned to multiple lawsuits, first suing [1][2] Taiwan's HTC Corp. (TPE:2498) (the top Android phone maker at the time) and then suing Samsung (currently the top Android phone maker).

As both Samsung and HTC are also WP7 handset makers, it behooves Microsoft on multiple levels to defend these quasi-rivals.  To that end, Microsoft entered into a patent licensing agreement with HTC last year.  HTC agreed to give Microsoft a fee for every Android handset sold.  In exchange it received the use of Microsoft's IP, which has proved a useful shield to hold back Apple's legal harassment.

Samsung, which has a sizable IP catalog of its own, may opt for a similar deal.  The current sticking point is the licensing fee.  Microsoft wants $15 USD per Android handset sold.  Samsung, reportedly, is willing to agree to around $10 USD per handset.

If the pair can reach an agreement, Samsung could use its new resources to further defend itself against Apple in court.  That would be good news for U.S. customers, who could lose access to Samsung's Android lineup if Apple succeeds in blocking imports from the Asian gadget maker.

Samsung will soon become the world's largest phone maker, passing Microsoft's Finnish ally, Nokia Oyj. (HEL:NOK1V).  The company is expected by analysts to have sold 3 million units of the Galaxy S II since its late April debut, helping propel the company to total estimated sales of 19 million units in calendar Q2 2011.

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anyone else notice....
By inperfectdarkness on 7/6/2011 11:00:33 AM , Rating: 4
apple isn't aggressively suing LG over smartphones. could this possibly be because prada actually beat the iphone to the market?

RE: anyone else notice....
By themaster08 on 7/6/2011 11:08:05 AM , Rating: 5
I think it's more because Samsung and HTC are much bigger threats to iPhone sales.

RE: anyone else notice....
By macdevdude on 7/6/11, Rating: -1
RE: anyone else notice....
By themaster08 on 7/6/2011 12:12:42 PM , Rating: 4
The iPhone was announced with pictures Jan. 9, while the Prada wasn't until Jan. 18.
From Wikipedia:
It was first announced on December 12, 2006.[2] Images of the device appeared on websites such as Engadget Mobile on December 15, 2006.

The iPhone was the first large, black thin rectangular smart phone with buttons. Apple holds patents on this. Educate yourself.
The iPhone's scree is small compared to the 4.3" screens of many smartphones. Define large.

RE: anyone else notice....
By macdevdude on 7/6/11, Rating: -1
RE: anyone else notice....
By themaster08 on 7/6/2011 12:33:13 PM , Rating: 2
Those weren't official pictures. They were a leak. The iPhone was in development for years and the first round of design patents were filed in mid-2006, well before the LG Prada.
The Prada also won the iF design award in September 2006.

By TakinYourPoints on 7/6/2011 6:35:58 PM , Rating: 2
And Apple started development of the iPhone two weeks later

RE: anyone else notice....
By sigmatau on 7/6/2011 2:00:15 PM , Rating: 4
macdev, you are one flaming idiot. Please go back to engadged and continue your circle jerk there.

RE: anyone else notice....
By aharris02 on 7/6/2011 2:33:13 PM , Rating: 2
the local anti-Apple trolls here

That's basically 90% of DT commenters.

RE: anyone else notice....
By theapparition on 7/6/2011 4:08:02 PM , Rating: 5
Please educate yourself before you speak any more.

Apple does hold a design patent on the look of the iPhone.

Anyone can get a design patent for their product. It does protect the holder from competitors making so similar looking products that the consumers could be deceived.

But requirements for design patents are so low, that they are easily overturned. All it takes is prior art. There are easily 100's of designs that all predate the iPhone and Prada that are black rectangles with screens and buttons. Palm PDA's from the early 2000 come to mind. Plenty of WinMo devices.

Forget your pro Apple crusade. I guarantee that no PI will be issued against Samsung. Your fanboyish tone is as pointless as those who "truely believed" that the iPhone had to desist sales because Cisco owned the iPhone trademark. Please.

This is just Apple posturing itself against the many Samsung lawsuits it has against it. Pretty soon, a settlement will be met which allows them to share IP. That's it.

In fact, the worst thing Apple could do would be to defend it's design patent in court. They'd probably lose.

RE: anyone else notice....
By Fracture on 7/7/2011 10:57:48 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, their patent basically covers the utilitarian definitiion of a smartphone, including color, shape, and placement of buttons.

A similar analogy would be if I were to patent square or rectangular, brown-colored wood tables that have 4 legs on the underside.

Utilitarian objects cannot be patented. Fashion designs cannot be patented. I can't see how this isn't the fashion aspect of a piece of technology.

RE: anyone else notice....
By MrPerez on 7/6/2011 5:32:59 PM , Rating: 1
Those weren't official pictures. They were a leak.

Lol just because they aren't "official" pictures it don't count right?

macdevdude have you noticed your dumb ass comments are all -1 and in the story of Apple getting hacked you wished the hackers would rot in jail lol

Your the biggest fanboi ever i swear, and if you haven't noticed Apple is getting hacked and exploited all over when they said it couldn't happen to them.

btw is your name Jeff?

RE: anyone else notice....
By inighthawki on 7/6/2011 8:02:28 PM , Rating: 2
Personally I find it far more likely he's trolling.

RE: anyone else notice....
By 91TTZ on 7/6/2011 12:17:33 PM , Rating: 2
I've got to be honest here, you don't sound like anything more than an Apple shill. First, your name is "Macdecdude" and all you do is parrot Apple PR.

RE: anyone else notice....
By bug77 on 7/6/2011 12:44:38 PM , Rating: 2
Check this out:

Of course, next you're going to tell me Apple was actually working on iPhone since 10.000BC so anything I may come up with, doesn't really matter. Or that this one is white and all that matters is that Apple invented the black iPhone.

RE: anyone else notice....
By slyck on 7/6/2011 7:44:33 PM , Rating: 2
Braindead much? I'd tell you to educate yourself but a true slobbering Jobs worshipper such as yourself is incapable.

RE: anyone else notice....
By WinProcs on 7/6/2011 11:50:45 PM , Rating: 1
macdevdude said,

"The iPhone was the first large, black thin rectangular smart phone with buttons. Apple holds patents on this. Educate yourself."

What about the O2 XDA2? I had one of these in 2004. It was made by HTC.

Before that they had the original XDA, which was a similar design.

So they didn't have it in black.

Maybe they copied that from apple too.

Who's suing whom?
By melgross on 7/6/11, Rating: 0
RE: Who's suing whom?
By macdevdude on 7/6/11, Rating: -1
RE: Who's suing whom?
By cjohnson2136 on 7/6/2011 1:03:13 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft too

What of Microsoft's looks like iOS, And don't say WP7 cause it looks nothing like iOS.

RE: Who's suing whom?
By Digimonkey on 7/6/2011 1:03:59 PM , Rating: 2
Because screens of icons is such a revolutionary step. WP7 also looks nothing like iOS.

RE: Who's suing whom?
By Mitch101 on 7/6/2011 4:55:16 PM , Rating: 2
Where Apple got the idea for the interface for the iPhone.

RE: Who's suing whom?
By michael2k on 7/7/2011 12:45:33 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, and it got it's inspiration from the original Mac in 1984, which had drawn it's inspiration from the Lisa, which had drawn it's inspiration from the Star.

Don't forget that in the intervening years Apple also had NeXT (which invented the Dock) and Newton (which invented the PDA) to draw on, too.

RE: Who's suing whom?
By Smilin on 7/6/2011 1:14:26 PM , Rating: 4
Exactly, Google has admitted this before. Microsoft too. They're both copying iOS.

It wouldn't surprise me if Apple eventually sues Google and Microsoft for making knockoff operating systems.

iOS is *nix based, steals the interface from Windows 3.1, and the multitouch from the Prada. You realize the entire computing industry copies each other right?

Obviously that would be a big case, so it's probably just taking some time to prepare.

A comedian who hasn't stolen from Richard Prior at some point probably isn't funny.
A mobile phone maker who hasn't licensed or stolen from Motorolla and Nokia probably can't connect to any networks.

Microsoft has been making operating systems for almost 35 years and has filed a bajillion patents (IBM was the only that had more I believe). The reason Apple hasn't sued them is because they would get their butt handed to them in court.

"taking some time to prepare". Oh man that was a good one. I didn't do a true LOL but there was indeed an audible chuckle.

RE: Who's suing whom?
By Tony Swash on 7/6/11, Rating: -1
RE: Who's suing whom?
By Smilin on 7/12/2011 3:05:19 PM , Rating: 1
Tell me about it. Heck it pulls down my average just doing a reply to you.

Tony Swash has posted a total of 969 comments at DailyTech, the average comment rating was 0.63.

RE: Who's suing whom?
By vaelyan on 7/6/2011 7:49:27 PM , Rating: 1
I love it when the iApple fanbois get all upset about people copying stuff from the almighty apple when back in the 70s apple commited the exact same "crime" that all the fanbois are whining about. If Jobs and his boys hadn't taken a tour of Xerox's PARC they wouldn't have had the idea to start working on the Lisa and later the almighty Mac. They're all so quick to point out how similar Android is to iOS although they would probably never admit that Apple has done the exact same thing and that all tech companies do it. Of course the fanbois would have to stop whining long enough to read a bit of history first.

Apple has very few inventions to their credit(that they truely invented, not bought the company that did the inventing), most of what they do is improve upon existing technology. The mouse and GUI weren't originally their ideas, however they do deserve credit for bringing them to the masses. The first computer I ever used with a GUI was a Mac Classic. My favorite computer of all time was my Commodore 64.

Apple is extremely annoying with all their damn lawsuits, however they are mostly just posturing and ways of acquiring patent agreements. I absolutely HATE apple as a company, however I do like their products. The only apple product I own and use is my Apple TV. I admit I'm a PC and don't use OSX at all. Apple products look good and are well made. I don't like iOS anymore since I started using Andriod, I like the ability to customize Android and I like using widgets on my screen.

RE: Who's suing whom?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/6/2011 2:03:28 PM , Rating: 2
Apple sues everyone for everything. Who even cares anymore? Taking them serious at this point is just really hard to do.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to patent triangle shaped white bread and sue any restaurant who serves a club sandwich cut diagonally for royalties.

By wallijonn on 7/6/11, Rating: 0
RE: 19MM?
By bug77 on 7/6/2011 11:27:31 AM , Rating: 2
There are a handful of consoles to choose from. Smartphone models, a bit more. You're comparing apples and oranges here.

RE: 19MM?
By zozzlhandler on 7/6/2011 11:34:23 AM , Rating: 2
Consoles have much thinner margins or are sold at a loss, and make their money from games sales. Smartphone manufacturers make their profits from each handset sale (although the carrier sales of handsets have a very different profit model).

So consoles have a much longer lifetime and need to sell many more to achieve success (by selling many games per console sold).

Smartphone models may change as rapidly as twice per year, and (for the manufacturer) must be sold at a profit. So smartphones will have smaller manufacturing runs than a successful console, but are profitable at smaller runs.

RE: 19MM?
By MrTeal on 7/6/2011 11:37:19 AM , Rating: 3
And if it were a car or a oscilloscope it would be a resounding sales success. What's your point?

Price hike
By Miggleness on 7/6/2011 11:33:48 AM , Rating: 2
and this translates to us consumers paying $35 more for the next samsung android phone we purchase -_-

RE: Price hike
By cjohnson2136 on 7/6/11, Rating: 0
RE: Price hike
By DigitalFreak on 7/6/2011 12:21:16 PM , Rating: 2
I see you enjoy wasting money.

RE: Price hike
By cjohnson2136 on 7/6/2011 12:59:05 PM , Rating: 2
I don't enjoy wasting money at all hence why I don't have a smartphone but my point is 35 is a small amount in huge price of these phones which get subsidized anyway. Chances are 99% of people won't even notice a difference.

By sprockkets on 7/6/2011 11:46:22 AM , Rating: 1
If Android could drop FAT altogether the licensing fee may drop to like $2.

Otherwise a lot of the patents Microsoft holds against others are stupid pointless crap that should never been granted in the first place.

RE: heh
By Digimonkey on 7/6/2011 12:02:05 PM , Rating: 3
You know I've never heard of Microsoft engaging in frivolous lawsuits with anyone. Maybe somehow they keep it under radar, but I've heard quite a few stupid lawsuits come from Apple.

Otherwise a lot of the patents Microsoft holds against others are stupid pointless crap that should never been granted in the first place.

Pretty much describes the majority of computer hardware/software patents.

RE: heh
By ipay on 7/6/2011 8:15:53 PM , Rating: 2
MS didn't used to sue anyone, but I think they saw how much money Apple was making off of it and started a few years ago. They still aren't nearly as bad as Apple, but they sue a lot these days.

By Discount Cell Phones on 7/6/2011 3:47:28 PM , Rating: 1
Apple just needs to realize the Iphone is an inferior product and spend their money to improve their OS and phones instead of suing their competitors. While they are at it maybe considering making things totally open source.

RE: Apple
By kmmatney on 7/6/2011 8:35:13 PM , Rating: 2
And what does this have to do with the article - which is about Microsoft suing people......

RE: Apple
By cjohnson2136 on 7/7/2011 8:23:27 AM , Rating: 2
And what does this have to do with the article - which is about Microsoft suing people

Did you read the article because that's not what it is about. It's about MS getting Samsung to license from them as a way to try and prevent Apple from suing Samsung over design issues.

Good news?
By bug77 on 7/6/2011 11:14:54 AM , Rating: 2
That would be good news for U.S. customers

As I see it, you either risk loosing access to Android handsets, or pay for the funding of WP7. Neither is good news if all I want is a HTC Sensation or a Samsung Galaxy S II.

A sincere FU to Apple.

RE: Good news?
By StevoLincolnite on 7/6/2011 11:24:27 AM , Rating: 2
I wonder if it's a tactic that Microsoft is using to force Samsung in a corner and get them to drop Android in favor of Windows Phone 7?
A $15 licensing fee on every phone is a fair chunk off the profits for Android Manufacturers.
Windows Phone 7 would look like the better option when they could hide away from expensive lawsuits as Microsoft would essentially shield them from it.

All speculative on my behalf of course.

$15 license fee
By ipay on 7/6/2011 8:12:34 PM , Rating: 3
Isn't the license fee for WP7 $15?

Hmm, doesn't that work out nicely for Microsoft.

Buy their OS for $15, or use Android and still pay them $15 per phone.

The 21st century business model in a nutshell.

Why does everyone give a sh!te?
By petrosy on 7/6/2011 7:40:21 PM , Rating: 2
... I wish there was more "copying" of ideas. The more competition the better the end result for me.

Andriod is not gaining ground because of copying iOS, they gaining ground because of a better all round product / eco-system.

Google has not really played the suing game... they have just up their game. Maybe crApple should try innovate again as that is what got them where they are... suing will not keep them there.

So why while you all stick to your camps... I say why bother do you really want to live in such a sterile tech world?

The only reason I can see peole feverishly defending one or the other is because no one wants to admit they bought into the wrong side which ever side that may be. So stop being drones and let the tech companies wow us with the best hardware, software, service and what ever else they can to get my hard earned dollars!

"Well, there may be a reason why they call them 'Mac' trucks! Windows machines will not be trucks." -- Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer

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