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  (Source: Jamie Lipman/Inside Line)

Porsche 911 designers have the easiest job in the world. A nip here, a tuck there and "boom", new 911. Pictured above is a prototype 991 911  (Source: Jamie Lipman/Inside Line)

The new 911's interior takes styling cues from the Panamera  (Source: Jamie Lipman/Inside Line)
Porsche's 911 will get a major overhaul for 2012

We reported earlier this week that Porsche is looking to add what is essentially "cruise control on steroids" to its future vehicles. The Porsche ACC InnoDrive system will take full control of throttle inputs and "learn" the routes that the driver regularly travels. Only the steering will be left for the driver to control when the system is enabled.

Now, we're getting some more information on the most famous member of the Porsche family: the 911. The next generation model will be revealed before the end of this year, with production models going to North American customers next year.

The new 911, codenamed 991, is growing in length again. The 911 will sit on a 4-inch longer wheelbase, while overall length grows another 2.2 inches. Compared to the last air-cooled 911, the iconic 993, the new 911 is roughly 10 inches longer with a 7-inch longer wheelbase.

Despite the expanded dimensions, the new 911 will be lighter than outgoing 997 variant. Instead of relying primarily on steel for the construction of the vehicle, the majority of the vehicle will now be constructed of aluminum with high-strength steel being deployed used for "major crash paths" according to Inside Line.

The extended wheelbase will also leave more legroom for the two rear-seat passengers (in reality, kids only) and for an optional hybrid system that should be available for the 2016 model year refresh of the 991 platform.

The hybrid system isn't the only concession being made to improve fuel efficiency for the 911; Porsche has also done the unthinkable and ditched the 911's wonderful hydraulic steering system for an electric one. Porsche 911 project manager Roland Achleitner explains that the excellent steering feel will remain and that "you would not be able to tell it is electric." Another buzzkill is that Porsche is moving to an electronic parking brake for the new car. 

When it comes to powertrains, the new 911 Carrera will share a 3.4-liter flat-6 engine with the Boxster S that produces 350hp. The Carrera S will be blessed with a larger displacement flat-6 producing roughly 400hp. Power will be delivered to the rear wheels (or all four wheels in Carrera 4 guise) using a 7-speed dual-clutch (PDK) transmission or -- wait for it -- a 7-speed manual transmission.

Overall efficiency is said to improve by 12 to 15 percent over the outgoing model.

For more information on the next Porsche 911 and the development of the car, you can check out Inside Line's write-up. They actually got some passenger-seat time with a prototype of the vehicle.



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I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By aguilpa1 on 7/1/2011 10:22:18 AM , Rating: 2
Like driving a tiny big rig, seems like to many shift points.




RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By MrBungle123 on 7/1/2011 10:46:12 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, I recently changed vehicles going from a 5 to a 6 speed manual, and at times 6 almost feels like too many gears... (i skip them half the time) 7 would just be irritating.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By GulWestfale on 7/1/2011 10:55:46 AM , Rating: 5
change gear
change gear
change gear
check your mirrors
murder a prostitute
change gear

it's hard work.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By quiksilvr on 7/1/11, Rating: -1
RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By RussianSensation on 7/1/11, Rating: 0
RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By theapparition on 7/1/2011 2:14:46 PM , Rating: 1
Beauty is all in the eye of the beholder. I though Porshes looked dated in the 80's. Now they look downright ancient.

That's my opinion, and one that I've made with my wallet. I'll keep my Corvettes.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By RussianSensation on 7/2/2011 1:16:01 AM , Rating: 1
You can't drive a Corvette in the Winter. A 911 with all wheel drive will mop the floor with a Vette in the rain too. So for most people, a Vette is only a summer / weekend car. And interior quality of the Corvette is atrocious. When I am spending $100k+ on a sports car, it better not have a steering wheel from a Malibu.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By theapparition on 7/2/2011 1:48:07 PM , Rating: 2
What?

I drive my Corvettes all winter long. That's including a C5 with over 1000hp, a C6 Z06 with over 800hp and a ZR1. The wife drives her Corvettes in winter too. Oh nooos, there goes your argument.

As for value, you can buy a C6 Z06 with similar performance to many 100k+ Porsches and get another car or truck to use. So forget that argument, if it was even true. And how many people are taking thier 100k car out in snow. Please.

I don't care what car you like. I expressed my opinion that I don't particuarly care for the look of Porsches.

The C6 steering wheel is not from a Malibu either.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By GulWestfale on 7/2/2011 5:56:32 PM , Rating: 2
as a german living in canada, i think i can offer a unique viewpoint on the porsche vs vette debate:

- i do think that porsches do have far better build quality; from the gaps between the body panels to the quality of interior materials (which many reviewers say is about comparable to a korean subcompact in a corvette), the porsche is simply better.

- porsches are more efficient, the latest GT3 RS 4.0 makes 500hp from a 4 liter flat-6; a corvette needs a 7 liter V8 to achieve the same power. torque is of course another matter, there the vette's modified truck engines wins. but because of the smaller, more fuel-efficient engines used in porsches, they can have 'real' manual gearboxes instead of a 'skip=shift' box like the vette uses to lower GM's CAFE average.

- the vette still uses leaf springs (!) in its rear suspension. holy crap.

- in canada, a current base vette with a 430hp engine costs just under 70k, and is pretty well equipped.
a 911 with only 345hp and pitiful equipment (a rear window wiper costs $500 extra, wtf) sets you back 90k.
if both cars cost the same, and i had to buy one with my own money, i'd take the porsche. but with a 20k price difference, and spending my own cash, i, as a german, have to admit that i'd take the vette. 430hp>345hp, bodypanel gaps be damned. and who cares about what it looks like in 10 years, people who can afford to buy these cars new will already be on their next one in 5 years, never mind 10.

then again, a used 2005 911 turbo can be had for 70k on ebay... :)

to each his own, i guess. we are lucky that in this age of nanny states and tree-hugging hippies we can still have a debate about two very different, yet amazing cars.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/2/2011 8:43:58 PM , Rating: 1
Seems like you can't help yourself from making disparaging, and off base, comments about the 'Vette. The block in the Corvette started out with the same displacement as the "truck engine", but it's certainly not a modified truck engine. The Chevrolet small block has been used in dozens of vehicles for decades. It's the most successful V8 small block design ever made. The Corvette engine has so many high end components and mods that it can hardly even be compared to a "truck engine".

quote:
- porsches are more efficient


Efficiency is a poor argument to make when comparing such ridiculously excessive vehicles who's point is to go fast.

quote:
- porsches are more efficient, the latest GT3 RS 4.0 makes 500hp from a 4 liter flat-6; a corvette needs a 7 liter V8 to achieve the same power.


Umm why are you comparing the Z06 to a GT3 RS 4.0? Seems to me we should be debating the 911 Turbo to the Corvette ZR1.

quote:
torque is of course another matter,


This is why comparing the two engines in terms of "efficiency" can get wonky. The Z06 gives you max torque at only 4800 RPM, and max horsepower at only 6300 RPM. That's the beauty, and attraction, of the big ole V8.

quote:
- the vette still uses leaf springs (!) in its rear suspension. holy crap.


First off, the Vette's track times are on par with some of the best sports cars in the world. You can't do that without great handling.

Secondly the use of leaf springs in the Corvette is not to be confused with leaf spring suspensions used in trucks and older cars; they are two completely different things. The Corvettes transverse leaf springs serve the same purpose as coil springs in other vehicles, but they are lighter, allow for the vehicles mass to be closer to the ground, and allow for lighter anti-roll bars since they can assume some of that duty.

When you have that much neckbreaking power and torque to the real wheels, traditional independent coilover setups just WON'T cut it.

Obviously Chevrolet could have gone a LOT further with the Corvette, but then you would have to go a lot further with your wallet. Even spending upwards of $120k, there's really nothing out there for that money that beats the ZR1 soundly.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By shiftypy on 7/13/2011 8:57:34 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Even spending upwards of $120k, there's really nothing out there for that money that beats the ZR1 soundly.
I will have to mention Nissan GT-R here
Under $100K. Superior to both 911 and Vette. Filled with technology and not relying on outlandish horsepower alone to be fast.


By theapparition on 7/4/2011 10:54:36 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
porsches are more efficient

Here we go with that same old stupid "efficiency" argument. Does Hp/liter get you something? Nope. BTW, which car gets better mpg, you know, real efficiency.

quote:
the vette still uses leaf springs (!) in its rear suspension. holy crap.

Yep....so does the ZR1, which still holds the record at the Nurburgring for true production car on street tires, driven to that record by a GM engineer, not a professional.

I love fancy new technology, but if older tech works better, then why argue with results? Lots of older tech in the vettes that still perform better than high tech cars. If you want a badge that says Vtech or something, then get an Honda. But if you want reliable tech that still outperforms the fancy stuff, you'll know where to find me.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Noya on 7/3/2011 2:02:13 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
C6 Z06 with similar performance to many 100k+ Porsches and get another car or truck to use.


Sorry, but the current Porsche Turbo S destroys everything (ZR1 included) but a Bugatti Veyron in acceleration while matching just about anything else in braking, handling, etc.

Bingo! That's who GM aims at with the Corvette, the value conscious shopper who would prefer two lower-quality cars than paying for as single more premium product. Someone that will go on and on about the numbers a C6 will produce, while never admitting to its kit-car build quality and the fact that they will never, ever take it to an open track day and actually experience the thrills the car can give thanks to the numbers it produces.


By Reclaimer77 on 7/3/2011 3:10:02 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Sorry, but the current Porsche Turbo S destroys everything (ZR1 included)


Yeah for only $60k more. Also please define "destroys". Post a link. Because every comparison I can find shows the ZR1 beating it or coming out pretty much even, despite the Porsche whoring all wheel drive and a double-clutch PDK tranny with launch control, stability control, and whatever other electronic crap they needed to throw in to make the car drivable.

Why is it so hard for people to accept the 'Vette as a legitimate sports car?

quote:
Someone that will go on and on about the numbers a C6 will produce, while never admitting to its kit-car build quality and the fact that they will never, bla bla bla


I guess it's just impossible that some people might prefer a Corvette to a Porsche? Nah, hell, everyone should just buy a Porsche I guess. Screw every OTHER car out there.

quote:
ever take it to an open track day and actually experience the thrills the car can give thanks to the numbers it produces.


What are you even on about? Yeah I'm so sure everyone takes their $160k+ 911 Turbo's out on the track too. Riiiight.

Porsche's are great cars. But it's silly that you have to get nasty and condescending to someone who prefers a different sports car.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By RussianSensation on 7/3/2011 3:07:32 AM , Rating: 2
I think you got confused by my comment. Sure, you can buy winter tires and technically drive a Corvette in the winter but then you have none of the performance of the Corvette. In fact, a stock Audi A4 2.0T with quattro all-wheel drive will leave your Corvette for dead during December-March winter months the minute the road gets snow on it. You also probably have to throw 2-3 large salt bags in the back just to get traction. And good luck driving that Vette in the winter if you are in a hilly area.

The whole point of a 911 is that people do drive them all-year round. So I don't understand your argument about getting a Corvette and a Truck when you can just get a 911 and use it all year around.

But you are missing some other important factors:

1) Vette has horrible/cheap interior materials and seats
2) Vette has none of the comfort/German feel on the highway that the planted 911 has
3) Vette has none of the prestige of the 911 (unless you live in "Corvette" patriotic states likes Ohio, Michigan, etc.)
4) Vette has inferior steering feel to the 911
5) While it may lay down great times at the Nurbugring in the hands of a professional driver, the Vette is a handful to drive at the limit in real life. In other words, in the hands of an average driver, you'd kill yourself in a Vette on a track if you pushed it hard and would never be able to match the times of the modern sophisticated cars like the 911 or the GTR.
6) You buy a Vette because all you care about is 1/4 mile times. A 911 buyer wants a certain level of comfort and luxury as well. At the end of the day the Vette just feels like a cheap car that can go very fast but lacks the refinement found in competing vehicles like the 911, R8, GTR.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/3/11, Rating: 0
RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Lord 666 on 7/3/2011 4:30:24 PM , Rating: 2
Reclaimer,

I know you live in Canada and have a distant view of our country. In certain areas of the US, people DO drive their 911s and now Panameras as daily drivers. I live in one of those areas. Just today saw a guy with his son at Toys R Us load the front of his Turbo Convertible in the pouring rain. There are quite a few older ladies driving Panameras to the store. There are even two guys with Carrera GTs; a silver and red one. Sort of helps there is a Porsched/Audi dealer within 3 miles, but by far the most popular luxury brand in the area is MB; 550 4matics and GL450s everywhere. Even one SLS.


By Reclaimer77 on 7/3/2011 7:16:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I know you live in Canada and have a distant view of our country.


What? No I don't. I was born and raised in America. I'm just saying most people who can afford $100k+ cars don't drive them every day. For one, they are impractical, and you can easily afford a more practical car.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Manch on 7/3/2011 10:37:27 PM , Rating: 1
I can see stereotyping a mustang/camaro/GTO'so slows as drag racers but a vette guy? Most I know they will hit the drag strip occasionally, play on the highway(of course), but mainly they go to the road courses.


By Reclaimer77 on 7/3/2011 11:36:32 PM , Rating: 1
I just love how he stereotypes the 'Vette as some drag racing car, when it beats pretty much every Porsche in the skidpad and through the slalom without the benefit of all wheel drive. Hell the Nissan GT-R with it's vaunted AWD from God setup can't even pull 1g on the 'pad.


By theapparition on 7/4/2011 10:48:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
While it may lay down great times at the Nurbugring in the hands of a professional driver, the Vette is a handful to drive at the limit in real life. In other words, in the hands of an average driver, you'd kill yourself in a Vette on a track if you pushed it hard and would never be able to match the times of the modern sophisticated cars like the 911 or the GTR.

I've driven almost every sports car that can be imported into the US. I race Corvettes as a hobby. So I can instantly tell that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and most likely last was a passenger in a 1990 C4.

Technically, Porsches are very nice cars. I've never argued against that. I just indicated that I don't like thier decades old styling. But Corvettes are very much on par with everything that Porsche offers. To infer otherwise, just shows your ignorance. OK, I'll give you interiors.

But for your information, while Porsche pumps tons of money into Nurburgring times, GM brought over a ZR1.....once.....and it was piloted by an engineer.....not a professional. Sad thing is, it still destroyed any current Porsche's times.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Noya on 7/2/2011 4:12:45 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
I though Porshes looked dated in the 80's. Now they look downright ancient. That's my opinion, and one that I've made with my wallet. I'll keep my Corvettes.


Are you kidding me? An 80's 911 still looks astute, pert and capable. C3 and C4 Corvettes look like the jalopy's they are. The 930, 964 and 993 are timeless cars...and no doubt built better than contemporary Porsche models.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By voodoochile123 on 7/4/2011 9:05:40 PM , Rating: 1
LMAO Corvettes. Yeah ok knight rider, you keep your vettes and I'll have the far more agile far more high tech, far better built, and far more drivable 911.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By theapparition on 7/4/2011 10:57:59 PM , Rating: 2
Knight Rider was a Pontiac Firebird TransAm there genius.

And since I actually race my cars, I'm sure your just another kid talking out his azz looking at old Top Gear episodes on YouTube.

Keep your high tech, I'll keep the finish line. BTW, who won it's class at LeMons this year? Thanks for playing.


By voodoochile123 on 11/24/2011 3:34:29 AM , Rating: 2
Lemons? Like lemonade? I don't see what Le Mans has to do with this anyway, we are talking about production cars.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By ottawanker on 7/1/2011 7:55:39 PM , Rating: 2
I can, its called the Cayman. The Boxster/Cayman are actually faster around a track with the same HP as the 911.

In fact, I was watching the 24 hours of Le Mans and the commentators were saying that the 911 is no longer competitive in the GT class and that they need to bring out the Boxster to start winning again.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By topkill on 7/1/2011 8:31:37 PM , Rating: 2
AMEN! Porsche just can not get over the fact that the Cayman/Boxster layout is better balanced for the track.

They refuse to give the Cayman the same engine options as the 911 to protect their flagship baby...and it will eventually catch up with them as they start to lose more and more at the track.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/1/11, Rating: 0
RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By topkill on 7/2/2011 9:57:35 AM , Rating: 2
I have to admit that I've always been a 911 fan. But I got to be good friends with Dan Panoz who beat their ass at Le Mans back in 2006.

He said that Porsche immediately went into politicking mode and started complaining that Panoz had this advantage or that advantage and should be restricted with fuel tank size, etc. He got pissed and told them to quit whining and put their best engines in the Cayman if they wanted to compete. They admitted to Dan privately that they could get better performance from the Cayman but the 911 was their flagship and they would not do it.

I knew then that as much as I love the 911, that the Cayman would one day become their primary racing platform....the question is: when??? Germans can be INCREDIBLY stubborn so it may be a long time. The 458 and the Vette's may have to kick their ass for a few years before they make the switch.


By RussianSensation on 7/2/2011 1:19:28 AM , Rating: 2
Who said anything about track performance? You can't get the Cayman or the Boxster with all-wheel drive. So how are you disproving my claim if the vehicles you mentioned don't do so well in the snow or the rain?

Also, if you wanted an all around track car, you'd get a Lotus Exige or the Nissan GTR anyway. So no a Cayman or the Boxster are not better than a 911. Besides, if you want a 911 for a track, they have one for you: GT3 RS 4.0


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By BZDTemp on 7/2/2011 9:12:04 AM , Rating: 1
I heard those commentators and I disagree. Her is why.

1. Yes, no Porsche winner this year but last year Porsches took first and third in their class (GT2) and the winning Porsche was 7 laps ahead of the fastest GT1 car (that's like 28 miniutes).
2. The leading Porsche came in fourth in class this year two laps behind the class leader. However two of the cars ahead were factory entries and the third team( AF Corse) is pretty much an unofficial Ferrari/Maserati team. Team Felbermayr-Proton with the Porsche is just one of many teams that work with Porsche and there was no factory Porsche team at Le Mans.
3. Porsche won the ALMS championship in the GT class in 2009 and 2010.
4. Porsche has 3 (or is it 4) class wins in Grand-Am this year and the engine MFR competition is almost tied at this time (Chevy 213 pts, Porsche 212 pts, Mazda 210 pts)

It's not like Porsche wins everything but saying they are no longer competitive is simply wrong. Some years there is a new car that blows past all others and all in all who is winning fluctuates. This year it looks like the brand new BMW is a hot item and so is the 458 (if somewhat unstable) and Corvette seems to finally have their but Porsche 911's are still going strong even if the 911(997) is a few years old by now. To me it looks like the new 911 as described in the article in this place is gonna be a new winner (although I prefer the look of the 997).


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By FITCamaro on 7/1/2011 12:42:37 PM , Rating: 2
Lazy lazy lazy.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By RussianSensation on 7/1/2011 2:04:37 PM , Rating: 2
The whole point of a 911 is to look like a 911. It's instantly recognizable around the world. This design isn't for everyone. But once you drive a 911, you will most likely forget about the styling and focus on the driving :)


By FITCamaro on 7/2/2011 2:58:20 PM , Rating: 2
What the hell does that have to do with someone being too lazy to shift gears.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Strunf on 7/1/2011 12:49:24 PM , Rating: 2
My Golf 4 only has 5 and I sure miss a 6, if you go over 100km/h a 6 gear is needed.
A 7 gear makes sense if you drive in Germany where there isn't a speed limit!


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Philippine Mango on 7/1/2011 6:53:12 PM , Rating: 2
What you're really trying to say but you don't realize it but your 5th gear is 'too short' meaning that the engine revs high at only 62mph. That's intentional so that lazy drivers don't have to downshift to accelerate quickly. If they added another gear to your car, the sixth gear would be the equivalent of your current 5th gear and they'd just have more gear ratios in between. This is an issue of automakers making the cars 'peppy' in top gear opposed to not having enough gears.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Samus on 7/17/2011 4:36:54 PM , Rating: 1
We totally need more wide-ration transmissions. The close-ration 6-speed in the Civic R, Mini Cooper, and even the Mustang GT, are all ridiculous to drive with around town. The only benifit is the 1-2 upshift leaves your rev's higher, resulting in a faster 0-60, but if you were concerned with a 0-60, you wouldn't have a manual transmission.

An automatic will always shift faster than a manual, which is why nearly every strip car has an automatic, perhaps with a manual throttle body, but the guts are a clutchless automatic.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By FITCamaro on 7/2/2011 3:05:35 PM , Rating: 2
You need 6 gears to go over 60ish mph?


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Murloc on 7/3/2011 5:59:25 AM , Rating: 2
you don't, but if you're driving a random smallish car at 120 km/h, the fact that you don't have a sixth gear sucks, because you waste petrol and it makes a whiny noise when it could be totally silent with a sixth gear.
The guy above said that they'd just make all the gear shorter, I don't know about that, but by "need a 6th gear" people means that they need a real 6th gear without modifying the others.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By shiftypy on 7/13/2011 9:03:54 AM , Rating: 2
It is a curse for all modern cars, top gear too short for efficient highway cruise

Where is the sense in this? Say this 911. Excellent engine with great dynamics throuhgout rev range and they stick 7 speeds on it, probably chopped into tiny intervals. 5 gears with tall intervals would be enough! And no less efficient.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By IvanAndreevich on 7/3/2011 12:19:00 PM , Rating: 2
Not really. I have a 5 speed, and I often miss having a longer 6th gear just for cruising at high speed. With this guy you, can go 1-2-3-4 and then you are at speed limit where you just pop it into 7th and cruise at low RPM's and high MPG's.


By Lazarus Dark on 7/3/2011 5:31:41 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I have the 6 speed manual on the Dodge Challenger. I don't know how the Porche manual will be but these tremec's are basically 4 speed manual with two overdrives. I only use fifth on the interstate around town, and only use 6th on road trips. In 6th gear I can get 28-29 mpg on the highway which is much appreciated given gas prices. I've taken 4th to 132mph where it tops out, didn't have enough room to shift to fifth but I understand it goes to around 160, at which point I'd need to put hood latches on anyway.

I doubt this 7th gear will get much use in high speed driving, it's probably just a gas saving gear (but thats still a good thing to have)


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By dubldwn on 7/1/2011 10:48:10 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah I'm curious how that's gonna work. I guess low rpm cruise at 140 will be nice. Also,
quote:
Another buzzkill is that Porsche is moving to an e-brake for the new car.

what does that mean? Porsche's had no e-brake?


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By amanojaku on 7/1/2011 11:19:15 AM , Rating: 2
I think they mean electronically controlled brake, not emergency brake.

As to the gears, more gears means more shifts, but it can also mean better fuel economy. A good gearbox for this type of car is usually:

1 - 0-62mph (a single gear yields the fastest start time)
2 - 63-90mph
3 - 91-120mph
4 - 121-140mph
5 - 141-160mph
6 - 156-175mph
7 - 176-190mph

Most people will only hit 3rd.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By mcnabney on 7/1/2011 11:29:08 AM , Rating: 1
That isn't really how gears work.

I am curious what the gear ratios are. How many OD gears are there? I mean, it is only 350-400hp between the two models. Not exactly an astounding amount of power. The Corvette Z06 produces over 500hp and ZR1 goes well over 600hp. They do just fine with six gears. I am suspecting they are just 'manualizing' their automatic transmission. Having seven gears doesn't mean you won't row through five while driving in traffic.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By amanojaku on 7/1/2011 11:53:06 AM , Rating: 2
Where did I ever explain how gears work? I just listed gears with a range of speeds that are higher than the previous gear's. What I left out is why I choose this arrangement, because I figure people already know or don't care.

But if it helps... It has to do with torque.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By theapparition on 7/1/2011 2:12:18 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
But if it helps... It has to do with torque.

I'm sorry, but your example is untennable.

Depending on the gear arrangment, a minimum of two gears will problably be overdrives. Overdrives work by LOWERING torque at the wheels, because thier gear ratio is lower than 1:1 (technically, the final drive ratio needs to be factored in as well).

Current 6 speed sports cars top speed is accomplished in 5th gear. 6th gear may be able to reach higher speeds on a gear calculator chart, but in real life can't accomplish it for two reasons. One is that the lower torque output to the wheels is quickly overcome by aerodymanic drag at high speeds, and second that typical 6th gear ratios can't handle the stress. Anyone that has done any racing will never touch 6th gear.

5th is usually an overdrive as well, but close enough that it doesn't drastically lose the torque that 6th does. 6th is only there for highway fuel economy, not top speed.

Without more details, who knows? But I doubt Porshe will do anything but add two or even three overdrives, which will pretty much make 6th and 7th worthless for top speed. Gear ratio calculators don't equal real life examples.


By amanojaku on 7/1/2011 3:40:06 PM , Rating: 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZhudM0DSAY

I quoted 190mph. I believe the example shows 215mph. Why is my example (which does not include actual ratios, mind you) untenable? I never said people were going to push 190mph, or any speed. I HAVE heard if deaths in street racing accidents over 100mph. These cars can do 60mph in 3.5 seconds, don't count out their ability to accelerate. That's what happens when you have a transmission with a lot of gears: you're always at peak power.

Oh, yeah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Gmcvhl5lU


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Noya on 7/2/2011 4:21:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
But I doubt Porshe will do anything but add two or even three overdrives, which will pretty much make 6th and 7th worthless for top speed. Gear ratio calculators don't equal real life examples.


Are you kidding me? 7-spds allow tighter gearing in 1-6 for quicker acceleration all the way to top speed, while 7th is for high speed interstate cruising.

You're thinking of the Camaro, Mustangs and certain Corvette models that will only top in 5th due to the necessity of the super tall 6th gear to achieve decent mileage figures.


By beerhound on 7/2/2011 11:44:01 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly right! I have a Formula Firebird with the 6 speed. Don't remember first through third, but fourth is a straight 1 to 1, fifth is 1.25 to 1 and sixth is 1.5 to 1.

The top speed of the car was 151 in fifth gear. It would only get to 140 in sixth, the engine didn't have enough torque to spin to redline against that 1.5 to 1 ratio. That from a motor whose torque curve was so flat that it made at least 300 ft/lbs from 2000 rpm through the 5800 rpm redline

On the other hand, I was turning just 1500 rpm @65 mph. I had to get up to 88 mph just to see 2000 on the tach. (insert time travel joke here) Made for some excellent mileage for a 350 ci iron block, push-rod V8. I routinely got 28~29 mpg on highway trips and got above 30mpg quite a few times. (best being 32.5)

I know American cars aren't generally as sophisticated as European ones, but I think I got a hell of a bargain out of mine. How many mid 90s era cars can top 150, do 0 to 60 in 5.0 sec, the 1/4 mile in the high 13s and corner at better than .9 g? All for an out the door price of $19474. I drove it home in Feb of 94 and I've just started shopping for it's replacement.


By theapparition on 7/2/2011 1:56:39 PM , Rating: 2
Huh?

You just made my arguement. 7th will not be for top speed. It will be supertall, for exactly the same reasons as you mentioned.

That was my original assesment that's the OP's mpg vs gear range example was unrealistic in a production car.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Stuka on 7/1/2011 12:34:30 PM , Rating: 3
That is actually how gears work. The ratios are established to provide a usable ground speed range at an optimum engine speed range. It works the same both ways (2+3=5=3+2).

Most cars I've driven have been optimized to allow cruising at most speed limits in a particular gear without the engine getting much over 3000RPM. My German 6spd has broken the mold slightly, as 1st is only good til 10mph, 2nd to 20, etc. This puts me in one higher gear for each cruising speed mark from before. 6th is still better off at 60 than the 5spd would be. Unfortunately, it still means my turbo is spooling at 65 on the freeway. As such, I would suspect the Porsche design here is simply to add a super-cruise gear on top.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By soydios on 7/1/2011 1:28:47 PM , Rating: 1
1st gear doesn't go to 60mph...


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By theapparition on 7/1/2011 2:19:19 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, no kidding. You want a gear that gets you to 60mph, you better be prepared for 15sec 0-60 times.

Would be a complete dog.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/1/2011 3:51:47 PM , Rating: 2
Nah you could do it if you had insane Corvette ZR1 levels of torque and HP. I don't think this Porsche is going to have anything like the gear ratios hes describing.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By theapparition on 7/2/2011 4:39:33 PM , Rating: 2
Ahem.....I have a ZR1.

1st gear does make it to 60mph, just barely if you run it up to redline, 6500rpm.

1st gear is 1:2.29 and rear end is 3.42. At 6500rpm, the rear wheels are turning 830rpm. Tires are 345/25/zr20 with a circumferance of 84.16". That gives a theoretical top in 1st gear of 66mph. But torque and power starts falling off before that, so it doesn't fully pull that hard past 60. You get best 0-60 performance with a quick shift.


By Reclaimer77 on 7/3/2011 3:37:01 AM , Rating: 2
I said "could" do it. I didn't say you should :)


By amanojaku on 7/1/2011 2:45:04 PM , Rating: 3
Why not? It's possible.

Corvette ZR1
Ferrari F40
Ferrari F50
Ford GT 2005
Lamborghini Diablo
Porsche 959

The list is much longer.


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 7/1/2011 1:32:33 PM , Rating: 2
Electronic parking brake. Instead of a hand lever that you pull up, there's a button you press to engage the emergency brake.


RE: I like manuals but 7 speed ?
By BZDTemp on 7/2/11, Rating: 0
"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." -- Bill Gates














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